This short personal essay from “farmer Steve” in North Dakota appeared as a comment on WUWT here. I thought it was a succinct and clear message based on personal experience and values, and thus worth sharing. I’ve made some formatting changes to make it easier to read, otherwise it is exactly as he posted his comment. For background on the North Dakota carbon credit program extended to farmers and ranchers, see this, this, and the program home page. Anyone who wishes to repost this essay has my permission to do so. – Anthony
Carbon Credits
I have changed my mind about participating in the carbon credit program. And have resolved to give the money I received to St Jude’s Children’s Hospital.
Here is why.
Recently I sat in the fire hall with a few dozen farmers. We had been invited to hear how we can get paid for carbon credits.
The speaker explained how their satellites can measure the carbon in our land individually and how much money we could get. Then asked for questions.
I asked “what is the source of this money”?
The presenter said it comes from big companies that pollute.
I asked “where do they get this money”? He had no answer.
So I answered for him, asking, “won’t it come from everyone who pays their power bill”? He then agreed and said “that could be”.
I then said isn’t this about the theory of man made global warming? he said “we are not going to talk about that”. Here they are on the prairie soliciting land for carbon credits tempting us with free money.
I believe that agreeing to take their money means you agree with taxing cattle gas also, because methane is a greenhouse gas 20 times more powerful than carbon. I believe taking this money without considering its source makes us no better than the bankers who lent money to people, knowing they could not pay it back. Collecting their fees then selling the bad loans in bundles to someone else. They did not care where the money came from either.
Let’s be clear.
Carbon is not a new commodity! No new wealth is being created here! Is this the way we want to make a living? Let me ask you, what if their satellites determine that your land has lost carbon? You will get a bill, not a check, right? If you make a tillage pass you will get a bill for emitting carbon, is this not correct?
It is also a fact that this income will, in short order, get built into your land cost. You will keep very little and be left with the burden of another bureaucratic program.
Let’s be honest, we feel compelled to take this money because of the need to be competitive, however we also need to hold true to our values and lead by example that means placing our principals ahead of money.
No good citizen is opposed to using the earth’s resources wisely, however, wisdom means a person who has both intelligence and humility. In my view many of the proponents of man made global warming have the first and lack the second. We are able to exercise our freedom in this country because we have abundant, reliable and affordable power. It is ironic that we sat in front of the flag in that fire hall and considered trading our liberty for money.
I’ll leave you with a quote from Roy Disney:
“Decision making becomes easier when your values are clear to you”
This is doubtless a sinister conspiracy. In the recent european and latin american countries summit (ALCUE), held in Lima city last year, it was being introduced in the final text of the declaration a sentence where the signees were going to accept that the Amazon jungle it was a property of “mankind”. This was fortunately observed and rejected by Brazil.
All I can add is “Farmer Steve” shouldn’t expect to be invited to the White House or Al Gore’s house anytime soon!
I’d like to see Farmer Steve and James Hansen trade jobs for a year. My guess is GISS would be run better and the farm would suffer based merely on what I’ve observed from the comments of both. Humility when seasoned with common sense beats intelligence every day of the week.
BTW, this technique employed by the anonymous speaker is the way organized crime works. They get you involved with their schemes under veiled threats to your livelihood and then you’re in too deep to get out.
Here you have the capitalist holy grail, a product that costs nothing to produce giving a 100% return with no outlay, no wonder the money grubbers are loving this latest snake oil scam, they are trading thin air and who pays in the end? the individual consumer of course.
The carbon traders/the UN/governments will make lots of money and that I fear is the prime motivator here, carbon traders stand to rake in billions and the administration costs will be huge, the UN will increase its income stream and power and the governments will make lots in taxes, everybody wins eh? Well not quite everyone, ordinary people will suffer hugely but who cares about them? certainly not the snake oil salesmen thats for sure.
That is one cogent and logically followed argument — well done!
If we continue to allow the government to go in this direction, we will soon be saying “Brondo. It’s what plants crave!”
Thankyou Steve for telling them the truth.
Shawn Whelan (08:55:56) :
“In Ayn Rand famous book, “Atlas Shrugged” the government also controls the science and uses it. She was incredibly accurate in that book. Now we’re living “Atlas Shrugged”.’
Right. It’s the central planning looters who, out of spite and jealousy, confiscate property, business, and income from those who excel. In the end however, their utopia fails because those with knowledge and ability quit society. Leaving behind cold, empty ghost towns where once life thrived.
Perhaps FarmerSteve could identify the “speaker” or the organization which made this gem of an offer. Who knows? They might even be willing to clarify it on WUWT. It would sure be interesting to get the real “science” behind it.
Just to clarify what I think I know: aren’t growing crops – corn especially – a sponge for atmospheric carbon?
It looks an awful lot like the industries and individuals enmeshed in this “carbon credit” business are going to be the next “credit default swap” victims – and on a similar economic scale.
