Claim: Social cost of climate change too low, Stanford scientists say

The ‘social cost’ of carbon dioxide emissions may not be $37, as previously estimated by a recent US government study, but $220. From the Stanford School of Engineering

ecomomic-growth
This image shows the economic growth for nations has historically fluctuated over time. A new Stanford study suggests the long-term impacts of climate change could perturb GDP growth rates even further. Credit: Delavane Diaz

The economic damage caused by a ton of CO2 emissions-often referred to as the “social cost of carbon-could actually be six times higher than the value that the United States uses to guide current energy regulations, and possibly future mitigation policies, Stanford scientists say.

A recent U.S. government study concluded, based on the results of three widely used economic impact models, that an additional ton of CO2 emitted in 2015 would cause US$37 worth of economic damages. These damages are expected to take various forms, including decreased agricultural yields and harm to human health related to climate change.

But according to a new study, published online this week in the journal Nature Climate Change, the actual cost could be much higher. “We estimate that the social cost of carbon is not $37, as previously estimated, but $220,” said study coauthor Frances Moore, a PhD candidate in the Emmett Interdisciplinary Program in Environment and Resources in Stanford’s School of Earth Sciences.

Based on the findings, countries may want to increase their efforts to curb greenhouse gas emissions, said study coauthor Delavane Diaz, a PhD candidate in the Department of Management Science and Engineering. “If the social cost of carbon is higher, many more mitigation measures will pass a cost-benefit analysis,” Diaz said. “Because carbon emissions are so harmful to society, even costly means of reducing emissions would be worthwhile.”

For their study, Moore and Diaz modified a well-known model for calculating the economic impacts of climate change, known as an integrated assessment model, or IAM. Their alternative formulation incorporated recent empirical findings suggesting that climate change could substantially slow economic growth rates, particularly in poor countries.

IAMs are important policy tools. Because they include both the costs and benefits of reducing emissions, they can inform governments about the optimal level of investment in emission reduction. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, for example, uses the $37 average value from three IAMs to evaluate greenhouse gas regulations. Canada, Mexico, the United Kingdom, France, Germany and Norway have also used IAMs to analyze climate and energy policy proposals.

While useful, IAMs have to make numerous simplifying assumptions. One limitation, for example, is that they fail to account for how the damages associated with climate change might persist through time. “For 20 years now, the models have assumed that climate change can’t affect the basic growth-rate of the economy,” Moore said. “But a number of new studies suggest this may not be true. If climate change affects not only a country’s economic output, but also its growth, then that has a permanent effect that accumulates over time, leading to a much higher social cost of carbon.”

In the new study, Moore and Diaz took a widely used IAM, called the Dynamic Integrated Climate-Economy (DICE) model, and modified it in three ways: they allowed climate change to affect the growth rate of the economy; they accounted for adaptation to climate change; and they divided the model into two regions to represent high- and low-income countries.

“There have been many studies that suggest rich and poor countries will fare very differently when dealing with future climate change effects, and we wanted to explore that,” Diaz said.

One major finding of the new study is that the damages associated with reductions in economic growth rates justify very rapid and very early mitigation that is sufficient to limit the rise of global temperature to two degrees Celsius above pre-industrial levels. This is the target that some experts say is necessary to avert the worst effects of global warming.

“This effect is not included in the standard IAMs,” Moore said, “so until now it’s been very difficult to justify aggressive and potentially expensive mitigation measures because the damages just aren’t large enough.”

The pair’s IAM also shows that developing countries may suffer the most from climate change effects. “If poor countries become less vulnerable to climate change as they become richer, then delaying some emissions reductions until they are more fully developed may in fact be the best policy,” Diaz said. “Our model shows that this is a major uncertainty in mitigation policy, and one not explored much in previous work.”

The pair notes two important caveats to their work, however. First, the DICE model’s representation of mitigation is limited. It doesn’t take into account, for example, the fact that low-carbon technologies take time to develop and deploy.

Secondly, while it explores the effects of temperature on economic growth, the model does not factor in the potential for mitigation efforts to also impact growth.

“For these two reasons, the rapid, near-term mitigation level found in our study may not necessarily be economically optimal”, Diaz said. “But this does not change the overall result that if temperature affects economic growth-rates, society could face much larger climate damages than previously thought, and this would justify more stringent mitigation policy.”

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steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 5:02 am

if temperature affects economic growth-rates, society could face much larger climate damages than previously thought

If …

Davis
Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 5:44 am

IAM – is not the full name. It should read IAMSTUPID.

Robert W Turner
Reply to  Davis
January 13, 2015 9:14 am

Ok this is funny.
Their claim: Each ton of CO2 equates to -$220 in the economy.
World CO2 emissions last year: ~40 billion tons
40*10^9 tons CO2 * $220/tonCO2 = $8.8 trillion
That’s over 10% of the entire world’s GDP. Who knew that the direct economic activities that generate about 10% of all GDP are actually COSTING us that much instead! Imagine how rich we’d all be if we were still relying on horses for all transportation, burned candles for light, had no modern medicine, and farmed using donkeys and manual labor.
Seriously, file this one under cuckoo for climate change.

