Dr. Syun Akasofu: 20 points of context on global warming, politics, and the economy of the world.

From Roger Pielke Sr. – Guest Weblog By Syun Akasofu Of International Arctic Research Center At The University of Alaska Fairbanks

Dr. Syun Akasofu has provided us with a guest weblog based on a translation from Japanese of an article he wrote. I pleased to use my weblog to communicate viewpoints on climate science issues from credentialed climate scientists.

Recommendation to postpone the 2009 Copenhagen Conference:

The so-called “global warming” issue viewed in the context of politics and the economy of the world.

Syun Akasofu International Arctic Research Center

1. The US must have decided to drop the making of cars as their primary manufacturing activity and gave it to Japan. The Obama administration and the US public believe that enough has been done for the ailing car makers, and hope that they will be able to survive by making good electric (not fossil fuel powered) cars.

2. What does this mean? In the history of manufacturing, there has been a trend in which advanced countries lose their primary manufacturing capabilities one after another to developing countries. The textile industry in the UK was taken over by the US, then by Japan, then by China and others. The iron manufacturing industry in the UK was taken over by the US, then by Japan, and then China and other ‘catching-up’ countries. The car manufacturing industry in the UK was taken over by the US (mainly by GM), then Japan (Toyota and Honda), and some day perhaps China. This historical trend cannot be stopped. (The US tried to take over the world’s financing activities from the UK, which had lost interest in manufacturing altogether, but failed miserably in the recent days and caused the current economic recession.)

3. Then, the question is what kind of primary manufacturing industry is the US going to choose to work on in the future? It is likely that the Obama administration has chosen the construction of atomic power plants as the next great US manufacturing effort.

4. The reasons for choosing atomic power plants are obvious. First of all, the US has to secure future electric power because electricity is needed for everything, including future electric cars. The US wants to get away from its reliance on oil (and the unstable oil-producing countries), which will undoubtedly either diminish or become very expensive within the next 50 years. Reducing oil imports will reduce the great deficit. It should be noted that the primary purpose of changing from carbon power to atomic power is not necessarily to reduce the release of CO2 and global warming. It is an excuse. This will become clearer as we look into the related issues.

5. How is global warming related to atomic power? In order to understand this question, it is important to learn how the global warming issue was born. In the 1980s, Margaret Thatcher, then the British Prime Minister, came to the conclusion that the UK needed atomic power energy for their future, but she faced strong objections by her people. It was also about the time when the first crude computer simulation of the greenhouse effect of CO2 was made, and it predicted a great disaster and catastrophe due to the expected temperature rise, unless the release of CO2 could be greatly reduced.

Margaret Thatcher must have taken this result into account in promoting atomic power, asking her people to choose either atomic power or global disaster/catastrophe, which would require a great sacrifice in their standard of living in order to avoid it. Without her strong endorsement, the IPCC would not have been established. She also established the Hadley Climate Research Center for further study of the effects of CO2. Until that time, climatology was a rather quiet science (not something dealt with in newspaper headlines), but Thatcher put a great spotlight on it for her political purposes. Therefore, although the CO2 hypothesis is appropriate as a hypothesis in science, the IPCC was related to atomic power from its birth and its destiny was to predict a great disaster/catastrophe. This, in spite of the criticism that the IPCC is predicting the end of the world, although we are not doing very well at even predicting the next day’s weather or the severity of the next winter. Science was used for political purposes. At the same time, the world news media was looking for something exciting to report on because the Cold War was ending. Global warming and reporting on imaginary disasters/catastrophes caused by CO2 has become one of their major headline topics.

6. How is the history of global warming and the IPCC related to the Obama administration’s interest in atomic power plants, making the construction of atomic power plants as the new primary manufacturing industry of the US? This is because if they proposed atomic power plants by singling the issue out, they will face fierce opposition of the people. Since the Three Mile Island plant accident, there has been no atomic plant built on US soil. Therefore, the Obama administration, like Thatcher, will ask the people to choose between atomic power plants (maintaining or improving their present standard of living) or a great disaster/catastrophe caused by CO2 (actually, reducing drastically the present living standard, including not being able to drive (electric) cars).

