From Tom Nelson: Plunging prices at the Chicago Climate Exchange
ABOVE: CCX CFI End of Day Summary: Offsets now selling for 25 cents each
Back on September 2nd, 2006/2007 instruments were selling as low as 20 cents and held that way until Sept 8th. So this is a boost. See the table below. Zimbabwe money notes are doing pretty well on Ebay. Right now they are actually more valuable than carbon credit notes.
[2008: Offsets were selling for over $7 each]
[Spin from Sept 9, 2009]: “Carbon market evolving”
“The U.S. appetite for carbon trading is strong CCX is now trading 3,000 to 5,000 contracts per day, with 20 percent of the largest carbon dioxide-emitting utilities in the U.S. participating; 11 percent of the Fortune 500 companies; and 17 percent of the Dow Jones Industrials companies.”
A recent Congressional Budget Office study projected that carbon offsets could be a $60 billion market in 2012, on a par with U.S. corn and wheat markets, and “as it grows beyond that, it will make forestry mitigation opportunities more important,” says Jeffrey O’Hara, senior economist, Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX).
I have a very nice time share Opera House opportunity on Sydney harbor over the bay from Trigge’s Bridge (15.56), . Personally I would not buy the bridge, I happen to know that it is covered with back rates and needs serious renovation to come up to code.
The Sydney Opera time share opportunity is all upside and no responsibility. The only time not available is New Years eve.
Please email me care of Walker@Nigeria.Gov.
Stephen Wilde (16:08:43) :
Energy rationers are aligned with political opportunists who see a chance to seize control of every detail of life.
The end of the Cold War could have been but the beginning of the end game leading to perpetual enslavement of the masses.
I hope my bottle of wine has left me reasonably intelligible.
Loud and clear Stephen.
Beware of forestry schemes where you pay for credits to emit CO2, to a company planting trees. Growing trees do sequester CO2, but once they are cut down or burned, their sequestration value goes back to zero. Someone has got rich from your gullibility. The credit value should be refunded as it worked for a mere blip in time.
Tree planting sequestration works ONLY if if the biomass on the given land is increased and maintained enlarged forever. A Viagra type of concept.
I live in a third world country. Our house overlooks hundreds of acres of sugar cane. Traditionally, in cutting season, the cane is burned before the cutters go in. This operation gets rid of the snakes that feed on the mice that abound in the cane, and makes the cutters’ lives more palatable.
They started a harvest two weeks back, but with no prior burning! I guess some guy in a plush office, and who has never encountered a snake in the wild, is cashing in on carbon credits. Tough on the poor cutters! The good side is that it helps keep my wife’s laundry smut-free.
Geoff Alder
This guy has the right idea:
http://blog.creativethink.com/images/2007/11/07/carbon_credits_2.jpg
The main worry with all this is that governments are in a rush to create all this policy to stop climate change, and we know how effective government policy is at the best of times, let alone when the whole foundation for the policy-making is a false premise…
Hmmmm perhaps we should just wind back the clock to the John Lennon days… hang around in bed all day and sell them carbon creds on eBay. Without the Yoko Ono wailing bit, of course…
Paul Vaughan (22:52:23) :
the whole story here(NZ), is that when carbon credits were introduced, the government nationalized the carbon credits, so private forestry owners didnt recieve them(most farmers had blocks of pines also). Native forests however are protected.
Basically the bottom has fallen out of the price of wood, where as commodity prices have soared(ironically partly due too land diversions to bio fuels across the globe, obviously effecting supply) So as the pine forests are being felled, they are not being replanted where its topographically possible to get a far greater return through dairy farming.
I recall green peace doing a protest about it… but they protested against the opposition party, instead o the political party that nationalized the carbon credits…. i found that amusing at the time.;-)
tallbloke (22:48:48) :
Buy dead dogs! Sell fish!
Excellent!
E.M.Smith (22:56:54) :
Very Interesting Perspective.
I figure that a one world govt would see massive insurgencies. Too many people would hate it for all sorts of reasons.
Besides which, there are no external entities that a one world govt could offer as scapegoats for people to transfer their issues on too. It would all go internal – hence no unity and conflict.
BTW: George Orwell had a solution for that, hide the one world govt behind three factions – oceania is always at war with eastasia (or was it eurasia… – anyway the ministry of truth will sort out the recorded history) to allow for perpetual conflict and blame.
MikeE (23:49:52) “I recall green peace doing a protest about it… but they protested against the opposition party, instead o the political party that nationalized the carbon credits…. i found that amusing at the time.;-)”
I think we need to start thinking about what the systems will morph into over time. I imagine, years from now, speeches like, “Well, the reason that was introduced … You see, at the time … BUT …& so … (changes) … & thus… No one could have foreseen….”
I imagine people are thinking, “Get the system in place using this momentum. Later we’ll change it into something useful. We can’t waste this momentum. We can morph the system into something useful later after we use this momentum to get it into place.”
Thanks for the notes.
I love the smell of crashing carbon commodities in the morning…..
Whoever shorted CCX CFI when it was over $7 is very happy right now.
