Weather variations, not global warming cause glacier melt
From the The Hindu, 9 August 2009
excerpts:
New Delhi (PTI): Himalayan glaciers, including the world’s highest battlefield Siachen, are melting due to variations in weather and not because of global warming, Jammu University scientists have claimed.
…
Geologists R K Ganjoo and M N Koul of Jammu University’s Regional Centre for Field Operations and Research of Himalayan Glaciology visited the Siachen glacier to record changes in its snout last summer.
“To our surprise, the Siachen glacier valley does not preserve evidences of glaciation older than mid-Holocene, suggesting that the glacier must have advanced and retreated simultaneously several times in the geological past, resulting in complete obliteration and modification of older evidences,” they said reporting their findings in ‘Current Science’.
Ganjoo and Koul dubbed as “hype” some earlier studies which suggested that the Himalayan glaciers were melting fast and caused serious damage to the Himalayan ecosystem.
There is sufficient field and meteorological evidence from the other side of Karakoram mountains that corroborate the fact that glaciers in this part of the world are not affected by global warming, they said.
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Ganjoo said that the east part of the Siachen glacier showed faster withdrawal of the snout that is essentially due to ice-calving, a phenomenon that holds true for almost all major glaciers in the Himalayas and occurs irrespective of global warming.
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Ganjoo contended the Siachen glacier shows hardly any retreat in its middle part and thus defies the “hype” of rapid melting.
The research findings by R.K. Ganjoo and M.N. Koul are published in today’s issue of CURRENT SCIENCE, VOL. 97, NO. 3, 10 AUGUST 2009 and are available at http://www.ias.ac.in/currsci/aug102009/309.pdf
(h/t to Benny Peiser)
Glaciers ‘naturally’ wax and wane. Again man’s signature is absent.
Another question to the attending class: What is the goal of those who promote “global warming” and/or “climate change” in the developed world?
What a surprise, the melting and reformation of Himalayan glaciers responds routinely to the latitudinal positions of the main air circulation systems as they move poleward in response to increased energy output from the oceans and equatorward from decreased energy output from the oceans.
Just like everywhere else on the planet.
@ur momisugly Jimmy Haigh (08:16:14) : & UK Sceptic (07:59:15) :
You may find this article of interest – http://www.american.com/archive/2009/july/the-omnivore2019s-delusion-against-the-agri-intellectuals
OT but related: Why do greens wear red shirts?
http://australianclimatemadness.blogspot.com/2009/06/hidden-agenda-of-climate-change.html
Nothing new here – please move along.
Clear historical evidence that glaciers are never static, but always in a state of advance or decline. Glaciers are not an indicator of global climate, although could be considered to be one of local micro-climate, perhaps. This is evidenced currently by glaciers around the world being in one state or the other at the same moment in time.
There is so much rubbish science / political spin around this topic it beggars belief!!!
Well since the AGW minions referenced here will doubtless point to glacial melt as evidence, perhaps this isn’t entirely off topic. BTW, anyone know people in St. Louis?
http://cbullitt.wordpress.com/2009/08/09/want-a-job-selling-agw-door-to-door-for-algore/
“the glacier must have advanced and retreated simultaneously several times ”
I’m not sure but I don’t think they intended to use the word ‘simultaneously’ here. Is this a translation error?
I guess if it retreated and advanced ‘simultaneously’ it pretty much just stayed where it was?
but, but, but….the weather variations are CAUSED BY global warming…
LOL
Per Wikipedia:
“In glaciology, ablation refers to processes that remove snow and ice from a glacier[2] . Ablation may refer to the melting of snow or ice that runs off the glacier, evaporation, sublimation, calving, or removal of snow by wind.”
“Sublimation of an element or compound is a transition from the solid to gas phase with no intermediate liquid stage. Sublimation is an endothermic phase transition that occurs at temperatures and pressures below the triple point (see phase diagram). “
Thought that glacier loss on Kilimanjaro and the Himalayas was due to local deforestation.
