From Fox News, word that the Met Office has circulated a proposal that intends to completely start over with raw surface temperature data in a transparent process.
Here’s the proposal from the Met Office metoffice_proposal_022410 (PDF). Unfortunately it is not searchable, as they still seem to be living in the typewriter age, having photoscanned the printed document.
I’d feel better about it though if they hadn’t used the word “robust”. Every time I see that word in the context of climate data it makes me laugh. It seems though they already have concluded the effort will find no new information. Given that they are apparently only interested in ending the controversy over transparency, and because GHCN (source for GISS and HadCRUT) originates at NCDC with it’s own set of problems and it is controlled by one man, Dr. Thomas Peterson, it means that we’ll have our work cut out for us again. In my opinion, this proposal is CYA and does not address the basic weaknesses of the data collection.
Britain’s Weather Office Proposes Climate-Gate Do-Over
By George Russell.
At a meeting on Monday of about 150 climate scientists, representatives of Britain’s weather office quietly proposed that the world’s climatologists start all over again to produce a new trove of global temperature data that is open to public scrutiny and “rigorous” peer review.
After the firestorm of criticism called Climate-gate, the British government’s official Meteorological Office apparently has decided to wave a white flag and surrender.
At a meeting on Monday of about 150 climate scientists in the quiet Turkish seaside resort of Antalya, representatives of the weather office (known in Britain as the Met Office) quietly proposed that the world’s climate scientists start all over again on a “grand challenge” to produce a new, common trove of global temperature data that is open to public scrutiny and “rigorous” peer review.
In other words, conduct investigations into modern global warming in a way that the Met Office bureaucrats hope will end the mammoth controversy over world temperature data they collected that has been stirred up by their secretive and erratic ways.
The executive summary of the Met Office proposal to the World Meteorological Organization’s Committee for Climatology was obtained by Fox News. In it, the Met Office defends its controversial historical record of temperature readings, along with similar data collected in the U.S., as a “robust indicator of global change.” But it admits that “further development” of the record is required “in particular to better assess the risks posed by changes in extremes of climate.”
As a result, the proposal says, “we feel that it is timely to propose an international effort to reanalyze surface temperature data in collaboration with the World Meteorological Organization (WMO), which has the responsibility for global observing and monitoring systems for weather and climate.”
The new effort, the proposal says, would provide:
–“verifiable datasets starting from a common databank of unrestricted data”
–“methods that are fully documented in the peer reviewed literature and open to scrutiny;”
–“a set of independent assessments of surface temperature produced by independent groups using independent methods,”
–“comprehensive audit trails to deliver confidence in the results;”
–“robust assessment of uncertainties associated with observational error, temporal and geographical in homogeneities.”
Click here to read the executive summary.
The Met Office proposal asserts that “we do not anticipate any substantial changes in the resulting global and continental-scale … trends” as a result of the new round of data collection. But, the proposal adds, “this effort will ensure that the data sets are completely robust and that all methods are transparent.”
Despite the bravado, those precautions and benefits are almost a point-by-point surrender by the Met Office to the accusations that have been leveled at its Hadley Climate Centre in East Anglia, which had stonewalled climate skeptics who demanded to know more about its scientific methods. (An inquiry established that the institution had flouted British freedom of information laws in refusing to come up with the data.)
When initially contacted by Fox News to discuss the proposal, its likely cost, how long it would take to complete, and its relationship to the Climate-gate scandal, the Met Office declared that no press officers were available to answer questions. After a follow-up call, the Office said it would answer soon, but did not specify when. At the time of publication, Fox News had not heard back.
The Hadley stonewall began to crumble after a gusher of leaked e-mails revealed climate scientists, including the center’s chief, Phil Jones, discussing how to keep controversial climate data out of the hands of the skeptics, keep opposing scientific viewpoints out of peer-reviewed scientific journals, and bemoaning that their climate models failed to account for more than a decade of stagnation in global temperatures. Jones later revealed that key temperature datasets used in Hadley’s predictions had been lost, and could not be retrieved for verification.
Jones stepped down temporarily after the British government announced an ostensibly independent inquiry into the still-growing scandal, but that only fanned the flames, as skeptics pointed out ties between several panel members and the Hadley Centre. In an interview two weeks ago, Jones also admitted that there has been no “statistically significant” global warming in the past 15 years.
