Ripples of Climategate? Liberal MP's desert Turnbull in Australia over emissions trading scheme

Wow, Australia’s parliament just imploded over discord due to emissions trading scheme being pushed by opposition leader Malcolm Turnbull (website here). Here’s the news from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation:

click image for the news story

Pretty heavy stuff when Liberal MP’s resign rather than vote for a cap and trade scheme. The vote seems rather difficult now.

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

166 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
November 26, 2009 6:31 am

If there was a vote in the U.S. Senate, today (there isn’t, thankfully), likely something similar would happen (mutiny among Democratic senators).
Fortunately, among senate Republicans there are only a handful of individuals who might’ve voted (sen. Lindsey Graham, R – S.C.) for cap & trade — now — those votes are questionable at best.
“Implosion” is the best descriptive for what has happened to the politics of AGW.

Editor
November 26, 2009 6:39 am

Robinson (01:50:23) :
> A quick question: is Joanne Nova a media personality in Aus, or just a blogger?
I believe both, well, not “just” a blogger. She and David Evans are married Excerpts from http://joannenova.com.au/about/ and http://joannenova.com.au/about/biog/:
In the last two years Joanne has focused on the science of monetary systems, financial history, the gold market, and has also become heavily involved in communicating the science of carbon’s role in Climate Change. Joanne attended the UNFCCC in Bali Dec 07 as a delegate, has spoken in New York at the International Climate Change Conference, and to Staffers of the US Senate in Washington, as well as to Australian leaders of business and banking at Consilium, for the Centre for Independent Studies.
On Radio
For two years Joanne talked each week on 2CN in Canberra as well as other stations in country WA, Geelong, Brisbane. In the five minute prime-time spot she discussed the news and science of things like sperm, cooking, health and sleep. Joanne once filled in for the ever popular Dr Karl Kruszelnicki on ABC stations around Australia.
Qualifications
Joanne Nova finished her Bachelor of Science degree with first class honours, A+ grades and both the FH Faulding, and The Swan Brewery Prizes, at the University of Western Australia. She majored in Microbiology, Molecular Biology and doing honours research into DNA markers for use in Muscular Dystrophy trials. She also has a Graduate Certificate in Science Communication from the ANU, and worked for three years as an Associate Lecturer for the Graduate Diploma in Science Communication program at the Australian National University.

Mr Enough
November 26, 2009 6:48 am

Iren (00:44:48) :
Turnbull is ex Goldman Sachs and once in Goldman, forever in Goldman.
Goldman are going into Carbon tradeing big time see this
http://green.venturebeat.com/2008/02/26/apx-takes-funding-as-carbon-markets-gain-credence/
Google Goldman carbon trading and you’ll get loads of hits.
Also read Matt Taibbi’s wonderful hit job on Goldman in Rolling Stone Mag, which ends by talking about how much money they hope to make from Carbon trading…….
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/28816321/inside_the_great_american_bubble_machine

Editor
November 26, 2009 6:54 am

P Gosselin (02:03:42) :

Question:
I heard that 160 MB of data were taken, yet only 60 MB have been released so far.