Jimbo
Reply to  Davis
January 13, 2015 10:55 am

Here are the economic costs of the unprecedented rise in co2 – greening biosphere and this bit of awful news late last year.

Food & Agricultural Organization – Release date: 11/12/2014
World cereal production in 2014 to surpass the record in 2013
World cereal production in 2014 is forecast at a new record of 2 532 million tonnes (including rice in milled terms), 10 million tonnes higher than last month’s forecast and 7 million tonnes (0.3 percent) above last year’s peak….
[more reported on WUWT]

Globally standards of living are up compared to 1980, 1990 or the year 2000. The paper itself is garbage. Garbage in garbage and speculative drivel out. They did use a “Dynamic Integrated Climate-Economy (DICE) model” after all.

iSchadow
Reply to  Davis
January 13, 2015 12:19 pm

The ghost of the late Stephen Schneider, Stanford Professor of Climatology and lead author of many IPCC reports, still haunts the corridors of Stanford, muttering, “We need to get some broad based support, to capture the public’s imagination… So we have to offer up scary scenarios, make simplified, dramatic statements and make little mention of any doubts… Each of us has to decide what the right balance is between being effective and being honest.”

TYoke
Reply to  Davis
January 13, 2015 6:19 pm

As soon as one sees a quote like “These damages are expected to take various forms, including decreased agricultural yields”, it is time to toss the “study” in the circular file.
CO2 fertilization is indisputably, and substantially, INCREASING crop yields. A conservative estimate is 10%.
CO2 fertilization is really beyond serious dispute, and to claim otherwise makes one a “denier”, to borrow a term.

PiperPaul
Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 5:49 am

“If” + “could” = “don’t know”

Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 5:49 am

Yeah, and watch out for those bullfrogs with wings.

brians356
Reply to  mikerestin
January 13, 2015 9:46 am

And bullfrogs with pistols in their pockets, and not afraid of Black Snakes. (Thank you Dan Rather.)

ferdberple
Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 6:18 am

These damages are expected to take various forms, including decreased agricultural yields and harm to human health related to climate change.

The problem with sitting in an ivory tower playing with computers is that you aren’t out in the field exercising your common sense. Around the world increased CO2 has lead to a substantial increase in agricultural yields. Yet the model says decreased yields. Around the world people are living longer and in better heath during a time of increased CO2 and global warming. Yet the models say decreased health.
The observational data shows that global warming leads to increased agriculture and improved health. Models are speculation, they are not observation. Speculation is not evidence. Observation is evidence. Where is the observational evidence showing that global warming and increased CO2 is on average anything but beneficial?

MarkW
Reply to  ferdberple
January 13, 2015 6:41 am

Another of today’s articles cites a study out of Australia that finds that it’s cold that kills people, not heat.
As usual, the warmistas make their assumptions. Build them into their models, and then declare that the science supports them.

TRM
Reply to  ferdberple
January 13, 2015 7:58 am

Reality? Nice place and I think they should visit it sometime. Like you point out they “assume” that rising CO2 is bad and the ONLY equation they are willing to look at is the “cost of reducing CO2 vs benefits of reducing CO2”. There is nothing about the value of adding more CO2. It is totally divorced from reality.

George Lawson
Reply to  ferdberple
January 13, 2015 9:03 am

This is surely a spoof document that we can all see through,as it does not show anwhere how they have arrived at their silly conclusions.
“A recent U.S. government study concluded”
Obviously she is trying to make her name with Obama at all costs, especially as she was given a huge fee to come up with the right answer.
As usual, no mention of 18 years of no warming.
“These damages are expected to take various forms, including decreased agricultural yields and harm to human health related to climate change”
She obviously hasn’t read that World food production in 2014 was an all time record.even though she and her cohorts are insisting that GW has not stopped, and I wonder where she obtained her information about the effect on health from climate change? On sorry, from a model.

Jimbo
Reply to  ferdberple
January 13, 2015 11:13 am

Our atmosphere is currently at 400ppm. Will 600ppm destroy agriculture. Yes according to the models, no say experiments which have been running for years apparently.
Pity the greenhouse growers for they know not what they do.

Abstract
Technical aspects, management and control of CO2 enrichment in greenhouses-refereed paper
This paper outlines the present state of the art of CO2 enrichment as it is practiced in commercial greenhouses, particularly in moderate climates. Some scientific work is discussed and conclusions and practical guidelines are presented……
…..CO2 strategies should be based on physiological aspects (CO2 level of 1000 ppm favorable), economic criteria (costs for enrichment increase at increasing ventilation)……
http://www.actahort.org/books/268/268_11.htm
=========
Plug “N” Grow
When and how much CO2 ?
Generally, enriching the garden’s air to raise the level between 1,000 and 1,500 ppm is recommended. There is apparently no benefit to augment the concentration higher than 1,500 ppm.
http://www.novabiomatique.com/hydroponics-systems/plant-555-gardening-with-co2-explained.cfm

Jimbo
Reply to  ferdberple
January 13, 2015 11:15 am

Small correction
“Our atmosphere is currently at 400ppm”
Should read:
“Our atmosphere currently has 400ppm of co2”

tom s
Reply to  ferdberple
January 13, 2015 11:54 am

Well you know that sea level has been rising and soon NYC will be under water, don’t you? I mean at 1-3mm/yr it will eventually happen in a few centuries as long as the next glacial does get here before then.

