NOTE: Earlier today I posted a paper from Joe D’Aleo on how he has found strong correlations between the oceans multidecadal oscillations, PDO and AMO, and surface temperature, followed by finding no strong correlation between CO2 and surface temperatures. See that article here:
Warming Trend: PDO And Solar Correlate Better Than CO2
Now within hours of that, Roy Spencer of the National Space Science and Technology Center at University of Alabama, Huntsville, sends me and others this paper where he postulates that the ocean may be the main driver of CO2.
In the flurry of emails that followed, Joe D’Aleo provided this graph of CO2 variations correlated by El Nino/La Nina /Volcanic event years which is relevant to the discussion. Additionally for my laymen readers, a graph of CO2 solubility in water versus temperature is also relevant and both are shown below:
Click for full size images
Additionally, I’d like to point out that former California State Climatologist Jim Goodridge posted a short essay on this blog, Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide Variation, that postulated something similar.
UPDATE: This from Roy on Monday 1/28/08 see new post on C12 to C13 ratio here
I want to (1) clarify the major point of my post, and (2) report some new (C13/C12 isotope) results:
1. The interannual relationship between SST and dCO2/dt is more than enough to explain the long term increase in CO2 since 1958. I’m not claiming that ALL of the Mauna Loa increase is all natural…some of it HAS to be anthropogenic…. but this evidence suggests that SST-related effects could be a big part of the CO2 increase.
2. NEW RESULTS: I’ve been analyzing the C13/C12 ratio data from Mauna Loa. Just as others have found, the decrease in that ratio with time (over the 1990-2005 period anyway) is almost exactly what is expected from the depleted C13 source of fossil fuels. But guess what? If you detrend the data, then the annual cycle and interannual variability shows the EXACT SAME SIGNATURE. So, how can decreasing C13/C12 ratio be the signal of HUMAN emissions, when the NATURAL emissions have the same signal???
-Roy
Here is Roy Spencer’s essay, without any editing or commentary:
Atmospheric CO2 Increases:
Could the Ocean, Rather Than Mankind, Be the Reason?
by
Roy W. Spencer
1/25/2008
This is probably the most provocative hypothesis I have ever (and will ever) advance: The long-term increases in carbon dioxide concentration that have been observed at Mauna Loa since 1958 could be driven more than by the ocean than by mankind’s burning of fossil fuels.
Most, if not all, experts in the global carbon cycle will at this point think I am totally off my rocker. Not being an expert in the global carbon cycle, I am admittedly sticking my neck out here. But, at a minimum, the results I will show make for a fascinating story – even if my hypothesis is wrong. While the evidence I will show is admittedly empirical, I believe that a physically based case can be made to support it.
But first, some acknowledgements. Even though I have been playing with the CO2 and global temperature data for about a year, it was the persistent queries from a Canadian engineer, Allan MacRae, who made me recently revisit this issue in more detail. Also, the writings of Tom V. Segalstad, a Norwegian geochemist, were also a source of information and ideas about the carbon cycle.
First, let’s start with what everyone knows: that atmospheric carbon dioxide concentrations, and global-averaged surface temperature, have risen since the Mauna Loa CO2 record began. These are illustrated in the next two figures.


Both are on the increase, an empirical observation that is qualitatively consistent with the “consensus” view that increasing anthropogenic CO2 emissions are causing the warming. Note also that they both have a “bend” in them that looks similar, which might also lead one to speculate that there is a physical connection between them.
Now, let’s ask: “What is the empirical evidence that CO2 is driving surface temperature, and not the other way around?” If we ask that question, then we are no longer trying to explain the change in temperature with time (a heat budget issue), but instead we are dealing with what is causing the change in CO2 concentration with time (a carbon budget issue). The distinction is important. In mathematical terms, we need to analyze the sources and sinks contributing to dCO2/dt, not dT/dt.
So, let us look at the yearly CO2 input into the atmosphere based upon the Mauna Loa record, that is, the change in CO2 concentration with time (Fig. 3).

