ICCC conference 2009 – Day 2

conference-day-2-121

Above: At left – Myself, James O’Brien from FSU, and Steve McIntyre at podium. Photo by Evan Jones

This morning’s breakfast program featured congressman Tom McClintock of California. He quipped:

“I was the first to discover global warming during a grade school trip to a natural history museum, where I deduced dinosaurs were destroyed by warming temperatures.” Unfortunately, he said, Miss Conroy, his elementary school teacher, failed to nominate him for a Nobel Prize, “so instead of jetting around the world in a fleet of Gulfstream Fives to tell people they need to feel guilty about driving to work, I have to take the subway. And I don’t get paid $100,000 a speech for my original discovery. But then again, I don’t have Al Gore’s electricity bills either, so I guess it all balances out.”

NASA’s only geologist to walk the moon, Harrison “Jack” Schmidt gave the noon presentation today. I hope to have the text of his speech posted here soon.

Also today I made my presentation on the surfacestations.org project at 4PM, and sat on the panel with Steve McIntyre whose presentation immediately followed me.  Both were well received, Steve is now off to Thailand.

I spoke with a number of people today, including Richard Lindzen, who had encouraging words and we exchanged some good ideas. I’ll have more on that later. It’s now midnight, I’m exhausted and have another day tomorrow plus a flight back to California.

Professor Bob Carter is doing a better job than I am in blogging, (he apparently has more time)  so I’ll post his report again below.

by Bob Carter

March 8, 2009

Currently, visitors from outside USA who happen to turn their TVs to one of the 24-hours news channels are astonished – or at least, I was – at the vehement hostility of right-wing commentators to the new Obama administration. This hostility has spread even to some Democrats, who were instrumental in helping to defer Mr Obama’s $410 billion financial rescue package when it was approaching the vote in Congress on Thursday.

The reason is that attached to the bill are more than 6,000, mostly small, spending earmarks (US lingo for tailored, pork-barrel voting inducements), summing to about $7 billion, each one of which is in the interest of particular members or Senators. Earmarking has a long history in the US legislature, but its efflorescent continuation against the financial crisis, and the associated announcement today of 8.1% US unemployment, does not look good given that President Obama gave a campaign pledge to close the practice down.

It is accepted that any new head-of-state deserves a honeymoon period, but Barack Obama may already be close to exhausting his. This is partly because of the unfulfillable expectations that his campaign rhetoric aroused, partly because of the sheer size of the urgent problems that confronted him, and partly because of the polarizing nature of some of the key appointments he has made to his administration. This is particularly true in the environmental area and associated portfolios, where he has appointed John Holdren as Science Adviser, Stephen Chu as Secretary of Energy, Carol Browner (former EPA head) in the new position of Energy Co-ordinator and Lisa Jackson as Administrator of the EPA.

However distinguished the careers of these persons, their public record on the key environmental issues of the day is not one of balance – and especially not regarding global warming. One wonders whether a senior representative of the Obama climate team will pitch up at the Heartland conference, for it is very clear that his administration would benefit from an injection of reality on the issue.

Against this background – and the dependence of President Obama on revenue from a carbon dioxide cap and trade bill to meet his aim of halving the US deficit in the four years 2012-2016 – travellers from around the world are today converging on the Mariott Marquis in Times Square, where the Heartland Institute is hosting its second Manhatten conference on climate change.

Accordingly, press and blog comment is starting to stir. Fascinatingly, two of the first cabs off the rank give diametrically opposed views of the conference.

Writing in the Canadian National Post, Peter Foster summarises the IPCC claim that the climate is at a crisis point, with human carbon dioxide emissions the main culprit, then commenting:

The Heartland conference will present papers suggesting that such views are at best simplistic and at worst downright wrong. It will also feature bold voices who stress the political nature of the climate change bandwagon, and its success in closing down debate as it threatens already foundering global prosperity. These include Vaclav Kraus, president of the Czech Republic and of the European Union.

