Ripples of Climategate? Liberal MP's desert Turnbull in Australia over emissions trading scheme

Wow, Australia’s parliament just imploded over discord due to emissions trading scheme being pushed by opposition leader Malcolm Turnbull (website here). Here’s the news from the Australian Broadcasting Corporation:

click image for the news story

Pretty heavy stuff when Liberal MP’s resign rather than vote for a cap and trade scheme. The vote seems rather difficult now.

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Capn Jack Walker
November 25, 2009 11:33 pm

Liberals in Australia are conservatives think of them slightly light republican.
Tradtionalists and a Party for business people.
Labor was originally a union movement but with the almost universal decline in union membership, they are a party of the left. The Greens who always vote with Labor are Australia’s hard left.

Johnny Honda
November 25, 2009 11:34 pm


November 25, 2009 11:41 pm

Excellent news – makes me proud to be an Australian. I was just about to switch my vote to the other conservative (sic) party in Australia – the “Nationals”. (Actually I might yet – at least in the Senate.)
Unfortunately Australia will still probably get an ETS bill passed this year but these guys negotiated it to be a bit better (less worse) than it otherwise might have been before they resigned.

November 25, 2009 11:44 pm

Good point Capn Jack – the “Liberal” party are a centre-right party, rather than truly conservative (hence my “sic” above) and in the main are not “small l” liberal; the name is confusing for non-Aussies.

November 25, 2009 11:45 pm

The Rudd government is still trying to force the ETS through. Man I hope it fails, it will destroy this country.

November 25, 2009 11:46 pm

I wouldn’t say they have resigned because of the recent ‘climategate’ events. There was deep party divide over the ETS before ‘climategate’ became public.
I havent seen the CRU emails/data leak mentioned in any media over here yet.
REPLY: It’s been all over the Herald Sun. And I didn’t mean to suggest they did resign over it, only the growing doubts. -A

November 25, 2009 11:46 pm

Some commentary from Joanne Nova, most of which applies equally to the US and UK:
Journalists view world through a mirror: see things in reverse. Coming soon, is one of those In-the-Matrix moments when reality shifts for our journalists.
The realization that the CO2 theory is fraudulent is spreading across the political spectrum, from right to left. Hard nosed realists first, ideologues last.

Greg Cavanagh
November 25, 2009 11:49 pm

Nor have I seen any mention of this unfolding email leak mention in any news broadcast in Australia. Its been 6 days now and not a word.
REPLY: You have not seen it in the Herald Sun? I’ve seen several articles there. Still I’ll take your word for it and I’m just leaving the title free of the suggestion and only the story line. – A

November 25, 2009 11:56 pm

Michael and Greg,
it is all over Andrew Bolt’s Herald Sun articles, and his and Tim Blair’s blogs. There was a soft mention in the Brisbane Courier Mail and a better on in the Australian (national) newspaper hard copy.
They didn’t call it “climategate” though.
I saw it called “Climaquiddick” somewhere, because the Media will ignore and then hush it up. [A – please feel free to snip that last sentence if it’s outside comment policy.]

a jones
November 25, 2009 11:56 pm

I am not sure, not being au fait with Australian politics or constitution.
From what I understood after the Senate rejected the bill the gov’t reintroduced it and should it fail again can call an election for both houses: I believe the last time that happened was under Gough Whitlam.
Now apparently, and again I am not sure Turnbull agreed with the gov’t to pass the revised bill effectually without a vote: and this gave the impression that the new bill would be waived through. I am not sure whether the defections mean that is now true and if it is not whether the bill can pass.
So could somebody from down under please explain. That means you DMS.
Kindest Regards

November 25, 2009 11:57 pm

I thought it was only Andrew Bolt giving climategate some traction. Guess I havent been looking hard enough…
Bit of coverage and a Lateline Video link on ABC if any Aussie’s are interested;

Zeke the Sneak
November 25, 2009 11:59 pm

Emails in play- –
“I’ve received over the years many, many emails and phone calls,” he said.
“They have never been to the level that I’m receiving them at the moment.”
~Alby Schultz
“We are receiving thousands of emails from all over Australia from people who are outraged that the Government will implement and introduce a $120 billion tax with no possible environmental benefit.”
“The Australian temper about the ETS is white hot – they hate it,” he said.
~Senator Cory Bernadi

November 26, 2009 12:00 am

Most people here in Australia are unaware of the CRU hack and the questions it brings. I also have not seen any coverage at all on the televised media or any major coverage in the dailies. Thank goodness we have the internet. I just wish more people understood what the ETS really means, and the baseless science driving it

November 26, 2009 12:01 am

I emailed Baraby Joyce the link to the NZ Climategate thread with links to the Marble bar and Kalgoorlie adjustments.
about 2-3 hours ago
Hopefully the senate may toss it out .

November 26, 2009 12:04 am

Apologies for multiple comments.
Here’s the story from The Australian
“Hot and bothered”
“CLIMATE change sceptics have pounced on the mass release by hackers of emails between climate scientists that appear to portray the scientists as fudgers and obfuscators of data and as plotters who would undermine their opponents’ work.”
also within the text
“Opposition Senate leader and Australia’s unofficial chief climate change sceptic Nick Minchin says the email scandal has strengthened a point he has long made.”
Opposition senate leader Nick Minchin is one who resigned today; I don’t think Anthony’s Climategate link is miles off.

November 26, 2009 12:07 am

Time for a real leader KEVIN ANDREWS to step up and oppose the global bullies of climate change, this Turnball guy is an ex banker, like the ones who are setting up the ETS

Patrick Davis
November 26, 2009 12:10 am

“Greg Cavanagh (23:49:46) :
Nor have I seen any mention of this unfolding email leak mention in any news broadcast in Australia. Its been 6 days now and not a word.
REPLY: You have not seen it in the Herald Sun? I’ve seen several articles there. Still I’ll take your word for it and I’m just leaving the title free of the suggestion and only the story line. – A”
Anthony, I thank you for your site and bringing these stories to our attention. Thankyou Al Gore for inventing the interenet 😉
But, here in Aus there has been very little coverage in the MSN and main news broadcasts. It has featured in “Technology” sections of the SMH for instance, but wasn’t up on their site for long on the front page. There also has been a little coverage in late TV programs like “DateLine”, but that is it.
In all, there’s no coverage of the hack/leak at the CRU. There will be no, or little, coverae of the NIWA event either.
The ruling elites in Aus are pro-AGW, with fingers in both ears, both eyes shut, and screaming “I can’t hear you! Blah blah blah blah…!”

November 26, 2009 12:12 am

Again, sorry for multiple comments.
a jones,
you’re pretty close. If a bill is rejected twice then the Government can call a “double dissolution” and all house and senate seats are vacant and up for election. (A bit like your mid terms not all seats are necessarily up at each election).
It does require a vote in the senate though and not a “wave through” (it has already passed the house by vote the second time). That second senate vote will be tomorrow (Friday) or Monday (remembering we’re a day ahead).
The Labor (left) govt will vote in favour, the National Party (conservative) will vote against, the Greens will vote against (strangely! but that’s because it isn’t “tough enough”) leaving this party above with the casting vote. As of yesterday I though they would vote in favour/favor (i.e. we’d get an ETS). Not so sure now, but I still don’t think these guys quite have the numbers. I think we’ll get it by a squeak, unfortunately, unless others follow these resignations and there’s another leadership spill (there was an unsuccessful one yesterday to remove the leader).
This is exciting stuff – shame so much rides on a few wavering votes.

Graeme from Melbourne
November 26, 2009 12:15 am

Personally I love it – Turnbull is a “True Believer” and ex head of Goldman Sachs in Australia…
The sooner he and his adherance to a fraudulent idea are ousted the better.
Graeme from Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Geoff C
November 26, 2009 12:18 am

The Liberals (conservatives) yesterday had a party meeting and decided not to have a vote for leadership. Turnbull won 45-37. His problem is that indeed if the bill is rejected, it could trigger a dissolution of both houses and an early election. However, the Liberals would not win on current polling. They may have better numbers by next November when the election is due. He did manage to easily negotiate to have several ammendments which weaken the ETS. The Greens and Liberal right don’t like the ETS bill.
A sideline is that Turnbull is an ex-merchent banker, so would dearly love his mates (cronies) to have an ETS (cap-n-trade) so they can make lotsa money off the Aussie sheeple. He is also a republican in that he wants to be rid of the monarchy. Most of his party probably think he is a bit too left wing.
The prime minister Kevin Rudd, on the other hand, is an ex-diplomat. He is very boring and waffles a lot like most bureaucrats. It is widely believed he is an opportunist, not an idealist and just wants an ETS now to impress the UN, so he can fulfill his duel ambition of being let onto the UN security council, and one day being the head of the UN. Don’t let him, please, US voters.

November 26, 2009 12:18 am

Australians are treated to a daily diet of climate armageddon by the MSM, the television channel SBS one in particular. Congratulations to those politicians who quit in protest. They put their intellect and commonsense on the line and refused to go along with the complete airheads who lead them. While Turnbull is unfit for the job, it is just nauseating to watch that pious little prefect Krudd pontifificate on the weather and just about everything else that takes his fancy. I anticipate a public revolt if the ETS is ever implemented, a revolt which will consign all these moronic political warmists to Siberia.

November 26, 2009 12:25 am

The Democratic Party is the party of opression.

a jones
November 26, 2009 12:27 am

Thanx DMS.
I am in the UK by the way.
Exciting times indeed.
We shall see what we shall see.
Kindest Regards

November 26, 2009 12:27 am

The Australian Liberals are NOT a conservative party. They once were, a long time ago.
Today – if you look at their policies, they are almost identical to the US Democrats in policy and priciples.
Australian politics in general, is far to the left of the US politics.
The Liberals are a Centre-Left party, while Labour (the party in power in Aus) are an far-left/socialist party by US standards.
That`s even more important because now we have a centre-left party with people quiting over AGW.

Geoff C
November 26, 2009 12:29 am

Andrew Bolt’s presence is mostly his blog on the Herald Sun opinion section. Not much other sceptical view is included, but the paper is socially conservative and popular and can change very quickly. He had a large centre spread in todays paper paper.
The newspaper The Australian is a bit more intellectual and sometimes has sceptical views, but has a low circulation. The Age (or Sydney morning Herald) is dominated by left wing elitists, pompous school teachers and other radicals that can’t listen to any rational debate and they have their fingers in their ears.

November 26, 2009 12:29 am

Just to get foreign readers (non Australian) up to speed the story goes something like this:
The government (which is the Labor party) have been negotiating with the opposition party (Liberals) on the ETS scheme that Rudd (the PM) is determined to get through before Copenhagen (delusions of grandeur).
The Liberal party are so divided on this issue that after Turnbull (The opposition leader) announced an agreement had been reached with the government to allow the bill to pass to the senate for final vote, a faction of his party called for a leadership spill. He won the leadership vote 48-35 (or something similar), hardly flattering for him.
Now the ETS bill has to pass the senate vote before it becomes law. Those shadow ministers that would have been compelled to vote the party line have resigned their positions on the ‘front bench’ (ie they held portfolio positions) to go to the ‘back bench’ which allows them to vote as they please.
The funny thing is we also have the Nationals who are dead against it, and the Greens who will vote against it only because they don’t think it goes far enough!
I don’t know how the number stack up but I hope it doesn’t get through.

