Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach
Following up on the excellent initiative of Dr. Judith Curry (see Judith’s post and my response ), I would like to see what I can do to rebuild the justifiably lost trust in climate science. I want to bring some clarity to terms which are used all the time but which don’t seem to have an agreed upon meaning. In the process, I want to detail my own beliefs about the climate and how it works.
Figure 1. Dr Judith Curry tries to warn the greenhouse warming scientists … from Cartoons By Josh.
I don’t know about you, but I’m weary of the vague statements that characterise many of the discussions about climate change. These range from the subtle to the ridiculous. An example would be “I believe in climate change”. Given that the climate has been changing since there has been climate, what does that mean?
We also hear that there is a “consensus” … but when you ask for the actual content of the consensus, what exactly are the shared beliefs, a great silence ensues.
Often we see people being called unpleasant terms like “deniers”, with the ugly overtones of “Holocaust deniers”. I’ve been called that myself many times … but what is it that I am being accused of denying?
In an attempt to cut through the mashed potatoes and get to the meat, let me explain in question and answer format what I believe, and provide some citations for my claims. (These are only indicative citations from among many I could provide on each topic.) I will also indicate how much scientific agreement I think there is on the questions. First, some introductory questions.
Preface Question 1. Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?
I bring this up to get rid of the canard that people who don’t believe the “consensus science” on global warming are evil people who don’t care about the planet. I am a passionate environmentalist, and I have been so since 1962 when I first read Silent Spring upon its publication. I believe that we have an obligation to respect the natural ecosystems that we live among. My reasons are simple. First, we have a responsibility to be good guests and good stewards here on this amazing planet. Second, I worked extensively in my life as a commercial fisherman, and I would like for my grandchildren to have the same opportunity. The only way to do this is to monitor and be careful with our effects on the earth and the biosphere.
Preface Question 2. What single word would you choose to describe your position on climate science?
Heretic. I am neither an anthopogenic global warming (AGW) supporter nor a skeptic, I believe the entire current climate paradigm is incorrect.
Question 1. Does the earth have a preferred temperature which is actively maintained by the climate system?
To me this is the question that we should answer first. I believe that the answer is yes. Despite millennia-long volcanic eruptions, despite being struck by monstrous asteroids, despite changes in the position of the continents, as near as we can tell the average temperature of the earth has only varied by about plus or minus three percent in the last half-billion years. Over the last ten thousand years, the temperature has only varied by plus or minus one percent. Over the last 150 years, the average temperature has only varied by plus or minus 0.3%. For a system as complex and ever-changing as the climate, this is nothing short of astounding.
Before asking any other questions about the climate, we must ask why the climate has been so stable. Until we answer that question, trying to calculate the climate sensitivity is an exercise in futility.
I have explained in “The Thermostat Hypothesis” what I think is the mechanism responsible for this unexplained stability. My explanation may be wrong, but there must be some mechanism which has kept the global temperature within plus or minus 1% for ten thousand years.
I am, however, definitely in the minority with this opinion.
Question 2. Regarding human effects on climate, what is the null hypothesis?
If we are trying to see if humans have affected the climate, the null hypothesis has to be that any changes in the climate (e.g. changes in temperature, rainfall, snow extent, sea ice coverage, drought occurrence and severity) are due to natural variations.
Question 3. What observations tend to support or reject the null hypothesis?
As I show in “Congenital Climate Abnormalities”, not only are there no “fingerprints” of human effects in the records, but I find nothing that is in any way unusual or anomalous. Yes, the earth’s temperature is changing slightly … but that has been true since the earth has had a temperature.
There is no indication that the recent warming is any different from past warmings. There is more and more evidence that the Medieval Warm period was widespread, and that it was warmer than the present. The Greenland ice cores show that we are at the cold end of the Holocene (the current inter-glacial period). There have been no significant changes in rainfall, floods, sea level rise, Arctic temperatures, or other indicators.
In short, I find no climate metrics that show anything which is anomalous or outside of historical natural variations. In the absence of such evidence, we cannot reject the null hypothesis.
Question 4. Is the globe warming?
This is a trick question. It is a perfect example of a frequently asked question which is totally meaningless. It shows up all the time on public opinion polls, but it is devoid of meaning. To make it meaningful, it needs to have a time period attached to it. Here are some examples of my views on the question:
1 During the last century, the earth warmed slightly (less than 1°C).
2 The earth has generally cooled over the last 12,000 years. We are currently at the cold end of the Holocene (the period since the end of the last Ice Age. See the Greenland and Vostok ice records.