Meanwhile, over at Grist, Coby Beck adopts the long-favoured technique of ad hominem attack in an attempt to discredit the Heartland-2 event. In a vicious example of the polemic art, Mr Beck manages to denigrate Roy Spencer, Dick Lindzen, Bill Gray, Willie Soon, Arthur Robinson, Stephen McIntyre, Jack Schmidt, Christopher Monckton and Lawrence Solomon – fine intellects, one and all – summarily dismissing them, and others, with the sneering comment:

Hardly ‘the world’s elite scientists specializing in climate issues.’ In fact, none of these experts is a trained climate scientist. In the community of actual experts, the consensus is:

  • The earth is rapidly warming (over 0.6 deg. C in the last century)

  • Human activities are the primary cause

  • Warming will continue and accelerate if greenhouse gas emissions continue unabated.

Can this be the same group of people who Peter Harris characterizes as:

I’ll be thinking about that [climate change as the new state religion] every time I look out of my window over the next couple of days, grateful that there are intellectual lights still shining inside the building, and at least some voices speaking up for intellectual freedom and scientific objectivity.

Though it received little press coverage at the time, last year’s Heartland-1 conference resulted in the striking Manhatten Declaration on Climate Change, which commented, inter alia:

That current plans to restrict anthropogenic CO2 emissions are a dangerous misallocation of intellectual capital and resources that should be dedicated to solving humanity’s real and serious problems.

That there is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change.

That attempts by governments to inflict taxes and costly regulations on industry and individual citizens with the aim of reducing emissions of CO2 will pointlessly curtail the prosperity of the West and progress of developing nations without affecting climate.

The Heartland-2 event obviously has a hard act to follow.

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Pamela Gray
March 9, 2009 8:51 pm

Does this mean that at the end of the day tomorrow, I get to crack open my 6-pack of CO2 chilling in the frig? But on a serious note, there are folks at this convention that could form that review panel. It seems worthwhile to at least give it a first crack at considering it with all you folks sitting together in one room.
Here is the web site again as a model review panel
http://ies.ed.gov/ncee/wwc/

Gordebacle
March 9, 2009 8:52 pm

“But then again, I don’t have Al Gore’s electricity bills either, so I guess it all balances out.”

Graeme Rodaughan
March 9, 2009 8:52 pm


[1] the dependence of President Obama on revenue from a carbon dioxide cap and trade bill to meet his aim of halving the US deficit in the four years 2012-2016, and
[2] That attempts by governments to inflict taxes and costly regulations on industry and individual citizens with the aim of reducing emissions of CO2 will pointlessly curtail the prosperity of the West and progress of developing nations without affecting climate.

The horse of the US Economy is already on it’s knees, taking a gun to its head (CO2 Cap & Trade) before flogging it for taxes just doesn’t make any sense.
Even if you believe in Catastrophic AGW – given the failed track record of CAP and Trade with Kyoto in reducing CO2 – this has too be the wrong move.

savethesharks
March 9, 2009 8:53 pm

“Meanwhile, over at Grist, Coby Beck adopts the long-favoured technique of ad hominem attack in an attempt to discredit the Heartland-2 event. In a vicious example of the polemic art, Mr Beck manages to denigrate Roy Spencer, Dick Lindzen, Bill Gray, Willie Soon, Arthur Robinson, Stephen McIntyre, Jack Schmidt, Christopher Monckton and Lawrence Solomon – fine intellects, one and all – summarily dismissing them, and others, with the sneering comment:
Hardly ‘the world’s elite scientists specializing in climate issues.’ In fact, none of these experts is a trained climate scientist. In the community of actual experts, the consensus is:”
BIZARRE ILLOGICAL AND SELF-DAMIMG WORDS

REPLY:
It is of no consequence now, Grist’s website is broken and now is unable to serve the story anyway. – Anthony
Most people of reasonable discourse ignore the ad hominems and dismiss them and MOVE ON!!

John F. Hultquist
March 9, 2009 9:00 pm

Thank you folks for reporting on this. It is only just now approaching 10 PM where I am and most everything else is old news. Including one of the morning headlines on the BBC: “A meeting of scientists in the Danish capital Copenhagen is expected to reveal further worrying data on global warming.”
Nothing about the NYC-Heartland Conf. What a surprise.

John F. Hultquist
March 9, 2009 9:08 pm

I just went and read that BBC Copenhagen story. It makes me feel as though I’ve been slammed hard into a space/time warp. The claim is they are going to fix the less than desired sea level rise in the last UN report. Say, what?

