Early Winter in Switzerland

Global Warming alarmists have long claimed that snowfall would soon be a thing of the past in the Swiss Alps, that the glaciers would melt, tourists would leave, and the ski industry would die. There CERTAINLY would not be any snowfall at lower altitudes, or any snowfall even before the official start of autumn. Yet today there fell snow as low as 1200 meters, with heavy falls in St. Moritz, a very early time for a blizzard in the alps.

Significant snowfall at St. Moritz on September 19th

As reported by NZZ Online:

Translation to English:

Earlier onset of winter in the Alps
Several disabled passes

With the first snow in the mountains in the middle of the winter moved in September. In Graubünden the snow line was at 1,200 meters. In some places the snow piled up to half a meter high. Yet the soil is warm, the white splendor should melt quickly.

(Sda) On Sunday, a cold front moved from west of the Jura and the Bernese Oberland Grisons in the Alps. In the high alpine regions, there was up to half a meter of fresh snow. In parts of the Grisons, the snow line was at 1,200 meters above sea level or even lower. In the Midlands at the weekend when temperatures dropped some heavy rain and thunderstorms to just over 10 degrees. In Valais, the temperatures were on Saturday still climbed to 28 degrees.

In the snow caused traffic in the Alpine passes of disability. According to the traffic information service Viasuisse since Sunday afternoon, the Furka Pass and Klaus are locked. Snow covered are the Gotthard and the Nufenenpass. The entrance to the San Bernardino tunnel is more difficult.

The Institute for Snow and Avalanche Research (SLF) in Davos warns climbers, hunters and hikers in the face of the snowfall to be cautious in steep terrain. Below 3000 meters the snow could slide off on the warm ground. Climbers could also bring fresh-driven snow fields to slip.

The accumulation on this car gives a good estimate of depth at this location.

Note: There have been no Al Gore sightings in the region recently…

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86 thoughts on “Early Winter in Switzerland

  1. And not just in Switzerland …

    It’s September 17th, 2011 and there’s already snow on Whistler Blackcomb. It snowed about 6cm at the top of the Whistler Gondola and even more on the peak. I must say we never really had a summer in Whistler, with copious amounts of rain, cold temperatures and grey days many locals were stuck waiting for summer… and it never came. Now we’re into September and it’s already snowing! WHAT?

    Source

  2. What is the surprise? All that mising Arctic ice has to go somewhere.

    The news from Breckenridge was snow (at least temporarily) down to timberline on Sept 17. As for Whistler-Blackcomb… if this year it doesn’t RAIN in December, that will be a Climate Change for the recordbooks.

  3. Oceans are colder. Arctic ice being less than “normal” allows more heat to radiate out to space from the open water, thus cooling the oceans. It’s gonna be a long, cold winter. Bundle up.

    Meanwhile, CO2 continues to rise. Slowly, but it’s rising.

  4. Not another year of measuring global warming in feet and inches. After 2 feet I’ll fire up my snowmobile.

  5. CO2 in aquariums if I remember rightly, slows in colder water or is it the opposite. Been 20 years
    at least possibly 30 since I kept marine, cold and tropical aquariums. I know in a pond a friend of mine in Canada lost all her big Koi carp in one night. The ice formed was 8 inches deep, and off
    cause you have to break it to allow the fish to breath and CO2 to escape.

    Maybe you’ll all get a white Christmas this year again, especially in UK? But about 40 years ago
    we had snow all up the Eastern Coast to the Queensland border. I remember writing to my
    sister in law in UK saying we had experienced snow in Australia before she did. That was in November our late Spring here.

  6. My theory is that the EU and the Global Warming Scam will collapse together. If the Euro goes first, probably because of Greece, then the EU elites will be so hated that Europeans won’t listen to their rubbish about Global Warming. Talking about using more debt to build windmills will just make people angry. When the Germans find out how much Merkel has committed them with guarantees, they won’t be listening to talk of spending on windmills. Or the scam could end first. This winter is likely to be very cold in Europe. Germany has shut down nuclear power stations. Britain relies on power from France as Britain has no spare capacity for cold weather. France’s nuclear power stations can’t supply France, Britain, Spain and Germany during a freeze. If there are extensive brownouts and blackouts this winter, no-one will be in a mood to listen to the EU elites. Talk of giving money to the PIGS while factories are shut and people freeze due to power outages will make people angry.

    Either way, this northern winter should be the end of the Euro and the Global Warming Scam. The scary bit is what the EU elites will do to hang onto power. Will they try a fascist power grab, silencing all criticism, as part of an emergency?

  7. I’m not a weatherman, or meteorologist, but I can look at a satellite video clip and see a monster cold front headed our way.