3 The earth has generally warmed since the depths of the Little Ice Age around 1650, at a rate somewhere around a half a degree Celsius per century. See Akasufo, the Central England Temperature (CET), and the Armagh records.
4 The largest warming in any instrumental record occurred around 1680 – 1730. See the CET and Armagh records.
5 The earth was either stable or cooled slightly from about 1945 to 1975.
6 The earth warmed slightly from about 1975 to 1998.
7 There has been no significant warming from 1995 to the present (Feb. 2010). See The Reference Frame, Phil Jones.
I would say that there is widespread scientific agreement on the existence of these general trends. The amount of the warming, however, is far less certain. There is current controversy about both the accuracy of the adjustments to the temperature measurements and the strength of local effects (UHI, poor station siting, warmth from irrigation, etc.). See e.g. McKitrick, Spencer, Christy and Norris, Ladochy et al.., Watts, SurfaceStations, and Jones on these questions.
Question 5. Are humans responsible for global warming?
This is another trick question that often shows up on polls. The question suffers from two problems. First is the lack of a time period discussed above. The second is the question of the amount of responsibility. Generally, the period under discussion is the post-1900 warming. So let me rephrase the question as “Are humans responsible for some part of the late 20th century warming?”
To this question I would say “Yes”. Again, there is widespread scientific agreement on that simplistic question, but as usual, the devil is in the details discussed in Question 4.
Question 6. If the answer to Question 5 is “Yes”, how are humans affecting the climate?
I think that humans affect the climate in two main ways. The first is changes in land use/land cover, or what is called “LU/LC”. I believe that when you cut down a forest, you cut down the clouds. This mechanism has been implicated in e.g. the decline in the Kilimanjaro Glacier. When you introduce widespread irrigation, the additional water vapor both warms and moderates the climate. When you pave a parking lot, local temperatures rise. See e.g. Christie and Norris, Fall et al., Kilimanjaro.
The second main way humans affect climate is through soot, which I will broadly define as black and brown carbon. Black carbon comes mostly from burning of fossil fuels, while brown carbon comes mostly from the burning of biofuels. This affects the climate in two ways. In the air, the soot absorbs incoming solar radiation, and prevents it from striking the ground. This reduces the local temperature. In addition, when soot settles out on ice and snow, it accelerates the melting of the ice and snow. This increases the local temperature by reducing the surface albedo. See e.g. Jacobson.
There is little scientific agreement on this question. A number of scientists implicate greenhouse gases as the largest contributor. Other scientists say that LU/LC is the major mover. The IPCC places values on these and other so-called “forcings”, but it admits that our scientific understanding of many of forcings is “low”.
Question 7. How much of the post 1980 temperature change is due to human activities?
Here we get into very murky waters. Is the overall balance of the warming and cooling effects of soot a warming or a cooling? I don’t know, and there is little scientific agreement on the effect of soot. In addition, as shown above there is no indication that the post 1980 temperature rise is in any way unusual. It is not statistically different from earlier periods of warming. As a result, I believe that humans have had little effect on the climate, other than locally. There is little scientific agreement on this question.
Next, some more general and theoretical questions.
Question 8. Does the evidence from the climate models show that humans are responsible for changes in the climate?
This is another trick question. Climate models do not produce evidence. Evidence is observable and measurable data about the real world. Climate model results are nothing more than the beliefs and prejudices of the programmers made tangible. While the results of climate models can be interesting and informative, they are not evidence.
Question 9. Are the models capable of projecting climate changes for 100 years?
