Trust and Mistrust

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

Following up on the excellent initiative of Dr. Judith Curry (see Judith’s post and my response ), I would like to see what I can do to rebuild the justifiably lost trust in climate science. I want to bring some clarity to terms which are used all the time but which don’t seem to have an agreed upon meaning. In the process, I want to detail my own beliefs about the climate and how it works.

Figure 1. Dr Judith Curry tries to warn the greenhouse warming scientists … from Cartoons By Josh.

I don’t know about you, but I’m weary of the vague statements that characterise many of the discussions about climate change. These range from the subtle to the ridiculous. An example would be “I believe in climate change”. Given that the climate has been changing since there has been climate, what does that mean?

We also hear that there is a “consensus” … but when you ask for the actual content of the consensus, what exactly are the shared beliefs, a great silence ensues.

Often we see people being called unpleasant terms like “deniers”, with the ugly overtones of “Holocaust deniers”. I’ve been called that myself many times … but what is it that I am being accused of denying?

In an attempt to cut through the mashed potatoes and get to the meat, let me explain in question and answer format what I believe, and provide some citations for my claims. (These are only indicative citations from among many I could provide on each topic.) I will also indicate how much scientific agreement I think there is on the questions. First, some introductory questions.

Preface Question 1. Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?

I bring this up to get rid of the canard that people who don’t believe the “consensus science” on global warming are evil people who don’t care about the planet. I am a passionate environmentalist, and I have been so since 1962 when I first read Silent Spring upon its publication. I believe that we have an obligation to respect the natural ecosystems that we live among. My reasons are simple. First, we have a responsibility to be good guests and good stewards here on this amazing planet. Second, I worked extensively in my life as a commercial fisherman, and I would like for my grandchildren to have the same opportunity. The only way to do this is to monitor and be careful with our effects on the earth and the biosphere.

Preface Question 2. What single word would you choose to describe your position on climate science?

Heretic. I am neither an anthopogenic global warming (AGW) supporter nor a skeptic, I believe the entire current climate paradigm is incorrect.

Question 1. Does the earth have a preferred temperature which is actively maintained by the climate system?

To me this is the question that we should answer first. I believe that the answer is yes. Despite millennia-long volcanic eruptions, despite being struck by monstrous asteroids, despite changes in the position of the continents, as near as we can tell the average temperature of the earth has only varied by about plus or minus three percent in the last half-billion years. Over the last ten thousand years, the temperature has only varied by plus or minus one percent. Over the last 150 years, the average temperature has only varied by plus or minus 0.3%.  For a system as complex and ever-changing as the climate, this is nothing short of astounding.

Before asking any other questions about the climate, we must ask why the climate has been so stable. Until we answer that question, trying to calculate the climate sensitivity is an exercise in futility.

I have explained in “The Thermostat Hypothesis” what I think is the mechanism responsible for this unexplained stability. My explanation may be wrong, but there must be some mechanism which has kept the global temperature within plus or minus 1% for ten thousand years.

I am, however, definitely in the minority with this opinion.

Question 2. Regarding human effects on climate, what is the null hypothesis?

If we are trying to see if humans have affected the climate, the null hypothesis has to be that any changes in the climate (e.g. changes in temperature, rainfall, snow extent, sea ice coverage, drought occurrence and severity) are due to natural variations.

Question 3. What observations tend to support or reject the null hypothesis?

As I show in “Congenital Climate Abnormalities”, not only are there no “fingerprints” of human effects in the records, but I find nothing that is in any way unusual or anomalous. Yes, the earth’s temperature is changing slightly … but that has been true since the earth has had a temperature.

There is no indication that the recent warming is any different from past warmings. There is more and more evidence that the Medieval Warm period was widespread, and  that it was warmer than the present.  The Greenland ice cores show that we are at the cold end of the Holocene (the current inter-glacial period). There have been no significant changes in rainfall, floods, sea level rise, Arctic temperatures, or other indicators.

In short, I find no climate metrics that show anything which is anomalous or outside of historical natural variations. In the absence of such evidence, we cannot reject the null hypothesis.

Question 4. Is the globe warming?

This is a trick question. It is a perfect example of a frequently asked question which is totally meaningless. It shows up all the time on public opinion polls, but it is devoid of meaning. To make it meaningful, it needs to have a time period attached to it. Here are some examples of my views on the question:

1 During the last century, the earth warmed slightly (less than 1°C).

2 The earth has generally cooled over the last 12,000 years. We are currently at the cold end of the Holocene (the period since the end of the last Ice Age. See the Greenland and Vostok ice records.

3 The earth has generally warmed since the depths of the Little Ice Age around 1650, at a rate somewhere around a half a degree Celsius per century. See Akasufo, the Central England Temperature (CET), and the Armagh records.