    Has anyone seen this? It’s headed for the West Coast of the USA.

    http://www.goes.noaa.gov/GSSLOOPS/wcwv.html

    REPLY: There’s a high pressure ridge in front of it, so the gate into CA isn’t open, it will mostly go up and over. About all we’ll get is some high clouds and cooler temps later in the week.

    – Anthony

  8. Roger Sowell says:
    September 19, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    Oceans are colder. Arctic ice being less than “normal” allows more heat to radiate out to space from the open water, thus cooling the oceans. It’s gonna be a long, cold winter. Bundle up.
    ************
    So CO2 causes warming which causes cooling ?
    What doesn’t CO2 do? It is surely a wonder gas.

    When we had war winters in the early 2000’s we were told that snow would be a thing of the past. Now we are told CO2 causes cooling.

    What doesn’t it cause ?

    Leprosy ? No that has been covered already.

    Whatever happens has been predicted !
    Is this some kind of joke ?

    By predicting everything CAGW predicts nothing.

  9. REPLY: There’s a high pressure ridge in front of it, so the gate into CA isn’t open, it will mostly go up and over. About all we’ll get is some high clouds and cooler temps later in the week.

    Yes, it’s still California. It’s either high & dry, or dumping cats & dogs, with a smattering of in-between.

  10. Come on. This is an extreme weather event, predicted by AGW and therefore furthwr proof it is happening.

    And therefore, because the extreme weather event is happening sooner, its worse than we thought.

    QED

  11. The North European climate may be heading toward ‘9 months of winter and 3 months of bad sledding’
    — originally said of Russia

  12. Here in Colorado this past weekend the higher peaks got a covering of snow. Went on a dual sport ride the weekend before this last one and did Schofield Pass (10,707 elev.) near Crested Butte. Continued east from the pass toward Gothic and found the road blocked at Emerald Lake by last years snow pack. Snow blockage was about 100 yards long. I’m now interested in going back next summer to see if it is gone or still there. I’m betting right now that it will still be there and perhaps bigger than this year.

  13. @ NetDr,

    I’m simply trying to emphasize what many seem to have overlooked in the intense interest in, and hysteria over, the shrinking Arctic ice cap. Ice acts as an insulator, keeping the water below it from freezing and from radiating heat to space. Less polar ice extent indicates there is more open water that loses heat to space, thus cooling the planet’s oceans. Cooler, or cooling, oceans is indeed the situation right now as shown by Bob Tisdale’s work and reported here on WUWT.

    The almost-record low for Arctic ice extent in 2011 is allowing huge amounts of heat to radiate into space, thus cooling the oceans more than “normal.” The oceans will eventually cool down, the Arctic ice will begin to grow again, and the system self-corrects via negative feedback.

    If CO2 traps any heat at all, a concept of which I am not at all convinced, it is so tiny as to be negligible. To me, it is patently obvious that the Northern Hemisphere is in for very cold and very bad winters because the ice extent is low, the oceans are cooler, and temperatures are dropping. California, with temperatures largely a function of the Pacific Ocean temperature, has been cooler than the long-term average for about two years now. Apparently, CO2 over California just is lazy or otherwise can’t be bothered to go to work. Perhaps the CO2 is calling in sick and is off riding the waves, “dude.” (nothing personal meant there, just that California CO2 is so, well, Californian.)

    With the sunspots late in arriving, and fewer in number compared to the last few solar cycles, we can expect the cloud cover to increase and thus the oceans to cool more than “normal.”

    As I said earlier, bundle up.

  14. How did the poster of this story reach his conclusions? The 1st link, a Beniston paper, makes almost no predictions; it analyses 50 years of snowfall data and makes vague statements about snow cover at various elevations if there happens to be warming and persistents highs in the early season combined with recurrence in mid-winter would “likely” cause reduced snow cover.
    The second link, from 2007, predicts a 75% reduction in glacier coverage within 45 YEARS! I can’t vouch for the accuracy of that prediction but one season’s freak snowstorm isn’t likely to derail an event so far in the future.
    The 3rd link notes the impact of 3 snow-deficient winters on number of tourists, but also indicates that the higher altitude ski areas benefited from poor coverage lower down. It also states that 85% of Swiss ski areas are snow-reliable and that would drop to 63% if 2degC of additional warming is reached. We’re still a ways off from that much warming and while the paper forecasts a severe drop in ski areas, there still be plenty of places to go, albeit somewhat higher up.
    Lastly, here’s a link that talks about the $1 sale of the low-altitude resort – if you read it, you’ll see it’s a bit more complex than just “Global Warming destroys Swiss skiing”

    http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=732444#732444

  15. And here I’ve got the AC on here in the Sacramento Valley. :)

    My son is visiting from Norway on Wednesday…I fear he will want to take the sun back with him, as it’s already cooling and rainy there in Oslo.

  16. This complies with GW predictions: as gulfstream ceases to exist, winters in Europe become colder. This is a major reason why Europeans embraced GW religion — who likes cold weather?

