And then what happens? Another online poll that might go horribly wrong

UPDATE: At first I was concerned about this poll and the language involved. Now from comments I’m seeing a number of people whom aren’t worried and see an opportunity to voice their opinion. I’ll leave it up to the reader to decide if they wish to participate. – Anthony

Wow, just wow. Who would think we’d see this sort of language and lack of sound judgment from a science museum? In the Now playing at a museum near you, the “Day After Tomorrow Map” thread, something interesting was discovered.

Once you click the “count me out” button, you enter a netherworld of governmental lists. The London Science Museum might want to think about redoing this web feature. The images are below, here’s the link.

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Click for larger image

Okay…now look what happens when you click “COUNT ME OUT”. Yellow highlighter mine.

UKScience_fail2
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Not only is this insulting and threatening to the reader, it virtually ensures that all responses logged by the London Science Museum are “COUNT ME IN” if you originally chose to vote otherwise.

Future presentation of results to the government: “The results show overwhelmingly that people agree with us. Hardly anyone chose COUNT ME OUT.

Even with the caveat the list*, how many people would trust it? I wouldn’t. I doubt many people even get to the caveat. The main statement is just too worrisome.

Perhaps the “COUNT ME OUT” respondents get a visit from these chaps? 😉

Click for larger image
Click for larger image

To be fair, respondents get a similar message if they choose to be counted in.

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Click for a larger image

However, one wonders how many people will respond at all once they see that language.

The Science Museum really ought to pull this feature or redo language in it in my opinion.

h/t to alert WUWT reader coddbotherer

UPDATE: 10/24 @11:30PM

It appears some robovoting hit this poll. Robert Phelan’s letter pretty well sums up my thinking on this issue.

Sirs:

By now you must be aware that your on-line Prove It poll was seriously compromised. I voted “count-me-out” once under my own name, but after the individual who corrupted your poll revealed himself, I tested your polling system with two consecutive “count-me-in” votes, which were both apparently accepted.

Leaving aside my distaste for your support of politicized, Lysenko-style “science”, as both a social scientist and computer systems consultant I respect data and am appalled by the shoddy manner in which your organization collected it. A few suggestions:

1. State clearly the purpose of your poll and exactly which data will be used for that purpose.

2. You stated that you would pass the results to the government:

a. if the results had fairly resulted in a “count-me-out” majority, would those results have been passed on?

b. it would be helpful top explain what you would do with the comments you requested from the “count-me-outs”;

c. since the results were to be passed, presumably, to the UK government, foreigners such as myself should have been excluded from the voting. Checking the IP location of voters should be easy.

3. No one, either inside the UK or outside received the follow up e-mail. The explanation provided about ensuring one vote per person, frankly, makes no sense.

4. Maintaining a confidential list of voter names, e-mail addresses and IP’s to verify non-duplication would be easy. Making the voting a two-step process, where the voter had to respond to a follow-on e-mail would be even more secure.

5. Maintaining a list of non-acceptable names for screening: Joseph Stalin, Lenin, Mao Tse-tung and Mickey Mouse all claimed to have voted no, as did Keith Briffa, Michael Mann, Gavin Schmidt and James Hansen.

7. Create a display page where interested persons can view the names who have voted. Given the politicized nature of the topic, a unified alphabetical list would be appropriate.

8. Test the security of your poll before putting it on-line. Find a good hacker and pay him only if he succeeds in breaking into your system.

If you people can’t even run an on-line poll, why should anyone consider your opinions on climate? If this poll was so important that you needed two ministers of HMG to introduce it, why didn’t you get it done right?

I intend my suggestions to be helpful; if you find them so then I would be glad to be of further assistance. I am bitterly opposed to the position you have taken on “AGW” but I would not allow that to interfere with my professionalism.

Oh, one last suggestion. Don’t even try to salvage the results of this poll. Wipe them, make the changes I’ve suggested and start again.

Robert E. Phelan

Adjunct Instructor of Sociology

Business Systems and Automation Consultant

A commenter on our site, “lihard” has seemingly confessed to adding a thousand votes via a script. There was a period of about 15 minutes where the count jumped about 1000 votes. It appears “lihard” was at fault as he pre-announced it here in comments. Of course there was little anyone could do about it. I speak for myself and the moderation staff in saying we strongly object and are offended by his ballot stuffing and want to make clear that it is not condoned in any way. Whether or not the poll was put together with apparently no security in place does not justify any kind of dishonest activity.

