Renewable energy – our downfall?

This essay below from Ralph Ellis was posted in comments a couple of days ago, and I decided to promote it to a full post.

For the record, let me say that I support some of the renewable energy ideas, even putting money where my mouth is, putting solar on my own home and a local school. However, neither project would have been possible without state subsidies. For renewable energy to work in our economy, it must move past the government  subsidy stage and become more efficient. It took over a hundred years t create our current energy infrastructure, anyone who believes we can completely rebuild it with the current crop of renewable energy technologies is not realistic. – Anthony

Renewable energy – our downfall? By Ralph Ellis

The government, under pressure from a disparate confederation of environmentalists and greens, have agreed to press ahead with a host of renewable energy sources, including wind, tidal and wave power. Yet, despite the vast sums of public money that will be allocated to these projects and the fundamental enormity of the decisions that have been made, there has been very little in the way of open debate on the subject. Like many aspects of today’s governmental system, the powers that be appear to have made a decision about future energy production based upon image, spin and the number of votes the policy will capture, while ignoring the basic truths and science that should be the foundation-stone of any policy. Nobody has even debated the absolutely fundamental question of whether any of these energy generation systems actually work. The media’s reaction to this steamrollered, image-based decision-making process has been muted to the point of being inaudible, and I can only assume that either very few in the media have any grasp of the calamitous implications of the government’s policy, or they are cowering behind their desks for fear of losing their jobs.

So why, then, do I consider renewable energy to be a danger to the entire nation, both economically and socially? This is, after all, ‘free energy’, and what can be the problem with a free resource? Well, as readers will probably be fully aware, no resource is free even if it appears to be so, and this is the first of the many lies about renewable energy that have been peddled by industry spokesmen and government ministers. Oil is not free, despite it just sitting in the ground; water is not free, despite it falling from the sky; nuclear power is not free, despite the raw materials being ridiculously cheap, and neither is any renewable energy resource ‘free’. In fact, the conversion process from ‘free’ renewable energy to usable grid electricity is remarkably expensive and its enormous costs are being subsidised by the consumer. In the UK, this subsidy is achieved through Renewables Obligation Certificates, the cost of which are eventually passed onto the consumer. In 2006 the cost to consumers was £600 million, and this is predicted to rise to £3 billion in 2020. 1 That is about £200 per household per annum, on top of current energy bills, for the privilege of using of ‘free’ energy.

Now one might argue that that is not very much money to demand from the public, given the advertised prospect of clean, renewable energy that will fuel our homes and our economy for the next few generations. Power at the press of a button, and not a drop of noxious emissions of any nature in sight – just an array of perfectly silent, gently rotating wind-turbines stretching towards the horizon – it is dream-world picture direct from the cover issue of an environmentalist magazine, and the answer to a politician’s prayers. In one master-stroke the environment is magically healed, and votes are captured by the million – roll on the next election.

However, it is my belief that this sublime day-dream actually holds the seeds for our economic decline and for social disorder on an unprecedented scale. Why? Because no technical and industrial society can maintain itself on unreliable and intermittent power supplies. In 2003 there were six major electrical blackouts across the world, and the American Northeast blackout of August 14th was typical of these. The outage started in Ohio, when some power lines touched some trees and took out the Eastlake power station, but the subsequent cascade failure took out 256 power stations within one hour.

The entire Northeast was down onto emergency electrical supplies, and the result was social and economic chaos. Nothing, in our integrated and automated world, works without electricity. Transport came to a grinding halt. Aircraft were grounded, trains halted and road traffic was at a standstill, due to a lack of traffic lights and fuel. Water supplies were severely disrupted, as were telecommunications, while buildings had to be evacuated due to a lack of fire detection and suppression systems. Without any available transport, many commuters were forced to sleep in offices or in Central Park, and while the summer temperatures made this an office-adventure to remember, had this been winter the results of this electrical failure could have been catastrophic.

This is what happens to a major technical civilisation when its life-blood, its electrical supply, is turned off. Chaos looms, people die, production ceases, life is put on hold. Yet this was just a once-in-a-decade event, a memorable occasion to laugh about over dinner-parties for many years to come, but just imagine what would happen to a society where this happened every week, or if the power was cut for a whole fortnight or more. Now things are getting serious. Without transport, refrigeration, computers and key workers, food production and distribution would cease. Sleeping in Central Park on a balmy summer’s night is a memorable inconvenience, whereas fifty million empty bellies is getting very serious indeed. In fact, it is a recipe for violence and civil unrest.

But what has all this doom and gloom got to do with the government’s drive for renewable energy, you might ask? Well, the entire problem with renewables – almost all renewables – is that they are dangerously intermittent power sources.

Perhaps the first renewable source we should discuss is tidal power. Unfortunately, while tidal power initially looks like a dream power source of cheap, renewable energy, it suffers from massive variability in supply. The energy that it produces is tidal, and the tides are, of course, linked to the orbit of the Moon, with there being about two tides every day. This sinusoidal tidal pattern produces four slack periods during each day when the tide is turning, either at high tide or at low tide, and during these slack periods the tidal power system will not generate any electricity at all. Unfortunately, the energy that is produced is therefore delivered at set periods of the day which are connected to the orbit of the Moon, rather than our daily lives, and so the electricity produced is in no way synchronised with the electrical demand cycle. If these slack periods coincide with the 7-am and 7-pm peak demands for electricity, as they will several times a month, then the whole generating system is next to useless.

Since the energy produced earlier in the day cannot be stored, as will be explained later, extra generating capacity will have to be brought on-line to cover the deficiency. This means that for every tidal system installed, a conventional power station will have to be either built or retained to ensure continuity of energy supply. But this power station will have to be up and running all the time, what is known in the industry as ’spinning-reserve’, as it takes up to 12 hours to bring a power station on-line from a cold start-up. Thus if we are to maintain continuity of supply, this wonderful ‘free-energy’ tidal source actually results in twice the cost and saves very little in the way of hydrocarbon fuels. So, unless we are prepared to accept rolling power cuts across the country, which would result in the same chaos as the Northeast blackout, it is unlikely that we could ever successfully integrate large tidal power systems into the National Grid.

