A summary of opinion related to the UN conference on climate in NYC
Collated by Benny Peiser.

Copenhagen was essentially sidelined yesterday at another event, UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon’s Climate Change Summit in New York. There, along with Chinese leader Hu Jintao, U.S. President Barack Obama more or less shuffled climate control policy off into the great dreamscape of unattainable plans and long range objectives. Like equality for all and peace in our time, the world will have to wait for sweeping and binding climate policy.
–Terence Corcoran, Financial Post, 22 September 2009
The UN Climate Change Summit in New York managed to produce a concrete result. It has nothing to do with CO2 reduction targets, however, but with a simple political insight: Forget Copenhagen! The chances that the Copenhagen summit will deliver more than just a non-binding framework agreement decreased further on Tuesday. They now tend towards zero. Therefore, it would be best to postpone the climate conference until the United States is ready to agree to clear progress in negotiations. Otherwise, there is a real danger that a compromise formula in Copenhagen would make any progress impossible for years to come because the big climate sinners could hide behind the agreement.
–Editorial, Financial Times Deutschland, 22 September 2009
Initially, many climate activists had hoped this year would yield a pact in which nations would agree to cut their greenhouse gas emissions under the auspices of a legal international treaty. But recent announcements by China, Japan and other nations point to a different outcome of U.N. climate talks that will be held in December in Copenhagen: a political deal that would establish global federalism on climate policy, with each nation pledging to take steps domestically.
–Juliet Eilperin and Colum Lynch, The Washington Post, 23 September 2009
The significance of the Chinese proposal is that it indicates that China is willing to join Europe, the United States and others in a fantasyland of climate policy detached from policy reality. It is hard to believe how that outcome leads some to greater optimism on climate policy.
—Roger Pielke Jr, 31 August 2009
None of the alarmists and their supercomputer climate models ever predicted even a 30-year respite in their apocalyptic scenarios. Neither did they predict the sun, that thermonuclear furnace in the sky that has more influence on earth’s climate than any number of Ford Explorers, would suddenly go quiet for an indefinite period. Latif and others conclude that, at the very least, we have time to think about it and analyze and learn. We don’t have to fight global warming by inflicting global poverty. More things on Earth affect climate than are dreamed up in computer models.
—Investor’s Business Daily, 22 September 2009
If you want to know what I think is going on inside Prime Ministers’offices around the world, it’s ‘Let’s kick this into the long grass.’ Because that is what it will take to approach the problem. The short-termism is gone.
–Benny Peiser, LTT, 14 November 2008
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Another good article written by Bob Carter:
http://www.quadrant.org.au/blogs/doomed-planet/2009/09/planning-for-global-cooling
Sorry to rain on everyone’s parade, but the self congratulations are premature and not warranted by a handful of news articles.
The opponents of free men are zealous in their commitment to dominate and will not give up at a mere blip of noise in the MSM.
Philip_B (15:30:39) :
“The Maldives is a curious case. Pretty much the entire economy is longhaul tourism. If the CO2 emissions from these flights were included in their ‘carbon footprint’ they would have one of the world’s highest CO2 emissions per capita and probably the world’s highest per unit of GDP.
They are currently going through a severe recession because tourist numbers are down. The Danes had to pay for their president to fly to Copenhagen. Yet they are advocating CO2 emissions reductions which would likely wreck their economy completely by making long haul travel much more expensive.
I find it hard to credit people can be so irrational especially in light of the scientific evidence that no appreciable sea level rise has occurred in the Maldives.”
Philip_B
The Maldives have become the UN IPCC showcase of the predicted rising oceans.
There is nothing wrong with the Maldives. There is a lot wrong however with their government.
They hoped their island would be flooded with “guild money” paid by the G20 but I think it’s not going to happen.
The money is gone because of the economic crises and there is not even enough capital available to finance the expected economic up swing.
The Maldivian politicians have gambled on a dead horse.
ASgree, Edward. It’s a pincer movement: get ahead on the new, green technologies (solar panels, LED lights etc) and get costs down to marginal cost quickly to lock out competitors. Revenue stream 1: selling this (actually, very good) product.