You may be confused about the .zip file and the contents. Breaking things down a few ways, my system reports:
tux:FOIA> du -hs *
4.0K check.py
159M documents
62M FOI2009.zip
9.8M mail
tux:FOIA> du -hs documents/*
5.4M documents/080214_SUNYA_draft.pdf
168K documents/080222_ZMZeng_Inputs.pdf
60K documents/Adam budget.doc
104K documents/ADAM second-order draft.pdf
2.8M documents/AR4SOR_BatchAB_Ch06-KRB-1stAug.doc
40K documents/A Report of the Successful Grant Writing Meeting 22 Nov 2000.doc
8.0K documents/briffa-keigwin.email.txt
48M documents/briffa-treering-external
52K documents/circ_inconsistency.doc
1.5M documents/communicating_cc.pdf
32M documents/cru-code
308K documents/CRU-COF_Report.pdf
24K documents/CRU-sr-external-input.pdf
36K documents/CRU strategic review agenda 1.doc
7.6M documents/defra.pdf
52K documents/ECLAT2.doc
12K documents/EMULATE-corrections
2.7M documents/EURO4M_DoW_v2.doc
72K documents/Extreme2100.pdf
76K documents/extremes.wp
128K documents/Fisher.txt
56K documents/fundingcomments.doc
4.0K documents/greenpeace.txt
505K documents/hadcrut3_gmr+defra_report_200503.pdf
221K documents/harris-tree
705K documents/HARRY_READ_ME.txt
416K documents/hot-proposal.doc
84K documents/ianh-greenpeace-ships.jpg
1.9M documents/idl_cruts3_2005_vs_2008b.pdf
4.0K documents/ipcc-santer2.txt
40K documents/ipcc-tar-master2.rtf
40K documents/ipcc-tar-master.rtf
24K documents/jones-foiathoughts.doc
3.2M documents/kbmisc
5.3M documents/kbtree
5.9M documents/krbfshi2.doc
32K documents/letter to Mike – 13.10.06.doc
36K documents/magicc-tomike.doc
132K documents/MannHouseReply.pdf
324K documents/Mann uncertainty.doc
56K documents/mannuncert.txt
116K documents/marooned.jpg
14M documents/mbh98-osborn.zip
4.0K documents/mkhadcrut
712K documents/osborn-tree3
198K documents/osborn-tree4
508K documents/osborn-tree5
2.8M documents/osborn-tree6
24K documents/pdj_grant_since1990.xls
28K documents/potential-funding.doc
60K documents/prescient.doc
68K documents/RAPID-briffa-description-16jul.doc
28K documents/review_mannetal.doc
32K documents/Review of Wahl&Amman.doc
28K documents/Review-Santer-et-al-2008.doc
32K documents/review_schmidt.doc
296K documents/RulesOfTheGame.pdf
32K documents/santer-etal2008review03052008.doc
24K documents/SanteretalSciencereview.doc
36K documents/sealevel_params.doc
2.7M documents/Skagerrak-Foram-2010.doc
4.1M documents/SOAP
104K documents/TC Research Funding.doc
24K documents/tdutch.pdf
20K documents/tims contracts.xls
116K documents/trend_profiles_dogs_dinner.png
140K documents/tyndall-targets.doc
6.1M documents/uea-models.ppt
24K documents/uea-tyndall-shell-memo.doc
32K documents/unit-proposal.doc
1.6M documents/volc.doc
6.3M documents/yamal
This is disk space used, a little higher than bytes of data. (Think of the empty space at the bottom of the last page of a book or other document.)
check.py is mine (a program to look ar To: and From: lines in Email looking for who are in the loop and looking for Emails that don’t list UEA in the lists).
A lot of file in documents may have been attachments to Emails, I may look into that later today. Most files without extensions (e.g. documents/cru-code are directories with a lot of other stuff, like the code described in Poor Harry’s Diary.)

November 26, 2009 7:03 am

Looks like it’s all falling apart.
No matter what anybody says, the climate data sets are so polluted with crap, they are worthless for any real science.
Next time, try open science.

Gary Pearse
November 26, 2009 7:07 am

Any Aussies here should send links to the rest of the Liberal MPs in case climategate hasn’t crossed their desks.

Mike UK
November 26, 2009 7:15 am
Editor
November 26, 2009 7:21 am

Geoff C (00:18:08) :
“so he (Rudd) can fulfill his duel ambition of being let onto the UN security council, and one day being the head of the UN. Don’t let him, please, US voters.”
LOL, theres a clause in the UN Charter that barrs citizens of any nation sitting on the Security Council from becoming General Secretary of the UN, which is intended to prevent any SC member from gaining too much power. So Rudd can have one or the other but only UNSG first THEN SC for AU after….

Editor
November 26, 2009 7:33 am

Gregg E. (00:46:39) :
“It always strikes me as an odd thing in so many countries where a batch of politicians will just up and quit or withdraw from an election when things get tough. How can they affect (or effect) things when they *quit*?”
Mass resignations are intended to confer illegitimacy upon the rump organization that is left, to force a crisis in party or in government. In some governments, if you get enough resignations, the rump that is left is less than a quorum and the government is unable to function, which forces new elections, or in the case of the US government, would put us in a situation akin to the beginning of the US Civil War, when the southern states walked out of congress, leaving a rump unable to pass legislation legally. Lincoln and the rump congress (the republicans and a few democrats) violated the constitution in passing legislation but did rightly declare the southern states walkout as an attack on the Constitution, because an error of the founders was that they failed to include a measure to deal with rump situations. The Constitution and the nation we knew as the united States of America was dissolved and broken. The nation we now have may claim to use the same document but is an entirely different country.

