But Obama still wants to send US energy use and living standards backward
Guest essay by Paul Driessen and Roger Bezdek
Paris climate talks this week descended into madcap all-night negotiations, as delegates desperately tried to salvage some kind of agreement beyond empty promises to do something sometime about what President Obama insists is the gravest threat to our planet, national security and future generations.
He gets far more energized about slashing energy use than about Islamist terrorism, even after the Paris and San Bernardino butchery. Determined for once to lead from upfront, he took a 500-person greenhouse gas-spewing entourage to the City of Light, to call for preventing increasing droughts, floods, storms, island-swallowing rising acidic ocean levels and other disasters conjured up by alarmist computer models.
Legally binding carbon dioxide emission targets were too contentious to pursue. So was modifying the concept of “differentiated responsibilities.” It holds that countries that historically caused the recent atmospheric carbon dioxide build-up must lead in cutting their emissions, while helping developing countries eventually do likewise, by pouring trillions of dollars in cash and free technology into the Green Climate Fund for supposed climate change adaptation, mitigation and compensation. Developing countries had insisted on that massive wealth redistribution as their price for signing any binding document.
Although China now emits far more CO2 and other greenhouse gases (GHG) than the USA or EU, it refused to fast-track reducing those emissions. China and wealthy petro-states also opposed paying into the Climate Fund. Other major bones of contention were likewise never resolved.
Thus, in the end, what we apparently got out of Paris is voluntary emission caps, voluntary progress reviews, no international oversight of any voluntary progress, and voluntary contributions to the Fund.
Of course, the entire climate cataclysm mantra is based on the claim that carbon dioxide has replaced the solar and other powerful natural forces that have driven climate change throughout Earth and human history. Now, merely tweaking CO2 emissions will supposedly stabilize climate and weather systems.
President Obama fervently believes this delusion. He will likely use the voluntary Paris gobbledygook to say America somehow has a “moral obligation” to set an example, by de-carbonizing, de-industrializing and de-developing the United States. Thankfully, Congress and the states will have something to say about that, because they know these anti-fossil fuel programs will destroy jobs and living standards, especially for poor, working class and minority families.
The impacts would be far worse than many news stories and White House press releases suggest. Those sources often say the proposed climate treaty and other actions seek GHG reductions of 80% below predicted 2050 emission levels. The real original Paris treaty target is 80% below actual 1990 levels.
That means the world would have to eliminate 96% of the greenhouse gases that all humanity would likely release if we reach world population levels, economic growth and living standards predicted for 2050. The United States would likely have to slash it CO2 and GHG reductions to zero.
Moreover, current 2050 forecasts already assume and incorporate significant energy efficiency, de-carbonization and de-industrialization over the next 35 years. They are not business-as-usual numbers or extrapolations of past trends. Further CO2 reductions beyond those already incorporated into the forecasts would thus be increasingly difficult, expensive, and indeed impossible to achieve.
As we explain in a MasterResource.org analysis, there is a strong positive relationship between GDP and carbon-based energy consumption. Slashing fossil energy use that far would thus require decimating economic growth, job creation and preservation, and average per-person incomes. In fact, average world per capita GDP would plummet from a projected $30,600 in 2050 to a miserable $1,200 per year.
Average per capita GDP in 2050 would be less than what Americans had in 1830! Many futuristic technologies would still exist, but only wealthy families and ruling elites could afford them.
That would be catastrophic for jobs, health and welfare in developed countries – and lethal to millions in poor nations, who would be denied the blessings of electricity and fossil fuels for decades to come. That is indefensible, inhumane and immoral. And for what?
Mr. Obama and the alarmists in Paris insisted that drastic GHG reductions will hold global temperature increases to 2 degrees Celsius (3.5 F) and prevent climate and weather disasters. Now some even claim that the upper safety limit is actually 1.5 degrees C (2.7 F), which would require even more draconian energy and emission cutbacks. Otherwise, Earth could become uninhabitable, they assert. Nonsense.
EPA’s own analyses suggest that its fully implemented Clean Power Plan would bring an undetectable, irrelevant reduction of perhaps 0.02 degrees Celsius (0.05 F) in average global temperatures 85 years from now – assuming carbon dioxide actually does drive climate change.
In the Real World, climate changes regularly, and recent climate and weather trends and events are in line with historic experience. In fact, average global temperatures haven’t risen in nearly two decades; no category 3-5 hurricane has struck the USA in a record ten years; Greenland and Antarctic ice are at record levels; and still firmly alkaline sea levels (8.1 pH) are rising at barely seven inches per century.
Many scientists believe the sun and other powerful natural forces may soon usher in a new era of colder temperatures, regardless of whether atmospheric CO2 rises above 0.40% (400 ppm). That would pose much greater threats to human health, agriculture and prosperity (and wildlife) than global warming.
We must never forget: Fossil fuels facilitated successive industrial revolutions and enabled billions to live better than royalty did a century ago, helped average incomes to increase eleven-fold, and helped average global life expectancy to soar from less than 30 in 1870 to 71 today.
Carbon-based energy still provides 81% of world energy, and supports $70 trillion per year in world GDP. It will supply 75-80% of global energy for decades to come, Energy Information Administration, International Energy Agency and other studies forecast. Carbon-based energy is essential if we are to bring electricity to the 1.3 billion people who still do not have it, and end the rampant poverty and lung, intestinal and other diseases that kill millions of people in poor countries every year.
Furthermore, thousands of coal-fired power plants are built, under construction or in planning around the world. China and India will not consider reducing GHG emissions until 2030, and even then it will be voluntary and dependent on how their economies are doing. That means atmospheric carbon dioxide levels will continue to climb, greening the planet and spurring faster crop, forest and grassland growth.
President Obama and the 40,000 climate alarmists gathered in Paris largely [ignored] these inconvenient realities, and whitewashed the adverse consequences of anti-hydrocarbon policies. Even binding targets would have had minimal or illusory health, climate and environmental benefits.
Instead, they would have horrendous adverse effects on human health and environmental quality, while doing nothing to prevent climate change or extreme weather events. What alarmists wanted in Paris would have let unelected, unaccountable activists and bureaucrats decide which industries, companies, workers, families, states and countries win the Climate Hustle game, and which ones lose.
