Another anemic solar cycle 23 sunspeck, could 19th century astronomers have seen it?
From Spaceweather.com
SUNSPOT 1016: A ring-shaped sunspot numbered 1016 has emerged near the sun’s equator. Its magnetic polarity identifies it as a member of old Solar Cycle 23. Until these old cycle sunspots go away, the next solar cycle will remain in abeyance.

DJ (18:47:47) :
Thank you for the report on your planet, DJ. Tell me, what color is the sky there?
DJ-
1. 2009 is running cooler than every year since 2001, aside from 2008. STILL, no sign of global warming kicking in, so no…not consistent with popular notions of AGW/CO2 forcing.
2. Yes, Fairbanks is quite warm right now. They were due after 6+ months of well below normal temps in Alaska.
RE:
Pearland Aggie (18:03:56) :
“….
UNITED NATIONS — The Obama administration, in a major environmental policy shift, is leaning toward asking 195 nations that ratified the U.N. ozone treaty to enact mandatory reductions in hydrofluorocarbons, according to U.S. officials and documents obtained by The Associated Press.
“We’re considering this as an option,” Environmental Protection Agency spokeswoman Adora Andy said Wednesday, emphasizing that while a final decision has not been made it was accurate to describe this as the administration’s “preferred option.”….”
This is no doubt a prelude for the administration to harness EPA to the UN as the “environmental” governing body with respect to AGW.
They just keep coming– the solar cycle 23 spots. You must admit this one looks more impressive than anything coming from 24. Yesterday there was a cluster.
George, your wish is my command: http://whatcatastrophe.com/drupal/node/25
DJ (18:47:47) :
Global temperatures continue to run well above average and the sun remains quite. How much longer before we are willing to admit that this is entirely consistent with the enhanced greenhouse effect?
PS Awfully hot in Alaska ATM – http://www.wunderground.com/US/AK/Fairbanks.html . Perhaps worth a report?
And the temps in Australia/Nw Zealand?
I’ve asked this question before but never seen an answer.
In what year was an instrument invented that would have been able to see the most recent spot (1016, was it?)?
DJ(18:47:47)
Sorry DJ, high temperatures this time of year in Interior Alaska are not all that uncommon. I have been keeping track of weather in my yard for over 20 years, here in Fairbanks, and in 1994, 1995, 2003, 2004, and 2005, (just to name a few) we had temps in the mid to high 70’s on dates April 26 to May 1.
I still use these sunspot images to find specs on my LCD.
So far 5 specs, no sunspots.
Answering this question really isn’t very hard. All we need to is go to museums that have saved the tools that were used to count sunspots through history, make reasonable replicas of them and then take them out the next time there’s one of these specs and see what you see. Can we figure out what the sunspot measurement tool was in say 1613, 1713, 1813 and 1913? I’ll go first.
It seems that multiple people began observing sunspots in 1610/1611, including Galileo:
http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/observations/sunspots.html ,
here is a time line:
http://galileo.rice.edu/chron/galileo.html
and this is when our modern sunspot number tracking began: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sunspot_Numbers.png
Here’s some of the pictures of sunspots that Galileo drew: http://galileo.rice.edu/sci/observations/sunspot_drawings.html
and here are some of his writings on sunspots in 1613.
http://hsci.ou.edu/exhibits/exhibit.php?exbgrp=1&exbid=13&exbpg=2
One of the telescopes that Galileo used can usually be found in a museum in Florence:
http://joetourist.ca/Italy/FlorenceScienceHistory.htm , but it just so happens that its currently on loan, to the Franklin Institute in Philadelphia right now:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hZjQkA9hNcjEjaBvmKQNr1Zp3zBgD97AISR80
A team in Florence has actually recently recreated one of Galileo’s telescopes:
http://www.scientificblogging.com/news_releases/galileos_telescope_recreated
Perhaps we can ask to borrow the replica telescope in Florence to conduct a study or ask them for detailed instructions so that we can recreate our own? Is there someone, with a scientific background, who is interested in taking this on as a project?
Here’s something, a ‘reduce CO2 to save the planet’ game, centered around Green Propaganda
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/ecotycoonprojectgreen/index.html
Not to mention I found it as the comic ‘Sherman’s Lagoon’ was doing a week telling people about the melting Arctic and illustrating it as virtually Ice Free which it really was not quite last year and definate not this year.
Who can afford enough servants?
DJ (18:47:47) :
Global temperatures continue to run well above average and the sun remains quite. How much longer before we are willing to admit that this is entirely consistent with the enhanced greenhouse effect?
PS Awfully hot in Alaska ATM – http://www.wunderground.com/US/AK/Fairbanks.html . Perhaps worth a report?
