You may recall NBC’s Today show sending out their correspondents to all ends of the earth to highlight “climate change”.
‘Today’ host Matt Lauer reported from Jakobshavn Glacier in the Arctic last year.
Ann Curry headed to Antarctica for ‘Today Heads to the Ends of the Earth’
Well, they are at it again. From the New York Daily News:
“Today Goes to the Ends of the Earth,” kicking off on Nov. 17, will have anchors Matt Lauer, Meredith Vieira, Al Roker and Ann Curry headed to four different locations across the globe.
Each anchor’s location will not be revealed until the first day of the series, though Today show spokesman Jim Bell promises that anywhere is possible.
From my insider TV sources the TYSPY.com newsletter they tell me Ann Curry will be going to Mount Kilimanjaro:
Ann Curry, who spent much of Election Night traversing NBC’s “virtual rotunda,” will next climb Mount Kilimanjaro for a “Today” show sweeps stunt.
It’s an eight-day hike to the 19,340-foot summit, and according to NBC News, she’ll be there to report on the changing climate of Africa’s highest peak.
Place your bets now on if there will be mentions of these key words which actually are relevant to the true Kiliminjaro story: evapotranspiration, deforestation, sublimation.
Having done a number of TV weather live shots in remote places myself, including from atop the Sutter Buttes in the Sacramento Valley and from the fire tower at Sawmill Peak, I can tell you that preparation and backup equipment is everything. They may not actually be able to pull off the Kili stunt for technical reasons.
Alas, it will be spring there, so there will be plenty of “melting” to film, as there is every spring.
the enjvironment in those pictures lacks that warm and toasty look
Actually, I enjoy these well-intentioned, “if it bleeds it leads” stunts. I can see it now: Curry succumbs to copious amounts of snow and is unable to reach the summit. Global climate change is once again demonstrated in clear terms. Extreme weather events are part and parcel of human pollution. More at 11:00.
Do I have that right?
“Eight day hike to the top”?
Having been there I know that it is (or at least was) normally done in three days. You walk from the gate to the first camp on day one and to the second camp at ca 12500 feet on the second day, and start for the top before dawn on the third day, in order to be back to camp before it gets dark. Incidentally it’s walking all the way to the top – no real climbing. It’s a very challenging hike all the same, it’s very tough even walking at that altitude, especially if you aren’t acclimatized. Many people simply cannot handle the thin air.
[…] wattsupwiththat added an interesting post today on Another dumb climate stunt from NBC – climbing KilimanjaroHere’s a small readingAnn Curry, who spent much of Election Night traversing NBC’s “virtual rotunda,” will next climb Mount Kilimanjaro for a “Today” show sweeps stunt. It’s an eight-day hike to the 19340-foot summit, and according to NBC News, … […]
“oh my goodness folks! just look at all the snow and ice!….the climate is changing so rapidly that the snow and ice is melting and forming at the same time! oh the humanity!….”
-Ann Curry
Oh great! NBC, the propaganda arm for Green Earth will once again be giving us the green bird. Head for the hills!
Um, Kenya is North of the equator, so it will be fall there, still, not spring.
NBC’s Jim Bell says “I guess we’re throwing logic out the window this year.”
I guess so. What little they had to begin with, anyway.
I wish these people all the bad luck in the world! More than anything I hate the propaganda spewed by corporate flacks pretending to treat the masses as family! What a laugh. They all live behind iron gates to keep out the riffraff.
It would be a great story to hear one or more of them needed to be rescued from a winter storm.
Perhaps Kilimanjaro will awaken from its long slumber at the precise moment they reach the summit and give them a REALLY good “If it bleeds, it leads!” exclusive? (Due, of course, to AGW’s effects on the Earth’s innards.)
Well, at least it’s not a credible news organization pulling this stunt.
3 days to hike. 8 days to haul the cameras, makeup, water, food, toilet paper, and transmission energy, up the side of a mountain.
More of a stunt, than a public service.
More about getting ratings and increasing ad revenue, than saving Planet Earth.
I prefer “news organizations” to at least act like they have some integrity. And not put on a pretentious show, whose main theme is a fear-guilt message, directed to the weak minded.
It wasn’t long ago, when journalist’s, were disgraced by taking advocacy stances, in their work. We have lost that, and it has been a great loss.
Well you don’t really imagine that Ann Curry is actually going to climb Mt Kilimanjaro do you ?
No NBC will charter some local war lord’s hi tech helicopter, and take her up there for the photo op, and then get her down before she overheats internally from wearing too much clothing.
But I’m with you Anthony; a total waste of time and effort.
I’d be more impressed if Curry actually moved her site to a more interesting place, perhaps one of current political interest like say Alaska and its Denali National Park. (how many times bigger than Delaware is that park ?)
Let’s see Ann Curry climb Mt McKinley to showe how the climate changes as you go up there.
NBC-T may simply be trying to keep up with Scott Pelley over at CBS-60min.