Here I have expressed the Mauna Loa CO2 concentration changes in million metric tons of carbon (mmtC) per year so that they can be compared to the human emissions, also shown in the graph.
Now, compare the surface temperature variations in Fig. 2 with the Mauna Loa-derived carbon emissions in Fig. 3. They look pretty similar, don’t they? In fact, the CO2 changes look a lot more like the temperature changes than the human emissions do. The large interannual fluctuations in Mauna Loa-derived CO2 “emissions” roughly coincide with El Nino and La Nina events, which are also periods of globally-averaged warmth and coolness, respectively. I’ll address the lag between them soon.
Of some additional interest is the 1992 event. In that case, cooling from Mt. Pinatubo has caused the surface cooling, and it coincides in a dip in the CO2 change rate at Mauna Loa.
These results beg the question: are surface temperature variations a surrogate for changes in CO2 sources and/or sinks?
First, let’s look at the strength of the trends in temperature and CO2-inferred “emissions”. If we compare the slopes of the regression lines in Figs. 2 and 3, we get an increase of about 4300 mmt of carbon at Mauna Loa for every degree C. of surface warming. Please remember that ratio (4,300 mmtC/deg. C), because we are now going to look at the same relationship for the interannual variability seen in Figs. 2 and 3.
In Fig. 4 I have detrended the time series in Figs. 2 and 3, and plotted the residuals against each other. We see that the interannual temperature-versus-Mauna Loa-inferred emissions relationship has a regression slope of about 5,100 mmtC/deg. C.
There is little evidence of any time lag between the two time series, give or take a couple of months.

So, what does this all show? A comparison of the two slope relationships (5100 mmtC/yr for interannual variability, versus 4,700 mmtC/yr for the trends) shows, at least empirically, that whatever mechanism is causing El Nino and La Nina to modulate CO2 concentrations in the atmosphere is more than strong enough to explain the long-term increase in CO2 concentration at Mauna Loa. So, at least based upon this empirical evidence, invoking mankind’s CO2 emissions is not even necessary. (I will address how this might happen physically, below).
In fact, if we look at several different temperature averaging areas (global, N. H. land, N.H. ocean, N.H. land + ocean, and S.H. ocean), the highest correlation occurs for the Southern Hemisphere ocean , and with a larger regression slope of 7,100 mmtC/deg. C. This suggests that the oceans, rather than land, could be the main driver of the interannual fluctuations in CO2 emissions that are being picked up at Mauna Loa — especially the Southern Ocean.
Now, here’s where I’m really going to stick my neck out — into the mysterious discipline of the global carbon cycle. My postulated physical explanation will involve both fast and slow processes of exchange of CO2 between the atmosphere and the surface.
The evidence for rapid exchange of CO2 between the ocean and atmosphere comes from the fact that current carbon cycle flux estimates show that the annual CO2 exchange between surface and atmosphere amounts to 20% to 30% of the total amount in the atmosphere. This means that most of the carbon in the atmosphere is recycled through the surface every five years or so. From Segalstad’s writings, the rate of exchange could even be faster than this. For instance, how do we know what the turbulent fluxes in and out of the wind-driven ocean are? How would one measure such a thing locally, let alone globally?
Now, this globally averaged situation is made up of some regions emitting more CO2 than they absorb, and some regions absorbing more than they emit. What if there is a region where there has been a long-term change in the net carbon flux that is at least as big as the human source?
After all, the human source represents only 3% (or less) the size of the natural fluxes in and out of the surface. This means that we would need to know the natural upward and downward fluxes to much better than 3% to say that humans are responsible for the current upward trend in atmospheric CO2. Are measurements of the global carbon fluxes much better than 3% in accuracy?? I doubt it.
So, one possibility would be a long-term change in the El Nino / La Nina cycle, which would include fluctuations in the ocean upwelling areas off the west coasts of the continents. Since these areas represent semi-direct connections to deep-ocean carbon storage, this could be one possible source of the extra carbon (or, maybe I should say a decreasing sink for atmospheric carbon?).
