Mann throws Jones under the bus

It has started – the infighting begins in the court of public opinion.

Climategate: Phil Jones accused of making error of judgment by colleague

Here’s an excerpt:

One of the scientists to whom the emails were addressed, Professor Michael Mann, the Director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University has moved to distance himself from some of the comments in the emails that suggest scientists did not want the IPCC, the UN body charged with monitoring climate change, to consider studies that challenged the view global warming was genuine and man-made.

Speaking to BBC Radio 4’s The World Tonight, Prof Mann said: “I can’t put myself in the mind of the person who wrote that email and sent it. I in no way endorse what was in that email.”

Prof Mann also said he could not “justify” a request from Prof Jones that he should delete some of his own emails to prevent them from being seen by outsiders.

“I can’t justify the action, I can only speculate that he was feeling so under attack that he made some poor decisions frankly and I think that’s clear.”

Prof Mann then argued however that there was “absolutely no evidence” that he too had manipulated data, while he also said “I don’t believe that any of my colleagues have done that”.

Complete story here at the Telegraph:

Climategate: Phil Jones accused of making error of judgment by colleague

h/t to Kate at SDA

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Phillip Bratby
Third Party

PSU can’t (won’t) discuss the issue wrt Mann because they started an investigation, but Mann is free to dig his hole deeper?

Tom

These guys are frightened, and they should be. Jone, Mann et. al. have been perpetrating a massive fraud. They, the media who have and continue to protect them, and the politicians who willingly suspend disbelief should be ripped to shreds in the public square.
What they have done is indefensible. It is indefensible.

lowercasefred

I gotta go buy some more popcorn.

Tim S.

Popping my popcorn right now…

Mark Wagner

Ah…a scandal develops….

Bruce Cobb

Trouble in AGW Paradise?

KeithGuy

“Prof Mann then argued however that there was “absolutely no evidence” that he too had manipulated data…”
YOU MUST BE KIDDING!!

Richard K

e tu Brute?

slide2112

“The smoke comming out of that gun is real but it wasn’t my gun”

jorgekafkazar

Jones should not go down for this by himself. The emails are crystal clear. There was a group working in concert to promote AGW and stifle dissenting views. Inability to prove their theoretical concept valid in the field resulted in fabricating false proofs: fudge factors, data mining, cherry picking, ersatz global models, and so on. But their worst lie was the claim of consensus. They should all be castigated for that in particular.

MikeN

Read the e-mails. The other guys don’t like Mann.
‘I think I’m going to vomit.’

Henry chance

Mann is still on his ego trip.
If he had any good judgement, he would keep quiet. This endeavor on his part may backfire. He also Will find Jones may counter attack him. Mann needs to take a time out and go to Siberia and look at some tree rings on a field trip.
He will need a lot more tree rings. He also needs some cooler tree rings from the Midevil warm period. Mannipulate the Mid-evil period soon before you get investigated.

SandyInDerby

It’s like a crime drama on TV. “Common Jonesy your mate in the other cell says you did it. Unless you come clean you’re going down for a long stretch!”

James Sexton

Given the tone(casual) of some of the e-mails, I’d say Mann is being a little disingenuous. I’d really like a peek at some of his. Perhaps in the Senate hearings but I’d imagine by now, Mann has deleted his incriminating ones. Of course, servers have backups and archives…….

Richard

Its common for criminals caught in the act to accuse each other to try and save their own skins.

lowercasefred

As far as “cherry picking” is concerned there is a significant difference between someone “cherry picking” data to prove a theory and another person who picks instances that disprove a theory.
“Exceptio probat regnum.” The exception probes (tests) the rule.
(not “the exception proves the rule” because the modern meaning of “prove” has become to show truth)
It really gets my goat when these frauds accuse sceptics of “cherry picking” when they are pointing out failures in their theories. That is not “cherry picking”, that is science.

Richard111

Now he has our undivided attention all he needs to do is release all his data and computer programs to the world and we will all see he is innocent of any wrong doing.
[/sarc]

Pingo

“I can only speculate that he was feeling so under attack that he made some poor decisions”
Those nasty sceptics trying to get him to release his data so the science can be verified.

