Note: I don’t normally allow the discussion of things related to Nazi Germany here, including discouraging the use of the word “denier” due to it’s “Holocaust Denier” connotations. But this full page ad in the Sunday papers in Britain, touting “climate crime” and “climate cops” is just a bit over the top, and deserves some attention. It is particularly relevant since the sponsoring website climatecops.com has a teachers section, and we’ve just seen some sensibility from Schwarzenegger in Sacramento on this very issue. I find this method of indoctrinating school children to normal everyday living being harmful to the earth with the “climate crime” connotation as distasteful and wrong headed. I have no problems with energy conservation, in fact I encourage it. But combining such advice with a “climate cop” idea is the wrong way to get the message across. Can you imagine what sort of reaction the neighbors will have to the kids hanging this door hanger on their front door? Will the result of this now be hiding your electric dryer behind false walls so the kids and neighbors don’t see it?
At the very least, npower could have chosen a different color scheme: red, black and white are the same three colors used in the flag of Nazi Germany What were they thinking? – Anthony
Reposted from the website EU referendum:
Can I be the only one more than a little disturbed by the latest campaign to be fronted by energy company npower?
Launched today with large colour ads in the Sundays, it appeals directly to children, urging them to enlist as “climate cops”, to root out “climate crimes“, and thus “save the planet”.
In a luridly-designed website, mimicking the style of “yoof” cartoons, it offers a bundle of downloads, including a pack of “climate crime cards“, urging its recruits to spy on families, friends and relatives, inviting each of them to build up a “climate crime case file” in order to help them ensure their putative criminals do not “commit those crimes again (or else)!”
Quite what the “or else!” should be is not specified, but since the “climate cops” are being encouraged to keep detailed written records (for those who can read and write), there is nothing to stop these being submitted to the “Climate Cops HQ” for further sanctions, the repeat offenders being sent to re-education camps. And for those “climate cops” that successfully perform the “missions” set (or turn in their own parents), there is the reward of “training” in the “Climate Cop Academy”.
In a system which has echoes of Hitler’s Deutsches Jungvolk movement, and the Communist regime Pioneers, perhaps successful graduates can work up to becoming block wardens, then street and district “climate crime Führers”, building a network of spies and informers.
How nicely this ties in with James Hansen’s call to put the chief executives of large fossil fuel companies on trial for high crimes against humanity and nature, accusing them of actively spreading doubt about global warming.
No doubt, with a willing band of “climate cops”, the prosecutors can spread their nets wider, reaching into the homes of all climate change deniers, until the insidious virus of doubt is exterminated (final solution, anyone?). Then we can all march on the sunlit uplands of a “carbon-free” planet – to the tune of Ode to Joy no doubt.
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If anyone has a rational argument to dispute Al Gore’s data
Julius, AIT the movie is so riddled with errors and untruths, hardly anything in it is true.
If you disagree, then take my AIT challenge. Pick 3 consecutive sentences from the movie. The only condition is that the three sentences must refer to temperatures or ice.
Then I will point out the error in those sentences. You can choose any 3 sentences you like.
Apologies for being OT.
The more things change……….
This is quite disturbing, kids should be kids until they cannot be anymore.
Children should not be encouraged to “police” their parents, friends and family because the impact on society is well understood, when it comes to children this type of recruiting and pattern programming is a terrible lesson to teach a child. What kind of generation will we raise, one who spys and records others activities, believes that they have the right to interfere in the lives of others and dictate lifestyle? Is that the future we really want?
This is not about Climate Change, this is about the society that we will become.
Julius
This is a bit off-topic, but that bit about “the most rapid rise in temperature in geological history” raised my hackle. It is a pure and simple lie, and while Al Gore probably does not know enough to realize this his advisors must do. Global temperatures have risen something like 0,6 degrees centigrade in about a century and there are many known cases of much more abrupt climate shifts. In some of them the temperature change *per year* may have been larger than the rise during the last century. The most obvious recent examples happened 8200, 11600 and 12800 years ago. If you don’t believe me just google “Younger Dryas”.