Still it’s being pitched left and right, fuzzy science and all, notwithstanding its outcomes in several European countries, where they found that the most “shovel-ready” aspect of swapping “carbon” for any kind of “credits” is the potential for fraud.
Standing in the middle of a field of corn, it may seem like you’re at sea. But if someone offers to chucka trillion dollar life preserver at you – best duck!
Kudos to Farmer Steve.
Just an add on thought for the above post.
The parasite class not content with tapping a vein for sustanence have invented a way to tap into a major artery, how long before they bleed the wealth creating body to death?
Congratulations, Farmer Steve! Yours is an example so that others follow your path. As someone did suggest it in WUWT, we must have an ethical or moral oath for scientists, though an unmovable ethics like yours is sown during the childhood at the family nest.
If this is too long snip it…
The following is an article that appeared in the book, Welcome to Hovezi, 1504-2004. The book was originally published in the Czech Republic in the Czech language and was translated and republished by the Texas Czech Genealogical Society. The following excerpt is found on pages 168-169 of the English translation.
Wallachian People Want to Know the Truth
Trying to get the most votes, the statement above was the motto the Communists came up with on Tuesday, May 14, 1946, at Horni Vsacko. The featured speaker was nobody else but Catholic priest, Father Bohus Cernocky, the Slatina in Silesia. It was understood that in an area with a high number of Catholics, the meeting would attract attention. Comrade (Father)Cernocky was accompanied by Comrade Klicha. Both of the were candidates of the UNS. In a stormy environment in front of the community house at Novy Hrozenkov, Cernocky tried to convince the present Christian voters that voting for the Communists was not in disagreement with Catholic faith. Using citations out of the Bible, he condemned rich people and the first republic, which did not have an understanding for the poor. A harsh discussion opened between Cernocky and the local chaplain, Father Dronger, who publicly stated that a God-believing person could not agree with the Communist ideology, which was anti-Christian. Comrade (Father) Cernocky tried to prove the opposite. Both Communist speakers, Kilcha and Cernocky, felt the situation could result with physical contact. They expressed their opinion that the meeting was deliberately put into chaos and most of the people supported their chaplain. (who said)
…Paragraph deleted here…
“The ideals of Christ, in the basic form, are in agreement with the requirements of modern socialism, as they are pursued by the Communist Party.”
There was no doubt that during the election campaign the faithful people trusted Comrade (Father) Cernocky, and they were tricked. It surfaced after the election. The Communists, Klicha and Cernocky were elected into the National parliament with the help of the local Christians. Antonin Surovcak, a local farmer and an honest man, was not elected.
After the Communist uprising in February 1948, Father Bohus Cernocky, advanced in his spiritual career. Unlike his spiritual brothers, who stayed true to the church and the bishops and were persecuted, he became the Provost of the Vysehrad’s Chapter. The good people of Wallachia, as they were called by the Communist weekly paper, Break Through soon realized the truth. Unfortunately, it was too late. The permanently valid saying states: “Before they catch a bird, they talk to it in nice words.” It was true then and is true today as well.
The Czechs, like Vaclav Klaus, know what’s going on because they have seen it all before,
Mike Bryant
Boby Lane: “Businesses are set to make a ton of profits all by offloading the price for the ‘permits’ on to the consumer”
I do not share your view, businesses will be affected alike. This is an issue of International socialism, businesses will be bought by the states for the “welfare” of people of the world, like in Cuba. Of course there will appear a “New Class”, the class of the comissars who will be the only ones to have a good living, again, as in Cuba or North Korea now.
“It has not faded away. On the contrary, with treaty after treaty, with summit after summit, the danger of creating a brave new world of a post-democratic European supranationalist entity is getting more and more acute.”
Vaclav klaus
http://www.klaus.cz/klaus2/asp/clanek.asp?id=73lC09VpjtyZ
Farmer Steve’s discussion about the wisdom (or lack thereof) of leading AGW advocates reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.” – C. S. Lewis
Understand that the US ethanol program is a wealth transfer program from urban and suburban people to (certain) farmers. More importantly, to farm states, whose citizens reelect politicians who keep the gravy train running. Now, we have another siphoning of money from the coasts to the mid-west and plains states. There is no more rationale for the ethanol scam than there is for this one, but it keeps politicians in office, so we pay the price. And our representatives – from urban states – won’t say a peep because both parties are afraid to lose seats in the House and Senate. So we – the vast majority of citizens – get screwed and have no redress. So much for democracy.
Unfortunately I’m not buying the “Farmer Steve” thing.
While I agree with the sentiment, where’s the proof that this meeting actually took place and they things said were actually said? An anonymous post on a blog isn’t very convincing to me.
REPLY: See this article on the ND carbon credits extended to farmers and ranchers:
http://www.publicnewsservice.org/index.php?/content/article/5803-1
If you’ve ever lived in the Midwest (I have), the “meeting at the fire hall” is exactly how they would notify farmers/ranchers in the many small towns about the program. – Anthony
It’s a very responsible attitude. I am convinced that it is widespread among the U.S. entrepreneurs and businessmen and it makes the future more optimistic, despite many temptations to act otherwise.
