By IAN TALLEY
WASHINGTON — Key Senate Democrats Tuesday said it is unlikely there will be any more major committee action on climate-change legislation this year, the strongest indication yet that a comprehensive bill to cut greenhouse-gas emissions won’t be voted on until at least next year.
Although the Senate Environment Committee last week approved a version of the bill, the proposal will face strong revisions from moderate Democrats, particularly from senators on the Finance and Agriculture committees.
“It’s common understanding that climate-change legislation will not be brought up on the Senate floor and pass the Senate this year,” Senate Finance Chairman Max Baucus said on the sidelines of a caucus lunch.
…
“I wouldn’t want to bet my paycheck that all the relevant committees will report out legislation by the end of this year,” said Sen. Thomas Carper (D., Del.).
Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D., Mich.), who is leading an effort by moderate, heartland Democrats to protect manufacturing and agriculture industries, said committees were no longer under any timetables to produce legislation.
…
Even Sen. John Kerry (D., Mass.), a climate-bill champion who last week said committees should have climate legislation processed by the end of the year, Tuesday backed off such expectations. “I don’t want to create artificial deadlines which get in the way of our being methodical about this,” he said.
Instead, Mr. Kerry said he is focused on getting the 60 votes necessary to pass controversial climate legislation — a higher margin than a simple majority and no mean feat. “The main thing to do here is to build the adequate base of support and consensus,” he said.
h/t to Dr. Benny Peiser
Well, slightly OT but not really. I just returned from the chemical engineers’ conference (annual meeting) in Nashville TN, where I gave a condensed version of my speech on California’s climate change law – AB 32. I finally ran into quite a number of chemical engineers who are devout believers that Carbon Is Gonna Kill Us All. Their questions after my speech were quite “vigorous.” I noted that none of them appeared to be older than 30. However, those in the older group were quite supportive.
After the speech, I related the facts that attempting to regulate the globe’s average temperature by adjusting the CO2 content of the atmosphere violates the fundamentals of process control, and that started quite a discussion. Some of those in attendance are in government positions, and had never heard the process control argument before. It is likely (at least this is my hope) that the seeds of doubt were planted.
For more on this process control issue, see:
http://sowellslawblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/chemical-engineer-takes-on-global.html
I still think the way through is to insist that the EPA follow the Clean Air Act to the letter. Don’t allow the adjusted allowable levels of CO2. Stick to the letter of the Act. Might be the needed wake-up call.
wws (07:45:05) : add :-
9) No proponenet of AGW will ever admit that they were wrong.
wws (13:18:28) and Pragmatic (13:23:02) :
Agreed on all counts. I wrote on this back in May 2009, to quote a portion:
“Despite rosy projections by some, including California’s Air Resources Board, that jobs will be created by panic-motivated CO2 and other greenhouse gas regulations, the reality is that jobs will be lost, not created. The economic models that were used to evaluate California’s AB 32 were seriously flawed, as several independent expert reviewers found and reported to ARB.” [but were then ignored by ARB.]
http://sowellslawblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/politicians-beware-of-backlash-from-co2.html
Down the EPA!
There’s a litmus test for you.
Obama Considers Attending Copenhagen After All
US President Barack Obama has said in an interview that he may reconsider his decision not to attend the global climate summit in Copenhagen in December. President Obama is again considering whether to come to Copenhagen in December for the United Nations Climate Summit (COP15) — if there is an indication that his presence would make a difference.
The COP15 meeting takes place between Dec. 7 and Dec 18. Obama plans to be in the Norwegian capital Oslo on December 10 to receive his Nobel Peace Prize and could hop down to Copenhagen afterwards.
“And if I am confident that all the countries involved are bargaining in good faith and we are on the brink of a meaningful agreement and my presence in Copenhagen will make a difference in tipping us over the edge, then certainly that’s something that I would do. But I’ve got to make sure that, over the next three weeks, pressure is continually applied on our teams and everybody else’s teams to actually create a framework that people can sign off on,” Obama says in an interview with Reuters.