Boulder Skeptic
Reply to  ferdberple
January 13, 2015 3:51 pm

Ferdberple is correct — “Around the world increased CO2 has lead to a substantial increase in agricultural yields. Yet the model says decreased yields. Around the world people are living longer and in better heath during a time of increased CO2 and global warming. Yet the models say decreased health.”
{my emphasis}
In case you all haven’t noticed yet, the only thing wrong with models developed by progressives is a minus sign missing at the front.
So whenever you read this stuff, just multiply by -1 to correct the output.
So from this study and model output, I conclude that we get +$220US benefit from every ton of CO2 emissions, rather than -$220US. The government was previously underestimating only +$37US of benefit.
…there fixed it for you all.
Or, alternatively as kids, progressive children started playing the “opposite day” game and forgot to ever stop.
Or, alternatively, warmists are educated far beyond their IQs.
Bruce

george e. smith
Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 7:07 am

What is the social cost of 20% less world wide food production if we go back to 280 ppm CO2 like everybody wants to do.
That’s about 1.4 billion people who would starve to death.
Let’s start the program on the Stanford campus.

Reply to  george e. smith
January 13, 2015 7:58 am

I don’t think “everybody wants to” go back to 280 ppm, though some would have you believe that.

Patrick
Reply to  george e. smith
January 13, 2015 11:00 am

Some want to go back to 350. Reminds me of a South Park cartoon.

Gentle Tramp
Reply to  george e. smith
January 13, 2015 11:39 am

Quite so. Therefore we should speak about the benefits of CO2 and not of non-existing alleged costs…
By the way, this is a good opportunity for a second run of the “Carbonist Manifesto” after it was mostly overlooked when posted in an already older blog discussion some weeks ago:
MANIFESTO OF THE CARBONIST PARTY
Preamble:
A spectre is haunting the Earth — the spectre of carbonism. All the powers of the old World have entered into a holy alliance to exorcise this spectre: Pope and UN, Obama and Merkel, Greenpeace Radicals and Internet IPCC-trolls.
Where is the party in opposition that has not been decried as carbonistic by its opponents in power? Where is the opposition that has not hurled back the branding reproach of carbonism, against the more advanced opposition parties, as well as against its reactionary adversaries?
Two things result from this fact:
I. Carbonism is already acknowledged by all World powers to be itself a power.
II. It is high time that Carbonists should openly, in the face of the whole world, publish their views, their aims, their tendencies, and meet this nursery tale of the spectre of carbonism with a manifesto of the Carbon Liberation Party itself.
To this end, carbonists of various nationalities have assembled in the World Wide Web and sketched the following manifesto, to be published as a clear statement how valuable and important the liberation of carbon is in order to deliver enough CO2 as essential plant food for a better human nourishment and much improved and greener environment.

george e. smith
Reply to  george e. smith
January 13, 2015 1:09 pm

I was meaning everyone that is important, namely the purveyors of this tripe.

Jimbo
Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 12:19 pm

We must tackle global warming now! It has a social and financial cost (and benefit).

Stanford School of Engineering
Corporate Sponsors
…..
BP
Chevron
…..
Exxon-Mobile
…..
Pacific Gas and Electric (PG&E)
Alfred P. Sloan Foundation
….
http://engineering.stanford.edu/portals/student/academic-support-and-resources/corporate-sponsors

Editor
Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 1:56 pm

If … emissions reduction measures were effective, then their cost could be as low as $220 per ton of emission reduction. But they aren’t effective, so the cost is much much higher. Computer models show that at any cost above $1.23/t they aren’t cost-effective.

Reply to  steveta_uk
January 13, 2015 3:01 pm

One wonders what the social cost would be of making electric power intermittent and 4x to 10x more expensive. How many hospitals would have to close? How much manufacturing would be lost? How far would harvests fall? How much R&D would disappear along with lost profits? How many emergency services would have to be terminated? How much would unemployment rise?
How, in short, do the very well known and quantifiable economic benefits of CO2 compare to the purported costs?
The important metric is cost-benefit. Not just cost.

steveta_uk
Reply to  Pat Frank
January 14, 2015 1:25 am

One wonders what the social cost would be of making electric power intermittent

Ask Kenya : answer is here.

george e. smith
Reply to  steveta_uk
January 14, 2015 1:58 pm

If the social cost of climate change is too low, how do they propose to raise the social cost of climate change, so that it is in line with other social costs, like poverty, racism, starvation, disease ….. ??
I would think the idea would be to reduce the social costs of any malady.

