INDIA ATTACKS WESTERN CLIMATE ALARMISM
Financial Times, 24 July 2009
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/c2896b88-77bd-11de-9713-00144feabdc0.html
By James Lamont in New Delhi, Joshua Chaffin in Are and Fiona Harvey in London
Himalayas a key area of contention.
Excerpts:
A split between rich and poor nations in the run-up to climate-change talks widened on Thursday.
India rejected key scientific findings on global warming, while the European Union called for more action by developing states on greenhouse gas emissions.
Jairam Ramesh, the Indian environment minister, accused the developed world of needlessly raising alarm over melting Himalayan glaciers.
He dismissed scientists’ predictions that Himalayan glaciers might disappear within 40 years as a result of global warming.
“We have to get out of the preconceived notion, which is based on western media, and invest our scientific research and other capacities to study Himalayan atmosphere,” he said.
“Science has its limitation. You cannot substitute the knowledge that has been gained by the people living in cold deserts through everyday experience.”
Mr Ramesh was also clear that India would not take on targets to cut its emissions, even though developed countries are asking only for curbs in the growth of emissions, rather than absolute cuts.
…
India has taken the hardest line in the negotiations so far. Along with China, India refused at the meeting of the Group of Eight industrialised nations this month to sign up to a target of cutting global emissions by half by 2050. The countries were holding out to gain concessions from the west on financing.
The claims from Mr Ramesh that Western science was wrong on the question of melting Himalayan glaciers appeared to reinforce Delhi’s recalcitrant stance.
Mr Ramesh this week challenged Hillary Clinton, US secretary of state, over her appeal to India to embrace a low-carbon future and not repeat the mistakes of the developed world in seeking fast industrialisation.
…
Mr Ramesh said the rate of retreat of glaciers in the Himalayas varied from a “couple of centimetres a year to a couple of metres”, but that this was a natural process that had taken place occurred over the centuries. Some were, in fact, growing, he said.
The glaciers – estimated by India’s space agency to number about 15,000 – had also been affected by debris and the large number of tourists, he said.
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Thank Shiva that the Indians are able to think a little more laterally and have avoided being sucked into the emotional drama of the alarmists. And if anyone has a chance to make money out of anthropomorphic warming it’s India. At least they are considering a well informed opinion in contrast to an emotional vortex.
With any luck India will avoid The New Green Dark Ages, as the west dives head first into politicised stupidity. Thanks for the article !
What’s going on at the BBC?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/8167209.stm
Great point (small caveat is I wouldn’t call it racist). But the greenies do suffer from this arrogance; they imagine they are the only ones who are ethically noble enough, and therefore superior enough, to handle the world’s problems. They continue to preach to us that the third world is full of “victims”, so surprise surprise when those “victims” turn around and restate their national right to do things their own way.
OT.
Check the development of El Nino, just a few weeks after NOAA predicted the most powerful El Nino since 1998, lasting to summer 2010 (Especially the lower pictures):
http://www.klimadebat.dk/forum/opdaterede-sol-is-hav-temp-grafer-osv–d12-e424-s360.php#post_13771
Has someone maybe got their sums wrong, Mr. Pachauri?
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@ur momisugly sykik (23:52:43) :
Just so you know; I’m quite sure that Al Gore’s climate dance is equally as effective as the Indian maids version. The major difference is that the Indian custom is not forcibly imposed on their neighbors, whereas the Climate bill being Rahmed thru Congress most certainly is; and at great cost to the general public. We are being raped, and then handed the bill by our rapist.
Aditi Mukherjee said:
But the fact remains that Himalayan glaciers are shrinking at an alarming rate. In Garhwal Himalayas (I am an avid trekker), I have seen that happen to about 10 glaciers myself. And the fact that local mountain guides are left scratching their head every summer, seeing how far the glacial snout has retreated.
The way out? It’s anybody’s guess!!
The way out is to relax; the glaciers are only doing what they’ve always done, which is to grow, then shrink, then grow again. There is no cause for fear and alarm over the glaciers, nor is there anything we can do to keep them from doing what they’ve always done. Shrinking glaciers are simply a convenient hook for the climate alarmists to use, since they are something you can actually see. If you need something to worry about, worry about lowered living standards and poverty, as it they are by far, the biggest threat not only to humanity but to the environment as well. Raising the cost of energy is one surefire way to lower living standards and increase poverty.
Wonder if we could out source California and GISS to the Indians?
India’s position?
Translation:
If you in the West want to commit economic and cultural suicide, have at it. That’ll just give us more money, power, and influence.
As for all your models that forecast doom by 2100, they’re right – doom for the US as it joins the UK on the world’s sidelines, reminiscing about its glory days, while we and China become the world’s economic powerhouses.
Steve in SC (05:45:19) :
Just because our leadership here has it collective head inserted into a black hole does not mean the rest of us willingly follow. We happen to be the sole case of Cap&Trade in the US. The inability of California to extricate itself from the wholesale damage Enron perpetratred on the State should send chills down your spine.
Ask not for whom the carbon bell tolls, it tolls for thee.
I think this should be the wattsupwiththat signature tune 🙂
India is one of the very few countries that has the lowest per capita CO2 emissions. About 8 to 10 times lower than USA. Still it is silently evolving into a lower carbon emission countries.