My answer to this is a resounding “no”. The claim is often made that it is easier to project long-term climate changes than short-term weather changes. I see no reason to believe that is true. The IPCC says:
“Projecting changes in climate due to changes in greenhouse gases 50 years from now is a very different and much more easily solved problem than forecasting weather patterns just weeks from now. To put it another way, long-term variations brought about by changes in the composition of the atmosphere are much more predictable than individual weather events.” [from page 105, 2007 IPCC WG1, FAQ 1.2]
To me, that seems very doubtful. The problem with that theory is that climate models have to deal with many more variables than weather models. They have to model all of the variables that weather models contain, plus:
• Land biology
• Sea biology
• Ocean currents
• Ground freezing and thawing
• Changes in sea ice extent and area
• Aerosol changes
• Changes in solar intensity
• Average volcanic effects
• Snow accumulation, area, melt, and sublimation
• Effect of melt water pooling on ice
• Freezing and thawing of lakes
• Changes in oceanic salinity
• Changes in ice cap and glacier thickness and extent
• Changes in atmospheric trace gases
• Variations in soil moisture
• Alterations in land use/land cover
• Interactions between all of the above
• Mechanisms which tend to maximise the sum of work and entropy according to the Constructal Law.
How can a more complex situation be modeled more easily and accurately than a simpler situation? That makes no sense at all.
Next, the problem with weather models has been clearly identified as the fact that weather is chaotic. This means that no matter how well the model starts out, within a short time it will go off the rails. But the same is true for climate, it is also chaotic. Thus, there is no reason to assume that we can predict it any better than we can predict the weather. See Mandelbrot on the chaotic nature of climate.
Finally, climate models have done very poorly in the short-term. There has been no statistically significant warming in the last fifteen years. This was not predicted by a single climate model. People keep saying that the models do well in the long-term … but no one has ever identified when the changeover occurs. Are they unreliable up to twenty-five years and reliable thereafter? Fifty years?
Question 10. Are current climate theories capable of explaining the observations?
Again I say no. For example, the prevailing theory is that forcing is linearly related to climate, such that a change of X in forcing results in a change of Y in temperature. The size of this temperature change resulting from a given forcing is called the “climate sensitivity”. In 1980, based on early simple computer climate models, the temperature resulting from a change in forcing of 3.7 watts per square meter (W/m2) was estimated to result in a temperature change of between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees Celsius. See e.g. Green and Armstrong 2007.
Since 1980, there has been a huge increase in computing power. Since 1980, there has also been a huge increase in the size and complexity of computer models. Since 1980, thousands of man hours and billions of dollars have been thrown at this question. Despite these advances, the modern estimate of the climate sensitivity is almost unchanged from its 1980 value.
To me, this lack of any advance in accuracy indicates that we have an incorrect understanding of the forces governing the climate. Otherwise, our bigger, faster and better models would have narrowed the uncertainty of the climate sensitivity. But they have not.
Question 11. Is the science settled?
To this one I would answer no, no, a thousand times no. We are just a the beginning of the study of climate. New information and new theories and new forcings are put forward on a regular basis. See e.g. Lu. The data is poor, short, and full of holes. The signal is tiny and buried in a huge amount of noise. We don’t know if the earth has a thermostat. In short, the study of climate is an infant science which is still poorly understood.
Question 12. Is climate science a physical science?
Well, sort of. It is a very strange science, in that to my knowledge it is the only physical science whose object of study is not a thing, not a physical object or phenomenon, but an average. This is because climate is defined as the average of weather over a suitably long period of time (usually taken to be 30 years.) The implications of this are not widely appreciated. Inter alia, it means that statistics is one of the most important parts of climate science.
Unfortunately, a number of what I might call the “leading blights” of climate science, like Michael Mann with his HockeySchtick, have only the most rudimentary understanding of statistics. This initially got him into trouble in his foray into the area of paleoclimate statistics, trouble which he has only compounded by his later statistical errors.
Question 13. Is the current peer-review system inadequate, and if so, how can it be improved?
There are a number of problems with the current peer-review system, some of which are highlighted in the abuses of that system revealed in the CRU emails.
There are several easy changes we could make in peer review that would help things immensely:
1. Publish the names of the reviewers and their reviews along with the paper. The reviews are just as important as the paper, as they reveal the views of other scientists on the issues covered. This will stop the “stab in the back in the dark” kind of reviewing highlighted in the CRU emails.
2. Do not reveal the names of the authors to the reviewers. While some may be able to guess the names from various clues in the paper, the reviews should be “double-blind” (neither side knows the names of the others) until publication.
3. Do the reviewing online, in a password protected area. This will allow each reviewer to read, learn from, and discuss the reviews of others in real time. The process often takes way too long, and consists of monologues rather than a round-table discussion of the problems with the paper.