And it’s not just President Obama, who wants to slash America’s carbon dioxide emissions by 26-28% below 2005 levels by 2025 – and 80% below 1990 levels by 2050! Every Democrat presidential candidate demands similar actions: Hillary Clinton wants one-third of all US electricity to come from wind and solar by 2027; Bernie Sanders wants 80% by 2050; Martin O’Malley wants 100% by 2050.
Obligating the United States to slash its fossil fuel use, and send billions of taxpayer dollars annually to dictators, bureaucrats and crony industrialists in poor countries would be disastrous. Thank goodness it did not happen. But we are not out of the woods yet.
Dr. Roger Bezdek is an internationally recognized energy analyst and president of Management Information Services, Inc., in Washington, DC. Paul Driessen is senior policy analyst for the Committee For A Constructive Tomorrow and author of Eco-Imperialism: Green power – Black death.
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The Greens just want perfection. Economics does not enter into any of their proposals (beyond how to get contributions), as what they purportedly want is objectively impossible.
Take a look at this Social Frontiers Conference from 2013 that also had UK government and Rockefeller Foundation backing if we want to appreciate just how much economics and regard for what has ever worked factors in to these plans for us and at our expense. http://www.nesta.org.uk/event/social-frontiers
They will change the text afterwards at UNFCCC?
No they want control. They want to be arbiter of all things the proles do.
Many gr$$ns feel humanity must be sacrificed to save the planet, that mankind is the cancer. Rather than sacrifice themselves first, like lemmings, they hope they can engineer a timetable whereby humanity will begin to die off only after they themselves have lived out their own comfortable (thanks to cheap fossil-fueled energy) and wealthy (thanks to gr$$n rent seeking) lives. “I got mine.”
“The Greens just want perfection.” I disagree. Otherwise they would support energy sources like hydro-electric and nuclear.
Their real product is fear. The Sierra Club and Greenpeace would be out of business tomorrow if they could no longer frighten people. Contemporary environmentalism is an Original Sin religion. We are all guilty, and must plead for favors from the righteous priesthood who would rule us.
The Greens just want perfection.
================
Perfection is the Enemy of Good.
Before concluding that Paris is mush, please take a look at UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-Moon’s Dignity for All report or the related Rockefeller-funded, Larry Summers chaired, Commission on Inclusive Prosperity from Last February. http://www.invisibleserfscollar.com/dwelling-in-a-void-of-unknowing-within-a-sculpted-narrative-designed-to-manipulate/
Ain’t that something
Thanks Robin
The manipulation of the educational system guarantees that “free thinkers” have a long way to go.
Job security of a sorts.
Knute
friend
Arlington cemetery refutes that argument
We as a people are not yet that cold, everywhere everyday people act in the greater good, against their own interests and gain.
It is that evil (and I mean secular as well as religious) always seems to out weight good act for act.
this is a issue of education.Give people the facts and they will act properly.
With one exception people will sacrifice themselves but NOT their children.
NO one will condemn their future, their children so a group of self serving , moralizers can feel “good” about themselves.
sorry time to get off the soap box
michael
Thanks Mike for the reminder of good over evil.
I’m Debbie Downer today.
Will fix that.
We are constantly told by the MSM and their leftist commentators that conservatives are causing much of the world’s problems. They spend many column inches belittling those who still believe in the bible messages but what I find interesting is those being derided are the ones who build the hospices, the hospitals, the schools and run the street reach programs. I am yet to see a green group do any of these things since they seldom believe in self sacrifice but certainly encourage taxpayer sacrifice.
“Arlington cemetery refutes that argument”
Arlington is a monument to Ironic Evil. (the great evil that good men do while they are attempting to do good)
One of my three uncles (all US Army) was on the planning staff running the Vietnam War. He told me two years before one of his brothers was shot down and lost a leg that we had lost the war and we should never have gotten involved. This was apparently a common belief among the brass running that abortion of a war. .
I then read Major General Smedly Buttler who wrote “War is a Racket”. http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/warisaracket.html
The only “just war” is one where a people repel an invasion by aggressors who attack and invade. Ask yourself how many times the US has been invaded by another country. Then ask yourself how many times we have attacked or invaded another country. If your answers are honest, your eyes will open.
Well, I would ‘amend’ that definition of a ‘just war’ to include “aiding a people who are invaded and attacked by an aggressor”. Would it be ‘just’ to allow an aggressor to invade and conquer the people of another nation simply because they are not within our borders?
So, let’s take a look, here are my ‘candidates’ for ‘just wars’ in US history
Revolutionary War – seems like the British ‘invaded and attacked’ after the Declaration of Independence (even before that)
Barbary War – Arabic pirates were attacking and seizing both American flagged vessels (which constitute ‘territory’ of the US), killing American citizens and holding them for ransom or simply selling them into slavery The efforts of the ‘Barbary Pirates’ (who were not ‘Pirates’ operating independently from the Arab states from which they operated, they were fully supported & protected by the Arab States in the area) over the time they operated resulted in the enslavement of over 1 million Europeans & Americans – more than the number of Africans brought to America as slaves.
War of 1812 – British were attacking US flagged vessels (which constitute ‘territory of the US) and were killing and taking captive American Citizens. Impressment of American citizens by the Royal Navy was nothing more than disguised slavery.
Mexican – American War – Maybe, the US probably is responsible for goading the Mexicans into attacking, but, they did first try to buy the territories that were later annexed after the war reached it’s inevitable conclusion. Mexican forces attacked US forces and laid siege to a US fort on US territory to initiate the war, so, ‘technically’, it was an invasion by an ‘aggressor’ that started the war (even though that is exactly what Polk wanted and manipulated the Mexicans into doing by placing US troops in a ‘disputed’ region claimed by both countries).
Civil War – probably debatable but, technically, when South Carolina seceded, they became a ‘foreign’ state and they attacked and invaded the US (Ft Sumter). Lee’s subsequent invasion of the Union (into Pennsylvania & Maryland) would seem to meet the requirement of an aggressor attacking & invading US territory.