J Thomason

If Mann considers this request so beyond the pale, then he MUST have let Jones know at the time, right? While I can certainly grant that it’s human nature to not want to inform on a friend/colleague, I would think that at a bare minimum (as a ‘respected’ scientist) he should be expected to respond saying that he will not be deleting any E-mails and that such a practice is highly inappropriate and possibly illegal.

Mann was implicated in the cover-up … he initiated it.
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2009/11/hiding-decline.html

Gary Palmgren

“Prof Mann then argued however that there was “absolutely no evidence” that he too had manipulated data”
I beg to differ. Evidence of flight can be used against someone accused of a crime even though running away in itself is not a crime. Hiding data and methods in itself is not proof of fraud, but it is evidence. In this case it is a necessary condition for fraud. If Mann had released his data and methods including that data he had but did not use, there would be no suggestion that he was involved in climategate.

Brent Matich

Let the games begin!
Brent in Calgary

In now time the HOCKEY STICKs will be flying all over ICE rink. I am looking forward to the spectacle.

wobble

It’s time for Penn State to save it’s reputation and throw Mann under the bus.
They could previously claim ignorance. They don’t have that excuse anymore.

Jerry

What I find amazing is the charge, repeated once again by Mann, that skeptics wish to influence climate change related policy decisions for their own benefit. From the Telegraph article:
“Prof Mann said he believed the incident “false controversy” manufactured by sceptics “to distract the public and to distract policy-makers to try to thwart efforts next week in Copenhagen”. ”
It reads like they believe that skeptics know or suspect that AGW is real but wish to stand in the way of actions that would fix the problem anyway.
The truth is that skeptics live on this planet too and want to make it as pleasant a place to live as anyone. We just don’t believe the reality of AGW has yet been proven. And until it is we see no good reason to take actions that would have an immense negative impact on the global economy.
Skeptical scientists and others have been asking for access to data and data processing computer code for a decade now in an attempt to confirm or deny the reality of AGW and at every turn the AGW crowd has fought this.
Why?

I guess Mann forgot about this
http://www.eastangliaemails.com/emails.php?eid=891&filename=1212063122.txt
Hi Phil,
laughable that CA would claim to have discovered the problem. They would
have run off to the Wall Street Journal for an exclusive were that to
have been true.
I’ll contact Gene about this ASAP. His new email is: generwahl@xxxxxxxxx.xxx
talk to you later,
mike
Phil Jones wrote:
>
>> Mike,
> Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
> Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis.
>
> Can you also email Gene and get him to do the same? I don’t
> have his new email address.
>
> We will be getting Caspar to do likewise.
>
> I see that CA claim they discovered the 1945 problem in the Nature
> paper!!
>
> Cheers
> Phil
>

Mark Wagner

Emails are interesting in that they point to intent, but they alone are not proof. Media will continue to make light of the emails as “insubstantial,” and rightly so.
Media won’t pick it up until a scandal develops. It won’t be a scandal until there’s evidence pointing to purposeful manipulation of the temperature record. This evidence will be found only in the computer code.
Over half of the released documents were computer code.
Every blog, news site, personal conversation, email to your elected representative, or post, keep the focus on the computer code. We’ve already seen evidence of manipulation in parts of it. There’s more. It must be uncovered by analysis of what’s released, and working to ensure the release of the remainder via whatever (legal) means necessary: media request, FOI, congressional subpoena.
KEEP WORKING THE CODE

Ron de Haan

Prof Mann then argued however that there was “absolutely no evidence” that he too had manipulated data, while he also said “I don’t believe that any of my colleagues have done that”.
This is what I call a “laughable statement”.

mikey

Let the the back-stabbing begin!
I have a faint hope that one or two of Mann’s or Jones’s colleagues will break rank, and start singing if they think the proverbial poo is going to hit the fan.
Though a sceptic based on the fact sceince is not absolute, i never actually thought there was a grand conspiracy. I am really wondering about it now.
What i find as alarming as the CRU emails is how much of the media is gaming the reporting in a totally unambiguous way. Its like they dont care how biased and dishonest they look any more.
It makes me feel sick thinking our society is this morally and intellectually dishonest.