November 26, 2009 12:31 am

While the issue of the emails was covered for two days in the Australian news paper, front page on 23/11/09 and a full page on 24/11/09 there has been no mention on any TV broadcast that I have seen in Australia. No attention was paid to the more serious issues of the code and data. Senator Minchin was reported to be aware of the emails and their significance in the 24/11/09 edition. Given the that many skeptical or realist Liberals are now threatening to resign from party positions over Mr. Turnbull’s spineless handling of the whole climate matter, I would guess most are aware of the leak. My feelings as an Australian are that Mr. Turnbull is a fatuous buffoon who believes issues of science can be measured by political and popular opinion. If an ETS passes in Australia the public will blame the Liberal party who had the chance of stopping it, but chose to avoid an early election. Sadly the Labor party can be excused as they were voted in to do this damage.

King of Cool
November 26, 2009 12:34 am

Turnbull has just held a Press Conference and is going down like a kamikaze pilot defiantly calling for action over climate change and at the same time destroying the integrity of his own party and everything they stand for.
Passions are running high all over the country but there is no doubt that Turnbull cannot survive as leader of what appears to be majority that do not support his view.
That view is confused because there has never been a proper debate over the effect of humans over climate. Hopefully, if anything this political crisis, the likes of which I have never seen, may encourage more debate. However, the MSM will be spinning the issue as a destabilised opposition who do not care about the environment rather than concentrating on the issue which is the futility of an ETS that would do nothing for the country except to send it broke.

Geoff C
November 26, 2009 12:37 am

On monday, ‘climategate’ got 40,000 hits in google.
Today it is 5,500,000

November 26, 2009 12:44 am

@Patrick Davis (00:10:43) : The headline (ie 7:10am) part of Sunrise this morning on Ch7 ran the story. It started off well, live cross to the UK with a report on the leaked emails, then it all went pear shaped when Kochie lobbed skeptics’ questions to Nick Rowley who answered them in true Rudd/Wong-speak. Video here: I’m told after that segment they promised to have an AGW skeptic on the show but only if they were a climate scientist. Anyone wanna forward them Lindzen’s phone number?
Anthony – Bolt has been superb but apart from his column yesterday (this runs in the print edition on Wed and Fri in the Herald Sun, Australia’s highest selling newspaper), there has been no column inches in the print edition dedicated to this (that I’ve seen).

November 26, 2009 12:44 am

I have been trying to understand Turnbull’s thinking and simply can’t. There’s obviously a bit stubborn price and trying to impose his authority in it but he was well aware of the divisions in his party on the issue, which have been simmering for some time, and the release of the CRU documents gave him a golden opportunity to say that, with the new information to hand, he would step back and reconsider. That’s all he had to do. The Cap and Tax has been shelved. Copenhagen is going nowhere. What’s the imperative to pass it here? To enable Rudd to boast about his world leadership?
Turnbull is my own M.P. and I’ve written to him on many occasions on this subject. Earlier, when the ETS was popular (public ignorance) he was afraid of a double dissolution wipeout but he MUST be aware now of the changes in public perceptions. In fact, his only opportunity to win the next election is to reject the legislation and force Labor to stand on it in an election. Just think what a scare campaign could be run.
Everyone is always saying how bright Turnbull is so I have to assume that he knows all this. This leaves only two options that I can see –
1. He’s such an idealogue that he will go to any lengths, including
destroying his own party and leadership, to get this through (which
means he’s in the wrong party), or
2. There is some pecuniary interest in it for him. He did, after all, make his
considerable fortune as a merchant banker.
If anyone has any other possible explanation I’d be delighted to hear it because I’m stumped.

November 26, 2009 12:45 am

Sat through a presentation of our ETS (CPRS) from the WA Treasury Department. It is clear they do not have a grasp of the mechanics of the scheme nor the economic implications. Australia has a growing population and is set for another wave of the mining boom driven by Chinese demand… and at this point in time we want to decrease carbon emissions based on year 2000 levels?
The government is going to fix the number of permits allocated per year, but they also want to cap the price at AUD$20 per tonne of CO2-e… now I don’t know, but I was taught that even a pure monopolist can only control price or quantity … not both. Once the cap is lifted the price will explode on a freely traded market and we can wave a lot of marginal industries goodbye.
Also the “free” permit allocations are to be based on emissions intensity. So for EITEs (Emissions Intensive Trade Exposed) industries they get 94.5% or 66% of their permits free depending on their emissions intensity.
Emissions intensity = Tonnes CO2-e / (price * quantity) We will be committing to a 5% minimum reduction of CO2-e emissions. We emit 1.5% of the world’s CO2… so this massive hit to industry which involves massive revenue reallocation, will reduce the world’s man made CO2 emission by a whopping 0.075%.
/golfclap Emperor Rudd

Gregg E.
November 26, 2009 12:46 am

It always strikes me as an odd thing in so many countries where a batch of politicians will just up and quit or withdraw from an election when things get tough. How can they affect (or effect) things when they *quit*?
Remember the last elections in Iran? The Mullahs disqualified most of the conservative candidates so in “defiant protest” almost all the ones not disqualified withdrew. Brilliant plan! Hand over the entire government to the crazy people.
I do like the concept of forcing everyone to go up for election all at once. Gives a chance for the voters to really clean house, though I suspect the sheep of all parties return most of the rotters back to their offices.
Something I thought of today for the US Senate, if the Republicans want to try and filibuster a cap and trade bill, the perfect reading material would be the CRU e-mails and other documents. That’d be a real side-slapper to get it all read into the Congressional record! e-mail your Senators and suggest it. 🙂

Geoff C
November 26, 2009 12:52 am

The following paragraph from Andrew Bolt today wraps it up nicely for the Liberals. I think this is true for many political parties around the world.
So the fight now MUST belatedly be about the state of the science itself, a a debate I’ve urged on the Liberals for the best part of a decade. Lazy bastards are now reaping their failure to do so – are paying for their lack of intellectual curiosty, their lack of faith in their power to convince, and their lack of courage. Still, many are showing courage now, and the fight cannot now be shirked.
I hope they show more guts than they have showed over the last few years,

November 26, 2009 1:00 am

The point about the Liberals being the more conservative party is that this is a split in the side with doubts about the ETS. The Labor government is united in support of the legislation, but does not have a majority in the Senate (nor do the Liberals).
Read DMS’s post carefully if you want to follow this. It’s possible that the more chaotic Senate could reject the ETS, for varied reasons. But the counter is that Labor could then force an election in which all members of both houses would face the voters. Senators normally have six year terms (rotating as in US, but three year election cycles), so that is painful for some. And in the current climate, Labor would win easily (and then pass the ETS). They are the tactical issues that have put the Liberals in a spot.

Chris Polis
November 26, 2009 1:03 am
Greg Spurgin
November 26, 2009 1:04 am

Its great to see that the Liberals are finally standing up to Rudd and the ETS scheme. The Liberals are going to loose the next election anyway – no government in Australia gets throw out after one term. However if the Liberals oppose the ETS they will have something to fight the Labor Party with in the 2013 Election. I think the climate skeptics grow in numbers every year, and by 2013 they will be an even greater electoral force.

November 26, 2009 1:06 am

For some reason my previous post was slightly chopped up. What I meant to add was that:
Emissions intensity = Tonnes CO2-e / (price * quantity)
Tonnes emitted and quantity produced do not change that much for industry from year to year, but price varies enormously in the mineral industries. Thus EITE free permits will be at the whim of international metal markets. Some years a particular industry, say alumina refining, may get 66% of their permits free, the next (after a price increase) they may drop below the 1200 Co2-e per A$million threshold and lose them all.
This scenario is clearly unacceptable risk to industry. I sincerely hope they intend to smooth these transitions out.

November 26, 2009 1:09 am

Front benchers are the “shadow govt” ie the people in opposition who are the most senior and have portfolios simulating the govt positions. Whilst part of the front bench they are not allowed to vote against their own party lines. If they resign from the front bench and become a “back bencher” the party does permit them to cross the floor and vote against their own party.
FOllowing about 10 Liberal front benchers resigning today so that they can go against party decisions and vote against what the party wants them to vote for, there was intense speculation the leader would resign. (The leader is intent on passing the ETS bill.) The leader called a press conference where many thought he would resign but instead he dug his heels in. There is significant opposition to the bill in the Liberal party largely due to the intense grass roots movement that have been calling, faxing and emailing their politicians telling them to vote against the bill.
The question now is a) whether there will be another leadership challenge (there was one yesterday that was defeated) and/or b) whether there are enough liberal senators that will vote against their own party in the vote tomorrow or Monday.
Sadly, current analysis seems to indicate the bill will just go through. If there is another leadership challenge though this may change.

November 26, 2009 1:24 am

Admittedly somewhat OT but there’s a new take on the email release here
I think we can assume that the Daily Mail does not always print that which is not true as alleged by some.

November 26, 2009 1:24 am

From Andrew Bolt’s Blog in the Herald Sun –
“Turnbull at his press conference says he’ll fight and claims no modern party can survive if it’s sceptical about man-made warming. ”
Question answered – he’s a lunatic.

November 26, 2009 1:26 am

When considering the history of this event,and the possible outcome ,it is relevant to know that Malcolm Turnbull was an executive with Goldman Sachs.
Some people say “follow the money”.

November 26, 2009 1:29 am

Now that’s my kinda Jimmy Hansen……

Patrick Davis
November 26, 2009 1:30 am

Well, finally, there is some coverage at the SMH…
But it seems to be the tinyest trickle.

Jack Jennings
November 26, 2009 1:32 am

Hi All, I’ve been watching this Climategate unfold, slowly gathering way. So pleased to see all the Aus comments here. In Melbourne we’ve been hit by very early, really hot weather, which of course Rudd has linked directly to AGW.
I’ve searched the MSM eg The Australian, The Age and SBS News to see an emergence of news about CRU and they have been very, very slow to post anything. Given how much they exclaim that AGW is the most urgent issue and that the calamities are so great then a issue that speaks to the heart of the whole AGW hypothesis seems extremely odd. Instead we get articles about ice loss in east Antarctica that posit a 100% error factor.
My 2 bobs worth is that Rudd needs the ETS money to pay for all the money he gave away in the GFS stimulus (we didn’t need) and has put the word on the MSM not to spill the beans about the CRU exposure until after he has his ETS. It’s all about the money.
There are many, many people genuinely (I assume) worried about effects of AGW on their children & others so the work of WUWT is so important in providing links to information, discussion and intellectual rigour.
Cheers & thanks, Jack

November 26, 2009 1:35 am

Tony Abbott, you little beauty! This won’t stop the legislation, and the opposition is unlikely to win after a double dissolution. But with luck we’ll have party-delineated opposition to AGW, with front and back bench skeptics on Labor’s side.
Cometh the hour, cometh the Jesuit boy.