4 The largest warming in any instrumental record occurred around 1680 – 1730. See the CET and Armagh records.

5 The earth was either stable or cooled slightly from about 1945 to 1975.

6 The earth warmed slightly from about 1975 to 1998.

7 There has been no significant warming from 1995 to the present (Feb. 2010). See The Reference Frame Phil Jones.

I would say that there is widespread scientific agreement on the existence of these general trends. The amount of the warming, however, is far less certain. There is current controversy about both the accuracy of the adjustments to the temperature measurements and the strength of local effects (UHI, poor station siting, warmth from irrigation, etc.). See e.g. McKitrick, Spencer, Christy and Norris, Ladochy et al.., Watts, SurfaceStations, and Jones on these questions.

Question 5. Are humans responsible for global warming?

This is another trick question that often shows up on polls. The question suffers from two problems. First is the lack of a time period discussed above. The second is the question of the amount of responsibility. Generally, the period under discussion is the post-1900 warming. So let me rephrase the question as “Are humans responsible for some part of the late 20th century warming?”

To this question I would say “Yes”. Again, there is widespread scientific agreement on that simplistic question, but as usual, the devil is in the details discussed in Question 4.

Question 6. If the answer to Question 5 is “Yes”, how are humans affecting the climate?

I think that humans affect the climate in two main ways. The first is changes in land use/land cover, or what is called “LU/LC”. I believe that when you cut down a forest, you cut down the clouds. This mechanism has been implicated in e.g. the decline in the Kilimanjaro Glacier. When you introduce widespread irrigation, the additional water vapor both warms and moderates the climate. When you pave a parking lot, local temperatures rise. See e.g. Christie and Norris, Fall et al., Kilimanjaro.

The second main way humans affect climate is through soot, which I will broadly define as black and brown carbon. Black carbon comes mostly from burning of fossil fuels, while brown carbon comes mostly from the burning of biofuels. This affects the climate in two ways. In the air, the soot absorbs incoming solar radiation, and prevents it from striking the ground. This reduces the local temperature. In addition, when soot settles out on ice and snow, it accelerates the melting of the ice and snow. This increases the local temperature by reducing the surface albedo. See e.g. Jacobson.

There is little scientific agreement on this question. A number of scientists implicate greenhouse gases as the largest contributor. Other scientists say that LU/LC is the major mover. The IPCC places values on these and other so-called “forcings”, but it admits that our scientific understanding of many of forcings is “low”.

Question 7. How much of the post 1980 temperature change is due to human activities?

Here we get into very murky waters. Is the overall balance of the warming and cooling effects of soot a warming or a cooling? I don’t know, and there is little scientific agreement on the effect of soot. In addition, as shown above there is no indication that the post 1980 temperature rise is in any way unusual. It is not statistically different from earlier periods of warming. As a result, I believe that humans have had little effect on the climate, other than locally. There is little scientific agreement on this question.

Next, some more general and theoretical questions.

Question 8. Does the evidence from the climate models show that humans are responsible for changes in the climate?

This is another trick question. Climate models do not produce evidence. Evidence is observable and measurable data about the real world. Climate model results are nothing more than the beliefs and prejudices of the programmers made tangible. While the results of climate models can be interesting and informative, they are not evidence.

Question 9. Are the models capable of projecting climate changes for 100 years?

My answer to this is a resounding “no”. The claim is often made that it is easier to project long-term climate changes than short-term weather changes. I see no reason to believe that is true. The IPCC says:

“Projecting changes in climate due to changes in greenhouse gases 50 years from now is a very different and much more easily solved problem than forecasting weather patterns just weeks from now. To put it another way, long-term variations brought about by changes in the composition of the atmosphere are much more predictable than individual weather events.” [from page 105, 2007 IPCC WG1, FAQ 1.2]

To me, that seems very doubtful. The problem with that theory is that climate models have to deal with many more variables than weather models. They have to model all of the variables that weather models contain, plus:

• Land biology

• Sea biology

• Ocean currents

• Ground freezing and thawing

• Changes in sea ice extent and area

• Aerosol changes

• Changes in solar intensity

• Average volcanic effects

• Snow accumulation, area, melt, and sublimation

• Effect of melt water pooling on ice

• Freezing and thawing of lakes

• Changes in oceanic salinity

• Changes in ice cap and glacier thickness and extent

• Changes in atmospheric trace gases

• Variations in soil moisture

• Alterations in land use/land cover

• Interactions between all of the above

• Mechanisms which tend to maximise the sum of work and entropy according to the Constructal Law.

How can a more complex situation be modeled more easily and accurately than a simpler situation? That makes no sense at all.