Nogw (08:55:27)
I think you also might benefit from a look at the link Curiousgeorge just posted.
Not directly on topic but it gives a good flavour of what actually drives the eco-luddites which is all the warm-mongers really are.
Dave: we should acknowledge that the government that may have sponsored these scientists, might not welcome undue pressure to curb their own carbon emissions.
The trouble with arguing that scientisct can be corrupted, is that it implies that scientists can be corrupted. So we may as well ignore scientists, unless someone has a magic purity of heart test they can administer to find the one true and pure scientist.
If someone has an interest in proving something wrong, let them try to do it. Their motives don’t matter. If they succeed in uncovering greater truth, even if only for selfish reasons, then they have still done us all a favor.
Dave (07:50:06) :
I guess this is going to be the new attack vector for the AGWers. For years they have been pointing the finger and screaming “funded by big oil”. That doesn’t work because any so called funding by “big oil” is minuscule compared to the amount of funding pumped into climate “science”. We will now be hearing them scream “vested interest” instead.
It is true that countries like India and China have shown a remarkable insensitivity to the needs of the Western radical left.
Well heck, to illustrate the point the Chinese are now doing what they call an “American Fire Drill.”
They stop the car at a light and everyone gets out and runs about yelling things like “Millions will die” and “The seas are rising 20 feet”, etc.
It is a sign of our times.
Sam the Skeptic (10:02:33) :eco-luddites or plainly traitors of their respective countries ?
But if we had up weather variations over a period of time — isn’t that climate change? Yeah, that’s the ticket. Climate is weather over a period of time, so if the weather varies over a period of time — that’s climate change!
Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Sam the Skeptic – “Eco-luddites”.
Thanks, I might have to steal that some time. Nice one.
Stefan (10:16:07) :
So we may as well ignore scientists, unless someone has a magic purity of heart test
I do have that test, it is very simple: Anyone who never betrays his own convictions.
Dave (07:50:06) :
“Whilst I dont believe in runaway Global Warming to AGW, I think we must recognise that some countries have a vested interest now, in not believing in Global Warming. India would be one.”
Dave, I understand where you’re coming from in that it’s not in India’s near term economic growth interests to support the various CO2 limiting schemes being floated by the west.
However, if the alarmist agenda is correct and all the bad predicted things come to pass – flooding, drought, mass extinctions, halitosis, cats and dogs living together, etc. – the developing states will suffer far more from the effects of global warming than the developed ones.
It’s really in India’s best interests to have science be neutral in the policy debate, get to the truth of the matter and plan their future appropriately – as it is in our best interests as well.
So wait, I thought one of the primary proofs of AGW was the Himalayan glaciers melting. If AGW is not effecting them… then what is it doing?
“I do have that test, it is very simple: Anyone who never betrays his own convictions.” – Nogw (10:48:05):
Darn. I guess I failed that test. The “vested interest” lie I told when I was 12 will always come back to haunt. Yes, I broke the vase and have long regretted that I blamed the the dog.
Sikkim has the largest number of glaciers in India
The present number of glaciers at 84, with the mapping exercise still underway to find about out more ice caps in the state has grown by about four times over the past six years as the figure of glaciers stood at 21 at that time.
The rise in the number of glaciers belied the impact of the global warming phenomena in this region with the scientist pointing out that the impact of global warming has never been a factor in the climate of the border state with the state.
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report_sikkim-has-the-largest-number-of-glaciers-in-india_1144565
The problem is these are only real time observations.
OT: Americans cool to global warming !!!!!! [ up on Drudge]
“Recent surveys show Americans cooling to global warming, and they’re even less keen on environmental policies they believe might raise power bills or imperil jobs. Those sentiments could mean a tougher road ahead for elected officials looking to fund investments in renewable power or install a carbon cap-and-trade system……
http://www.lvrj.com/news/52828402.html
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/008200908090931.htm
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/002200801121040.htm
Not so new study.