First let me say I apologize to my readers. I’m going to editorialize a bit.
Apparently nothing is off limits anymore. Now we can all honestly say that Greenpeace has abandoned any pretense of using science. It’s all about the message they believe. The message here appears to be a double fallacy packed into a slick CGI animation designed specifically to target children during the holiday season.
Greenpeace now has hit rock bottom on the credibility scale in my opinion. The next time Greenpeace cites science in a press release or blog entry, be sure to link this video in comments.
And if you see this video being aired on your local or national TV channel and find it troubling as I do, may I remind you that you can exercise your rights with a complaint to the FCC. Better yet, write to Greenpeace also and tell them what you think about this.
I await now the corruption of “Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus”.
This is just a PR stunt to hide the true mission depicted in the video. They are actually kidnapping Santa to stop him from distributing coal to all the naughty people. They are just spinning it as a “rescue” mission to make them look good. Santa is just a tool for the coal industry. Why else would someone living in the Arctic promote evil CO2 spewing coal?
It’s officially winter, try to stay warm!
Katherine (19:27:04) :
“A recently announced study showed that a significant percent of women and men prefer to abstain from sex for TWO weeks, rather than go without Internet access for ONE week.”
This supposes they are getting some in the first place, always a dangerous assumption.
A Wod (07:35:29) : Wrote:
Frances Wilson, who is the Sunday Times weather commentator, in today’s UK Sunday Times writes that:
‘This year has beome the 10th warmest year recorded globally (the records began in 1850). The top warmest years globally were, order: 1998,2005,2003(remember the summer?), 2002, 2004, 2006, 2007, 2001, 1997 and 2008. Do you notice something here? Beyond all doubt global warming is here. It’s the fastest rate of global temperature rise. For us in Britain and Ireland, having sat through two dismal summers in a row, it is hard to believe that the summer of 2008 might be considered a scorcher in some parts of the world.’
Given messages like these, is it any wonder that people believe that there is global warming going on?
Look on the bright side fella. Once we were were debating whether or not the debate was over. Then we were debating whether or not carbon dioxide caused it. Now we (and they) are debating whether or not it is actually getting warmer.
Two down, one to go.
Somehow, Greenpeace is one of those radical organizations that the media turn to for “authoritative” comments on things environmental.
For those who don’t know – apparently including “the media” – the Founder of Greenpeace, Patrick Moore, quit Greenpeace some time ago and has repudiated his own creation because of what it has evolved into.
– I blame Atomic Energy.
Professor John P. Holdren who is expected to serve as Obama’s top science adviser:
“The few climate-change “skeptics” with any sort of scientific credentials continue to receive attention in the media out of all proportion to their numbers, their qualifications, or the merit of their arguments. And this muddying of the waters of public discourse is being magnified by the parroting of these arguments by a larger population of amateur skeptics with no scientific credentials at all.” http://undertheradarmedia.wordpress.com/
Note: He was also Gore’s adviser on the film “inconviniently inaccurate” or whatever the name of it was…
Per Freezing Finn, apparently Holdren thinks repeating quasi-religious mantras which deny reality instead constitutes describing reality. Not surprising, eh?
Hi guys,
Get real can’t believe so many people are wound up about the video. It’s a bit of fun for Christmas with an important message. I’m not even going to make comment on whether Climate Change is really happening. That arguement was ended a long time ago trying to cling to the denial its not happening is like trying to pretend santa is real once you’ve been out Christmas shopping and bought all the presents yourself!
Get real, lioghten up and have a good Christmas you bunch of ~snip~
Bah Humbug
“I’m not even going to make comment on whether Climate Change is really happening. That arguement was ended a long time ago”
You come on a site where everyone agrees that climate change is really happening, and has been for hundreds of millions of years – and you tell them that? You been previewing the Christmas drinks selection ??
Any words of wisdom on carbon dioxide specifically causing global warming??
PeteM (13:02:24) :
With respect (ref below to your first comment on that thread)…
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/12/20/polar-albedo-feedback/
Pete – your repeating yourself – so what are you trying to say – really?
Mike D. (13:47:10) :
Dear PeteM,
Since you posted the exact same comment on two different post threads, I will too.