Next, the problem with weather models has been clearly identified as the fact that weather is chaotic. This means that no matter how well the model starts out, within a short time it will go off the rails. But the same is true for climate, it is also chaotic. Thus, there is no reason to assume that we can predict it any better than we can predict the weather. See Mandelbrot on the chaotic nature of climate.

Finally, climate models have done very poorly in the short-term. There has been no statistically significant warming in the last fifteen years. This was not predicted by a single climate model. People keep saying that the models do well in the long-term … but no one has ever identified when the changeover occurs. Are they unreliable up to twenty-five years and reliable thereafter? Fifty years?

Question 10. Are current climate theories capable of explaining the observations?

Again I say no. For example, the prevailing theory is that forcing is linearly related to climate, such that a change of X in forcing results in a change of Y in temperature. The size of this temperature change resulting from a given forcing is called the “climate sensitivity”. In 1980, based on early simple computer climate models, the temperature resulting from a change in forcing of 3.7 watts per square meter (W/m2) was estimated to result in a temperature change of between 1.5 and 4.5 degrees Celsius. See e.g. Green and Armstrong 2007.

Since 1980, there has been a huge increase in computing power. Since 1980, there has also been a huge increase in the size and complexity of computer models. Since 1980, thousands of man hours and billions of dollars have been thrown at this question. Despite these advances, the modern estimate of the climate sensitivity is almost unchanged from its 1980 value.

To me, this lack of any advance in accuracy indicates that we have an incorrect understanding of the forces governing the climate. Otherwise, our bigger, faster and better models would have narrowed the uncertainty of the climate sensitivity. But they have not.

Question 11. Is the science settled?

To this one I would answer no, no, a thousand times no. We are just a the beginning of the study of climate. New information and new theories and new forcings are put forward on a regular basis. See e.g. Lu. The data is poor, short, and full of holes. The signal is tiny and buried in a huge amount of noise. We don’t know if the earth has a thermostat. In short, the study of climate is an infant science which is still poorly understood.

Question 12. Is climate science a physical science?

Well, sort of. It is a very strange science, in that to my knowledge it is the only physical science whose object of study is not a thing, not a physical object or phenomenon, but an average. This is because climate is defined as the average of weather over a suitably long period of time (usually taken to be 30 years.) The implications of this are not widely appreciated. Inter alia, it means that statistics is one of the most important parts of climate science.

Unfortunately, a number of what I might call the “leading blights” of climate science, like Michael Mann with his HockeySchtick, have only the most rudimentary understanding of statistics. This initially got him into trouble in his foray into the area of paleoclimate statistics, trouble which he has only compounded by his later statistical errors.

Question 13. Is the current peer-review system inadequate, and if so, how can it be improved?

There are a number of problems with the current peer-review system, some of which are highlighted in the abuses of that system revealed in the CRU emails.

There are several easy changes we could make in peer review that would help things immensely:

1. Publish the names of the reviewers and their reviews along with the paper. The reviews are just as important as the paper, as they reveal the views of other scientists on the issues covered. This will stop the “stab in the back in the dark” kind of reviewing highlighted in the CRU emails.

2. Do not reveal the names of the authors to the reviewers. While some may be able to guess the names from various clues in the paper, the reviews should be “double-blind” (neither side knows the names of the others) until publication.

3. Do the reviewing online, in a password protected area. This will allow each reviewer to read, learn from, and discuss the reviews of others in real time. The process often takes way too long, and consists of monologues rather than a round-table discussion of the problems with the paper.

4. Include more reviewers. The CRU emails show that peer review is often just an “old-boys club”, with the reviewing done by two or three friends of the author. Each journal should allow a wide variety of scientists to comment on pending papers. This should include scientists from other disciplines. For example, climate science has suffered greatly from a lack of statisticians reviewing papers. As noted above, much of climate science is statistical analysis, yet on many papers either none or only the most cursory statistical review has been done. Also, engineers should be invited to review papers as well. Many theories would benefit from practical experience. Finally, “citizen scientists” such as myself should not be excluded from the process. The journals should solicit as wide a range of views on the subject as they can. This can only help the peer review process.

5. The journals must insist on the publication of data and computer codes. A verbal description of what mathematics has been done is totally inadequate. As we saw in the “HockeyStick”, what someone thinks or says they have done may not be what they actually did. Only an examination of the code can reveal that. Like my high science teacher used to say, “Show your work.”

Question 14. Regarding climate, what action (if any) should we take at this point?

I disagree with those who say that the “precautionary principle” means that we should act now. I detail my reasons for this assertion at “Climate Caution and Precaution”.  At that page I also list the type of actions that we should be taking, which are “no regrets” actions. These are actions which will have beneficial results whether or not the earth is warming.

