ICCC conference 2009 – Day 2

conference-day-2-121

Above: At left – Myself, James O’Brien from FSU, and Steve McIntyre at podium. Photo by Evan Jones

This morning’s breakfast program featured congressman Tom McClintock of California. He quipped:

“I was the first to discover global warming during a grade school trip to a natural history museum, where I deduced dinosaurs were destroyed by warming temperatures.” Unfortunately, he said, Miss Conroy, his elementary school teacher, failed to nominate him for a Nobel Prize, “so instead of jetting around the world in a fleet of Gulfstream Fives to tell people they need to feel guilty about driving to work, I have to take the subway. And I don’t get paid $100,000 a speech for my original discovery. But then again, I don’t have Al Gore’s electricity bills either, so I guess it all balances out.”

NASA’s only geologist to walk the moon, Harrison “Jack” Schmidt gave the noon presentation today. I hope to have the text of his speech posted here soon.

Also today I made my presentation on the surfacestations.org project at 4PM, and sat on the panel with Steve McIntyre whose presentation immediately followed me.  Both were well received, Steve is now off to Thailand.

I spoke with a number of people today, including Richard Lindzen, who had encouraging words and we exchanged some good ideas. I’ll have more on that later. It’s now midnight, I’m exhausted and have another day tomorrow plus a flight back to California.

Professor Bob Carter is doing a better job than I am in blogging, (he apparently has more time)  so I’ll post his report again below.

by Bob Carter

March 8, 2009

Currently, visitors from outside USA who happen to turn their TVs to one of the 24-hours news channels are astonished – or at least, I was – at the vehement hostility of right-wing commentators to the new Obama administration. This hostility has spread even to some Democrats, who were instrumental in helping to defer Mr Obama’s $410 billion financial rescue package when it was approaching the vote in Congress on Thursday.

The reason is that attached to the bill are more than 6,000, mostly small, spending earmarks (US lingo for tailored, pork-barrel voting inducements), summing to about $7 billion, each one of which is in the interest of particular members or Senators. Earmarking has a long history in the US legislature, but its efflorescent continuation against the financial crisis, and the associated announcement today of 8.1% US unemployment, does not look good given that President Obama gave a campaign pledge to close the practice down.

It is accepted that any new head-of-state deserves a honeymoon period, but Barack Obama may already be close to exhausting his. This is partly because of the unfulfillable expectations that his campaign rhetoric aroused, partly because of the sheer size of the urgent problems that confronted him, and partly because of the polarizing nature of some of the key appointments he has made to his administration. This is particularly true in the environmental area and associated portfolios, where he has appointed John Holdren as Science Adviser, Stephen Chu as Secretary of Energy, Carol Browner (former EPA head) in the new position of Energy Co-ordinator and Lisa Jackson as Administrator of the EPA.

However distinguished the careers of these persons, their public record on the key environmental issues of the day is not one of balance – and especially not regarding global warming. One wonders whether a senior representative of the Obama climate team will pitch up at the Heartland conference, for it is very clear that his administration would benefit from an injection of reality on the issue.

Against this background – and the dependence of President Obama on revenue from a carbon dioxide cap and trade bill to meet his aim of halving the US deficit in the four years 2012-2016 – travellers from around the world are today converging on the Mariott Marquis in Times Square, where the Heartland Institute is hosting its second Manhatten conference on climate change.

Accordingly, press and blog comment is starting to stir. Fascinatingly, two of the first cabs off the rank give diametrically opposed views of the conference.

Writing in the Canadian National Post, Peter Foster summarises the IPCC claim that the climate is at a crisis point, with human carbon dioxide emissions the main culprit, then commenting:

The Heartland conference will present papers suggesting that such views are at best simplistic and at worst downright wrong. It will also feature bold voices who stress the political nature of the climate change bandwagon, and its success in closing down debate as it threatens already foundering global prosperity. These include Vaclav Kraus, president of the Czech Republic and of the European Union.