Actually Mike – on a close reading there are slight differences, possibly indicating a desire on the part of the author “PeteM” to tailor his message to the particular thread.
He added “I’m not a member of Greenpeace but they have a clear point (even though I may not always agree with evertything they say) – the Earth is not an infinite resource that is immune to the effect of human activity.” to the second post.
The essence of his message seems to be the warning “But the idea that on average the world isn’t going to change due to increasing the concentrations of CO2 is really taking a step too far…..”
PeteM – Is that what you are trying to say. If so – no drama – no one here is saying that increasing concentrations of CO2 will not “on average” cause change to the world.
I personally think that it quite obvious that increasing CO2 concentrations will have a substantial impact on the productivity of the biosphere resulting in increasing crop and fish (fish benefit from increased phytoplankton) yields resulting in increased capacity to support human food needs.
Or were you talking about some other changes?
kuhnkat (13:54:28) :
The AGW meme is a perversion of science – unfortunately your comment is indicative of what will happen to the status of science once the AGW scam is broadly understood by the majority of people.
The scientists who have sold themselves for this fraud have a lot to answer for.
Luke (14:06:47) :
He probably had lunch first – in the ships galley.
and with ref to “If people weren’t so gullible it would be funny.”
There are plenty of people who arn’t.
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FatBigot (15:28:00) :
I’m intrigued by Mr Pete’s “accumulating evidence about MMGW/AGW”. Everywhere I turn I see evidence contradicting the catastrophic AGW theory and nothing but argument supporting it. What is the “accumulating evidence”?
When I first read that line from PeteM, I honestly thought he was talking about the increasing evidence that MMGW/AGW is a SCAM. As it turned out, I was mistaken – which I freely admit.
TinyCO2 (15:11:09) :
I think that they have also overstated the energy delivery of these systems…
Christian Bultmann (18:12:54) :
Or we abandon the progress we made in supplying affordable energy and transportation to everybody and join the third world with expensive wind and solar power in the dark ages?
That would be the Neo Dark Ages – 2nd time around.
Who, I was going to say, let the troll in?
I love how some people ignore the climate shifts of the past, due to natural causes, then proclaim loudly, without any evidence to back up their claim, that AGW is caused solely by anthropogenic CO2. As if it’s never warmed in the past, or never cooled in the past, that our climactic system is linear and dmoniated by positive feedback. And I’m still looking for a lucid debate from PeteM, with citations, on how his position is just unbelievably backed by sound, rational, unpoliticized and unbiased science. For one Pete – what is the “global” temp supposed to be? That is a tough question as we can’t even measure our own temp in our country accurately or without a common standard. Were the MWP or the LIA in fact reality or something people just fictionalized? What effect do clouds and water vapor….sigh……..What’s the point?
I’m so tired of the hysteria of the many groups that preofees the next “dangerous thing to happen to mankind caused by mankind”. The Club of Rome, Y2K, ad nauseum. We are not sheep here.
Back to topic – stupid video, and Greenpeae should absolutely lose their non-profit status for taking such a blatant political stance. But there’s the rub – our “science” has become extremely politicized, so how do you separate the two? Only time will weed these people out – and unfortunately, they will wreak havoc on all of us with their well meaning, but wrong “fixes” to a non-problem.
I’m in the nuclear industry. We know Greenpeace.
They have been at the level shown by this vid for
decades. They try some stunt. If it works, great!
Miller time. If not, recycle it, slap on another coat
of paint, and try it some other place. No need for
any semblance of science or even sanity.
Mongo (15:51:30) :
But there’s the rub – our “science” has become extremely politicized, so how do you separate the two? Only time will weed these people out – and unfortunately, they will wreak havoc on all of us with their well meaning, but wrong “fixes” to a non-problem.
Is double blind funding for basic science feasible? – that way the researchers would not know who was funding them and it would remove the idea that funding was tied to particular “consensus” results.
With all the fuss iver global warning perhaps one should take time to read “State of Fear” by Michael Crichton. This explains why we are being duped into thinking the world is doomed. Governments play on our fears to keep us in a state of fear.