7. For these reasons, from the perspective of the Obama administration, the greater the disaster/catastrophe predicted due to CO2, the better it is for the purpose of promoting atomic energy. As a first step toward the goal of switching to atomic power, the Obama administration states that atomic energy is “green” (meaning no air pollution), that atomic energy is “non-carbon”, and even that CO2 is “unhealthy”. Note also that Obama uses the words “climate change”, not “global warming.”

The physics of CO2, absorbing and re-emitting infrared radiation is clear. On the other hand, geophysicists must find how much heating CO2 will cause when a given amount of it is released into the complex earth system. Thus, in this situation it is meaningless and useless for the real science of global warming/climate to face off against the political decisions and propaganda for the planning of atomic power plants.

8. One problem in this particular discipline of science is that scientists who base their research on computer simulations have become too arrogant, saying that they can predict the temperature in 2100, although too much is still unknown about the earth system. Ignoring natural causes of climate change and even unknown aspects of cloud physics, they rely on computer work in predicting the temperature rise in 2100. However, a computer is like a robot. It can perform only what it is instructed to do by the programs produced by the human brain. If a computer program is incorrect or inaccurate, the output will also be incorrect or inaccurate. In science, incorrect programs or hypotheses (produced by one or a group of scientists) are criticized by other scientists and can thus be improved. That is the way science should progress. However, the IPCC regards those who criticize them as “skeptics”, or “deniers”, etc., and brought this newborn and immature science to the international stage. They stated in 2007 that scientists have done all they can and that the science is settled, and the rest of the task should be in the hands of policy makers. Such a statement is very irresponsible.

9. However, even if the US decides that its next primary manufacturing industry is the construction of atomic power plants, there will be fierce competition between the US group (US, Japan, Russia) and the French group, which has more experience than the US, at last in the safety of operation. (A further problem is that Toshiba owns much of the Westinghouse stock.) There will eventually be uranium wars in the future; energy securing wars will continue forever.

10. The Obama administration is promoting wind power and solar power. However, there is no way to supply more than 10% of the US power needs (Obama says that they should try for 20%, but has he estimated the cost involved?) It is only about 2.5% at present. In any case, 80-90% of future electric power has to be found.

11. The US has to rely on coal power plants (at present 40%), until a large number of atomic power plants can be built, perhaps about 15-20 years from now. Thus, there is no way for the US to agree on any international agreement on a near-future CO2 reduction at the present time. The US has been saying that unless China and India agree to a significant reduction of the release of CO2, any agreement is useless. On the other hand, the US has made China its factory, and furthermore the US owes a great debt to China. Unless China can remain healthy, politically and financially, and with sufficient energy, the US will have a serious problem. Therefore, the US cannot force China to reduce its CO2 emission. On the other hand, in spite of the fact that China is now “richer” than the US, it continues to claim that it is still one of the developing countries and that the developed countries should reduce their release of CO2 first. The US and China must surely understand each other, so that the above statements are only rhetorical. The IPCC chairman has stated recently that India will not agree to a “cap”. Further, global capitalism is such that the rest of the world relies on the US buying power (even if they are using credit cards), so that the US economy has to be healthy. EU officials have had a large number of conferences on the reduction of CO2, but they have not reached any conclusion they can agree on.

12. For the above reasons, is it useful to have any more conferences on global warming? How many international conferences with the heads of nations have been held in the past? There has been no substantive agreement on the amount of release of CO2 by individual countries, in spite of the fact that protecting the earth from the CO2-based disaster/catastrophe should be the most solemn duty of the heads of nations (although environmental destruction caused by global capitalism is conveniently forgotten). So far, all the past conferences ended with a “fight” between rich nations and poor nations. The latter trying to snatch money from the former using the so-called “cap and trade” as an excuse, and the former trying to protect themselves from such an assault, in spite of the fact that the “cap and trade” negotiations have no effect on reducing the overall release of CO2. It is suspected that the heads of nations do not really believe in the global disaster/catastrophe scenario caused by CO2. However, they stated they believe in the IPCC, so they cannot publicly say that they do not believe in the disaster scenario, because they and their countries would be called enemies of humanity, like George W. Bush.