“…the new game in town, the next bubble, is in carbon credits — a booming trillion dollar market … a groundbreaking new commodities bubble, disguised as an “environmental plan,” called cap-and-trade. The new carboncredit market is a virtual repeat of the commodities-market casino…”
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/29127316/the_great_american_bubble_machine/7
Today I received a very interesting lesson in how financial markets may or may not work from you guys. It’s nice to rub shoulders with intelligent posters. However, I can sum up the carbon credits situation in one short word and with no financial strategy lesson required:
FRAUD!
Last time I looked, committing fraud was a crime.
“Unfortunately, to get the scheme moved forward, the politicians had to basically give away “carbon indulgences” to all the impacted industries, and that excess supply drove the price down in the open market… So that sort of answers the “who” and the “Cap and Tirade” law impacts…”
…The UK power companies were GIVEN these credits by the Government, and the power companies SOLD the credits to consumers by adding whatever they judged they could get away with to our bills. So we all ended up paying hundreds of millions of pounds for nothing. Thanks Al.
“Ron House (23:03:56) :
In fact gold and silver are very useful elements, restricted in that use by their rarity value. Silver is the best thing to make electrical power lines due to its excellent conductivity.”
But silver is 4 times as heavy as aluminium, so you will have mechanical problems. That is why a power line is made from a combination of aluminium and steel. But wires can be copper.
To whoever censored my comments about the FREE carbon credits given to the power companies in the UK, I suggest you read this page:
http://www.power-to-the-people.co.uk/tag/carbon-credits/
Notice near the last paragraph on this item it clearly states “The government should investigate the generous £9bn windfall the energy companies received in carbon credits and if it was incorrectly assessed, then the difference should be clawed back. The Competitions Commission must launch an enquiry into competition in the UK market and publish their findings, based on which, the government must legislate if necessary.”
Further enquiries can be made to verify everything I said in my original post to any reputable organisation including the Consumers Association, also known as Which?
E.M.Smith (22:56:54) :
Any particular recommendations for south sea islands?
Kate (02:17:33) :
Curiously he asks, “Did GHG emission levels drop as a result of all of these hundreds of millions of pounds being spent, as well as the higher charges for consumers?”
wattsupwiththat (14:27:07) :
“…Actually I think there is money to be made here. Buy up $20 worth. In a few years the certificates will be a novelty and would probably have saleability on Ebay for $5 each, especially if they were nicely engraved..…”
well, you’ll probably like this one:
http://www.rahmstorf.eu/co2pins/background.htm
” Geoff Sherington (03:10:36) :
Kate (02:17:33) :
Curiously he asks, “Did GHG emission levels drop as a result of all of these hundreds of millions of pounds being spent, as well as the higher charges for consumers?”
…No, they actually went up due to enduring the coldest winter in 19 years.
In fact you can throw a pure gold coin in the ocean, leave it for a 1000 years or so, then pick it out, clean it up and it will look the same as it did 1000 years previously.
You could take this same 1000 year old coin and go and buy food with it.
Everything else would have disintegrated.
Lesson I learned long ago: In the seventies I worked for a very large multinational engineering company that produced electronic equipment. Their international contracts for equipment supply were in the billions of dollars back in the early seventies. The financial chief once told me not to be naive and think that the company made that much profit from the actual sale of the equipment.
Commissions for arranging loans from banks, interest rates, inter currency transaction rates and money market. This was the cream. The company was owned by a consortium of private banks.
Gov wants to slow down the consumption of carbon based fuels just tax them! Why do we need this overly convoluted scheme?
Because the United Nations says so.
The United Nations wants carbon credits because they get to be in charge of international trade in carbon credits, certification, etc, and the consequent huge money flows.
Whether it was their intent or not, the result will be fraud on a scale never before seen on planet Earth.
Henry chance (15:52:40) :
“Voodoo economics. This a fake product. it will be impossible to hold and establish value on. A CPA will not allow these fakes to be valued on a company balance sheet. They aren’t audited and are worth less than penney stocks. Rolling Stone magazine wrote about Goldman Sachs getting this mess ramped up.
Just for the record, there must be a few people that made a killing riding these up to 7 dollars.”
Yes, credits have been bought by electricity producers.
They will simply bill their customers to compensate for their loss.
MikeE (23:49:52) :
Paul Vaughan (22:52:23) :
“the whole story here(NZ), is that when carbon credits were introduced, the government nationalized the carbon credits, so private forestry owners didnt recieve them(most farmers had blocks of pines also). Native forests however are protected.
Basically the bottom has fallen out of the price of wood, where as commodity prices have soared(ironically partly due too land diversions to bio fuels across the globe, obviously effecting supply) So as the pine forests are being felled, they are not being replanted where its topographically possible to get a far greater return through dairy farming.
I recall green peace doing a protest about it… but they protested against the opposition party, instead o the political party that nationalized the carbon credits…. i found that amusing at the time.;-)”
This is yet another example how bad Green schemes effect out environment.
Carbon capture technologies will double the amount of coal to produce the equivalent amount of electric power, Palm Oil (for bio kerosine) kills tropical forests and biodiversity, bio fuels increase the price of food and increase water consumption
etc, etc.
Green is mad and bad.
Looks like the price of carbon credits correlate to sunspot activity, not CO2 emissions, just like the price of wheat. I so enjoy the irony of it.