  17. What? The data are not conforming to the models? The data obviously need to be adjusted in accordance with the norms of post-normal (climate) science.
    More failed predictions!

  18. gyptis444 says:
    September 19, 2011 at 8:15 pm
    More failed predictions!

    The predictions are 110% correct, it is the observations that are at fault.

  19. I still think it is going to be a late, wet Spring in Northern California. Might be skiing again on July 4th in Tahoe.

  20. Joe Bastardi said this winter won’t be quite as bad and with my travel experience over the years, my thinkolator is in agreement with that. The La Niña story could take another turn soon.

  21. And yet here in Melbourne yesterday it was 29C. That’s 12C higher than the September average. We should be seeing that sort of temp in December, not now.

  22. That was one funny translation! Auto-translate? Ha! For example, “Climbers could also bring fresh-driven snow fields to slip.” Watch out for those sneaky climbers!

  23. Yes, Tegiri @ 8.10 pm. ice ages or even mini ice ages follow warmer periods. The
    arctic sea ice does melt normally in varying degrees of severity seasonally. The fresh water that enters the Northern Hemisphere (from melting sea ice and rain too flowing into the sea etc) drives the warmer gulf stream sea water down and diverts the gulf stream. Some say the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico also affected the Gulf Stream. Even some have suggested putting giant fans under the sea (?) to keep the gulf stream flowing. (WOT! I said?). We are overdue for another mini or full blown glacial period, if we take palaeoclimatological cyclical records into account.
    Even Carl Sagan warned about bringing on a glacial period by warming the climate artificially
    from AGW would happen. He wasn’t strictly right but correct to mention glacial periods follow a warming cycle. In someways natural global warming happens, has happened in the past and there is ‘b’ all we can do to stop it, or even try to. But we will have to adapt. The writer
    is correct, winters will become longer and this will effect growing periods for agriculture. Other
    than the mini ice age that went from the 14th Century until about 1850, humans haven’t experienced one yet in order to adapt successfully. Can you imagine living in countries that have the midnight sun?

    By the way, the Southern Hemisphere is not effected as much. No glaciers in Australia other than on the Alps and in Tasmania during the last full glacial period. However, tree lines lowered and
    rainforests (tropical) were not abundant. Because precipitation patterns alter, as evaporation
    lessens. Seismic activity will increase but as far as I know some of the Monsoon regions will dry up. Sea levels will eventually (after many thousands of years) be lower than today.

    To me warmists have not accepted that Earth is really an ice planet, always has been and some parts of the world have only become inhabitable in the last 10,000 years because of glacial formations. No animals to hunt. Or fish to fry. (sea was too far away from land).

  24. Hoser at 10.06 pm. LOL. I think they meant could cause avalanches? It’s like some of Japanese
    or Chinese translations on noodle packets. ‘Noodles burn hands when boiling water is added’.

  25. I have a feeling that the concern about ‘Global Warming’ is more related to a usually beneficial, instinctive compulsion for cleanliness more than anything else. Many may look at all these industrial smokestacks releasing huge quantities of dirty looking vapor (probably mostly H2O) into the atmosphere and have an instinctive subliminal feeling that there must be something very wrong about that. Concern about ‘Global Warming’ may only be a rationalization for their unfounded instinctive fear of unclean air. This may apply to the lay public and otherwise rational scientists as well.

  26. For much of northern Europe, this has been the Year Without a Summer.

    Nothing but rain, cloud and cold northerly winds. The low pressures that normally spiral above Scotland in the summer have been running through the English channel instead, and giving us terrible weather.

    But if the winter is true to this form, then the pressure systems will be more south in the winter too. This places the low pressures in the Mediterranean, and give northern Europe fine, cold anticycloninc weather. This is what happened in 2009 and 2010, when we had our cold winters.

    .

  27. For much of northern Europe, this has been the Year Without a Summer.

    Nothing but rain, cloud and cold northerly winds. The low pressures that normally spiral above Scotland in the summer have been running through the English channel instead, and giving us terrible weather.

    But if the winter is true to this form, then the pressure systems will be more south in the winter too. This places the low pressures in the Mediterranean, and give northern Europe fine, cold anticycloninc weather. This is what happened in 2009 and 2010, when we had our cold winters.
    .

  28. I think Spector at 10.18 pm, that they also have become hot house flowers, living in artificially cooled interiors and when they go out it is ‘phew’. Same with central heating. In the olde days in London, coal fires or wood fires were the norm. You rugged up in winter, and had only hot water bottles to keep you warm. Jack frost patterns on the interior of the windows. Icicles hanging off the eaves and inside the house on the taps. Frozen pipes. People dieing from the cold or getting stuck in snow drifts, particularly in Scotland. Once people come out of their comfort zone, they think something is wrong. It’s all to do with adaptation. My son and I live in a cold area of
    NSW, and we don’t heat the house, other than if we have visitors and an two bar electric fire is put
    on. I have an electric blanket. Unfortunately I lost some of my indoor plants this year mainly tropical ones. 10C inside was most probably too cold even for them.