13. It has been said that the only thing they agreed on at the past conferences is to decide on the time and place for the next meeting. Such conferences are useless, although they are better than a world war. It is suggested that they should postpone future meetings until the science of global warming will advance farther. It is not too late, as the proponents of global warming advocate, since there has been no predicted disaster/catastrophe after the release of CO2 increased rapidly in 1946. In the tropics and middle latitude, there has been no discernible disaster/catastrophe so far. This is why the world media flocks to the Arctic and reports on erroneous global warming effects. None of the phenomena and changes they reported are related even remotely to the CO2 effects. A good example is glacier calving at the terminus. Nevertheless, the world media reports that the changes are caused by the CO2 effect.

14. In Japan, they are overjoyed by the statements of President Obama, saying that he is quite serious about “global warming” (actually, he says “climate change” instead of global arming). They interpret his statements as a sign that the US has finally become serious about the release of CO2, and that Obama is different from George W. Bush.

15. It is very unfortunate that science is being used for political purposes. Global warming is an imaginary product used for promoting the atomic power industry. When the truth will eventually become apparent, the credibility of science will be seriously damaged, since so many scientists (not only climatologists, but also many scientists in general) blindly trusted the IPCC and accused their opponents as “skeptics” and “deniers”, etc.

16. Actually, judging by what has been described earlier, the IPCC is NOT a scientific research organization, although they skillfully mobilized 2500 “world experts in climatology”; they were used by the IPCC, some probably unwittingly. The IPCC skillfully created the impression of “consensus” among 2500 scientists. Their contribution, a large volume of publications, is conveniently used for the IPCC publication, “Summary for Policy Makers”, as an apparent back-up document, although the IPCC charter clearly states that they are not supposed to make recommendations to policy makers.

The IPCC has tried to emphasize that global warming began unexpectedly and abruptly after 1900 because of the enhanced release of CO2. However, global warming began as early as 1800-1850s at the same rate as the present (0.5°C/100 years), namely about 100 years earlier than the beginning of a rapid increase of CO2 release, as the earth began to recover from the Little Ice Age (1400-1800). The recovery from a cold period is warming. Actually, the warming until 2000 and the present cooling trend can reasonably be explained as natural changes. The IPCC has ignored natural changes as at least a partial cause of global warming, in order to promote their CO2 hypothesis.

17. The IPCC tried to ignore the fact that the earth experienced the Little Ice Age by using the co-called “hockey stick” figure, because it is not convenient to know that the global warming began in 1800-1850, and not as they claim in the 20th century. The recovery from the Little Ice Age (a cold period) is warming. How many of the 2500 scientists trust the hockey stick figure? Perhaps only very few. Is this then the “consensus” of 2,500 experts in climatology? Unfortunately, the IPCC and the world media have presented this hypothesis as a fact.

18. There is another reason for proposing the postponement of future global warming conferences. After 1998 or 2000, global temperature has stopped rising and shows a sign of cooling, in spite of the fact that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is still rapidly rising. This is an observed fact. Therefore, their temperature prediction for the year 2100 has already failed during the first 10 years. However, IPCC scientists have not recognized it, saying that it is just a temporal change; but 10 years of consistent change is considered climate change.

19. The world political leaders should be able to decide to postpone future conferences until scientists could find the causes for the present halting of global warming. Temporary or not, there must be unknown forces and causes to suppress the CO2 effect or even overcome it.

20. We should bring back the science of climate change to a basic science, avoiding interferences by policy makers and the world mass media. Only then can this particular science proceed in a scientifically healthy way. Only then can we discuss any global warming hypothesis as proponents and opponents (instead of as “believers” and “skeptics” or “deniers” in the religious sense), regardless of one side being in the majority or minority. In science, unlike in politics, a minority can be right.