Let’s say the oceans are producing an extra 1 unit of CO2, mankind is producing 1 unit, and nature is absorbing an extra 1.5 units. Then we get the situation we have today, with CO2 rising at about 50% the rate of human emissions.
If nothing else, Fig. 3 illustrates how large the natural interannual changes in CO2 are compared to the human emissions. In Fig. 5 we see that the yearly-average CO2 increase at Mauna Loa ends up being anywhere from 0% of the human source, to 130%.
It seems to me that this is proof that natural net flux imbalances are at least as big as the human source.

Could the long-term increase in El Nino conditions observed in recent decades (and whatever change in the carbon budget of the ocean that entails) be more responsible for increasing CO2 concentrations than mankind? At this point, I think that question is a valid one.
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I have not been able to read all the good comments here yet, but will do so.
My related article was posted Jan.31/08 with a spreadsheet on http://icecap.us/
Roy Spencer and I have been discussing this subject since I emailed him on Dec. 31/07.
Here are further thoughts from Richard Courtney, with my comments, posted on climate skeptics:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/climatesceptics/message/44900
I sincerely thank Richard S. Courtney for getting my point. I am not trying to prove Veizer correct in this paper; it would be sufficient to merely prove the IPCC is incorrect – the future can not cause the past…
… In personal correspondence, which I quote with Richard’s explicit permission, he wrote:
“The data show what they show: i.e. when an ST change happens then a CO2 change happens 9 months later. This is a clear demonstration that it is physically impossible for the CO2 change to be the cause of the ST change (this is because – in the absence of a time machine – an effect cannot occur before its cause exists). And it strongly suggests that the ST changes are causing the CO2 changes.
Of course, some other and unknown cause (e.g. hypothetical feedbacks) may be inducing both the ST and the CO2 changes. If there is some other and unknown cause then the 9 month difference between ST and CO2 changes would be the difference between the response times of the ST and CO2 to that cause. However, there is no evidence that such an additional and unknown cause exists. Therefore, the scientific indication of the data is that the observed ST changes cause the observed and later CO2 changes (Occam’s Razor). And this indication will remain the scientific conclusion unless and until there is evidence that an additional and unknown cause exists.
Simply, the data indicate that the ST changes cause the CO2 changes.
Science says that the indication of the data should be accepted until contrary evidence is produced.”
I would suggest that the Sun is the primary driver, and ST, LT, dCO2/dt and finally CO2 follow, but Richard’s point remains. Lacking a time machine, the only possible alternative explanation that is consistent with the IPCC position is that the ~9 month lag of CO2 behind ST, LT and dCO2/dt is a positive feedback mechanism, and a minor one. Nevertheless, this “minor feedback mechanism’s” signal stands out loud and clear. Richard also made this same point when he said in an earlier post:
“But if anthropogenic emissions were a driver of CO2 changes then they would over-ride the observed driving of CO2 changes by temperature (both up and down). QED the temperature changes drive the CO2 changes.”
As Richard says, in the absence of solid evidence that this 9 month lag is a feedback mechanism, my hypothesis stands as the simplest and best explanation consistent with the data. If evidence exists of a positive feedback mechanism, and that evidence stands up to reasonable scrutiny, then let’s see it. If there is no such evidence, let’s see the time machine. Failing both these criteria, my hypothesis stands.
Best regards, Allan
P.S. I have since plotted humanmade CO2 emissions vs atmospheric CO2 and dCO2/dt and the correlation is very poor to non-existent. So according to the “feedback” argument, the [temperature:dCO2/dt] signal survives loud and clear atop a noisy, messy, even non-existent [humanmade CO2: atmospheric CO2} non-signal. Can someone please explain how this is practically possible, using logical and probabilistic rigor.