I’ve said before and i’ll say it again.I don’t trust the media ,liberal media NBC,ABC,CBS,CNN,and MSNBC.they are in the tank together with the global warming crowd.What you see on one channel you will see on all of them .They are getting there pockest lined with all the global warming crowd.I wonder if they will do an episode this winter when it gets cold and snowy about how they are wrong and in fact we are entering a cooling cycle?I can answer that one myself .NO,NO,NO.
The three-day route up Kilimanjaro is notorious for inducing altitude sickness. Several trekking companies (e.g., Mountain Madness) have other routes that take a little longer but make the likelihood of summiting much higher.
Beings flatlander who lives at a few feet above sea level in NYC, it’s a good idea for Ms. Curry to take her time and allow for acclimatization. The last thing we need is for altitude sickness to be reported as “global warming-induced lack of oxygen”, there will be enough BS as-is.
tty,
Re: “Eight days to the summit…”
I also climbed it, about 20 years ago – and I’m still out of breath. I think we did it in about four days to Gilman’s Point (a slight depression of the lip of the volcanic rim).
So wrt Ms. Curry’s eight-day plan, we must keep in mind that making it to the summit is one thing. Having the breath to say something to folks back home is another kettle of fish. I wish I had taken that long, not only to acclimate, but to appreciate the mountain’s unique beauty.
Hopefully, she won’t go too political, but there are probably half a million people of the Chagga tribe who live around the flanks of the mountain, so that wherever they point the cameras there will be some deforestation. If she wants to go into social commentary, well, she’s got plenty of issues to deal with: sustainability, pollution, soil erosion, overpopulation, poverty, local and governmental corruption… Did I forgetting anything?
I like her hat. I wonder what kind of animal that is.
So are they going to publish the ‘carbon footprint’ for this cheesy stunt?
A dead one.
Just to build excitement. In Oregon, 2005 was a banner year for early snowpack. Most basins recorded WAY above average snowpack on November 11. I always use that as my comparison year to see if the past 4 years are inching back to that level. Certainly 06 was bad. Very little snowpack. 07 was very snowy starting around Thanksgiving (I remember it well because I was herding cows out of a pasture in blowing snow).
So what do we have this year on November 11th? 13 out of 16 basins are reporting a higher snowpack percent of average than 2007 did on this same day (meaning it is trending back up to average). And if 100% is the average and a SD is 15 points on either side, then in 07, only 1 basin was within two SD’s of the average. For 08, 4 basins are within two SD of the average. What are the minimum stats? Same thing. In 07, 3 basins had a single digit percent of average. 08 has none. What are the max stats? in 07 the max for this day was 77% of average. In 08, the max is 125% of average.
Noisy data? A one year blimp on a downward slide from 2005? Maybe. But then 2005 was a major deviation from average that was not repeated the year before or the year after. However, long term forecasts for snowpack indicate a repeat of 2007 plus some. That means plenty of water this summer in irrigation pipes and ditches. If the season is short and cold like it was this past summer, we can partially recover our loss by providing more water for that second cutting, thus increasing its yield (meaning more bales of hay per acre than in a dry, but longer summer with three cuttings).
Oregon is a notorious hyper-sensitive state to participation and temperature. If snowpack is trending up here, other parts of the western half of the US will also see more snowpack.
Tanzanians should speak for their own country and its problems. Linked below is an article by a man who lives in Moshi, one of many towns situated on the slopes of the mountain.
“Of Mt. Kilimanjaro ice waving us good-bye due to deforestation”
http://www.ippmedia.com/ipp/guardian/2008/09/05/121966.html
Umm.. Eric, Some of Kenya is north of the equator and some is south. 🙂
Just google – expeditions global warming 2009
A lot of adventure holidays
By the way, it is snowing on Kilimanjaro right now and teeth shattering cold:
http://www.snow-forecast.com/resorts/Kilimanjaro/6day/top
Ann Curry is a good looking woman.
Dill Weed
Hi Eric, Kili is 3.03 degrees south and in Tanzania, not Kenya. Regrds from the snowy cold mountains of Davos, Switzerland
In the interest of accuracy, I have to point out that you don’t really know if the animal is dead or not.
Mmm.
There is an old legend about Cordell Hull (I have no idea if it is actually true). He was riding in a train with fellow jurists. One of them looked out the window and remarked, “Those sheep are shorn”.
Hull is said to have replied, “At least on one side.”
Just to build excitement.
But you have to be wary of those early exit polls.
Dill Weed:
“Ann Curry is a good looking woman.”
So was Barbarella.
Any volunteers for taking a camera up there to document the ecological destruction caused by the NBC entourage? I envision cigarette butts, granola bar wrappers, crushed endangered vegetation, etc, etc.
The reason why I reported on snowpack is because wet snow can come and then melt off in warm temperatures, leaving no snowpack behind. Snowpack, I believe, is a measure of the snow on the ground at that moment if melted and measured. Precipitation is more a measure of how wet the atmosphere is. Snowpack is more a measure of temperature as well as atmospheric precipitation. Snowpack then is a better measure of trends simply because it sticks around longer, even from season to season, and doesn’t depend on rare precipitation events but on overall precipitation events. There are winter seasons on record with high precipitation values but low snowpack. That means that the temps were just too warm to build a snowpack measure or the snow just too dry to have much moisture in it.