Bill Illis
January 13, 2015 5:10 am

So far, there is not a single negative impact from the small temperature increase. Not a real one anyway. There is just a lot of exaggeration and boy crying wolf but nothing at all has really happened.
The only real impact is that plants are growing better. Is that not a positive impact instead. There is no “cost”, there is only “gain”.

Paul
Reply to  Bill Illis
January 13, 2015 5:23 am

“there is not a single negative impact from the small temperature increase.”
I always ask that of alarmists; Tell us exactly what HAS changed from all of this horrific CO2 and the 0.8C warming over the past 100 years? Name ONE thing! A real effect, not modeled, projected, or predicted.
Concludes any discussions, queues the ad hom, or steers into world population “problem”.

AndyZ
Reply to  Paul
January 13, 2015 6:12 am

You clearly missed the polar vortex! And… storms and stuff.

Paul
Reply to  Paul
January 13, 2015 6:25 am

“You clearly missed the polar vortex”
polar vortex, from CO2? Did you forget your /sarc tag?

Craig Moore
Reply to  Bill Illis
January 13, 2015 9:12 am

Actually there are more impacts than that. In Montana, Glacier Park set a record for visitations for 2014 with the commensurate tourist dollar impact. Also, Montana’s snow pack is currently 109% of normal. The winter recreation industry is thriving. Those lemons are blessed with a golden liquid. Imagination and vision are key to grasping opportunity. No person or country can merely hope there way to success and prosperity.

more soylent green!
Reply to  Craig Moore
January 13, 2015 9:20 am

Egads! Commerce is up? That means redistribution is down! Horrors!
/sarc

Goldie
January 13, 2015 5:11 am

This is just a play for more funding based on some creative accounting. I wonder what the social cost of diverting funds to climate studies and meetings actually is – not might be. Billions of dollars spent – actual progress – nil.

Reply to  Goldie
January 13, 2015 5:22 am

Right on, Goldie. Channel those funds to mitigate a Superfund site to do some real good. By the way, with all the hoopla over global warming, when was the last time anyone heard anyone else even mention the word “Superfund”?

Reply to  Goldie
January 13, 2015 6:15 am

I disagree.
This is a play to give the alarmists a little more ammo to start a UN tax or carbon credits.
Liars like Obama will latch on to any lie to save their cause.
These guys (scientists or model majors?) are cannon fodder for the cause.
Since imo they cannot believe they have done any science they dig through their make up data for anything.
They lie, torture data and make up correlations no matter how remote the possibilities there is an endless supply of if, might, may, could, should etc and then they ignore all the good CO2 does for people.
Maybe they consider CO2 bad because this is an attempt to increase control of the masses?
Ya think?
“We’ll tell you when and how much you can breathe.”

Boulder Skeptic
Reply to  mikerestin
January 13, 2015 4:01 pm

Bingo Mike…
“If the social cost of carbon is higher, many more mitigation measures will pass a cost-benefit analysis,” Diaz said. “Because carbon emissions are so harmful to society, even costly means of reducing emissions would be worthwhile.”
…and then, they came for your wallet.
Bruce

Reply to  Goldie
January 14, 2015 10:12 am

That’s dead on!

Markopanama
January 13, 2015 5:14 am

What if higher temps and the demonstrated improvements in plant productivity INCREASE economic growth. Seems all the historic “warm periods” are associated with substantial advance of human civilization.
IAM – models all the way down. Switch the assumptions to benefits and see what happens.

Reply to  Markopanama
January 13, 2015 5:36 am

This is a classic case of finding the results you’re seeking. The whole exercise is biased from the get go.

Reply to  Markopanama
January 13, 2015 6:49 am

I thought these guys hated growth, wtf?
Why would they offer help increasing growth?
Sounds a lot like the way the MSM helps select another gop candidate.

P. Wayne Townsend
January 13, 2015 5:16 am

“IAM” — it is the “M” in that phrase that tells all — stands for Model.

Patrick
January 13, 2015 5:18 am

The only damage I have seen in an economoy is largely caused by politicians, greed, religion, poverty and war. I have not seen ANY economic “damage” caused by CO2. Not in my nearly 49 years.

Alba
Reply to  Patrick
January 13, 2015 5:56 am

Is there a prize for being the first person to mention religion – negatively, of course – in a WUWT post? Seems like there’s a quite a few people who think that there is. Also seems like there’s a consensus (so it must be right) among a certain group of people that religion can only be viewed negatively. Or maybe that’s just an article of faith.

Patrick
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 6:21 am

Crusades, remember those, or Islamist attacks? And the retaliatory attacks by each sect, remember those? Or child sex abuse in the Catholic Church, remember that (I certainly do)? Wars? God is on *OUR* side? No? Lets not forget tribal differences, even language FFS. *ALL* have bases in “religions/faith/BELIEF” structures, maybe not monotheistic/ordered religion, as with Judaism/Christianity/Islam, but religion all the same.