So that is where I stand on the climate questions. I think that the earth actively maintains a preferred temperature. I think that man is having an effect on local climate in various places, but that globally man’s effect is swamped by the regulating action of clouds and thunderstorms. I think that the local effect is mainly through LU/LC changes and soot. I think that the climate regulating mechanism is much stronger than either of these forcings and is stronger than CO2 forcing. I think that at this point the actions we should take are “no regrets” actions.

Does that make me a “denier”? And if so, what am I denying?

Finally, I would like to invite Dr. Judith Curry in particular, and any other interested scientists, to publicly answer these same questions here on Watts Up With That. There has been far too much misunderstanding of everyone’s position on these important issues. A clear statement of what each of us thinks about the climate and the science will go a long way towards making the discussion both more focused and more pleasant, and perhaps it will tend to heal the well-earned distrust that many have of climate science.

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327 Comments
Paul Vaughan
April 1, 2010 10:27 pm

Re: Judith Curry (04:28:41)
Since humorous partisan rants explain nothing, I am opting to contribute as follows:
Vaughan, P.L. (2010). Volcanic Activity, the Sun, the Moon, & the Stratosphere.
http://www.sfu.ca/~plv/VolcanoStratosphereSLAM.htm
Best Regards,
Paul Vaughan, B.Sc., M.Sc.
Ecologist, Parks & Natural Forests Advocate, & Independent Climate Researcher

Sera
April 1, 2010 10:53 pm

For the record- I prefer to think of Willis as a conservationist. Not a preservationist or environmentalist. And my name is James Glendinning- sera is an acronym.

Phil M
April 2, 2010 12:00 am

Willis, you published in Energy & Developments. A low tier journal & hardly considered anything serious in the climate science world.
You say ” “this is a scientific blog, and your scientific opinions and claims are welcome”. I disagree, it is a commentary blog.
If you want to talk science, what are you doing on a commentary blog? Why not approach NAS, NASA, AMU, CRU, MET, NOAA, CSIRO, BOM, Royal Society & other major instituions with your findings? Heck, why not submit a paper to one of the top journals & see how you go? Or go an take up your theories on the many blogs that oppose your views & see how you go.
Are you a scientist? Do you live in the UK? What did you hope to achieve from submitting FOI to the CRU besides holding up science? Unless you are a climate scientists, you wouldnt have known what to do with the data you requested. All you are doing with your FOI attempts is spamming.
You guys complain of being censored when you ask the hard questions of climate scientists & then call it venomous when some one asks you the hard questions? That is simply moderators setting the agenda.

anna v
April 2, 2010 12:02 am

Re: Shub Niggurath (Apr 1 12:31),

Here you are, talking about a few trees and fishes, when organizations such as these plan to control human minds and the climate of the globe. And yet, you both speak the same language. How did that happen?

Have you noticed that we are also using the same alphabet? Should we start using Sanskrit?
I think you are panicking and ignoring that we are using language and vocabulary just to convey meanings. One should pay attention to the meaning.
btw from webster:
Main Entry: 2husband
Function: transitive verb
Date: 15th century
1 a : to manage prudently and economically b : to use sparingly : conserve

April 2, 2010 12:24 am

[quote: Richard S Courtney (10:14:08) :]
Please do not malign davidmhoffer by putting words in his mouth that he did not utter.
You write:
“[quote davidmhoffer (06:19:58) :]
He did not say that here, and I do not know if he would or would not say it.
But I know I said it at (06:38:45).
Richard
[/quote]

Well, I wasn’t maligning any one, I was agreeing with the statement.
.
But my apologies for the mixup in the attribution of the quote.

Mark.R
April 2, 2010 12:29 am

Financial Times Uncovers Widespread Carbon Trading Fraud
But what the FT has found is even worse than what we had imagined, worse in the sense that the abuses are so widespread. We hope you will read the stories in their entirety; this is Pulitzer Prize level work (and far more important than the options backdating story that won this year). It will be interesting to see how much, if any, of the FT’s reporting is picked up in the US.
Companies and individuals rushing to go green have been spending millions on “carbon credit” projects that yield few if any environmental benefits.
The FT investigation found:
■ Widespread instances of people and organisations buying worthless credits that do not yield any reductions in carbon emissions.
■ Industrial companies profiting from doing very little – or from gaining carbon credits on the basis of efficiency gains from which they have already benefited substantially.
■ Brokers providing services of questionable or no value.
■ A shortage of verification, making it difficult for buyers to assess the true value of carbon credits.
■ Companies and individuals being charged over the odds for the private purchase of European Union carbon permits that have plummeted in value because they do not result in emissions cuthttp://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2007/04/financial-times-uncovers-widespread.htmls.