While tidal power may be predictably intermittent, wind power is even more problematical. Recent EU directives have stipulated that some 40% of electricity should be powered from renewable resources by 2020. If this were to be predominantly produced from wind turbines, as is likely, then we would need some 30 gigawatts (gw) of wind generating capacity. To put that figure in perspective, the UK currently has about 0.5 gw of wind capacity. However, that is not the full story, for UK wind turbines are only currently delivering about 25% of installed capacity, due to wind fluctuations and maintenance issues. That means we actually need some 120 gw of installed wind generation capacity to cover just 40% of total UK electrical demand. If the turbines being constructed average 2 mw rated capacity, then we shall need some 60,000 wind turbines to be installed over the next twelve years. And where shall we erect all those? – Certainly Not In My Back Yard.

But building thousands of wind turbines still does not resolve the fundamental problem, for the real problem here is the enormous scale of wind variability. I saw a wind-power spokesman the other week on the flagship BBC Hardtalk series, who claimed that the number of days without wind power in the UK were as rare as hen’s teeth – a comment that went totally unchallenged. Well all I can say, is that the hens in the UK must look like a Tyrannosaurus Rex.

The truth of the matter is that there are numerous days without significant winds across the UK, and when those conditions occur it doesn’t matter how much installed generating capacity we have, for it all goes off-line. A report from Denmark 2 indicates that the Danish ‘wind carpet’, which is the largest array of wind turbines in Europe, generated less than 1% of installed power on 54 days during 2002. That is more than one day every week of the year without electrical power. However, if we broaden the definition of ‘without power’ slightly, the same Danish ‘wind carpet’ generated less than 10% of installed capacity for some 16 weeks during 2003. Yet Denmark has the same kind of northerly, maritime weather systems as does the UK. Thus the wind-generation industry is lying to us, once more, for a ‘wind carpet’ that generates less than 10% of installed capacity it next to useless, for the national electrical grid will never cope with such a massive reduction in power supply. In fact, wind generation is so useless, that Denmark, Europe’s largest wind generating nation by far, has never used any of its wind-generated electricity – because it is too variable. It is almost impossible to integrate wind power into a normal generating grid, and so Denmark has merely exported its variable wind supplies to Norway and Sweden. 3 These nations can cope with these electrical fluctuations because of their abundance of hydro-electric power, which can be turned on and off quite rapidly, unlike most other generating systems.

This revelation, that wind power is totally unusable, brings us onto the other great lie of renewable energy proponents – the lie that renewable power can somehow be stored to cope with power outages. The first of these miraculous energy storage facilities, that is said to come to the aid of the thousands of wind-turbines that lie motionless across the entire nation, is the pumped water storage system. However, this claim is utter nonsense, and for the following reasons:

a. Our present pumped storage systems are already fully utilized in overcoming variability in electrical DEMAND, and so they have absolutely no extra capacity for overcoming variability in SUPPLY due to the unreliable wind and tidal generation systems.

b. Pumped storage systems currently only supply a very small percentage of the grid (about 5%) for just a few hours, while wind generation systems can go off-line for days or weeks at a time, as the Danish generation report clearly demonstrates. To put this argument into figures, the Dinorwig power storage system, the largest in the UK, can provide 5% of the UK’s power generation requirements (2.9 gw) for up to 5 hours before it runs out of water. (Thus the total capacity of Dinorwig is 14.5 gwh). If the UK was entirely dependent on wind power, a wind outage lasting just two days would require 140 storage stations with the same generating capacity as Dinorwig to maintain normal power supplies (assuming average UK demand of 1,000 gwh/day). As the Danish report confirms, power outages lasting a week or more are the norm, rather than the exception, and so if the UK generated a significant proportion of our electrical capacity from wind-turbines, as the EU has argued, the lights and heating systems would be going out, the computers going down and transport systems failing all over the country.

c. Pumped storage systems are not only hugely expensive to construct, the topography of Britain ensures that very few sites are available, and so we will never be able to store significant amounts of our energy requirements. These storage systems also tend to be situated in areas of outstanding natural beauty, and so – you have guessed it – the Greens oppose the very storage system they are promoting.

The same kind of argument can be sustained for flywheel energy storage, compressed air storage, battery storage and hydrogen storage – for each and every one of these systems is highly complex, very expensive, hugely inefficient and limited in capacity. The much hyped ‘Hydrogen Economy’ is one of these technological cul-de-sacs. It should be stated from the outset that hydrogen is not an energy source, but an energy storage system – a ‘battery’. The hydrogen has to be created before it is used, and it merely stores the energy that is flowing through the normal electrical grid. Unfortunately for the proponents of this clean ‘energy system’, hydrogen powered vehicles and generators are only about 5% efficient. A huge amount of energy is wasted in the production, liquification and storage of the hydrogen, and so hydrogen will not be propelling our cars, nor will it be storing energy for when the wind stops blowing. In addition, hydrogen storage vessels are highly flammable and potentially explosive, and I for one would rather have a nuclear power station on my doorstep than a hydrogen facility. However, the final unsayable truth about hydrogen powered vehicles (and electric vehicles) is that we would have to double or treble the number of power stations to cope with this electrical demand. The fact that many cars would recharge overnight would be useful in evening out electrical demand, but the number of power stations in the UK would at least double. Now what would the Greens have to say about that?

In short, it would appear that some of the proponents of these storage systems simply have no concept of the huge amounts of energy that a nation like Britain uses within a normal week. There is no energy system available that can remotely be expected to replace renewable energy resources, while they lie dormant for weeks on end. These and other delusions that are being being peddled by renewables proponents are downright dangerous, as they give ignorant ministers in government the impression that we can maintain this nation on renewable energy supplies. But nothing could be further from the truth, and the 2003 blackouts demonstrate the seriousness of the consequences if we do run out of electrical power.

Nuclear

But if the large-scale use of renewable energy systems is utterly impractical, there has to be a solution to our energy supply problems; because even in the short term our dependance on foreign oil and gas places us at the mercy of oil and gas owning despots, who will seek to gain every leverage possible over us. Look at the current situation in the Middle East and Russia and multiply that by ten, and you have some idea of our future political situation if we become solely dependent on foreign energy supplies.

In addition to this – for every year we delay in getting reliable and internally sourced energy supplies, millions of tonnes of a valuable mineral resources are literally going up in smoke. Nearly everything we need in our modern world needs oil as a raw material to make it – no oil supplies not only means no energy, but also no raw materials too. When the last barrel of oil comes out of the ground – and if alternate energy provisions are not already in place – human civilization as we know it will cease to exist. That is neither an exaggeration nor a joke, for absolutely nothing in our modern world will work without adequate energy supplies and petrochemical raw materials to make the things we so often take for granted.