Alex
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 6:25 am

You seem to be overly sensitive about religion. Did you actually notice the other four things?

MarkW
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 6:45 am

I find it fascinating the way people who take great pride in knowing nothing about religion, hate all religion so much.
It’s almost like they have made up their mind and are searching for evidence to support their personal biases.

Theo Barker
Reply to  MarkW
January 13, 2015 7:28 am

And in turn create their own religion…

Patrick
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 6:59 am

Can you indentify anything in my post that is incorrect Alex and MarkW that cannot be proven with a simple book search? Having lived in deeply religious countries and communities, and having read the 3 main “bibles” I do have some expereince. My position/view is not uninfomred. Recent attacks in Sydney, Australia, Paris, France were not spawned from a religious perspective?

Alex
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 7:38 am

Patrick
I was not addressing you. I was addressing Alba. The timeshift in posts can be confusing. I have no problem with what you said.

schitzree
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 7:57 am

Communism Patrick. Atheist are just as capable as believers of promoting hatred and fear. As you have amply shown here.

Patrick
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 8:39 am

Anyone is capable of these acts. Anyone! Religionist, atheist, agnostic alike. The point, I guess, is using religion as the “tool” to “justify” aggression or because you happen to be offended (Cartoons). In the words of Stephen Fry (Caution! Some fruity language).
http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/706825-it-s-now-very-common-to-hear-people-say-i-m-rather

MarkW
Reply to  Alba
January 13, 2015 1:33 pm

Patrick, your error, like that of most bigots, is assigning to the object of your hatred, traits that are not appropriate.
You also have a nasty habit of assuming that all religions are equal, if you knew half as much as you think you do, you would know that is not correct.

Patrick
Reply to  Alba
January 14, 2015 7:06 am

MarkW, thankyou for the insult. A bigot, moi? Ha! BTW, ALL of the 3 main monotheistic religions worship THE SAME GOD! So go deal with that little “paradox” buddy!

Reply to  Patrick
January 13, 2015 6:00 am

That’s basically true, but one could argue that without any of those things, we probably wouldn’t have an economy ;)…we wouldn’t need one.

MarkW
Reply to  Patrick
January 13, 2015 6:46 am

Religion in your list, is actually a subset of the other things. Politicians have done things in the name of religion, that they would have done anyway, they would have just found another excuse.

TheLastDemocrat
Reply to  Patrick
January 13, 2015 7:05 am

Like religion?
Yes, that darn Protestant Work Ethic!
Imagine where we would be without it! Good riddance!
(NB: “Protestant Work Ethic” first outlined by Marxist Max Weber, both religion-hating atheists.)

Patrick
Reply to  TheLastDemocrat
January 13, 2015 7:45 am

My former wife is Protestant, and she is very religious.

Reply to  TheLastDemocrat
January 13, 2015 9:57 am

Yet she divorced you…

Reply to  TheLastDemocrat
January 13, 2015 10:32 am

…and you know this how?

Patrick
Reply to  TheLastDemocrat
January 13, 2015 10:44 am

Yes, she did. Religion was not the reason, as we are both, fundamentally, Christian. 90-110hr working weeks were however!

MarkW
Reply to  TheLastDemocrat
January 13, 2015 1:34 pm

“My former wife is Protestant, and she is very religious.”
That would explain it.

Patrick
Reply to  TheLastDemocrat
January 14, 2015 7:11 am

Talk about not kowning a suituation. So not only do you insult me, you insult my former wife and HER faith! Well done! The Protestant faith is an off-shoot of Christianity. It’s one reason why there are no-go zones, catholick/protestant, in Northern Ireland.

Reply to  Patrick
January 13, 2015 3:45 pm

Completely off subject, but…
The problem with your blanket attack on religion, Patrick, is that you’re doing exactly the same thing that the Stanford researchers are doing: noting only negative impacts and completely ignoring positive ones. That people sometimes do terrible things is not a fault of religion. Despicable things have been done by nominal disciples of various religions. By “nominal” I mean those who profess faith but in actuality their adherence or understanding of their faith is nominal, their understanding of its teachings is simplistic, and the atrocities they commit are condemned by their own religion. They twist their religion to justify their acts. However, atrocities committed in the name of religion are far eclipsed by those committed by irreligious people. For example, consider the hundred million or more who were killed or starved because of Communism which is atheistic.
One can argue that, on balance, religions have been perhaps the greatest civilizing force in human history. Religion is a formalized philosophy of life and death that usually includes principles and rules for dealing with other people and encourages introspection. The most prominent religions in the world today all teach respect for others (and even the natural world), tolerance, charity, hospitality, piety. It’s difficult to argue that “love (ie; respect) your neighbor as yourself” is a bad idea. The so-called Golden Rule is a tenet of all the major world religions. The philosophical underpinnings of most modern constitutions are founded on Christian principles. The idea of a secular, non-religious government came from the experiences of Christians who were persecuted for their refusal to accept the teachings of the state church.