The Met Office’s shift in position could be a major embarrassment for British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who as recently as last month declared that climate skeptics were “flat-earthers” and “anti-science” for refusing to accept that man-made activity was a major cause of global warming. Brown faces a tough election battle for his government, perhaps as early as May.
It is also a likely blow to Rajendra Pachauri, head of the United Nations backed International Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), whose most recent report, published in 2007, has been exposed by skeptics as rife with scientific errors, larded with un-reviewed and non-scientific source materials, and other failings.
As details of the report’s sloppiness emerged, the ranks of skepticism have swelled to include larger numbers of the scientific community, including weather specialists who worked on the sprawling IPCC report. Calls for Pachauri’s resignation have come from organizations as normally opposed as the Competitive Enterprise Institute and the British chapter of Greenpeace. So far, he has refused to step down.
The Met Office proposes that the new international effort to recalibrate temperature data start at a “workshop”‘ hosted by Hadley. The Met Office would invite “key players” to start the “agreed community challenge” of creating the new datasets.
Then, in a last defense of its old ways, the Met proposals argues says that its old datasets “are adequate for answering the pressing 20th Century questions of whether climate is changing and if so how. But they are fundamentally ill-conditioned to answer 21st Century questions such as how extremes are changing and therefore what adaptation and mitigation decisions should be taken.”
Those “21st Century questions” are not small and they are very far from cheap. At Copenhagen, wealthy nations were being asked to spend trillions of dollars on answering them, a deal that only fell through when China, India, and other near-developed nations refused to join the mammoth climate-control deal.
The question after the Met Office’s shift in stance may be whether environmentalists eager to move those mountains of cash are also ready to stand down until the 21st century questions get 21st century answers.
=========================
h/t to Dr. Richard North, EU Referendum
“…several stations already have been forbidden from release by the rights’ holders…”
Therefore the data from those stations should be excluded from the analysis as it is not verifiable.
Anything less is just another fraud.
Folks, I understand the reason that everyone is looking on this overture with a jaundiced eye – and rightly so. But this is an amazing opportunity. Given the recent events it shouldn’t take too much too make sure that among those funded for the “rigorous” peer review would be folks like Pielke, Sr., McKitrick, etc. If they use the funding to perform an exhaustive analysis the data including the biases starting with the nearly complete Watts database we should be very confident in the quality of those results – no matter what the results are. And, again, in the current climate, I think it would be EXCEPTIONALLY difficult for the usual suspects to deny publication, as long as the work meets the required quality and is as complete as it should now be possible for such an analysis to be, given adequate funding to support the effort.
rbateman (12:45:06) :
steven mosher (11:39:44) :
I am very concerned with the state of data in the US from 1882 to 1914 for the West Coast.
Doing this right will be a huge task. It could rival the florida recount
I’m available, if there’s a seaside resort involved!
Joking aside, there must / should be an institutionalized “devil’s advocate” division. It will enhance the credibility of the outcome. (This is what the IPCC should have done too. It would have been a wise move in the long run.)
Yep. Let’s get a worldwide real-time weather-monitoring set-up installed.
In order best to understand the language and the coded meanings behind such language as is used by the Met Office one must have lived through the oppressive rule of the UK’s present government (lower case ‘g’ is intentional). The Met’s press release is crafted in the finest socialist doublespeak; the Labour Party has used Orwell’s ‘1984’ as a political Manual of Practice.
Please remember that no-one has risen to any position of power or prestige in any organisation funded by this government without acting to please the government and to back it’s every ill-informed policy proposal. This government had Sir David (Reds under the Beds) King as it’s Chief Scientific Advisor. We now have John Beddington, Professor of Applied Population Biology (what’s that?), who trained as an economist (there’s THAT ‘qualification again) as the country’s leading Scientific Advisor and who just happens to be “an expert in leading green issues”.
The Met has survived by kow-towing to every governmental whim insofar as climate matters have been concerned. It is likely, but not certain, that the incumbent government will soon be replaced. Alas, it will be replaced by another political party which is indistinguishable from the present one other than by the colour of the rosettes they all wear. “Call Me Dave”, the leader of the Conservatives has pledged to continue pouring tax-funded money into the “greening of Britain”.