However, since that burst (if indeed he, lihard, did one) the vote count has steadily risen, I believe those to be valid. If the Science Museum has any logs, they should be able to filter those ~1000 in question out. I hope they do.

I don’t condone ballot stuffing in any form. Unfortunately it can happen when polls like this one don’t appear to have the most basic simplistic security. The interesting thing here is that if anybody wanting to stuff the poll, no matter what side of the argument they are on, could easily have done so. No special skills are needed to boost the counter…just keep clicking the submit button. Any kid can do it.

Perhaps the Science Museum didn’t think of security for cyberspace like they do for their exhibits. The internet is a harsh place and prone to such things. The lack of due diligence for security is as troubling as the language they used which originally caught my attention.

The polls we do here at WUWT don’t suffer from these problems, as they have anti-ballot stuffing security built in courtesy of WordPress. I hope that the Science Museum will upgrade their poll security if they choose to continue with it. Also for the record, you’ll find me logged once in poll, shortly after posting this story on 11/23 approximately 9:30-10AM PST, with my full name and email address given. If anyone from the Science Museum (or the UK government) wishes to contact me, they can use that email address. – Anthony

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Editor
October 26, 2009 3:39 pm

Hah! There’s a worm in our apple. I asked Lihard three minutes ago if he could trace the bot and whaddaya know? The hack stopped. Moderators, can you freeze a copy of the usage reports here pending official inquiries?

Editor
October 26, 2009 3:53 pm

Or maybe they just switched counters. The “out” counter is registering a hit every two seconds. Sheesh. Enough melodrama. I’ve got papers to grade. I still think there’s a good chance there’s a worm, though.

Stoic
October 26, 2009 4:18 pm

At about 23.12 GMT the in vote stopped going up and is currently frozen at 5332. the out vote is rocketing up and is currently (23.17GMT) 5754. This is an embarrassing farce. It is quite shaming how incompetent the Science Museum has been in its PR stunt.

dodgy geezer
October 26, 2009 4:48 pm

There is a strong tradition in the hacking/cracking community of treating this sort of thing as a game.
I would not be surprised to find that the scripts generating the ‘IN’ and the ‘OUT’ figures are being run by the same individual. Some minds get a kick out of lurking on a forum, watching the flurry of messages from one side as the figures go one way, then a different set as the figures come back….

October 26, 2009 8:05 pm

Pops (03:02:13) : ” … What a bunch of hand-wringing, nail-biting, fretful ninnies most of the commentators on this thread appear to be. I say, stuff the ballot-box until it explodes. Why? …”
Very persuavive, Trevor. You keep the mind open with your perspective to add in to the mix; and I think that is very, very important. Thanks.

Jordan
October 27, 2009 6:00 am

“I would not be surprised to find that the scripts generating the ‘IN’ and the ‘OUT’ figures are being run by the same individual.”
For all we know it could be as good as the “live” biometric data from the Catlin expedition. Or about as scientific as “Hanno 2009”. This is AGW alarmism guys.
There is talk of “results” being announced in December. Let’s look forward to a good laugh. It should be another opportunity for Christopher Booker to say a few words in the Telegraph.

Frank Kotler
October 27, 2009 10:10 am

My last visit to the page revealed that the counters had been rest to zero. While I agree with Evan, I took this as an invitation to vote again. This time I did receive a confirmation email, and had to “click back” for my vote to be counted. Apparently this has been an educational experience for them. This would make Lihard a “teacher”, I guess. 🙂
Perhaps this thread needs a “bump” to inform people that the vote is being redone?
Best,
Frank

Frank Kotler
October 27, 2009 10:16 am

Ummpf! Upon revisiting the page to see if my vote had been counted (not that I don’t trust ’em!), I found the counters at their previous high values. Perhaps I’ve cheated by voting twice. Sorry ’bout that!
Best,
Frank

October 27, 2009 10:34 am

http://www.anenglishmanscastle.com/archives/007903.html – They have scrubbed the results and are starting all over again (like an Afghan Election) with an email verification step now – time to vote again.

elle
October 27, 2009 10:56 am

So, those who disagree need to provide their name? What list will they go on? I am SICK of government control and their dictating to us. FU Govt

Stoic
October 27, 2009 10:59 am

The corrupted UK Science Museum climate change poll was reset to zero at about 17.15 GMT today – 45 minutes ago. this time you have to click on a link to have your vote validated. Has Lihard or anybody else views on whether this poll has integrity? Current score 4 counted in 31 counted out.
A reminder the link is http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/proveit.aspx
Regards
S

DaveE
October 27, 2009 11:07 am

Voted again, (after the poll reset), Not decided what to leave as a comment as yet.
I may stick with the comment about Syedoff not getting frozen into the Arctic at 85ºN until 18th Dec 1938 and the Soden & Held paper rubbishing GCMs.
DaveE.