Patrick
Reply to  Lauren R.
January 14, 2015 7:19 am

No-one needs faith or a religion to hold “christian” values (Given that many Christian values were hijacked from pagamism. Easter? LOL). You will also note that most protesters are singling out ONE of the issues i list. I list several, INCLUDING religion. And yet, RELIGION has been singled out! Tough! History proves religion is, at the fundamental level, the driver of most ill.
If you are not one of us, you are against us!
The sooner we “monkeys” realise that there is no “God”, the better. I understand Gene Roddernberry had the same vision!

CodeTech
January 13, 2015 5:20 am

Really? Releasing more CO2 into the atmosphere results in lowered agricultural yields?
What planet does this occur on???

PiperPaul
Reply to  CodeTech
January 13, 2015 5:53 am

D’oh, on planet D’earth, of course.

Reply to  PiperPaul
January 13, 2015 8:02 am

+1

Tony B
Reply to  CodeTech
January 13, 2015 8:23 am

There’ll be a few more “horrific” studies due out before the State of the Union Address. Obama needs ammunition to impose taxes or more spending on the environment otherwise the Greenies will pull their political funds. The idea is to create soundbites. They can be proven wrong after the address, because no one will really care then.

Reply to  CodeTech
January 13, 2015 9:29 am

Amazing, isn’t it. Especially since it’s actually rainfall that lowers crop yields. And droughts improve them.
And, no I’m not insane. Tee hee. Too hoo. Ha ha. Hee hee. Abedee abedee abedee

Bobl
Reply to  CodeTech
January 13, 2015 10:47 pm

Earth in the bizzaro universe…

January 13, 2015 5:22 am

What then is this “Carbon Pollution”?
A sinister, evil collusion?
CO2, it is clean,
Makes for growth, makes it green,
A transfer of wealth, a solution.
Withe the explanation: http://lenbilen.com/2014/02/22/co2-the-life-giving-gas-not-carbon-pollution-a-limerick-and-explanation/

FerdinandAkin
January 13, 2015 5:25 am

The Powers That Be are going to ram a carbon tax on the citizens one way or another. They have no empirical evidence of Carbon Dioxide harming the environment, but resort to slanted models to show hypothetical effects sometime in the future. Then they roll out the precautionary principle that it is better to do something drastic now (just in case), rather than wait and see if the future is as bad as they predict.

Paul
Reply to  FerdinandAkin
January 13, 2015 12:04 pm

Once the carbon taxes are in place it’s a win-win for the alarmist, no matter what happens.
If it cools; “See, the taxes worked!”
If it warms; “See, more taxes are needed!”

January 13, 2015 5:26 am

All those negative effects seem to be in line with Greenie goals: shrinking economies, reduced populations, etc. What is their problem?

January 13, 2015 5:34 am

I hope they follow this with an assessment of the costs of things like wind turbines and solar arrays, obviously including the backup capacities for when those can’t meet demand.

Admad
January 13, 2015 5:34 am

They have not even begun to consider the social cost of energy poverty in the developed world, caused by CO2 taxation pricing electricity beyond the means of the less-well-off in society.
They have not even begun to consider the social cost of energy poverty in the developing world, caused by lack of access to electricity and the consequences to health arising from that (e.g. indoor cooking fires).
Do I detect the stench of BULL541T in search of a grant?
Why yes, I believe I do.

Reply to  Admad
January 13, 2015 10:01 am

“IAMs … include both the costs and benefits of reducing emissions”
Funny how the costs and benefits are never discussed. The language is always slanted towards alarmism by the climastrologists.

Mayor of Venus
Reply to  Eric Sincere
January 13, 2015 12:07 pm

I’ve heard of “doubling down”, but going from $37/ton of CO2 to $220/ton is a factor of 6! They’re getting really desperate now.

DD More
Reply to  Admad
January 13, 2015 12:41 pm

Instead of models, we could go with the pricing mechanism from our recent past.
As we reported almost two weeks ago, the Gore and Pachauri advised Chicago Carbon Exchange (CCX) has closed. Closing price? A nickel per ton of CO2.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2010/11/08/public-carbon-trading-dead-in-the-usa/
After all we have this on ‘models’ based on ‘climate models’.
Richard Betts, who heads the Climate Impacts area of the UK Met Office, claims his areas of expertise as a climate modeler and was one of the lead authors of the IPCC’s 5th Assessment Report (WG2). Says –

“Everyone (Apart from a few who think that observations of a decade or three of small forcing can be extrapolated to indicate the response to long-term larger forcing with confidence) agrees that we can’t predict the long-term response of the climate to ongoing CO2 rise with great accuracy. It could be large, it could be small. We don’t know. The old-style energy balance models got us this far. We can’t be certain of large changes in future, but can’t rule them out either.”