This thread had stirred the creative juices and I have realized what we lack on TV is a reality show where a houseful of Greens attempt to win a million dollars by seeing who can reduce their carbon footprint the most in the course of a year.
Each Green’s total annual net carbon output is measured and the Green with the lowest wins.
The show would be called, what else but ‘Big Carbon.’ Suicide would be permitted as a way to lower one’s carbon footprint, but the carbon released during decomposition would have to be included.
@Julus
The reason I don’t have any suggestions how to stop climate change is because I firmly believe that there is NOTHING anyone can do to stop climate change (nor do I believe that there was anything we did to start it). Also, I don’t drive an SUV – I drive a MONSTER V-8 in a HUGE Pickup Truck. Then again, I can’t see trying to haul a pair of 1300 lbs horses around behind a Pirus.
Convince me there is man-made climate change. Where are your facts?
This may be a UK thing not a climate thing. Under the Labour government the UK has pioneered a series of steps by which acts against which there is no law are criminalized. And under which accusations substitute for proof. The first step was the ASBO, by which someone can be forbidden to do something not in itself illegal, and not illegal for anyone else, under pain of criminal penalties. Like, for instance, set foot in a given street, make sarcastic remarks.
We then have the power of on the spot fines by local government officials. A recent case was two men smoking while driving in a van. They were accused by an official of smoking in a place of work, and each fined $50 on the spot. No proof that this was indeed a place of work, no presentation of evidence. This was reported to have happened in Wales.
Another example is the proposal that people accused of illegal downloading shall be disconnected by their ISP. Not proven to have. Just accused of. Not prosecuted, disconnected or throttled.
It is now proposed to deny IVF treatment from the compulsory membership health service to smokers and ‘the obese’. Family courts meet in secret, its an offense even to mention the name of anyone who has been before them, their decisions are not subject to appeal, and they routinely assign children for adoption or make orders disposing of other family matters.
The issue with this is not AGW. Its what has happened to civil liberties in the UK. The AGW people are just jumping on. What you see in the UK today is a combination of things:
– substitution of accusation for proof
– sanctions imposed by bodies other than courts
– non-legislative criminalization of activities which are not unlawful
They have in place the full apparatus of the authoritarian state. The only thing holding it back is habit and the goodwill of the current ruling party. History shows this has not been a robust defense
Well, guys don’t be to worried…
You forget negative feedbacks. AGW religion is all good and well now, when it means people “are more aware when travelling on planes”. Or “consider buying a hybrid”.
Just wait until the fuel bills gets to high or unemployment increases due to this, then people might want to look more closely on things. Anyway the BS factor is already pushing it. More and more people get sceptical because it’s just not credible…
This is so close to children being indoctrinated into spying on their own families in case of “thought crime” that Orwell envisioned that I have actually shit in my pants through fear.
Just a couple of comments, Mr fred (00:44:17).
The Family courts in England and Wales (different legal system in Scotland, I don’t know whether the same applies there) have not been open to the public since they were first established. It is nothing to do with secrecy but to protect the interests of the child who is an innocent party. Whether it serves any real purpose can be debated, but it is not new and it is not based on anything sinister. And appeals are allowed from family court decisions, often this requires permission from the court or the appellate court but that applies to almost all civil court decisions here.
As for your suggestion that the goodwill of the current ruling party is holding back a move to authoritarianism, words fail me. Well, not quite … the current government has introduced more State snooping and petty interference in the way we live than any government in our history, and they aren’t finished yet. Their plans include a State controlled database of all telephone, text message and internet use – yes, that is not a typo, they really have proposed it.