In the weather isn’t climate mode after the last 2 years we will take all the
the global warming we can get. Since Jan 2008 Fairbanks is running about 1.4 below what the National weather service says is normal. Anchorage is -1.6 as of today. I love today’s weather, in the 50’s, short sleeve weather, as I look out my front window at a snow covered mountain and studiously ignoring the ice still on my favorite trout lakes.
All that’s left is a bright plage region, so this one lasted all of two days. A bit better than last week’s quicky from the 21st.
Forget climate change; give some big research bucks to the solar guys so they can get a handle on what’s not happening.
Pearland Aggie (18:03:56) wrote: “… here we go using a red herring to chase another red herring…..the Montreal protocol was an abomination. …”
Two immediate thoughts.
1. That this is a warning bell we would do well to heed and respond to.
2. That it is an indication of concern amongst the AGW promoters that not all is going to plan.
Leading to: This move must be watched carefully and broadcast widely. If “they” are feeling cornered their present level of extremes will be exceeded. This could lead to “their” implosion; but it could also lead to even greater damage to the world at large than “they” are threatening now.
The cornered rat…
Larry Sheldon (19:58:06) :
I’ve asked this question before but never seen an answer.
In what year was an instrument invented that would have been able to see the most recent spot (1016, was it?)?
Mt. Wilson’s 12″ F150 apochromat was somewhere around 1912.
One hundred years ago, 1909, 11016 could not be projected sucessfully.
I tried with a conventional similar to Wolf’s, and could not see the spot. It was far too faint.
I have sucessfully followed all the main spots from 2008 until late January. From then on, the spots are too faint to project with my instrument.
To answer the topic question: “Another anemic solar cycle 23 sunspeck, could 19th century astronomers have seen it?” the answer is……..
NO.
Today, April 30, Mt. Wilson saw the main spot, but has a question mark. Means to me that attendant microspots in the group were not clearly discerned.
And this is why Catania sees more:
Ha Lyot-filter (bandwidth of 0.25 – 0.50 Å, tunable filter range +/- 16 Å)
and a 1360 x 1200 Astromed TE4 CCD array. In patrol full-disk mode
the camera can taken images every 60 s, with a dynamical range of 16 bit.
It is CCD aided ?? You tell me what they are doing.
Says to me that they have machined aided drawing cheater bar.
Technically sophisticated, yes, historically accurate in this topic’s context, no.
And no surpise, then, that Catania sees both the main spot and a subspot in the group today, while Mt. Wilson’s 12″ F150 Perkin-Elmer apochromat only got the main spot undera a seeing of 3.
Catania only has a 6″ F/15.6 refractor ( probably an apochromat of advanced design).
Compare the instruments and the results for yourself.
I enjoy your blog. I have never posted here but I thought you might enjoy this some what off topic link.
http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=334268
You may have to scroll down a bit to read the question and the answer.
Flood Watch in effect through Saturday morning for the Tanana river in Salcha…
Ice jam Flood Warning has been cancelled for the Chatanika river…
Near record high temperatures through Friday…
In any year that I have found an abundance of record temps, they occur at both ends of the spectrum, record heat and record cold. The sine wave gets stretched both ways, preserving the median temperature. When the year is over, you take the whole record & examine it.
Which won out, record heat or record cold? What was the median temp?
Answer that and you answer the climate question for that particular year.
Leon Brozyna (21:00:19) :
Forget climate change; give some big research bucks to the solar guys so they can get a handle on what’s not happening.
Agreed. Hand PolyAnnaScience the pink slip. Even the most diehard Disaster Movie enthusiast tires of the same old flickers. Who’s up for Earthquake IV? Asteroid VI?
Pam says, “But let’s be clear, the Sun is not cooler for lack of spots.”
Which makes me ask, “What temp are you measuring? The average surface temp? The average volume temp?” It’s just one big ball of gas – nothing solid or liquid – just fuzzy stuff.
Are you saying that only the surface temp can affect the Earth? Or, is there some temp probe used to measure the internal temp of the sun? I’m guessing any temps are just theoretically calculated and not exactly measured.
There are about 3 things that drive me completely out of my mind – one is a marital thing, one deals with lib media, and the other one is the claim that the sun can’t drive Earth’s temp chages. AAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!
DJ (18:47:47) : “Global temperatures continue to run well above average and the sun remains quite….”
Quite? Quite what? Quite sun-like? Or quite like the marquee down at your old Bijou Theater? In case no one’s told you, DJ, the marquee switch is in that little panel above the popcorn machine.
Since late 2007 its been cooler, as compared to the previous few years. During this period we have had both la nina conditions (or more recently ‘la nina like’), and very low sun activity. So which caused the cooling? Or is it a bit of both?
Well a good test may be coming up. Nino 3.4 just crossed over to the warm side of zero a couple weeks ago, and it appears a reasonable chance that conditions will swing further towards el nino in coming months.
It can take a few months for temperature to follow ENSO, so assuming that ENSO conditions do continue towards el nino (very difficult to predict for sure), then us alarmists will no longer be able to point towards the recent La nina/cool ENSO conditions to excuse any further cooling.