Summary, posted on icecap.us:
CARBON DIOXIDE IS NOT THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF GLOBAL WARMING:
THE FUTURE CAN NOT CAUSE THE PAST
Despite continuing increases in atmospheric CO2, no significant global warming occurred in the last decade, as confirmed by both Surface Temperature and satellite measurements in the Lower Troposphere. Contrary to IPCC fears of catastrophic anthropogenic global warming, Earth may now be entering another natural cooling trend.
Earth Surface Temperature warmed approximately 0.7 degrees Celsius from ~1910 to ~1945, cooled ~0.4 C from ~1945 to ~1975, warmed ~0.6 C from ~1975 to 1997, and has not warmed significantly from 1997 to 2007.
CO2 emissions due to human activity rose gradually from the onset of the Industrial Revolution, reaching ~1 billion tonnes per year (expressed as carbon) by 1945, and then accelerated to ~9 billion tonnes per year by 2007. Since ~1945 when CO2 emissions accelerated, Earth experienced ~22 years of warming, and ~40 years of either cooling or absence of warming.
The IPCC’s position that increased CO2 is the primary cause of global warming is not supported by the temperature data.
In fact, strong evidence exists that disproves the IPCC’s scientific position. The paper (HYPERLINKED) and Excel spreadsheet (“CO2 vs T”) (HYPERLINKED) show that variations in atmospheric CO2 concentration lag (occur after) variations in Earth’s Surface Temperature by ~9 months. The IPCC states that increasing atmospheric CO2 is the primary cause of global warming – in effect, the IPCC states that the future is causing the past. The IPCC’s core scientific conclusion is illogical and false.
There is strong correlation among three parameters: Surface Temperature (“ST”), Lower Troposphere Temperature (“LT”) and the rate of change with time of atmospheric CO2 (“dCO2/dt”). For the time period of this analysis, variations in ST lead (occur before) variations in both LT and dCO2/dt, by ~1 month. The integral of dCO2/dt is the atmospheric concentration of CO2 (“CO2”).
******************************
This is interesting. It says CO2 levels are 30% higher than they can account for by models.
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?ID=6674&Method=Full
They only focus on “sinks” and completely ignore the possibility of outgassing.
My paper is no longer on the cover page of icecap.us – please use
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/carbon_dioxide_in_not_the_primary_cause_of_global_warming_the_future_can_no/
Best regards, Allan
“This is interesting. It says CO2 levels are 30% higher than they can account for by models.
http://www.heatisonline.org/contentserver/objecthandlers/index.cfm?ID=6674&Method=Full
They only focus on “sinks” and completely ignore the possibility of outgassing”
This is just a BBC press release. Having retrieved the original article (Canadell et al., 2007, PNAS online) it’s written (p.3) that 65+/-16% of … d²CO2/dt² (translation of “increase of atmospheric CO2 growth rate”) is attributed to “the increase in the global economy”, the remaining 35+/-16% being attributed to “the increase in carbon intensity in the global economy” and 18+/-15% to “the decrease in the efficiency of the lands and ocean sinks in removing anthropogenic CO2”.
I haven’t yet studied the article in detail but my thoughts are that the relative uncertainties are high, as expected since the atmospheric CO2 level at a given time is the response of the complex carbon cycle to the net anthro increase (6 Gt from fossil + est 2 Gt from land use change), small but not negligible compared to the gross carbon cycle fluxes (90 Gt to/from ocean, 120 Gt to/from biosphere). Such response takes some time (a few months to a few years) and has much noise from many “natural” (i.e. non directly anthropogenic) factors, including increased/decreased ocean outgassing (or “decrease/increase of the net ocean sink”) from temperature change. Those factors are expected to dominate the short term (huge) variations of d²CO2/dt² and (before digging into the article) I would have some doubts in making positively any attribution like 65+/-16% to “the increase in the global economy”. On the other hand the “mean sign of d²CO2/dt² on the long term” (translation: the trend of dCO2/dt) is expected to be positive (fossil fuel consumption/land use change still increases), and … it is.