  29. I believe the infamous reference to “snow becoming a thing of the past” was made by a British climate scientist (about the UK).

    But yes, eyeballing from my window, the snowline is at about 1200 m.

    Guys, this IS just weather (not newsworthy wrt climate). If we get an extended period of cold weather, that would be newsworthy. And if it snows heavily over the next 3 mo.,, that would be good for tourism (& bad for solar power).

    Kurt in Switzerland

  30. Tegiri Nenashi says:
    This complies with GW predictions: as gulfstream ceases to exist, winters in Europe become colder. This is a major reason why Europeans embraced GW religion — who likes cold weather?

    Thing is, the GW religion espouses draconian measures intended to lower the temperature. Sounds like they like cold weather to me. After all, they were bewailing no more snow! Ski resorts will have to close! Warmth is bad—ignoring the fact that mortality rates from cold weather are far higher than from high temperatures.

  31. @ D Marshall.

    Here here. I am glad that I reread the comments before posting.

    Of the four references provided only the Huffington Post link supports the paraphrasing in this post. And no serious person can take the Huffington Post seriously. That E! For politics.

    Further, doesn’t anyone else find it ironic that WUWT taunts the warmists for their inability to distinguish climate from weather by confusing climate and weather?

  32. Katherine. But so far Europe’s emissions have not got lower, possibly volcanoes have some influence too. Usually when it is warmer than norm, rain follows, and in Australia we always need
    rain, it just draining it away that has become a problem.

  33. @DGH Thank you. I was wondering if anyone else would note that. And I’m glad Kurt in Switzerland chimed in as well as I have no direct experience with Swiss weather.

  34. DGH says:
    September 19, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    Further, doesn’t anyone else find it ironic that WUWT taunts the warmists for their inability to distinguish climate from weather by confusing climate and weather?
    ======
    You’ve missed the subtle irony. When they get confused about weather/climate we laugh at them. When we do it (like early snow or short term sea level drops), we do it as a form of humor. We get to laugh either way and nothing is funnier than a p*ssed off would be saviour of the world that doesn’t recognize that ‘irony’ is the missing subatomic force.

  35. D Marshall is absolutely correct.The Beniston paper of your first link does not make the claim [or cite any other] that “snowfall would soon be a thing of the past in the Swiss Alps”. It definitely says that snowfall will likely be less at altitudes below 2000m,and the snow season shorter,so it does not support your second assertion that “there CERTAINLY would not be any snowfall at lower altitudes,or even before the start of autumn”. How did you arrive at your reading of the paper,mike?

  36. Dale says: September 19, 2011 at 9:43 pm “And yet here in Melbourne yesterday it was 29C. That’s 12C higher than the September average. We should be seeing that sort of temp in December, not now.”
    Wow, sounds like what happened in the southwest United States recently. Despite what some ‘frogs in a well’ have said, Oklahoma and Texas scorched. It was worse than I have ever witnessed. As in with my own eyes…
    OK, kiddos, this is a lot like in the 1930’s when volcanoes were going off all over the place. In the southern hemisphere Puyehue-Cordón Caulle in Chile/Argentina blew hard and high, beginning in June. Only just now has it subsided. Flights resuming after three months. I have been expecting to hear from the SH what Dale is saying because volcanic gasses and aerosols naturally perturb the weather.
    The high altitude plumes happen more numerous as solar ramp down nears the bottom. The temperature gradients sharpen and the winds and evaporation pick up. Dumping flooding rains and heavy snows. The volcanic activity subsides for a few months at solar cycle bottom and picks back up during ramp up. Subsides again as the solar cycle gets into full swing as it is now. If the volcanoes remain subdued, as they should overall, then weather should become more tranquil in a year.

  37. @Dale
    “And yet here in Melbourne yesterday it was 29C. That’s 12C higher than the September average. We should be seeing that sort of temp in December, not now.”

    Rubbish.

    This is typical spring weather. It’s the time of gales and storms and wild changes from northerly to southerly winds. We’re close to the “roaring forties”.

    Max today was 17.6C, .6C higher than the September average. Whoop-de-doo. Melbourne is, of course, a heat island. I wonder where the weather station is located?

    Mt Buller, a very low altitude ski resort, still has loads of snow. Wasn’t that going to disappear by now?

    Richard.