It’s very reasonable for everyone to want to know when the new money being offered are being created. Someone has to pay for them. If it is “just someone whose carbon is seen in the satellite”, you can become a payer, too: the offer is risky for you directly. If it is “everyone”, then the whole system may collapse in the future – and a responsible farmer can’t participate in it, either.
The idea that the “green economy” creates “jobs” etc. is just the rosy and vacuous part of the story. It is easy to create jobs of a generalized color for all the unemployed. Just ask them to sit in their bedroom and pay them money for that. The next question, however, is where the money comes from.
Indeed, the money can come from people who are forced to pay them because they use carbon. But from an economic viewpoint, the job of selling carbon credits (and similar job) is equivalent to the job of sitting in the bedroom. In both cases, the working and carbon-producing communities can pay money to such people. Another question is whether it is a wise thing to do to pay parasites – green or otherwise.
Here is where the money comes from.
My parody of carbon credits as it relates to cattle “emissions” in at my LUN
I own two cows and a goat on three acres of property. Do I get money for the grass on the property or a bill for the cows and goat?
Don’t worry. The government will employ thousands of inspectors to deal with issues exactly like yours. There will also a be a hearing process where you can make claims against unfair carbon assessments and a review board to review and enforce decisions. If you are still not satisfied you can appeal everything to the State Board. All these services will be amply staffed so that you should not lose more than a week or two on the entire appeal process.
Oh – and don’t worry about who will pay for this – they got that figured out too => It’s YOU and all the other taxpayers!
Of course, it might be cheaper just to get rid of your goat.
Re: Jeff Alberts above – agree some substantiation would be good. Take the point about the format of the meeting and can see it was a comment on WUWT but now it’s a headline post I think it needs backing up properly.
REPLY: Thanks for the concern. I added three links to the story to provide background on the carbon credit program extended to farmers and ranchers in North Dakota.
Also here is a link where they say: “We will sponsor public information meetings for farmers on carbon credit after harvest and before spring planting.” The small town hall meeting is the tried and true way of getting the word out in the Midwest. – Anthony
“The speaker explained how their satellites can measure the carbon in our land individually”
Didn’t NASA just punt the satellite you’d need for those measurements, the Orbiting Carbon Observatory, into the Antarctic ocean?
Nice to see “their satellites” work just as well from the bottom of the sea
(Well, I suppose they could get data from the Japanese CO2 measuring sat, but I didn’t think it was high enough resolution)
Lubos Motl (10:58:23) :
“It’s a very responsible attitude. I am convinced that it is widespread among the U.S. entrepreneurs and businessmen and it makes the future more optimistic, despite many temptations to act otherwise.
It’s very reasonable for everyone to want to know when the new money being offered are being created. Someone has to pay for them. If it is “just someone whose carbon is seen in the satellite”, you can become a payer, too: the offer is risky for you directly. If it is “everyone”, then the whole system may collapse in the future – and a responsible farmer can’t participate in it, either.
The idea that the “green economy” creates “jobs” etc. is just the rosy and vacuous part of the story. It is easy to create jobs of a generalized color for all the unemployed. Just ask them to sit in their bedroom and pay them money for that. The next question, however, is where the money comes from.
Indeed, the money can come from people who are forced to pay them because they use carbon. But from an economic viewpoint, the job of selling carbon credits (and similar job) is equivalent to the job of sitting in the bedroom. In both cases, the working and carbon-producing communities can pay money to such people. Another question is whether it is a wise thing to do to pay parasites – green or otherwise”.
Lubos,
It is not the fact that carbon trading creates a new breed of parasites living from the work of others, we have had those among us since the beginning of civilization.
It’s the fact that it will cause “run away Government growth”, new “pump until they burst” bubbles that jeopardize our economies and “Green Shackles” on all of us when greenies will tell us how to live our lives.
This is about our food security, our economy, our way of life and our freedom.
I am extremely grateful for the level of common sense among those who pull our economies and feed the people.
Anthony, I’m not doubting there’s such a program, just doubting how it’s being characterized by this one anonymous post. Are there any farmers out there who can substantiate this characterization? It just seems like an editorial comment made up to exacerbate the situation.
I’d also like to add that whether or not “Farmer Steve” accepts the money or gives it away, it will still be paid by whomever is paying the carbon tax. I guess I’m failing to see how “Farmer Steve’s” solution to donate the money will change the situation.
Anthony, found this at the North Dakota Farmer’s Union about the carbon credit program:
http://carboncredit.ndfu.org/
“Upcoming Events
Event Date Event Name Location
05/07/2009 NFU Carbon Credit Presentation @ur momisugly Wyoming Bankers Annual Agricultural Bankers Conference Historic Bozeman Crossing & Conference Center, 11:15 – 11:45 am
Tony Frank ”
Sounds like they’re getting the bankers on board now, of course they better get aboard or they’ll be fired. Most of them will be out of work anyway when the government takes over in earnest… might as well fight it…