On your general theme of penalties being imposed for activities which are not criminal, sadly everything is outlawed which the State does not specifically permit. There is an interesting comparison with the US Constitution which operates by recognising that people have innate rights which the State is not permitted to violate. For example, the US Constitution does not GRANT the right of freedom of speech because it is not the State’s to grant, rather it recognises that freedom of speech is a right the State has no power to violate; the Constitution defines the limits of what government may do not the limits of what the people may do. Over here we have The Human Rights Act 1986 which expressly operates in reverse. Rights, such as freedom of speech, which were previously innate now exist because the State decided to take to itself all rights and grant some back to the little people. In this way it is not necessary for activity to be made specifically criminal before a penalty can be imposed, a penalty can be imposed simply because the activity in question is not one we have been granted the right to perform. It is really quite hideous.
A complaint to the (UK) Advertising Standards Authority is being actively considered. However, it is not entirely straightforward. More details here.
I am ashamed to be British – millions died last century for nothing if we let this continue.
Global Warming is a fact. The debate is not whether there is global warming, but what is causing it. Are humans a scourge to the planet the way the GW crowd wants to paint it?
I can take you to central Kansas in the heart of North America and show you formations from when that part of the world was covered by the sea. Archaeologists the world over are now discovering ancient ruins of cities thought to be myths under water in the Mediterranean and other places around the world.
We’ve had ice ages with miles thick ice over what are now major cities. The Sahara Desert was once a tropical oasis.
Go talk to space meteorologists who are wondering why global warming is happening on several other bodies in our solar system.
Some of the geologists and archaeologists who study these things are probably part of the 33,000 scientists who have signed a petition “denying” the climate-changers premise.
We live on a volatile planet that changes constantly and sometimes drastically.
Are human polluting and hurting the environment? Yes. Should we take every reasonable step to mend our ways? Absolutely.
The leaders of the climate change movement are using these normal and natural changes and mixing it with legitimate concern for the environment and creating an excuse for controlling every person on this planet.
This is not about SUVs. It’s about human freedom and the right experience our lives in our own way without a government bureaucrat watching our every move.
So when some of us react the highly charged word “denier” and calls for children to spy on and tattle on their parents, it is with good reason. Using the word denier is nothing less than an Ad Hominem attack designed to stifle discussion.
Several people have brought up Orwell’s 1984. That book is very instructive here. How much control and infringement on your person do you suppose will be necessary for the government to monitor your carbon footprint?
Whilst I agree wholeheartedly that this Ad campaign is sinister and very worrying, I think the best thing about this wonderful site has always been its steady and insistent examination of the science (or lack of it) behind the whole climate change debacle, leaving the political arguments to others and enlightening scientists and lay people alike.
I’m slightly concerned therefore that anyone new to this blog (and I for one am constantly referring friends seeking info on climate change to visit here) might get the impression that we’re a just bunch of political fanatics. I know how tempting it is….I was halfway through writing a treatise on the erosion of civil liberties in the UK (where I used to live) and Australia before I stopped myself…
The mainstream press in Australia are being increasingly drawn into the political debate by the crazy acts of demagoguery and extremism such as this Ad. They’re very good at exposing this kind of madness. Perhaps we would be better off focusing on the science, as this is ultimately the instrument that will undo this unholy mess and leaving the indignation to the popular press. In the end, I guess, ignorant trash like this can only harm the reputations of its perpetrators.
Actually, the word “denier” is not inappropriate in this context. The context is the global warming crowd which somehow is in utter denial over all the observational evidence that has disproved their CO2 climate-driver theory, many times over. As far as I can tell, there is presently zero observational evidence that supports this theory. Zero. And vast quantities of data that prove it wrong, not least of which is the fact that for the last ten years, co2 has gone up, while temperatures have gone down. Same thing happened between 1940 and 1970. In the last 100 years, there has been no correlation whatsoever between CO2 and climate. How all these global warmers are able to maintain their state of denial over these scientific facts is troublesome. I guess trying to indoctrinate unsuspecting school children is easier than facing up to the reality which is that their theory has been completely disproven by the scientific community.