  38. Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get. It’s weather (and volcanoes, tsunamis and earthquakes, storms, hurricanes, floods, cyclones etc) that kill us. I know Australia is a large island continent with a dead center. But really more than 50 miles from the sea, precipitation lessens. And altitude also dictates this. Anyway, I love this debate, but taxing carbon will not alter either the climate or the weather. Cutting down domestic coal fire use in London, did help prevent
    dangerous smogs. But you know where I live on the Northern Tablelands of NSW, a town of approximately 20,000 with another on the country belt of say 2,000. My friend who lives lower down than me, will say ‘It’s belting down with rain here’ Well it is not where I live 2.5 kms away.

    We had a bad storm and a mere 1.5 km away damage was done to the Eastern side of the city
    (a mere 1.5 km from me) I wasn’t even aware there was a storm at the time. Although it did a good job of blowing away flowers from the local cemetery. But the track of the storm missed most parts of the town. A twister type storm cut a track that blew down heaps of trees not far away,
    luckily no stock or people were killed, but not a wif of this anywhere else. What about the storm that hit UK, knocking down over a million trees.

    So AGW ists can go on making up fairy tales, and not blame it on the weather as they see fit but
    on humans. True climate change is either seasonal based or of cause coming from an interglacial to a glacial period. Don’t throw your Ugg boots away.

  39. Cooling is not a welcome thing as the comfort and well-being index may soon be tied to the price of grain. Millions will suffer because of the wasted decades with trillions of dollars diverted to green cr$p.

  40. John Marshall says on September 20, 2011 at 2:37 am
    Even the UK Met. Office predict a colder than ‘normal’ winter.
    ===============================================

    Phew.
    Thank God for that!
    Now I don’t need to buy arctic survival clothes to see me through the coming winter.

    ;-)

  41. For blog poster (mikelorrey): please provide an answer for D Marshall, DGH and myself.
    Anthony: this is a diversion at best. Snow can (and does) fall any month of the year in Switzerland’s mountains, which is likely true for most temperate mountains at altitudes above 2000 m). Trying to draw climatic conclusions about weather events is childish.
    For anyone truly interested in snow research in Switzerland, please see the following link: http://www.slf.ch
    Select R&D, then Schnee, then Schnee und Klimawandel (sorry, only in German)
    Some summary statements are roughly translated here:
    • Annual snow cover varies greatly from year to year as well as region to region (within Switzerland).
    • Clear conclusions regarding climate and snow cover are thus difficult to make.
    • Winters in the 80s showed a tendency for increased snow levels.
    • Winters for the 90s showed snow levels at a minimum.
    • Winters for the 1st decade of the 21st century have shown a recovery, though levels are still lower than average.
    • The trend toward winters with weak snow coverage at altitudes below 1300 m is statistically significant.
    • Above 2000 m, there is no evidence of a climate-driven reduction in snow levels.
    • The reduction at altitudes below 1300 m is not due to reduced precipitation, but to increased winter temperatures.
    • An analysis of seasonal differences shows a weak trend toward poor snow coverage in early winter at medium altitudes and evidence of increases spring snow melt at high altitudes.

    Kurt in Switzerland

  42. Re: Bushbunny on September 20th, 2011, at 2:34 am (above)

    Bushbunny,

    Climate is what you had.

    Weather is what you got.

    Tree rings, clam shells and ice layers, when jacked into
    tailor made computer programs, are the modern equivalents
    of phrenology.

    Whatever you’ve been getting expect to get even more of it.

  43. Sure, that’s a different way of saying it. But spring is spring, summer is summer, autumn or fall is that and winter is winter. That’s climate. Weather is what happens during these seasonal periods
    and they can vary week to week, day to day. There are variations within this. Anyway good night folks, I have a presentation tomorrow, regarding organic cultivations and Alpacas the chosen animal for this exercise. Not that I have ever owned one. I like them though.

  44. “Global Warming alarmists have long claimed that snowfall would soon be a thing of the past in the Swiss Alps”

    What, from the following, led you to this conclusion?