4. Include more reviewers. The CRU emails show that peer review is often just an “old-boys club”, with the reviewing done by two or three friends of the author. Each journal should allow a wide variety of scientists to comment on pending papers. This should include scientists from other disciplines. For example, climate science has suffered greatly from a lack of statisticians reviewing papers. As noted above, much of climate science is statistical analysis, yet on many papers either none or only the most cursory statistical review has been done. Also, engineers should be invited to review papers as well. Many theories would benefit from practical experience. Finally, “citizen scientists” such as myself should not be excluded from the process. The journals should solicit as wide a range of views on the subject as they can. This can only help the peer review process.
5. The journals must insist on the publication of data and computer codes. A verbal description of what mathematics has been done is totally inadequate. As we saw in the “HockeyStick”, what someone thinks or says they have done may not be what they actually did. Only an examination of the code can reveal that. Like my high science teacher used to say, “Show your work.”
Question 14. Regarding climate, what action (if any) should we take at this point?
I disagree with those who say that the “precautionary principle” means that we should act now. I detail my reasons for this assertion at “Climate Caution and Precaution”. At that page I also list the type of actions that we should be taking, which are “no regrets” actions. These are actions which will have beneficial results whether or not the earth is warming.
So that is where I stand on the climate questions. I think that the earth actively maintains a preferred temperature. I think that man is having an effect on local climate in various places, but that globally man’s effect is swamped by the regulating action of clouds and thunderstorms. I think that the local effect is mainly through LU/LC changes and soot. I think that the climate regulating mechanism is much stronger than either of these forcings and is stronger than CO2 forcing. I think that at this point the actions we should take are “no regrets” actions.
Does that make me a “denier”? And if so, what am I denying?
Finally, I would like to invite Dr. Judith Curry in particular, and any other interested scientists, to publicly answer these same questions here on Watts Up With That. There has been far too much misunderstanding of everyone’s position on these important issues. A clear statement of what each of us thinks about the climate and the science will go a long way towards making the discussion both more focused and more pleasant, and perhaps it will tend to heal the well-earned distrust that many have of climate science.
Nice summary. In any next draft include material on the statistics of extreme weather events (huricanes, ice coverage, floods etc). I find there is a firmly held believe that we live in unusual and frighteningly changing times.
Again well done
DavidS
To mods: I do not know whether my previous post got through. Please advise
Anna:
“If there are extremist nuts, or ideologues with a chip on their shoulder, we should isolate them, and keep our goals and system of values clear.”
That is what I am saying. How do you we should do that? By keeping our language clear and being aware of where the words and concepts we use
originate from.
Husbanding resources and “taking care” of the environment is precisely what causes global warming according to the proponents of anthropogenic warming. We are just buying into the cult if think about this non-issue in the same terms.
Mince around all you want, but what you said is what you said.
The Kilimanjaro study is crap science. Logging is not changing the cloud cover nor melting the glaciers. That’s WWF gibberish. Why don’t you hold those pseudoscientist quacks to the same standards you hold other Alarmist pseudoscientists?
Trees actually sequester water. It’s called photosynthesis. H2O and CO2 combine to make cellulose. Amazing but true.
Let’s talk Big Picture. The Alarmists want to burn down forests today, because global warming is going to burn them down later so we might as well jump ahead. It’s the Precautionary Principle taken to the nth degree. There has been movement to institute Let It Burn on our national forests. Since Clinton was elected 100 million acres have burned.
Somebody mentioned above an Alarmist line about “clearcutting a million acres”. How about some facts: there is ZERO clearcutting happening on the Federal estate, but the annual burn acreage is approaching 10 million acres per year. The CO2 emissions are in the petagrams, but what’s more tragic are the particulate emissions in the smoke that are choking people to death across the West. Whole landscapes have been incinerated in megafires, devastating vegetation, soils, habitat, wildlife, watersheds, airsheds, scenery, recreation, heritage, public health and safety, and the economy on public and private lands.
Does that affect the local climates? If cutting a few trees does, then I guess burning up 10 million acres a year must some impact, too.
Maybe the responsible thing would be to decry wholesale Let It Burn for a host of reasons, instead of finger pointing at loggers for clearcutting the clouds out of the sky!!!!!!!!
I get it that you all want to think humanity is buggering up the climate, just not with CO2. Here’s a newsflash: humanity does not impact the climate in any significant way. Maybe a degree or two on the tarmac or right next to the barbecue, which confounds the threadbare global surface temperature grid, but the CLIMATE? No way.