Graeme Rodaughan
March 9, 2009 9:12 pm

John F. Hultquist (21:00:15) :
Thank you folks for reporting on this. It is only just now approaching 10 PM where I am and most everything else is old news. Including one of the morning headlines on the BBC: “A meeting of scientists in the Danish capital Copenhagen is expected to reveal further worrying data on global warming.”
Nothing about the NYC-Heartland Conf. What a surprise.

The BBC expects further worrying data on global warming – could it ever be otherwise?
Purveyors of fear.

KimW
March 9, 2009 9:31 pm

Further to the above – on the BBC site 0218GMT Tue 10 March – is the following,
“For the scientists gathering in the Danish capital, this meeting is about removing as much wriggle room as possible from the political negotiations on a new global climate treaty taking place in December.
While the IPCC reports of 2007 were praised for their recognition of the causes of global warming, the slow, consensus-based nature of the process, meant more recent data was not included.
But with this meeting taking place outside the IPCC, it means it will have the very latest estimates, and the scientists will have no need to agree every word with the political masters.
This unfettered atmosphere is likely to produce greater clarity about the scale of some very worrying trends, especially sea level rise. The IPCC was widely criticised for stating that sea level rise this century would only amount to 59cm (23in). The most recent data, to be presented here, will suggest a far higher figure with dramatic implications for many island nations and coastal regions.
The meeting is being organised by the University of Copenhagen. Its prorector Lykke Friis said the scientists would be presenting the latest and the clearest information, meaning political leaders would not have the excuse that they needed more research before agreeing on a deal. As well as hearing from scientists, the meeting will also look at the social and economic impacts of the global rise in temperatures. ”
While I can see that this was written by a reporter, it implies that the extremist ( the 3 sigma end of the Normal Probability Curve) climate believers opinions grabbed the reporters imagination. I was very lucky that my inital bachelors in Geology in the 60’s was overseen by Prof Harold Wellman, a scientist who refused to let opinion override facts. I live in NZ, where this worrying rise in average temperatures can be duplicated by moving North a 100km or so or simply selecting a suitable microclimate. I await the end of conference press release with interest.

Manfred
March 9, 2009 10:51 pm

the ipcc projected a sea level rise between 0.18-0.59m and not just the maximum of this range.
the bbc now appears to falsify facts, that every reader could google in a few seconds.
they don’t allow public user comments, and people will be taxed whatever they produce, so why care about something outdated like facts or truth ?

eo
March 9, 2009 11:44 pm

Consider of the case of well established scientific laws and facts of nature such as Newton’s Laws of motion. It has been repeated, verified and applied a million times. However, there are some phenomena that could not be aptly described by Newton’s law such as the behavior of light and gravity. Rather than spending millions to research and model Newton’s law one more time, money is spent on the alternative theories and expand man’s knowledge.
Climate science stands on a ground less solid than Newton’s laws of motion. There are a number of “ifs” “buts” “unreplicated analysis” “questionable analysis”, etc. However, if consensus is on climate change, then additional reseach funding should go into the alternative theories such that if there is a mistake it will not be a costly mistake. It would be worthwhile if the Obama administration will refocus its scientific budget to carry out researches on the questions raised at the IPCC to either silence the global warming critique once and for all that they theory is wrong or to fill the gap of the existing knowledge. After there is more or less a common appreciation of the human impacts on this planet. The biggest question is whether the decarbonization of civilization is the right path and there are lots of gaps in the scientific knowledge that what we have is a “consensus” a political rather than a scientific term–much weaker than the scientific verification of Newton;s law.
There is only one problem of swifting the research budget and priorities to filling the gaps in scientific knowledge. A large number of “scientists” may just shift to the “skeptics” side to avail of the research grants .

Chris Schoneveld
March 9, 2009 11:59 pm

Bob, can you stop putting down Obama (give him a break, at least he reversed Bush’s anti-science policies and other stupidities) and report on the scientific content of the lectures/speeches, please?