Jon Jewett
November 26, 2009 7:36 am

Hot item from Detroit News
http://www.detnews.com/article/20091126/OPINION03/911260322/1008/-Climategate–puts-warming-in-question
I compared Googl and Bling search engines. Only looked at the first page of each but it seemed that they were returning similar results and had decent coverage.
Regards,
Steamboat Jack

Spenc BC
November 26, 2009 7:45 am

Went to supper last night with five of my campus colleagues. Professors all of us and one a scientist. Not one of them has heard of Climategate or the emails. None of my close associates here in Canada are aware of this information. Blogging will not stop this train. Governments will still move ahead with cap and trade. Like I said, the train is well out of the station and at full speed. I will be amazed if we can stop it based on this info leak. Unless MSM start getting honest all of a sudden, the fix is in I fear! Don’t hold your breath for MSN.
PS Turnbull still has majority support in his party, unless more defect soon!

Mac
November 26, 2009 7:51 am
November 26, 2009 7:54 am

P Gosselin (02:03:42) :
Question:
I heard that 160 MB of data were taken, yet only 60 MB have been released so far.
Can we expect another bomb to be unloaded?
Or is that it?
Is the rest going to be unloaded during Copenhagen to embarass it? (Or am i getting carried away with fantasies?)

It is a 160 MB of data but when zipped it is 60 MB lol… See even here we have issues with measurements.

vigilantfish
November 26, 2009 7:57 am

I am planning to send the following letter to the prime minister of Canada and the leader of the opposition. I thought I would run it by WUWT readers to see if I have it essentially correct.
Dear Prime Minister Harper,
I am a historian of science who has long been concerned about the propaganda being used to advance an agenda that will cripple the economies of the developed nations based on so-called climate science. The recent revelations of the abuse of due scientific process revealed by the leaked correspondence of the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit shows a persistent and deliberate to derail legitimate scientific scrutiny and criticism of the findings of CRU, NOAA’s GISS, and other climate research centres. Although the main-stream media and politicians have not given this story the attention it deserves, the scandal will not go away. That is because these e-mails reveal the following:
1) refusal to share data so that other scientists can verify the results being propounded by the advocates of the theory of anthropogenic global warming – a violation of scientific protocol
2) perverting the editorial boards of scientific journals through intimidating editors to not allow dissenting articles to be published; or even having editors sympathetic to other theories dismissed
3) deliberate alteration of findings through superimposing different types of data sets from totally different studies (i.e. dendochronology as temperature proxies + actual temperature from surface stations) because using one continuous series did not give the results aimed at by the climatologists
4) slagging the reputations of scientists who were critical of their work, or who held differing theories, not only privately but publicly; or claiming that specialists in other fields that are clearly pertinent to the data analysis were not competent to do this work because not “real” climate scientists, to mislead mainstream media outlets
5) analysis of their computer codes shows the use of imaginary data due to the incompetence in computer coding by the scientists and their subsequent need to invent data to fill in gaps
6) promotion of wildly exaggerated computer models based on this shoddy and incompetent use of flawed data
7) rather than being dispassionate seekers of scientific truth, these “scientists” have perverted the course of science though acting as activists in such a way as to alarm the public and also to benefit their own research budgets and reputations
If you think that this scandal is going to disappear, you do not understand how science works. Scientists in all fields have been intimidated (as have I, a university academic) from widely disseminating their scepticism about the so-called findings, models, and predictions by the bullying methods of political correctness – being seen as anti-environmental, flat-earthers in denial of scientific truth, or being seen as supporting the “wrong” kind of politics. However, now that the extent of the corruption of science has been revealed, more and more scientists are going to speak out, since science itself will suffer if this situation is not corrected.
It is essential that you realize that most of the IPCC statements are based on the findings of Hadley-CRU data and models, together with the work of scientists at the also heavily implicated NOAA-GISS . Indeed, as one who has been following this story for nearly a decade, out of professional interest, I am aware that most of the scientists who collaborated on the IPCC reports who were not part of the self-styled “Hockey Team” (the inner scientists at Hadley, CRU, and GISS) – or their hangers on – had strong reservations about the final versions of the reports: most of their caveats, which indicated that the predictions being made were flawed, incorrect or exaggerated, were dropped from the final version. It would be criminal to endorse political policies that will threaten the well-being of ordinary people and especially (and inevitably) the poorest in society at the upcoming meeting in Copenhagen based on the threatening findings of these organizations, which have turned out to be mere, threatening, fairy-tales.
I plead with you to do the right thing and not commit Canada to international agreements based on a fantasy: please wait for real science to be done. While there is indeed a need to take action to reduce real pollution, the measures that are proposed at Copenhagen will do little to address this, and will in effect be worse than doing nothing.
Sincerely,