WWI – Germans sank 9 American flagged merchant vessels prior to our declaration of War. Attacks on American flagged vessels (and killing of American citizens) constitutes an ‘invasion’ or attack on American soil.
WWII – I believe the Japanese attacked US territory, then the rest of the Axis powers declared war on the US Probably Hitler’s worst move of the war, it gave Roosevelt exactly what he wanted. Would be interesting to consider what would have happened if he didn’t and Roosevelt could not get a Declaration of War on the other Axis powers).
Korean War – North Koreans invaded South Korea, we came to their aid
1st Gulf War – Iraq invaded Kuwait
Are the wars the US has fought that are not ‘just’. But, even within the rather narrow definition of a ‘just war’ we have fought in a number of ‘just wars’.
[The US did end up paying Mexico for the territory already won by the US armies! First time in history the victor in a war paid the defeated for conquered (but essentially empty) enemy territory. .mod]
We can all be thankful that the well-intentioned carbonophobes gathered in Paris recently did less harm than they set out to do. This image of a delicious bowl of cornmeal should also remind us that many thousands of people in poor countries have died and are dying because rich countries like the US are mandating that corn be diverted from food to ethanol, raising its price out of the reach of those on the margins. The people gathered at the climate conference in Paris probably don’t like to think of themselves as starvers of third-world children, but they are.
You have it backwards ! The rich countries are the ones sick ask me about eating corn rice and wheat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsI6oQN8fdE
Relax, Russell.
Extensive research has shown that starving and malnourished people rarely, if ever suffer the clinical side effects of obesity. We are not sure why this is, but the data are clear. For whatever reasons, obesity related heart disease, hypertension, and diabetes just do not seem to affect third worlders like they do people in the prosperous west.
TonyL Please watch from the 18 minute mark: You will enjoy PS I agree with you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRe9z32NZHY
The infamous 97% of scientists meme has now been replaced with 100% of countries, so easy for dim-witted and vote seeking politicians to exploit. This treaty is very bad news, I think it has to be formally not-ratified by the US, please.
190 countries attended this socialist love fest, but, 187 of them were ONLY there because they thought they would get trillions of OPM…..Other People’s Money !!
I agree that he will likely say this. It is certain he will say something like this.
Unlike Kyoto, the Republicans control the Senate. Even if somehow this really isn’t a Treaty, and .President doesn’t HAVE to have the Senate Ratify it, he has the moral obligation to do so.
The Republicans in the Senate should schedule a vote for ratification on the Treaty for early February. Let the public debate over the holidays. Hold hearings and Senate debate in January. Let Obama squander his State of the Union in its defense. Let every politician in favor of it go on record. Then vote the Treaty down positively rebuking the administration’s policies and tactics, giving the Judiciary no place for the Administration to hide.
It won’t happen. Republican Senate leadership would rather hide from anything important.
In a normal election cycle you might very well get something like you describe.
This election cycle is focused on the Presidential race. IMO the GOP won’t go full hammer on CAGW because they don’t see it as a winning position.
It’s dicey to tell someone who is tricked into feeling guilty that they are being tricked esp when the feeling of being “green enough” makes many onlookers feel good about themselves. Slap on a little of the “those religious zealot GOPers” ignore CAGW because they are creationists and then all of a sudden you have GOPers looking like deer in headlights.
Check.
No, for the community organizer in chief, it is just a useful stick to hit the USA with.
BTW Which communities, precisely, did he organize?
You mentioned President Obama and “moral integrity” in the same post.
Might be the first time that has ever happened on the Internet.
/grin
RoO, the south side of Chicago. Before becoming a do nothing Illinois legislator (most non votes), then a do nothing Senator (most missed votes), before becoming Pres on hope and change rhetoric. All hope, no change. Like COP21.
Legislation can also sit, and die, by delays, delays, delays. This might be the best strategy, to get past the POTUS election, then either have Trump’s rubber stamp to kill it, or, shove it in Shrillary’s face.
You also stand the risk of Czar POTUS pulling another “executive order”. and ruling by decree (for which he should have been IMPEACHED long ago, for his other dictatorial decrees). Either way, he’s a pompous, deluded ass, much like our own Shiny Prince of Pot, PM Jihadi Justin of Canuckistan
he TPP has a mandatory enforcement for any OTHER environment agreement, so it will be used as the enforcement vehicle.
https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2015/12/13/paris-cop21-obama-declares-victory-the-tpp-likely-gives-it-to-him/
IF the TPP passes, Paris is binding.
E.M.Smith
IF the TPP passes, Paris is binding.
Nope. Authority under TTP extends only to areas stated in TTP .
The United States Senate is not allowed to surrender its’ responsibilities.
There is enough case law to bury any thought of TTP being linked to COP21.
Just because the issue has come up is enough justification to rewrite TTP so there is no question of linkage.
President Obama most likely just killed TTP.
michael
Thanks Mike
I’m paying close attention to these seemingly unconnected items.
At the hearing, all the Democrats showed up, Cruz was in effect the lone Republican.
http://www.steynonline.com/7364/the-gop-dont-never-dance-with-them-what-brung-them
Off topic, but hoping someone here can help. I’d like to see if there are any comparisons out there of how much $ gets invested in research supporting vs opposing the ‘consensus’ on climate change. It’s intuitive to me that ‘consensus’ driven research ideas rate likely to get more funding, but I’d love to see a credible analysis of this…. It’s easy to find arm-waving rhetoric about research funding- that’s not what I am looking for – I’m looking for an analysis that truly tries HARD to be objective about it …. about how much funding goes to either side in the debate. Can anyone point me to something? Thanks!
Hey Chris,
As a postdoc working in environmental sciences (trained as a chemical engineer) I can tell you my own personal experience, which is of course limited, but I talk to a lot of my colleagues from all over the world so at this should be least somewhat representative.
Research proposals are usually described in neutral terms. For example, ‘is there an effect of X on Y, and if so, what is that effect’, Of course often the authors have a suspicion of what the answer will be but at least when it comes to writing research grant proposals it should be neutral. I know the idea of a ‘consensus’ gets mentioned a lot here on this blog, but in the actual research world I just don’t see this ‘consensus’ that much. Why would anyone fund research for questions that are already answered? You’re most likely to get funded for promising something new and interesting that hasn’t been done before, and you’re definitely most likely to get cited a lot for papers in which you attack the current state of knowledge (e.g. the ‘consensus’). And as you know, citations are the lifeblood of scientists.