What ever you may think about the technology, the ONLY reliable answer to our energy supply and global warming problems for the foreseeable future is going to be nuclear power (either fission or fusion). Ok, so nuclear power has got a bad name through Chernobyl and a few other incidents, but the Chernobyl plant in particular should never have been allowed in the first place. The RBMK design was (and still is) a rudimentary graphite moderated steam cooled plant with no containment vessel – indeed, it was no better that the original ‘graphite pile’ in the Manhattan Project (circa 1943). Remember that graphite and steam are an explosive combination if they get hot enough, and that’s exactly what happened at Chernobyl (this was NOT a ‘nuclear’ explosion). This arrangement should never have been allowed at the design stage, which is why the British AGRs (Advanced Gas Reactors) used an inert gas coolant. In addition, both the AGR and the the USAs PWRs (Pressurized Water Reactors) are naturally fission-stable, and their very nature will resist and counter a runaway thermic event like that which occurred at Chernobyl.

While the early designs of nuclear power stations have highlighted the problems that poor design or construction can pose, our design and technological capability has moved on in great strides. The Russian RBMKs are the equivalent of a model T Ford, the British AGRs represent Morris Minor technology from the ’60s, but we are now capable of producing Bugattis and Ferraris – which provide a quantum leap in terms of safety and efficiency. The point is that there are methods of reducing nuclear risks if we put our minds to it, and the latest design from Westinghouse – the AP1000 – will be able to deliver ten times the efficiency of the reactors in current use. (Which makes it odd that the UK government have just sold Westinghouse to Toshiba of Japan, just as orders for new power stations are about to be signed.)

Therefore, we could supply Britain’s entire current and future energy requirements with nuclear power, while only using the same amount of nuclear material that is in circulation today (and which produces just 20% of our needs). Remember also that nuclear power is non-polluting in terms of greenhouse gasses, acid rain and other noxious emissions, and thus all of the reductions that we aspire to make in these pollutants could be achieved in a stroke if we turned to nuclear power.

And when it comes to nuclear safety issues, let us not forget that thousands of people in ships and submarines live in close proximity to nuclear plants with no ill-effects. Also remember that while nuclear power has acquired a bad name, courtesy of some sections of the media, far more ecological damage has been done and many more people have died though oil and coal extraction, over the past decades, than in nuclear power incidents. Remember Piper Alpha, Aberfan, Torry Canyon, Exxon Valdes, etc: etc:? The list is almost endless, especially if one includes all the coal-pit disasters in Russia and China, from which much of our energy, in terms of finished products, is now sourced. If a nuclear power station had killed a whole school full of children the environmentalists would never let us forget it, but because it was the result of the coal industry they let the memory fade. If 6,000 workers were killed every year in the nuclear industry Greenpeace would go ballistic, but because these are coal mining deaths in China they are ignored. Why do some people exhibit these double standards? What is it about technical progress that they so despise? In some respects, some of these anti-nuclear demonstrators appear to be portraying themselves as the world’s very own technological Taliban, and in this guise they must be vigorously opposed.

However, it should be borne in mind that fission power is only a temporary stop-gap that will maintain our economy and civilisation over the next century until something better comes along. Nuclear fusion may well be that brighter future, but for all the reasons already given we need a solution now, not in 30 year’s time. Nuclear fission will provide a stop-gap for that vital century, but fission power on its own is a non-renewable energy resource. The way forward has to be fast-breeder fission, where the nuclear core creates its own fuel supply, a technique that has already been demonstrated and perfected. This energy source would provide the world with 1,000 years of energy, a large enough stop-gap to allow all kinds of new exotic energy sources to be discovered and exploited.

We have about 30 or so years before the shortage of oil becomes acute and our economies and societies begin to falter, and that is not very much time in which to alter our entire energy production industry. It is like relying on the Victorians to plan ahead and ensure that we still had a viable civilisation in the 1930s. And while the Victorians were both successful and resourceful, history demonstrates that new sources of raw materials were never actively planned until the old sources were in desperately short supply or worked-out completely. However, the introduction of a new, nationwide power generating system is an extremely long-term investment, and if we are to make this change without a dramatic interruption to our energy supplies (and our society) we need foresight, vision and a quick decision. What we need is a tough, educated, talented, rational leader to take a difficult but responsible decision to dramatically increase our nuclear energy production capability. However, what we have in the UK is Gordon Brown!

Ralph Ellis

June 2004

1. David Derbyshire, Daily Mail 5th Feb 2008.

2 & 3 Hugh Sharman, Why wind power works in Denmark.

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May 31, 2009 10:27 am

@Rod Adams
You make many (wrong) assumptions and statements about me, my motivations, my lifestyle, and my livelihood. One can only wonder why such words would flow forth, what deep wellsprings of envy or hate exist?
You are apparently envious that I spent some time on boats, and you (apparently) jump to the conclusion that I live the life of the idle rich, a la Gatsby, yachting about to while away the endless hours. Hah! If you only knew.
The fact is that my colleagues and I began serious research and development of alternative energy (back then we did not use the term “renewable”) in 1975, and our motivation was a desire to prevent escalating fossil fuel prices from raising electricity and transportation prices to unbearable levels. You may not have heard about it, but there was a serious energy shock in 1973, and again in 1979. You could look it up, though. You might also read my blogs for the subject “death spiral,” to get some perspective on my motivation.
Your linking the building of nuclear power plants, and the subsequent decline in fossil fuel prices is, well, laughable. Are you suggesting that OPEC was so scared of nuclear power plants (in an industry that does not burn oil, so does not compete with OPEC’s product), that OPEC dropped their prices? Nuclear power scares the crap out of a lot of people for very good reasons, but I have never heard that one before! LOL!!!!!
You say that you believe my advocacy is because I do not like the competition from nuclear. Zero points for that one, as you missed the mark entirely. You might have better success if you find a coal-industry supporter at whom you can fire those remarks. Coal is not and has not ever been an industry I worked in or for. In case you missed it, I worked in refineries and petrochemical plants. Not much coal burned in those.
As I wrote on the nuclear fusion thread a few days ago, I am all for it. You bring me a nuclear power plant that is not by legal definition ultrahazardous, does not produce nuclear bomb material, does not create toxic radioactive wastes that endure for centuries, and produces power more cheaply than natural gas, and I’ll support it. That’s four criterion, and so far, nuclear fission is batting 0 for 4.
You, on the other hand, want to see a world with literally thousands upon thousands of tiny nuclear fission power plants, near schools, playgrounds, shopping malls, or in neighborhoods where their radioactive leaks, malfunctions due to sabotage, and runaway reactions can and will poison millions of people.
What a nightmare.