    “Conclusions
    This paper has made a survey of snow statistics in the Swiss Alps over the last 50
    years for a limited number of representative sites, with an additional focus on 12
    climatological stations for the anomalously cold and warm 15-year period from
    1980–1994.
    The study has confirmed other findings that snow in the Alps is highly variable
    from year to year, but that there are some long-term cycles which appear to be
    governed by shifts in large-scale forcings. These are represented by the North
    Atlantic Oscillation index, whose influence extends to the Alps when the index
    is positive and high; the pressure signal from the NAO index is amplified in
    the Alpine region. Over the last 15 years, which saw a number of cold winters
    accompanied by significant amounts of snow, followed since the second half of
    the 1980s by some very mild winters with little snow, the dominant feature has
    been the variations of the regional-scale pressure field. The anomalously warm
    winters have resulted from the presence of very persistent high pressure episodes
    which have occured essentially during periods from late Fall to early Spring. The
    timing of the inception and subsequent persistence of high pressure episodes, and
    their frequency of occurence during a particular Winter will therefore determine
    the amount of snowfall and accumulation throughout the season. Persistent highs
    in late Fall and recurrence in Winter will lead to low accumulation in the crucial
    periods at the beginning of the season, and early melting because the snow-pack
    does not reach depths sufficient to ‘survive’ the first warm periods in early Spring.
    The study has shown that this is particularly true for low to medium elevation sites
    in the Alps; above the altitudinal range 1500–2000 m, the snowpack is much less
    sensitive to the shifts in large-scale forcings, because snow will likely accumulate
    [66]VARIATIONS OF SNOW DEPTH AND DURATION IN THE SWISS ALPS 299
    at these altitudes whenever there is precipitation, and even anomalous temperatures
    induced by high-pressure subsidence are unlikely to be sufficient to initiate melting.
    In the context of the issues related to climatic change forced by enhanced
    greenhouse-gas concentrations, the anomalously warm winters experienced in
    recent years can serve as a benchmark for the likely response of snow, and associated systems such as hydrology and glaciers, to a generally warmer world. The
    sensitivity of snow to large-scale forcings below about 2000 m is a clear indication
    that there will likely be less snow, and that the snow season will be shorter. This is in
    line with a number of other studies carried out by different groups and summarized
    by the IPCC Second Assessment Report on the impacts of climate change (IPCC,
    1995); however, the present study has provided more than speculative evidence
    about which levels will be most vulnerable to climate change. The conclusions presented here can provide guidance to future environmental and economic planning
    in the Alps, particularly for activities related to Winter tourism.

  45. Snow in the Alps in Summer is not unusual (neither in Fall).
    And the current snow will be gone by Friday with the 3rd day in a row with Tmax > 60°F.
    So what?!?

  46. There is a problem with all this. The global warming crowd do not live up at 1,200 meters. They live inside university offices where the only weather or climate they get is from reading simulation data on their computers. Someone needs to go drag them out of their cozy virtual reality simulator environs and get them to do real on the scene research, real analytical science, and real useful work! Until then, we are only arguing with doped up data dealers (DUDDs), and therefore this nonsense will continue on.

    That’s the problem with science today… to many DUDDs!

  47. FYI – from NWS Anchorage:

    THE ICE EDGE LIES FROM EAST OF 74.1N 120W TO 73.8N 125.3W TO 70N
    127.0W TO 70N 133W TO 70.8N 139.2W TO 72.0N 145.5W TO 74.5N 159.0W
    TO 74.0N 176.5W TO 72.4N 176.5E TO 70.1N 165E AND CONTINUES WEST. THE
    EDGE IS MAINLY 1 TO 6 TENTHS NEW…YOUNG AND OLD ICE.

    FORECAST THROUGH SATURDAY…ICE CONCENTRATION AND THICKNESS WILL
    INCREASE SOME AS AIR TEMPERATURES STAY RATHER SEASONABLE NORTHEAST
    WINDS FOR THE NEXT FIVE DAYS WILL ADVANCE THE ICE EDGE SOUTH AND
    SOUTHWEST UP TO 15 NM BY SATURDAY.

  48. Further, doesn’t anyone else find it ironic that WUWT taunts the warmists for their inability to distinguish climate from weather by confusing climate and weather?

    As someone else said, the joke has gone right over your head. After years of listening to AGW alarmists proclaim every heat-related anomalous weather event as a sign of global warming (Katrina, this is just the first of many – NOT!/this heat wave is evidence of global warming – NOT!) ad nauseum, while simultaneously dismissing any cold-related anomaly as “just weather”, those of us skeptically inclined couldn’t help noticing the double standard. So now we have a little fun with them and apply their “standard” to our interpretation of events. Any snowstorm is now climate, not weather, if we follow their lead. You just apparently missed the tongue firmly planted in cheek while we’re doing it. (Notice also we’re not the ones who keep having to change our expectations of what global warming will “cause” when the weather changes from day to day and year to year. It causes warm, no it causes cold, it causes less snow, no it causes more snow. Isn’t it obvious?)

  49. D Marshall says:

    I can’t vouch for the accuracy of that prediction but one season’s freak snowstorm isn’t likely to derail an event so far in the future.

    Nothing can disprove a prediction so far in the future. That’s the whole point. The prediction is vague and untestable, and many people alive today, including those making the prediction, won’t live to see how it turns out. But they want us to change policies now and make cuts now anyway.

    That said, some of the bolder predictions made by some of the bolde climate prophets about 10, that snow will be unheard of soon etc., are now refuted. Somehow that didn’t make them think again.

  50. Snow in the Alps in mid-summer is not unusual, so this Swiss snowfall certainly isn’t. This year there was snow on the Col du Galibier a couple of days before the Tour de France passed through.

  51. Tegiri Nenashi says

    This complies with GW predictions: as gulfstream ceases to exist, winters in Europe become colder.

    The gulf stream is alive and well.