Actually a lot of research is going on about uncertainties, data errors, etc. The result of this is almost always a confirmation of the current state of knowledge. Now probably you’ll have a lot of people on this blog start yelling that it’s all a fraud etc. etc., but the honest answer, as far as I can see, is that climate change is just a real phenomenon, and everything you read here on this site is mostly about american politics, and the discussion between more or less federal regulation. I’m actually not American, so this fixation with Obama and a few American scientist is very weird for me, and completely and utterly irrelevant when looking at the work that I do, or how I get my funding
I’m happy to answer any further questions!
Cheers,
Ben
Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Cited a lot for dismantling the warmist lies? How well did that go for Lomberg (an extreme warmist himself)? He’s black banned from almost every uni, his research is novel but ignored and then the lack of citings is used to smear him when anyone considers allowing him even an unpaid position.
Grants are expressed as “gerbil worming is the biggest threat evah – we investigate its effects on the poor / penguins / coral / starfish / acidification / weather / Middle East refugees.” The cause is assumed and a spuriously correlated novel effect is sought.
Then why won’t the alarmists debate the subject ??
I think that answers the robust nature of alarmist science – case closed
benben says:
I know the idea of a ‘consensus’ gets mentioned a lot here on this blog, but in the actual research world I just don’t see this ‘consensus’ that much. Why would anyone fund research for questions that are already answered?
Please tell us: what questions have already been answered? (I don’t mean ‘answered’ by someone asserting their opiniopn. I mean answered using verifiable measurements.)
You’re leading a sheltered life if you haven’t been exposed to the “consensus” propaganda, in which John Cook and others claim to show that ‘97%’ of scientists believe in dangerous AGW, or whatever their badly worded self-serving poll pretends to show. The only real consensus is shown in the OISM survey, in which some 31,000 scientists and engineers consider CO2 to be harmless, and beneficial to the biosphere.
And here we have 100 scientists writing to the IPCC and stating that global warming is natural.
Then we have 125 scientists telling Ban Ki Moon that he’s wrong about “climate change”.
Then there’s this list of more than 1,100 scientists disputing the IPCC’s claim that man-mader global warming is a problem, and questioning if it even exists.
You say:
I’m happy to answer any further questions!
Those will be enough to start with…
Maybe i should add that it would be nice not to have to deal with comments such as ‘hahahahaahahaha’, I’m just saying what I personally observe. IIRC Lomborg was rejected because they wanted to make him a professor, and normally you’d need an h-index of 40 or so for that. His H-index is… what, 5 maybe? He just doesn’t publish enough in scientific journals to warrant a professorship. I’m sure he’d get a postdoc position in a heartbeat though!
Oh, stuff. If Lomborg were arguing the opposite position, he’d be king of the faculty lounge.
Actually a lot of research is going on about uncertainties, data errors, etc. The result of this is almost always a confirmation of the current state of knowledge.
Wait for it (grim smile).
benben:
You say: “Of course often the authors have a suspicion of what the answer will be but at least when it comes to writing research grant proposals it should be neutral.”
So when all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail? (My bold above.) Confirmation bias.
I don’t need an answer. It’s whatever you want.
As I always tell my kids: Their goal is to THINK, not repeat what the ubiquitous “they” say.
Where I live we just had two weeks of “warming” so warming is real. Now we are heading into two weeks or more of “cooling” so cooling is real.
That’s also called “weather”. 43 C below at Eureka, Nunavut today. A balmy -6 at my house but normally warmer but often 20 or 30 degrees colder this time of year.
Tell me exactly why a little warmer would be a bad thing again? I’d use less wood, less propane, less diesel in the tractor, feed less hay, get better crops, spend less money, …
In spite of the foolishness of our politicians, it is well known that northern climes like Canada would benefit from a bit of global warming. Of course, no one has recently given politicians much credit for being erudite…
Have a nice evening.
wjd
http://www.timeanddate.com/weather/canada/eureka
◢
Now
-43 °C
Clear.
Feels Like: -51 °C
Forecast: -42 / -34 °C
Wind: 6 km/h ↑ from East
Location: Eureka
Current Time: Dec 13, 2015 at 8:22:27 PM
Latest Report: Dec 13, 2015 at 7:00 PM
Visibility: 24 km
Pressure: 102.83 kPa
Humidity: 80%
Dew point: -45 °C
Thanks Ben for your thoughtful reply. It makes sense to me. Maybe I can ask a slightly different question. I’m thinking there must be a reference somewhere that shows climate funding by “source.” For example I did a little digging today and found a stat or 2 published by US federal government that they spent around 21 billion $ in 2014 on Climate change related activities (spanning much more than just research grants I assume). I’m really just looking for something factual to verify or challenge the “the koch brothers and the oil industry fund all these skeptics” – all I hear is arm waving, but its hard for me to believe that nobody has ever investigated it. is there a way to investigate whether that’s true?
92 billion in US government (state and federal) funding in the three years after 2010. ALL of it going to government-paid “scientists” and labs and societies and their promotion and indoctrination and “training” and “education” and “green power” schemes.
Some 25,000.00 in money from a single conservative think tank.
benben,
Your arguments are becoming increasingly unhinged. I realize you will probably start whining about these posts not being sufficiently kissy-face for your tender sensitivities, but you bring it on yourself.
Your latest nonsense is claiming that Lomborg lacked the necessary publications to be a professor, while you conveniently ignore people like Ward Churchill, the fake indian who was given tenure — the day he was hired by UoC! (I might point out that you ignored the links I posted above that contradict your belief in ‘consensus’.)
You will learn that cherry-picking examples doesn’t get you far here.
Other Ben who’s also Chem-E environmental guy,
While you do have a point that research is more civilized and officially more neutral. I have to disagree with your conclusion, especially when you are talking about things outside of actual climate research. For example, numerous people have gotten grants to research “the psychology of climate denial”, and I can’t tell the number of biological research that include the reference of researching the effects of “man made climate change on X”.