Meanwhile, over at Grist, Coby Beck adopts the long-favoured technique of ad hominem attack in an attempt to discredit the Heartland-2 event. In a vicious example of the polemic art, Mr Beck manages to denigrate Roy Spencer, Dick Lindzen, Bill Gray, Willie Soon, Arthur Robinson, Stephen McIntyre, Jack Schmidt, Christopher Monckton and Lawrence Solomon – fine intellects, one and all – summarily dismissing them, and others, with the sneering comment:

Hardly ‘the world’s elite scientists specializing in climate issues.’ In fact, none of these experts is a trained climate scientist. In the community of actual experts, the consensus is:

  • The earth is rapidly warming (over 0.6 deg. C in the last century)

  • Human activities are the primary cause

  • Warming will continue and accelerate if greenhouse gas emissions continue unabated.

Can this be the same group of people who Peter Harris characterizes as:

I’ll be thinking about that [climate change as the new state religion] every time I look out of my window over the next couple of days, grateful that there are intellectual lights still shining inside the building, and at least some voices speaking up for intellectual freedom and scientific objectivity.

Though it received little press coverage at the time, last year’s Heartland-1 conference resulted in the striking Manhatten Declaration on Climate Change, which commented, inter alia:

That current plans to restrict anthropogenic CO2 emissions are a dangerous misallocation of intellectual capital and resources that should be dedicated to solving humanity’s real and serious problems.

That there is no convincing evidence that CO2 emissions from modern industrial activity has in the past, is now, or will in the future cause catastrophic climate change.

That attempts by governments to inflict taxes and costly regulations on industry and individual citizens with the aim of reducing emissions of CO2 will pointlessly curtail the prosperity of the West and progress of developing nations without affecting climate.

The Heartland-2 event obviously has a hard act to follow.

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Evan Jones
Editor
March 10, 2009 4:28 pm

Sorry if you took offence Evan.
Not me, personally. I am lucky. I have a full head of hair (and do not wear a beard). But I don’t think we should be poking fun at appearances. It’s the ideas that are supposed to count.
Don’t worry, though; not shooting at you in particular. Just trying to establish parameters.

old construction worker
March 10, 2009 4:31 pm

Hans Erren
‘I know that climate sensitivity is 1.1 degrees increase for co2 doubling, and I also know that there have been claims for both strong negative and strong positive feedbacks, I’m still sitting on the fence on that item.’
May I suggest you re-read the “CO2 drives the climate theory” again and ask yourself how did they come up with the correlation of CO2 to temperature. It seemed to me, after doing some research, they looked at “past temperature” or “heat” but that, by it self, did not correlate well enough. The 1.1 forcing did not produce enough “heat” to match “past temperature”. So the CO2 1.1 forcing must be multiplied by 2.5 in order to “Balance the Books”(think ENRON). But what would it force, they asked themselves. Why of course, Water Vapor and Heat Trapping Clouds. (We do not know why, where, when, or how clouds are formed.) When I look to nature, water vapor is a negative feedback to “heat” (that’s why swamp coolers and misting systems work).
Do you know what’s worse than being cold and hungry? Being WET, COLD AND HUNGY! Thing about it.
“The central value of the climate sensitivity to this change is a global average temperature increase of 3 °C (5.4 °F), but with a range from 1.5 °C to 4.5 °C (2.7 to 8.1 °F) (based on climate system models: see section 4). The central value of 3 °C is an amplification by a factor of 2.5 over the direct effect of 1.2 °C (2.2 °F). Committee on the Science of Climate Change”
National Research Council