The problem of climate change is created by the US and the west. Lets get commitments from the culprits rather than India and China. They had Kyoto protocol for decade and all that west did was talk and talk. Never implemented any of its commitments. Lets see action from the west. After we see tangible reduction from the west in the next 2 decades we should talk to India and China.
Till then lets not divert the issue of Climate change from the west.
Andrew,
The use of ‘per capita’ in emissions is a completely bogus argument. There is only one atmosphere, and whatever is put into it adds to it, whether emitted by one person or a million people.
Consider this thought experiment: I am the sole resident of my mythical country. Population = 1. If I put out the average of, say, EU emissions, then China and India can claim they are emitting less on a ‘per capita’ basis.
Please join me in shoving this ‘per capita’ argument up their dishonest butts. Otherwise you, too, are misrepresenting the situation.
The above example was intended to show the per capita argument’s fallacy. In reality, CO2 is entirely beneficial. More CO2 is better. Much more CO2 is much better.
I hope this helps you see the light.
Andrew said:
The problem of climate change is created by the US and the west. Lets get commitments from the culprits rather than India and China.
Climate change isn’t created by anyone, Andrew. The “culprit” is primarily changes in the oceans and the sun. C02 is nothing but a bit player.
Furthermore, climate change, particularly warming isn’t nearly the problem it’s made out to be by the MSM, by politicians, and those with vested interests in keeping alarmism alive for as long as they can. Many of the “problems” associated with climate change have little to do with climate, and more to do with stupidity and ignorance.
Climate change can be a challenge, certainly, in that we have to figure out how best to adapt to it, which we’ve always managed to do. A cooling climate, which appears to be happening now will, by far, be much more challenging to humanity than the moderately warming one we had last century.
Bruce Cobb (10:23:26) :
Climate change isn’t created by anyone, Andrew.
However, you will agree that there were some “climate models” which, beginning back in the 80´s some invented to scare people in order to achieve some unknown goals for them, and when they realized that “global warming” was simply not going to happen, they change its label to “climate change”…so there are some “authors” out there of this scam. Don´t you think so?
he problem of climate change is created by the US and the west. Lets get commitments from the culprits rather than India and China.
Of course. By 2020 China’s CO2 output will be double the USA’s. If the USA reduced its output to zero by 2020 it would hardly make a difference at the rate China and India are growing.
Lets see action from the west.
Europe first. Just like WW2 only better.
JustPassing (07:40:44) : Really funny!
Hats off to the people of India.
Keep telling the truth.
Bruce Cobb (10:23:26) :
‘ “global warming” was simply not going to happen, they change its label to “climate change”…’
First, there was “CO2 induced global warming” until “They” found out that the rise in CO2 came after rise in “Temperature”.
The “Spin Misters” droped “CO2 induced” part.
“Global Warming” became “Climate Change” when “They” found out that “Monthly Adverage Temperatures” were going down,
which was comfirmed by ARGO.
The current Australian Govt under K Rudd is certainly patronising towards the Indian people.
K Rudd tore up an agreement for India to access Australian uranium which India wanted so it could build more nuclear power plants rather than coal powered power stations.
So now K Rudd will yell at India for building more coal powered stations.
With the way K Rudd is annoying our neighbours in Asia we will be back to the 1970’s with our Asian neighbours.
“Andrew (08:50:17) :
India is one of the very few countries that has the lowest per capita CO2 emissions. About 8 to 10 times lower than USA. Still it is silently evolving into a lower carbon emission countries.
The problem of climate change is created by the US and the west. Lets get commitments from the culprits rather than India and China. They had Kyoto protocol for decade and all that west did was talk and talk. Never implemented any of its commitments. Lets see action from the west. After we see tangible reduction from the west in the next 2 decades we should talk to India and China.
Till then lets not divert the issue of Climate change from the west.”
Andrew, this is bogus. The problem is “emissions” are very easy to calculate in Western countries. In India, China and in particular Africa for instance, the calculation is an estimate (An estimate calculated in the West, by the IPCC), and let me assure you, it’s bigger than you have been lead to believe.
But mate, climate change “created” by the US and the west?? Seriously, you need to get out and read a little.
“Allan (01:29:28) :
The current Australian Govt under K Rudd is certainly patronising towards the Indian people.
K Rudd tore up an agreement for India to access Australian uranium which India wanted so it could build more nuclear power plants rather than coal powered power stations.
So now K Rudd will yell at India for building more coal powered stations.
With the way K Rudd is annoying our neighbours in Asia we will be back to the 1970’s with our Asian neighbours.”
Peter “I *am* an environmentalist, honest guv!” Garret (The musician) has just authorised a new uranium mine for South Australia (4th I think) because he *considered* all of the available *science* on the subject.
Well, Mr Garret, open-cast mining is pretty devastating to the environment didn’t you know? Dr Hansen is opposed to “removing mountain tops”, but digging a big hole is ok with you? I’d bet AU$100 you’ve not even been there, just seen the “glossies”, and just ticked the box.
Mr Garret, you could not even be bothered to vote yourself, given voting (Or registering to vote) is compulsory in Australia. Clearly there are some very gullible people in Australia (Or maybe they’re on dope, eh Peter?).
Can you sleep when your bed is burning Mr Garret?
“Well, Mr Garret, open-cast mining is pretty devastating to the environment didn’t you know?”
Wonder how open-cast uranium mines compare to open cast coal for energy per cubic mile of hole??