What would NSIDC and our media make of a photo like this if released by the NAVY today? Would we see headlines like “NORTH POLE NOW OPEN WATER”? Or maybe “Global warming melts North Pole”? Perhaps we would. sensationalism is all the rage these days. If it melts it makes headlines.
Some additional captures from the newsreel below show that the ice was pretty thin then, thin enough to assign deckhands to chip it off after surfacing.The newsreel is interesting, here is the transcript.
1958 Newsreel: USS Skate, Nuclear Sub, Is First to Surface at North Pole
ED HERLIHY, reporting:
USS Skate heads north on another epic cruise into the strange underseas realm first opened up by our nuclear submarines. Last year, the Skate and her sister-sub Nautilus both cruised under the Arctic ice to the Pole. Then, conditions were most favorable. The Skate’s job is to see if it can be done when the Arctic winter is at its worst, with high winds pushing the floes into motion and the ice as thick as twenty-five feet.
Ten times she is able to surface. Once, at the North Pole, where crewmen performed a mission of sentiment, scattering the ashes of polar explorer Sir Hubert Wilkins. In 1931, he was the first to attempt a submarine cruise to the Pole. Now, the Skate’s twelve-day three thousand mile voyage under the ice, shown in Defense Department films, demonstrates that missile-carrying nuclear subs could lurk under the Polar Ice Cap, safe from attack, to emerge at will, and fire off H-bomb missiles to any target on Earth.
A powerful, retaliatory weapon for America’s defense.
For example, one crew member aboard the USS Skate which surfaced at the North Pole in 1959 and numerous other locations during Arctic cruises in 1958 and 1959 said:
“the Skate found open water both in the summer and following winter. We surfaced near the North Pole in the winter through thin ice less than 2 feet thick. The ice moves from Alaska to Iceland and the wind and tides causes open water as the ice breaks up. The Ice at the polar ice cap is an average of 6-8 feet thick, but with the wind and tides the ice will crack and open into large polynyas (areas of open water), these areas will refreeze over with thin ice. We had sonar equipment that would find these open or thin areas to come up through, thus limiting any damage to the submarine. The ice would also close in and cover these areas crushing together making large ice ridges both above and below the water. We came up through a very large opening in 1958 that was 1/2 mile long and 200 yards wide. The wind came up and closed the opening within 2 hours. On both trips we were able to find open water. We were not able to surface through ice thicker than 3 feet.”
– Hester, James E., Personal email communication, December 2000
Here are some screencaps from the newsreel:
It was that way again in 1962:
And of course then there’s this famous photo:
But contrast that to 1999, just 12 years later, lots of ice:
But in 1993, it’s back to thin ice again:
The point illustrated here: the North Pole is not static, ice varies significantly. The Arctic is not static either. Variance is the norm.
There’s quite an interesting read at John Daly’s website, including a description of “the Gore Box”. Everybody should have one of those.
h/t to WUWT commenters Stephen Skinner, Crosspatch, and Glenn.
See the Skate image archive at NAVSOURCE
@vukcevic
Many thanks for that link.
Once before I almost fell off my chair when reading a climate change article – this was when I first heard about the opinion polls that show pretty conclusively that the majority of ordinary people believe the warming is mostly natural.
Once again I almost fell off my chair while reading this report – ok, a slight exaggeration!
The Independent is one of the major UK national newspapers and as far as I know is completely pro-AGW. This news report is almost perfectly balanced and actually questions AGW in the light of past historical knowledge of solar activity and climate. The report also passes what I could call the Solar Activity Test.
I have seen a number of documentaries and articles that discuss a possible cooling due to falling solar activity – I think one documentary was entitled ‘Saved by the Sun?’
But I noticed an extraordinary thing: not one of these mentioned a rather important fact, that the sun had been extraordinarily active during the 20th century. According to some scientists the sun was the most active for a few thousand years.
It’s obvious why this fact was suppressed. The spin was that the ‘disastrous’ warming was caused by CO2, but that the sun might come to our rescue by offsetting some of the warming. Of course, the other, and some might say blindingly obvious explanation is that the 20th century warming was caused by the overactive sun, and that now the sun has calmed down the world will start to cool. But of course that wouldn’t do, would it? If true then it means that CO2 has an insignificant role to play in climate change.
This article does state that solar activity was high in the 20th century, so it passes the test with flying colours.
I know it may be wishful thinking, but I do get the sense that the tide is slowly turning in favour of the truth. And this article in a major UK newspaper is just one more sign of this.
Chris
Subs at the north pole does not really mean much as the quote from James Hester shows, they picked thin or ice-free if possible areas to surface at. It does show the action of the ice and that ice-free areas are not unusual in the arctic.