E.M.Smith
Editor
March 10, 2009 12:14 am

Don’t worry about volume of blog material while you are on the road. I’m still trying to make it through the last batch! (Plus comments, it takes more time than there are hours in the day to get through it all…)
FWIW, I’m still waiting for some indication that there has been a real rise of sea level anywhere. Some of the Pacific islands that are on a flexing bucking plate are suffering some water rise (or should I say land drop) but take a look at pictures of New York harbor (or dozens of others) and you don’t exactly see the sea flooding into the underground rail system… The tide gauges are not exactly reporting doom and a new Atlantis! (How about a Global Tide Guage metric of total world ocean level?)
Obama, Gore, et. al. have the same problem / disease. They have no moral compass. Everything is about finding a ridable cause and riding it to glory. The problem with this is that the ride can be straight down… and they will take their followers with them when they go.
I suspect we need to define a new disease: Messiah by Proxy Syndrome. The followers of these folks want to feel like they matter. They want to have merit by proxy. If I support the messiah, then I am in some small way a messiah myself, by proxy. But what happens when the Messiah “has issues”? The MPS sufferer “has issues” too… though I would assert that the issues are out of proportion. So we end up with a minor disappointment in what the Messiah delivers (v.s. the self image of the MPS sufferer) and it leads to a collapse of the personal MPS image. And a backlash…
So Obama doesn’t pull 100% of U.S. troops out of Iraq on day one; the fanatical pacifist has a tarnish on their MPS self image. He doesn’t stop 6000 earmarks ( hmmm 600 ish congress critters… 10 earmarks per head? More for Democrats?) $7,000 M / 6000 ~= $1 Million/earmark or $10 MILLION PER CONGRESS CRITTER with more for Democrats?! Not bad for a weak of “work”…) and the “new way, change, fresh start” folks take a body blow to their MPS virtue…
It’s very hard when you hand your self worth over to someone else and they don’t care for it very well… What’s a ‘Messiah Wanna Be’ to do!

Manfred
March 10, 2009 12:18 am

“…There are many reasons for being confident of this. However, we have just gone over one of the most important scientific reasons. The satellite records of outgoing heat radiation show that the climate is dominated by negative feedbacks and that the response to doubled and even quadrupled CO2 would be minimal. IN A FIELD AS PRIMITIVE AS CLMATE SCIENCE, most of the alleged climate scientists are not even aware of this basic relation. And these days, one can be confident that once they are, many will, in fact, try to alter the data. Under the circumstances, it is not surprising that the public is not likely to understand this as well… ”
http://www.heartland.org/full/24841/Climate_Alarm_What_We_Are_Up_Against_and_What_to_Do.html
where else could theinventors of horror-predictions make a scientific career, except in such a primitive disciplin like climate science ?

March 10, 2009 12:23 am

[I don’t give a damn whom that was aimed at. It has no place here. ~ Evan]

E.M.Smith
Editor
March 10, 2009 12:33 am

Golly, the world surprises you sometimes. I was doing my USGS check before bedtime and found a tiny-tim quake near Chico (almost on top of Colusa). I’d have not thought it possible (well, maybe possible. You can have a quake anywhere; but highly unlikely!) It’s a 2.1 so I would not have felt it if I was standing on top of it when it went (I’ve sometimes not noticed 4+ events … I’m getting jaded about anything less than a 5…) But still, this is a part of the state that just doesn’t DO quakes!
Maybe Chico will ‘get some action’?!
A look at the USGS map gives you an idea how little action there is around this spot:
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/38.40.-123.-121.php
From: http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Quakes/nc40232964.php
Magnitude 2.1
Date-Time
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 at 07:05:21 UTC
Tuesday, March 10, 2009 at 12:05:21 AM at epicenter
Time of Earthquake in other Time Zones
Location
39.483°N, 122.026°W
Depth
25.1 km (15.6 miles)
Region
NORTHERN CALIFORNIA
Distances
15 km (10 miles) ESE (106°) from Willows, CA
26 km (16 miles) SW (228°) from Durham, CA
28 km (18 miles) WNW (286°) from Biggs, CA
33 km (20 miles) SSW (210°) from Chico, CA
114 km (71 miles) NNW (335°) from Sacramento, CA
Location Uncertainty
horizontal +/- 1.4 km (0.9 miles); depth +/- 2.3 km (1.4 miles)
Parameters
NST= 18, Nph= 18, Dmin=28 km, Rmss=0.1 sec, Gp=176°,
M-type=duration magnitude (Md), Version=1
Source
California Integrated Seismic Net: USGS Caltech CGS UCB UCSD UNR
Event ID nc40232964
This is a computer-generated message — this event has not yet been reviewed by a seismologist.