George E. Smith
March 10, 2009 4:35 pm

“”” Hans Erren (14:37:17) :
Smith, of course, but first you need to use correct diffusion physics, that’s what I was criticizing. Even with a spike decay time of fifty years the atmospheric co2 increase will be far less than the IPCC wants us to believe.
I know that climate sensitivity is 1.1 degrees increase for co2 doubling, and I also know that there have been claims for both strong negative and strong positive feedbacks, I’m still sitting on the fence on that item. “””
Well there’s your problem; you see that doubling the amount of CO2 from 385 ppm to 770 ppm still makes CO2 completely negligible because of the huge amount of water vapor, that is competing for the same energy with CO2. Now if you were to double the total GHG, since the atmosphere could care less which molecular species captured an IR photon to convert to atmospheric warming in subsequent molecular collisions, and water vapor certainly captures more of the total spectrum than CO2 ever could; then you might start to see an effect; but unfortunately, the water will not allow you to arbitrarily double its amount, because if there is increased atmospheric warming due to more GHG, then the atmosphere will expaqnd, and that water vapor will be conveyed to higher altitudes, wqhere sooner or later a phase change to liquid or solid is going to occur; and all the latent heat of evaporation, and maybe freezing, will be dumped out to be radiated to space; meanwhile forming clouds that (a) raise the albedo and reduce incoming solar spectrum radiation, and (b) absorb evben more solar energy in the precipitable clouds, thereby lowering the ground level insolation, and then precipitation will take place to remove all that excess ghg (water vapor) from the atmosphere; and not incidently washing out some CO2 along with it, since CO2 is soluble in water, and moreso in colder water or ice.
And as to using correct diffusion physics, (of what); are you talking ordinary concentration gradient driven diffusion of molecular species, or are you talking vertical convection; which I would hardly describe as diffusion; it’s more like mass transport; or perhaps you are referring to lateral diffusion/convection as in air current circulation.
As we have seen from the annual cyclic variation in atmospheric CO2 from less than 1 ppm at the south pole to more than 18 ppm at the north pole,a dn about 6 ppm at Mauna Loa; there clearly isn’t much of an atmospheric mixing to speak of at least in year long time frames.
But the instantaneous absorption of an IR photon by a GHG molecule (the total atmospheric transit time is only about 1 msec (for 300 km) depends only on how many molecules are present during that millisecond, and not how long they are going to hang around after that photon has exited the atmosphere.
Time to forget about “climate sensitivity”, and the carbon cycle, and think more about the water cycle.
Water is plenty capable of taking care of the earth’s temperature regulation all by itself and it doesn’t need any triggering stimulus from CO2 or other ghg; more water vapor leads to more warming leads to more evaporation leads to more water vapor etc. Anmd then the water phase change to clouds comes to the resue to stop the warming right at the requirede place.
No other ghg exists in all three phases in the atmosphere, and that is why none of them matter a hill of beans. And certainly how long they stay in the atmosphere is irrelevent; like water vapor, they all stay there permanently (as species) though not as numbered marked molecules.
George

Don Shaw
March 10, 2009 5:00 pm

Gary A,
Thanks, none of the search engines that I used directed me to this site. Here is the complete report:
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/energy/2001/index.html

Gdn
March 10, 2009 5:38 pm

Mr. Watts,
Somewhat off topic, but I recall you having a PowerPoint presentation in regards the surface stations project. Where has it gone?

Pamela Gray
March 10, 2009 8:21 pm

I love poking fun at appearances. I once was asked by a 5 year old why I had a mustache. I told her, with a straight face, that my razor needed batteries. She simply said, “Oh”, and went skipping out to recess. I shaved that night. Close. With my cheater glasses on.

Evan Jones
Editor
March 10, 2009 8:26 pm

Pamela: Well, you have refrained so far around these parts.
For everything there is a season and a time — and a venue.

Evan Jones
Editor
March 10, 2009 8:35 pm

When I look to nature, water vapor is a negative feedback
My understanding is that ambient vapor (higher up than the lower troposphere) and high level clouds would, indeed, increase temperature. A positive feedback. But this is not happening.
What does seem to be happening (according to the AquaSat) is that the increase has instead been low level clouds, which increases albedo and creates a negative feedback.
The middle troposphere and up seem to be desiccating.