It might not be explicitly pro-consensus, but I’ve seen a lot of papers that presume inherently that climate change is: Real, Unprecedented, and man-made. A lot of research that is otherwise unrelated adds a “we believe in climate change” addition in the footer, and several people have mentioned that anything without such a coda gets subject to a lot more scrutiny. This is reminiscent of Copernicus dedicating On the Revolutions to the pope, trying to avoid the scrutiny of the establishment by declaring devotion.
Sorry, but I cannot agree.
Ben: You misunderstand the nature of MY opposition to Obama’s policies.
Global warming is real, some of it is caused by CO2, today’s temperature is about. 0.85 degrees C above pre industrial, the warming we have experienced thus far is beneficial, and will likely be positive until 2100, efforts to cut emissions are poorly thought, the 1.5 degree target isn’t supported by anything, the way the RCP8.5 is used amounts to large scale fraud, geoengineering requires much more research. And climate change is now a vehicle or Trojan horse used by the left to peddle a radical vision of a top down, centrally planned and controlled communist world.
Cheers
Fernando
benbenben,
You’re in ‘Environmental sciences’? That’s like ‘Political Science’, isn’t it?
Hey Chris, there is a lot of investigative journalism going on of course, but I think your question is difficult to answer for two reasons:
1) climate change is incredibly diffuse, and so are its causes and effects. The ‘global climate’ touches almost everything, so it really depends on how you want to count science as relevant to climate change. I think my research is relevant to climate change, but I’m being paid for by the US military, and in my previous project the professor was also a fulltime employee for Shell. so how would you classify that? On this blog it seems very black and white but in reality it’s all over the place. This goes in both ways: its for instance very difficult to get an accurate number for subsidies to fossil fuels. You can choose your system boundaries to get whatever result you want.
2) the subject is incredibly political, at least in the US. In the rest of the world its more treated like a scientific problem, but if you read this blog it seems exclusively an american left wing plot. This makes it incredibly difficult to have a normal discussion, because in such a polarized environment people start inventing their own facts. Some of the responses above are perfect examples.
@ur momisugly benofhouston, yeah… you make a point. There probably is a lot of research that explicitly looks at the effect of changes in climate on X or Y or whatever. And perhaps they include some boilerplate text on climate change? I don’t know. I’ve never seen it tbh, but I have no problem believing you that this happens. I wouldn’t interpret it as malicious or anything. It’s just that the current state of knowledge indicates that these relatively rapid changes in climate, so it’s normal to write in your introduction that you are looking at the influence of man made climate change ( = rapid changes in climate, and therefore distinct from the normal relatively slow changes). Again, this is not because these scientists are collectively lying to the world. Introductions just reflect the current state of knowledge. A little footer on climate change is sometimes necessary because unfortunately blogs like this like to pounce on research and pull it out of context to claim that climate change is fake, even though the actual results don’t really bear that out. I don’t really think this is reminiscent of Copernicus, who was trying to avoid being tortured to death.
But, benofhouston, I really appreciate that you can disagree with me without becoming unpleasant!
Cheers,
Ben
You mention “the current state of knowledge” being almost always confirmed. That’s the so-called “concensus” view. You don’t see it because 1) you work within it, 2) you believe it to be “sound science” and 3) since it is your industry, you have a definite incentive to not rock the boat.
You are either incredibly, painfully naieve, or just being disingenuous. My guess is the latter.
Hey Bruce Cobb,
If you want to define ‘consensus’ as ‘what most research papers find’ then that is fine. It’s just that on this blog ‘consensus’ is usually used as a reference to some kind of science-maffia that forces normal, smart, innocent scientists to include language in their work that they wouldn’t want to. And this is something I don’t see happening (again, just purely personal observations).
I always find it very interesting to see how commenters on this blog seem to think that the only way a person could have a different opinion is either if that person is not a real scientist (dumb, social scientist, incredibly naive; take your pick) or is somehow lying.
Maybe we just differ in opinion?
Cheers
Ben
Barack Obama is obviously a very intelligent person. So (to varying degrees) are the other leaders who get enthused about going “green”. I wonder whether he really believes in all this stuff. Not just AGW, but the idea that you can just tweak CO2 emissions and everything will turn out just fine. And that clean, green, renewable energy is readily available, we just have to reach out and grasp it. Or is he latching on to the story to distract himself (and his country) from really serious problems that are beyond his control?
I know when I have found myself facing serious issues that would be hard to face up to, and harder to do anything about, I often find myself (without really intending to) getting immersed in some trivial activity. It’s a way of avoiding facing up to hard facts and tough decisions. Psychiatrists have a word for it, but I can’t remember what it is. Could Mr. Obama be doing this on a global scale?
The word is ‘displacement’ and yes, Obama is doing that big time.
Apparently his golf game has become so bad he needs the distraction. 🙂
Reality avoidance?
I believe the technical psychological term is diplacement
May be obvious to some, absolutely not to me. Ever see what happens when the teleprompter breaks, he can not put three words together.
You underestimate his kind of intelligence. He has been described as a kind of natural born community organizer. The natural born community leader knows how to launch questions and then gauge the position of his targets by their reactions. Through this method he gets to see what he needs to do in order to sway you in his direction. Btw, Harvard teaches this skill in one of their promoted leadership courses.
@knutesea
My take on it is that his overall handlers have surrounded him with day-to-day handlers. He has never achieved anything on his own, ever. I do not believe he is capable of independent action now.
Used car salesmen knows how to do that.
my point
Community organizers, per Alinsky, are not there to promote or help the community, rather promote and further the organizers position.
As to Obama’s intelligence…do you really think a psychopathic narcissist like him could keep from showing his intellectual heft if his grades proved his grand intellect? And yet, we’ve still never seen his college transcripts. Makes one go hmmmmmm.
Evil people can be very intelligent too. Is Obama evil? Hard to say, but he is very narcissistic, that is clear, and his witch hunts on his political foes are clear (IRS audits, etc)
Test scores would be the better metric, huh buster?
Busterbrown…yes I do. And I’m related to 2 of those (both Masters degrees). And a Summa cum laude to boot (my daughter). So?