Harold Pierce Jr
March 10, 2009 12:38 am

The folks at the BBC should read, “Climate Change and Global Warming” by A. Marterman vailable at:
http://www.usefulinfo.co.uk/climate_change_global_warming.php
Mr Materman analyzed the CET on a month-by-month basis at 30 years intervals and found that for most months there has been no significant change in Tmean for 300 years except for the fall months which showed a slight warming trend.
I can’ t imagine that the boys in the Met Office are completely unaware of his work.. What would be the results and conclusions if all weather station records were analyzed by his method?

John Wright
March 10, 2009 12:40 am

But I thought the NYC—Heartland conference was cancelled – see http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/ (I’d like to know why).

March 10, 2009 12:52 am

Was Bob C actually there? I can’t see any reference to the day’s proceedings.

Pierre Gosselin
March 10, 2009 1:00 am

The press releases have been few and far apart – unfortunately. I’m hoping to hear more in the media soon like FOX, WSJ, NY Post, News Busters, IBD, Drudge, and the other organisations soon.
So lads, let’s get them press releases out there!

Harold Pierce Jr
March 10, 2009 1:05 am

ATTN: Everyone
An English translation of “Cyclic Climate Changes and Fish Productivity” by
L.B. Klyasthorin and A.A. Lyubushin is now available at:
http://alexylyubushin.narod.ru/climate_changes_and_Fish_Productivity.pdf?
I surprised to learn that the fish guys have discovered and have been investigating these long-term ocean oscillations for quite some time.

March 10, 2009 1:07 am

Meanwhile we get Prince Charles wittering on about how we only have 100 months to save the world…
I’ve also noticed, in my layman’s capacity, that the warmists appear to be escalating their second front – ocean acidity. Given Joe Public’s confusion over AGW just think how confused they’ll be about ocean acidity and how it’s just going to kill off all the plankton, scallops and fish if we don’t prevent it right now.
Perhaps someone should point out, before this gets out of hand, that during the first half of the Tertiary CO2 was far higher than it is today and the seas teemed with life.

Don Shaw
March 10, 2009 1:16 am

Since Obama and all his advisors believe in AGW, his energy/tax plan includes measures that will singnificantly increas our dependence on foreign oil . Wish his people would have attended the Conference and got some facts instead of the phoney AGW science.
Because of mis-information and obsession with CO2, Obama’s proposed budget would repeal incentives for US oil and gas production and drive new exploration and drilling to foreign countries.
And this despite the fact that:
“Royalties collected from the US oil and gas industry already account for the federal treasury’s second-largest income stream… Less domestic oil and gas production would also immediately reduce federal and state governments’ income… Talk about killing the goose that lays the golden egg!!
For details go to:
http://www.ogj.com/display_article/354653/120/ARTCL/none/GenIn/1/Obama's-proposed-budget-would-repeal-oil,-gas-tax-breaks/
All this because CO2 is deemed a pollutant!!

March 10, 2009 1:42 am

I understand the US has something called mid term elections. If Obama continues along his chosen path and people find they are paying through their noses for his eco-policies – it’s beginning to cost us Brits the earth (sic) – then maybe he’ll get an honest to goodness shock in a couple of years time. Let’s hope that the damage he’s inflicting on the US can be overturned. Let’s hope the damage being inflicted on the UK and Europe can be halted too. I’m hoping the recession will reign some of it in.
Sigh…

Norm in the Hawkesbury
March 10, 2009 1:57 am

Harold Pierce Jr (01:05:08) :
Your link gives me a 404 error
http://lyubushin.hotbox.ru/Index.htm
Has all his papers plus the one you state in your link

Norm in the Hawkesbury
March 10, 2009 1:59 am

Ah, now I see –
http://alexeylyubushin.narod.ru/Climate_Changes_and_Fish_Productivity.pdf
You need capitals for the original link

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