Deadman
November 26, 2009 8:02 am

In the case of the resignations of Liberal Party members, it is a convention, in State and Federal parliaments that shadow ministers must vote according to the decision of the party room. Backbenchers, though expected to vote as ordered by the leadership, have slightly more freedom. In some rare occasions, such as when voting for legislation on abortion or euthanasia, the Labor Party (which has stricter rules against ‘crossing the floor’) as well as the Liberal Party allow what they call a “conscience vote” whereby an MP may vote as his or her conscience suggests for or against a bill. (It is interesting how seldom MPs are allowed by their parties to vote as they wish; the people whom they reputably represent might be astonished by the lack of freedom of action enjoyed by their MPs.)
Anyway, resigning from the front bench does not mean that the MP will resign from Parliament. Considering that most MPs like, if nothing else, the extra perquisites which come from being on the front bench, no doubt most will manœuvre to regain their portfolios as soon as possible once the voting on the ETS bill is over.
Having said that, it is praiseworthy for these MPs to act on principle. Would that more do the same.

Spenc BC
November 26, 2009 8:05 am

Well put vigilantfish: I have done likewise. Spent three hours yesterday contacting every MP with a similar email.

Deadman
November 26, 2009 8:06 am

… and by reputably I mean reputedly
It’s late; I’m tired; but I must find a way to hide the decline.

Jeremy
November 26, 2009 8:20 am

Breaking news: Canada’s CBC follows the BBC in a massive COVER UP.
There was an article released on Wednesday 25th attacking Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper plan to NOT ATTEND Copenhoken.
There were over 465 comments relating to this article this morning (Thursdsay 26th), almost ALL 465 of the comments were cheering for Stephen Harper and condemning the Media and Western Politicians for perpetrating the now exposed (CRU Scandal) man-made Climate Change Fraud.
Well guess what – in one single wave of the magic ‘COVER-UP WAND’ – there are NO COMMENTS today – the slate has been wiped clean – none of the comments existed.
Here is a link http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/obama-headed-to-copenhagen/article1376880/#comments
….SHRED SHRED SHRED …..465 Comments GONE – eradictaed by disciples of David Suzuki, Anne Tremonti and the CBC THOUGHT POLICE
This was (until this morning) the MOST popular read article on CBC website – THAT TOO HAS BEEN FIXED!!!!!
History being re-written by CBC “pravda”.

Spenc BC
November 26, 2009 8:25 am

Yeh a similar event at the Globe and Mail, only now all you see is “so and so’s comments were abusive and have been removed.” There is an army of Liberal vols. writing in to complain about posts and the GM policy is to remove a comment after so many complaints. Some of these people are using four computers with four handles and IP addresses.