Does an intelligent person make the claim that addressing AGW is a proper response to terrorism? That sounds more like someone with some vital screws loose.
When he is out of office, which should happen if the constitution is still in vogue, I cant help but think he will apply for the Gore replacement opening on the world stage. O boy.
It’s “mush ado about nothing.”
Hey! Don’t shoot the messenger.
I thinks you hath too mush too dwink…..hic ‘…..LOL
What do they say in the church circles?
PTL! Hallelujah and Amen, Brothers and Sisterns…
Obama and Kerry deserve medals for engineering an agreement that requires the U.S. to do essentially nothing to contribute to the idiocy of climate change mitigation.This will be their true legacy!
Not just for the US. Theirs is a global accomplishment. Hurrah! 🙂
I wonder if some of the enlightened and informed readers here can help me? If you ground substances to a powder, those substances can be burned – even exploding in some circumstances. So why can’t we ground rocks to a very fine powder and burn them? Excuse my chemistry ignorance, it’s just something that I have often wondered about.
Think of the energy it would take to grind rock to powder. I guarantee you it would take a lot more than you would get back out.
Thew composition of rock is silicon based. The ignition temperature of silicon is ~ 1000 C.
You could burn them but you’d need another heat source – and fuel – to raise the rock dust to ‘go poof’ temperature.
Stick with carbon based lifeforms as fuel, Jim.:)
The only substances which burn whether they’re powdered or not are those which have the ability to combine with oxygen (almost exclusively) to form ‘oxides’, and in so doing release heat. The more finely divided (for example, powdered as opposed to chunks) the substance, the more surface area is available to foster the oxidation reactions. More surface area → more rapid oxidation of the mass of stuff.
Except for coal, most rocks are already in “terminal oxidation states”; this means that whether they’re powdered or not, heated in oxygen, doesn’t set them afire. Simply they’ve oxidized as far as their constituent materials are capable of oxidizing.
Think of it like charcoal briquettes: with a bit of effort, one can set them aglow. Maybe without flame, but they’re certainly burning. After they stop burning, what’s left? If a briquette is left quite undisturbed while burning, a perfectly ‘charcoal shaped’ blob of ash remains. Is that part flammable? No. It is now maximally oxidized. End of the road. No mas.
You can even try to take a pile of it and ignite it with something really hot like a welding torch. No burning. Now, the ash might fuse into a glassy blob, but that’s not burning per se. More like “making lava”.
In our atmosphere, on this planet, most-every element satisfies that first sentence at the top: has the ability to combine with oxygen. Some react strongly enough that when the element is ground on a grinding wheel, the sparks are brilliant white-hot, as they burn. (Titanium is one of these.) Others aren’t quite as vigorous, like steel. Still, they glow bright-yellow as they too oxidize. Others will seem entirely inert (grinding copper normally emits no sparks.) Some are hugely reactive (like aluminum) but also emit no sparks because they build up protective hard oxide coatings faster than the heat builds up to let them burn. Others are so reactive that they don’t even need to be ground, to burn. (Potassium will burn spontaneously. Magnesium once it starts can’t be put out in air. Has to be smothered.)
Thus it goes.
Fire was such a mystery that philosophers-of-old thought it to be one of the 4 elements. Air, Fire, Water, Stone. They too asked the question you asked. Why do some materials seem to be able to burn, whereas others are quite inert?
GoatGuy
An education – thank you.
Because they don’t contain flogiston? (sp)
Good points about the combustion of minerals. What may not be immediate obvious is that ash, as formed from, say, biomass or coal, actually requires energy. It doesn’t give any. The energy required to ‘burn ash’ is about 100,000 Joules per kilogram. It is negative! Nature is strange.
GoatGuy’s explanation is first class.
To put it another way, most rocks (and water) is already burnt and no amount of grinding to expose surface area isn’t going to change that.
The products of life: coal, kerogen, methane, hydrocarbons, cellulose (plants), proteins, fats, pure refined metals, are substances where oxidation is possible. These you can burn and explode in the right configurations.
You can grind metals into fine powder and burn them with the same power density as gasoline…but not rock.
Kirkc, yes, but I think you will find that the metals that can be ground into power to be burnt or exploded are all products of Life. They are all refined metals of man. Man had to put a great deal of energy into the process to make the metals from oxides, sulfides, and halides found in nature.
You can find elemental gold in nature, but it won’t burn under any circumstances at normal pressure. Elemental copper and silver are very rare mineral specimens, and powered Cu or Ag might give a ‘poof’ in the right circumstances.
I guess your best bet is elemental sulfur in hydrothermal vents. Even there, I don’t know that extremophile bacteria doesn’t play a part in its formation.
Not sure about the process, but doesn’t Congress get a say in what treaties were allowed to enter into?
Yes: it is for this reason that the Treaty of Paris 2015 is written to be adopted within one year of its historic genesis. To give the various “congresses” out there time to mull over the thing and finally sign it.
Moreover, the Treaty of Paris 2015 has a particular condition included that prevents it from going into effect until 55% of the nations sign in and 55% of the world’s CO₂ emitters also have signed the treaty.
The two are an interesting thing to try to achieve. If one were to line up all the tiny countries and give ’em all 1 vote apiece, then it would be quite easy to get the first “55%” signed up. Especially if there is potential for big bags of money to be handed out at next year’s Paris 2016 Christmas Party.
But those 55% wouldn’t even account for 10% of the world’s CO₂ emissions. Hence why it the requirement to get 55% of the emissions producers signed up is also key. If for instance every country in the world were to sign the treaty, except China and the United States of America … well, those two alone are over 45% (the remainder of 100% – 55%), so 55% signage couldn’t be had. In this way, the biggest offenders also have the largest Veto power.
Is this fair?
Hard to say, but it certainly seems fairer than letting Kiribati’s single vote have the same “power” as China’s.
GoatGuy
I hope you are correct. My question is:
“How official is the title, ‘Treaty of Paris 2015’ ?”
The word “Treaty” was a deal breaker for the US contingent. So I suspect that it isn’t part of the official title. On the other hand, Hollande’s ego might have required the word’s official inclusion.
