Daryl Hannah, scientist arrested at W.Va. mine protest
SUNDIAL, W.Va. (AP) — More than two dozen people — including actress Daryl Hannah and NASA climate scientist James Hansen — were arrested Tuesday in the latest protest in a growing civil disobedience campaign against mountaintop removal in Southern West Virginia.
…
State Police said about 30 people were charged Tuesday afternoon after they blocked State Route 3 near a Massey Energy subsidiary’s coal processing plant in Raleigh County.
Full AP story here
In a statement distributed by the Rainforest Action Network, whose executive director was also arrested, Dr. Hansen said:
I am not a politician; I am a scientist and a citizen. Politicians may have to advocate for halfway measures if they choose. But it is our responsibility to make sure our representatives feel the full force of citizens who speak for what is right, not what is politically expedient. Mountaintop removal, providing only a small fraction of our energy, should be abolished.
No Jimbo, you are an activist and advocate for a cause.
Note to NASA: Now can you fire this guy?
Meanwhile, back at the RealClimate ranch today, the sound of crickets…
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The global warming religion has a new martyr.
That is what he was looking for.
When will Hansen have the courage to openly debate AGW?
AlexB (14:53:59) :
Knowing he can’t win a debate on AGW alarmism Jim Hansen is switching his efforts to mountain top removal. He will then debate this and prove by proxy his AGW concerns. It’s a common alarmist tactic. I’ve had people try to prove AGW concerns to me by proxy with anything from evolution to the theory of gravity. I kid you not… the theory of gravity.
I call it “Conflation of Issues”. It is a sure sign of confusion and guarantees several things.
[1] The issues are poorly identified.
[2] The root causes of the Issues are not identified, (may be hidden, or wrongly ascribed).
[3] Due to [1] and [2], solution design is faulty.
[4] Solution implementation is ineffective in addressing the Issues.
Having looked at google earth images of the Appalacians in that area, I can quite understand protest groups.
Looking at the placement of the sludge lake above the school I wouls suggest that Aberfan in Wales be remembered before it is too late
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aberfan
AEGeneral (16:05:27) :
Sorry, but I have no emotional attachment to rocks.
I am saddened by you lack of concern for the environment.
“Only when the last tree has died and the last river been poisoned and the last fish been caught will we realise we cannot eat money”
Listen, Mr. Jim Lysenko Hansen, the mountain will erode anyway; so what are you protesting?
Let’s face it, you don’t give a toss about mountain tops; you are opposed to humans having energy.
Przemysław Pawełczyk (16:14:02) :
Yep, it’s up to you what we read. But reading on WUWT blog about Mr Hansen is not what I expect the most.
Sorry about just quoting a very small part of your reply but, as it’s the only part of your comment that I feel uncomfortable with, that’s what I’ve highlighted.
We’re at a very important part of the debate and, most relevantly, at a crossroads where science has left the chamber thus leaving the argument to be tossed around by the politicians.
When Mickey Langan, in an adjacent thread, posed a question to a Democrat Senator – Evan Bayh, this chilling sentence emerged as a final, dismissive canon of faith that condescendingly sought to demolish any dissent.
“unequivocal and complete consensus that global warming is real and is caused by humans”
Przemysław, we have a problem. These guys fight dirty, their opinions are infinitely defensible against logic, empirical observations and appeals to reason. Hubristic certainties and self-aggrandizement- given the stakes involved- trump honesty.
A year ago, this site lived in another country – metaphorically. Times have changed, the mighty have decreed what will be. If we fight fire with a light that has no heat, we lose. Yes, we lose with honor intact. No Przemysław, we fight to win – afterwards we’ll make sure that History records it as an honorable victory. The winner writes History!
I’m not a big fan of mountain-top mining either, but some of the protest comments seem a little over the top. I grew up in West Virginia in an area that appears similar to Sundial. I think the easiest thing for the coal company to do is build a new school. It would be a relatively small investment (compared to coal profits) and the community would be happy.
What many people like Hansen and Darryl don’t understand is there are not many opportunities for decent paying jobs in that part of the US. Shut down the mining operation and a lot of people will slip into complete poverty. I’m proud that the miners stood up for their right to work instead of rolling over and playing dead for media celebrities.
I’m sure that sludge pond was carefully engineered and approved only after much review. Yes, coal is washed before it’s shipped to remove dirt and coal fines. The nasty stuff in coal is locked into the coal and not really a big concern. The power companies have to deal with the nasty stuff when the coal is burned. Without research, I suspect the sludge pond (really a settling pond) was sized to hold all the sludge from what will be mined and washed. Solids settle to the bottom and the water on top evaporates. Eventually, when the coal is exhausted, you’ll end up with a less deep valley than existed before and a hill that is somewhat shorter.
I can assure you that this mountain-top mining will be linked to the burning of coal. Coal is so nasty that it messes up both our land and air environment. Forget that it supplies a large percentage of our electric supply and keeps thousands of people employed. The poor souls who live and work in West “by God” Virginia are not important, right?