May 31, 2009 2:25 pm

>>Yet when I mentioned thr japanese idea for getting
>>uranium from seawater using a polymer you said no problem!
Never said any such thing!
.

May 31, 2009 2:28 pm

>>While I agree with much of your point vis the UK; your
>>statement is just not true for the rest of the planet.
If you think that the UK will be safe and secure while Colonel Gadafi supplies us with Solar power, you should think again.
.

May 31, 2009 2:48 pm

Regards nuclear reactor cores, if Chernobyl had had one of these, there would not have been this Great Green Outcry against nuclear power.

.

slowtofollow
May 31, 2009 4:27 pm

Couple of quick follow ups:
In the UK the Non Fossil Fuel Obligation early rounds did pay a premium to nuclear. I think this went with the change to the Renewables Obligation mechanism.
Re: CCGT and NOx emissions – there was a comment above on this suggesting it is a big problem? I think with modern plant this is not the case but would welcome some figures.
and Ralph – good clip! thanks.

Jim Hopf
May 31, 2009 4:29 pm

Suffice it to say that I don’t share Roger’s optimism about long-term future natural gas prices.
I remember when the EIA, with a straight face, predicted long-term (average) gas prices of $3-$4/MBTU over the next few decades. Since then, we saw prices of $10 to $15 under normal economic conditions. And now, we have a (temporary) glut of gas due to new shale deposits going into production, which is occurring simultaneously with a worldwide economic depression. And it has become clear that gas and oil prices are very sensitive to demand swings. So, with these two huge (temporary) factors that act strongly to reduce gas prices occurring simultaneously, do you know how low the price of gas is? About $3-$4, exactly what the EIA said it would AVERAGE, over normal, long-term conditions.
The moment the world’s economy recovers, the price of gas will be over $10/MBTU. You can count on it. And at this gas price, nuclear can easily compete for baseload generation.
This will certainly be true if they pass climate change legislation that has hard, legally-binding, and declining caps on CO2 production. The immediate effect this will have will be a shift from coal to gas. Any notion that gas could take over a large fraction of coal’s generation w/o the price of gas shooting into the stratosphere is simply fatuous.
The reality is that some fraction (perhaps most) of the replaced coal capacity will have to be taken up by nuclear or renewables; enough to prevent dramatic escalation of gas costs. In other words, the use of gas (to replace coal) will rise until the price of gas reaches a point where nuclear or renewables are competitive. How much will be renewable and how much will be nuclear? It depends. If it’s decided by govt. fiat, it will be mostly renewables. If it’s left to the market, it will be mostly nuclear.

Jim Hopf
May 31, 2009 4:34 pm

It’s interesting how Roger talks about cost comparisons between nuclear and gas, and then goes on to talk about things like off-shore wind, but when doing so, suddenly stops talking about cost comparisons. The fact is that, with the possible exception of onshore wind, all renewable sources are much more expensive then nuclear. And on-shore wind’s cometitive costs do not include things like required backup (fossil) power and grid upgrades.
Renewables are also much more subsidized then nuclear, as I pointed out earlier. And then of course, there are the absolute mandates (i.e., infinite subsidies), in case the exising large subsidies are not enough.
As for fossil fuels (including gas), yes we know that they are cheaper than nuclear as long as they retain the right to pollute the atmosphere for free, and their (huge) external costs are not counted. As I say above, gas plants may be cheaper than nuclear now, but in the future, after economic recovery, they won’t be. If and when we have hard CO2 limits, they definitely won’t be. And yes, I’m willing to put that to a fair economic test. Just cap CO2, forget subsidies, and see what happens.

Jim Hopf
May 31, 2009 5:16 pm

Finally, concerning some things Roger says about safety,
I have to laugh when I hear about nuclear being (“legally”) ultra-hazardous (when gas, or oil, is not, apparently). We have 40+ years of operating history in the Western world which decicively shows that nuclear’s risks are negligible, and orders of magnitude smaller than those associated with any fossil fuel, coal, oil, or gas. While fossil plants kill 25,000 Americans every single year, US nuclear power plants have never killed a member of the public, or had any measurable impact on public health, over their entire history.
I care about the actual facts (like these) and couldn’t care less about “legal” definitions. These laws were almost certainly put into place for the reasons Rod alludes to in his posts. Powerful (fossil) interests have no interest in having a level playing field between nuclear and fossil (i.e., equal risk and/or environmental impact allowed for each) because they know that they would lose decicively.
As for what the facts actually show, even renewables (e.g., wind) are less safe than nuclear. The wind industry has a very poor industrial (OSHA) safety record, and things like solar roofs fall under the home construction industry, one of the most dangerous industries in America, OSHA statistics say. BTW, the nuclear industry has one of the lowest accident rates, with OSHA statistics saying that it is as safe as office work. But hey, these risks take the form of a slow, steady stream of “ordinary” (read: acceptable) deaths from things like falls, so nobody will ever care (unlike with anything nuclear). The relative safety of the nuclear and wind insutries is explored in this article:
http://www.thenewamerican.com/tech-mainmenu-30/energy/788
It is equally clear that nuclear is much safer, and environmentally sound, than natural gas. Gas emits CO2, nuclear doesn’t. Gas pollutes the air (pollution which cases a steady stream of annual deaths), nuclear doesn’t. And finally, with respect to accidents, people are killed by various explosions, conflagrations, and poisonings (carbon monoxide) related to the use of gas that we don’t even hear about it anymore, because it’s not even considered news. No member of the public has ever been killed by nuclear-related accident. But hey, nuclear is “legally” hazardous.
And finally, with respect to facility accidents or attacks, both oil refineries and LNG terminals, as well as chemical plants, are infinitely more dangerous than nuclear power plants. Not only are accidents, or successful attacks, much more likely to happen, but the maximum consequences of those attacks are also far larger. Both the NRC and EPRI (the Electric Power Research Institute) agree that flying a large commercial jet into any of our existing nuclear plants has a negligible chance of causing a significant release. Such an attack on an oil refinery or LNG terminal would have a much greater chance of succeeding, and the results would actually be far more severe. But hey, they’re held to a far different (lower) set of standards. They have very good lawyers, and politicians.
One final point, the oil and gas industry is (quitely) behind a lot of the renewables push, espeically wind. This is because only oil and gas power plants can rapidly change their output levels, in reponse to the erratic ups and downs in wind generation. Coal and nuclear plants have a much harder time doing this. Also, because wind generates more power at night (when we least need it), it cuts into the baseload demand that nukes and coal would otherwise serve, and increases peak demand, that is generally served by gas plants. The reason they like wind is that it acts to supress coal and nuclear development, and increase the share of generation that has to be provided by gas (or oil). This provides more assurance of demand (and high price) for their product. We’ll be dependent on the Middle East for our electricity, as well as our transportation, but what they hey!