Jack Jennings
November 26, 2009 1:36 am

Hi moderators,
my last post had the wrong email address. You always notice these things a nano second after your finger hits the button.
Thanks for your sterling work, Jack

November 26, 2009 1:46 am

The Senate will vote by 3.45 pm Australian Eastern time Friday. A note on the numbers in the Senate. The party numbers are: –
ALP- 32 All will vote yes.
CLP- 1 will vote no.
Fam 1st- 1 will vote no.
Greens- 4 will vote no.
Indep- 1 not sure.
Lib-32 Assuming the independent votes yes 5 have to vote yes for it to pass.
Nats.- 4 will vote no.
Total no. of Senators – 75. A majority is 38 minimum.
The Liberal Senators are currently meeting. The Liberal Senate leader & dup. leader offered their resignations earlier but the party leader, Malcolm Turnbull asked that they stay on till this legislation goes through the Senate.
Nine or ten liberal members resigned from the opposition front bench yesterday & today. Turnbull is under tremendous pressure; I don’t see how he can survive because he has dug in his heels on this issue to get this legislation through. He stacked his leadership on getting this legislation through the Senate after negotiating with the Labour party (A.L.P.) for 5 weeks. In a press interview 1 3/4 hours ago he emphasised again that “climate change” is the most important issue of the times, blah, blah, blah and is not standing down.
My bet and I could be wrong; the legislation will not pass & Turnbull will not be liberal leader for long.
Nothing to do with Climategate, sorry. What’s driving this is huge pressure from the Liberal’s grassroot constituents, since the party meeting last Tuesday, who don’t agree with this legislation.

Geoff Sherrington
November 26, 2009 1:48 am

In Australia, it’s wedge politics. If the Liberal/National coalition refused to pass the ETS, that could trigger a double dissolution, which could happen sooner than the normal scheduled election. At a DD, all seats in both Houses become vacant. In a normal election, only half of the Upper House (Senate) comes up, the other half alternates 4 years onwards. The Libs have no desire for a DD because chances are they would lose the small control they now have in the Senate by making unholy alliances with the few Greens and some reasonable alliances with a couple of thinking Independents.
So it became a matter of Principle or Politics. That separates honest people. The ambitious ones can’t adjust to a wait of 4 years plus to the next election, so they go for politics in the hope that “someting” might spring up. That something could be the CRU emails and an analysis of their sigificance, but the MSM is playing that down because (a) if fails the skill to understand the significance and (b) it wants Labor back anyhow. Most journos here are just a bit short of Communism. Andrew Bolt is the standout exception.
BTW, there has been no publicity given to the targets who will receive windfalls from a Tax on carbon. One can only assume the prospect of pork barrelling on a grand scale. Likewise, there’s no access to a balance sheet calculating of GHG will increase or decrease. It’s just Loony Tunes stuff.

November 26, 2009 1:48 am

send my a photo of your “greatest AGW hero” and i`ll fix it in the montage below:

November 26, 2009 1:50 am

A quick question: is Joanne Nova a media personality in Aus, or just a blogger?

November 26, 2009 2:01 am

It is clear that Australians are about to get a strong dose of Climate science. Already the Labor party are discussing sceptics as deniers and promoters of conspiracies ( Monckton was basically described as a kook in Parliament yesterday for his interpretation of the proposed climate treaty). The only way forward for the Liberals under a new leader is to talk about the science. It is the only way forward.
As you all saw last week on this blog that The Climate Sceptics party are running ads on TV already. We are also running in the two by-elections to be held next week. I urge all sceptics to lend our candidates Stephen Murphy in Higgins and Bill Koutalianos in Bradfield a hand and your support if you are voting in theses elections to defeat both the useless Liberals and the socialists greens.

P Gosselin
November 26, 2009 2:03 am

I heard that 160 MB of data were taken, yet only 60 MB have been released so far.
Can we expect another bomb to be unloaded?
Or is that it?
Is the rest going to be unloaded during Copenhagen to embarass it? (Or am i getting carried away with fantasies?)

Les Francis
November 26, 2009 2:05 am

There will surely be a leadership spill tomorrow.
The problem is that the KRudd government can ram the bill through the Parliament tonight with the help of the current conservative leader.
To a.jones
30 years ago the Labor (left leaning liberal policied) government fell because the opposition blocked the money supply bill. The Queens representative sacked the government as without money supply they can’t govern. An election was held.
The Whitlam government was a left experiment that ended in a nightmare. Whitlam and his cronies turned a very prosperous country into a financial disaster in only three years. Ironically it was Iraq that bought them down. A loan scandal linked with some suspect shadowy Iraqi figures leaked.
The ruling party can call a double dissolution – both houses of parliament if they have a bill rejected. They need to petition the Queens representative to justify the sacking of both houses.
A double dissolution is a double edged sword. It often backfires on the governments who call them.
Australia is still not a republic. The British Queen is still the highest office holder of the land. No Australian born has any U.K. rights. This is a ridiculous situation.
The current government lead by Mr K.Rudd (or KRudd) is starting to mirror the financial ineptitude of the old Whtlam one.
Mr KRudd sees himself as a world champion and has visions of grandeur. His aim is to be up there with the big boys. He wants to be able to go to a meeting with Mr. Obami one can do next Monday and present a signed and delivered Emissions Trading Scheme.
Mr KRudd has recently be shunned by a stream of world leaders for his childish diplomacy.

November 26, 2009 2:11 am

I heard that 160 MB of data were taken, yet only 60 MB have been released so far.
Can we expect another bomb to be unloaded?

The zipped archive was 62mb. Unzipped it was around 160mb. So the answer is almost certainly no.

November 26, 2009 2:14 am

At least Australia still has five politicians, honest and true. How many does Great Britain have?

November 26, 2009 2:21 am

I would like to see the liberal party split and the true conservatives join with the Nationals to form a new conservative party in Australia.
The Liberal party is being led by a lefty who does not represent those of us that have conservative values. If they pass this legislation we will have no one to vote for as the National party are a country party and do not stand candidates in the Cities.
Short of voting for an independent their is no way voters can send the message to Turnbull without retaining the Rudd Government which is an even worse disaster for Australia.
We are in a very bad political situation IMO.

November 26, 2009 2:24 am

I think we’re starting to get some traction with the MSN.
We, the Climate Sceptics Party, held a rally in the Sydney CBD Wednesday. Below is a link to Today Tonight on the Seven Network last night. This shows Mr Bill Koutalianos, our candidate for a bye-election in Sydney on 5th Dec, pushing our case.

November 26, 2009 2:31 am

Now i`m sure, Man made global warming is the truth!
More than a handfull scientits, politicans and media did create it.
If we stop them, we can stop cape and trade and all these useless thinks around the world.
(maybe the last AGW dinner at Copenhagen)

vince in melbourne
November 26, 2009 2:35 am

there is only a bees dick of difference in australian labor/liberal parties.
the real difference is in the factions, Krudds mob are fabian socialist,incremental globalist, fascists of the future. they would love an early election as a mandate to push their agenda into high gear. Beware the banker in sheeps clothing.

November 26, 2009 2:41 am

NEWS for WUWT readers, Anthony and Mods:
Dr Tim Ball will spend two hours Thursday overnight, interviewed on the nationally syndicated radio program “Coast to Coast,” hosted by George Noory. (I heard the announcement with a teaser by Tim himself!, 3:07AM Mountain Time)
For those not night owls, a pod cast will be available later.
“Coast to Coast” is how I really got to feel like I know him, from two past appearances on the show. Compelling and informative.

November 26, 2009 2:44 am

Unfortunately there is little sophistication in the Australian media, though that may be a world wide problem.
Watching Sky News at this moment they are much more interested in the political blood letting rather than the doubts in climate science after the UEA CRU release.
Hopefully the second tranche of CRU data will come out over the weekend and finally burn through the MSM apathy.
Every time I have heard Malcolm Turnbull speak at party functions he acknowledges that there is strong doubt by party members re AGW.
He has never spoken down to these people but has said that if he had carriage of this debate he would introduce policies that are good in there own right and the fact that they reduce CO2 emmisions would be a secondary benefit.
These would include bio char to improve soil condition, reforestation of marginal farm land both in Australia and near by countries ie Indonesia / PNG/ Solomons etc, better utilisation and management of water on this dry continent.
He felt that this would be a fair compromise in the policy debate over AGW.
I am in the position of having 40 hectares of native montane forest that under the CPRS have no carbon credit value because it was initially started in 1989 rather than 1990.
I dont know why but a tree that started to grow in 1989 has NO sequestration of carbon value but one that started in1990 does.
That is how stupid this CPRS is and it offends me that land that I am responsible for does not accrue credits for the carbon that it sequesters but the business that I run on this land will be carbon taxed.
This Rudd/Wong CPRS bill sucks!

November 26, 2009 2:48 am

Just heard on the 9 pm news that senior Liberal members are now openly calling for Turncoat to resign. He’s dogmeat! As reported earlier, Liberals had their phone and fax systems at meltdown and their email boxes jammed full.
I sent very firm but polite emails to all Liberal senators in NSW about this. Radio 2GB has been excellent in their support. Alan Jones had Turnbull on about 10 days ago. According to Turnbull it doesn’t matter that prominent people like Lindzen say. All the world’s governments think it’s good and that’s all that matters. What a galah!
Good riddance Mal and take that little ponce Christopher Pyne with you.

November 26, 2009 2:49 am

I believe that if the Liberals blocked the ETS and managed to get their act together (a lot to ask, I know) they could win the next election, whether double dissolution or no. Nobody likes a new tax. All they would have to do is clearly explain the effect of the ETS on people’s standard of living, as well as the lack of any actual effect on the climate. The ongoning corruption scandal, with its possible criminal investigations and resignations would be a bonus.
Rudd must be chewing his nails to the quick hoping Turnbull is stupid enough to hand this to him now and not put him in the untenable position of having to fight for something which has been shown up as a fraud.

King of Cool
November 26, 2009 2:54 am

Meanwhile, the red satellite phone will be melting as Prime Minister Kevin Rudd wings his way to Trinidad to attend the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting (CHOGM).
During the summit, being held in Port of Spain between 27 and 29 November 2009, leaders are set to discuss issues such as the global economic crisis and climate change.
Following this enlightenment Kevin will be in Washington to confer with President Obama and discuss the battle plan for Copenhagen. Could be a tad embarrassing for Kev if his pet project has been thrown out behind his back after he had thought that he had it all sewn up.
Wouldn’t look too good for his “Friend of the Chair” status either at the Danish junket:

Beth Cooper
November 26, 2009 2:57 am

My emails to Australian Senators queried costly ET policy based on fudged data, as revealed in CRU emails.