anna v
April 2, 2010 1:31 am

Re: Phil M (Apr 2 00:00),
If you want to talk science, what are you doing on a commentary blog?
I know why, I, a scientist, am following this scientific commentary blog. Blogs have replaced coffee shops and cafeterias where we used to draw on napkins our latest propositions and fought over definitions.
Why not approach NAS, NASA, AMU, CRU, MET, NOAA, CSIRO, BOM, Royal Society & other major institutions with your findings? Heck, why not submit a paper to one of the top journals & see how you go? Or go an take up your theories on the many blogs that oppose your views & see how you go.
“Won’t you come into my parlour
said the spider to the fly.”
Except we are not flies but wasps. We will buzz with ideas that sting the complacent “climate science club” of journals and incestuous “scientists” into retrospection and insist on the true scientific method that has been lost in the fray.
In addition, this particular blog is open to opposite views, something that is not true in the “many blogs that oppose our views”.
As far as I have seen these two and a half years I have been trying as a physicist to understand the AGW proposition, “climate science” is a mixture of bad use of physics, statistics and data. A conglomerate of scientists from various disciplines, who, in a majority, work away like ants on their own little problem and trust on the scientific integrity of the others. This allowed a few savvy manipulators to control “climate science” to their profit, either academically or politically.

Vincent
April 2, 2010 3:22 am

Willis, People like Phil M just can’t stand it when members of the amateur community run rings around their climate gods. You should be flattered by the rage you have provoked.

TomVonk
April 2, 2010 4:54 am

AnnaV
Husbanding resources and taking care of the environment are necessary conditions for the survival of human communities, has been ever since humans appeared, and I do not see why these principles should be thrown out when we become a global community by the force of technology that has made the whole world our back yard.
.
Nothing of the above is a “principle” because it is not even univocally defined .
Because of that it seems to me that those ill defined sentences can’t have any impact whatsoever on objective and important things like “survival” .
Strictly speaking there is only one necessary condition for survival : enough energy , oxygen and water . LOCALLY !
.
Taking care of environment ?
Any living being takes care of environment by extracting energy from it and by s….g in it . This comes hardwired with our DNA . That’s what we all do .
It’s trivial , sufficient and necessary .
Of course on top comes a foggy crowd of esthetic , religious and pseudo-philosophical musings (trees look better than concrete walls , s..t smells bad , illness may shorten life , pandas are cute, selfsacrifice is a virtue and richness is a sin etc etc)
This subjective infinite list of nice to haves is on top self contradictory because for every statement there is its opposite too .
Even if some statements would find an agreement of a majority and their negation a minority , they are not principles and even less necessary .
.
My position would be rather :
“Take care of yourself and the environment will take care of itself like it did for 4.5 billions years and will continue in the future . Be however aware that the environment is hostile and unconcerned by your well being whatever you do – you don’t care for it , you fight it . Be also aware that you will be never able to tell whether you’ll like or dislike any particular environment response over the long run . This dictates a reasonable maximum time scale at which a man should bother – a couple of dozen of years”

April 2, 2010 5:45 am

anna v
“Have you noticed that we are also using the same alphabet? Should we start using Sanskrit?…..panicking….”
I think you are trying to lose me in a deliberately dug hole of literalism.
When I said stewardship is the foundation of eco-fundamentalism, you understood what I said but yet tried to imply that I was equating them both. I was not. Just like equality -> communism and socialism -> fascism, the earlier concept can serve as a foundation but is certainly not sufficient to specify the end result. Which is what I said.
Where are we in disagreement? I am saying there is a problem with the foundation and you are saying the foundation and the system are different things.
You are probably feeling conflicted about certain concepts and therefore quoting from the dictionary etc. The concept of stewardship is a dangerous, seductive and ultimately empty one. I am talking not just about the word – I am concerned with our word usage for the ideas they carry. Its place in political philosophy is dubious – and at conflict with gains from long and hard fought battles re: – personal liberty, freedom of speech and property rights among others.
I am hardly an environmentalist but I am sure there are folks like Willis who are, and what could they do to prevent their movement being taken over by the warmists? Nothing – that is what. They should be panicking.
No one is anyone’s steward. If there are problems in the environment, the political radius which it encompasses should legislate over it.
It is sad that environmentalism and stewardship get defended so vigoursly. These are umbrella ideas and feel-good concoctions that serve certain purposes. The latter word especially is a think-tank product, especially in the sense it is widely used today.
Phil M:
I think you are being hostile to Willis. You may see him through your personal perspective or you might have picked your impression second-hand but if you put in an email address, you can pretty much say anything here at WUWT and AFAIK, Willis has always answered questions in his posts. Have fun.

beng
April 2, 2010 5:48 am

*******
31 03 2010
Willis Eschenbach (23:45:54) :
Mike D. (22:51:13)
I believe that when you cut down a forest, you cut down the clouds.
That’s just twaddle. Besides, worldwide there are more standing trees today, and more forested acres, than there were 100 years ago.
“That’s just twaddle”? Gosh, I love it when someone comes up with a well reasoned, well cited scientific argument against something I’ve said.
Read the link above to Kilimanjaro, where the cutting down of the forests is found to be the reason that the glacier is shrinking.
And yes, there are more standing trees now than there were 100 years ago. But I said that cutting down trees has a local effect on the climate, and that is true no matter how many trees there are on the planet.