From what I am seeing in the year to year data, snowpack is building from year to year once again from its unusual high in 2005.
There is an old legend about …
Thought you were going to tell us the story about that leopard at the top.
Who is Cordell Hull anyway?
“Ann Curry is a good looking woman”
In that hat, she looks… oh, I don’t know, kind of Palinesque. Wonder what kind of shoes she’ll wear.
Bill P
I hope the make a program about the Chagga instead. They have one of the best and smartest irrigation systems I’ve ever seen.
Tamara is right. Have these folks filed an environmental impact statement? I live in Colorado, climbing a 14er can be hard. A flatlander at 19,000? I supect they won’t show us the oxygen tanks.
Maybe they’ll just film it in Arizona with some bits of styrofoam.
“…a program about the Chagga instead.” I agree.
nothing to do with this, but it seems that the Maldives are being threatened by AGW. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,449911,00.html
Reading Lomborg, I’ve discovered there is an epidemic of alarmism based on Grossly. Inflated. Sub. Standard. data right across the board in environmental / global issues. Climate is not the only target. “We had long been hearing… that we would lose about half of all species within a generation. The correct figure is closer to 0.7% in 50 years”…
P Folkens writes:
“NBC-T may simply be trying to keep up with Scott Pelley over at CBS-60min.”
Yeah lie and distort often.
Bill,
It must be the parka, hood and fluff. Plus an after image of Palin burned into your retinas.
I must object to the comparison!!
I found myself wondering after reading some of Palin’s quotes how could someone with two teachers for parents have such screwed up speech patterns.
After all, doesn’t our language reflect our thinking?
I think they should Ann Curry to a beach somewhere though. : P
Dill Weed
Maybe they should all go to the Hindu Kush.
There was a topic over at Jennifer Marohasy’s web site over the weekend about the independence in the main stream media from political correctness. She apparently had been sitting next to a journalism professor and broached to subject subtlely that there is a lot of repetition of stories. The professor agreed but his explanation was elegant and scarry. “there are established story lines – that journalists only add to these narratives, as one might add to a large tapestry.” AGW is clearly an emotional narrative where stories are planned and put forward to support a conclusion rather than enlighten an audience. I think the challenge for getting main stream media attention for skeptical views is to figure out what kind of emotional narrative can supplant the AGW narrative.
When Oxfam started raising the issue of expanded poverty and starvation caused by conversion of food crops into biofuels, it seemed to get a lot of discussion in Europe but I only saw one story in the NY Times and never saw any on TV. I think a very interesting skeptic web site would be one that could be titled “Real Consequences” that critically examined the impact of AGW solutions on the people of this planet and on the environment.
I hate the stinkin’ drive-by media. CBS (communist broadcast system), CNN (communist news network), NBC (nitwit broadcast community), and I can go on and on. I mean come on, last night on world new, they talked about barak obama going to the white house where he will live in the the future…..”a house that was built by slaves” Now they have all this green crap. As clueless as they are, this goes beyond cluelessness. They will report anything that gets a reaction…hence my first comment about king barak.
Rog
Will she report the temperature?
“Temperature sensors that collect hourly data placed around Mount Kilimanjaro show that temperatures remain below freezing year-round, so it’s very unlikely that air temperature increase due to global warming is causing glaciers to retreat from the mountain. “
Meanwhile the British Daily Mail has different take:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1084877/Record-snow-falls-Europe-North-America-mean-ski-resorts-open-early.html
they’ll use a helicopter but only to fly the polar bear up there so it can be in the background shots. 🙂
Ann Curry? The same one who merrily boated away from drowning dogs in New Orleans? That makes her reporting suspect to me, even if she said GW is a full-fledged crock.
@richard Lawson,
How much is that based on “global”? Check Rutgers for snow anomalies per yesterday and focus on the areas mention in that hyped new flash then look at the rest: http://climate.rutgers.edu/snowcover/chart_daily.php?ui_year=2008&ui_day=315&ui_set=2
I live right at the foot of an Italian ski resort, and since the Sept.14 snow, not seen anthing new and pretty much all but a little on the permanent shade side, in late autumn / winter time, it’s pretty much gone. Forecast tomorrow “21C Real Feel”.
ttyl
Who is Cordell Hull anyway?
FDR’s Secretary of State.
Eric, Kilimanjaro is not in Kenya, it’s in Tanzania. Use Google Earth to find it at around 3 degrees 44 minutes South, 37 degrees 39 minutes East.
However, I’m thinking the seasonal difference at 3 degrees might not be very significant.
Wow – can’t believe I messed that up so much. Try 3 degrees 4 minutes South, 37 degrees 21 minutes East.
Obama and his wife needed two jets to fly to Washington yesterday….when your above the peasant level, CO2 does not matter. Obama wants our electric bill to skyrocket, but he can do whatever he wants, he is like a god!