John Levett
November 26, 2009 2:57 am

Following on from alleagra’s comment re the UK Daily Mail, I regret to say that our experience in the UK is similar to that of Australia. Many have commented on James Delingpole’s blogs on the Daily Telegraph (the first of which still remains their daily most-viewed site a week later) but the actual newspapers have given the issue minimal coverage on the basis of the leak rather than the content. The Independent (sic) has not mentioned it at all but all of the papers still give prominent coverage to pre-Copenhagen scare stories. The only Member of Parliament who seems to have commented is the Conservative, Peter Lilley who only had the opportunity to do so via Russian media.
Could I appeal to all UK-based Watts Up With That readers to write to their MPs and prospective MPs and demand to know what action they plan to take with regard to CRU, whether they would support an independent inquiry and – if the inquiry found against CRU – whether or not they would support the repeal of the climate change legislation that was passed almost unanimously last year. Hopefully, reasonable pressure might persuade the Conservative Party’s MPs to reconsider their position, especially if they see an opportunity to improve their chances of re-taking power at next year’s election. If nothing else, it will, at least, let them know that we’re on to them.
Given the enormity of what’s being proposed in the name of climate change and the near blackout with regards to the CRU coverage, it is very difficult to avoid suspicions of conspiracy. I suspect the greens are in for a nasty surprise when they eventually discover that their environmental concerns are not the real objective.

November 26, 2009 3:04 am

Greg Cavanagh (23:49:46) :
Nor have I seen any mention of this unfolding email leak mention in any news broadcast in Australia. Its been 6 days now and not a word.
You need to get out more Greg…its not been on the 6 o’clock news (much) but many news paper articles, and current affairs programs like the 7.30 report and Lateline have been asking the hard questions re the leak. Question time in the parliament as well as the senate speeches have mentioned it several times.
There is no doubt the “ClimateGate effect” is a driver in the current Liberal revolt.

November 26, 2009 3:24 am

The final vote is set for tomorrow afternoon at 3:45pm (Sydney time). They can’t really ram it through much quicker, because there are over 200 amendments that need to be dealt with.
The liberals have time, tomorrow morning, to hold a party-room meeting and install a new leader. Tony Abbott (conservative “faction”) is the most likely successor. If Abbott becomes the new leader tomorrow morning, the legislation may not pass – it may either be voted down, or deferred until after the Copenhagen summit. If no new leader takes over tomorrow morning, it is very likely the legislation will pass.
Those with any interest can watch the live parliamentary proceedings here: (click the senate link).

November 26, 2009 3:25 am

Les Francis says: “Australia is still not a republic. The British Queen is still the highest office holder of the land. No Australian born has any U.K. rights.
Actually, though Her Majesty, Elizabeth the Second, by Grace of God Queen of Australia and her other realms and territories is our sovereign, that does not mean that Australia is not a republic; we’re just not a presidential republic. (Res publica, by the way, is Latin for “public concern” or “commonwealth.”) Many people born in Australia do have British rights—if their parents were British. I can’t claim British citizenship, though my mother be Scottish, because I was born too long ago. Contemporaries with British fathers may claim British citizenship.
Australian elections don’t mean much to me: I was disenfranchised by State and Federal governments and may not vote because the Governments don’t like my name.
I can’t vote, so I comment on websites.

Neil O'Rourke
November 26, 2009 3:26 am

I have been trying to understand Turnbull’s thinking and simply can’t.
The core problem is that Turnbull is the Liberal leader when he really wants to be the Labor leader. Why else would he commission an Access Economics study on the effects of the ETS and go scurrying to Rudd’s office – and not share the results with his own party?

November 26, 2009 3:38 am

K Rudd to force vote tomorrow on ETS. He and Turnbull slither into action. Yet will this be legal when its now public knowledge its based on junk science, Guess KRudd doesnt care hes got his seat on the new world government!

Patrick Davis
November 26, 2009 3:40 am

“Iren (00:44:48) :
I have been trying to understand Turnbull’s thinking and simply can’t. There’s obviously a bit stubborn price and trying to impose his authority in it but he was well aware of the divisions in his party on the issue, which have been simmering for some time, and the release of the CRU documents gave him a golden opportunity to say that, with the new information to hand, he would step back and reconsider. That’s all he had to do. The Cap and Tax has been shelved. Copenhagen is going nowhere. What’s the imperative to pass it here? To enable Rudd to boast about his world leadership?
Turnbull is my own M.P. and I’ve written to him on many occasions on this subject. Earlier, when the ETS was popular (public ignorance) he was afraid of a double dissolution wipeout but he MUST be aware now of the changes in public perceptions. In fact, his only opportunity to win the next election is to reject the legislation and force Labor to stand on it in an election. Just think what a scare campaign could be run.
Everyone is always saying how bright Turnbull is so I have to assume that he knows all this. This leaves only two options that I can see –
1. He’s such an idealogue that he will go to any lengths, including
destroying his own party and leadership, to get this through (which
means he’s in the wrong party), or
2. There is some pecuniary interest in it for him. He did, after all, make his
considerable fortune as a merchant banker.
If anyone has any other possible explanation I’d be delighted to hear it because I’m stumped.”
Money and power, power and money. Almost unlimited in both cases, unearnt (He’s used to that). As simple as that.

November 26, 2009 3:49 am

Well, I am surprised. Who would have thought Her Majesty’s Liberal Members of Parliament would remember they posessed a spine.
By the by, the Queen of Australia is the highest rank in the land, not the Queen of Great Britain. Different positions and titles, same person, but it needn’t be that way necessarily.
Incidentally, they are largely a monarchist party (apart from Turnbullshit, funnily enough, so calling them light republicans is delightfully ironic. This is really the one policy for which I have any respect for the party. The fewer powers going to politicians, the better.
God Save The Queen.

Patrick Davis
November 26, 2009 3:49 am

“macumazan (02:14:50) :
At least Australia still has five politicians, honest and true. How many does Great Britain have?”
A “trick” question, right?

November 26, 2009 3:58 am

Geoff C (00:18:08) :
The Liberals (conservatives) yesterday had a party meeting and decided not to have a vote for leadership. Turnbull won 45-37.
That should read 48-35.
It might be a different story on the next ballot.

Patrick Davis
November 26, 2009 4:01 am

“Deadman (03:25:32) :
I can’t vote, so I comment on websites.”
Australia is a constitutional monarchy. There are “benefits” to that title, but they are debateable.
Until January this year, I too could not vote in Australia, my current abode (Migrant – And at my age and my tavelling/working/living in many countries etc, I am now tired of “migration” – Sheesh). Sadly, there is no politician in this land who has earnt my vote.

November 26, 2009 4:07 am

At least Australia still has five politicians, honest and true. How many does Great Britain have?

I think only two stood up against our version of this legislation in parliament. One of them was Peter Lilley. Lilley is best known for his hilariously embarrassing Conservative Party conference speech sometime in the early 1990’s.
The amazing thing is that none of our MP’s have bothered to inform themselves on the issue, simply accepting the science as is without even questioning its probity. Unfortunately this is how our country is run today. Diktat from the top (the executive or the EU) and a rubber stamp from our lazy, stupid MP’s.
I wrote to my MP James Paice three weeks ago and have received no reply so far. I’m sure he’s busy though and possibly this isn’t high on the agenda in his stream of consciousness. Why would it be? The Scientists all agree, the politicians all agree, the talking heads all agree, it’s just us “deniers” who don’t, and we’re all creationists, UFO believers and conspiracy theorists.

November 26, 2009 4:07 am

The only issue has been C02 versus global temps other issues are open for discussion ie local land use re pielke sr etc… I think we should be forgiving. Its obvious they have lost lets all move on…

November 26, 2009 4:09 am

Update – according to the “Lateline” news program, the liberals may make a deferral motion tomorrow morning in the senate. If the liberals all vote in favour of the motion, it is likely that they will have the numbers to defer the vote until AFTER any leadership decision on Monday or Tuesday.

November 26, 2009 4:11 am

This graph convinced David Attenborough that ‘global warming’ was anthropogenic.Can someone point out the fault with it and maybe set him straight? (He’s a very influential person to the man in the street).I originally saw a better quality copy but you can make it out still.

November 26, 2009 4:14 am

Turnbull, for those of you outside Australia, is also a notorious and arrogant bully and appears to believe that bullying all those he considers his inferiors (i.e., eveyone) is the best way to achieve what he wants. It worked for him when he was a merchant banker, and it worked for him as very adversarial, belligerent and not always completely scrupulous barrister. British folk may remember the Spycatcher trial wherein Turnbull represented Peter Wright and ridiculed Sir Robert Armstrong (as he then was), the Cabinet Secretary, Sir Michael Havers (as he then was), the Attorney General, and Mrs Margaret Thatcher (as she then was), the PM, to the delight of the Australian media. (Armstrong during the trial famously mentioned being “economical with the truth”, and Turnbull seized on the expression with glee.)
Unfortunately for Turnbull, a party room meeting over such a contentious policy might not the best place to practice aggressive intimidation as a persuasive technique.

November 26, 2009 4:28 am

Penny Wong was asked about “climategate” on the 7:30 repoort 2 days ago. She answered with the old “theres still an overwhelming consensus”, unfortunately I dont think she realises that most of the “overwhelming consensus” was based on the climategate data.

November 26, 2009 4:34 am

Turnbull is a dead man crawling. I’ve emailed every Liberal Senator that is rumoured to be considering voting for this scheme.
It’s now at about 13 members of Shadow Cabinet who have resigned (that’s over 1/3rd).
For non-Australian readers Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet (the Opposition’s Cabinet) is made up from members of Parliament only – unlike the US.

Roger Knights
November 26, 2009 4:39 am

On another site, commenter Tom Forrester-Paton calls the scandal “Fabrigate”.

November 26, 2009 4:50 am

Those who can’t understand Turnbull have to remember he represents a greenish electorate. To reject an ETS would cost him votes in his own seat. At the end of the day you have to recognise that the greatest motivator for any politician is re-election.
As someone who works for the state with the most at stake (Western Australia) I am terrified that this will have a major impact on our resources industry. We can pretty much kiss value-adding goodbye because it is too energy intensive. The crazy thing is that they are still trying to work out what to tax the LNG industry… FFS that is improving overseas emissions levels (assuming it replacing coal-fired power) and is likely to be penlised at home, creating a disincentive to develop new LNG projects. It is sheer lunacy. So instead of China buying more of our LNGthey will end up firing up more coal stations… good job Rudd.
Given that our reductions are to be based on 2000 emission levels we can’t afford new emission intensive industries, as the permits will not be there to “pollute” CO2. After price caps are removed the pressure of demand on diminishing permits will shoot the carbon price through the roof… if base metal prices are still low, kiss goodbye to aluminium, alumina, and other base metals in that order. We will be shipping ore and concentrates overseas to refineries and smelters in countries without ETS systems.
Ironically coal won’t disappear because it is ridiculously cheap comapred to other fuel sources. So we will continue to dig up and burn coal and sequester the CO2, resulting in a doubling of electricity prices.
I am rambling a bit… but I don’t think these are crazy scenarios. Our state has not modeled the impacts realistically, and I doubt the Federal Treasury has much more of a clue. Even if they did, their findings would be hidden by the Rudd collective.
All this because Emperor Rudd wants his moment in the sun at Copenhagen.

November 26, 2009 4:53 am

The Turnbull ballot was 48-35 because the only contender at the time was a jerk… he was just the political fluffer to prompt the resignations* which shall be followed by a second challenge from a real contender – likely, Tony Abbott, Andrew Robb or Joe Hockey.
* Resignation simply means they dropped their role as shadow not that they dropped their political seat. They still have all the voting power they had before the resignation.