At the same time I notice that Uah daily values have just nudged high enough to be greater than same day any year from 1999 to 2007 (but presumably lower than 1998 which was very high, but the uah site doesn’t display daily values for)….
I see another 23 forming center, a bit above the equator.
Pretty soon I will start telling fortunes.
The question of whether the sunspot number two hundred years ago was accurately determined has been solved 150 years ago. Solar activity creates more ultraviolet light that in turn creates and maintains the Earth’s ionosphere during the daytime as an electrical conducting layer(s). During the day the ionosphere heats up and thermal winds blow this electrical conductor across the Earth magnetic field which causes an electrical current to be induced. An electrical current as its own magnetic field and as the Earth rotates under this current [which is fixed under the Sun] an observer on the surface will see a compass needle be deflected about a 1/5th of a degree to one side in the morning and then returning to its normal position when night falls. This diurnal variation was discovered by George Graham in London in 1722 and was studied by several workers in the 1740s, 1760s, and from 1780 on to the present day. Back then, 1/5th of a degree could be readily measured and we have thus reliable data about the deflection of the ‘magnetic needle’ since the middle of the 18th century. It turns out the amount of deflection is a sensitive measure of the Extreme UV flux from the Sun, we therefore know what the EUV flux has been the past ~250 years. Modern data shows that the sunspot number [until now] is a good proxy for the EUV flux, so if we know one, we know the other. We therefore know what the ‘real’ sunspot has been the past 250 years. By comparing the numbers reported by a given observer [over some time] to what we know they should have been we can determine the ‘correction’ factor [the ‘k’ in the equation SSN = k * (10*g+s)] for that observer. It therefore does not matter how good his telescope was or his eyesight or if he only counted big spots or included the specks, or whatever other quirks there might be. We can determine what his count would have been had he used modern instruments and techniques.
This much was already known to Rudolf Wolf in 1859, who used this technique in his inter-calibration of different observers to produce his famous composite Wolf Number. Later observers had forgotten or had come to distrust the method using the magnetic needle [basically the ‘fault’ of the famous geophysicist Sidney Chapman who pointed out that relation Wolf had found between the sunspot number and the diurnal variation of the Declination – the angle between true North and the direction in which the compass needle pointed varied from station to station and with time such as to render the method suspect]. As a result the sunspot number calibration since then has changed when the primary observer changed without anybody noticing.
With our modern understanding of how the ionosphere is created and maintained we now know that the important parameter is not the Declination as Wolf thought [and as Chapman derided], but the additional magnetic force in the East-West direction created by the stationary ionospheric currents overhead as the observer rotates with the Earth. There is a simple relation between the East-West force and the Declination [F = H cos D], so one can readily compute one from the other, which means that the geomagnetic method becomes correct and useful if one uses the East-West deflection instead.
The result of all this is that there is a reliable way of gauging solar activity [e.g. as measured by the EUV] going back 250 years. And that we can then determine the calibration of the sunspot number from that.
There is one fly in the ointment: the sunspot number may not be a good proxy for solar activity at all times. Livingston and Penn have found that in the last decade sunspots have become harder and harder to see [and in fact predict them to become invisible by 2015]. The magnetic field of the spots [albeit a bit weaker] will still be there, the solar cycle will still operate, cosmic rays will still be modulted, 10Be in ice cores will still vary, there will still be an interplanetary magnetic field, there will still be a solar wind, comet tails will still point away from the sun, there will still be aurorae, and magnetic storms, and flares, and CMEs, etc [all possibly slightly subdued]. This means that the sunspot number will no longer be a good measure of solar activity. Perjaps this happened during the Maunder Minimum, as well. At the ongoing Space Weather Workshop, Ken Tapping, who measures the 10.7 cm radio flux from the sun, that in the past was an accurate proxy for the sunspot number [actually the other way around], has just presented this paper:
Title: The Changing Relationship Between Sunspot Number and F10.7
Abstract: Sunspot Number and the 10.7cm solar radio flux are the most widely-used indices of solar activity. Despite their differing nature and origins at different places in the Sun, these two indices are highly-correlated to the point where one can be used as a proxy for the other. However, during Solar Activity Cycle 23 we started to see a small but definite change in this relationship….
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This may be an indication that L&P are correct [or at least some change is happening], but it is still to early to tell. The coming cycle will be most interesting if these things are happening.
It also means that prediction of the sunspot number becomes a bit fuzzy. What almost all methods predict is the magnetic field expressed by the sunspot number proxy. The implicit assumption is, of course, that that relation does not change with time. If it does, the predictions will be of the ‘effective’ sunspot number [i.e. the ‘old’ number that such and such magnetic field would give].
All of this is somewhat speculative, but makes the coming cycle extremely important for our understanding of the cycle.