Apologies if this has already been mentioned but I have not spotted it.
The first major UK off-shore wind farm – North Hoyle off the North Wales coast – was originally presented as a joint venture between n-power (when it’s organisational structure was such that it had more than a retailing role iirc) and Greenpeace.
North Hoyle, last time I was able to check any form of information about output, seemed to be maxing at about 34% of total theoretical capacity. Somewhere around 2 years after it went into production Greenpeace and then n-power (I think by that time this particular operation had been absorbed into the German owned RWE operation – it’s difficult to tell sometimes since the number of re-organisations and apparent ownership changes seems enormous. Possibly to do with tax and subsidies) sold out to a middle eastern venture finance group and a ‘back-room’ UK (?) based organisation to front the running of the thing.
What amused me at the time was that Greenpeace would snuggle up so closely with RWE who were and are (afaik) a major operator of nuclear plants in Germany. Obviously the driving philosophy has changed since Greenpeace was set up all those years ago and established an appeal to my generation.
Tax breaks and subsidies lead to strange bedfellows.
The kid’s web site is, in my opinion, insidious no matter what one’s view of climate issue might be. Really a form of grooming.
Hopefully it will enlighten a few more of the middle ground majority to what is going on behind their backs. Their response may tell us something about the direction green related decisions will take in the immediate future.
Just had to get in on this one,
AE General and Daryl hit the CO2 where it lives – how can you train your kids to be skeptics yet respect rightful authority? Wow! What’s maddening about this situation is that these types of curricula are taking the respect children have for their parents and throwing it into the wind turbine.
I’ve had good teachers and bad, but only in retrospect did I understand that. Having become a teacher (instructor) later in life, I hope I emulate those who have stood the test of time.
Who would have thought the AGW argument would cut so deeply into our most basic unit, the family!
Six million jews killed and Anhtony Watts compares it to hiding dryers? You’ve lost it, dude.
REPLY: We’ll see, there’s a lot of people that agree that the method is wrong. Unfortunately for you, you don’t seem to care about the method, since it promotes something you believe in. Telling others that I’ve “lost it” is a typical tactic to minimize one’s opponent – label them crazy. Surely you can do better.
You might work on spelling too.
Folks, this is just an advertising gimmick to get kids moderately interested in science and the environment, just like The Magic Schoolbus and Captain Planet were back in the day.
While I don’t agree with the style of this campaign, I can’t imagine even the most fervent climate change denier objecting to the message: conserve water and use less energy.
REPLY: I personally don’t object to the message, which is “conserve energy” in fact I encourage it, and do such things myself, including drivin and electric car to/from work each day.
But it is the METHOD that is objected to and strongly. The method is wrong headed. – Anthony
If this doesn’t send chills down your spine, go read “The Killing Fields” and see how the Khmer Rouge used the children to root out the parents that were a threat to the revolution.
I read this last night and my mind would not let go of it. I was tired and went to bed, but failed to go to sleep. Different ideas and phrases kept popping up.
I like the idea of taking out ad space. I believe you should investigate late late night ad on cable TV [15 second spot]. I would not try to defend any position in the ad. Create a series of interesting headlines and then give link for more information. This link would give individuals access to the best science research and theories on climate change. Another section could link to news reports about changing weather patterns. Another section devoted to satellite photos comparing different time frames for the Polar Regions, Greenland and other areas of interest. And yet another section on how temperatures are taken around the United States and/or the World. Other information could include debunking the polar bear myth, history of polar bear photo Gore used, the 8 factual errors in Inconvenient Truth, hints or tips about being green and efficient [cfls’ wonderful, but dangerous if broken and how to dispose of them] and many other topics.
Another idea would be to record a series of short videos on some of the same material listed above. Videos should be 5-10 minutes and done by those that are both passionate and well spoken. On cable there is a channel called Current. It is basically viewer created content and might be another place to put short videos.