You don’t want to pay exorbitant Cap and Tax rates that will further cripple our near death economy. Neither do I. But eliminating forestry is not the solution. Trade the Alarmists something else. Give them Europe. Leave my forests out of it.
Willis,
I am not a “guest” on this planet.
I detest this lovelockian terminology.
This planet is an evolutionary accident. I live here. It is my home and my planet. I and my fellow citizens can do whatever the [snip] we want here.
I repeat – I AM NOT A GUEST!!!!!
DavidS (12:35:01) : edit
David, see my post “Congenital Climate Abnormalities” regarding this issue.
Shub Niggurath (12:40:58) : edit
The problem as I see it is that the environmental organizations have bought into the CO2 scare. However, that just means they got greedy, and saw that they could attract membership and money by signing on to the hysteria.
It means nothing about the underlying question of being prudent, deliberate, and cautious in our actions that affect the environment. You may be too young to remember when the Cuyahoga River in Ohio caught fire because it was so badly polluted … I’m not. The issue of the environment is not just a theoretical one supported by econazis and false greens. I worked for years fishing salmon, and I’ve seen what can happen when people are careless and unthinking about what we put into the waterways. It can be lethal.
Now, I don’t know how to talk about that without talking about it. Over the course of the discussion, which started basically when Silent Spring was published almost a half century ago, environmental organizations have used every conceivable possible term and combination of words to describe our responsibility to be … well, responsible about those of our actions that affect the air and the rivers and the land and the creatures that live there.
So I’m not clear how you think I should talk about the issue without using descriptive terms that have been used not once, but thousands of times, by environmental organizations.
Finally, you say “Husbanding resources and “taking care” of the environment is precisely what causes global warming according to the proponents of anthropogenic warming.”
Huh? I don’t understand how husbanding resources causes global warming, and I have never heard anyone make that claim, environmentalist or not … what am I missing here?
[snip – no valid email address, see policy page]
Drudge now links to this news item c/o Andrew Bolt.
Climate change, happening before your eyes Comments 376 Comments | Permalink
Andrew Bolt Blog Thursday, April 01, 2010 at 08:40am
[snip no valid email address given – see policy page]
[snip]
Calling other posters/readers ‘denialists’ is not acceptable.]
[YEA, IT IS CHARLES. I WARNED YOU OVER A MONTH AGO AND NO ONE NOTICED THAT YOU IGNORED IT, INCLUDING ME. BLOG POLICY IS VALID EMAIL ADDRESSES ONLY. ALL COMMENTS IN VIOLATION ARE SUBJECT TO DELETION. I MIGHT HAVE RESTORED THE COMMENTS IF YOU HAD NOT PREVIOUSLY IGNORED THE WARNING, AND MADE GOOD, BUT BECAUSE YOU DID IGNORE IT ALL COMMENTS I FOUND HAVE BEEN DELETED. THEY CANNOT BE RECOVERED. YOUR PHILOSOPHICAL TAKE ON THE RULES IS NOT RELEVANT. I AM MAKING THIS PUBLIC SO PEOPLE WILL KNOW WHAT I HAVE DONE AND WHY. ~ CTM]
just for the mod- (is that you, charles?)
Yes, I know I have never used a valid email address on any post here.
I could easily get one just for the purpose, yes.
I’ve been on the net for a while and the first rule I learned was never use real info. There’s really a sound basis for this to be standard operating procedure.
I could regale you with history of the internet, naming names of people I knew who did this or that, often appearing in the msm as something of general interest. Perhaps I could even persuade you that it makes sense.
Functionally, the difference to you or me or anybody else between my using a valid addie or a formfiller is this:
if you want to mail me, you can’t. That’s it.
I know you don’t want to mail me and if anybody ever did, they’d find a way to say so. Therefore…
I’m totally not obedient. That’s to say on principle, I refuse to accommodate a request or demand that has no function apart from ritual compliance.
I suppose that’s a foreign concept to a whole generation, now. Free men the world over lament.
It’s a measure of respect that I post at all. If it conflicts with your mission, obviously it has to stop. All I need to know is that it’s not my site.