Non-icebreakers forcing the Northwest passage are much more telling because that can only be done when there is a significant decrease in ice over large areas. Of course that has been done a few times over the last 100 years. Question did any non-icebreakers make it though in 2007?
Are there any newspaper types reading these posts? Is there anyone here that has a connection with a large newspaper that would publish a good article. Can we get a copy of the submarines at the pole newsreel to give to TV stations. I think the media is just about ready to take a look at this kind of stuff. Here is a chance to put together a terrific article with US Navy 1950s-60s, the British Navy 1817 etc showing global warming ranges of today as not unusual. I’m concerned as I can see there is a scurry to get expensive global warming policies in place -as they have in Europe with their cap and trade and hype. There is also a president that is “conciliatory” to the Old World malarkey and is greener than Kilarney. If they managed to pass the cap and trade stuff in North America then this cooling period would be seen as having been the result of these new policies even before a mole of CO2 had been bought and sold. Preaching to ourselves has had some spin off but I think we have to find a way to push the best stuff out there.
Come on Guys we all know that the conditions prevailing previously was weather not climate?
These weather conditions have been going on for millions of years but the underlying trend and past records of Polar bear extinction demonstrate that the climate is changing.
Are people really trying to say that numerous weather events are climate?
Using ambient moisture content readings from Scots pine and other proxies such as those I choose, I will be able to show for sure that the arctic ice being so thin in 1958, 1959 1936 and 1922 was due to CO2 emissions. In fact I don’t need to do any more research because the Hockey Stick Graph shows this warming.
On another point it is clear that the swine virus originating in Mexico is due to global warming and this is obvious.
I have tried unsuccessfully to connect with NSIDC for a few hours and they aren’t available. The blue line angling to meet or cross the average ice extent curve has been building up palpable suspense for a couple of weeks. I’m betting there is a new report coming out that will move their position cautiously away from deep global warming to tepid global warming and eventually … WUWT?
I’m reminded of Alistair MacLean’s classic book (and later movie with Rock Hudson), Ice Station Zebra.
Doesn’t anyone remember watching Ice Station Zebra on TV as a kid?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_Station_Zebra_(novel)
@TonyB,
Tony, I was fascinated by your reference to Ipiutak, which I had not come across before. Two references gave dates, one about 100BC, the other around the 6th century. The first date corresponds perfectly with the Roman Warm Period, the second with a significant warming that occurred between the Roman and Medieval Warm Periods (according to an ice core graph that I often refer to). According to the ice core, around the 7th century there was a cooling that was actually deeper than the LIA, and the MWP may have occurred as the climate bounced back from this sharp cooling.
Here’s an interesting link:
http://explorenorth.com/articles/billjones/ipiutak.html
The writer mentions several mysteries, for example the nearest source of wood being hundreds of miles away. He was clearly assuming that the climate was the same as today’s. If the climate were indeed warmer than today’s then most if not all of those mysteries are neatly explained.
It looks as if the Ipiutak can be added to the list of civilisations/cultures that prospered when the world was warm and died out when the world was cold.
Chris
ak (04:04:21) :
“Ice at the North Pole in 1958 and 1959 – not so thick?” lol – should be “Polynyas exist then as they do now”
ak,
The title of the article is perfect and we don’t want to make it too complicated by using difficult scientific words like “Polynyas”.
That is because we want the “Incoming Director of the NSIDC to understand the story. We all like to see Dr. Mark Serreze succeed his career.
Unfortunately, from his position as “Incoming Director of the NSIDC” made some remarks about the Arcic Sea Ice that left us with the conclusion that he was a little confused and mixed up some basic thermodynamics.
It could also be that he has mixed up the understanding of the words “warm and cold”. It happens and it is perfectly human to make a mistake.
That is why I am very pleased with this publication and I really hope Dr. Mark Serreze
gets a chance to read it.
It would be a shame if the “Incoming Director of the NSIDC would become the “Outgoing Director of the NSIDC” only because of such a miner issue of understanding.
So, just for the record Dr. Mark Serreze, if you get a chance to read this, just repeat after me:
Cold is not warm and warm is not cold.
Warm = water
Cold = Ice
Except in the Arctic Region where:
cold + water + wind + sea currents = dynamic circumstances + Dr. Mark Serreze =
NO PANIC
Now if Dr. Mark Serreze will concentrate on last remark, I am sure he will be a fine director.
You see how easy it is to help some people.