The link from the ad [s] might be something like: in defense of science; science requires proof or some similar set of words.
Headlines are the tricky part and maybe we have some copywriters or ad people that could help. Here are a few:
Lies, Numbers, and Truth
What do they have in common?
Manipulation!!!!
Is there another side?
Is the debate closed?
Has science spoken?
Do you like it hot?
Do you like it cold?
Do you know what’s going on?
What drives it?
A couple of weeks ago Gore was on Meet the Press. I tried to watch, but I switched away every few minutes because of what he was saying and the fact that Brokaw did not challenge him. I thought about that show and then wrote Mr. Brokaw a letter/e-mail informing him that that “consensus” was a myth and then provided him links to several papers and articles. I don’t expect a response, but maybe others could follow my example. I have decided to send a similar letter to the main editor of my local newspaper. This paper has done some good to great investigate reporting. Am going to ask them why they have failed to report on the other side of the man-made global warming issue and give them the same or similar links showing the other side. I don’t know if this will be effective, but it’s a start.
Love the conversations here!
debby
Liberal Fascism: In U.K. Kids Asked to Become Climate NARCs…
Yes, environmentalism is a religion. And across the pond in the ever-devolving U.K., it seems to be second only to Islam. This is right out of Nazi Germany or Orwell’s 1984. A British energy company — yes a company —……
No one is connecting the dots concerning the parallels between indoctrination of EU children and where Obama will take us. He proposes national service for all young adults and a similar program for young children through the school structure. His buddy, former Weatherman, Comrade Bill Ayers, will become head of the Dept of Education.
See: http://www.city-journal.org/2008/eon0423ss.html for a description of the real Bill Ayers. Scary.
Future teachers all currently being indoctrinated in the education schools of universities with teaching methods to propagandize children with appropriate doctrines.
Pay attention to what Obama says. There is no mystery as to his plan for the US, rampant socialism.
Two quotes from De Tocqueville are instructive:
“Democracy and socialism have nothing in common but one word, equality. But notice the difference: while democracy seeks equality in liberty, socialism seeks equality in restraint and servitude.”
” The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public’s money.”
If Obama is elected and the Democrats get veto prof majorities in both Houses of Congress, kiss your asses goodbye.
What is the modern equivalent of ‘Fiddling while Rome burns’?
This exchange of e-mails looks more like ‘. . . . . . . . . while the ice caps melt’!
I find this “discussion” utterly fascinating. That is good, Julius. Stick around – you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. Check out some of the other threads as has been suggested, if you are more interested in the scientific aspect. The political side is an extremely important one, though, thanks to the AGWers, who have decided “the debate is over”, “the consensus is overwhelming”, ” we must act immediately to save our planet from climate doom”, and other alarmist nonsense.
Is this the site where all the climate change deniers gather?
First, Julius, the phrase “climate change deniers” is a perjorative one, as I’m sure you must know. It is also inaccurate, since no one here claims that the climate isn’t changing – of course it is, it has always changed, and always will. We are in general either Skeptics or Climate Realists, and I certainly wouldn’t say “all”, but certainly many, as this is known as a top notch site.
The first thing I notice is that while everyone is anxious to denounce the “Climate Cops” campaign (it does sound like an obnoxious idea regardless of the ideology)…
Congratulations for noticing the obnoxious quality of the idea – that’s at least a start, and puts you ahead of most AGWers, who probably applaud it.
…nobody – that’s NOBODY –in this thread is bothering to discuss any of the FACTS regarding climate change. That is because that isn’t what this thread is about, Julius. Stick to the topic at hand.
Weren’t Captain Planet and the Planeteers throwing eco-criminals in prison at around the same time as Hansen’s first Congressional testimony, all the while advocating some sort of hippy Gaia-worship? This all sounds like some dumb ad campaign to get kids more conservation-minded. Please pardon me if I don’t see terrible socialist undertones to the whole thing.