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Alan the Brit
September 2, 2009 2:00 am

I think Mr Akasofu has done a very good job of summarising the situation, although I suspect that Uranium Wars will not happen, well not on any significant scale! Surely there is still the potential to use hydrogen extracted from seawater to produce energy, after all it is the most explosive element in the Universe so far known. If we cannot put that to good use then we really are a sorry bunch. If we can put the damned stuff into cars well who knows where the ceiling lies?
BTW – Disneyland (UK) has started its Autumnal dance with lunacy already – every other media stream has to mention C/C somewhere. Yesterday we had a probably well educated, intelligent reporter ( he was the BBC’s “Science” correspondent I believe) on the BBC News commenting on the latest pronouncement from the Institution of Mechanical Engineers, stating with great emphasis & passion (he’d been on the “I am a caring reporter” full weekend course I suspect) that “the trouble is we’ve put so much carbon into the atmosphere that the planet can no longer cope”! From whence this profound piece of wisdom came is anybody’s guess, the poor dear chap, woudn’t do to actually think about it all for a few moments would it? He had all the authority of an IPCC Chairman. I guarantee the BBC will have such topics rammed down our throats almost daily all the way “to Copenhagen & beyond!”, (now that’s a phrase that could catch on). All the old hackneyed stories about Arctic ice melt (they’ll get those Catlin goons in there somewhere), Antarctic ice melt, sea-level rises, the Hockey Stick, the AR4 SPM, et al. I dare say the US will ditto!

DaveE
September 2, 2009 2:01 am

As a P.S. to my above post.
Nuclear is given a carbon equivalence by the E.U..
This makes France one of the worst carbon polluters in the eyes of the E.U.!
The French however are even more arrogant & pig-headed than the British and will therefore take bugger-all notice of what the E.U. tells them to do and good on them is all I can say to that!
I just wish our government would grow some balls & tell the E.U. where they can stick their directives.
DaveE.

rbateman
September 2, 2009 2:02 am

Good advice: Give up the Climate Change edicts and cancel C02penhagen. One library burned at Alexandria was enough, don’t you think?
Besides, you heard the man, all Obama is really after is an excuse to slap up those Nukular things.
Fusion, I hate to say, isn’t even practicable at this point. About as useful as perpetual motion, only in this case, perpetually 30 years away.
Now, there’s just a messy detail or two:
1.) Where are you going to put all that nuclear waste and
2.) If you’re thinking about breeder reactors you have a proliferation/theft problem that’s through the roof. Suffice to say there’s some nasty problems to be solved with nuclear power on scale.
Meanwhile, there’s something going on with the Sun that needs attention.

September 2, 2009 2:08 am

Flanagan (22:51:30) :
The argument that “temperatures stopped increasing while CO2 was rising” is somewhat surprising coming from an educated guy. Especially since one simply has to take a look at the 1980-2000 period to see that such “slowing downs” appeared several times.

Those slowdowns were caused by Pinatubo and El Chichon eruptions and lasted 2-3 years. There have not been such event since 2000, but there were oceanic oscillations going negative or neutral.
Concerning AGW political motives, they vary – from hardcore eugenics, tax-hungry politics, socialists wanting to finally destroy capitalism, Europeans jealous with US prosperity, nutters with self-destroying tendencies, third world countries expecting payments from the West for “new technologies” (understand – new source of corruption money), big business ready to make a deal with governments to sell their products like wind turbines, up to dreamers about one worldwide government.

rbateman
September 2, 2009 2:09 am

Jim B in Canada (00:33:16) :
Nukular, failsafe?? Until there’s an accident, it’s always presumed safe. Checked up on Chernobyl lately?
How about those idiots contemplating sticking Nukes in Volcanoes?
How about those terrorists who would die for the chance to get their hands on some nuclear stuff?
Ok, I’ve ranted enough.
How about a catchy slogan?
21st century: Powered by Pandorra.