May 31, 2009 5:23 pm

– I was not at all implying that you live the life of the idle rich. I am sure that you work very hard for your income.
However, I know a bit more than you think about the energy shortages of the 1970s.
For example, I know that as late as 1978 oil held a 17% of the US electricity market with most of the oil burning power plants being located in places like my home state of Florida and in the Northeast. Not surprisingly, those were some of the places where nuclear power plants were purchase and completed and helped push oil out of the electricity market. There were other places around the world where oil was a significant contributor to electrical power generation – the UK, France, Japan, Taiwan, Korea, the Netherlands. As nuclear generation grew faster than the overall market, oil lost market share. Though many fission opponents like to claim that nuclear does not compete against oil, that is only in electrical power markets because that battle is already over and oil lost.
The loss of customers in the electrical power market was quite important for refiners since the oil that got burned in power plants was called residual oil; it was a high carbon portion of the input crude and not suitable for use in internal combustion engines outside of very large (10s of MW) diesels. To overcome the effect of having a glut of this particular product refineries worked hard on cracking technology that adds H2 to make lighter hydrocarbons out of the heavy residuals. I am sure that you were involved in the technical end of that process, though you might have been unaware of some of the market pressures that were pressing it forward.
The competition from nuclear is also quite important to natural gas marketers – every time a nuclear plant has an unscheduled shutdown gas gets burned to replace the lost power output. One of the reasons that LNG prices have been elevated for the past 20 months is that a very large complex in Japan – Kashiwazaki-Kariwa with 7 reactors totaling 8.2 GW of capacity- has been shut down since July 2007 to conduct inspections following a major earthquake. The effect on the earnings for the plant owner are well documented, but every time there is an increased cost for someone, there is a corresponding increase in revenue for someone else. In this case, the gas/oil industry was the beneficiary.
There is another major place where nuclear fission technology has affected the market share for refined oil and that is in naval vessels. During the Vietnam era, the US Navy was the oil industry’s single largest customer. Aircraft carriers are prodigious consumers of oil products, but our ten nuclear aircraft carriers use far less than the oil burners that we had back then. Submarines are a much smaller effect, but there are several navies (US, UK, France, China, Russia) that have submarine fleets that consume uranium instead of diesel fuel.
According to Shell’s annual energy outlook, nuclear plants around the world produce about 12 million barrels of oil per day equivalent (not including any military power reactors). That is 30-40% more than Saudi Arabia.
Can you honestly tell me that the introduction of a brand new energy source larger than the world’s largest oil producer had no effect on the price of oil, gas and coal? Can you honestly tell me that the fossil fuel industry, which understands that there is and always has been a certain amount of fungibility among heat producing fuel sources, was not concerned enough about the growth of that competitor to work hard to slow it down?
Please.
Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights
Host and producer, The Atomic Show Podcast

Zachary Moitoza
May 31, 2009 6:22 pm

The author is right about wind. For those interested in outside reading, go to energy tribune. They offer excellent analysis. Consider this article:
http://www.energytribune.com/articles.cfm?aid=340&idli=3
Hydro, geothermal, and biomass are too small to matter and geographically restricted. Wind, solar, wave & tidal are too intermittent and diffuse. Without some super battery, they will never take off. Consider this: one gallon of gasoline contains as much energy as one ton of lead-acid storage batteries.
As for nuclear, I disagree that it is a “stop-gap.” It will last longer than fusion, since fusion requires tritium, which must be bred from precious lithium resources.
At $10 a pound uranium is finite, but at $200 a pound it can be extracted from seawater using a fabric adsorbent. Generation IV reactors are 100 times as fuel efficient like the fast breeders the author mentions, but without the proliferations threat.

May 31, 2009 6:59 pm

@Rod Adams. (17:23:11) :
Nice analysis, even if misguided and very wrong. Once again, you seek conspiracies where none exist. Let me give you a clue word, “COAL.”
It wasn’t the oil industry that was concerned about nuclear power, and the reasoning you gave above had very little, if anything, to do with refineries installing heavy oil conversion processes. And, by the way, very little hydrogen was or is added to the heavy fuel oil. A nuclear advocate’s mistake, that, so it is to be excused.
Only one of many facts is that light crude oil was in short supply, but heavy crude oil was in greater supply. To simplify a complex explanation, heavy crude oils produce more heavy fuel oil than does light crude oil. Refiners saw that the excess of heavy fuel oil would depress the market for that product. Various processes were built to make gasoline and other products from the heavy fuel oil. The net effect was more gasoline and diesel fuel from a barrel of crude oil, and the demand for crude oil thus “went down” relative to what it would have been otherwise. The reduced demand kept world crude oil prices and product prices somewhat lower than they otherwise would have been.
Another of the many facts that led to refiners converting heavy fuel oil to lighter products was the push by environmentalists against “acid rain.” Burning heavy fuel oil in power plants was seen as a contributor to acid rain, but refiners concluded it was not economic to desulfurize the heavy fuel oil.
Still another factor is that heavy fuel oil was never a major product in terms of volume or revenue for refiners. So, your claim that nuclear power took away the market is ridiculous.
So no, it was not the oil industry that lost market share to nuclear power, it was the coal industry. Shell’s energy outlook, which I have not looked at for many years, may well have reported what you wrote. Shell has trouble doing their accounting, as is well-known but this is not the time to go into that. But the fuel displaced by nuclear power was not oil, it was coal. Shell knows this, but as they are an oil company, it is easier to state things in terms of oil-equivalence.
We did not have to “work hard to slow it down,” as there were, and still are, plenty of thoughtful people who appreciate the dangers of nuclear fission and properly oppose it using the laws of the land. By the way, oil refineries also have similar opposition, as does almost any industrial facility in these times. What is so special about nuclear power, that it should receive a pass? To use your word, Please.
The nuclear power industry has managed to escalate the initial capital costs to the point where it now costs around $10,000 per kW to construct, and that is not in California, and at least six years. The costs per kW keep escalating as the years go by, and one must wonder why is that? Classical economics holds that the unit cost of a technology will decline over time, as experience is gained and efficiencies are discovered. Such declining unit costs are occurring for wind and solar and bio-gas, but not for nuclear.
And, for those who believe that a fee for CO2, or a cap on carbon, will bring nuclear to the forefront of technologies, you might want to reconsider. The current buzz-phrase is cradle-to-grave, and on that basis nuclear power produces prodigious amounts of CO2 for fuel production and plant construction, and decommissioning plus waste fuel disposal.
Last, it is interesting that you noted that nuclear power plants in Japan were taken off-line after an earthquake. Can you please explain how the natural-gas-fired power plants managed to withstand the earthquake, and were ready for service upon demand?
This has been great fun, Mr. Adams. If there are any other misconceptions you want to clear up, they will have to wait for quite a while. Other things require my attention for the next few weeks.