Best
Yves
Looking at Figure 3, if “mauna loa inferred emissions” is the observed change in atmospheric CO2 concentrations, then it shoud be the sum of anthropogenic emissions and the net natural flux imbalance (NNFI). This means we can infer the NNFI as
NNFI = Mauna Loa inferred emissions – anthropogenic emissions
If we were to plot the NNFI on the same diagram, I think we would see that (a) it is almost always negative and (b) that it has a downward long term trend.
In that case, the corrlation between temperature and NNFI is negative in the long term, but positive in the short term (i.e. once the time-series have been detrended). This seems difficult to reconcile with the new theory.
This suggests to me that the long term trend is due to an increase in radiative forcing from anthropogenic emissions (partly offset by environmental uptake), but the short term variations are due to the modulation of the NNFI by the ENSO (which limits the partial uptake of anthropogenic emissions).
Can someone with access to the data plot the NNFI to see if this is the case?
[…] This graph certainly supports the notion of the ocean’s importance in CO2 trends, something Roy Spencer did a guest post on CO2 and oceans here on this blog and was roundly criticized for it in some circles. Given that May is normally the peak month for […]
[…] Affrontando questo tema in modo analitico e da prospettive abbastanza differenti, sia il Dr. Roy Spencer dell’Università dell’Alabama che il Prof. Lance Endersbee della Monash University in Australia, giungono a conclusioni molto […]
Most people do not seem to realise the extremely limited restrictions placed on the “measurement” of carbon dioxide concentration in the atmosphere at the official sites. When it is continuous (very few), the only measurements retained are those when the wind is in the right direction and the figures vary only be an extremely small amount for six hours ro more.
At the “flask: sites (the majority), two flasks have to agree with a high accuracy.
Differences between sites nay be due to slight variation in imposing the restrictions.
All measurements outside the rstricted conditions are rejected and concealed.
Until we have widespread and preferably representative measurements of concentration and its variabilioty much of this discussion is merely speculative,
I was directed to this article as an example of Roy Spencer’s scientific acumen.
I am appalled. The best information we have is that the increase in the CO2 concentration dates from the beginning of industrial emissions and the trend of the annual increase is rising with the increase in the use of fossil fuels.
In addition the total emissions since the industrial age is twice the increase in concentration, which leads to the conclusion that the natural world is a sink for CO2. A large part of that sink is the ocean. In some years, when the surface of the ocean is warm, because of the solubility of CO2 goes down with increasing temperature, some CO2 may be emitted from the ocean, but that is an exception.
If there were no industrial emissions there would be no increase.
The whole isotope argument is nonsense. This should be a no- brainer for anyone with any sense.
How can a PHD scientist be so blinded by his own opinion that he can’t see how silly his argument is!!!????? This article could only be published on a CO2 denier site. It certainly wouldn’t pass peer review.
Allan MR MacRae (21:34:33) wrote:
” My paper is no longer on the cover page of icecap.us – please use
http://icecap.us/index.php/go/joes-blog/carbon_dioxide_in_not_the_primary_cause_of_global_warming_the_future_can_no/
Best regards, Allan”
I have read your paper with interest and looked at your charts.
You said,
“In fact, strong evidence exists that disproves the IPCC’s scientific position. The attached Excel spreadsheet (“CO2 vs T”) shows that variations in atmospheric CO2 concentration lag (occur after) variations in Earth’s Surface Temperature by ~9 months (Figures 2, 3 and 4). The IPCC states that increasing atmospheric CO2 is the primary cause of global warming – in effect, the IPCC states that the future is causing the past. The IPCC’s core scientific conclusion is illogical and false.
There is strong correlation among three parameters: Surface Temperature (“ST”), Lower Troposphere Temperature (“LT”) and the rate of change with time of atmospheric CO2 (“dCO2/dt”) (Figures 1 and 2). For the time period of this analysis, variations in ST lead (occur before) variations in both LT and dCO2/dt, by ~1 month. The integral of dCO2/dt is the atmospheric concentration of CO2 (“CO2″) (Figures 3 and 4).”