Asked if there was more he could bring to Copenhagen — apart from what is currently being discussed in Washington — Obama was clear that legislation on climate change would not be ready by then.
“I think everybody understands that the Senate won’t have acted on climate change legislation before Copenhagen. And our key partners, including Prime Minister Rasmussen of Denmark, the host, who’s taken a very constructive and active role on this issue, I think recognizes that not every “t” is going to be crossed and “i” dotted in the next three weeks. I think the question is (whether) we can create a set of principles, building blocks, that allow for ongoing and continuing progress on the issue, and that’s something I’m confident we can achieve,” Obama says.
“And I’m confident that the American people will recognize the enormous opportunity around a clean energy economy and the ability for us to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions,” he adds.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,660386,00.html
I WAS WRONG!!!!!
ALL together now
………………….
Copenhagen will fail…
………………….
Cap and Trade will fail…
………………….
Health Care reform (as proposed by the Demo’s) will fail…
………………….
The Demo’s will loos 19+ seats in the senate…
………………….
Sanity will be restored in congress…
………………….
The science will be rehashed and be (dis)proved…
………………….
………………….
Copenhagen will fail…
………………….
Cap and Trade will fail…
………………….
Health Care reform (as proposed by the Demo’s) will fail…
………………….
The Demo’s will loos 19+ seats in the senate…
………………….
Sanity will be restored in congress…
………………….
The science will be rehashed and be (dis)proved…
………………….
………………….
Copenhagen will fail…
………………….
Cap and Trade will fail…
………………….
Health Care reform (as proposed by the Demo’s) will fail…
………………….
The Demo’s will loos 19+ seats in the senate…
………………….
Sanity will be restored in congress…
………………….
The science will be rehashed and be (dis)proved…
………………….
………………….
Copenhagen will fail…
………………….
Cap and Trade will fail…
………………….
Health Care reform (as proposed by the Demo’s) will fail…
………………….
The Demo’s will loos 19+ seats in the senate…
………………….
Sanity will be restored in congress…
………………….
The science will be rehashed and be (dis)proved…
………………….
………………….
A few weeks ago , Steve Forbes and someone from AEP ( I think ) were on Huckabee discussing Cap and Trade . The guy from AEP said that the only reason that he supported C&T was that it would be a better alternative to whatever the EPA might dish out . BTW , John Christy was on the same show and he is not particularily ruddy faced . That’s a bad picture on the other thread .
13 years of SOHO Solar images in the EUV:
http://www.robertb.darkhorizons.org/EITNov1996_Nov2009.JPG
In perspective of the previous cycle, SC24 looks rather pale.
This should come as a cold reminder that in the real world, things do not pan out according to the best laid theories…or agendas.
While the flux is rising, the spots are lagging/wisping out, under the hood there are some things going on that have not been seen before. Of course, we never had the ability to look under the hood before.
The Prime Warmer of the Earth is having it’s own tussle.
Re: Roger Sowell 13:24:54
Thanks for the link. I was very impressed with Latour’s comprehensive second rebuttal here
http://www.hydrocarbonprocessing.com/index.html?Page=14&PUB=22&SID=716332&ISS=25267&GUID=0EE7B6AE-B8A8-4866-B46A-B24D7D68DECB
Regards
Michael
COPENHAGEN UPDATE
Barack Obama says he will go to Copenhagen climate change conference
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/copenhagen-climate-change-confe/6534626/Barack-Obama-says-he-will-go-to-Copenhagen-climate-change-conference.html
President Barack Obama has said he will go to Copenhagen next month to secure an international deal on climate change.
President Obama acknowledged that the US Senate would not pass the crucial legislation before Copenhagen.