Willis, regarding the nice Sand-Castle on top of the post here, did you read this;
http://theresilientearth.com/?q=content/why-climate-models-lie
Phil M (15:35:30)
Phil, not one person I know “thought it was all over and every climate science institution in the world would be shut down”, that’s just your bizarre fantasy. We all know that your side fights dirty, that was made obvious in the CRU emails, and so we are well aware that we in for the long slog.
And as the first person to file an FOIA request with the CRU, I fully expected that the inquiry would be a whitewash … so I was neither surprised nor disappointed that it was. I am a realist, I knew they would close ranks to protect the guilty, as did anyone following the story … except perhaps you, I guess.
Phil Jones asked people to destroy evidence requested in a FOIA action. The UK police said the only reason he was not charged was that the statute of limitations had run out. And you say he was “exonerated”? Riiiight … “avoided prosecution” does not equal “exonerated”.
His pals deliberated for one whole day, didn’t take testimony from anyone involved, and declared him pure as the driven snow … yeah, you guys have the high moral ground all right.
Now, if you have anything scientific and substantial to say about the subject of this thread, you are welcome to say it. If you are just here to insult people and to try to resurrect Phil Jones’ reputation, not so much … this is a scientific blog, and your scientific opinions and claims are welcome. If there is something in my post that you think is untrue, please point it out. That’s how science works, I make claims and substantiate them, you try to falsify them.
If not, you won’t get much traction here, so you might think of posting your hate mail on some site where people will cheer and tell you how right you are, because here, we do science and not strange fantasies.
In the meantime, you might see here, here, and here for some of the many problems with the inquiry.
“A model is not just a model. In fact the simpler the model the more scientific it is. When models become complicated they become more and more prone to error. ”
Not only that, but remember… a model is an attempt to match observations. The fact that a model matches an observation shouldn’t shock anyone! The question is whether the models can ALWAYS match the observed world. Does it match all observed records of behavior? Will it match observed behavior going forward?
The fact that the models predict ever-increasing temperature, not the slight downward trend or holding steady for a signifigant period of time, tells you that the models aren’t accurate. They may take into account SOME of the appropriate features, but are lacking the complexity needed to accurately model climate.
A person glancing at the clock at 4pm could be model the clock as a static position of 2 hands. That would be correct at that moment. That doesn’t mean that the model will be accurate in 5 minutes, or 2 hours prior. Until the model sweeps the hands at the proper rates, it’s a lousy model. Climate science right now has pretty lousy models because they just don’t know enough… but have the nerve to pretend that they have all the answers.
Willis:
I think I meant to say
“Husbanding resources and “taking care” of the environment is precisely what we *should* be doing according to the proponents of anthropogenic warming. We are just buying into the cult if think about this non-issue in the same way”
The environmental ‘movement’ is dead – taken to a dark alley and capped – by the warmists. You want proof? Let us perform a litmus test – is it possible to talk about any green issue without invoking global warming or ‘climate change’?
I do not know the answer to your question of how to talk about it.
The entire green lexicon is taken over by the catastrophists. Why play along in their game?
Maybe we can make a beginning by not talking about ‘the environment’ as if it were one single thing. The warmists assume the right to tell us what we should do with our money just because they have appropriated the right to speak for all of ‘the environment’. Undercut this by a back-to-the-roots local, legal framework municipal approach to the environment.
Thanks, Willis. Great post. I always wondered what I was. Now, I finally know. I’m a heretic! Hurray! It has a nice ring to it, doesn’t it?
Ron Pittenger
PQ#1. Environmentalist? Nope, conservationist.
PQ#2. Your position on climate science? Nihilist. aka “prove it”.
Q#1. Does the earth have a prefered temperature? It has 2 and oscillates between them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Five_Myr_Climate_Change.png (sry ’bout the wikip ref)
Q#2. AGW null hypothesis? Those models predict anything correctly, yet?
Q#3. Support or reject the null hypothesis? Redirect research funding to “global cooling”, count how many climate scientists jump off the AGW bandwagon.
Q#4. Is the globe warming? It was, 1979-2000. I think there’s a cooling trend coming, but I’m waiting for proof (20 yrs should suffice).
Q#5. Are humans responsible for global warming? Yes.
Q#6. If “Yes”, how? Humans installed AC units, asphalt, etc. near the thermometers. Humans adjusted out the cooling from 1945-1979.
Question 7. How much of the post 1980 temperature change is due to human activities? No clue, the measurements are so fudged up I can’t see a thing.