For the record I work for a company that has been pushing coal gasification forward. Gasification is the cleanest way to use coal for a multitude of products from electricity to plastics to fertilizers. The threat of harsh CO2 regulation has stymied the use of gasification in the US. We can capture CO2 at a reasonable cost but don’t know what to do with it afterwards. Neither does our government or anyone else. I know people involved in solar, wind, and ethanol power and they all admit (off the record) that it is not even close to a solution. Short term carbon fuels and long term nuclear is what will sustain our standard of existence. To believe otherwise is a fool’s game.
I have researched both sides of this CO2/global-warming and concluded that it is less than junk science. Our money grabbing scientists and politicians seem intent on destroying the greatest economies that have ever existed. I’m glad I’m old so I don’t have to watch the entire world slip into third world status. My advice to the young: Learn how to farm, hunt, and preserve your food for later consumption.
Jesse
Author: Siam Nights, Cold Rain, Tears For The Thai Girl, Blame It On Bangkok
Edit this as you deem necessary.
Y’know, Mike Griffin refused to drink the global warming kool-aid and he was shown the door.
Hansen embarassed NASA by being a petty criminal and I predict a long and lofty carreer for him with the space agency.
I turn my attention away from gov’t run space programs and to the private space sector, which is showing early signs of greatness.
well, B.S. like this has inevitably lead here…
Climate Bill Set for Vote In the House on Friday
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124579482359843937.html
i urge you to write your representative and all those in your area and voice your concerns over such a nonsensical intrusion into liberty.
I don’t get the big fuss. Hansen was arrested for civil disobedience, a tried and true, non-violent method of protest. It is illegal, sure, but the level of illegality is low and it has a long and respected place in history. Try to remember that his cause is suspect, not his right to express it. Despite his own reprehensible attitude toward skepticism, he has the right in the US to assemble and protest. He is simply using his dubious celebrity, along with Darryl Hannah, to promote his cause.
Could you imagine a US which prohibited skepticism? Or the right to demonstrate? Personally, I don’t like his advocacy or strident anti-skeptic rhetoric, but he has the same rights as every other private citizen.
As for firing him… why would NASA do that? Does employment preclude activism? That would be a very dangerous position for a gov’t agency to take in that it would seem to tread on several Constitutional rights like speech, assembly and religion (in this case AGW), especially since there are no apparent security issues involved. If he were convicted of a serious charge, then maybe NASA should dump him. But civil disobedience? No way.
Our President said this today. Yesterday they praised him for bringing back science.
“At a time of great fiscal challenges, this legislation is paid for by the polluters who currently emit the dangerous carbon emissions that contaminate the water we drink and pollute the air we breathe,” he said.
I am waiting to see how the CO2 in my beverages gets called pollution. Dangerous at that.
Mr Science question. If carbon is both black and dirty, what color is CO2?
Jim Hansen sure is a lightning rod for some folks.
I hope we will realize first that trees eat CO2 and fish eat phytoplankton that has eaten CO2 dissolved in water.
That charcoal was atmospheric CO2 that was fixated by plants back in the carboniferous period and now we are burning it, completing the CO2 cycle.
bill (15:39:08); (17:00:59),
Going back over 50 years, to 1966, to try and find something you think we should be upset about shows a little bit of desperation. The fact is that the U.S. environment has been cleaned up in the past five decades. The EPA didn’t even exist before 1970.
When coal is mined out, the land is now required to be restored. No doubt your own back yard is a lot less “natural” and “pristine” than a mountain that has been mined of its coal and remediated to the satisfaction of the EPA.
It’s also interesting that, as always, China, India, Russia, Brazil, etc., get a free pass. They pollute with impunity, while the U.S. has the world’s strongest environmental protection. Why do you attack this country, and always turn a blind eye toward those others? It appears that it is you who has little real concern for the planet, not the rest of us.
Another side of the argument, which you did not mention when posting your map of coal permits issued, is the fact that people expect the lights and heat to go on when they flip the switch.
That’s the other side of the debate. Those coal permits allow you to live a life of comfort and convenience. Try living without heat or electricity for a day — heck, for even one hour — then come back and tell us again what’s so evil about your permit map.
Finally, who are you to tell workers in West Virginia that they must give up their jobs to make you happy? I’ll bet you’ve never even been to West Virginia.
I don’t think you would appreciate it if someone came to your town and told you to give up your job simply because they didn’t think you should be doing it.
Boy, Jim Hansen has really let himself go.
Sorry, this maybe a double post(please remove first post),
A rational scientific community minded person knows that strip mining will environmentally endanger habitat and life around the mining site, this is a given. This fight has nothing to do with us.
Of course this is the REAL world and just like beavers cut down trees to make dams, you can’t outlaw beavers because you disagree with cutting the trees down and damming up rivers.
We can draft up plans to reduce impact and improve stewardship to return the areas back to nature. YES, we can work on these things.
Though at the end of the day, be it above ground or below, it’s still needed. Both ways there’s a possibility of contaminating streams and aquifer, but the risk from loss of life in dangerous underground mining is greatly reduced with open pit or MTR. A little unsightliness is to be expected with open mining and oil extraction, they are “messy by nature” in more ways then one and should be cleaning up after decommissioning.