There is another calculus. Maybe they have concluded that the US will not be counted as a signer, but China, who has nothing to lose by signing and everything to gain by hobbling the US, will sign. It might not change anything legally, but it changes the politics.
The CO2 emissions of Indonesia exceed those of the USA (in 2015).
Yes, article 2 section 2.2 of the US constitution requires 2/3 Senate approval of all treaties made by the president. But this depends on the meaning of treaty.
Under US law, there are three sorts of treaties.
1. Article 2, which Thomas Jefferson defined on Jan 18 1791 as ‘forever irrevocable except but by joint consent. So COP21 is not an article 2 treaty for two reasons: nothing binding and unilateral opt out provision.
2. Congressional-executive agreements (CEA) which require only majority approval in Congress. The various trade agreements, like TPP now, are of this sort. Obama is arguing COP21 is not a CEA, since nothing is binding.
3. Sole executive agreements. The Supreme Court has ruled that these can onlymbe entered into under one of the Presidents specific executive authorities: conduct of foreign policy and recognition of nations and ambassadors (nope); as commander in chief of the armed forces (nope); obligation to faithfully enforce existing US laws (yup). The administration is arguing that the CAA (clean air act empowing the EPA to cut pollution) plus the EPA determination that CO2 is a pollutant after Mass. V. EPA (classic green sue and settle) makes COP21 a sole executive ‘treaty’.
Fighting that view is probably picking the wrong fight. The correct fight is the unconstitutionality of the EPA Clean Power Plan, which is how Obama intends to inplement the US INDC. Harvard Law’s Larry Tribe, the US’ foremost constitutional scholar, has written a brief finding three seprate reasons CPP is unconstitutional, in support of the 23 states suing the EPA.
Hope you find the longish clarification helpful.
ristvan,
Very helpful.
John
JW, for completeness I should have added that type 2 CEA ‘treaties’ are distinguished from type 1 Article 2 ‘treaties’ by always containing some sort of opt out provision, hence not fulfilling Jefferson’s definition of a constitutional treaty. With this addendum, my comment is a succinct but complete laymans version of what Larry Tribe taught me in con law many moons ago. Glad you found it useful.
Mr Homewood provides the “shalls”.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.wordpress.com/2015/12/13/a-worthless-piece-of-paper/
Not sure about the process, but doesn’t Congress get a say in what treaties were allowed to enter into?
I am not so sure.
That was then. This is now.
Solving imaginary future problems in stead of tackling muslim terrorism and the poverty in America is the equivalent of politicians attacking other countries (aka Putin). The reason is the same: avoiding their responsibilities by not taking on the real issues. The smart twist that Obama has invented is that, once the world finds out about the big deception, (and we will all be buying extra sweaters by then) he will be no longer in charge. His successors will have to deal with the disastrous consequences of his actions.
IOW, clean up the mess after the elephant has left the room.
Just a tiny correction with great importance: it’s not “whether atmospheric CO2 rises above 0.40% (400 ppm)” but above 0,04% atmospheric CO2, ten times less. Certainly a case of transposed numbers.
I noticed this too. Get the numbers right please or lose credibility.
VO, 4,
Indeed – and agreed.
As noted on an earlier thread, the concentration of CO2 I our atmosphere, to the nearest one tenth of one per cent [pretty accurate for he watermelon folk] – is zero.
Zilch.
Nada.
Auto, appreciating more and more a decent sense of perspective . . . . . .
No loss of credibility, just a typo – a simple transposition of numbers that is easily fixed.
My math says 90% less (0.40 – 0.36), i.e. 0.9X less. A department store would never announce a sale for 10X less. This may be a drawback of school changes made me skip the year they would have taught percentages. 🙂
Hey, it’s not just me, see a kindred spirit (someone actually bought a domain for this!?) at http://timesless.com/
Two weeks ago I told my brokers to divest all my Canadian Energy stocks and put the money into US companies.
Not because I’m green, but because the combination of a provincial Liberal government in my home province, a Liberal federal government, and an NDP socialist government in Alberta, home of the oil sands, will pretty much assure we’re going to dive head first into this swamp.
Our new Prime Minister with his shiny new majority government is going to show the world how it’s done.
Poor Canada can look forward to four years of seeing our combined potential flushed down the toilet of green PC.
You’re right, Peter, and there was Junior ahead of the COP fest, all dressed up and eager to VOLUNTEER billions of our taxpayer dollars into this green cespool even before the shakedown began. Where’s Harper when we need him? Oh wait.. I forgot. We elected Junior even though he wasn’t ready.
Flight from Canadian energy to American safety.
Hmmm. If you don’t mind, can you tell me what industry groups ?
Canada has been disappointing. While the rest of the world was throwing a fiat party, you guys held tight and seemed to managing your vast resources well. In the end, I’m glad I didn’t buy any of your currency although it was part of my overall plan.
Definitely threw me for a loop.
From Montreal totally agree with you we have a wacky bunch up here. I worked for Calgary Power now called Atco. Coal Fired and supper.
I think Calgary Power changed their name to Transalta Corporation. They do operate a lot of coal-fired electrical equipment, but also have a dozen hydro sites in Alberta. You can see the Cascade plant when you drive from Calgary to Banff.
Actually Peter now and for the next few years will be the time to invest in Canada. Your dollar is at a huge advantage and the oil & gas stocks are taking a beating. You are getting more than a 50% cut in price. Be careful but there will be bargains to be had if you can hold them for half a decade until things turn around.
The practice of buying a valued asset when others are fleeing ?
Alberta, and to a lesser extent Manitoba and Saskatchewan, have been the source of much of Canada’s original wealth (farm, forest, mines and fossil fuels). Eastern Canadians don’t have a clue how much the green agenda is going to hurt the economy. Canada has a systems of equalization payments among the provinces. There won’t be much flowing east – how are they going to pay for their wind farms and solar arrays, let alone all the usual costs of our myriad of social programs. Now we have to add in 25,000-50,000 new immigrants, most of whom bring nothing with them. Canada, which had one of the best bottom lines in the world, will rapidly descend into debt.