November 26, 2009 4:54 am

Hey Patrick Ive also repeatedly written to Turnbull over the years and he used to be open to alternative debates over climate change. However I notice green lobbyists target politicians – particularly ones in power. WWF seem to have a strong history of doing this. They seem to get on with politicians to influence as much as possible.
Turnbull I thought was bright but cannot understand this except for the reasons youve given. As public perception of climategate expands and law suites start I think the likes of Turnbull and Rudd will be history. But whether that will be too late for the rest of us.
I think there are a lot of labor MPs who are skeptics and these also need to stand up to KRudd

Ron de Haan
November 26, 2009 5:04 am

Hopes for a treaty at Copenhagen rise after this came out:
Obviously the Chinese Government has not taken notice of Climategate and even if they did, eliminating the free world by undersigning a climate treaty must be the Chinese’s ultimate wet dream.

November 26, 2009 5:19 am

No mater how the media spins it, the truth can and does get out.
Australians are to be congratulated on defeating the AGW promotion community in this round of the fight.
Now we need someone in the US to leak GISS e-mails and show us how sausage is made in the world of Hansen and Schmidt.

Pompous Git
November 26, 2009 5:40 am

Informal (Deadman) wrote: “I can’t vote, so I comment on websites.”
And write funny parodies about our politicians 🙂 Perhaps you could write something about the current situation.
For the vast majority who don’t know this fine classical scholar and logician, he changed his name by deedpoll to Informal when he stood for election some years ago. Unfortunately, the Electoral Commissioner won’t accept the name change, so while he is free to stand for election, he cannot vote. You can’t make this stuff up 🙂

November 26, 2009 5:43 am

Rudd has lost a lot of popularity because of his immigration policy,THAT is what Aussie voters care about,I am not so sure that Rudd would win the next election,solely because the immigrants keep coming,now is not the right time for the opposition,Turnbull knows that.Another year of being flooded by immigrants,then the opposition has a chance.Turnbull is between a rock and a hard place.I still think he could have bluffed Rudd,and insisted on a delay,but Rudd may have called his bluff,and won handsomely,giving him the power to pass any ETS legislation he wants.There is only one person to blame for the ETS,that is will go through tomorrow,my faint hope is that Turnbull will hold out for the changes he wants,but Rudd will probably gain the upper hand by saying “double dissolution”.

November 26, 2009 5:46 am

I was trying to follow this late last night via The Australian and Australian Climate Madness–back benchers, front benchers, is 27 crossing the aisle enough?. I had to get some sleep. Thanks for some good news with my coffee, Anthony.

November 26, 2009 5:59 am

Keeps getting interesting.
Lateline (national late evening news program on ABC1 Australia) was devoted almost entirely to this issue. An absolute rarity, they had a sceptical contributer Senator Bernardi of the Liberal party. This ETS may or may not pass yet; I’ll be holding my breath until at least 3.45pm Friday Australian time (the apparent deadline, unless a postponement is moved and accepted in the senate).
This may look like an Australian issue, but I suspect it’s a microcosm representative of other places (or maybe I just hope that). The defecting senators discussed above, described a “flood”, “torrent” etc of grass roots commentary, emails, phone calls and so on, damning the ETS and demanding their members and senators vote it down. I hope that latent and mostly silent group are present everywhere.
a jones (00:27:22); apologies assumed you were in the U.S. – I should have realised it was not a sociable time in the states for someone to be posting. Good that this is a transnational dialogue.

The Iconoclast
November 26, 2009 6:10 am

Due to quoting of emails within other emails, there are actually as many as 2429 messages, not 1073. No doubt some of the emails appear multiple times, but it would not be difficult to locate quoted emails that do not appear as originals and highlight them for examination, etc.

November 26, 2009 6:11 am

Oh dear – more strange data found
If that link doesn’t work – its the first post on page 12 of this blog

Douglas DC
November 26, 2009 6:13 am

I’m old enough to remember the Union Pacific Challenger Locomotives- the Wheel arrangement was 4-6-6-4 they were/are BIG.They made lots of smoke and noise,
watching one move a heavy freight out of the yard was amazing.Now where am I going?
Well,climategate is like a heavy frieght being pulled by that Challenger.Slowly almost imperceptibly,The drivers and rods move, as the Hogger moves the throttle forward.
A little wheel slip,then she bites.This is where we are at. Climategate’s pulling out of the yard. Pretty soon it will hit the tangent and the line is clear.The no one can ignore
it as the symphony of sound,steam,smoke,-and weight, moves down the track. Up ahead, running the gated crossing is the AGW donkey cart. The Donkey being smart
has bailed but the owners of the cart struggle mightily to get it off the tracks ignoring the 75 mph heavy freight coming at them.
Just for grins:
Caution-lots of smoke and noise. If offered a life of being a Shuttle Command pilot
or an Engineer of a Challenger of Big Boy-I’d have to think about it…

Douglas DC
November 26, 2009 6:15 am

“or an Engineer or a Challenger of Big Boy-I’d have to think about it…”
-too early in the Western US ….

James F. Evans
November 26, 2009 6:31 am

If there was a vote in the U.S. Senate, today (there isn’t, thankfully), likely something similar would happen (mutiny among Democratic senators).
Fortunately, among senate Republicans there are only a handful of individuals who might’ve voted (sen. Lindsey Graham, R – S.C.) for cap & trade — now — those votes are questionable at best.
“Implosion” is the best descriptive for what has happened to the politics of AGW.

November 26, 2009 6:39 am

Robinson (01:50:23) :
> A quick question: is Joanne Nova a media personality in Aus, or just a blogger?
I believe both, well, not “just” a blogger. She and David Evans are married Excerpts from and
In the last two years Joanne has focused on the science of monetary systems, financial history, the gold market, and has also become heavily involved in communicating the science of carbon’s role in Climate Change. Joanne attended the UNFCCC in Bali Dec 07 as a delegate, has spoken in New York at the International Climate Change Conference, and to Staffers of the US Senate in Washington, as well as to Australian leaders of business and banking at Consilium, for the Centre for Independent Studies.
On Radio
For two years Joanne talked each week on 2CN in Canberra as well as other stations in country WA, Geelong, Brisbane. In the five minute prime-time spot she discussed the news and science of things like sperm, cooking, health and sleep. Joanne once filled in for the ever popular Dr Karl Kruszelnicki on ABC stations around Australia.
Joanne Nova finished her Bachelor of Science degree with first class honours, A+ grades and both the FH Faulding, and The Swan Brewery Prizes, at the University of Western Australia. She majored in Microbiology, Molecular Biology and doing honours research into DNA markers for use in Muscular Dystrophy trials. She also has a Graduate Certificate in Science Communication from the ANU, and worked for three years as an Associate Lecturer for the Graduate Diploma in Science Communication program at the Australian National University.

Mr Enough
November 26, 2009 6:48 am

Iren (00:44:48) :
Turnbull is ex Goldman Sachs and once in Goldman, forever in Goldman.
Goldman are going into Carbon tradeing big time see this
Google Goldman carbon trading and you’ll get loads of hits.
Also read Matt Taibbi’s wonderful hit job on Goldman in Rolling Stone Mag, which ends by talking about how much money they hope to make from Carbon trading…….

November 26, 2009 6:54 am

P Gosselin (02:03:42) :

I heard that 160 MB of data were taken, yet only 60 MB have been released so far.

You may be confused about the .zip file and the contents. Breaking things down a few ways, my system reports:
tux:FOIA> du -hs *
159M documents
9.8M mail
tux:FOIA> du -hs documents/*
5.4M documents/080214_SUNYA_draft.pdf
168K documents/080222_ZMZeng_Inputs.pdf
60K documents/Adam budget.doc
104K documents/ADAM second-order draft.pdf
2.8M documents/AR4SOR_BatchAB_Ch06-KRB-1stAug.doc
40K documents/A Report of the Successful Grant Writing Meeting 22 Nov 2000.doc
8.0K documents/
48M documents/briffa-treering-external
52K documents/circ_inconsistency.doc
1.5M documents/communicating_cc.pdf
32M documents/cru-code
308K documents/CRU-COF_Report.pdf
24K documents/CRU-sr-external-input.pdf
36K documents/CRU strategic review agenda 1.doc
7.6M documents/defra.pdf
52K documents/ECLAT2.doc
12K documents/EMULATE-corrections
2.7M documents/EURO4M_DoW_v2.doc
72K documents/Extreme2100.pdf
76K documents/extremes.wp
128K documents/Fisher.txt
56K documents/fundingcomments.doc
4.0K documents/greenpeace.txt
505K documents/hadcrut3_gmr+defra_report_200503.pdf
221K documents/harris-tree
705K documents/HARRY_READ_ME.txt
416K documents/hot-proposal.doc
84K documents/ianh-greenpeace-ships.jpg
1.9M documents/idl_cruts3_2005_vs_2008b.pdf
4.0K documents/ipcc-santer2.txt
40K documents/ipcc-tar-master2.rtf
40K documents/ipcc-tar-master.rtf
24K documents/jones-foiathoughts.doc
3.2M documents/kbmisc
5.3M documents/kbtree
5.9M documents/krbfshi2.doc
32K documents/letter to Mike – 13.10.06.doc
36K documents/magicc-tomike.doc
132K documents/MannHouseReply.pdf
324K documents/Mann uncertainty.doc
56K documents/mannuncert.txt
116K documents/marooned.jpg
14M documents/
4.0K documents/mkhadcrut
712K documents/osborn-tree3
198K documents/osborn-tree4
508K documents/osborn-tree5
2.8M documents/osborn-tree6
24K documents/pdj_grant_since1990.xls
28K documents/potential-funding.doc
60K documents/prescient.doc
68K documents/RAPID-briffa-description-16jul.doc
28K documents/review_mannetal.doc
32K documents/Review of Wahl&Amman.doc
28K documents/Review-Santer-et-al-2008.doc
32K documents/review_schmidt.doc
296K documents/RulesOfTheGame.pdf
32K documents/santer-etal2008review03052008.doc
24K documents/SanteretalSciencereview.doc
36K documents/sealevel_params.doc
2.7M documents/Skagerrak-Foram-2010.doc
4.1M documents/SOAP
104K documents/TC Research Funding.doc
24K documents/tdutch.pdf
20K documents/tims contracts.xls
116K documents/trend_profiles_dogs_dinner.png
140K documents/tyndall-targets.doc
6.1M documents/uea-models.ppt
24K documents/uea-tyndall-shell-memo.doc
32K documents/unit-proposal.doc
1.6M documents/volc.doc
6.3M documents/yamal
This is disk space used, a little higher than bytes of data. (Think of the empty space at the bottom of the last page of a book or other document.) is mine (a program to look ar To: and From: lines in Email looking for who are in the loop and looking for Emails that don’t list UEA in the lists).
A lot of file in documents may have been attachments to Emails, I may look into that later today. Most files without extensions (e.g. documents/cru-code are directories with a lot of other stuff, like the code described in Poor Harry’s Diary.)