Then get certainty at Copenhagen about forestry carbon credits, and plant like hell. China denuded much of it’s existing forest back in the make-yer-own-iron Great Leap Backwards days (estimated death toll: 20-60 mill), so there’s a Lot of territory to re-plant. Revenue stream 2: Sucker money from the rest of the world.
Left hook, right uppercut.
He announced an ice age in 1971 and produced the graphs presented in “An Inconvenient Truth”. Guess what he does today!
http://www.zombietime.com/zomblog/?p=873
Via Climate Depot
Limiting EPA’s powers to regulate:
http://blogs.wsj.com/environmentalcapital/2009/09/23/awkward-senators-move-to-rein-in-epa-as-obama-talks-tough-on-climate/
Via Climate Depot
It is indeed heatening to see the EU carbon market working seamlessly:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,26118293-11949,00.html
The last few days in Australia have been interesting. We had a terrific storm Tuesday night. Then over night high winds blew up a dust storm, we all woke to a red sky in the morning, and the media spun the event in to proof of AGW. Now today, it’s a typycal, blue-dome, warm sunny, spring day.
But then I read this;
http://www.smh.com.au/national/politicians-get-a-pay-rise-20090924-g3e8.html
And I feel ill. KRudd747 sqandered the surplus the previous 10 left by Howard. There is now deficit. All the time taking more and more money directly out of my earning, even before I can spend it, and then they award themselves a payrise.
Errmmm…”the previous 10″ should have read “the previous 10 years”…
Jon Stewart tonight made fun of all the carbon being burned for the U.N. climate change summit and the lot of nothing happening there.
Now what am I supposed to do with my Prius?
Wayne Findley (17:49:27) :
ASgree, Edward. It’s a pincer movement: get ahead on the new, green technologies (solar panels, LED lights etc) and get costs down to marginal cost quickly to lock out competitors. Revenue stream 1: selling this (actually, very good) product.
Then get certainty at Copenhagen about forestry carbon credits, and plant like hell. China denuded much of it’s existing forest back in the make-yer-own-iron Great Leap Backwards days (estimated death toll: 20-60 mill), so there’s a Lot of territory to re-plant. Revenue stream 2: Sucker money from the rest of the world.
Left hook, right uppercut.
——————————
Ooh that’s clever – I know they are basically saying “yeh, climate change whatever as long as *you* pay no problem” but didn’t consider the extra revenue and the forestry credit angle…..
Scrap it and get Ferrari,if you can afford one, start enjoying life again.Or atleast until the next big scare that somebody can dream up comes along.
Scrap it and get Ferrari,if you can afford one, start enjoying life again.Or atleast until the next big scare.
Graeme Rodaughan (17:01:23) :
I agree wholeheartedly with your comment Graeme. The fanatics will not let Copenhagen die quietly. The rising clamor in the my local ill informed press and various BBC news outlets is already unbearable. The roar will get louder and louder in the run up to the big event.
After the craziness of environmentalists preventing a solar project on a few percent of the Mojave desert, we should now know that letting this group have any serious input into government policy would be an end of the world-like nightmare. I’ve noted that the few rabid activists (as opposed to more sensible concerned citizens) that I have known anything about hated their fathers or mothers. I think it would be a good psycho-sociological research project to interview individuals at random among nut-fringe activist protest rallies. Unfortunately, the corrupted humanity sciences are all mixed in with their subjects.
EdBhoy:
“The rising clamor in the my local ill informed press and various BBC news outlets is already unbearable. ”
When I saw the word “local” I thought for an insane moment you meant your local pub. No, I thinks to myself. For in the local pubs it is never mentioned. Nor anywhere else where ordinary mortals congregate. Not in the workplace, nor in the bingo halls, not at sporting events nor in the parks and walkways. Everywhere silence. Only in the fevered minds of the activists do they wish feverishly for a mandate from the people, one that remains as elusive as ever.
Did I tell you about Brown’s telephone chat with that activist in Trafalger square? In the background, if you listen carefully you can make out individual voices, like a handful of people chatting in a large empty auditorium (a bit like a Lib Dem party conference (UK not US)), not the deafening raw of a true crowd.