Despite the apparently fine words and equally fine sentiments emanating from the Met Office, I can assure you that all that will be produced is more of the same. We will NOT get honesty, transparency and access to the ‘raw’ data as promised. Why? Simply because that is what has been promised by the Met Office.
We in Britain have become all too accustomed to lies couched in such ‘robust’ terms.
“The proposed activity would provide:….”
How about this:
“6. A survey of the spatial and temporal dynamics of the temperature field and a demonstration of what is required to comply with the requirements of Shannon’s Sampling Theorem. Data which does not meet these reqirements may not be used for temperature reconstructions.”
Sorry to harp on about it. But there really is an elelphant in the corner, and if nobody is prepared to face up to it, I struggle to see how all the proposed work can be given any credence.
Until we have convincingly determined how to sample it, we cannot trust the digital data to hold sufficient information to reproduce the signal.
So basic … so simple.
Deutche Democratishe Republik….probably not so Democratic
Peoples Republic of China…….probably not the peoples republic
Democratic Republic of the Congo…probably not so Democratic
Rubust data………………………probably not so robust
Raw data………………………….probably not so raw
I read the executive summary. It appears to me they want to be in charge of a new database construction that will prove once and for all that they were correct all along about global warning. Just clean up the presentation under a new name and make it the base of all the other databases.
New face, same old crap.
We have the same thing being presented in the U.S. A new database organization, same people in charge, to prove the same conclusions.
Tell the rubes that WE will fix the problems that they have found, give it a new face and con them for a few more years and a lot more money.
No one that had any management control should have anything to do with a new database as they are proved to be ether incompatant or cheats.
RockyRoad (09:50:13): Re: ‘In climate science as in mining, raw data is the key.’
Yes, raw-data, not ‘adjusted’ raw-data. Confirming ‘raw-data’ requires the confirmation of a documented chain of custody of the data.
Remember Bre-X?
Bre-X was a group of companies in Canada. A major part of the group, Bre-X Minerals Ltd. based on Calgary, was involved in a major gold mining scandal when it was reported to be sitting on an enormous gold deposit at Busang, Indonesia (on Borneo). Bre-X bought the Busang site in March 1993 and in October 1995 announced significant amounts of gold had been discovered, sending its stock price soaring. Originally a penny stock, its stock price reached a peak at CAD $286.50 on the Toronto Stock Exchange (TSX), with a total capitalization of over CAD $6 billion. Bre-X Minerals collapsed in 1997 after the gold samples were found to be a fraud.
Exposure of the fraud
On March 26 the American firm Freeport-McMoRan, a prospective partner in developing Busang, announced that its own due-diligence core samples showed ‘insignificant amounts of gold’. A frenzied sell-off of shares ensued and Suharto postponed signing the mining deal. Bre-X demanded more reviews and commissioned a review of the test drilling. Results were not favorable to them, and on April 1, Bre-X refused to comment. David Walsh blamed the whole affair on web ‘ghost writers’ who had spread rumors on the Internet and damaged the company’s reputation. Canadian gold analyst Egizio Bianchini considered the rumors ‘preposterous’. A third-party independent company, Strathcona Minerals, was brought in to make its own analysis. They published their results on May 4: the Busang ore samples had been salted with gold dust. The lab’s tests showed that gold in one hole had been shaved off gold jewelry though it has never been proved at what stage this gold had been added to those samples. This gold also occurs in quantities that do not support the actual original assays.
—
“David Walsh blamed the whole affair on web ‘ghost writers’ who had spread rumors on the Internet and damaged the company’s reputation”
“Canadian gold analyst Egizio Bianchini considered the rumors ‘preposterous’”
“A third-party independent company, Strathcona Minerals, was brought in to make its own analysis.”
—
Now substitute heat for gold; the CRU for Bre-X; The BBC for David Walsh; the IPCC for Egizio Bianchin; and Climate Audit for Strathcona Minerals.
Sound familiar?
Rhys Jaggar (08:36:05) :
Perhaps, Mr Watts, you should tender with a few other ‘independent practicioners’ to ensure ‘appropriate amounts of independent monitoring’?