    All that light blue water drifting round Scotland and Norway, further north than anywhere else on earth ..

  52. So this was an attempt at humor by mikelorrey? I clearly missed the joke, much as I idid over James Taylor’s tongue-in-cheek Forbes column about Spencer’s humorous paper in a joke journal

    [REPLY: Do you have anything to contribute here or is your repetoire limited to drive-by sneers? REP, mod]

  53. To the detractors: Firstly, I forgot to include the gratuitous “from the weather is not climate department” at the beginning, to make sure those incapable of comprehending irony and sarcasm got the hint. Secondly, as others have mentioned, we are so used to seeing alarmists spaz about hot weather and tropical storms being signs of AGW, as bad as the most chiliastic mellenialist doomsayer, while simultaneously dismissing any cold weather as “just weather, not climate”. The double standard evident to all sane and reasonable people has become a running joke much like the Gore Effect, which discredits climatology and climatologists as being not objective and skeptical scientists, but self interested agenda driven ideologues intent on manipulating science and the public for a political agenda. As for my links, it is not so much that the linked papers themselves actually state what is referred to them, but that the mainstream biased media has flogged these papers as science writers claimed they were “more proof of ‘scientific consensus'” about global warming.
    The fact is, that this snow was as low as 1200 meters, which is pretty low altitude in Switzerland, and it is still summer. This was not an autumn cold snap, but a significant snowfall of up to a half meter in urban locations (as seen by the covered cars) that SHOULD exhibit a significant urban heat island effect which would normally cause snowlines to be higher in altitude. If there was no UHI in the region, how low do you think the snow would have fallen?
    Granted, the ground is not frozen, so the snow will likely melt, but it will sap heat from the ground as it does, which will lead to early frosts and crop damage at even lower altitudes before harvest time, but the ground will freeze sooner now, and the next snowfall will remain on the ground unless there are significant fall rains after that. Who knows? This is the beginning of the winter season weather wise, neither I nor you can predict what will happen next with significant accuracy, but lets all sit back and watch, and we can criticize each other for the others mistakes later this winter eh?

  54. @REP, mod Please read further up the thread to see what I’ve contributed. Also, kindly enlighten me as to your process in determining what constitutes a “drive-by sneer” as I believe I can helpfully point out several you may have overlooked in many other threads.

  55. D Marshall

    Your first comments at the start of the thread were much more useful than your post that REP commented on. Having said that I wouldn’t classify your latter post as a drive by sneer but you will appreciate there ARE a lot of those here and the mods must find it difficult to differentiate between them sometimes. Its a thankless job trying to keep some sort of order and civility
    .
    tonyb

  56. @tonyb I do appreciate that, but I also expect a “moderator” to be evenhanded. There’s also more than a touch of irony in having my post pounced on after the other posts stating that some of us didn’t get the joke.
    Since I’m not a mind-reader, I’ll simply have to speculate as to whether a barb directed at the favorite whipping-boys would have merited the same response as a jab at some sacred cows.

  57. I must admit to feeling a certain amusement. Do the German speaking Swiss have a word for Schadenfreude ?

  58. “I must admit to feeling a certain amusement. Do the German speaking Swiss have a word for Schadenfreude ?”

    :-) Well, yes…Schadenfreude. It’s a German word to begin with.

  59. “As for my links, it is not so much that the linked papers themselves actually state what is referred to them, but that the mainstream biased media has flogged these papers as science writers claimed they were “more proof of ‘scientific consensus’” about global warming.

    So you misrepresented the science because you’re unhappy that the sections of the media report the fact that the vast majority of the published literature supports the AGW theory. What kind of logic is that?

  60. Ed Mertin says:
    September 19, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    Joe Bastardi said this winter won’t be quite as bad and with my travel experience over the years, my thinkolator is in agreement with that. The La Niña story could take another turn soon.
    ========
    Hi Ed,
    As I remember Joe’s last forecast back in Feb.-March, he predicted we would roll back into a La Nina this year (which we have) and that this and possibly the next several winters would be worse than the one we got last year.

    It was quite a prediction.

  61. @ Richard,

    A post about a single day of cold weather, warrants a comment that on that day we had unseasonly high temps.

    Buller only has patchy snow left, with only Hotham and Falls Creek with any solid depth (10-20cm). Though that’s normal for the end of the snow season (this weekend, 25th I believe). Overall we’ve had a pretty average winter, which started great early, but went through pretty normal.

    I disagree with BOM’s prediction for summer though. They predict storms, extreme high temps and major bushfires for summer, but I think we’ll see another mild summer like the last one dominated by high rainfall, mild temps and no major bushfires. Thanks La Nina.

  62. Hoser says:
    September 19, 2011 at 10:06 pm

    That was one funny translation! Auto-translate? Ha! For example, “Climbers could also bring fresh-driven snow fields to slip.” Watch out for those sneaky climbers!