Grass roots support? What grass roots?
I haven’t seen this article mentioned at WUWT yet: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/23/science/earth/23cool.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=climate&st=cse
“Stable Global Temperatures Could Stifle Action on Climate”
There are a few howlers in there for dedicated WUWTers, but of the “well, what do you expect from reporters” variety, and more balanced than one usually expects from Big Media on climate change.
http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2009/09/why-i-am-an-anthropogenic-global-warming-sceptic-michael-hammer/
In response to Douglas DC:
Mencken may have picked up his puritan views from Thomas MacAulay who wrote, “The Puritans were opposed to bear baiting, not because it harmed the bear, but because it gave pleasure to the bear baiters.”
The significance of the Chinese proposal is that it indicates that China is willing to join Europe, the United States and others in a fantasyland of climate policy detached from policy reality. It is hard to believe how that outcome leads some to greater optimism on climate policy.
–Roger Pielke Jr, 31 August 2009
The way to see how it leads to some greater optimism is by decoding what the Chinese said. I’ve worked with a “Chinese Business Partner” from Hong Kong for about 30 years, on and off. Along the way I got have a bit of a clue about the ways in which the Chinese speak without saying anything…
You listen for the negative space. What ought to have been said but was not said. You also listen for the OOPART – Out Of Place Artifact.
Negative space:
1) There were no numbers given. There will be no reduction in Chinese carbon consumption unless they are stuck with a firm commitment with a size. Otherwise, you will get one new coal plant delayed in its startup by a week; the missed date will be claimed as reduction of coal consumption, and then it is back to business as usual.
2) There was no discussion of the evil of AGW. They don’t buy into the thesis.
3) There was no claim that the west would have to compensate. Do you really expect China to take a hit and not at least ask for the “gimmie” ?
OOPARTS:
1) They talked about change in proportion to GDP. The Chinese “angle” is that they ought to be allowed to produce just as much carbon PER $ or Euro OF GDP as the west. Given their much lower cost basis in dollars or Euro it is pretty clear that the “game” here is to say they get to produce MORE total carbon than the rest of us since their GDP is so low measured in our currencies. Now the second bit of this is that GDP is often measured “per capita” and they have one heck of a lot of capitas… This is sort of a ‘negative space’ issue in that they did not actually make it clear if it was total GDP or per capita, but the rule with Chinese negotiators is that if it is unsaid, it is interpreted as the one that is most in their favor unless and until you force the issue and get a statement to the contrary (preferably in writing and by a high ranking counter party…) This, IMHO, is the “smoking gun” that says China is NOT on board with the whole carbon reduction thing.
2) The mention of needing western partnership to achieve reductions. Any time a Chinese negotiator is talking about a ‘partnership’, check for your wallet. They are simply fishing for how much money the west will pony up if they look like they will play along. Will we fund a few dozen new “clean coal” or “carbon capture ready” coal plants in exchange for shutting down some of their oldest and most decrepit plants that are near death anyway? Will we transfer interesting technologies with licenses to manufacture (hey, if we are going to be buying a lot of windmills and flue scrubbers, someone will be making them at a profit: send license, China make!)
3) The claim that they had goals of some percent (was it 20%?) energy from renewables and would be planting forests for carbon capture. They are so starved for energy, and so much of the country is not near any infrastructure, that they have no real choice but to get a lot of their energy from ‘renewables’ (i.e. the old fashioned way of burning wood and damming rivers; but also some newer construction techniques and solar panels). Heck, they denuded a lot of their forests in stupid central planning schemes some time ago, they NEED to replant them for fiber and fuel. So they plant now, maybe with us sending buckets of money for “Carbon Credits” then in 1/4 century when ready to harvest, they cut and run. I could even see old growth being logged and new plantings being claimed as “new sequestration”. No Problem. And the one place where things like solar really makes sense is the rural village with one TV and a small well water pump. So China has the cheapest cost to manufacture solar panels and the largest rational need (no way to make a country sized grid in less than a decade or two). OK, now all they need is a western subsidy and it’s party time in Bejing.
