Much has been written about the Insight, Honda’s new low-priced hybrid. We’ve been told how much carbon dioxide it produces, how its dashboard encourages frugal driving by glowing green when you’re easy on the throttle and how it is the dawn of all things. The beginning of days.So far, though, you have not been told what it’s like as a car; as a tool for moving you, your friends and your things from place to place.
So here goes. It’s terrible. Biblically terrible. Possibly the worst new car money can buy. It’s the first car I’ve ever considered crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn’t have to drive it any more.
The biggest problem, and it’s taken me a while to work this out, because all the other problems are so vast and so cancerous, is the gearbox. For reasons known only to itself, Honda has fitted the Insight with something called constantly variable transmission (CVT).
It doesn’t work. Put your foot down in a normal car and the revs climb in tandem with the speed. In a CVT car, the revs spool up quickly and then the speed rises to match them. It feels like the clutch is slipping. It feels horrid.
And the sound is worse. The Honda’s petrol engine is a much-shaved, built-for-economy, low-friction 1.3 that, at full chat, makes a noise worse than someone else’s crying baby on an airliner. It’s worse than the sound of your parachute failing to open. Really, to get an idea of how awful it is, you’d have to sit a dog on a ham slicer.
So you’re sitting there with the engine screaming its head off, and your ears bleeding, and you’re doing only 23mph because that’s about the top speed, and you’re thinking things can’t get any worse, and then they do because you run over a small piece of grit.
Because the Honda has two motors, one that runs on petrol and one that runs on batteries, it is more expensive to make than a car that has one. But since the whole point of this car is that it could be sold for less than Toyota’s Smugmobile, the engineers have plainly peeled the suspension components to the bone. The result is a ride that beggars belief.
There’s more. Normally, Hondas feel as though they have been screwed together by eye surgeons. This one, however, feels as if it’s been made from steel so thin, you could read through it. And the seats, finished in pleblon, are designed specifically, it seems, to ruin your skeleton. This is hairy-shirted eco-ism at its very worst.
Please click to read the rest of the article at the Times Online
Don’t get me wrong, I like new technology, and improved fuel economy too, but I just had to show this auto review excerpt from the Sunday Times because, well, it’s just so darn funny.
In some places (Seattle?) they’re already talking about taxing you on the number of miles you drive. A little GPS gizmo can tally it up.
Oh, and with that little gizmo Big Brother can keep track of your travels, too—and tell your wife.
/Mr Lynn
Charles the Moderator: Great name, sounds like an early mediaeval French king like Charles the Hammer, or Charles the Bald. Wish I’d thought of it!
They tried the diesel Jeep here a few years ago. I was a total flop.
Their cars are improving on a logarithmic scale. If they pass the Australian ADR rules they will pass ANcap standards and then pass U.S. standards – all on ” borrowed” technology
What took the Japanese 20 years to achieve in quality control, what took the South Koreans 10 years to achieve in quality control, the Chinese are cramming into a couple of years.
It’s a pity Honda had to release a new ‘Insight’. The old Insight is the only hybrid car, and one of three Hondas worth owning (NSX, S2000). It really is a brilliant piece of engineering- a coefficient of drag of 0.25 is an insane achievement on a hatchback. The engine is mental too- Honda may never have built a one a decent size, but the Insight approaches an air-fuel ratio of 25:1 in highway lean cruise. That makes for some incredible efficiency numbers (the real kind- power for fuel burnt, not kilometers for fuel burnt). And as an added bonus, in that mode, it puts out the kind of nitrous oxide emissions that got American muscle cars killed off in the mid 70’s.
And the lack of space is a great excuse to drive the V8 :).
Les Francis (04:34:01) :
That’s an interesting opinion, but I’m not sure if you’re aware of the heroic way our government has worked to keep worthless Jap imports out of our car market. The Australian government first adopted side intrusion bars, then arbitarily defined emissions standards purely to keep the Japanese from passing off their handmedowns on us. Do you honestly believe even the new Labour government would let Chinese cars into Australia? My guess for the pretext is enforcement of intellectual property laws on their trash.
Robert Wood (17:08:51) :
Note to non-USA readers: When your read something such as “35 MPG in the US”, remember that a US gallon is only 80% of an Imperial gallon! So, the numbers are better than you think.
Yesterday here in the UK the BBC ran a report on the new US MPG numbers and using a reporter in Los Angeles with stills of a smog laden city waxed about the changes but in their lament section drew attention to the EU edict for 45mpg and stated that the US was still lagging behind. They had not factored in the difference in US and Imperial gallon volume that brings the numbers somewhat closer together.