So your carbon pricing scam study is based on “We Don’t Know.”

jim
January 13, 2015 5:37 am

Another GIGO model.

Reply to  jim
January 13, 2015 6:05 am

Or as I like to say:
Oooga in, Chucka out 🙂

Quinn the Eskimo
January 13, 2015 5:39 am

But for fossil fuels, many millions in North America would have frozen to death in the last 10 days. Yet this fool, and EPA, think they endanger human health and welfare.

Beta Blocker
January 13, 2015 5:45 am

What would be the political fallout in 2016 if the Republican candidate for President threw all caution to the winds and simply labeled AGW as a hoax? Would that policy position virtually guarantee the election of Hillary Clinton or Elizabeth Warren, whichever one is eventually the Democrat’s nominee?

Reply to  Beta Blocker
January 13, 2015 6:06 am

Yeah…pretty much.
The general public has no idea about the amount of chicanery that’s been at play here for decades.

John Peter
Reply to  Beta Blocker
January 13, 2015 6:18 am

If Inhofe grabs the opportunity to call GISS/NOAA and USHCN to account for their “homogenization” of US and Global temperatures and can show (along the lines of Goddard/Heller and others) that the global warming is substantially “man made” rather than CO2 induced, then this could be a great idea. I am waiting for the announcement that a Senate hearing has been set up and an enquiry launched into the veracity of the way temperature records are treated. I would include the difference between tide gauges and satellite measurements of sea levels as well as Argos raw v. homogenized data for ocean heat content. Will I be lucky or draw a short straw?

ferdberple
Reply to  Beta Blocker
January 13, 2015 6:34 am

Obama didn’t mention his climate plans during the past election. What is require is a presidential candidate that simply points out that one cannot control the weather via taxes. And if you cannot control the weather you cannot control the climate.
Over the years I’ve heard bad weather blamed on everything from nuclear weapons testing to Chinese smog. In the past it was blamed on witches and people were burned at the stake.
No matter what we do, no matter how high a tax we pay, bad weather will continue to happen. As has happened countless times throughout history. Long before anyone used fossil fuels as an energy source.
What we as people can do is prepare for bad weather. Make sure our houses are well insulated, our energy supplies are secure, and our roads, bridges and seawalls are in good repair.
No matter what action we take, problems will always find us. Even if you had unlimited funds you could not prevent all problems. Thus, common sense tells us the solution to our problems is to be prepared.
When it looks like rain, the solution is to carry an umbrella. The solution is not to try and change the weather.

MarkW
Reply to  Beta Blocker
January 13, 2015 6:50 am

Every poll I’ve seen puts global warming dead last in the list of things that worry people.
The number of people who believe that global warming is going to cause measurable problems is small and shrinking by the year.
The media would make a big deal about it, but they would do that no matter what any Republican said.

January 13, 2015 5:45 am

What is this “social” costs anyway? People getting mad about hot temps? Relationships breaking down? Fights breaking out? Anytime you see “social” anything, suspect socialist propaganda developed by psychology majors.
Socialists, when you want to define something, be specific instead of the adolescent “social” meme.

Jim Francisco
Reply to  beng1
January 13, 2015 8:01 am

Well beng1, there have been a lot of black eyes in the climate science and MSM crowds lately. What does a black eye treatment cost? I just paid $191 to get my teeth cleaned.

January 13, 2015 5:45 am

The pair’s IAM also shows that developing countries may suffer the most from climate change effects. “If poor countries become less vulnerable to climate change as they become richer, then delaying some emissions reductions until they are more fully developed may in fact be the best policy,” Diaz said. “Our model shows that this is a major uncertainty in mitigation policy, and one not explored much in previous work.”

Note how developing countries’ vulnerability to climate change actually militates against imposing emissions restrictions.

Patrick Bols
January 13, 2015 5:45 am

sorry to read this crap. it was concocted by a PhD wannabe. it is about time we start focussing on the social cost of real calamities, just mentioning the ebola crisis but there are many more real threats to economies throughout the world. Mr (DR?) wannabe might better spend his ammunition on real stuff like that.

Bubba Cow
Reply to  Patrick Bols
January 13, 2015 7:35 am

Department of Management Science and Engineering

did it for me

Reply to  Bubba Cow
January 13, 2015 9:52 am

Geology used to be a venerable, no nonsense science until it got annointed “Earth Sciences” a wishy washy step towards social sciences fuzziness. Social Science, Political Science… call themselves “Science” right in the name of their (arty) subject. I remember over 50 years ago, a faculty of Home Economics, which was a fairly apt name until militant women who were arising during those times caused the subject to be changed to Domestic Science (I was in sympathy with much of the women’s rights cause but I don’t forgive them diluting and degrading the term science. In the 50s and 60s at the beginning of the so-called Space Age everyone wanted to call themselves engineers and scientists. Even adds on TV for dish soap claimed their product had been ‘engineered’ to clean your dishes and be gentle on your hands. After that breakthrough, everything got ‘engineered’.
The ‘arts’ need this prop because there is a lot of doubt that they are sciences. They surely are not scientific in their highly subjective, ideological, take-a-rapist-to-lunch style of inquiry. It is precisely why, despots add the term “democratic” to their counties’ names: Democratic Republic of Zaire and how about “Deutsche Demokratische Republik” one of the most tyrannical spots on earth for about 60 years. Similarly the EU “Social Democrats”, Canada’s “New Democratic Party” and even US Democrats. These guys need to advertise otherwise they might be thought not to be so.

