This short personal essay from “farmer Steve” in North Dakota appeared as a comment on WUWT here. I thought it was a succinct and clear message based on personal experience and values, and thus worth sharing. I’ve made some formatting changes to make it easier to read, otherwise it is exactly as he posted his comment. For background on the North Dakota carbon credit program extended to farmers and ranchers, see this, this, and the program home page. Anyone who wishes to repost this essay has my permission to do so. – Anthony
Carbon Credits
I have changed my mind about participating in the carbon credit program. And have resolved to give the money I received to St Jude’s Children’s Hospital.
Here is why.
Recently I sat in the fire hall with a few dozen farmers. We had been invited to hear how we can get paid for carbon credits.
The speaker explained how their satellites can measure the carbon in our land individually and how much money we could get. Then asked for questions.
I asked “what is the source of this money”?
The presenter said it comes from big companies that pollute.
I asked “where do they get this money”? He had no answer.
So I answered for him, asking, “won’t it come from everyone who pays their power bill”? He then agreed and said “that could be”.
I then said isn’t this about the theory of man made global warming? he said “we are not going to talk about that”. Here they are on the prairie soliciting land for carbon credits tempting us with free money.
I believe that agreeing to take their money means you agree with taxing cattle gas also, because methane is a greenhouse gas 20 times more powerful than carbon. I believe taking this money without considering its source makes us no better than the bankers who lent money to people, knowing they could not pay it back. Collecting their fees then selling the bad loans in bundles to someone else. They did not care where the money came from either.
Let’s be clear.
Carbon is not a new commodity! No new wealth is being created here! Is this the way we want to make a living? Let me ask you, what if their satellites determine that your land has lost carbon? You will get a bill, not a check, right? If you make a tillage pass you will get a bill for emitting carbon, is this not correct?
It is also a fact that this income will, in short order, get built into your land cost. You will keep very little and be left with the burden of another bureaucratic program.
Let’s be honest, we feel compelled to take this money because of the need to be competitive, however we also need to hold true to our values and lead by example that means placing our principals ahead of money.
No good citizen is opposed to using the earth’s resources wisely, however, wisdom means a person who has both intelligence and humility. In my view many of the proponents of man made global warming have the first and lack the second. We are able to exercise our freedom in this country because we have abundant, reliable and affordable power. It is ironic that we sat in front of the flag in that fire hall and considered trading our liberty for money.
I’ll leave you with a quote from Roy Disney:
“Decision making becomes easier when your values are clear to you”
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good message for easter holidays. honesty in the eve of self destruction.
Those speculators do not produce anything but they just “pour the empty into the void”, and in between both extremes they make a profit, out of nothing!.
Who pays the “spread”? you and me.
Another argument to get rid of carbon trade:
Cap-and-tax = wealth redistribution, no emissions reduction
“Maryland will take $70 million it receives by charging utilities for carbon emissions to help low- income residents pay power bills, breaking with neighboring states that [claim they] will use the revenue to lower energy use.
The state’s legislature is expected to approve a budget by April 13 that will divert spending on energy-efficiency projects to rebates. The move proposed by Maryland Governor Martin O’Malley will make it more costly to fight climate change with a “cap-and-trade” emissions market, said Brad Heavner, state director for Environment Maryland, a non-profit advocacy group. …
“It’s incredibly shortsighted,” he said in an interview. “We need to make sure that the bulk of the money is used for energy-efficiency programs. If it isn’t, then cap-and-trade doesn’t function very well.”
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601072&sid=a8bexzu4eOzo&refer=energy
Don’t you get sick and tired of all those extremely reliable and well educated non greedy politicians eager to fight non existing problems with your money?
Doubtville (10:08:00) : “. . . utopia fails because those with knowledge and ability quit society.”