Re. Jeremy Clarkson. He has been quoted saying that he does not have a carbon footprint as he always drives every where. 🙂
Just Want Truth… says:
Well, SmartCars are indeed tiny (and apparently don’t get that great gas mileage considering how tiny they are). However, the Prius is not a tiny car…It’s almost the same size as a Toyota Camry and seats 5 fairly comfortably. Conversely, with only two people and the back seats folded down, it has quite a lot of cargo space. In fact, I can fit my bicycle in without even bothering to take off any of the wheels.
mr.artday says:
Hmmm…I don’t see why the water has to be in liquid form. I got to drive a GM protype hydrogen fuel cell car and its water emissions seemed to be all in the vapor form. And, of course, you are aware that when you burn fossil fuels, the two major combustion products are CO2 and water vapor? So, the difference between the hydrogen-powered car and the gasoline-powered one is just whether there is also CO2 emitted or not. (That said, because it has to be produced, hydrogen itself is not an energy source but merely a means of energy storage and one still has to worry about CO2 produced in making the hydrogen.)
My subcompact hatch gets around 25mpg city and 35mpg hwy. 0-60mph in under 7seconds (6.2-6.8sec typ.) so performance is average. I use around 250 USgal/year of premium (92 octane or 95RON equivalent).
I would still consider a hybrid, but it would still have to make economic sense to do so. One other thing. It would have to be fun to drive as well.
Completely moot to me, because I couldn’t fit the wife and four kids inside unless they all went through intensive clown training first, and I doubt I could drive it without removing four inches above and below my knee. Neither of which there are plans to do. Still, good for a laugh.
“old construction worker (00:49:15) : When my oldest daughter turned 16 in 1986, I gave her my old 74 buick to drive. She hated it, but it kept her safe.”
If I had a daughter that age I’d do the same. I wouldn’t get her a little car. I would care about her like you did with your daughter. Good on ya mate!
If you have read some Australian motoring articles you will know that there are a couple of major importers who are negotiating with Chinese companies about importing their cars and have been for the last number of months.
This will not be a grey-market import scheme. It will be a major assault on the market.
And here’s some inside info for you.
A relative of mine up to recently owned factories that manufactured components for the Big 3 for new car construction. Up until a few years ago all these components where made here in Australia. The engineering and machines were shifted to China and all parts were made there and then imported.
Since the ar@e has fallen out of the new car market that business has been sold off and my relative has moved into the automotive alternate fuel market in a big way. For the last couple of months he has been in negotiations with Chinese car manufactures to engineer models that will be powered by LPG. These will get around the emission laws. You know that the Oz government loves LPG.
A cut price green credentialed car powered by LPG which is half the price of traditional petrol. Watch all those green guilt councils and government departments line up for them. Get 2 or 3 for the price of a hybrid.
As you know the greenest car sold in Australia is a Ford powered by LPG.
Les Francis says:
Ahhh, now I understand Obama’s scramble to introduce new fuel efficiency standards … protect the home side.
Diesel has an excellent future, whether refined from crude oil, or produced synthetically from other carbon sources. I don’t know what the additional cost would be, but one ought to be able to reform hydrogen and CO2 into diesel as well. It may be cost effective in having the energy in a far more concentrated form with the ability to use existing distribution and storage infrastructure. Modern diesel engines have excellent efficiency, performance and emissions, and there is the potential for far greater improvements in the next few years.
Personally, I am impressed with some of the hydraulic hybrid technology. It is cheaper and gives regenerative braking with energy recovery rates above 70%. It can even be combined with electric, with or without an ICE, to bring down the size of the motor and battery required.
When are they going to produce a hybrid Dodge Caravan? Caravan owners are cheap/thrifty, and often strapped for cash, since they usually need the extra seating for a larger family. They would appreciate a competatively priced hybrid version. I would even take a Caravan with the Jeep diesel engine, but it is only available outside of North America.
The Prius may sit 5, but they must be very short people. I like the Hondas, but I couldn’t fit in them comfortably, and I am only 6′ 1″. I bought a VW instead.
Just Want Truth… (20:21:15) :
Agreed- the (limited) popularity of the Smart is a little strange. It’s just a very small French car- for the 21st century- just unlike an old Peuguot 106 or Citreon AX the tiny engine is at the rear, you don’t get a diesel and it’s ten times as expensive. Better to have an engine in the front to crumple zone the rear of the car you hit and plenty of interior volume to give your body space to not be crushed in.
Joel Shore (06:55:44) :
But water vapour in your world is the biggest pollutant – it will make its way to the upper troposhere and increase the positive feedback.