November 26, 2009 7:03 am

Looks like it’s all falling apart.
No matter what anybody says, the climate data sets are so polluted with crap, they are worthless for any real science.
Next time, try open science.

Gary Pearse
November 26, 2009 7:07 am

Any Aussies here should send links to the rest of the Liberal MPs in case climategate hasn’t crossed their desks.

Mike UK
November 26, 2009 7:15 am
November 26, 2009 7:21 am

Geoff C (00:18:08) :
“so he (Rudd) can fulfill his duel ambition of being let onto the UN security council, and one day being the head of the UN. Don’t let him, please, US voters.”
LOL, theres a clause in the UN Charter that barrs citizens of any nation sitting on the Security Council from becoming General Secretary of the UN, which is intended to prevent any SC member from gaining too much power. So Rudd can have one or the other but only UNSG first THEN SC for AU after….

November 26, 2009 7:33 am

Gregg E. (00:46:39) :
“It always strikes me as an odd thing in so many countries where a batch of politicians will just up and quit or withdraw from an election when things get tough. How can they affect (or effect) things when they *quit*?”
Mass resignations are intended to confer illegitimacy upon the rump organization that is left, to force a crisis in party or in government. In some governments, if you get enough resignations, the rump that is left is less than a quorum and the government is unable to function, which forces new elections, or in the case of the US government, would put us in a situation akin to the beginning of the US Civil War, when the southern states walked out of congress, leaving a rump unable to pass legislation legally. Lincoln and the rump congress (the republicans and a few democrats) violated the constitution in passing legislation but did rightly declare the southern states walkout as an attack on the Constitution, because an error of the founders was that they failed to include a measure to deal with rump situations. The Constitution and the nation we knew as the united States of America was dissolved and broken. The nation we now have may claim to use the same document but is an entirely different country.

November 26, 2009 7:36 am

Hot item from Detroit News–puts-warming-in-question
I compared Googl and Bling search engines. Only looked at the first page of each but it seemed that they were returning similar results and had decent coverage.
Steamboat Jack

Spenc BC
November 26, 2009 7:45 am

Went to supper last night with five of my campus colleagues. Professors all of us and one a scientist. Not one of them has heard of Climategate or the emails. None of my close associates here in Canada are aware of this information. Blogging will not stop this train. Governments will still move ahead with cap and trade. Like I said, the train is well out of the station and at full speed. I will be amazed if we can stop it based on this info leak. Unless MSM start getting honest all of a sudden, the fix is in I fear! Don’t hold your breath for MSN.
PS Turnbull still has majority support in his party, unless more defect soon!

November 26, 2009 7:51 am
November 26, 2009 7:54 am

P Gosselin (02:03:42) :
I heard that 160 MB of data were taken, yet only 60 MB have been released so far.
Can we expect another bomb to be unloaded?
Or is that it?
Is the rest going to be unloaded during Copenhagen to embarass it? (Or am i getting carried away with fantasies?)

It is a 160 MB of data but when zipped it is 60 MB lol… See even here we have issues with measurements.

November 26, 2009 7:57 am

I am planning to send the following letter to the prime minister of Canada and the leader of the opposition. I thought I would run it by WUWT readers to see if I have it essentially correct.
Dear Prime Minister Harper,
I am a historian of science who has long been concerned about the propaganda being used to advance an agenda that will cripple the economies of the developed nations based on so-called climate science. The recent revelations of the abuse of due scientific process revealed by the leaked correspondence of the University of East Anglia’s Climatic Research Unit shows a persistent and deliberate to derail legitimate scientific scrutiny and criticism of the findings of CRU, NOAA’s GISS, and other climate research centres. Although the main-stream media and politicians have not given this story the attention it deserves, the scandal will not go away. That is because these e-mails reveal the following:
1) refusal to share data so that other scientists can verify the results being propounded by the advocates of the theory of anthropogenic global warming – a violation of scientific protocol
2) perverting the editorial boards of scientific journals through intimidating editors to not allow dissenting articles to be published; or even having editors sympathetic to other theories dismissed
3) deliberate alteration of findings through superimposing different types of data sets from totally different studies (i.e. dendochronology as temperature proxies + actual temperature from surface stations) because using one continuous series did not give the results aimed at by the climatologists
4) slagging the reputations of scientists who were critical of their work, or who held differing theories, not only privately but publicly; or claiming that specialists in other fields that are clearly pertinent to the data analysis were not competent to do this work because not “real” climate scientists, to mislead mainstream media outlets
5) analysis of their computer codes shows the use of imaginary data due to the incompetence in computer coding by the scientists and their subsequent need to invent data to fill in gaps
6) promotion of wildly exaggerated computer models based on this shoddy and incompetent use of flawed data
7) rather than being dispassionate seekers of scientific truth, these “scientists” have perverted the course of science though acting as activists in such a way as to alarm the public and also to benefit their own research budgets and reputations
If you think that this scandal is going to disappear, you do not understand how science works. Scientists in all fields have been intimidated (as have I, a university academic) from widely disseminating their scepticism about the so-called findings, models, and predictions by the bullying methods of political correctness – being seen as anti-environmental, flat-earthers in denial of scientific truth, or being seen as supporting the “wrong” kind of politics. However, now that the extent of the corruption of science has been revealed, more and more scientists are going to speak out, since science itself will suffer if this situation is not corrected.
It is essential that you realize that most of the IPCC statements are based on the findings of Hadley-CRU data and models, together with the work of scientists at the also heavily implicated NOAA-GISS . Indeed, as one who has been following this story for nearly a decade, out of professional interest, I am aware that most of the scientists who collaborated on the IPCC reports who were not part of the self-styled “Hockey Team” (the inner scientists at Hadley, CRU, and GISS) – or their hangers on – had strong reservations about the final versions of the reports: most of their caveats, which indicated that the predictions being made were flawed, incorrect or exaggerated, were dropped from the final version. It would be criminal to endorse political policies that will threaten the well-being of ordinary people and especially (and inevitably) the poorest in society at the upcoming meeting in Copenhagen based on the threatening findings of these organizations, which have turned out to be mere, threatening, fairy-tales.
I plead with you to do the right thing and not commit Canada to international agreements based on a fantasy: please wait for real science to be done. While there is indeed a need to take action to reduce real pollution, the measures that are proposed at Copenhagen will do little to address this, and will in effect be worse than doing nothing.

November 26, 2009 8:02 am

In the case of the resignations of Liberal Party members, it is a convention, in State and Federal parliaments that shadow ministers must vote according to the decision of the party room. Backbenchers, though expected to vote as ordered by the leadership, have slightly more freedom. In some rare occasions, such as when voting for legislation on abortion or euthanasia, the Labor Party (which has stricter rules against ‘crossing the floor’) as well as the Liberal Party allow what they call a “conscience vote” whereby an MP may vote as his or her conscience suggests for or against a bill. (It is interesting how seldom MPs are allowed by their parties to vote as they wish; the people whom they reputably represent might be astonished by the lack of freedom of action enjoyed by their MPs.)
Anyway, resigning from the front bench does not mean that the MP will resign from Parliament. Considering that most MPs like, if nothing else, the extra perquisites which come from being on the front bench, no doubt most will manœuvre to regain their portfolios as soon as possible once the voting on the ETS bill is over.
Having said that, it is praiseworthy for these MPs to act on principle. Would that more do the same.

Spenc BC
November 26, 2009 8:05 am

Well put vigilantfish: I have done likewise. Spent three hours yesterday contacting every MP with a similar email.

November 26, 2009 8:06 am

… and by reputably I mean reputedly
It’s late; I’m tired; but I must find a way to hide the decline.

November 26, 2009 8:20 am

Breaking news: Canada’s CBC follows the BBC in a massive COVER UP.
There was an article released on Wednesday 25th attacking Canada’s Prime Minister Stephen Harper plan to NOT ATTEND Copenhoken.
There were over 465 comments relating to this article this morning (Thursdsay 26th), almost ALL 465 of the comments were cheering for Stephen Harper and condemning the Media and Western Politicians for perpetrating the now exposed (CRU Scandal) man-made Climate Change Fraud.
Well guess what – in one single wave of the magic ‘COVER-UP WAND’ – there are NO COMMENTS today – the slate has been wiped clean – none of the comments existed.
Here is a link
….SHRED SHRED SHRED …..465 Comments GONE – eradictaed by disciples of David Suzuki, Anne Tremonti and the CBC THOUGHT POLICE
This was (until this morning) the MOST popular read article on CBC website – THAT TOO HAS BEEN FIXED!!!!!
History being re-written by CBC “pravda”.

Spenc BC
November 26, 2009 8:25 am

Yeh a similar event at the Globe and Mail, only now all you see is “so and so’s comments were abusive and have been removed.” There is an army of Liberal vols. writing in to complain about posts and the GM policy is to remove a comment after so many complaints. Some of these people are using four computers with four handles and IP addresses.

November 26, 2009 8:29 am

You may find this article heartening:
Malcolm Turnbull felled by grassroots revolt
Dennis Shanahan, Political editor
The Australian
November 27, 2009 12:00AM
MALCOLM Turnbull’s leadership has been destroyed in a spectacular and unprecedented fashion.
For the first time, a grassroots revolt by local Liberal branches and members has brought down the leader of the parliamentary Liberal Party…
The battle is not over yet, but it appears that the ETS will be delayed until February, after the failure at Copenhagen. This gives the Opposition time to campaign on issues like Climategate, the divergence problem, YAD061, the latest NZ data “adjustment” fraud and the expense and economic carnage of a pointless ETS tax.
The fact that a Liberal leader, as high profile as Malcolm Turnbull, has been rolled on this, forces a public re-examination the “science” of Climate Change that had previously been accepted as received wisdom, to discover why the Liberal party has gone into revolt. Copenhagen will keep it in the news over summer, and its failure will remind people to the cynical reality of the politics long after the popular hagiography of Kyoto.
This is an incredible opening to turn back almost 20 years of watermelon agitprop, fraudulent “science” and myth making alarmism with a real debate on the merits of the “science” and the economics and politics of an ETS tax. This is a summer that Australia must win.

November 26, 2009 8:33 am

It is useful to add that at the last Federal Election in Australia both the current government (ALP) and the then government (Liberal) ran on a platform of introducing an ETS during the next term of government. My feeling is that if Turnbull gets dumped he will at least be able to find 5 or 6 mates to cross the floor with him and vote for the ETS, especially as 45 of them chose to keep him as leader only yesterday. The scpetics are getting loud and vocal, but even at the height of the argument they don’t have the numbers it seems.
Dire days for the Libs who got drowned in an internal feud of sceptics vs non-sceptics when they should have been targeting the many flaws in the proposed ETS (or CPRS as it is called). THe Greens oppose it as it is not based in the mainstream science… it is very much an ETS for the sake of it, and the sake is crushing the crippled Liberal party. I’ve commented in other places that you;d oppose the CPRS based on science whether you were a warmist or a sceptic… only a political agenda would make you back it.
Malcolm Turnbull is their only hope really. Who else do they have… well no one who disagrees with him. Hockey gets mentioned but he is a Turnbull man. Abbott is not going to win over the middle ground. Can they get Costello back? although he would have backed an ETS too I think.