TQS
November 26, 2009 8:29 am

You may find this article heartening:
Malcolm Turnbull felled by grassroots revolt
Dennis Shanahan, Political editor
The Australian
November 27, 2009 12:00AM
MALCOLM Turnbull’s leadership has been destroyed in a spectacular and unprecedented fashion.
For the first time, a grassroots revolt by local Liberal branches and members has brought down the leader of the parliamentary Liberal Party…
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/malcolm-felled-by-grassroots-revolt/story-e6frg6zo-1225804383345
The battle is not over yet, but it appears that the ETS will be delayed until February, after the failure at Copenhagen. This gives the Opposition time to campaign on issues like Climategate, the divergence problem, YAD061, the latest NZ data “adjustment” fraud and the expense and economic carnage of a pointless ETS tax.
The fact that a Liberal leader, as high profile as Malcolm Turnbull, has been rolled on this, forces a public re-examination the “science” of Climate Change that had previously been accepted as received wisdom, to discover why the Liberal party has gone into revolt. Copenhagen will keep it in the news over summer, and its failure will remind people to the cynical reality of the politics long after the popular hagiography of Kyoto.
This is an incredible opening to turn back almost 20 years of watermelon agitprop, fraudulent “science” and myth making alarmism with a real debate on the merits of the “science” and the economics and politics of an ETS tax. This is a summer that Australia must win.

MattB
November 26, 2009 8:33 am

It is useful to add that at the last Federal Election in Australia both the current government (ALP) and the then government (Liberal) ran on a platform of introducing an ETS during the next term of government. My feeling is that if Turnbull gets dumped he will at least be able to find 5 or 6 mates to cross the floor with him and vote for the ETS, especially as 45 of them chose to keep him as leader only yesterday. The scpetics are getting loud and vocal, but even at the height of the argument they don’t have the numbers it seems.
Dire days for the Libs who got drowned in an internal feud of sceptics vs non-sceptics when they should have been targeting the many flaws in the proposed ETS (or CPRS as it is called). THe Greens oppose it as it is not based in the mainstream science… it is very much an ETS for the sake of it, and the sake is crushing the crippled Liberal party. I’ve commented in other places that you;d oppose the CPRS based on science whether you were a warmist or a sceptic… only a political agenda would make you back it.
Malcolm Turnbull is their only hope really. Who else do they have… well no one who disagrees with him. Hockey gets mentioned but he is a Turnbull man. Abbott is not going to win over the middle ground. Can they get Costello back? although he would have backed an ETS too I think.

November 26, 2009 8:37 am

The comments are there right now at 8.34 AM PT.. 521 of them.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/obama-headed-to-copenhagen/article1376880/#comments
Still waiting for main article.

Dean McAskil
November 26, 2009 8:38 am

For those Australians reading.
As a lifelong Liberal (conservative) voter I never liked Turnbull, particularly because he was a republican (in Aussie speak: anti-monarchist [our sovereign QEII]) however I was willing to let him have a go because he is a working class boy made good.
But his green AGW faith is symptomatic of a populist and shallow mind, with a tin ear for politics. I have not spoken to a conservative voter in the last few weeks that did not plee; “Malcolm, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.”
The real problem here is that the centre of the party, like the Prime Minister, see this as a political problem, assuming the AGW hypothesis is a populist given. What they don’t understand is that for us scientific rationalists it is a “die in a ditch” issue.
I am glad at heart that many of the front bench have made the ultimate political sacrifice for this issue.
I think Turbull is genuinely shocked because he just doesn’t have the depth of soul to understand the import of this issue to the grass roots of his own party.
The ETS is likely to be passed but I am going to once again join the party for the soul purpose of making sure those that voted for the ETS are dis-endorsed at the next election.

Leon Brozyna
November 26, 2009 8:39 am

And the story continues to grow — typed in climategate at Google and got 7 million returns; at Bing it’s even bigger, at 48 million returns. And of course the fluff and puff lamestream media remains clueless; is it any wonder that the perky one anchors at CBS — she’s the poster child for the state of the lamestream media journalism.

Bruce Cobb
November 26, 2009 8:47 am

Steve (04:11:40) :
This graph convinced David Attenborough that ‘global warming’ was anthropogenic.Can someone point out the fault with it and maybe set him straight? (He’s a very influential person to the man in the street).I originally saw a better quality copy but you can make it out still.


Paul Mcrae did a pretty good commentary on that “interview”, which he refers to as a hosing, a good description: http://www.paulmacrae.com/?p=48.
Too bad Attenborough had to ask Peter Cox, one of the 26 quacks who came up with the recent Copenhagen (Mis) – Diagnosis:
http://www.ccrc.unsw.edu.au/Copenhagen/Copenhagen_Diagnosis_LOW.pdf
Sadly, he seemed only interested in one side of the story. The emotional appeal of “saving the planet” has a way of trumping the interest in the truth and in actual science.