Your analysis leaves out an important factor. It is known to all, including the scientists who wrote the IPCC report, that the change in CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is driven by 2 things:
1) An accelerating upward trend in CO2 due to human caused emissions.
2) The variation in the oceans’ ability to absorb the CO2, which decreases with increasing sea surface temperature.
One half of the CO2 added by industrial emissions is absorbed by the oceans over time. When the earths temperature peaks temporarily, driven by peaks in ocean temperature, for instance during el Nino events the, oceans can even emit CO2. This was shown in the graphs put up by Spencer. This accounts for the location of the short term peaks in temperature correlated with the peaks in the rate of change of CO2 with time.
Since two mechanisms are at work a long term increase in CO2 due to emissions and rapid changes in the ability of the oceans to absorb CO2, the location of these peaks is not proof that the short term effect and the long term effect have the same cause. The oceans’s influence on the temperature is cyclical over and the CO2 influence is a constant forcing factor.
The presence of the short term correlation is not proof that the IPCC is wrong about the influence of human caused emissions on the global temperature over the long run.
[…] with temperature change than with change in human carbon dioxide emissions (see Figures 2 and 3 @ur momisugly Roy Spencer on how Oceans are Driving Carbon Dioxide, Watts Up with That, January 25, […]
Eric Adler (17:12:30) :
“Your analysis leaves out an important factor. It is known to all, including the scientists who wrote the IPCC report, that the change in CO2 concentration in the atmosphere is driven by 2 things:
1) An accelerating upward trend in CO2 due to human caused emissions.
2) The variation in the oceans’ ability to absorb the CO2, which decreases with increasing sea surface temperature.”
Your comment may or may not be correct – over the next decades, we may see the truth emerge from the data.
However, your tone with me and especially with Roy is aggressive and ill-advised.
Re: “It is known to all…”:
Really, such hogwash. I am reminded of that IPCC highlight, Mann’s hockey stick, that eliminated the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age; also of the Divergence Problem. Mann and the IPCC were clearly wrong – the only remaining question here is not one of error, it is one of fraud.
I am also reminded of the greatly exaggerated climate sensitivity used by the IPCC to produce their scary scenarios, and the ridiculous climate models that continue to predict catastrophic warming, even though Global Warming ceased a decade ago.
I remind you that ice core data shows a ~600 lag of CO2 after temperature at that time scale. I have provided evidence at shorter time scales. Ernst Beck has provided significant evidence at intermediate time scales, and has suffered scorn from the likes of you.
I also remind you of the “missing sink”, whereby only half of humanmade CO2 reports to the atmosphere. The rest, presumably, is hidden away by evil climate skeptics (or do you prefer the term “climate deniers”).
Still, there may be a significant humanmade CO2 component, which cannot be ruled out at this time.
So even if the final conclusion in my paper turns out to be wrong, it will still be a much closer to the truth than any of the IPCC’s scary conclusions, which are clearly false, alarmist, self-serving and extremely expensive for humanity.
There has been no Global Warming for a decade, and evidence is mounting that Earth will enter a 20-30 year cooling period as the PDO has shifted to cool mode.
I await the IPCC’s smooth transition from Catastrophic Humanmade Global Warming to Catastrophic Humanmade Global Cooling, and your spirited defense thereof. Watch out for whiplash when you change directions.
Best wishes to all for the Holidays!
[…] The denialosphere is a desperate sort of place. In it, you’ll hear whoppers like “humans aren’t responsible for the increase in carbon” or even sillier, “CO2 isn’t a pollutant, it’s life!” Every once in a […]
Interesting, but we need to see far more data, models, empirical observations to validate this hypothesis.
Dr. Spencer has updated his essay, see it here:
http://www.drroyspencer.com/2009/01/increasing-atmospheric-co2-manmade%E2%80%A6or-natural/
[…] http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/01/25/double-whammy-friday-roy-spencer-on-how-oceans-are-driving-co2… […]