A key global treaty to stop global warming almost collapsed last week after poorer nations threatened to walk out unless rich countries like America agree to cut their emissions. However, President Obama said he thinks a deal can still be done and he will go to Denmark in mid-December to make sure it happens.
“If I am confident that all of the countries involved are bargaining in good faith and we are on the brink of a meaningful agreement and my presence in Copenhagen will make a difference in tipping us over edge then certainly that’s something that I will do,” he told Reuters.
The UN Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen has been billed as the world’s last chance to stop temperature rise going above 2ºC (3.6ºF).
The latest round of UN talks in Barcelona last week ended in deadlock, after the US and other rich countries refused to cut their greenhouse gas emissions in line with the poor world’s demands.
It is difficult for the US to sign up to legally-binding emission targets until the level of cuts have been approved by the Senate. President Obama acknowledged that the US Senate would not pass the crucial legislation before Copenhagen. But he said a “framework” agreement can still be thrashed out that commits the world to tackling global warming.
“I think the question is can we create a set of principles, building blocks, that allow for ongoing and continuing progress on the issue and that’s something I’m confident we can achieve,” he said.
The President’s intervention will come as a relief to environment groups who want America to lead the world on climate change – although they will be campaigning hard to ensure President Obama signs up to a tough enough target eventually.
It is now thought the Copenhagen meeting will become a “leader’s summit” where the world will make a “political agreement” on cutting emissions before thrashing out targets and a legal treaty later in the year.
Talks between the US and Chinese leaders during an Asia tour later this month will be crucial in agreeing carbon emission targets and the amount of money developed countries are willing to pay the poor world to help them cut emissions.
President Obama said the large polluting nations can thrash out a deal.
“The key now is for the United States and China, the two largest emitters in the world, is to be able to come up with a framework that, along with other big emitters like the Europeans and those countries that are projected to be large emitters in the future, like India, can all buy into,” he said.
….Hey, and guess what… Gordon Brown has also changed his mind and is going too!
Steve Sloan (08:55:53) :
Can we now ask the Goracle to follow Sentator Chuck Grassley’s recent advice:
“Apologize to the American People and COMMIT SUICIDE!”?
Yes we can, but in the mean time he is killing Green Jobs single handedly!
http://thechillingeffect.org/2009/11/11/al-gore-kills-80-green-jobs-single-handedly/
Robert E. Phelan (11:19:39) :
“Now is not the time to celebrate or become complacent. These economy-killing bills are like zombies. They just won’t die. ”
Correct. We will have to wrestle this pig again.
Cap & Trade better than EPA? I doubt seriously that a 50%+ surcharge on everything would be better than a 50%+ tax on all industry.
It matters not whether your car hits a 6′ through oak tree or a brick wall at 65mph.
The vehicle and passenger are both going to get totaled.
JT (13:03:19) :
Just saying it again,
Who needs Copenhagen when you have the EPA….
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/09/epa-sends-co2-endangerment-finding-to-the-white-house/
Worth re-reading
There are also ANSI and ISO standards that are contractually imposed, including most govt contracts, that totally bypass any national laws. See: http://www.asq.org/quality-press/display-item/index.pl?item=T845E . There’s more than one way to skin a cat.
They won’t give up.
If the the Copenhagen fails to deliver the legal basis for their power grab (because that’s where this is all about) they will try to accomplish their objectives via other treaty. Think about an international treaty to control the banks, the economy and trade agreements.
Don’t forget that Obama is in the process of signing on to a whole series of UN Treaties that former Presidents have kept in the drawer.
Be vigilant to follow the entire political process and don’t focus on climate issues alone.
What still stands is the UN IPCC 2007 report which is full of debunked conclusions, but States and Cities still use this paper to justify many Carbon Emission Reduction schemes that are undertaken independently from Copenhagen or Federal Government.
And there is still the big axe swung in the air by EPA which has the authority, execution and control capabilities to enforce emission reduction schemes without the consent of the US Congress and the Senate.