Fuelmaker
May 31, 2009 7:37 pm

slowtofollow (16:27:46) :
NOx emissions from modern gas fired turbines are insignificant unless the command and control people use the standards to obstruct and play gotcha over recordkeeping, monitoring and testing, which they love to do. Last time I followed it, about ten years ago, new source performance standards had dropped into single digit ppm. I believe that was corrected to 15% oxygen, so for a million pounds of gas (24,000 MMBTU), NOx emissions (as NO2), NOx emissions would be less than 500 pounds, which at a rate of a $1/pound to buy NOx credits, would be about $.02/MMBTU compared to prices of $3-$10 for the gas itself. Sorry for all the English units.
For comparison sake, NOx emissions/BTU from the most efficient spark ignition or compression ignition engines is about 100 times greater.
Rod:
Would you consider writing a guest post about the hazards of modern nuclear plant designs? My understanding is that although there is a remote possibility of a total property loss at plant that has multiple failures, there is no possibility of a runaway nuclear explosion and the maximum release of radionuclides is also quite limited. I think if people understood that the risks did not include a nuclear explosion, it really might make a difference. I also think that if put in terms of dosage, which could be compared to the differences in natural background and elevation, people could be made more comfortable with the risks of a worst case release. Like you said, there are hazards from LNG storage sabotage, and I would add coal sludge pond collapses and underground fires.

Fuelmaker
May 31, 2009 8:32 pm

Roger:
That was a cheap shot against Rod about very little H2 being added to heavy oil. It is beside the point but for the benefit of other readers, H2 is primarily added to remove sulfur and other contaminants. Although I agree that refiners certainly didn’t fight very hard to continue selling expensive residual fuel to power plants that decided to repower with gas, it certainly did free up some feedstock to be upgraded.
The markets for fuels are so deep that the conspiracy theories just don’t make much sense, except when laws are written to put competitors out of business, which is my complaint about CA policy. I would hate for anyone to think that I wanted to raise the cost of oil or propane heat with carbon taxes so that I could charge more for my wood fuel alternative. And I couldn’t possibly supply very much of the resulting demand and would just disappoint my prospective customers. New England desperately needs more natural gas capacity and would greatly benefit from a few more nukes, but I guess that will take several years of $100+ oil before the political will develops to shut down the NIMBY’s and BANANA’s (build absolutely nothing anywhere near anybody)

June 1, 2009 12:24 am

and Fuelmaker – Both of you use the wrong word. It is not a conspiracy when individuals and groups that have a product to market work to put a negative face on a competitive product. It is sometimes a coordinated strategy, but usually it is simply normal business practice.
Steel makers talk about the negatives of plastic bumpers, plastic bottle makers convince people that steel cans leave a funny aftertaste, corn growers emphasize the dangers of imported oil, railroads talk about the way that individual trucks cause traffic jams, and coal guys talk bad about nuclear power.
Roger – approximately half of ExxonMobil and Chevron’s energy production comes in the form of natural gas. Gas and nuclear constantly compete for market share.
The nuclear plant shutdown that I have mentioned has been elongated by an absurd amount of caution. There was essentially no reason for continued shutdown found during the extensive investigations, but the regulatory bodies forced the investigations to occur. It is as if you were forced to do a ground up crawl through of every inch of your house before reoccupying it after a quake. The gas plants might have experienced damage and piping misalignments that have resulted in leaks or potential future failures, but no one knows because no one was forced to check.
Finally, here is a link to a company that supplies industrial H2 for oil production. Seems to me that 12.4 billion SCF per day is a rather substantial quantity, but perhaps it is not so large from your perspective as a refinery expert.
http://www.questairinc.com/applications/industrial_hydrogen/hydrogen_for_oil.htm
The company that supplies this market lists several reasons that H2 is used in oil production. Here is one of them:
“Increased consumption of low quality ‘heavy’ crude oil, which requires more hydrogen to refine.”
It has been fun. Look forward to sparring with you again sometime. I have no illusions of my ability to change your mind; what is more interesting to me is the effect that each of our arguments have on those observers who are watching and reading.
Rod Adams
Publisher, Atomic Insights
Host and producer, The Atomic Show Podcast

Geoff Sherrington
June 1, 2009 2:05 am

Out of the blue yonder ….. World Nuclear News has 2 items
.
Nuclear power back on UN climate change agenda. The first drafts of texts to be the basis of negotiations on a future United Nations climate change agreement in Copenhagen in December have brought back the issue of nuclear energy into the discussions. A key element for the new agreement to supercede the first phase of the Kyoto Protocol will be the future of the Clean Development Mechanism (CDM) and Joint Implementation (JI), which both give emissions credits to projects which help reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Under rules agreed in 2001, nuclear projects cannot be counted towards credits. The draft text suggests that nuclear projects being granted full eligibility as CDM and JI projects is the best of four possibilities. WNN 21/5/09.
US economic report updated. An update of the 2003 MIT study on the economics of nuclear power has been published, with a primary focus on the USA. The report said that “since 2003 construction costs for all types of large-scale engineered projects have escalated dramatically. The estimated cost of constructing a nuclear power plant has increased at a rate of 15% per year heading into the current economic downturn. This is based both on the cost of actual builds in Japan and Korea and on the projected cost of new plants planned for in the United States. Capital costs for both coal and natural gas have increased as well, although not by as much. The cost of natural gas and coal that peaked sharply is now receding. Taken together, these escalating costs leave the situation [of relative costs] close to where it was in 2003.” The overnight capital cost was given as $4000/kW, in 2007 dollars. Applying the same cost of capital to nuclear as to coal and gas, nuclear came out at 6.6 c/kWh, coal at 8.3 cents and gas at 7.4 cents, assuming a charge of $25/tonne CO2 on the latter. WNN 21/5/09.