Surely you should be on a bicycle too just like dhogaza.
If you really want to solve this global warming crisis surely we have to go back to the stone age as per Pete Best over at RC?
The Priuses are pretty nice. My stepmom has two of them (don’t ask me why), a 2004 model and a newer one she bought last year (guess she should have waited another year for the 3rd gen).
As to the SmartCars. I first saw them in Canada a couple years ago. They sell a diesel version up there which gets something like 60mpg. But for some reason the diesel version isn’t being sold in the US. So the Us version only touts 40mpg. The tradeoff in MPG for such a small car is NOT worth it. With my wife and I, we couldn’t even fit our groceries in the thing. It’s simply not practical for anything except getting from point A to point B, assuming you’re not bringing anything back to point A.
I absolutely hate this. It’s so dangerous I can’t imagine how someone thought this was a good idea. All motor vehicles should follow the same rules. Period.
Just because it works for you doesn’t me it works for everyone. Where do you put your family’s groceries? What if you need a load of soil for the yard? Some lumber? What if you want to keep what you’re carrying dry? And what happens when you go flying off at 70 mph?
The economics of gas consumption is only one aspect of vehicle cost. I prefer to focus on depreciation. The best one I’ve had so far is a 198? Olds Regency Brougham. Paid $3,600 for it with 65,000 miles. Put 150,000 miles on it and got $1000 on a trade in for a Grand Marquis. That’s 1.73 cents per mile depreciation. Beat that with your econocars. Was used as a Taxi for three years after that. My current vehicle, a 1990 Jeep Cherokee Laredo, to date has cost 3.1 cents per mile, not counting salvage value. With estimated salvage value it’s down to 2.8 cents. With 250k miles, I don’t know if it will make it below 2.0 cents. Of course, I’m not telling what my wife is driving, as she won’t ride in the jeep ;~P.
Clarkson doesn’t like any car that won’t do at least 200 mph.
Les Francis (07:54:57) :
I’ll believe it when I see it. The government might be happy enough to subsidize Camrys being built here but I can’t see Chinese ripoffs being imported straight in. The Ford factory LPG versions aren’t important to them because they’re green- or because they’re much better cars than any front-drive Toyota- they’re important because they’re very fuel economical without being slow, and thus good value, and most importantly are built in Australia from Australian components. We can still afford to fight cartels, whether they are Japanese or Chinese. It’s just a pity the US didn’t do the same.
Sounds almost like me, lol. I just commuted downstairs after grabbing some breakfast.
But, the Prius would have no trouble with the 130+ miles, and is where it shines, at constant highway speeds. No vehicle is going to get the purported mileage if you have a lead foot (as you stated).
You get used to the CVT. I believe Toyota has the best implementation.
The guy in this interview should just go buy a piece of junk like a used Grand Am with all its heaving allure.
I own a Prius and will probably not be buying a hybrid or Toyota next but it won’t be something this guy likes.
For those of you out there who don’t understand what happened to diesels you can thank California emmisions. My wife got a 2007 ‘classic’ Silverado Duramax with no afterburners or silly crap on it. What they have to do on large transport trucks is ridiculous. Regional registration restricting diesels in urban areas would have been smarter and allowed us to keep our mileage and functionality.
“It’s the first car I’ve ever considered crashing into a tree, on purpose, so I didn’t have to drive it any more.”
That really made me laugh!
At least it’ll be reliable, being a Honda, but I’ve never been one for these Hybrid cars, you’ll often find straight petrol or diesel engines with more MPG. And they aren’t the most environmentally cars to produce either!
Seems like one to avoid for me.
http://www.onlinecharity.wordpress.com
PaulHClark says:
While it is true that water vapor is a greenhouse gas, it is not true that it is one that we can (at least at anything close to our current energy usage) influence the concentration of in the atmosphere significantly through our emissions. The concentration of water vapor is determined almost exclusively by the temperature…which is why people say that water vapor is a feedback and not a forcing. I.e., the way that we can change the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere is by raising the temperature in other ways (such as by increasing concentration of long-lived greenhouse gases like CO2) and not by adding more to the atmosphere directly.
As for the bicycle idea, I do in fact try to bicycle when it is practical. It has the double bonus of providing me with exercise in additional to reducing the problems associated with automobile use. But, obviously, it is only practical for certain trips.
And no, I don’t think that we have to return to the stone age to solve the global warming problem.
Andrew Parker says:
Well, I am not the best person to judge how comfortable it is for tall people being only 5’5″ myself. But, the Prius actually has quite a bit of legroom in the back…in fact, more than some considerably larger cars.