DaveE
October 27, 2009 11:10 am

Just checked the count.
41 OUT
4 IN
I may add another part to my comment about the debunking of the various hokey sticks.
DaveE.

October 27, 2009 11:12 am

I tried to vote again but my anti virus programme (Kaspersky AV ) has denied me
access to the site, saying the URL site is infected by a trojan….
The requested URL could not be retrieved
While trying to retrieve the URL:
http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/proveit.
aspx
The following error was encountered:
The requested object is INFECTED with the following viruses: HEUR:Trojan-Downloader.Script.Generic
Please contact your service provider if you consider it incorrect.
Generated:
Tue Oct 27 18:03:45 2009
Kaspersky Anti-Virus 2009
So how do I vote now ? Do I switch off my AV to vote and risk infecting my
computor… Ken

Reply to  Ken Sharples
October 27, 2009 11:20 am

Ken Sharples
Probably a false positive
If I were you I would turn it off and vote, then turn it on again.

DaveE
October 27, 2009 11:45 am

Ken Sharples.
What jeez said. 😀
DaveE.

dodgy geezer
October 27, 2009 11:50 am

I had left the Science Museum site up in my bookmarks, so it has been open on my machine all today.
I just obediently reentered my email and voted. And it didn’t ask me to click on a link or anything…

Emil
October 27, 2009 11:55 am

this is a farce …
* 5429 counted in so far
* 6523 counted out so far
the numbers are back

Stoic
October 27, 2009 12:10 pm

At 18.53 GMT – 15 minutes ago, the Science Museum seems to have really lost it. Their website appears to have started to add the validated poll results to the corrupted poll! Not very good for the Museum’s reputation for technical competence.
At 18.50 GMT the score was 6 in, 81 out. At 18.53 GMT it was 5429 in, 6521 out!
Regards
S

Admin
October 27, 2009 12:10 pm

Looks like they took the original database offline while they switched to implementing security and then added back the earlier counts.
Previous ballot stuffing remains in order to not throw out the unknown percentage of valid votes with added security going forward.
A Solomonic solution and not necessarily a bad one given the hole they initially dug for themselves.

philincalifornia
October 27, 2009 12:10 pm

I just voted, along with a small dose of vitriol, and got the confirmation e-mail.

October 27, 2009 12:18 pm

I took the advice of Jeez and DaveE, I switched off my AV and went back to the
Museum site….surprise… now we are back on the old vote count..
I re-voted and was sent an e-mail to confirm my vote, and it was added to
count me out total…so far so good..
IN vote…5430 OUT vote…6538 and rising.
The Trojan script has now vanished from the site.
Ken

Emil
October 27, 2009 12:26 pm

Maybe they don’t care about ballot stuffing … if an issue is debated, it’s important. I guess they are happy to have thousands of votes: if the “out” votes win, it means people need to be informed better, if the “in” votes win, they are right and the popular vote gives them even more legitimacy.
Funny thing is I used to be an orthodox greenie, until the fools starting overdoing it … like with the glaciers pouring into the ocean: when tens of thousands of ice move, it’s because there is more ice pushing them from up hill, not because they are melting …

October 27, 2009 1:02 pm

Maybe they saw the way the “new” poll was also going against them, and decided the original figures would give them a better case for crying “foul” against the evil, hijacking, climate skeptics.

DaveE
October 27, 2009 1:18 pm

Steve Smith (13:02:27) :

Maybe they saw the way the “new” poll was also going against them, and decided the original figures would give them a better case for crying “foul” against the evil, hijacking, climate skeptics.

Pretty much the conclusion I came up with.
When they switched back, the poll was running at 10:1 against.
DaveE.

DaveE
October 27, 2009 1:21 pm

I got lazy on comments & just outlined the null hypothesis & said…
disprove it
DaveE.

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