Freezing Finn (01:26:34) :
“How Venice Rigged The First, and Worst, Global Financial Collapse”
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/954_Gallagher_Venice_rig.html
An interesting if somewhat biased and maybe even inflammatory article. I’ll have to re-read my Economic History book about that period.
BTW, not even near the “first” financial collapse. People thousands of years ago where the same as they are today. We have more stuff and more technologies, but we’re still modern people, Mark 1. Example? See:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Influence_of_Wealth_in_Imperial_Rome/The_Business_Panic_of_33_A.D.
Yes, that’s 33 A.D. as in near the time of Christ. It is almost exactly the same as the present panic, including a mortgage bubble and the failure of the best named banking houses in Rome… Though you have to replace General Motors with the Ostrich Feather Trade being off. (no smiley. It is funny, but that’s the straight history, so no smiley. Wipe that smirk off! 😉
Read it – then replace Venice with Wall Street and/or London City – and ask yourself – could something like this happen again –
Banking Panics happen with great regularity. They will continue to happen as long as there are people and loans. Google “banking panic” and “financial panic” and see what pops up…
The banking panic you cite is not special in that regard. I can’t speak to the political angle or the motivations of people dead for several hundred years, but I can say that as much as we would like to think we’re special or advanced, we are not.
Maybe we put a new bit of lipstick on this pig that wasn’t on the last one (derivatives) but that’s about it. Lend money long (especially on mortgages), have a liquidity crisis (due to roman senators needing money by government decree or due to ‘mark to market’ by government decree), watch the banking panic develop as leveraged long loans try to morph instantly into unleveraged cash, and can’t.
Even the bailout is the same. The sovereign reduces the onerous demands, then provides massive liquidity by taking the mortgages at collateral at 50% on the dollar or so. 2000 years and nothing has really changed.
Remember the mantra “Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.” You don’t need any of the conspiracy theory speculation, just greed and stupidity…
That’s why I don’t get excited about the propaganda as shown in the bit this thread is about. It is much easier to believe that these folks are just true believers acting in ways they believe will do good. And a bit dumb about it…
One other weather related note: Financial panics tend to come at/near sun spot minimums. Why, don’t ask why, down that path lies insanity and ruin…
Retired Engineer (09:09:58) :
E.M.Smith (00:16:02) : No Doomsday ?
I agree that there is no real doomsday pending, from a resource point of view, but I am equally sure that government is capable of producing one.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything in your post. My fundamental nature is positive and I do believe that there is no need for any gloom and doom outcome, but if pushed… I have to admit that I also fully expect that there will be a catastrophe, and it will be laid at the feet of governments and power brokers.
William is right, you got the video wrong. The greenies are kidnapping Santa. Check how the sleigh has been chained, so that Santa cannot use it to escape flying. And check how sick Santa is feeling, in spite of being used to doing all kind of stunts in the air with his sleigh. He is sick not because of the ship but because of the drugs they had to give him to kidnap him. It is really sad. How could they!
Children of the world, save Santa! Destroy Greenpeace!
E.M. Smith: “You don’t need any of the conspiracy theory speculation, just greed and stupidity…”
Well, knowing that many people are indeed greedy as well as “stupid” – though I’d rather call them ignorant and/or uninformed, in most cases – makes conspiracies only easier.
For instance – the conspiracy named the (not) Federal (nor) Reserve is not a theory – it’s just a “long term business plan”:
“The Creature from Jekyll Island” by G. Edward Griffin intro at http://www.bigeye.com/griffin.htm
“Tragedy and Hope” by Dr. Carroll Quigley – intro at
http://www.cyberclass.net/turmel/quig00.htm
“FIAT Empire”
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5232639329002339531
“Money Masters”
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936
And just for starters…
Evidently there´s big money behind this and an also big need for power. This is what logic says; then THEY don´t have the power yet…
What kind of thought process is at work here? I thought the suicidal chimp thing was hilarious but I am beginning to think we are seeing infiltration by deniers attempting to make these people look (even more) ridiculous. Of course, the cartoon Santa has to be rescued by a cartoon Greenpeace sailboat (in cartoons, Greenpeace always uses sailboats) but Santa barfing off the fantail is just too perfect. This goes beyond satire.