Sorry Mr. Obama, your not a god and you have double standards like many of your green friends.
Bill R (13:57:26). President Mohamed Nasheed of the Maldives is reported here in Australian newspapers as gathering his funds so as to buy property in Australia. He wishes to relocate his 350,000 people to Australia. Unbelievable! Has he not thought about asking us first? Is he also gathering his funds to build hospitals, towns, medical services, produce jobs etc? His monies might be better spent on levies in thee Maldives! (We have vast tracts of desert here though that he can probably have for nothing to set up camp, but he must bring his own water!).
Richard111 (11:48:47) :
Mt Kilimanjaro is ~ 3 degrees South of the equator so it is ‘spring’ there now (Surely there are only wet and dry seasons in the tropics, not spring, winter , autumn, summer?)
Sean (14:56:16) :
When Oxfam started raising the issue of expanded poverty and starvation caused by conversion of food crops into biofuels, it seemed to get a lot of discussion in Europe but I only saw one story in the NY Times and never saw any on TV.
I saw (wait for it) Dan Rather take on the biofuel/food situation on that cable channel he inhabits a couple months ago. Lots of shots of Dan standing in corn fields and starving children in wherever, but the story was told pretty straight, aside from blaming the farmers instead of the pols. Dan’s been out in the cold too long …
3 days if you walk it yourself, 8 days if you are so important you have to be carried in a sedan chair.
His monies might be better spent on levies in thee Maldives!
Or not.
According to Moerner, who did on-site surveys back around 2000, the Maldives are in absolutely no danger, whatever. It’s mentioned in Wiki.
Ann Curry and I go back to my days as an Airfreight Pilot.She was on a United flight that had to make a go-around due to wind shear-as they were going around,she looked out the window and saw my putt-putt Twin cessna
taxiing in-so she thought it was near miss-and reported it on the 11:00 clock
news in Medford Oregon.Withhout talking to United,Myself or the Control tower.
She got a phone call form the Chief Pilot of United Airlines.He was flying that
727! Oops.She did a retraction.So I have little in the way of expectations….
Since I currently reside in Tanzania, I can say that right now it is HOT! But what can you expect from a Tropical country a stone’s throw from the equator! It has been published many times that the glaciers of Kili are retreating/”melting” not because of global warming, but because of deforestation. The Chagga have been cutting down the forest and replanting with banana trees. The banana trees don’t have the same transpiration rates as the old trees. This has led to less snow on the mountain and less build up of the glaciers. The glaciers are above the freezing point and are melting due to sublimating from solar radiation, not high temps.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/05/070501-kilimanjaro.html
I love how they say in the same article that the glacier’s will succumb to global “climate change” and then say that the main cause for the retreat is LESS SNOWFALL! And they mention that the glacier’s have been retreating since the 1800s, but is still somehow connected to AGW.
http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:yiUEu39M0i0J:www.geo.umass.edu/faculty/bradley/kaser2004.pdf+kilimanjaro+glacier&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=firefox-a
OT – another article about how AGW does not affect most tropical glaciers.
Response to Eric (10:23)
Kenya is on the equator, Mount Kilimangaro is 3°4′33″S 37°21′12″E / -3.07583, 37.35333 according to Wikipedia. Note South of the equator = spring….just.
re Maldives
Didn’t Moerner ask some IPCC scientists at a conference, about the Maldives data a couple of years ago.
He stated words to the effect, I know this data (I think he had collected some of it) and have studied it in the past,
it did not show an upward trend that it now does.
The answer he recieved,
“If we had not of added a trend, there would not of been one.”
I think he also asked about Hong Kong, there are 6 sea level monitoring stations there, one of which is known to be sinking due to compaction of sediments (I think, certainly known geological reasons).
The IPCC only used one sea level station from Hong Kong.
Guess which one the IPCC used to show sea level is rising.
Hint – The other five showed no change.
Yup, the IPCC used the one that was sinking…
Moerner left the IPCC.
11 11 2008
L Nettles (15:02:42) :
Will she report the temperature?
“Temperature sensors that collect hourly data placed around Mount Kilimanjaro show that temperatures remain below freezing year-round, so it’s very unlikely that air temperature increase due to global warming is causing glaciers to retreat from the mountain. “
I where about to ask if temepratures are meassured up there and obviously thet are.
So the basic theory of global warming causing glaciers to retreat is that temparature raises and make the glacier to melt fast.
Ice starts melting at 0C(may be slightly different due to altitude?). So if the temperature is below this value there will be no melting.
If glacier is still retreating, what causes it then? Does AGW belivers really dare to thoughly examine this subject or are they just happy with that the glacier is retreating and then it must be global warming causing it?
We know that CO2 levels before 1950 where too low to cause any significant change in global temperatures even according to AGW theory.
If you belive in AGW theory, please explain to me:
– Why did the glaciers start to shrink around 1850-1900, 50-100 years before CO2 levels where high enough to cause significant global warming accroding to AGW?
– What natural process caused it to happen?