This is already being observed. A WSJ article mentioned it a few weeks ago. Forward thinking folks with skill and entrepreneurship have started thinking about protecting their families – less about creating businesses, jobs, and wealth that will contribute to a general well being. Just as high income folks move out of places with high taxes so too will people change their behavior. The government won’t get all the money they are expecting from such schemes and will search for another. While the guiding principle is to “spread the wealth around” the ultimate result will be almost everyone will be relatively less well off, and there will be less possibilities of upward economic movement.
This wonderful new world order is being stealthily introduced under the agenda of saving Earth from catastrophic human-induced warming. As this last is nonsense it is clear the purpose of these actions is an all-controlling government.
My query to North Dakota wheat farmers and all others who are paid to be less productive and contributory to economic activity is “What do you do now?” AND “Will this be an incentive or a disincentive to a new generation of farmers/builders/workers?”
It looks like the North Dakota Farmer’s Union takes 10% of the carbon credit dollars. $260,00.00 may not seem like much now, but wait ’til they get EVERYBODY signed up.
Then the fun and games begin… Farmer Jones did you see this latest CO2 report on your property? Also according to the county health department it appears that the septic system on your farm just isn’t up to snuff, it looks like the extra methane escaping is going to set your account back a little… Did you know that your daughter ordered pizza to be delivered to the farm last thursday? Do you know how energy intensive it is to deliver that pizza almost seventeen miles?? Both ways? Oh by the way since we now have the government databases all tied together you might as well let me put those equipment registration fees, you’re excess mileage charges and you’re overdue library book charges on the credit card we have on file for you…
By the way, as you know, you’re neighbor Farmer Smith is grazing 40 head of cattle in that back pasture of yours, so naturally you are responsible for part of the methane debit over there.
Farmer Jones, thank you for your kind attention today, and remember we are here to help you! 🙂
PS We’ll also automatically deduct the dues and the 10% finder’s fee and send that directly to your union.
Why you must buy carbon credits for the good of your soul:
Watch Peter Huber’s summing-up in his IQ2 Debate, Major Reductions in Carbon Emissions are Not Worth the Money.
Scroll to about 6:20 seconds.
There are other indicators that bear proof of the fact that people don’t buy the Government’s “Green Dreams”:
The SUV is dead, long live the SUV (11 out of 20 cars currently bought in the USA are SUV’s)
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30137436/
JN (09:20:06) :
Howarth (08:39:51) :
I own two cows and a goat on three acres of property. Do I get money for the grass on the property or a bill for the cows and goat?
Yes
But you can expect the balance of the payments and bills to change as new ‘science’ is commissioned to make sure the federal budget is balanced in the big boy’s favour.
The commoditisation of science is the aim of the controlling plutocracy. It will lend legitimacy to their scheme to control ever more aspects of our lives.
If we let them.
I always found it ironic that Rand the capitalist and Orwell the socialist both saw the danger from collectivist control.
I wonder how many “carbon offsets” NASA will need to buy to offset the creation, launch and operation of those Big Brother satellites.
Jeff Alberts,
It sounds like Farmer Steve will no longer participate in the program and will donate the carbon credit money that he has already received.
He said, “I have changed my mind about participating (he will no longer participate) in the carbon credit program. And have resolved to give the money I (already received when I WAS participating) received to St Jude’s Children’s Hospital.”
Does that sound about right?
Fantastic man you are Steve.
Let’s see if any of those public figures, celebrities and politicians have the virtues to stand up for what’s right instead of sugar coating their pockets.
A lady with attitude {from the left side of the aisle no less!} summed up the situation we face right now so very well with all this government ‘help’:
“The power to do things for you is the power to do things to you.” Dorothy Parker (August 22, 1893–June 7, 1967)
More on this, for those who feel like they’ve fallen down the rabbit hole.
Farmers cashing in on carbon credits
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/29510634.html
No-till farms qualify
In the midwest you agree to a certain type of farming pratice. No till or minimum tillage or converting pasture to crop land. Then a set of formulas determine how much carbon is sequestered each year. The amount you sequester is then grouped with other farmers untill the person selling the program has enough carbon to sell the contract in chicago.