There are and will be individual countries who will follow an individual course on emission reductions.
They will try to pressure other countries with import restrictions or taxes.
Also think about UN Agenda 21, another horrible treaty.
We are not out of the woods yet and there is still a lot going on, behind closed doors.
No reason for any celebration at this moment in time.
Not UN. The Food Climate Research Network another UK Gov. funded fake campaign group (see our favourite – The Carbon Trust). Loyal party supporters are given a “nice little earner” turning out pseudo-scientific “reports” supporting policy which the media then pass off as real science.
The paragraph … It [the report] has been prompted by growing concern about the impact of food production and consumption on the changing global climate. … has become a trademark. “Follow the (taxpayer) money” as they say.
Inre, “they won’t give up”; “there’s more than one way to skin a cat,” etc.
W.H. Tells Hill Policy ‘Czars’ Won’t Testify
Friday, October 23, 2009 8:10 AM
By: Stephen Dinan, The Washington Times Article
The White House has told Congress it will reject calls for many of President Obama’s policy czars to testify before Congress — a decision senators said goes against the president’s promises of transparency and openness and treads on Congress’ constitutional mandate to investigate the administration’s actions.
Sen. Susan Collins, Maine Republican, said White House counsel Greg Craig told her in a meeting Wednesday that they will not make available any of the czars who work in the White House and don’t have to go through Senate confirmation. She said he was “murky” on whether other czars outside of the White House would be allowed to come before Congress.
Miss Collins said that doesn’t make sense when some of those czars are actually making policy or negotiating on behalf of Mr. Obama.
“I think Congress should be able to call the president’s climate czar, Carol Browner, the energy and environment czar, to ask her about the negotiations she conducted with the automobile industry that led to very significant policy changes with regard to emissions standards,” Miss Collins said at a hearing Thursday that examined the proliferation of czars.
No, we’re not home safe yet. But Harry Reid has one heck of a stinker bill (in Lindsay Grahams words) in Health Care by the House, and with the President urging him on, his hands are quite full. The Channel is backed up.
For now.
“When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer “Present” or “Not Guilty.””
-Theodore Roosevelt-
wws (07:45:05) :
I’d like to believe you’re right, that would be the rational course. But when you have leaders like Pelosi who say it’s “Fair” to throw people in jail for failing to buy government health insurance, how rational are they?
Besides they’re like vampires, sucking us dry. Maybe the sunlight of scientific reality will stop them, but I’m more inclined toward the stake through the heart.
Zeke the Sneak (10:32:19) :
The last thing Obama wants or needs is for the EPA to regulate greenhouse gasses under the Clean Air Act. That would put the blame for the collapse of American industry on him and his administration. By having Congress pass Cap & Trade he can blame them for not doing it right.
As for Obama signing the Treaty – he has already let it be known (Bolton and Moncton spoke about this on Beck) that the administration will act on Copenhagen whether the Senate ratifies it or not through administrative fiat. It will take years for this to go through the courts and by the time the Supreme Court rules the country will be frozen into this treaty as much as it is in the Law of Sea Treaty, which was not ratified.
“There are and will be individual countries who will follow an individual course on emission reductions.” (Ron de Haan)
Indeed there will be, but as a precedent setter, we (NZ) watch the USA, as I believe will Australian lawmakers.
The beguiling fact is that it has always seemed that our centre-right government has acquiesced towards AGW for some reason, yet has been clever enough to murmur soothing noises to appease the media and the left without actually doing anything at all. Suggesting of course, that they believe it is BS anyway, but have to be seen to be following the UN/IPPC diktat.
3×2 (16:19:56) :
Not UN. The Food Climate Research Network another UK Gov. funded fake campaign group (see our favourite – The Carbon Trust).
Thanks for the correct!
“The Carbon Trust–Towards a Low Carbon Future.” That sounds cold. Maybe one of the Brits around here would make a good carbon broker for you. They are good with numbers!