Seems to me that there is a role for:
1. Monitoring and grading current stations.
2. Determining optimal location and frequency of stations.
3. Installing new stations according to global best practice.
4. Monitoring data collection methods and execution.
=============================================
is it possible to plot a global map of stations for all to use – as a google earth map – that will highlight the gaping holes of missing stations as well as creating a reference point of how far apart stations are in a region. Local knowledge can then play a part is spotting excessive variations. Just a thought…..
The Fox link seems broken. No text on the page.
I used google to find the page and this came up. With the article.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/23/britains-weather-office-proposes-climategate/
Your link:
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/02/23/britains-weather-office-proposes-climate-gate/
hyphenates climategate.
Yup. The word “rigorous” is as banal as “robust”. Both laughable, only more so now since “Return to Almora”. I can’t get THAT juxtaposition out of my head. What were those turkeys doing at the seaside resort?
Anyone able to put up on the web the Monty Python Dead Parrot Sketch? I think that might be appropriate somehow.
“PROPOSAL FOR A NEW INTERNATIONAL ANALYSIS OF LAND SURFACE AIR
TEMPERATURE DATA
Submitted by UK Met Office
Executive summary
Surface temperature datasets are of critical importance for detecting, monitoring and communicating climate change. They are also essential for testing the validity of the climate models that are used to produce predictions of future climate change.”
Interpretation
We got to justify the 2.5 Amplification number one way or another.
Found it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ01218
Want to be that they’ll do the process the wrong way? They’ll try to create the whole thing before unveiling it, instead of starting by making the raw data available and letting us monitor the code in SVN, along with documentation, as they build the system, and have suitable comment tools from the outside world.
I am reading through the comments and snorting as often as just smiling.
Much redundancy in the following, and pardons to any and all whose comments I repeat:
1. Yes, starting over from scratch is THE right thing to do. Jones et al should consider this a slap in the face. It clearly says, “We have seen enough that we won’t be able to shut anybody up without doing this right. Now WHERE in the HELL did you put all this crap?”
2. It is clear that the emails and the subsequent brouhaha are having an effect. Those who say, “WE WON!” are not entirely incorrect. “We have had an effect,” would be more like it.
3. If they FIND all the data, then it wasn’t lost, after all.
4. Like the New Zealand Parliament exchange the other day, “We DO want to see the schedule of the adjustments made.” THAT WILL BE HUGE. THESE ARE COMPLETELY CHALLENGE-ABLE. We will win on UHI adjustments, even if it takes a long process. That alone will drop the forecasts, once it is seen that the current adjustment schedule(s) are inadequately allowing for this.
5. Gaps in the met stations – and the referencing of them to nearby stations (pegging urban ones to rural ones, for example – should be revealed. (The Antarctica situation should be totally addressable, too.)
6. If independent means someone besides CRU tackles it, then the processing – in a transparent and well-documented and well-archived process – cannot be any worse. As long as Mann is not involved there won’t be able to be any “hiding the decline.” If the usual suspects are included, expect it to be less than it could be.
7. Recall that lots of climatologists and meteorologists who were intimidated before are not intimidated anymore. Their voices will be heard loud and clear, if and when less than due diligence is followed.
8. Listen folks, they won’t be able to hide behind, “The dog ate my homework,” anymore. We will know WHAT databases are included. We will know which algorithms are being used. We will know which adjustments are applied. AND THEY WILL KNOW THIS TIME THAT SOMEONE IS WATCHING. Jones et al for the last 20 years has operated as if everyone else was idiots; Mann thought he could intimidate everyone into submission. It will be a whole new ballgame.
9.
THAT IS A WIN, FOLKS. Even the Met Office sees the huge holes in what was being done, and that the peer review process broke down.
10. The five proposed activities essentially spell out the scientific method which should have been used in the original work, and if followed will likely, after all voices are heard, produce adjusted data that shows the warming (which is real) to be much smaller than Jones et al and Mann et al produced.
11. If Hockey Stick Team members are allowed to participate, we would all like to be flies on the wall when they:
– Try to find their data, with others looking on
– Try to justify their cherry picking of data to others
– Try to justify their low UHI adjustments (ALL of which should, in itself, be peer reviewed)
– Try to explain their algorithms and stepped met station movement adjutments
12. This – in spite of all the caveats and bows to the existing keepers of the databases – is what should have been done back in 1988.
