There’s plenty of stories about how Arctic sea ice is now “rotten”. There’s darn few that talk about yearly comparisons or what other scientific outlets are saying about the claim.
As many WUWT readers know, 2007 was the minimum year of summer extent in sea ice, a year that is routinely held up as a cause for alarm. Another cause for alarm has been the “decline of multi-year sea ice”. Most recently we’ve gotten claims of “rotten ice” in the news media. That “rotten” ice is “duping the satellites” they say. This all from one fellow, Dr. David Barber on a ship that took a short expedition in the Arctic and observed what he called “rotten ice”. Here’s Dr. Barber using the poster child for sea ice loss in a presentation.
Seems that his “rotten” message resonated, even the media in Alaska (who can observe sea ice on their own) are saying it: New study: Arctic ice is rotten (Anchorage Daily News)
Over at the Greenbang Blog, they say that: ‘Rotten’ sea ice creates false impression of Arctic recovery
They cite:
Satellite data in 2008 and 2009 appeared to indicate that Arctic sea ice cover had started to grow again after reaching a record low, leading some to claim that global warming was reversing. However, University of Manitoba researcher David Barber found that wasn’t the case after he viewed the ice firsthand this September from an ice breaker travelling through the southern Beaufort Sea.
What the satellites had identified as thick, multiyear ice, it turned out, was in fact thin, “rotten” ice, Barber and his colleagues discovered.
This apparently was the conclusion from watching Dr. Barber’s YouTube video:
You can read Barber’s study here (Word DOC file)
So if the satellites are “duped” into seeing more ice than actually exists, then 2007 ice must have been really, really, rotten:
Compare for yourself, here.
Looks like it has firmed up since then. So no matter how you spin it, there has indeed been improvement in sea ice in 2007. Going from “really, really rotten” in 2007 to simply “rotten” Arctic sea ice in 2009 is definitely an improvement.
One other note, if this “rotten ice” problem and satellite duping proposed by Dr. Barber is in fact real, I’d fully expect that the National Snow and Ice Data Center (NSIDC) would make some sort of announcement or post a caveat about it on the “Arctic Sea Ice News and analysis” web page where they present the satellite data. I couldn’t find anything on that page about “rotten ice” or satellite data being inaccurate.
Looking further, I used a Google search for “rotten” within NSIDC’s web site (available from their search tool in the upper right of their web page) reveals no recent documents or web pages using that word. Odd.
OK maybe Cryosphere Today? Nope nothing there either.
JAXA‘s sea ice page? Their News page? Not a peep.
Nansen’s Arctic ROOS sea ice page? Or their news page? All quiet on the Arctic front.
Maybe the Danish Meteorological Institute (in Copenhagen no less) sea ice page? Surely, something must be “rotten” in Denmark, no? Alas, they don’t mention it either.
Gosh, the Arctic ice is rotten, the satellites are duped, and none of the major scientific organzations that track sea ice have anything to say about it?
It seems Dr. Barber’s conclusions are being left out in the cold by his peers.
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nice polar bear in the slide show behind the rotten ice guru …
It must be true. According to TVNZ breakfast news, Al Gore has just said that there will be no Arctic ice in five years (or something).
Bartender!……this ice is rotten! WhooooWe… my bar stool
feels like it’s going 13 knots.
Previous topic;
“Steve Oregon (09:55:27) :
What’s going on?
I’d like to know what’s going on at RealClimate?”
We really need something like this to challenge RealClimate.
Tool to Break the Divide of the Left Right Paradigm.
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/118836
Seems to me that a few of the bloggers here should have been in Copenhagen to ask these questions on camera to the purveyor of rotten news…..
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve sat through presentations over the last 20 years by Joey Comiso or Don Cavalieri on how they classify sea ice. One thing that is obvious is that there is some percentage of mis-classification that goes with any ice cover/type retrieval effort…it’s unavoidable.
If someone goes out in a boat, it is not surprising that what they see around them is going to be different from a 30×30 km satellite footprint, especially when the whole footprint can be misdiagnosed. Most (but not all) of these mis-classification errors are averaged out over the entire Arctic Ocean.