Well, if everything’s going to be voluntary, then the prez should be soliciting the public to join him and the rest of the world leadership (Al, too) in volunteering to be individually austere and “live entirely on intrinsic satisfaction”.
To be “one” with my inner emptiness ?
Perhaps he should reward the homeless who already have “their feet to the fire” (to keep from freezing).
The greens do not want cheap, unlimited energy. If we suddenly found the secret to generating unlimited cheap, “safe” energy available to all of humanity, they would fight it to their dying breath. I remember what happened in the 1980s when the world briefly thought we had discovered cold fusion that would give us just that. The environmentalist left was outraged at the prospect because they would lose control of their long-term agenda – totalitarianism.
Totally agree with you. Why are they not pressing for Fusion Reactors in the distant future and Thorium Reactors in the near future? These technologies would not have the hazards of current Fission reactors and would provide almost unlimited energy. The Left wing love to think they have the interests of the poor and the disadvantaged at heart. The reality is they love to impose political correctness, micro-management and nannying of peoples lives and assuaging their guilt of what our white ancestors did hundreds of years ago. I have said this before but we have a three pronged attack on Western civilisation, two economic (destroying capitalism by a) making nations default on National Debt repayments by b) Increasing the price and unreliability of energy). The third is allowing jihadists, to enter mainly Europe but also the USA.
I think we have at present a scenario as dangerous as Fascism in the 1930’s.
No doubt they are telegraphing what they want.
http://systemchangenotclimatechange.org/sites/default/files/styles/article_650w/public/article-image/systemchange5_0.jpeg?itok=wM7WVD_2
Very true. Independence for everyone is not what they want. Completely off the grid and totally independent for food, water and energy is their worst nightmare. How can they control everyone and dictate to them if they are self sufficient? Very strange dichotomy. I always love sending people to otherpower.com for a view of how people can do it themselves.
They still think that unlimited, clean and cheap energy would lead to a population boom and destroy the Earth. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Raise the standard of living and population levels off and drops. All cultures, races and religions have experienced it. What do you need to raise the standard of living? Cheap, clean, abundant, base load energy.
“Giving society cheap, abundant energy would be the equivalent of giving an idiot child a machine gun.” [Paul Ehrlich]
+1
Let the world flail around for 10 years with wind and solar while the insider club nails down MSRs.
Institutionalize the International Energy Allocation Agency and decide who gets to be on the board.
Take turns even.
Nah, sounds too hard to pull off.
Might make a good grade B sci fi.
And if anybody knows about idiot children, it’s Ehrlich.
Evan..
Thanks, now I know how much they have been lying to us.
100% agree.
That is 0.04%, not 0.2% =400 ppm.
Typo, 0.04%, not 0.4%
40% if it’s the fact sheet Markey was using.
They like to use the ‘percentage of greenhouse gas’ figure for CO2 because the atmospheric concentration is so laughably small.
One small nit to pick in the essay, 400 ppm is not 0.40%, a typo I’m sure unless someone has ‘readjusted’ how percentages are derived.
One of many adjustments in the climate wars. What’s a decimal place between friends? 🙂
Obama’s policies are already causing hardship and suffering in oil and gas dependent places like Lafayette. Wages are being reduced. One of my customers has had three pay cuts in the last year! At least she still has a job. I hope he is proud of this. I think it is pretty disgusting
In Lafayette, you mean, in Louisiana? Obviously, she works for an evil fossil fuel company. Isn’t she lucky not to be brought up on RICO charges? Think of the children!
/s
Diesel vehicles.
Diesel generator.
We even make bio diesel when stock is available.
We shred woody debris because the piles attract rodents and we don’t eat those yet.
Sometimes we even open burn (aghast) when the weather permits.
I have some rights to a couple of oil wells, but we keep that as private stock.
I’m still waiting for topless women to stroll down my road protesting our lifestyle but that hasn’t happened yet.
“Obama’s policies are already causing hardship and suffering in oil and gas dependent places like Lafayette.”
The decision by the OPEC countries to not place any restrictions on their respective outputs has had 10X the impact on oil prices of any green action Obama has taken.
WOW, talk about some serious comedy….
How do such imberciles gain power?
http://thumbnails.cbc.ca/maven_legacy/thumbnails/77/127/climate-cdn-youth-delegate-ayed-120412.jpg
All in all a pretty amazing twilight zone moment in history
Jeez… all that guy needs is a funny looking moustache…
Yeah, like really spontaneous……I often wonder how these fellow Canadians believe their crappy little apartments are heated, or, how their buses are fueled, which they ride every day, or how their tekky toys are made, out of petrochemicals, how their food gets to Toronto (the center of the world for the uninitiated) from California, and points further. Our world is full of these naive, myopic adult children, who think a steak comes from the package at Safeway.
Youth need to go to a good college to learn how the world runs before they are heard from since they failed to learn anything from their earlier education.
There are no tar sands in Alberta, they are oil not tar, that’s how ignorant one of the signs actually reads.
I volunteer to follow the example of Mr Watts and plant some trees. Perhaps some apple for cider making or some cherry to make some wine/mead from. I need something to celebrate this “mush” with and toast the epic fail that everyone signed onto.
Now we just need to prevent local governments from taking their mush seriously.
Along with local governments you should try to stop the multinationals companies taking action, here are a few, starting with the dumb, broke ones: Apple, Berkshire, Bestbuy, Coke, Colgate, Facebook, GM, Google, Microsoft, Samsung, Unilever, UPS and Walmart. Or take personal action and boycott Apple phones, Android phones, and the internet.
4th paragraph from the bottom is missing a word I think !
” President Obama and the 40,000 climate alarmists gathered in Paris largely these inconvenient realities, and whitewashed the adverse consequences of anti-hydrocarbon policies ” /\ = IGNORED ??.
Largely IGNORED these inconvenient……??
Sure, go ahead, IGNORE me !! LOL
Our climate problems are now solved. The climate has stopped changing for ever. No more global warming, extreme weather events, or rising sea levels. And the United States does not have to pay for it because we are a poor nation with a huge national debt and huge annual trade deficits. We need to move on and fix the problem of Man’s our of control population. We need to gradually reduce our human population as we convert our urban and suburban areas back to forest and wilderness areas.