Jimbo
Reply to  Patrick Bols
January 13, 2015 11:46 am

Not only is she a PhD wannabe, she is also an activist wannabe.

…..She combines statistical and mathematical modeling with agricultural data and climate model output in order to better understand how farmers will respond to a changing climate…..
She observed and participated in several of the UNFCCC meetings, culminating in COP15 in Copenhagen.
https://earth.stanford.edu/frances-moore

This is not a good start at all.

Boulder Skeptic
Reply to  Patrick Bols
January 13, 2015 4:25 pm

Patrick — “it is about time we start focussing on the social cost of real calamities…”
Or more rightly, maybe we need to start focusing on the negative social costs of climate science related PhD candidates. They seem to be the biggest threat to our future well-being.
Bruce

Eyal Porat
January 13, 2015 5:46 am

This is a complete “make believe” “research”.
Let us suppose there is actually negative influence on economy.
Let us also suppose there is negative influence on agriculture…
Really?!
CO2 is proved to be net benefit to plants – either by excess growth or by endurance to heat and dryness.
Hot climate historically was beneficial to civilizations – all over the world. It was the cold that did the most damage.
This is so maddening, seeing “scientists” pretending to do science but only a “make believe” one with spurious suppositions that are fed to those ever knowing computer models that spew the junk they are fed obediently.
GIGO all the way to the press.

Jim Francisco
Reply to  Eyal Porat
January 13, 2015 8:05 am

Can you imagine the social cost if the crazys get their way and no fossel fuels were allowed to be used?

January 13, 2015 5:47 am

Chasing Stupid.

Will Hudson
January 13, 2015 5:48 am

“IAM” very disappointed that this has come down to nothing more than a roll of the “DICE”. None of these people live on a planet resembling, in any way, this third rock from the Sun called Earth. All models should be confined to the catwalk.

hunter
January 13, 2015 5:57 am

This PhD student has been well trained in the art of rent seeking by way of bs. There are no rational arguments to offer that show even $37 per ton of “economic damage” from CO2, much less $220.
Hansen, Mann, Gore, Steyer, Grantham and the others seeking to profit so nicely from the climate obsession should pay this kid nicely.

January 13, 2015 6:03 am

$37 or $220, that is quite some uncertainty.
But predicating the future is always hard. I personally find their conclusions to be logical.
Poverty is more of a problem now.
Climate Change may be a problem later.
Deal with Poverty now and Climate Change when you have the cash.
But I don’t need a model that is very sensitive to initial assumptions in order to work that out.

Reply to  M Courtney
January 13, 2015 10:09 am

I have a great problem with the idea of the plausibility of a scientific construct made by politicians (Thatcher, Dr. Evil Maurice Strong…) for other purposes. So far, it’s just as if the juggernaut of global warming was never postulated. So far it’s just more of the same stuff we’ve had for millions of years. Why should one be wondering if it is going to cause a disaster. Without all this we would simply be saying “Its a scorcher of a day!” “Boy, its colder than a witches heart, today.” By golly, the wind last week blew over my 400 year old maple tree”. All the real evidence points to the 30s and 40s still holding the real record for warmth in the instrumental record (all the state high records in the US and provinces in Canada still have 1930s as the hottest). We all know that Hansen, when he found 1998 not to be the hottest, had the record jiggered to make it the hottest after the fact.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/07/14/newly-found-weather-records-show-1930s-as-being-far-worse-than-the-present-for-extreme-weather/
http://solarcycle24com.proboards.com/thread/168?page=38
and many others.

theBuckWheat
January 13, 2015 6:04 am

The warmer the climate in the wheat-growing areas of Canada, the further north a viable wheat crop can be grown. Every meter that line moves north means thousands of additional bushels of grain.

Reply to  theBuckWheat
January 13, 2015 6:24 am

yeah…and how far has it moved in the past 100yrs?

ferdberple
Reply to  jimmaine
January 13, 2015 6:56 am

Canada is so warm that we need to grow winter wheat. Regular wheat won’t grow ’cause as a nation we haven’t yet invented summer. Instead we have only two seasons. Cold and colder.

Quinn the Eskimo
January 13, 2015 6:08 am

This social cost of carbon model is the one that the MIT econ professor said was garbage. “Scathing MIT Paper Blasts Climate Models as ‘Close to Useless’ & ‘Can get any result one desires'” http://hockeyschtick.blogspot.com/2013/08/scathing-mit-paper-blasts-climate.html

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