– When did this natural melting process stop and melting caused by anthropogene global warming replaced the natural process?
– Has cloudcover changed over the glacier during the last century?
– Has precipitation changed over the glacier the last century?
– Does the confiremd deforestation have any impact on temperatures, precipitation and cloud cover in the area?
On second thought, considering the level of competency in the craft of journalism that crew exhibits, perhaps when ‘Today Heads to the Ends of the Earth’ they should keep their talking heads stationed there permanently.
Sean,
I’m sorry, but you are making the classic mistake made by academics. That mistake is believing that issues like AGW are capable of being overcome by fact and logic. AGW (or at least the political aspects of it) is an emotional issue and every good salesman knows that emotion cannot be overcome by an argument based in fact, it can only be overcome by another emotional argument. Its just the way people are, you can explain that people were exposed to several orders of magnitude less radiation from Three Mile Island (in the tenths of millirems) than they receive from ‘normal’ background radiation from their homes and gardens, but that will not stop them from stampeding away from the area in fear of ‘radiation poisoning from Three Mile Island’. in fact, even today TMI is cited as a ‘danger’ of nuclear power, when, in fact, it really is the opposite. Its all about emotion, not fact or logic.
People will believe almost anything they read or see in the media. Check this story out about a small island country that believes it will be under water soon due to you guessed it, global warming: http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/11/11/maldives.president/index.html
There is no such thing as Fall/Winter/Spring/Summer in the tropics. In Tanzania, the seasons are defined as:
Hot with occasional thunderstorms and monsoon (now)
Then we’ll have the really rainy season in about March
Then that will eventually turn into the cool but dry season
And finally we’ll have the short rain season.
I am looking forward to my usual four seasons with an actual winter of snow this year!
OT: What got me was the tag on the first page linking to this article
“While the Sun doesn’t cause global warming, solar activity seems to influence the flow of rivers and thus the rain that feeds them”
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20026814.100-does-rainfall-vary-with-sunspot-activity.html
So what say you? Is it possible for the Sun to cause global warming or not?
So you can nit-pick about little stuff, and therefore prove that global warming does not exist, and go back to your wasteful, consumtion-driven lives as if nothing is wrong. If you close your eyes, you can’t see the elephant in the room.
Worth keeping an eye out for all thoses media reports with the head line “Arctic Ice Area Exceeds 30 Year Average”
http://eva.nersc.no/vhost/arctic-roos.org/doc/observations/images/ssmi1_ice_area.png
Is any one taking bets?
What was the climate like at the locations NBC choses 100, 200, 300, 1000, 2000, 3000, etc. years ago? If AGW were to go away, what perpetual state of climate perfection would exist? What was the period of climate perfection before AGW? Obviousily if current climate flucuations are all caused by human activity, then the climate had to have been in a state of near perfection prior to human influence, and once humans stop mucking things up, it will go back to that near perfect state. How can it be any other way?
As Kilimanjaro is south of the equator the monsoon season has just started. Perhaps there will be some snow falling when Ann Curry and crew arrive. The crew won’t be dropping many cigarette butts on the way up. I had a smoke at 16,000 ft when I climbed Kilimanjaro and it was not a great idea. As for Ann’s hat it does not appear to be frosting up so it may be wolverine.
This is probably a good time for Donald Trump to purchase the Maldives.
And doesn’t that mean there is very little seasonal variation there?
The previous President of the Maldives was also chasing money. Then Morner’s group went and measured. The sea level of the Maldives dropped 20-30 cm several decades ago. http://www.dsm.unile.it:8002/AbstractBook/Morner175_176.pdf
the bigger question is why the hell are you watching the Today Show?
get a job.
Bill P (11:37:26) :
I like her hat. I wonder what kind of animal that is.
Faux fur. Made from petroleum products!
Douglas, RE: “…I have little in the way of expectations…”
Nor I. I don’t want to malign daytime talk shows, but it appears that Today Show hosts are responsible for a fairly banal series of rituals that include: drinking coffee, making polite chatter, interviewing movie stars, and (if you want to be the hostess with the mostess), saving the planet.
Here she peddles a bike hooked up to a blender to, I guess, prevent some CO2 pollution.
http://newsbusters.org/node/12830
I’m not a follower of this show’s (or CBS’s) official positions on global warming, but I can guess what some of those positions are.
That hat is actually a live mongoose, that is attracted to the intense rodent characteristics of a network smooze reporter.
WTFAmerica:
If you close your eyes, you can’t see the elephant in the room.
Which elephant do you mean – Al Gore?
BTW, no one here is in favor of being wasteful. Of course conservation and energy efficiency is important. Consumption-driven? What nonsense. AGW propaganda has obviously addled your brain. Try some science for a change.
hello
WTFAmerica:
So you can nit-pick about little stuff, and therefore prove that global warming does not exist, and go back to your wasteful, consumtion-driven lives as if nothing is wrong. If you close your eyes, you can’t see the elephant in the room.
“The sun’ll come out tomorrow. Bet your bottom dollar there’ll be sun.”