Adam Gallon
September 2, 2009 2:10 am

A very succinct examination of the state of play.
As has been reported in the UK media yesterday, http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/environment/article6816796.ece, we’re highly likely to be facing power cuts within the next 8 years, as our current (& hopefully soon to be replaced!) Government has vasilated over the past decade or so, about how to replace our existing nuclear power plants, as they reach the end of their designed life spans.
They’ve compounded their error by agreeing to close coal-fired plant, so we can do our bit to “Fight Climate Change”!
“The looming power shortage is caused by the scheduled closure by 2015 of nine oil and coal-fired power plants, as part of anti-pollution measures”
The “renewables” phantom is noted
“The latest figures cast doubt over the Government’s pledge that renewable sources can make up for lower output from nuclear and coal. ”
I think the good Dr has hit the nail right on the head here.
” It is suspected that the heads of nations do not really believe in the global disaster/catastrophe scenario caused by CO2″
The much-maligned President Bush seems, in my eyes, to have fitted this perfectly. Ignoring the idiocies of Rio, Kyoto. etc, etc, until someone whispered in his ear…”George, there’s votes to be lost by your stance, it may be right, but just say you’ll sign us up, then do what the French do, ignore the parts you don’t like”

JamesG
September 2, 2009 2:19 am

He’s right about Thatcher starting the CO2 scaremongering: Confirmed by Nigel Lawson. But some facts get lost with time. Yes she wanted to destroy the powerful coal mining union but the nuclear lobby had lied to her about real costs and she only discovered the truth when nobody wanted to buy the nuclear industry during privatisation attempts. It was eventually sold off to foreigners on promises that the UK taxpayer would underwrite all cleanup costs. The pseudo-greening was just a good excuse to raise fuel taxes – to the detriment of what remained of UK industry. Meantime natural gas came onstream in huge amounts and saved the day. That free fossil fuel bonanza was frittered away on paying all the newly unemployed from her abandonment of manufacturing. Now the oil and gas is running out so nuclear has been put on the table again. And again they are realizing just how expensive it is. The only way forward I see for the UK is coal-to-gas tech. Happily they still have 200 years worth of coal left. You can only use what you’ve got.
IMO the policy from Thatcher through to Blair was a) move money around instead of making things, b) sell all your assets cheaply to pirates, c) pretend your short-term fossil fuel bonanza is really long-term growth, d) adjust unemployment numbers with endless accounting tricks, e) hike up GDP with household debt. This tooth-fairy policy, labelled “the economic miracle” was adopted by the World Bank and the IMF and forced on 3rd world economies where it failed every time. Reality bites eventually.
I wonder how many predictions of thermageddon need to fail before people like Flanagan become a little skeptical.

Stefan
September 2, 2009 2:25 am

I’m fond of this analysis. We live in a big world with lots of competing ideologies, lifestyles, and values. AGW affects everything so every group can hitch its own agenda to it.
The greens I read about and have met seem to want a simpler lifestyle of community and sharing, and a system that’s less materialistic and slower. Basically they’re like lay Buddhist feminist psychotherapists who’ve projected God onto Nature. One environmentalist told me straight up that AGW didn’t even have to be real, because it was really about “reducing greed”.
Meanwhile the typical modern person who is used to material progress, education, medical advances, stability, and so on, sees AGW as a way to reduce dependence on the Middle East and reduce the prospect of more wars. New technology sounds appealing and obviously we don’t want it to come with problems like pollution, so there is some interest in so-called “clean renewables”.
There’s more groups, but try to imagine what a politician must be thinking. In addition to the population at large, there are business interests, the various engines of the economy, the sources of energy and power and growth. The politicians have a country to run. Like them or not, they don’t on the whole wish to see our nation ruined. There are limits to what they can achieve. There are social trends, fashions, different groups with different worldviews. How to you get your plans implemented?
Both Obama and Brown have made speeches recently where they talk about the environment, about world peace, about renewables, about climate change, about new jobs, and if you listen carefully, they do pop in the word “nuclear”.

H.R.
September 2, 2009 2:33 am

From the post:
“It is likely that the Obama administration has chosen the construction of atomic power plants as the next great US manufacturing effort.”
Obama will have to get that one past his base. Good luck with that!
Will “manufacturing” nuclear plants put 6-8 million people back to work? I don’t think so.

P Wilson
September 2, 2009 2:35 am

UK Sceptic. It may well be that he’s covering old ground. However, there are billions of people who are unaware and kept in ignorance, and for whom it would be quite revealing. Just like Galileo is old ground now regarding the motion of the planets around the sun, in his day it was heresy. We’re in the position of Galileo before the inquisition.