November 26, 2009 8:37 am

The comments are there right now at 8.34 AM PT.. 521 of them.
Still waiting for main article.

Dean McAskil
November 26, 2009 8:38 am

For those Australians reading.
As a lifelong Liberal (conservative) voter I never liked Turnbull, particularly because he was a republican (in Aussie speak: anti-monarchist [our sovereign QEII]) however I was willing to let him have a go because he is a working class boy made good.
But his green AGW faith is symptomatic of a populist and shallow mind, with a tin ear for politics. I have not spoken to a conservative voter in the last few weeks that did not plee; “Malcolm, don’t let the door hit your arse on the way out.”
The real problem here is that the centre of the party, like the Prime Minister, see this as a political problem, assuming the AGW hypothesis is a populist given. What they don’t understand is that for us scientific rationalists it is a “die in a ditch” issue.
I am glad at heart that many of the front bench have made the ultimate political sacrifice for this issue.
I think Turbull is genuinely shocked because he just doesn’t have the depth of soul to understand the import of this issue to the grass roots of his own party.
The ETS is likely to be passed but I am going to once again join the party for the soul purpose of making sure those that voted for the ETS are dis-endorsed at the next election.

Leon Brozyna
November 26, 2009 8:39 am

And the story continues to grow — typed in climategate at Google and got 7 million returns; at Bing it’s even bigger, at 48 million returns. And of course the fluff and puff lamestream media remains clueless; is it any wonder that the perky one anchors at CBS — she’s the poster child for the state of the lamestream media journalism.

Bruce Cobb
November 26, 2009 8:47 am

Steve (04:11:40) :
This graph convinced David Attenborough that ‘global warming’ was anthropogenic.Can someone point out the fault with it and maybe set him straight? (He’s a very influential person to the man in the street).I originally saw a better quality copy but you can make it out still.

Paul Mcrae did a pretty good commentary on that “interview”, which he refers to as a hosing, a good description:
Too bad Attenborough had to ask Peter Cox, one of the 26 quacks who came up with the recent Copenhagen (Mis) – Diagnosis:
Sadly, he seemed only interested in one side of the story. The emotional appeal of “saving the planet” has a way of trumping the interest in the truth and in actual science.

Spenc BC
November 26, 2009 8:57 am

Thanks Herchen,
I was referring to a different article a day or so ago. Will try to find URL

Dean McAskil
November 26, 2009 9:04 am

One would assume that many of those in the AGW alarmist community would now be quoting Bender; “Uh oh, we’re boned.”
But that assumes a degree of self awareness that the last ten years would deny.

Roger Knights
November 26, 2009 11:06 am

“This may look like an Australian issue, but I suspect it’s a microcosm representative of other places (or maybe I just hope that). The defecting senators discussed above, described a “flood”, “torrent” etc of grass roots commentary, emails, phone calls and so on, damning the ETS and demanding their members and senators vote it down. I hope that latent and mostly silent group are present everywhere.”
Politicians elsewhere will notice if this public pressure causes a real ruckus in Australia. Even if Rudd gets his bill passed, that mightn’t be a defeat for us. It would make an even greater impact on foreign politicians if a tremendous uproar in the streets and in the media followed. E.g., real publicity given to climate change critics in op eds and televised debates.

November 26, 2009 11:06 am

P Gosselin (02:03:42) :
I heard that 160 MB of data were taken, yet only 60 MB have been released so far.

Rumor, I think; fostered by foggy discussions of the acquired file’s original form/format (a ZIP file), it’s zip size (62 MB) versus it’s re-inflated size (~147 MB depending on target system hard drive cluster size) and perhaps an embedded zip file buried within one of the directories (a zip within a zip)

Roger Knights
November 26, 2009 11:17 am

You can’t make this stuff up …
… Oh wait, they did!

November 26, 2009 11:23 am

Now THAT is what I call honest to goodness political opposition! It’s the kind of opposition that failed to rear its head in Westminster, allowing the enconomy anihiliting Energy Bill to pass without so much as a raised eyebrow. But then, since our blessed Tory Shadow Chancellor is still wittering on about carbon footprints and reducing global temperature despite the CRUgate scandal, perhaps it isn’t so surprising after all…

Dr A Burns
November 26, 2009 12:24 pm

The Australian article is a “feature” story, not a mainstream article.
Here’s a story that is spreading like wildfire on the net with ClimateGate getting 7.2M hits on google this morning, (now one of the highest ranking search terms) yet the news of a trillion dollar global scam, and temperature data fraud in NZ and US, is being ignored by the press (except for UK Telegraph, Fox News, blogs, features and bits and pieces). Why isn’t it on the front pages of every newspaper ? Are we just seeing the tip of the iceberg of a conspiracy ?

November 26, 2009 1:34 pm

It sounds like we need a coyote radio station to beam the truth into Australia! The Climate Underground!

November 26, 2009 1:43 pm

Now in The Australian:
There is speculation Turnbull may realise the inevitable and resign, perhaps causing enough turmoil to avoid a vote on the Aussie ETS bill. Wishgul thinking perhaps, but I wish for it to be true.

November 26, 2009 1:44 pm

I suppose I can take 0.000001% of the credit for all this. My 15+ emails must have had some effect. I was completely gobsmacked last night listening to Malcolm Turnbull. Who would have thought him either completely mad or suicidal? Interesting times indeed. I will be bereft if the ETS passes. I don’t have the know how to start or manage a “Repeal the ETS” movement but I’m up for a fight and will help anyone in Oz who wants to start it. Let’s hope it’s not needed. *crosses fingers*
Ummm Malcolm? “Here’s your hat. What’s your hurry?” Other MPs and Senators? We are watching and we WILL remember who voted in what way!

November 26, 2009 1:52 pm

Being in the UK, the Australian system is similar to ours, the difference being that only one house is elected here.
There have been efforts to reform the Lords, (the unelected house), largely by getting rid of the hereditary peers, (members).
What this means is that every government gets the chance to stack the upper house.
Strangely, before the reforms, hereditary peers managed to keep a good balance & prevented extremes of both sides of the political divide.
I can’t see that the reforms have improved anything, at least Christopher Lord Monckton, Viscount Brenchley would have been a voting member.
I also see that people are still mistaking HARRY_READ_ME.txt as Harrys diary
This is how I see it.
1) A professional programmer was brought in to try & make sense of Tims program.
2) He saw the mess & decided to keep a diary.
3) He/she left/was fired, renamed the diary & told Harry there was something there for him to read.
You may ask why I think that was the chronology.
1) if it was a running commentary to Harry, there would have been either,
a) multiple files or
b) a very short file (the last message)

November 26, 2009 2:01 pm

I just heard Dr Dennis Jensen MP on the radio. He’s a local member in WA and (as far as I know) the only scientist in parliament. He has a PhD in a field of science (I think physics) and has been a vocal opponent to the ETS in parliament. I emailed him yesterday saying to keep up the fight even tho I can’t vote for him as I’m on the other side of the country. He has put one of his full time staff on purely to forward all his emails on to Malcolm Turnbull. If anyone would like to email Dr Jensen (and then have them forwarded to Mr Turnbull) his contact page is here
With emails going thru a 3rd party Mr Turnbull can’t deny that he knows about the opposition to the ETS. Go for it..

November 26, 2009 2:12 pm

Looks like Turnbull wont last the day and KRudds ETS is scuttled

Roger Knights
November 26, 2009 2:18 pm

“I don’t have the know how to start or manage a “Repeal the ETS” movement but I’m up for a fight and will help anyone in Oz who wants to start it.”
Here’s an idea. Have ETS opponents gather round the airport and give Turnbull a sendoff to Copenhagen with a coordinated chorus of boos. (Ditto for the Kiwi PM.) That’ll make the news, if the gathering(s) are large enough. Man, imagine if 100,000 came! That would send a message to politicians worldwide: Ça ira!

Roger Knights
November 26, 2009 2:20 pm

PS: Let’s hope he leaves during the evening or on a weekend, when protesters have free time. (Is there any way to find out his schedule?)

November 26, 2009 2:22 pm

The amazing thing here is that even if passed, the Australian ETS is not due to start for another 18 months or so, in 2011. And yet Rudd and Wong are trying to ram it through now.
“The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane”. Marcus Aurelius – Roman Emperor.

Malcolm Miller
November 26, 2009 2:33 pm

A lot of people are kidding themselves about the power of Climategate. Most of the population has never heard of it. Neither have most politicians. They are similarly fooling themselves over the size of the Climategate files – 60 mb not 160.
The mainstream media. have ignored climategate. Just as they have had a win with The Big Lie about man-made climate change, so they will have a win with The Big Ignore.
REPLY: The 60 MB is the size of the compressed Zip file. Extracted and uncompressed it expands to about 160 MB of total files size.- Anthony

November 26, 2009 2:37 pm

The latest is that Tony Abbot has this morning (Oz time) confirmed that he will challenge for the leadership.
If Mr Turnbull ‘refuses to change his mind [on backing Climate change legislation] on Friday [presume he means today] there will be a leadership spill on Monday.’
Truely at this moment, the history of Oz politics is turning on the fact or fiction of this science.
I have watch those jokers interviewed on Fox. In Oz we dont need that sort of shouting match. Believers will just shut down. Dunno who You have got in USA, but I would like to see come lately greenies careerists like Tim Flannery and also Clive Hamilton really challenged.
Tim Flannery
Clive Hamilton discussed here:

November 26, 2009 2:42 pm

I don’t think the Kiwi PM (John Key) is going to Copenhagen, even though Jim Salinger and Lucy Lawless tried to give him a free plane ticket. He has just pushed an ETS through Parliament, but its a pretty thin and scrawny ETS (and I don’t think he ever expects to have to implement it).

November 26, 2009 2:45 pm

A small correction: the ETS isn’t Turnbull’s, it’s the (Labor) Government’s ETS scheme. Turnbull is backing the ETS with amendments, where as Liberal policy previously said that no decision should be made in supporting any ETS prior to Copenhagen.
Still, good news all round. The worm is finally turning here.

November 26, 2009 2:48 pm

Thanks LilacWine: I’ve just emailed Dr Jenson with my support for his position and my total condemnation of this stupid ETS.

Patrick Davis
November 26, 2009 3:19 pm

“Steve (04:11:40) :
This graph convinced David Attenborough that ‘global warming’ was anthropogenic.Can someone point out the fault with it and maybe set him straight? (He’s a very influential person to the man in the street).I originally saw a better quality copy but you can make it out still.”
From memory, he also supported the then (Circa 1970) concensus of a coming ice age. Go figure!

November 26, 2009 4:11 pm

Looks like Turnbull is now the one in denial:
Doesn’t seem to know when to step down.

November 26, 2009 4:49 pm

The Australian seems to be censoring comments on their pages. What are other people finding? Concern about replacing Turnbull with Hockey as he is another alarmist, Abbot is a true skeptic.
Some in the party may well think Hockey is a compromise, when he in fact will be more like a rerun. The Liberals cannot be a Labor party and survive.