slowtofollow
June 1, 2009 2:32 am

Fuelmaker – thanks re:NOx. That was my recollection from a plant visit where I had a figure of about 2.5ppm in memory but I wasn’t sure.
All – re: power options – informative and enjoyable stuff. FWIW my view is that the range of possibilities (and I strongly advocate less waste through cogen, trigen, improved efficiency etc etc) means that developed economies have no need to fear energy security etc. IMO open and informed debate from that perspective has a lot to offer. Specific local conditions, resources and requirements should feature strongly in debate not rigid idealogical positions.
Re: lobbying, conspiracy and BAU – as an observer, unless one makes it a full time job getting to the bottom of the detail, one never knows where the balance is here. I’d say however look at the auto industry – GM filing for bankruptcy protection says a lot IMO. I can recall all the cries over the years about the impossibiity of change to better fuel efficiency standards, new technology etc etc and the awful implications these would have for economies jobs etc etc. From where I am its hard to see how things could have been worse!
Best wishes to all

June 1, 2009 8:05 am

Jim Hopf (22:53:30) :
. . . The ideal energy policy would be to simply cap or tax CO2 emissions, and let the market decide how to respond, i.e., determine the most effective, least expensive way to reduce emissions. . .
As for fossil fuels, the fact that they are less expensive than nuclear is irrelevant, given that their free emissions into the environment will no longer be allowed. The real cost comparison would be between nuclear and coal or gas with full sequestration. I am confident nuclear could compete with that. I’d like the posters who question nuclear’s viability (vs. fossil fuels) to provide a comparison based on full CO2 sequestration for the fossil side.
Of course, with the ideal, even-handed policy I describe above, none of us should have to prove anything. We all have the right to our own opinion, as long as we agree to abide by the result of the market test. . .

The assumption that government restrictions on CO2 emissions and government requirements for CO2 ‘sequestration’ would create a ‘level playing field’ for the free market to operate in seems crazy to me.
First off, there is no need to restrict CO2 generation (a beneficial trace gas, essential for all life on Earth), so the attempt to do so is fundamentally wrong-headed and must be stopped. Second, CO2 sequestration from all I’ve read would be a fabulously expensive and fruitless exercise. Conceivably you could sell off the resulting CO2 for industrial processes or soft drinks, or something, but there’s no shortage of it now.
So how does government burdening the coal and natural-gas power industry with insane costs create a ‘level playing-field’?
From all the discussion above, it appears to me that even absent such a leg up as you propose, nuclear power can compete quite well with coal and natural gas, and should have a major place in the energy mix.
/Mr Lynn

Arthur
June 1, 2009 8:42 am

Roger wrote:
“There was a time in the U.S. when power was provided by animals, and coal-burning to produce steam, and water-wheels on small dams. If any statistics were kept (and I doubt that), one could look it up. ”
Actually its fairly well documented.
In the US Fuel/hydro energy first exceeded animal energy in ~1870.
In that year animals produced ~ 8.4 Billion Horse Power Hours and inanimate sources produced ~ 8.5 Billion.
By 1920 animal sources had almost doubled to 15.2 Billion HPHs but inanimate sources were ~ 268 Billion HPHs.
Still, I don’t find that this is very instructional. I prefer to look at trends over the last several decades, not centuries.
In that context none of the renewable technologies are new and each has gone through several itterations of major improvements such that the technology is now quite mature, meaning advances in the price/performance of all of them tend to be in small increments.
The one exception is possibly solar PV which could one day have a significant drop in cost per Watt since its essentially a manufacturing problem, and that would be great if it occurs as it could significantly change the energy generation landscape if home roofs could be economically shingled with them.
“Then coal-fired electric power plants were begun. Then hydroelectric dams were begun. The small statistics grew over time.
You do not have to agree with me, and I suspect you never will. I do invite you to keep monitoring the energy situation, though. Keep track of the solar generation in California, Arizona, and other sunny states. Keep track of the wind generation in the Great Plains and off-shore. You say electric power growth in the U.S. is around 1.5 percent per year. Wind growth has been doubling (or better) every year for the past few years and will continue at an even greater pace. When wind is at 1 percent of U.S. generation, and doubles the year after that, what will you have to say?”
Well talk about setting the bar really low.
Wind produced ~0.8% in 2007 and the percent grew in 08.
But wind did not double the amount of electricity it generated. (you are confusing yearly installed capacity with generation)
For the last five years (03-07) the average annual increase in generation was 26%.
So let’s consider.
The average growth in electrical generation for the last 10 years was 1.8%.
Let’s assume that, because of the economy, that the growth over the next 10 years will be somewhat less, so lets use a conservative growth rate of 1% per year.
Lets also assume optimistially that wind continues to grow in generation by 26% per year and capacity figures remain the same.
Now year to year growth at this high of a percent becomes very difficult very quickly, and as we increase the number of turbines the wind fields will begin to decline in quality, so expecting capacity to remain the same is also optimistic.
Still, using those assumptions:
By the end of 2014
We will have installed four times as many new Wind Turbines (capacity) as we have installed in 2007.
To keep up with the 26% growth we will need to install in 2014 alone, the same number of wind turbines that we have installed today.
And with all that we will be producing only 3.6% of our electricity from wind.
I’d continue but at this level of compounding the installation rates just become silly.
Arthur

George E. Smith
June 1, 2009 10:06 am

“”” Arthur (08:42:19) :
Roger wrote:
“There was a time in the U.S. when power was provided by animals, and coal-burning to produce steam, and water-wheels on small dams. If any statistics were kept (and I doubt that), one could look it up. ”
The one exception is possibly solar PV which could one day have a significant drop in cost per Watt since its essentially a manufacturing problem, and that would be great if it occurs as it could significantly change the energy generation landscape if home roofs could be economically shingled with them. “””
Where do you get the idea that the production of PEV solar power is a manufacturing problem ?
It’s a technology problem; mass available solar cells are just not very efficient. One of the largest module suppliers claims their panels are 18% efficient. They don’t quote any operating conditions or output power levels to support that; and they don’t say anything about the efficiency of the required AC inverter systems.
(In)Efficiency translates into surface area, and the cost of covering surface area with any inanimate structure isn’t going down any time soon; and it won’t be going down just because some of the construction material is silicon.
I know there are people who claim they can just paint on the solar cell material onto steel plate of somesuch. Well that may be true, but it also isn’t any 18% efficiency either. Did I mention that solar energy comes to us at an average rate of 168 Watts/m^2; and that is under ideal conditions.
Yes it is good on your roof; so long as your friends and neighbors don’t mind helping you pay the cost through their tax dollars; which incidently are earned mostly by the consumption of fossil fuels.
I’d like a dollar for everytime somebody says that the cost is just a manufacturing problem and we will solve that when we get into full production. Not exactly, you will get into full production when you get the energy cost of the process down so that there is actually an energy process. Lower costs bring higher production; not the other way round.
George

George E. Smith
June 1, 2009 10:09 am

Make that “so there is actually an energy gain.”