…and it’ll vastly out-warm any/all CO2 emissions – anthropogenic or not.
Daniel, Can you see Kili from where you are?
When we flew into Arusha from Kenya, and on occasion during our climb above a certain level (I’d guess 10,000′), I recall seeing a solitary disk of clouds around the peak. This was in July.
Could you make any observations about the mountain’s cloud cover from one season to the next?
Phil’s Dad (07:50:14) :
Worth keeping an eye out for all those media reports with the head line “Arctic Ice Area Exceeds 30 Year Average”
Bet you won’t. That would be because the ‘pundits’ are not using the ’30 year average’, they use the ‘1979-2000’ average, for reasons I have yet to understand (except that the ‘real’ 30 year average would force them to use 1977-2007 and that would most likely show a lower average ice extent than 1979-2000.
“If you close your eyes, you can’t see the elephant in the room.”
Am I the only one who notices that people who make comments like this never back them up with any kind of argument or factual assertion?
@ Daniel
Ultimately the Sun causes both Global Warming and Global Cooling. CO2 does not produce energy, it merely absorbs and radiates energy ultimately provided by the Sun, just like water vapor, land, water, etc..
Fur hat? I think she is just having a bad hair day.
“Worth keeping an eye out for all those media reports with the head line “Arctic Ice Area Exceeds 30 Year Average”
Bet you won’t.”
Quite so. The MSM are still milking the ‘planet in peril’ story for all it’s worth. They’ll only drop it when it’s become completely untenable, and then they’ll get the max mileage out of the ‘planet not in peril, after all’ story – the main media value of which will depend on how long they can keep the ‘in peril’ story going.
Did you hear they found a new ring around Uranus?
Dill Weed
Climate buffoons.
How much CO2 have they emitted conducting these charades?
There’s some real good reading at RC right now. Gavin ‘s taking a beating.
Anthony – you may want to have a look.
Class act here.
http://www.astromart.com/forums/viewpost.asp?forum_post_id=634845&poll_id=&news_id=&page=
Here is something that they should put on T.V.
If the earth’s atmosphere were a box 100 feet by 100 feet that stood 100 feet tall:
The Nitrogen would occupy a box 92 feet by 92 feet by 92 feet tall.
The Oxygen would occupy a box 59 feet by 59 feet by 59 feet tall.
The Argon would occupy a box 21 feet by 21 feet by 21 feet tall
The CO2 would occupy a box 7 feet by 7 feet by 7 feet tall
The amount of CO2 increase annually is a box 1 foot by 1 foot by 1 foot tall.
The CO2 is a small minority gas that is increasing very slowly. It will take another 615 years at the current rate of change to reach 1000ppm, a level that is not toxic and is actually beneficial for increasing plant growth. 1000ppm is the level that commercial greenhouses try to maintain for rapid plant growth. At 1000 PPM the size of the CO2 box will be 10 feet by 10 feet by 10 feet.
There is no guarantee that the current rate of CO2 increase will continue unabated. The natural feedback mechanisms of the earth (plants and the ocean) will at some point begin to slow the rate of CO2 rise, just as it has in the past as evidenced by the historical record.
Gavin’s taking names and adjusting attitudes at RC!!!
Whales lost in Supreme Court.
Stock Market down 411 points.
They found a new ring around Uranus today.
Dill Weed
OT, I was looking at the REALCLIMATE web-site. They were talking about how the october temp data was messed up and skeptics had a field day. In the article they meantioned that Argos temp data was corrected and now fits the models better. Last I heard, Argos showed no ocean warming. I never heard about a correction. What’s going on with that?
Are CO2 levels not down since we are now using less oil now? Ah ha, that is why the earth is now cooling.
Darn, look, more CO2 coming:
An estimated 85.4 trillion cubic feet of “undiscovered, technically recoverable gas” is frozen in the state’s North Slope region, according to a U.S. Geological Survey study released by the Interior Department. The deposits could heat more than 100 million homes for a decade, the study says.
No problem, drilling will get banned on this asap.
Oh, I missed this part…
However, the study warned that further research is needed to determine the long-term impacts of the natural gas hydrates — essentially methane gas trapped in ice.
It’s already going to be banned….LOL
To Craig,
There is an explanation on Jennifer Marohasy’s site about correcting the Argos data:
http://jennifermarohasy.com/blog/2008/11/correcting-ocean-cooling-nasa-changes-data-to-fit-the-models/
It’s not real easy to follow the logic other than they are trying to balance the energy budget. Perhaps it can be put in laymen’s term by someone who might also be able to tell if this visit to the data massage parlor is to work out a kink or just do something kinky.
Sean (16:20:33) This controversy about Argos is connected I think with the Jason sea level information which was showing a plateauing and even a possible drop until the data publication was suspended for unspecified technical reasons. The combination of a sea level rise halt and slight cooling for several years from the Argos buoys suggested that there was no ‘extra heat’ stored in the oceans, which would savage some of the hopes and dreams of the CO2=AGW true believers.