Censorship here at WUWT? Who would have thought.
Reply: Comments that are nothing but venom are discouraged and often trashed. ~ ctm
Dave McK (16:00:17) : edit
I’ve been on the net for a while and the first rule I learned was to always post under my own full name. Posting anonymously or with a fake email address was just too tempting to me, I didn’t have to take responsibility for a single thing I said. As a result I said things that would have been better left unsaid …
I’ve become much more honest and temperate since I stopped hiding my identity. Now I have to stand behind my actions and opinions. If it were my call, I wouldn’t let anyone post under an alias. If you don’t want to put your real name on your opinion, I don’t want to hear it.
However, it’s not my call, so I live with the net the way it is …
“I’ve become much more honest and temperate since I stopped hiding my identity. Now I have to stand behind my actions and opinions.”
I’m sorry to hear you were ever less than honest or temperate. I’m glad you made a start. Whatever trick you use to get you there is good. I rely on principles, myself.
But, Willis, no matter how profound that confession is, it can’t change the fact that when you’re right about the weather, you’re right.
As a philosopher, however, you’re a poor comedian.
“If you don’t want to put your real name on your opinion, I don’t want to hear it.”
My name is Anybody.
Goodbye, Willis.
Thanks, Tim. The Greenland and Vostok ice cores cited above, along with the records from Bermuda Station S, clearly show that it was warmer earlier in the Holocene, and has been generally cooling.
So this entire CAGW is a 100% scam and a lie by science then, that is the only possible conclusion one can make after finding the facts.
Why? why oh why? evil? degradation?
Dear Willis,
Thanks for all your contributions at WUWT, which I enjoy enormously. I wanted to ask a question that’s been bugging me since the Ravetz revelations, and due to your fisheries background, and your insightful analysis, I would value your opinions. I realized, in reading the Ravetz discourse, and your astringent responses, that I had been for much of my life guilty of advocating postnormal science in fisheries biology. My ‘beliefs’, conditioned perhaps by the environmental movement which came to the fore as I was growing up (and thanks, also to my early reading of Rachel Carsen – but in this case her ‘Edge of the Sea’ and “The Sea Around Us’ – have been that fisheries science should be working towards the conservation of marine fishes – in part for the sake of the environment. The post-normal part, I guess, would be that I would expect scientists to interpret stock declines as overfishing more readily than they have done in the past. (The dominant theme in the Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans is that climate variations caused the Grand Banks groundfish stock collapses.) I have been dismayed at the frankly pragmatic, and phlegmatic, approach of the scientists, who probably laudably always argue against measures that will reduce fishermen’s access to the sea fisheries. For example, few that I have interviewed favour marine protected areas, because they remove a part of the sea territory from the fishing effort (and paradoxically increase the fishing effort on the boundaries). I have thought this to be wrong headed because of my own frankly environmentalist bias. However, my ultimate concern is that there still be fish left to fish.
In an area like fisheries science, I am not sure that it is possible for people to be doing the science entirely ‘objectively’: scientists either argue that the purpose of their work is to help fishermen to catch more fish (sometimes through conservation) or in a few cases, the preservation of the fish stocks. The precautionary principle is now being added to the idea of discovering the maximum sustainable yield, and I know from an earlier discussion with you that you do not favour the precautionary principle as governing fisheries management science.
I am curious just how you think fisheries scientists should approach fisheries science and management whether smuggling into this science a gently preservationist goal will undermine the science itself. There are many similarities with meteorology in the numbers of variables, the possibility of confusion between correlations and cause and effect, and the overall uncertainty. I’d just appreciate any views you’d care to express, if the mods allow and this is not too far off topic.
totally of topic so snip it Charles if you want 🙂
thank you for your efforts here at WUWT!
I hope your B Day party went well and you will have another good year!
Tim L
Reply: LEIF! He’s not playing fair! ~ ctm
genezeien (19:14:33)
Many thanks for your answers, genezeien, very interesting. That’s why I wrote the post, so that we can understand where we stand. I invite others to answer the questions as well.
Dave McK (20:01:12)
You may have missed the last part of my post, where I said:
My meaning was, people post anonymously, and although I don’t like it, I can live with it. So if you want to leave, do so, but don’t do so on my account. That’s just my opinion, don’t let my opinions stop you from expressing yours.
w.