*******
In the eastern US, when the great central Appalachian forests were cut down in the late 1920’s & early 1930’s, summer temps soared, culminating in all-time records of ~110F (43C) in 1936 in MD, WV, PA, and VA. Rainfall also decreased markedly. The forests have steadily regrown, and since then 100F+ days are almost unknown in rural, non-urban locations. Rainfall has also returned to higher, pre-1930 levels.

April 2, 2010 6:56 am

Willis Eschenbach (11:05:21) :
…”Yes, I know the IPCC says a few degrees will kill us all or something of the sort. And I know that some scientists said in Nature Magazine that a 2° temperature rise would lead to the extinction of a third of the world’s species … as the authors opined, “We’re not talking about the occasional extinction—we’re talking about 1.25 million species. It’s a massive number.” YIKES. Be afraid, be very afraid …”
This brings up a point that I’ve been considering lately. Is a 2deg change in the average temperature a disaster? In my locality the average daily temperture swings from 26F to 74F in the winter and 69F to 104F in the summer. Record temps go from -7F to 104F throughout the year.
Globally the record temperature ranges from -129F in Antarctica (1983) to 136F in Libya (1922).
And yet there is life on every square inch of this planet. Even in hydrothermal vents miles below the ocean’s surface where tempertures can melt metal.
Is a 2deg rise in “average global temperature” really going to do anything at all??????? So what, summers around here will swing from 71F to 106F in the future? I can live with that. And global temps will range from -127F to 138F?
By the way, looking for a 2deg rise in data that fluctuates from -129F to 136F across the globe is precisely why it’s a statistical nightmare.
This is “Pathaological Science” and “fear mongoring” at their highest levels.

anna v
April 2, 2010 7:38 am

Re: TomVonk (Apr 2 04:54),
.
My position would be rather :
“Take care of yourself and the environment will take care of itself like it did for 4.5 billions years and will continue in the future .

As much of a principle as mine, no?
Be however aware that the environment is hostile and unconcerned by your well being whatever you do – you don’t care for it , you fight it .
Ah, a belief. An anthropomorphic one at that.
If the environment were truly hostile to biological beings, there would be no biological beings evolved or not.
I would rather believe that we are as natural in our environment as the lions and the fungi.
Be also aware that you will be never able to tell whether you’ll like or dislike any particular environment response over the long run . This dictates a reasonable maximum time scale at which a man should bother – a couple of dozen of years”
Well, living in an area where civilization and cultivation and landscaping has been going on for thousands of years, I would say that your time horizon, a generation, is too short. Humans tend to think about posterity, in contrast to animals, so they build harbors and change the course of rivers, and clean fields for the children and the grandchildren, and the great grandchildren.
There are olive trees that are over 2000 years old still cultivated and giving olives. Grandfathers still plant new olive groves for a new grandchild.
It is in the twentieth century where changes have accelerated and it seems that we are on a train going down an incline without brakes . Our histories and traditions have brakes, and we should use them.

Bruce Cobb
April 2, 2010 7:40 am

Mike D. (13:48:37) :
eliminating forestry is not the solution.
Methinks you doth protest too much. No one wants to “eliminate forestry”. No one has even implied that. You are ranting and raging against a straw man of your own making.
And yes, it most certainly is possible for widespread deforestation to affect climate locally, as in the case of Kilimanjaro. Cutting down the cloud forests of Monteverde, Costa Rica also affected climate in that area, reducing cloud-cover and decreasing soil moisture. The climatic differences between those areas and the surrounding still-forested ones were clear. This in turn affected both the local flora and fauna, resulting in extinction of a species of toad. This does not in any way put a value judgment on what happened. It is, however important that we know the consequences of our actions. It also helps shut the traps of the Alarmists, who latch onto anything they think will capture the publics’ imagination, such as a
disappearing glacier, or species extinction to try to bolster their bogus arguments.

April 2, 2010 8:23 am

Willis,
Thanks for the thought-provoking post – your questions here are excellent, the discussion enlightening, and I await answers from our colleagues in the man-made CO2 AGW camp as I am always anxious to learn more. In addition to looking forward to their answers, how about a list of questions from the man-made CO2 AGW camp including Phil M’s “hard” question(s)?