Wally,
this story is not from 2007, but from last year …
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2008/11/28/nwest-vessel.html
maybe a Canadian reader can easily pinpoint the villages or towns in the article and confirm whether this was unusual or not …
Yep, the entire NSIDC wweb site seems to be offline for at least the last 8 hours.
It’s cold war propaganda.
Dill Weed
Since the Arctic sea ice never melted in the past, why did the Eskimo invent the kayak and the larger whaling boat capable of holding a dozen hunters?
http://www.arcticwebsite.com/WhaleNativeBoat.html
In terms of sea ice thickness, there is data from the Canadian Ice Service of sea ice monitoring at various communities across the Arctic that goes back to 1947. This would be coastal sea ice versus north pole pack ice but here is Alert and Eureka Canada where ice thickness has been measured basically once a week since 1947. The NSIDC ice movement maps say this area has the most multi-year ice remaining so it is the anomaly now.
Some ups, some downs, maybe a little down recently but still difficult to tell.
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/3163/seaicethickness.png
Barry Foster (02:31:10) :
“Just wanted to say how much I miss John Daly. His was the very first website I read on global warming after I converted from a believer. The sceptic cause lost a huge man when he died. Imagine the beating he’d be giving the warming-worriers today! I hope the relatives of Mr Daly appreciate how much we miss him.”
Amen!
For those that have not seen the John Daly info, it’s an excellent resource for Arctic infomation. Worthy of reading and bookmarking.
http://www.john-daly.com/polar/arctic.htm
A.Longiv although he had visited the North Pole already 1990
Did he really do it?. It would be interesting to have a picture of that trascendental event.
TonyB (02:44:27) :
Very interesting and illuminating post.
Can you point to sources for the Royal Society and Hudson’s Bay Company data showing an ice cycle of 80 years?
Thanks.
I will never forget the headlines and news stories about a decade ago when somebody ‘discovered’ open water at the North Pole one summer. You would have thought the apocalypse was upon us.
Of course, the retractions and corrections were barely noticed when it was pointed out this was a common occurrence and not a sign of global warming.
All that is missing is an apology from the apologist here.
But has not the 30 percent decrease happened since 1979?
Alan the Brit (02:16:23) wrote:
“Seriously though, can I just copy these pictures without too much difficulty because I really would like to show them to one or two idiots I know?”
Alan-
Go to
http://wisdom-soft.com/products/screenhunter_free.htm
You can download (free!!) ScreenHunter software that will let you screen capture whatever is showing on your screen (or parts thereof). I have been using it for months with great satisfaction. (On the rare occasion that it doesn’t go to the screen that you want, right click and try again. That cancels that attempt withot a blank exposure.) You can then e-mail whatever you copy.
Ian in Canada [imcqueen@nbnet.nb.ca]
Great and informative post!
However, is the first photo really of the Skate surfacing at the Pole on 17 March 1959? Or is it really just a file photo, taken elsewhere on another date, of the Skate, which surfaced at the Pole on 17 March 1959?
If the photo was really taken during the last week of winter, why is there so little ice in comparison with the other photos, many of which were taken in mid-summer? According to Hester’s account, the sub had to break through 2 feet of ice to do a winter surfacing. I see the ice in other photos, but not in this one.
REPLY: There is ice floating in the water, look carefully. – Anthony
vukcevic (03:08:45) :
From today’s Independent:
“This is the quietest Sun we’ve seen in almost a century,” says NASA solar scientist David Hathaway. But this is not just a scientific curiosity. It could affect everyone on Earth and force what for many is the unthinkable: a reappraisal of the science behind recent global warming.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-missing-sunspots-is-this-the-big-chill-1674630.html
The Independent article article mentions that a .01 change in sun irradiance equals 1.3 watts pr meter squared of energy, yet the Goddard Institute for Space Studies states that greenhouse gasses only cause an increase of energy of .035 watts per meter squared. http//data.giss.nasa.gov.gisstemp.2008
Wow! 1.3 versus .035. that means that the sun has 1.3/.035=35 times the global warming potential as all of the permanent greenhouse gasses put together.
The Meeting of May 18th,1987 would make a great T-shirt-with say,Global Warming!
23 years before Gore? then under it the Skate, and Ok, 50 years BFG…
Just a minor weather report.Had a nice spring day in NE Oregon,went to Pasco Wa.
it was in the 60’s/well off the hot temps of last week.-Snow is in the forcast…
After I and my wife bought all these plants…
oops, I goofed up that link to GISS
http://data.giss.nasa.gov/gistemp/2008/
Look for the third paragraph below the heading for figure 4, the graph of solar irradiance.
Pathetic that their models are not showing this… how inconvenient!
Hmm, sounds though a submarine couldn’t rescue the Catlin crew.