I’ve gone on long enough, especially for someone who isn’t a stat man or meteorologist/climatologist.
A very old AGW video, with the CRU crew;
Gidday Anthony, I do not think you are right to say “..GHCN (source for GISS and HadCRUT)..”.
Also- we are talking land data in these great issues – so the “Had” which refers to SST can be left off too. It is a fact that CRUT was generated in the 1980’s before GHCN was published.
I am not aware that in later Jones et al iterations with increased station numbers – that they ever turned to GHCN data. I do know that in recent years as Jones/CRU have come under pressure to release data – they have used this excuse saying in effect, “..go and get the GHCN to work with, it is public..”.
I can assure you that analysing the GHCN will not get you within a country mile of understanding the poor science that has riddled the Jones et al compilations from the 1980’s.
I suppose there might be a few cases of CRU station data being EXACTLY the same month by month as a GHCN version. I have never come across one – if anybody ever finds any examples, please let me know.
REPLY; Well as I’ve seen it, based on the station lists provided, most of the GHCN stations (they few that are left) are in the CRU set also. – Anthony
“They were probably at the meeting(s) referenced here:
http://www.gewex.org/gewex_meetings.html ”
Over 60 climate-related conferences this year alone! It takes a lot of CO2 spuming jets to spend all those billions of dollars, euros and pounds.
“We feel that it is timely to propose an international effort to reanalyze surface temperature data”
Verifiable datasets starting from a common databank of unrestricted data
Ah, reanalyze. Not a databank of raw records as transcribed from original sources and supplementary information where available? The databank to be “reanalyzed” every few years, one presumes, so that after a decade nobody can ever re-construct prior sub-sets except in spirit. Sounds a bit familiar.
What is wrong with these people? What do they have against one single open source of RAW data that everybody can work from? Can you imagine Historians accepting a system where all original sources were locked away safely but you could work from any of the approved standard 10 volumes of “summary” publicly available. Just as a bonus history changes in subtle ways with each new release.
Welcome to the information age – much like other ages but faster.
How about this basic system outline – Jones et al 2017 create their data set “on the fly” from a standard bank of RAW data.
.. The sub-set used came from RAW using the SQL query …”SELECT * FROM monthly_mean WHERE … ”
.. After homogenisation [specific details here] We then applied the First difference method [Peterson 98] [implementation code (FORTRAN) available here] ….
Then in 2100 some poor soul could accurately replicate the entire paper without FOI requests or trying to find a reasonable replica of the data sets used or trying to figure out if there was an error in the code.
While I welcome the effort in principle, the whole thing sounds [admittedly – from the very basic outline available] like a very long way to get exactly where we are now.
___________________________________________________________
Through collaboration with NCDC we have two quality controlled, but not homogenized products at the daily and sub-daily resolution (HadGHCND and HadlSD – the latter about to be submitted to peer review), spanning 1950 onwards and 1973 onwards respectively.
My ears pricked up at this one until reaching the last sentence. Hm .. any particular reason to choose 1950 as your start date?
They just can’t stop themselves.
Take the climate zone Meacham, Oregon sits in (up high and in a bowl) and adjust all other similarly situated monitors and we will get nothing but freezing your butt off temps. Let’s hope they ask a weather man how to do this grid by grid “fill in” business. And let’s hope they ask those that have determined our agricultural climate zones how to do this. But forget railroad engineers. Not that I don’t like them. The crew that works the railroad around Wallowa County are swell guys. They are our local drinkin buddies most Friday nights at the Lostine Tavern and readily admit they don’t know a damn thing about the science behind weather or climate. But they know lots and lots about trains, and they eat red meat. Lots and lots of red meat. But veggies, not so much. My kinda guy.
As I posted at Cimate Audit:
http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/cso/data_rescue_signal_corps_annual_reports.html
for “official” U.S. location/temperature reports from
1861 – 1942.
None of the major data sets have bothered to use this huge body
of data.
REPLY: There was no standardized thermometer exposure before about 1892 when the Stevenson Screen was put into use. Thus early data is suspect unless the Signal Corp has some system I’m unfamiliar with.
Does the RAW data still exist?
DaveE.
Philip Foster (15:02:02) :
Found what?
How about a link to the video vice a link to a page of videos.