Phil Jourdan
April 2, 2010 9:09 am

Phil M (00:00:10) :
A shame we share the same first name. However, I fail to see the worth in you posting that you hate something, or degrading it because you do not understand it. Clearly you are entitled to your opinion, but I would think that if you wanted to contribute something substantive, at least it would not be a waste of your precious time (since you think Armegeddon is at hand ala global warming).
Thanks for wasting my time reading your non-responsiveness. I guess you have nothing better to do.

Tim Clark
April 2, 2010 12:40 pm

Phil M (19:18:13) :
Censorship here at WUWT? Who would have thought.
Reply: Comments that are nothing but venom are discouraged and often trashed. ~ ctm
Willis Eisenbach:
People who come in spoiling for a fight and trying to provoke one by insulting everyone in sight, on the other hand, are the reason that nightclubs have bouncers … the moderators do an excellent job and moderate with a light hand. I commend them for doing a time-consuming and thankless job.

Well done, ctm; AKA “The Venom Bouncer”.
In a thread a while back, Leif Svalgaard produced his 14 point summation of the state of climate science. I scored a 10.
Willis’s score – 14.

hunter
April 2, 2010 1:19 pm

Preface Question 1. Do you consider yourself an environmentalist?
Yes..
Preface Question 2. What single word would you choose to describe your position on climate science?
Intesnselyinterested
Question 1. Does the earth have a preferred temperature which is actively maintained by the climate system?
there is a prevalent range of temps, as seen in the historical record.
Question 2. Regarding human effects on climate, what is the null hypothesis?
The question is too vague. Humans are a part of the Earth environmental climate system. Of course we impact it. We have done so for millenia.
But to reframe the question to today’s AGW-driven context:
What is the null hypothesis is that CO2 is not causing a global climate catastrophe.
Question 3. What observations tend to support or reject the null hypothesis?
The lack of anything approaching a climate crisis. The lack of weather patterns, which make up climate, doing anything unusual. the failed rate of pro-AGW predictions.
Question 4. Is the globe warming?
Probably some. Nothing outside of the range of historical variability.
Question 5. Are humans responsible for global warming?
If the range of change is not harful or unusual, who really cares?
Question 6. If the answer to Question 5 is “Yes”, how are humans affecting the climate?
By way of land use changes, vegetation changes, changes in water flows, urbanization, and ghg’s
Question 7. How much of the post 1980 temperature change is due to human activities?
why should we actually care?
Question 8. Does the evidence from the climate models show that humans are responsible for changes in the climate?
We do not need climate models to show humans impact climate. See the above relevant answers.
the models that purport to show that COs is driving the climate to a catastrophe are failed- see above.
Question 9. Are the models capable of projecting climate changes for 100 years?
No.
Question 10. Are current climate theories capable of explaining the observations?
No.
Question 11. Is the science settled?
Only to the extent that it is not science.
Question 12. Is climate science a physical science?
Climate science, as represented by AGW, is to climate science what eugenics was to biology.
Question 13. Is the current peer-review system inadequate, and if so, how can it be improved?
The peer review system is very excellent, and as soon as climate scientists learn to use it properly and not corrptly, they and the public will benefit from its use.
Question 14. Regarding climate, what action (if any) should we take at this point?
do things that actually reduce real pollutants, mitigates the impacts of pollutants, improve land use, agricultural practices, and stop worrying about CO2. Work to mitigate the impact of climate changes on habitat and people.