Adam Soereg
September 2, 2009 2:39 am

Amazing article, it should be a must read for anyone who is interested in global climate change and/or in energy politics.

Alan Chappell
September 2, 2009 2:41 am

The article as translated from the original Japanese gets his message across, critics please read the original then comment !
The world needs a new energy source , be it butterfly milk or starlight. Why nuclear ? simple, money, it is a money maker, if the same amount of research finance/energy was invested into the ”heat beneath our feet” the problem would have been solved a hundred years ago, what is that problem ? it’s free, all the worlds countries have ”geological hot spots” but it would seem, that, ”butterfly milk ” is the only way to go !

Flanagan
September 2, 2009 2:45 am

Hi there!
Anna (and others): if temperatures were strictly following CO2, that would prove CO2 is the ONLY climatic driver. The fact that GCMs including greenhouse-based feedback can reproduce the observed variations is a sign that it plays a role. Another such sign is the fact that no model not taking into account such a feedback can do it. Moreover, most GCMs correctly predicted the 1990-2009 trend. Try to read other sources of information
http://bravenewclimate.com/2009/02/08/how-hot-should-it-have-really-been-over-the-last-5-years/
Richard: we’re not talking about parts in the US market, but about what happens to the US car industry. Chrysler is now part of Fiat. GM is selling parts to Magna, or possibly to a Belgian consortium.

jmrSudbury
September 2, 2009 2:49 am

I had a good chuckle when I read the global arming typo. — John M Reynolds

JimB
September 2, 2009 2:57 am

Flanagan,
I don’t think Fiat and Magna are the result of displaced auto manufacturing in the U.S. Clearly the premis was that the U.S. chose not to build and buy Chevys and Fords, and chose instead to “let” Japan build Nissans and Toyotas and bought those instead. I don’t think Fiat and/or Magna enter into the U.S. auto equation. I understand that they have an impact in the UK, and that the fewer cars GM and Ford produces overall, the bigger the opportunity for Fiat and Magna to grow, but that’s not his point.
Jim B in Canada,
Your scenario assumes that there is much hand-wringing by the leader of the 1st world industrial country over the loss of manufacturing. I don’t believe this to be the case. Politicians have essentially pushed manufacturing OUT of this country for the sake of votes. The second place your scenario falls down is in making fossil-fueled energy “bad” for the new manufacturing base. China has no such concern over their energy usage, and has made that pretty clear. We’re not going to get China to buy U.S.-made windmills OR nuclear power plants. China is pretty happy to build whatever they need, and right now, from their perspective, the U.S. is an interesting economic experiment that takes place “over there”, and has little or no impact on their future plans, other than the fact that they can exercise complete control over the U.S. economy at any time of their choosing.
Back to Dr. Akasofu’s writings, I disagree with the whole premise regarding Obama becoming a nuclear power advocate. First, it would hardly make a dent in the manufacturing losses the U.S. has incurred. Second, politically, he won’t be around long enough to pull this flip-flop off, as there is every indication that his administration is such and abismal failure in almost every aspect, that a second term is highly unlikely at this point. The only support he has left right now are the hard-core leftists, and were he to start promoting nuclear power, he would lost even them.
The other point that plays into this, that Dr. Akasofu fails to expand upon is money. It’s been said many times that AGW is a money machine. True, it currently has some cracked gears and is leaking oil (pun intended), but the old gal is still running, and as long as that’s true it gives hope that the meme can be used to extract untold billions of dollars to feed the political machine.
In short, no AGW =’s no means to fund approx. 1/3 of the proposed budget.
JimB

September 2, 2009 3:02 am

I have a cunning plan…
We lobby our respective governments to point out that as the ‘science is settled’ no more research funds are needed to study climate change and that as the tax is no longer needed it should be returned to taxpayers.
That will immediately ensure that all the various climate research organisations will immediately lobby Govt for funds for their particular project citing a ‘special case.’
This will flush out thousands of projects and enable the world to see that far from being settled, the science has barely scratched the surface.
I would hazard a guess that faced with funding cuts EVERY research organisation will suddenly admit that on reflection they don’t know as much as they claimed.
We might then be able to have a sensible debate and a little more humility from those who think they have all the answers.
Tonyb

September 2, 2009 3:12 am

Good to see that people still know what they are talking about. So much BS around these days!