If these folks were pushing for better control and environmental responsibility Id agree, but this is political agenda using useful idiots to shut down mines because they don’t like the look or hold a apocalyptic view about extraction and the use of natures fossil fuels.
Lance (15:08:53) :
“appears there is another Lance out there submitting comments..that don’t happen often.”
Yeah, I was taken a back a few month ago when I saw my name(your post)?! At first I thought maybe I had suddenly started making smart posts in a black out state, I wish, but no luck there! LOL!
Lots just hope I don’t post and make an ass out of myself(if I haven’t already!:p) and you get blamed.
Hey wait, that might work to my advantage?
Never mind.
J/k! 🙂
RoyFOMR, Jim HAnsen has nothing to do with Jim HEnsen (of Muppet Fame). Sorry if you were joking, but I wanted to make sure no one actually thought the same wonderful person who brought the muppets to life has anything to do with a NASA scientist (well, at least someone who claims to be one, I should say).
Especially since Hensen has been dead for almost 20 years now, RIP.
Of all the things a professional employee of the US govt. could do to express opinion and gather political support where it counts, this has to be the least sophisticated.
Getting yourself arrested, how thoughtless indeed.
I posted this at Lucia’s, as well.
I am not a fan of MTR either, but…much of the mining in the world is open pit mining, which is really the same as MTR, only INTO the ground.
I am not sure of Appalachian environment laws, but I would be very surprised if the law did NOT require the company to put the land back into an “equivalent use” state.
Most US/Canada environmental laws are more or less in sync by treaty; both environmental and economic treaties.
In Alberta, all sites; gravel pits, mines, temporary roads, logging sites AND oil sands; need to be returned to “equivalent use” state.
Its not quick, but trees don’t grow overnight. Average remediation time is estimated at 20-50 years.
Companies are required to post an environmental bond, to cover the cost of remediation. If the company goes bust, the bond is used to pay for the work.
All companies in Canada, also pay into an industry mandated “orphan fund”, to pay the cost of remediation if the original company, and its bond, are unable to cover the costs. Most of this “orphan fund” money is currently used to repair damage from pre-legislation work. Some wells in Turner Valley are from the 20s and 30s, and the company that did the original damage is long gone.
The cost of remediation in the Oil Sands is not that high, at about 20,000 CAD/acre. Assuming 10,000 bbls oil/acre, it works out to about $2 per bbl of oil recovered. This is less than 3% of current selling price.
I’m no fan of Hansen and don’t believe the evidence supports AGW, but I’ve seen mountain top removal mines and it’s a nasty business we should try to avoid.
[snip-I believe this analogy should be avoided ~ charles the moderator]
I think we should rethink the campaign to have Mr. Hansen removed from office with this bit of history in mind. I suggest that leaving him exactly where he is will make the task of turning public sentiment around on AGW easier to accomplish than having him removed from his public position would. Even if add the population of true AGW believers together with all who are dedicated to a more skeptical point of view, you still have a very small minority within the general population, most of whom have neither the interest or intellectual skills to evaluate the scientific arguments on the matter and tend to unquestioningly accept the arguments from authority that are the warmists stock and trade. If Mr. Hansen’s bizarre and buffoonish statements and actions continue to escalate, it will become increasingly obvious to everyone that the “authorities” behind all those claims of “settled science” are not exactly what they have been claimed to be. In fact, I suspect, if we don’t take the bait and scream for his removal it won’t be long before a, perhaps somewhat subtler, movement arises from the other side to get him out.
jules (15:33:29) :
It looks to be an abuse of his title at NASA. He would be a nobody if not for his NASA position.
Who would care about James Hansen, climate modeller?
But with ‘NASA scientist’ attached to the name James Hansen he can go anywhere in the world and people think he’s someone important and that NASA is involved with, and believes in, global warming.
jules, do you think NASA should be associated with this type of thing? I have to ask—where is the NASA that made the earth stand still to watch men land on the moon?!
What is happening today with this NASA employee is unbecoming to NASA–to put it nicely–and I can’t imagine it would have been tolerated for a spit second in the glory days of NASA in the 60’s!!
NASA needs to draw some lines. But I’m not going to hold my breath for that.
oakgeo (17:24:12) :
So I am certain you would feel the same if a government health and human services official was arrested protesting at an abortion clinic?
How do you suppose Mr. Hansen can serve as both an advocate and an objective scientist? Rhetorical – he cannot.
Nathan Stone (17:50:10) :
I didn’t know that NASA is now involved in coal mining practice regulation.
This is a very disturbing development, and it shows why this guy seems able to get away with stuff that gets other, better people fired. Modern coal mining is basically horrendously damaging, but with millions of dollars of PR and an expensive facade of ‘rehabilitation’ that simply does not restore the productivity of the land nor its usefulness for wild animals living in a natural habitat. So, what better plan than to get arrested for protesting that, whilst holding aloft the global warming banner? Many people are not capable of distinguishing separate issues, and there will be a lot of pro-alarmist kudos coming from this smart move.
Don’t underestimate the shysters, and don’t think that just calmly putting out the truth will necessarily be enough to defeat them.