    It by Yoda translated was.

  63. Can we all stop using ‘altitude’ instead of ‘elevation’?
    When you’re in high mountains, your ‘altitude’ is still zero, because YOUR’E ON THE GROUND!
    (All pilots agree with me.)

  64. @Interstallar Bill I think you’re fighting an uphill battle on this one. 8^D The interchangeable use of altitude and elevation is probably as entrenched as that of power and energy among the general public

  65. To mikelorrey:
    Thank you for responding. So you agree, this IS just weather. Good. While I understand your glee (Schadenfreude?) at early snowfall, it is too early to declare this a return to heavy snowfall for the entire season. (Nobody is waxing their boards just yet). IMHO it would be helpful if skeptics did NOT fall into the trap of declaring weather is climate (this raises credibility).

    Oh, by the way, how did you determine that “1200 m is pretty low altitude in Switzerland” and what makes you think UHI determines isotherms (& snowlines)? The majority of the population in the Helvetic Confederation lives at below 500m. St. Moritz, where the photo was taken, is > 1700m.

    Like I said earlier, nobody said snow would be a thing of the past in Switzerland, that was a Brit (about Great Britain) and he was wrong.

    I think you were perhaps a bit hasty, a bit sloppy and slow to admit it.

    Kurt in Switzerland

  66. Kurt In switzerland

    I am sure you will agree that it is vital to monitor whether this early snow fall is indicative of a returm to colder winters at all levels in Switzerland.

    i will selflessly volunteer to come and stay in Switzerland during the winter season and move around the various resorts testing the snow with my skis and report back here next spring on my research. I am looking for generous funders-any takers?
    tonyb

  67. I live in northern Italy, the recent heavy snowfall and do not change the situation of this September, and in the Central-Mediterranean Europe will be the warmest since 1900
    sorry for my little english

  68. Mr. Lorrey.

    Firstly let me thank you for taking the time to create the post and putting together such a lengthy reply. I suspect that blogosphere wages are extremely low and that the greater portion of your compensation comes from our appreciation. Anthony, the mods, and all of the guest posters are greatly appreciated.

    And as you know, wIth the exception of a few folks from the radical other side, folks are generally civil around here. In that tradition, D Marshall, Kurt and my posts were polite and we certainly did not deserve this portion of your reply:

    “To the detractors: Firstly, I forgot to include the gratuitous “from the weather is not climate department” at the beginning, to make sure those incapable of comprehending irony and sarcasm got the hint.”

    The readers who failed to take the time to read the links you provided may have found the story ironic. Some of us who read the links however found your post to be inaccurate. It is fair to say that the irony was lost on us. Had the warmists actually written words consistent with your paraphrasing, maybe it would have been otherwise. But they didn’t.

    This blog frequently calls on the other side of the debate to correct the record when their claims aren’t synchronized with reality. See the ongoing discussion of the 15% melt in Greenland, for example.

    WUWT typically holds itself accountable to the same standard. I say rightly so.

  69. “Thank you for responding. So you agree, this IS just weather. Good.”

    And a hurricane is just a hurricane. You probably don’t realize how much some of us in the US were disgusted (and remain so) by the post-Katrina orgy of blame on AGW. Go back and read the doomsday scenarios that were being spouted at the time. By their reckoning, we should have had five more Katrinas by now. Instead, hurricane activity in the US was virtually unremarkable for the next five years. Global weirding decidely isn’t. We’re having weather like we have for millennia. Sometimes it snows in summer. Sometimes there’s a big hurricane in the Atlantic. Whoop-de-doo. None of it is proof of a theory of climate as it will be 50 years from now.

  70. Here you can see what the early Winter in “Switzerland” looks like:
    2012-09-26: Gonergrat: above 10,000 ft T: 45°F: Winter 2011/12 is already gone?!?

    http://tinyurl.com/5vbtyn3

    No, is wasn’t here yet. It was just a late summer snowfall.

  71. I sent in a report from ZAMG (an official Austrian weather agency) about September 2011 in the Austrian Alp region (and this will be valid for Switzerland as well) from which you can derive that September 2011 was the hottest September since instrumental measurements started at around 1850 in Austria. Only one tiny spell with early snow was disrupting the warm summerlike month!
    Of course on this website only the tiny spell (fluctuation in weather) is inflated to a huge climate item but the record breaking hot September is fully denied by the editor of this website, that is really cherry picking!

  72. Although they had more than 15” snow in Arosa on September 19, Meteoswiss states:
    “September 2011 was again one of the warmest in the MeteoSwiss data series since 1864. The
    positive temperature deviation from the 1961-90 mean temperature was to 2-3 degree…. Lugano had the warmest September on record”.

    Looks like “Early Winter in Switzerland”? No it was a prolonged summer with a snow inteermezzo.

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