November 26, 2009 5:04 pm

Also its time for Labor Politicians also to have a conscience vote instead of blindly following K Rudd! It is simply not good enough for those who are skeptical of global warming to sit their silent – they must stand up and speak out like those in the Liberal and National parties have. That way we can get a full bipartisan approach to stop an appalling policy based on climate fraud decimating Australia.
You can vote here in the daily telegraph as to who you prefer to lead the liberals;

November 26, 2009 6:03 pm
November 26, 2009 7:42 pm

Starting to look like the Liberal Party leadership issue may be on hold till next week, but that it is premature to vote on the ETS, given that so few of the latest amendments have been debated in Parliament.
So hopefully Australia has bought a couple months breathing room to educate the representatives about all things ClimateGate. If the message goes out on enough channels about how CRU cooked the books of the IPCC, we may get some sensible debate on the science rather than poorly drafted ETS legislation pushed through for political purposes.
If the climate becomes a political talking point in a double dissolution election, expect all the dirty CRU laundry to come out to air.

November 26, 2009 9:50 pm

The ETS bill failed to pass today, there will be a resitting on Monday. If that fails then it’s all over , the momentum has shifted.
It’s the phone calls and emails that are making this happen! True democracy in action. Even those that would have voted for the ETS yesterday have apologised to their colleagues this morning and will now vote NO. Turnbull is finished.
All Australians, call or email your Federal Representatives! Melt down those phones!
Representatives by State

November 26, 2009 9:57 pm

Just got off the phone with an old friend in Australia… small business owner… tends to vote Labour and HAS NOT HEARD about climategate or CRUtape. I think most Aussies are thinking in terms of politics as usual… an upstart in the opposition is trying to elbow out the leader. The Sydney Herald and the Daily Telegraph do not seem to be carrying our message. Anyone with connections in OZ need to contact them. Refer them back here. It is not a Liberal-Labour issue, it is a statist – freedom issue.

November 26, 2009 10:07 pm

Aussies, the reason this is happening is because of the thousands of emails and phone calls the Opposition has been receiving against this ETS, especially since Climategate broke here just over 1 week ago.
Keep up the pressure, email your senators:

Michael R
November 26, 2009 10:31 pm

“Just got off the phone with an old friend in Australia… small business owner… tends to vote Labour and HAS NOT HEARD about climategate or CRUtape.”
This is very common in Australia at the moment. Everyone I have spoken to here is none the wiser. I believe it has a lot to do with the fact the main stations (TV) have barely touched it (I havent even found an article on either of the three stations).
I have however submitted a written complaint to the three stations several days ago about the lack of coverage, no response yet though, and have also given the complaint to local Labor and Liberal representative. My local Liberal rep is actually sceptical himself and phoned me after a dropped of docs a week or so ago to thank me and have a chat about it (one of the reasons I think its the Liberals that are stonewalling).
I have – in case any are not aware – forwarded on the details of the scandal and countless links to the Liberal Party this afternoon and thanking them for delaying the ETS Legislation. Unless I jump up and down naked on the Sydney Harbour Bridge with a sign that says “ClimateGate” on it, I am not sure I can do much more >.< . (Though if someone else feels like they wouldn't mind doing that, I am all for it 😉 )

November 26, 2009 11:01 pm

Michael R (22:31:25) :
Sorry. The Pillsbury Dough Boy looks hot next to me. Me dancing naked on a bridge would be… shall we say.. counter-productive…

Keith Minto
November 26, 2009 11:13 pm

It only takes 7 votes to pass. Senate sits 10am next Monday.
Keep up the pressure on the weekend, use the link provided by Grant above.

November 26, 2009 11:52 pm

In fairness Michael the article at the top is just about the only news being covered on Climate (or anything) in Australia, although certainly I’ve seen the ABC give some good coverage on Lateline. The collapse of the opposition is totally dominating everything else to the point that there is no room for climategate. Even the out and out sceptics in the Libs are more interested in a news snippet pilling pressure on turnbull just relating to passing the bill pre-copenhagen and positioning for the beig leadership spill on Tuesday.
There is just no room for CLimategate, and that is of the skeptics making to be fair.

King of Cool
November 27, 2009 1:27 am

I have just watched Turnbull on the 7.30 report and Monty Python’s Black Knight sums him up to a tee.
He is worse than Hitler in the final days and every kamikaze pilot that was aimed at a US carrier. He appears to be trying his utmost to destroy the political party he led by stating that the view of its core element counts for nothing and it is only he and Kevin Rudd that know how to save the planet.
It will be interesting to see who leads the party now that Turnbull is going to struggle all the way to the execution chamber as Hockey has stated he will not oppose Turnbull if he stands for re-election as leader. That leaves the mad monk Tony Abbott – a very conservative but wily politician. If elected, his first test will be whether he is prepared to take on the Government in an election completing opposing any ETS or whether it will be ‘wait until after Copenhagen’.
I still see this crisis arising purely because there has been no real debate on Climate Change and the stifling by the MSM of all opposing views of AGW. People must be allowed to listen to all sides of the argument thoroughly and fairly and then decide what is the best way for the world to proceed. Until this is done there is going to be further turmoil and even bloodshed in the future as I see this as a challenge to democracy itself. If it was not for the internet and forums like this, there is no doubt that we would all be following an unchallenged doctrine just like the brownshirts did in Nazi Germany.

November 27, 2009 4:19 am

MP John Redwood, almost certainly the smartest guy in Parliament & therefore on the back benches, has referred to the Australian meltdown & called for a public enquiry here. Such enquiries are very good ways to change directrion without embarrasment since nobody can be against one & if it comes up with a conclusion different to current policy nobody can then be faulted for changing.

Nick Yates
November 27, 2009 5:33 am

The Channel 7 morning program ‘Sunrise’ did a whitewash job on the emails yesterday morning. See it here.
It started of well but they always wheel out Nick Rowley to finish off with plenty of misinformation. I emailed them to complain.

November 27, 2009 5:59 am

Bolta was on PM tonight and did an excellent job I thought, despite all the attempts tpo sidetrack him.

November 27, 2009 9:42 am

Thanks for the link to the audio clip Ripper. Great to hear Bolta on the ABC. I don’t think the interviewer wanted to hear what he had to say but hopefully some listeners got the message. For those not in Oz, the ABC is the government broadcaster. It’s supposed to be independent and non-biased but their colours show through with almost everything they do. They are great supporters of the left and ceased to hide their leanings many years ago. How I miss Andrew Olle. Apparently even his friends didn’t know which way he voted. He was impartial as a good journalist should be. Those ethics have just about disappeared from the ABC with the loss of Andrew Olle.
The only bright hope they have is Chris Uhlmann who does seem to see beyond the superficial. I don’t know what he thinks of the whistle blower/hacking revelations though. This is what he said about the AGW hysteria a year ago: “As a former Seminarian, one of the things that strikes me most strongly about this debate is its theological nature, and that’s essentially that we have sinned against the environment, that we are now being punished and the only way that we can escape that punishment is to wear a hairshirt for the rest of our lives and hope that in the next life, and our children’s lives, and our children’s children’s lives, that things will get better.” Here’s a link to the interview (from the Insiders, July 2008).
As for Malcolm Turnbull? They say a week is a long time in politics. I think this weekend will seem like a decade to Malcolm.

November 28, 2009 5:08 pm

Sorry, O/T: I tried to post the following on the BBC blog of Richard Black. It was ‘referred to the moderators’ three times. I was trying to imagine what the people that have invested the most in AGW as a way to control the masses would talk like, and yes, I was being facetious. I seem to have hit a raw nerve as my comment was ‘referred to moderators’ each of the three times. This happened very quickly. After I posted the comment I kept refreshing the page to see if the comment would pass through the moderation process, but it was referred unbelievably quickly between two of my refreshes. There wasn’t enough time for it to go live before it was referred to the moderators.
So, is there something in this post that is offensive, or that the BBC would have a reason for not publishing on Richard Black’s blog? I’d really like to know if someone can come up with a reason why this comment was rejected:
…So, John, are the BBC are still onside? Has this disgusting theft of data that “the stock”, (well at least the ones with brains), are calling ‘Climategate’ got out of control, or can the MSM be relied upon to keep it quiet until after Copenhagen?
Yes sir, I believe it can be contained until after Copenhagen. The BBC has mentioned it, but only in passing, they’ve not gone into detail about what the e-mails say or what the previously hidden data shows, neither have most of the UK press. Lucky for us – if the BBC and the rest of the MSM had consisted of proper journalists our cause would have been lost. The green fools at the BBC are acting exactly as we expected to when we put them in place, (let’s face it, Tamsin, who” loves seals” gets a job as an environmental researcher, and doesn’t question why someone with her limited brain capacity does so is hardly likely to protest against a cover up of this magnitude). They are so wrapped up in spreading their green message that they haven’t realised that they are walking back into slavery. It’s another story overseas though.
Well, John, as we both know, most of “the stock”, the brainless cattle that we own and control, are too busy fiddling with their stupid little mobile phones and watching mind numbing rubbish like The X Factor to be looking on the internet for a hushed up story about climate change being a scam. Even then, we can still rely on some marginally intelligent greens to go on blogs saying that there’s nothing going on, there’s nothing to see.
The poor pathetic clowns that they are, they don’t know they’re willingly walking back into the unending indenture that their grandparents fought their way out of. If only all of our stock were so gullible!
As we have been saying for some years now, we let “the stock” have far too much freedom after the Second World War, we should have kept them under better control, like we did after World War One. We took our eye off the ball and now they don’t have any respect for their masters. It’s time to give them back that respect – it’s time to remind them that they belong to us, it’s time to let them know what they are – Stock, for us to use and dispose of as we see fit. It’s time to make ‘Domestic Servant’ one of the most popular jobs again.
Now, in terms of Copenhagen, we’ve got fervent greens in most countries, who’ll believe any crap we sell them about saving the planet, and in the UK, Tony and Gordon have done a superb job of dumbing down “the stock”. But without China it’s meaningless. It’s so annoying that they already have control of their “Stock”, so they don’t need climate change to reassert that control. We’ll just have to make do with them supposedly making a commitment – we know these commitments mean nothing anyway. Hopefully by the time we start taking back control of “the stock” it’ll be too late for any of them to do a damn thing about it.
And remember John, we must stay in the shadows. We can only come out when the scales have tipped in our favour.

December 2, 2009 12:48 am

As the Climategate story unpeels throughout the Western world – in spite of the MSM efforts to spike it – I anticipate that elected representatives in legislatures everywhere will come to view “cap-and-trade” bilge like Australia’s ETS as political suicide.
Costly legislation like the ETS can be pushed down the voters’ throats only if they are sold as absolutely vital and undeniably urgent. And with the anthropogenic global warming (AGW) hypothesis now undeniably proven completely bogus –
(the global climate might well be changing, but human activities have nothing whatsoever to do with it)
– there is no way in which the “tax-unto-death” politicians can get any traction. Those who maintain their support for ETS are virtually guaranteed to get gutted like trout in the next elections. Their constituents will arrive at the polls with steam coming out their ears.
If the mainstream media will not discuss Climategate, the incumbents’ opponents certainly will.

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