It stands to reason that the ice must be rotten, all of it.
I mean, it’s well past it’s thaw by date, isn’t it!
The Arctic Sea Ice is not just rotten, it’s denialist. There’s no other way to say it.
O/T
Head of IPCC conflict of interest.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/jamesdelingpole/100019821/climategate-with-business-interests-like-these-are-we-really-sure-dr-rajendra-pachauri-is-fit-to-head-the-ipcc/
Solar wind has remained excessively low for a while now.
Solar wind
speed: 284.9 km/sec
density: 4.4 protons/cm3
http://spaceweather.com/
@ur momisugly Jeff (11:27:46) :
nice polar bear in the slide show behind the rotten ice guru …
Too bad he didn’t get off the ship to shake hands. Polar bears are the only bears that stalk and eat humans as food. From his picture, he would make a dinner for quite a few of them.
Right. So if the satellite signature of multi-year and so-called “rotten” sea ice is so similar, how much validity can the older (70’s) satellite photos have? Is there actual measurement data from on-site? And what is the research on this “thin” rotten ice that also happens to be 8 feet thick? Has this ice existed before? Is it part of a natural recovery? Did they mess the recovery up by plowing through it? I think this only confuses things, it doesn’t seem to support either hypothesis yet. Oh, there are so many questions!
I only have a B.A., will somebody clue me in?
So, whys it called an “ice age”?
“Because-of -all-the Ice!”
My, things certainly got a whole lot chillier in here…..
Im starting to get seriously fatigued with all this hysterical global warming codswallop!
What i want most of all is another ice age, just to shut these fools up with.
Roy Spencer (11:31:28) :
Am I mistaken when I assume that rotten ice is ice that survived the melt season and now has flaws in it?
It would seem that more ice surviving long enough to become rotten is a good thing, yes?
A couple of comments after listening to that video:
1. He says he has NEVER encountered such ice before in all his 20 years. Now is that due to lack of sufficient ice experience, (on the “ground” so to speak or on the sea if you will), or is that sort of sea ice very rare?
2. He says that the satellite information was different to that on the ground. It would have been useful to present satellite sea ice concentration snaps of that area, with his photos on the “ground”. I wonder if someone here could do that?
Dr Spencers explanation above might explain any discrepancies.
Does a beard make one deceitful, or do dissemblers acquire beards?
Its just a trend that I have noticed.
The ice is going to be gone in 5 years, according to Al Gore. Because of human activity, specifically, carbon emissions. So what does Al Gore do? Jumps on a jet and flies to Copenhagen to scream the sky is falling. Meanwhile, I’m sitting here using very little carbon. What is wrong with this picture?
Jim B in Canada (10:08:51) :
So now more ice is actually less ice,
global cooling is global warming and
the people who scream repent world is going to end! are now the sane ones.
They have no idea of what genuine repentance is if it means starving people “to save the earth”.
I have read nearly the entire Bible and find that it opposes centralized power ( see 1 Samuel 8) but have yet to find “Thou shall not burn carbon”. I also read that it condemns fraud, theft and oppression of the poor, the basis of our current money and banking system.
Isn’t it obvious? Rotten ice comes from too many conservatives and Sarah Palin lovers up in Alaska that are simply too close to the Artic ice. I know it is all Sarah’s fault somehow, probably all the laundry detergent she is using washing her million $ wardrobe which leaks into the environment.
“Ix-nay on the otten-ray.”
— Young Frankenstein
Dave F (11:24:50) :
Sorry “to” not “too”. Personal peeve of mine, and I can’t believe I just did it myself.
Don’t feel two bad.
The Anchorage Daily News is owned by McClatchy and has a very pronounced liberal bias. They do very little of their own reporting up here.
Patrick M; A most execelent summary of the situation.
The Ice is Going to Break – The Dead Zone
PS those Cryosphere snaps left me thunderstruck for a second. Why cant americans learn how to write their dates logically? The day comes before the month then the year