The problem I have is you agree to a certain farming pratice for a set number of years and this change involves costs to the farmer. Whether it is new equipment or different cultural pratices. The promised return is “pie in the sky” there is no locked in return because the carbon credits could be worthless or very valuable. This type of program is especially nasty if your required to agree to invest money and time for a five year period with no guaranteed return.
Farmer meetings are held every where. School class rooms, church basements, VFW halls anywhere there is a room in a rural area. They are put on by seed companies, fertilizer companies , and extension specialists. And they do not mind telling the person putting the meeting on that his/her ideas a very foolish. In fact they delight in exposing any lies of the presenter.
Sorry, out of topic but… Have you read this News at NAS?
http://www8.nationalacademies.org/onpinews/newsitem.aspx?RecordID=20090408
Richard Alley’s assertion, “It is easy to understand: when CO2 is high, ice is low. When CO2 is low, ice is high. CO2 does bring warming”, is misguided.
The real thing is as follows: When ice is high, CO2 is low. When ice is low, CO2 is high. Warming does bring CO2. From this graph, warm periods precede rises of sea level, and warm oceans lead to increases of CO2, not the opposite:
http://biocab.org/Geological_TS_SL_and_CO2.jpg
Warmer oceans release more CO2 to the atmosphere.
Farmer Steve for President!
He has more common sense than John McCain and Barrack Obama put together!
Steamboat Jack
Only on the surface are these schemes promoted in the name of some higher good. Peal away that top layer and you will find a greedy control minded government. If their scheme actually works – in this case to reduce GHGs – the money would no longer be coming in. [How do I bold this last clause?]
Consider the case of the November 1998 tobacco deal
“the money was supposed to help pay for health care and anti-smoking campaigns. Instead, much of it — even payments that aren’t due for 20 years — has already been spent on politically popular tax breaks through complicated borrowing schemes initiated by Wall Street investment banks. Because these states have essentially borrowed against future payments from the tobacco industry, they are now dependent on the continued vitality of cigarette sales.”
http://redtape.msnbc.com/2008/11/ten-years-later.html
What makes anyone think cap&trade and related schemes are any different?
I wonder if farmer Steve would agree with this: click
I grew up in corn country, and in hot weather you can hear the cornstalks growing.
I think he looks like that also.
I heard a similar story from an Aussie farmer.
He had grown rows of trees as a wind break and a guy calling himself a carbon trader turned up and told him he could get carbon credits for the carbon the trees were capturing. It turned out he got around $800 for the credits which covered his costs, so the farmer was happy. The trader took a percentage.
The trader then onsold the credits to a power company that burnt coal – the trader took a second percentage.
The power company would pass the cost on to the public.
You can see who benefits.
Farmer Steve, may your tribe increase! That was magnificent.
John F. Hultquist (12:38:43):
… – the money would no longer be coming in. [How do I bold this last clause?]
Before your text, type a left arrow “, no interspaced. Then write your text “the money would no longer be coming in. Then, after your text, type a left arrow “”. For example:
the money would no longer be coming in.
Smokey (12:43:44) :
Did you notice in that article that the projected loss is a mere $1.4 billion dollars per year in crop yields? Now that we have become the Obamanation how can they even show their faces in public talking about a measley billion dollars?!? Billions are so last century. Sure there are 100 billion stars in our galaxy, but in order for dollars to be worth talking about the threshold now is a trillion. A billion here and a billion there and soon you’re not even talking about the interest on the latest spending scheme.
One of the oddest things about climate change is that those who have the most to loose from unmitigated climate change and the most to gain by mitigation are often the most sceptical.
>Zero till farmers here in Canada will be able to get carbon credit money…
Zero till makes good sense regardless of climate change – particularly in reducing erosion, on farm costs, moisture retention, soil fertility and increasing yields in droughts.
Oops! something went wrong with my tip:
Before your text, type a left arrow , no interspaced. Then write your text “the money would no longer be coming in”. Then, after your text, type a left arrow