Michael Peterson

Wait until somebody starts to investigate the infractions under the FOI legislation and we start hearing about enforcement actions. Then we will really see the guns being turned inwards and find out who deleted what. If the police found that the Wall St. guys “rolled” much more easily than the Mob, how long will it take before a crew of academics start to offer evidence against the others in exchange for a deal? At least the Wall St. guys have some experience with tough negotiations. The FOI prosecutors will have the deal negotiated and papered by noon on Day 1.

Jerry

And I went to Penn State too, dammit!

snowmaneasy

I may be a late on this one but has anyone seen this and commented on it….
I cannot believe it…
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v462/n7273/pdf/462545a.pdf

Michael Jankowski

Call me a different kind of skeptic, if you will…I think PSU will clear him of any wrong-doing and that he is banking on using that as his eternal declaration of innocence.

Stacey

@AJStrata
Mike,
> Can you delete any emails you may have had with Keith re AR4?
> Keith will do likewise. He’s not in at the moment – minor family crisis
End of part post
In the report above Professor Mann says Prof Mann also said he could not “justify” a request from Prof Jones that he should delete some of his own emails to prevent them from being seen by outsiders.
Then no doubt he repsonde appropriately and would like to share his response with the wider world.
Unreal Climate seems to be treating Professor Jones like a leper? No articles re the resignation no support?
Have I been moderated today? On another post?

JP

Much will depend upon what Penn St lawyer’s think. If there is an inkling that they will face legal exposure, they will have to make a decision whether Dr Mann will be a financial liability. Civil suits have a way of uncovering all sorts of embarrassing and questionable behavior. Federal investigation have begun on much less material. This entire mess has the potential to do bring the entire AGW industry to its knees.

Mann’s ego is only surpassed by his incompetence. He will be the last to surrender. I would watch Schmidt and Wigley, because they are much more exposed to federal rules and guidelines. They have no place to hide.

Reed Coray

[ snip ]

darwin

“Prof Mann then argued however that there was “absolutely no evidence” that he too had manipulated data, while he also said “I don’t believe that any of my colleagues have done that”.”
Wow! He’s obviously a pathogical liar as well. Didn’t McIntyre catch him outright with his “hockey stick” graph?

PAguy

Fortunately for Dr. Mann, Penn State main campus has low carbon footprint buses powered by natural gas.
Being thrown under such a bus would be an honor.

PhilW

Found this side door round at the BBC. Might be worth giving the moderators stool a kick…. or two
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/talking_point/8375378.stm

Peter S

This small, tightly-knit group were never friends – they were accomplices. It will be no surprise, as their project unravels, that they start to attack each other.
Listening to Mann on several of his recent interviews, it is possible to discern a shake in his voice. Outside of the tax-funded, cock-sure collusion of the laboratory, it may be that the seriousness of what they were doing is beginning to dawn on Mann. It may also be a tell-tale sign of his guilt.

JonesII

It seems he doesn’t want to resign as instructed by his patrons.
As Piers Corbyn said yesterday about Phil Jones’ step aside:
“This is a token intended to enable a coverup of the shameful suppression of differing science and the hiding of data on world cooling by those in charge of this data”
http://www.scribd.com/doc/23595663

Richard deSousa

Fair is fair… Jones threw GISS under the bus so Mann is retaliating… LOL

Grumbler

Classic ‘Prisoners dilemma’ – well known ethics/game theory study.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma
cheers David

Lokki

Please be sure to send a copy of that email to the President of Penn State.
He may not see it otherwise, and I’m sure he’d be interested… Oh, and be sure to CC the Washington Times et al on your email

PaulH

It’s hard to believe in 2009 (almost 2010) that these allegedly intelligent people don’t understand how email works. You can delete email from your own personal store, but one or more copies will continue to exist on one or more servers (archive, backup, audit, whatever) somewhere within the organization.
Not only are they boneheads for conspiring to delete email, they are doubly-boneheaded to think it was possible to do so!

DD More

With the count of these guys fudging data they will soon need this bus to get over everyone under it.
http://www.travelpod.com/travel-photo/zigdog1/1/1218153600/cool-canadian-ice-bus.jpg/tpod.html#

Reed Coray

Sorry about that. I couldn’t resist. I’ll try not to do that again.

Varco

BBC1 6pm news just ran a piece on Climategate, mentioned Saudi concerns about what Climategate means for climate science and Copenhagen…