There were other more subtile weasel words, but you get the picture.
Just remember that the cultural norm is not to say “You are wrong you idiot”, it is to say “I understand your issues and would like to work as a partner” while thinking “How can I fleece this idiot most efficiently while leaving them happy with the process?”
Heck, I could even see them working an angle where they take our technology licenses for mitigation gear, build the products to sell back to us, and ask for a share of the “carbon credit” money for the fact that they have forgone using the devices themselves so that we might have them faster to meet our goals… just to be helpful to a ‘partner’ …
BTW, for anyone who wants to try to spin these observations into some kind of denigration of Chinese: I was sitting on the same side of the table as my Chinese partner and we worked the contracts together, both making money. I admire the skill even if I can’t stretch the truth that much myself. I was just glad not to be on the other side of the table. (I was the ‘token white guy’ public face.) Then there is also the fact that I had a serious crush on a Chinese girl I grew up with (and who was my date at the High School Reunion). I am very much favorably inclined toward Chinese and their culture. Just don’t ever think you know what game is being played unless you are on their side in the planning sessions…
So my read on all this “China is on board” stuff is simple:
1) They aren’t
2) They do smell money
3) They don’t want to spook the marks by being “against” them
4) They are doing an initial volley in a 5 year “negotiation”
5) They expect to win big in the “Carbon Credit” casino
6) They will.
The only real question I see is which western politicians and countries will be most effectively and efficiently fleeced. (Done well, they will never even realize they were “had” and will likely advertise their great “partnership” and how satisfied they are with the “servicing” they have gotten!)
My guess is Germany and England will head the list, with some minor EU countries in tow. France is fairly good at working the angles itself, so I don’t expect it to get taken much (I do expect them to get some kinds of contracts out of it, probably for joint sales of something to OTHER countries. The French know how to cut a deal to sell stuff to places like, oh, Iran with a Chinese partner and be on the right side of the table… See the deals they have done for arms and nuclear gear, for example.) Russia will sit back and watch, trying to figure out how the Chinese are doing this, them emulate it a bit more ham handedly. Finally, the U.S.A. will be a mixed bag of some folks being taken, some being on the right side of the table, and some smart enough to let the “deal” go by.
That, BTW, is one of the major advantages of a capitalist society. The jokers who get taken go out of business leaving behind a more competent set of players. In central planned and socialist oligopolies, they just get a ‘bail out’ from the government and attend a conference where they announce their next grand plan… using your money…
BTW, if any Chinese companies need a “token white guy public face”, I’m experienced at it and like being on the winning side. Look good in a suit, know when to shut up and let the mark take the bait. Keep secrets well. Also like the “off the menu” Chinese food that can only be ordered by folks who grew speaking Chinese and know what to ask for…
(God I miss that. My partner would order so many interesting things that were never on any menu. And the staff were delighted to have someone who knew what to order, not just the usual stuff. I need to round up another Chinese friend with an expense account… Though he did have a good laugh at me when I ate the “little red peppers that you are not supposed to eat”. Heck, if they are in the food, how are you supposed to know not to eat them?! Was a bit hot, though. About like Uncle Ken’s Texas Chili 8-0 !! but worth it 🙂 We had some kind of 7 garlic beef tendon once that was a delight. Like 18 hour brisket in flavor and tenderness and LOTS of garlic. Yes, beef tendon. Amazing what those folks can do with parts of an animal we toss out…)
In summary: Expect “happy talk”. Do not expect any reduction in carbon emissions unless highly profitable from western money. Even then, check for hidden new emissions outside of the contract.
Talking about long grass!
If the environmentalists get their way, long grass will be the only way to wipe your ass in the near future:
http://heliogenic.blogspot.com/2009/09/is-there-any-aspect-of-your-life.html
“Climate control? Are they on this Earth or Fullers?”
-Tallbloke 2008-
Jeremy Clarkson pinpoints it:
http://climaterealists.com/index.php?id=4050&linkbox=true
Short but powerful:
http://www.newsmax.com/brennan/obama_global_warming/2009/09/23/263810.html