Gail Combs
April 2, 2010 1:21 pm

Willis, Super article. You write very clearly.
Murray Lane (01:10:04) :
“Your review is very clear and understandable. My question is: Why is it that politicians and alarmists cannot understand the simplicity of your message and how do we change the message to ensure they do understand it? PML”
REPLY:
The politicians and alarmists do understand that CAGW is a con job after all THEY are the ones who put together the hoax in the first place. As a result we WILL get a worldwide Carbon TAX payable to a foreign totalitarian group and we WILL get the UN (actually the World Bank) as an over arching government. And I also expect to see the USA to collapse within my life time.
No I am not being sarcastic. Bill Clinton wrecked the economy beyond repair on November 2 ,1999 with the repeal of Glass-Stegall which tore down the wall between investment banks and S&Ls. Barney Frank (D-Mass) also has his fingerprints all over this mess with the passage of the Community Reinvestment Act (1977) which required lenders to make risky loans to low-income minorities to purchase housing. This act was expanded further during Bill Clinton’s presidency, creating a higher percentage and a larger pool of subprime mortgages. The whole thing crashed in 2008/9 so Obama DOUBLED the money supply opening the doors to run away inflation with no manufacturing to pay off the USA’s debts.
Stewart Dougherty, a specialist in inferential analysis, agrees. It is now “statistically impossible for the United States to pay its obligations”. http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/08.09/metastasis.html
Grace Commission report notes that 100% of personal income tax goes to pay interest on the national debt, the lion’s share of which goes to the banking cartel that we know as the Federal Reserve. http://www.bloggernews.net/17032
This is a sampling of the industries with over 50% foreign ownership, according to Source Watch http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Foreign_ownership_of_U.S._corporations
* Sound recording industries – 97%
* Commodity contracts dealing and brokerage – 79%
* Motion picture and sound recording industries – 75%
* Metal ore mining – 65%
* Wineries and distilleries – 64%
* Database, directory, Book and other publishers – 63%
* Cement, concrete, lime, and gypsum product – 62%
* Engine, turbine and power transmission equipment – 57%
* Rubber product – 53%
* Nonmetallic mineral product manufacturing – 53%
* Plastics and rubber products manufacturing – 52%
* Other insurance related activities – 51%
* Boiler, tank, and shipping container – 50%
* Glass and glass product – 48%
Coal mining – 48%
A real eye opener isn’t it. But it gets worse. The Department of Homeland Security says 80% of our ports are operated by Foreigners and they are buying and running US bridges and toll roads. http://www.alabamaeagle.org/issues.asp?action=form&formID=2105&recordID=131006
Statistics (courtesy of Bridgewater) showed in 1990, before WTO was ratified by Clinton, Foreign ownership of U.S. assets amounted to 33% of U.S. GDP. By 2002 this had increased to over 70% of U.S. GDP. http://www.fame.org/HTM/greg%20Pickup%201%2010%2003%20report.htm
An analysis of the 2007 financial markets of 48 countries shows the world’s finances are in the hands of a few mutual funds, banks, and corporations. This is the first report of global concentration of financial power ..http://www.insidescience.org/research/study_says_world_s_stocks_controlled_by_select_few
I am afraid CAGW is just one of many brain washing weapons in a whole arsenal, all designed to concentrate power and wealth in the hands of a very few with the ultimate goal of reducing the middle class to poverty stricken serfs.
This site gives a whole bunch of quotes from the megalomaniacs who want to rid the earth of the middle class and most of the human population. http://climategate.tv/?tag=maurice-strong

Pragmatic
April 2, 2010 1:47 pm

Phil M 00:
Are you a scientist? Do you live in the UK? What did you hope to achieve from submitting FOI to the CRU besides holding up science? Unless you are a climate scientists, you wouldnt have known what to do with the data you requested. All you are doing with your FOI attempts is spamming.
Phil, there are VERY good reasons for FOI law now in force in most democratic countries. It is founded on American First Amendment concepts supporting the public’s right to know what its government is doing. Here is a brief overview by David C. Vladeck, Associate professor, Georgetown University Law Center:
“FOIA was designed to bring an end to the idea that government could operate behind closed doors. FOIA establishes a presumption that all government information is available to the public, subject only to a few, narrowly circumscribed exemptions. Some information — agency rules and final orders and decisions — must be published and disseminated by the agency, and under newly added provisions of FOIA, agencies must make this information available over the Internet. But the heart of FOIA is its requirement that agencies, upon request, disclose any record in the agency’s possession to anyone.”
While the law should not be used to harass or impede – it cannot be ignored because it may be inconvenient. Regardless of your opinion as to the competence of a petitioner to evaluate data – the data belong to the people. Jones, apparently threatened by scrutiny of his work, sought to avoid the FOI requests of several petitioners. Such avoidance is unlawful. He also requested associates destroy data. Also unlawful. As noted, it is only the statute of limitations that precludes Jones from criminal prosecution for these actions.

Tenuc
April 2, 2010 3:21 pm

Another useful post Willis, which you have written in a clear and concise manner.
I find some of the semantics used are not terms I can easily equate to in my view of reality and I will ponder how best to rephrase and then answer your questions in a context more in line with my world view.
It would be of massive benefit if people in the pro-CAGW camp could also respond in a similar way so at least some solid ground could be in place to improve the quality of debate.

vigilantfish
April 2, 2010 3:30 pm

Willis,
Thank-you. You did not exactly answer my question, but I appreciate what you wrote: both content and style. I suspect my question, like most things in life, has no easy answer. Perhaps (heresy!) not all Post Normal Science is bad, depending on the situation? For the past decade or so in some areas fishermen are not participating in scientific data gathering, and in deciding co-management strategies, which is reminiscent of Ravetz’s democratization of science. And one scientist recently observed to me that scientists were having to rethink their view that all fishermen are pirates (a phrase I’ve heard from more than one fisheries biologist).
A friend just gave me Richard Ellis’s “Tuna: Love, Death and Mercury” for my birthday, so I’m going to become a little more familiar with tuna problems. Thanks for taking the time to reply to my queries.

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