Jari
September 2, 2009 3:13 am

I live in France. My monthly electricity bill from EDF has the following information:
Power generated in 2008:
nuclear power 82.9%
renewable energy 9.3% of which 7.5% from hydropower
3.1% coal
3.0% gas
1.4% oil
0.3% other sources
I think the French are doing it the right way. The French are also building a new nuclear power plant in Finland (5th nuclear power station there).
I pay 0.0802 EUR/kWh. Go nuclear.

Tiles
September 2, 2009 3:14 am

Anna V
“When fusion comes on line the energy sources, from the seas and oceans, will be plenty for all.”
I was, 30 years ago, confidently predicting to my students at the time economic meltdown for the Gulf States when fusion power made their oil-based economies obsolete. Are we any closer to achieving sustainable fusion power or is this goal still but a distant pipe-dream?

Another Ian
September 2, 2009 3:28 am

I was in an interesting conversation recently, the bit relevant to this thread summarised as:-
– A major backup for European “green” power is French nuclear electricity
– The French solution to the looming UK power problem – “How about we build another 5 or 6 nuclear plants and sell you the electricity?”

Allen63
September 2, 2009 3:35 am

I don’t know if his theory about Obama and nuclear is right — as the “far left” seems unshakably anti-nuclear.
I, however, am pro-nuclear. So, I hope we do start a major nuclear power effort — eventually morphing into fusion energy production. I can dream, can’t I?

DaveF
September 2, 2009 3:43 am

As a Brit myself, it’s a touch depressing to read in the above comments that this global warming scam was started by Mrs Thatcher’s government. I hadn’t realised before that it was all our fault. Er……Sorry, folks!

September 2, 2009 3:44 am

It is nice to have these thoughts about nuclear base-load energy independence, but I’m sure that they are not Obama’s plans.
Firstly, Obama brought in the original $700 billion (say it quickly, it doesn’t sound a lot…) stimulus package.
I commented at the time that if he really wanted a simulus, the $700 billion not be spent on bailing out Wall Street cronies, but be spent on modern nuclear plants – $2 billion each is roughly seven (7) brand new, state of the art pebble bed reactors in each and every state in the USA. 350 new reactors, bring the United States’ capacity to somewhere near France’s level of energy security.
But nooooooooooooooooooo.
There is no way that Obama’s socialist minders will ever allow anything like this to happen.
All they desire is the complete and utter destruction of Western industrialised society.
Thinking that Obama has a “plan” for nuclear is just dreaming.

P Wilson
September 2, 2009 4:02 am

Certainly during the 80’s Thatcher was at war with coal miners, and Middle East Oil Barons, so the AGW thesis suited her ambitions. This was the first step in the politicisation of science. Then came James Lovelock saying it would be so bad that only nuclear power could make a difference. I’m sure that if all the world’s problems regarding international politics and energy were to come to an end, this AGW thesis would cease to exist. In other words, the process is advocacy and politics based, and not scientific

kim
September 2, 2009 4:07 am

There is a lot of wisdom and insight here by Akasofu. He’s absorbed many lessons from a diverse number of fields. I’m less impressed with nuclear as the ultimate driving force of present political trends; I think Akasofu correctly describes the confusion among politicians, and the reason for it which is the failure of AGW science, but I think he imputes more disguised nuclear fervor than is present. Obama and the wild and crazy guys, Chu and Holdren, still believe in the chimera of alternative, so-called renewable, energy sources. Obama, the Chicago homeboy, is also dearly beholden to biofuel interests.
If, as present science is now showing, that CO2 is not a climate threat, then fossil fuels will continue to dominate energy production, being only replaced in the energy market by nuclear as the need for hydrocarbons for structure rises. Biofuels are counterproductive except for specialized uses, and solar and wind are too land intensive and not energy dense enough to ever solve many problems. They are, at best, a gigawatt solution to a terrawatt problem.
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