Arthur
June 1, 2009 12:45 pm

George wrote:
” Where do you get the idea that the production of PEV solar power is a manufacturing problem ?”
From one of many articles like this:
http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=solar-power-lightens-up-with-thin-film-cells
But I’m also a realist, so that’s why I said its possible, not that its probable.
I’ve read a steady stream of PV “breakthroughs” for the last decade or longer and none have really generated the promised reductions in cost per watt.
Where PV is concerned, it appears a real challenge to bring lab results to the end market.
Arthur

adoucette
June 1, 2009 1:07 pm

George,
Another article on the Thin Film PV market.
http://globalsolartechnology.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2162&Itemid=9
Arthur

Jim Hopf
June 1, 2009 6:45 pm

Mr Lynn,
Well, I would argue that nuclear has already been burdened with “insane costs”, in order to avoid negligible risks. I also don’t share your optimism that nuclear could be competive as things are currently regulated (i.e., a hopelessly unlevel playing field).
This is one weakness of any “leave it to the market” argument. The very concept of which source is cheaper is actually not meaningful. The correct description is which source is cheaper, as currently regulated. The level of regulation that each source is held to has such a strong effect on price that one cannot talk of “fundamental” cost differences between sources, without given regulations full and careful consideration.
To me it is incredibly clear that nuclear is held to infinitely higher standards, and is required to spend thousands of times as much money per unit of risk/damage avoided. In response to an event which emitted no pollution and killed nobody (TMI), the govt. (NRC) put into place regulations that literally doubled the cost of nuclear power, without so much as a congressional debate. Compare this to the wailing and hand-wringing over CO2 limits, that would have a similar impact on coal. All this spending is to prevent even a miniscule chance of a reactor emitting any pollution.
By contrast, coal plants cause 25,000 American deaths every single year (whereas nuclear plants have had no measurable health impact, ever). Most believe that even a worst case meltdown even (the thing that all that money is going to prevent) would inflict less than a tenth of the damage caused ANNUALLY by coal plants. Most of this pollution is caused by some very old coal plants that were allowed to operate, even to this day, even though they don’t meet the requirements of the (1970!!) Clean Air Act. Can you imagine if a reactor ever emitted pollution that would have that kind of effect? The pollution at these plants could be mostly eliminated at a cost of only a fraction of a cent per kW-hr, but they still won’t require it! Oh, and their toxic waste stream (i.e., fly ash that contains mercury, arsenic, uranium, etc…)?? They got it classified as non-hazardous!! (In a disturbing way, you almost have to be impressed by these guys.) Meanwhile, nuclear costs several cents more, just to avoid risks that are several orders of magnitude smaller.
What would a level playing field be if we ignore global warming? Well, nukes are not allowed to emit any pollution at all. But it goes way beyond that. They have to ensure that even the chance of emitting pollution is negligibly small. They also have to ensure that their wastes do not ever have any impact, for as long as they remain hazardous. What would the equivalent be for coal? Simple. Zero allowable emissions of SOx, NOx, mercury, particulates, radioactive isotopes (uranium), etc.., etc.. Basically, all of their wastes/toxins would have to be fully contained, and they would have to guarantee their containment for as long as they remain hazardous (much longer than nuclear waste, actually). You can vent the CO2, though….. This, of course, is a standard that coal could never meet, at almost any cost.
One beneficial side effect of CO2 limits, even if you don’t believe in AGW, is that it will end up making coal contain all those other toxins, while they are containing the CO2.
When I talk about a level playing field, one of the main things I’m referring to is that external (i.e., public health and environmental) costs be fully counted. Fossil fuels have been getting away scott free on this for decades, and it’s time it stopped.

Jim Hopf
June 1, 2009 7:10 pm

Roger wrote:
“The current buzz-phrase is cradle-to-grave, and on that basis nuclear power produces prodigious amounts of CO2 for fuel production and plant construction, and decommissioning plus waste fuel disposal.”
The issue of net CO2 emissions from various energy sources, including nuclear, has been studied to death, and all the studies show that the net emissions from nuclear, as well as renewables, are negligible compared to those of fossil fuels. In fact, nuclear’s net emissions are smaller than those of any renewable source except wind; not that it matters, since it’s all negligible compared to fossil fuels. As shown in the link below, nuclear’s net emissions (including all parts of the process such as uranium mining, enrichment, plant construction, etc…), are 2% those of coal and 5% those of gas. Renewables are similar, or more.
http://www.iaea.org/Publications/Magazines/Bulletin/Bull422/article4.pdf
Roger also wrote:
“Can you please explain how the natural-gas-fired power plants managed to withstand the earthquake, and were ready for service upon demand?”
This was purely a political decision, based on the deeply ingrained notion that zero risks from nuclear are acceptable, while thousands of routine deaths from other sources, like oil/gas-fired power plants, are perfectly OK.
The nuclear plant in question survived the earthquake without releasing any radioactivity, and without suffering any detectable significant damage. Despite this, they decided to close the plant for an extended period, in order to do intense inspections (to further prove that there was no damage), and to install earthquake upgrades (despite the fact that the plant wasn’t damaged by the earthquake).
Roger suggests that the gas plants were less damaged, or were somehow technically capable of resuming operation whereas the nuclear plant was not. There is no truth to either of these assertions. The only difference is in how nuclear is (politically) treated. It was all pure BS. Japan made a concious decision to run a raft of very old, dirty fossil-fired power plants, in place of a perfectly fine, non-polluting nuclear plant, for over a year, thereby emitting an enormous amount of CO2, and consigning hundreds, if not thousands, of Japanese to their deaths (from the pollution). They also sent huge amounts of money to Middle Eastern regimes; always helpful in terms of geopolitics and security. I consider it to be a shameful decision.

June 1, 2009 9:27 pm

Rod, I am very happy to see you were able to post here. I have learned a lot from your podcasts and hope others here will tune in: http://atomic.thepodcastnetwork.com. I also highly recommend John Wheeler’s podcast, This Week in Nuclear: http://thisweekinnuclear.com (John is an engineer who has worked in the nuclear energy industry for more than 20 years).
Note to WUWT: please consider asking Rod and/or John to write a guest post on nuclear power. It is an essential and central issue in the AGW debate.
Thanks for a great site!