I guess we’ll just have to see how ocean temperatures and sea levels progress from here. Too bad the models are given precedence and when they don’t fit with the ongoing delivery of data, then the data is questioned and massaged.
Diogenes, wherefore art thou?
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I’m a long time lurker here and want to say thanks to Anthony and others working on this site as well as to the commenters for the quality of the information and discussion here. I thought I’d pass along this article, which is sort of on topic regarding institutional investors and their push to encourage industry to cut greenhouse gas emissions. I think it’s just the beginning:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE4AA1CM20081111
Haven’t seen this over here.
Ryan Maue posted this dumb stunt over at CA.
http://www.climateaudit.org/?p=4224#comment-311164
“”Bill P (12:58:24) :
There is an old legend about …
Thought you were going to tell us the story about that leopard at the top.
Who is Cordell Hull anyway? “”
Well bill your youth is showing.
Cordell Hull was Secretary of State dring the Roosevelt presidency in 1941, and is the chap who received the Japanese ambassador moments after receiving the news of the Pearl Harbor attack; when the Ambassador presented what amounted to a Japanese Ultimatum; that was supposed to have been delivered to the US BEFORE the Pearl Harbotr attack happened. Due to a screwup in decoding the messages arrived and were translated too late, and so the Japanese message was not in time.
Admiral Yamamoto was mighty steamed that the Japanese Samurai tradition, of waking up your enemy before you killed him, had not been complied with.
Cordell Hull’s statement to the Japanese Ambassador (who himself didn’;t know of the attack’s occurrence) was a masterpiece of Diplomatic language.
So that is who the hell Cordell Hull was.
Those of us who have looked at the CO2 data and the lack of compelling scientific evidence that CO2 drives global warming scratch our heads when we see articles like the one Mary M pointed to. How could so many opinion leaders world-wide (they must be intelligent to be in the positions they are in) come to the conclusion that these drastic measures to reduce greenhouse gases are a wise and effective thing to do?
I was very struck by Michael Crichton’s 2007 interview with Charlie Rose that Cathy pointed to (thank you Cathy!). In it, he was talking about how interesting it is that no one wants to look at data. That everyone just wants to read polical summaries and make policy from those. He mused that perhaps people are turning away from science. That science is not viewed as important as it used to be viewed. He was also expressing chagrin about the increasing tendency to devalue human life in favor of “saving the planet.”
It is a tragedy that Michael Crichton has died and will no longer be around to present his ideas, such as those presented in “State of Fear.” He had the ability to present complex scientific issues in ways that were so entertaining that people would actually read and think about them.
I fear that the real agenda of the Envirnomental Elitists (OK read “wacko” if you want to) is this:
1) They want to prevent everyone in the world (including those of us in the US)from living the standard of living we enjoy today here in the US because they don’t think the global environment can tolerate that.
2) They want the world population growth to stop NOW, and even reduce. And they are not willing to wait around for this to occur gradually as third-world countries catch up to industrial countries regarding reduced fertility rates. So they institute a ban on DDT–that alone has reduced the world population by 10s of millions. They want to institute policies that drastically and artificially (through government regulation) increase the cost of fuel, thereby shutting third-world farmers out of the possibility of growing enough food to support their families and communities. Untold millions will fail to thrive and reproduce under this scenario–more positive results from the environmentalists’ point of view! They ignore genocide in Africa and let the horrible conditions there play out on their own, resulting in thousands or millions of premature deaths from starvation, disease, and death during war. All resulting in fewer mouths to feed today and in the future! Hurray!
Sounds cynical, but how else can you explain the complete abandonment of reasoned policy decisions based at least in part on scientific evidence?
OT, but some of you maybe interested in reading these articles from CNN and TIME.
New nano coating boosts solar efficiency
http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science/11/12/solar.coating/index.html
25. Thin-Film Solar Panels
http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1852747_1854195_1854153,00.html
@Mark Smith.
Another possibility for the MSM to maximise advertising revenue once the “planet in peril” meme is exhausted, is to start on the “scandals in high places”.
Imagine the MSM beating it’s chest and declaring the return of “True Investigative Journalism” as they heroically hound down the purveyors of the AGW fraud. in that event there are sure to be be a few useful 2nd tier scapegoats to be thrown to the media wolves.
I’ll bring the popcorn.
@andrea vianello
If you want more immediate science news, check out http://www.physorg.com and http://www.slashdot.org. By the time the news filters to the major networks (CNN, Time, Fox, BBC), several days have passed.
@Bill P
Sorry, I’m a good 4 hour bus ride south of Kili and can’t see it. I’ve only been to Moshi a half dozen times in the two years I’ve lived in Tanzania and seen the mountain maybe 3 times due to clouds. I will note that this year was considerably cooler than last year and the coolness lasted longer (thank God! I thought I would die last year!). Of course, I don’t have even a cheapo thermometer so I can’t report actual temps, just how I felt.
A couple more interesting links:
Earth would freeze without AGW:
http://www.physorg.com/news145725882.html
Doubt about AGW caused amphibian die-off:
http://www.physorg.com/news145707986.html
@ George Smith “Well bill your youth is showing.”