Evan Jones
Editor
March 10, 2009 8:46 pm

Somewhat off topic, but I recall you having a PowerPoint presentation in regards the surface stations project. Where has it gone?
Patience, patience. The data is being analyzed. Regionalization. Filtering out the ASOS.
Remember, a CRN4 station in a cooling region is likely to show less warming than a CRN2 in a warming region. Also urban vs. rural considerations.
And there’s also what historians call “the collective fallacy”, whereby a group can vary from the enumerated individual cases. (I.e., it still doesn’t mean the individual cases are not biased.)

Just Want Truth...
March 10, 2009 9:11 pm

I haven’t seen any comments from Mary Hinge since the lone comment yesterday about record heat earlier this month. She isn’t here today talking about the record cold in the US Northwest, and the record shattering cold in Canada.
Mary, where are you? There was some noteworthy record cold Mary…. Mary? ….funny …all quiet now.

Harold Pierce Jr
March 11, 2009 1:28 am

ATTN: TonyB
The link is
http://alexeylyubushin.narod.ru/Climate_Changes_and_Fish_Productivity.pdf?
I didn’t use caps for “Climate _and_ Changes”_
Your fish data sounds intersetting? Got any good stories to tell?

NS
March 11, 2009 1:29 am

Generally speaking I’m pro-Obama but I am getting concerned at the similarities to a Mr. Tony Blair that are already becoming apparent.
Specifically, the UK government have rolled out massive tax cuts in the form of “stealth taxes”. This is so they can announce, for example, “(income) taxes will not rise under Labour”, which is true. But they raise a whole range of “charges” and “value added measures” which have a terrible (and regressive) effect on the workers who they are supposed to represent.
In our present context climate change is an enabler of a whole new revenue stream and believe me it is factored in already to the governments budgets.
Remember (in the UK) income tax was a temporary measure to fund the Napoleanic wars of the 18th century…..

B Kerr
March 11, 2009 2:34 am

TonyB
Statistician!!
A timely second posting.
How could you even think that, you must still be watching cricket.
You can tell where my loyalties lie.
Nice mention of Edward Lorenz’s work.
Lorenz’s work on the Royal McBee was amazing, quite outstanding and full of foresight. His colleagues said that he, Lorenz, would have weather prediction all wrapped up inside 6 months. An innocent faith in computers and their power. That was in 1968/69.
I still see his work as a corner stone; computer programmers and those who have such total faith in computers should be aware of his work and the underlying pit falls. These pitfalls are still relevant today. Especially now, when accuracy is displayed as an output to a totally unreasonable number of significant figures.
Have you noticed that computer models are described as “sophisticated” or “very sophisticated”, never accurate.

Nick Darlington UK
March 11, 2009 3:34 am

The BBC continue to churn out more alarmist reports about that nasty poisonous carbon dioxide. I still haven’t seen any references to your conference, but there is of course more from Copenhagen:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7936137.stm

March 11, 2009 5:00 am

B Kerr said
“I still see his work as a corner stone; computer programmers and those who have such total faith in computers should be aware of his work and the underlying pit falls. These pitfalls are still relevant today. Especially now, when accuracy is displayed as an output to a totally unreasonable number of significant figures. Have you noticed that computer models are described as “sophisticated” or “very sophisticated”, never accurate.”
Your words should be placed over the desk of every IPCC modeller who is convinced their work is 100% robust 🙂
TonyB

matt v.
March 11, 2009 6:25 am

An excellent coverage of the Conference by Canada’s Toronto National Post and Peter Foster. Where is Ameriac’s media ?
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/archive/2009/03/10/peter-foster-the-crumbling-case-for-global-warming.aspx

B Kerr
March 11, 2009 7:01 am

TonyB
Thanks for your kind words.
BK