I’m 56, and should probably have recognized Evan’s reference, since I am ready enough to be appalled at other people’s ignorance of WW II and other history. Thanks for the refresher. I also appreciated Cordell Hull’s “diplomacy” in response to the waiting Japanese Ambassadors (who were unaware of the attack) on the Pearl Harbor attack. From Wiki:
Sean (16:20:33) :
kim (16:40:53) :
I see the ‘Blogosphere’ is starting to get all the ‘excuses’ ready as they watch global temperatures start their rise again, good old conspiracy theories always find their way out.
Kim, despite your insistance of a La Nina developing because all the signs you want to see say it will, it isn’t happening. All the signs are suggesting an El Nino developing later next year, kind of scuppers your PDO -ive causing global cooling doesn’t it?
[…] Another dumb climate stunt from NBC – climbing Kilimanjaro You may recall NBC’s Today show sending out their correspondents to all ends of the earth to highlight […] […]
Science Daily news just published a report that states that “Global Warming Link to Amphibian Declines in Doubt”. How can that be possbile? I thought a .5 degree increase in global temperature over a 150 year period after a global cooling spell was the explanation for every extinction, hurricane, flood, drought and change to any species or environment the whole world over?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/11/081112113708.htm
I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact that the parent company, General Electric, is looking to get millions in government subsidies for its “green technology”, hence the company-wide effort to scare the public.
During halftime of Sunday Night {American} Football on NBC, Meredith Vieira came on to reveal the locations they’ve gone to, where they’ll hit the environmental hot-button issues:
Meredith is in Sydney. Bet that in covering the drought there she’ll forget to mention that such severe droughts are a recurring event in Australia and that the current drought is felt more because of a failure to develop additional infrastructure with which they could better cope.
Matt is in Belize scuba diving to hit on the deaths of coral reefs — the oceans are getting hot and killing all the reefs, don’t you know.
Ann, of course, we already know is trekking up Kilimanjaro. Doubt she’ll ever say anything about how the decreasing ice is more a result of man’s impact on the microclimate through deforestation and has nothing to do with AGW.
And Al is reporting from Iceland – fire and ice. Bet he’ll be covering geothermal energy. Perhaps a word or two about melting glaciers will get fit in as well.
And all the while this week we’ll be getting the green bird from GE. They’ll probably be another company to queue up to Washington for some of that bail-out money.
Having just climbed Kili this past March I can attest to the difficulty. We actually took 7 days up and 2 to come down on the Lemosho Route . Oxygen is normally only given due to HAPE ( high altitude pulmonary edema ). If you receive oxygen it usually means you are going one way and that is down.
This is just more global warming hype by a network whose parent company GE stands to benefit greatly from “green” legislation. The Today show should be required to disclose that this is nothing more than a “special advertising” segment.
Although the mountain can be climbed in 5 days, a very low percentage of people can adjust to altitude that quickly. A 7-day route is much more reasonable. If you are going to spend the money to climb Kili, you might as well try to enjoy it. That being said, I believe Ann Curry is spending 9 days on the moutain (8 days up, 1 down).
Don’t they get it? Global warming means no more jetsetting!!!!
Her reporting is wrong. The Chagga not the Massai are climbing with her but of course Massai is one of the few tribes known in the west so she just blurted that out. She should not be “struggling” already even without having trained because it is not a difficult climb until the last day (summit day) and the day before when some people start getting sick. It’s not as if someone like her doesn’t exercise regularly probably with a trainer on the tv lot and that is enough training. While she did admit she is eating well which is true, no way is she eating local food the way she led people to believe, they cook delicious food for the western climbers we had popcorn and hot beverages (chocolate/tea/coffee) every day after the climb and delicious soup followed by pasta or potatoes and chicken or meat. We had eggs for breakfast and toast and peanut butter and butter.
Don’t even get me started on her alluding to having oxygen only the really lame Japanese tourists take oxygen with them and everyone else snickers at them, if she is climbing taking some hits of oxygen when the cameras are off she is totally cheating.
The glaciers are melting because Kili and the Iceland area where Al is are ACTIVE volcanoes so the heat is coming from inside the earth due to natural geothermal energy there for thousands of years not some man-made reason. That is why they have the hot springs like the blue lagoon in Iceland.
Glaciers grow when precipitation increases and shrink when precipitation decreases. Therefore Kilimanjaro is getting less precipitation. The slight atmospheric warming from the late 1970s to the late 1990s cannot account for shrinking glaciers. Kilimanjaro’s glaciers have shrunk due to less precipitation. I didn’t see NBC’s report. Did it discuss precipitation trends? I doubt it. When anthropogenic global warming theory finally dies I think lawsuits are in order for these clowns in government and the media.
I note that that Ann & crew quit without getting much more than halfway up. Too cold, wet. And probably too many polar bears and leopards. All that global warming made the trek too difficult.
Flatlanders…
This was a scam. Sobel advises they never intended to summit, but get high enough for some photo ops.