Britain’s Wind Farm Scam Threatens Economic Recovery

Icon of Wind Turbines

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From Benny Peiser at The GWPF:

In a sane world, no one would dream of building power sources whose cost is 22 times greater than that of vastly more efficient competitors. But the Government feels compelled to do just this because it sees it as the only way to meet our commitment to the EU that within nine years Britain must generate nearly a third of its electricity from “renewable” sources, six times more than we do at present. Madness is far too polite a word. –-Christopher Booker, The Sunday Telegraph, 21 August 2011

They are among the nation’s wealthiest aristocrats, whose families have protected the British landscape for centuries. Until now that is. For increasing numbers of the nobility – among them dukes and even a cousin of the Queen – are being tempted by tens of millions of pounds offered by developers.  –Robert Mendick and Edward Malnick, The Sunday Telegraph, 21 August 2011

In the course of the 25-year lifespan of the wind farm at Fallago Rig it could net the Duke anywhere between £18 million and £62.5 million. One industry expert estimated Fallago Rig could generate about £875 million income over the next quarter of a century for the Duke and his commercial partner North British Windpower. –Robert Mendick and Edward Malnick, The Sunday Telegraph, 21 August 2011

The level of subsidy available to landowners to put up these turbines is out of all proportion to the public benefit derived from them and the temptation to ruin what is usually outstanding landscapes is overwhelming. It is a crime against the landscape. –Sir Simon Jenkins, National Trust, The Sunday Telegraph, 21 August 2011

Green taxes will make up more than a third of the price of electricity by the end of the decade, pushing up prices to new highs by 2020. Figures from Utilyx, the energy consultants and traders, forecast a 58pc rise in the cost of power by 2020, largely driven by the impending avalanche of green taxes due to come into force over the next 10 years. –Rowena Mason, The Sunday Telegraph, 21 August 2011

If Energy Secretary Chris Huhne has his way, Britons will be forced to subsidise renewable energy by approximately £100billion in the next 20 years. Electricity prices are likely to double as a direct result. The Government has to force energy companies to make electricity bills fully transparent so that the ever-increasing level of hidden green taxes are clearly listed for families and households. --Benny Peiser, Daily Mail, 8 July 2011

Energy firms have been asked to clearly explain how they calculate bills after concerns were raised that customers may have been overcharged after price rises. Totally Money, 20 August 2011

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126 Responses to Britain’s Wind Farm Scam Threatens Economic Recovery

  1. Turbine free says:

    I read all your posts and agree with almost all, well 99.9999999% of them. Just on a personal rant, although there are no wind turbines near me, just a few small ones in the countryside where deluded and duped urbanite exported ‘good life farmers’ think they are helping, I object to every single turbine I see and I sign any partition in any town that is opposing them.
    Apart from the utter waste of them, the lies about their usefulness, they look awful and blot every bit of land and piece of sky they pollute. Travelling along the coast from Holland into Denmark a few years back I was shocked to see these Wars of the World blots all along the coastal horizon and they looked terrible.
    Keep up the blog and I in return I will sign every partition I see against them and rile any climate change lackey into a rage by telling them the truth behind their lies.
    Glad I got that off my chest. Rant over.

  2. Eric Worrall says:

    Electricity in Britain is already ridiculously expensive – we pay around 20p (approx. USD 0.30) / killowatt hour day rate. Even fairly well off people are starting to feel the pain – my wife stays up until midnight before turning the washing machine on, to try to contain the cost. Poor people are increasingly having to choose between heating and eating.

    Obama will do the same to America, if he gets his way.

  3. Chris H says:

    Wind turbines are devices for turning the kinetic energy of wind into noise, audible for miles and more annoying than almost any other and destroying the sleep of those unfortunate enough to live near by, increased energy bills contributing to the poverty of the least well off, and a pitiful amount of electricity generally produced when it’s least needed.

    Scam and insanity describe the “industry” exactly.

  4. John Eggert says:

    Isn’t that the point?

  5. Vince Causey says:

    In a sane world, any government that channeled billions of pounds from ordinary working people into the pockets of wealthy aristocrats and landlords, would be met with howls of protest from the BBC, shrieks of outrage from the Polly Toynbee’s and Guardinista’s; labour party MP after MP would be rising in the house to attack the Tory led coalition. There would be no end to it.

    yet nothing greets this infamy but deafening silence.

  6. kellys_eye says:

    Far too little media attention is paid to the vested interest politicians have in these wind farm scams. Our Prime minister and the Deputy Prime Minister both have close relationships with family members who are benefitting enormously from the very policies these so-called leaders enforce. In any other country this would be considered fraud.

  7. Barry Sheridan says:

    The ruling elite of Britain are a ridiculous breed whose interests, when not centred on enriching themselves by looting the public purse, routinely revolve around foolish notions that can only damage the country further. Unfortunately it would seem that most of the former advanced nations are now governed by people equally stupid.

  8. Knuts says:

    Bishop hill has a post pointing out it is closer to 40 times the cost!

  9. Wil says:

    Personally speaking, I have NO sympathy for the Brits or their EU cousins. None what so ever. If the majority of those people re-elect those dead beats they elect election after election then they’re getting exactly what they paid for – green eco-nazis. So suck it up and pay your green taxes – you all elected them and you’re getting the justice you deserve!

  10. Snotrocket says:

    Eric Worrall says, August 22, 2011 at 12:02 pm:

    “Electricity in Britain is already ridiculously expensive…my wife stays up until midnight before turning the washing machine on, to try to contain the cost.”

    Eric, we were the same. We thought we had a reduced tariff in the wee small hours (something called ‘Economy 7′ – which we’d been on for 20 years). But then we took a hard look at our tariff. It seems that, over the years, the ‘Economy 7′ tariff had been gradually ramped up so that it was actually MORE expensive to run our washing machine etc overnight!! We asked British Gas (our dual fuel – I nearly said, duel fuel – supplier) to run our last year’s bills through a single tariff billing on their computer (we already had the twin tariff bills) so we could compare. (It’s a useful exercise that all users should go through. It cost nothing). It worked out much cheaper if we had a single tariff. The only way it worked for ‘Economy 7′ was if we were running an industrial amount of electricity overnight!

    We – the stupid customers – are being steadily ripped off on current (bad pun!) billing by our suppliers who have a very long term plan to screw those poor people who still think overnight tariiffs are saving them money. We’re being had!

  11. Bruce Rogers says:

    So how well do these things work when coated in snow and freezing rain?

  12. genomega1 says:

    In the US wind farms kill over 1,000 birds everyday, many of them endangered. Just imagine if an oil company were doing this.

  13. Tom E. says:

    Just think, if all the money thrown into wind and solar was put into Thorium or other advanced Nuclear technologies, we (Western Europe and North America) could already be close to getting many new and safe nuclear power plants up and running, and start planing on moth balling the older (slightly) less safer plants. Just like China and India.

    And we could also be dreaming of being able to mothball some of the older coal plants in a decade or so.

    eck, nah, why would we want to do that. Killing thousands of birds and bats and destroying people lives and property values is much more useful.

  14. JEM says:

    As we all know – the GE’s, Enrons, Duke Energy, Pickens types are the one pushing for green in the US. Better to line your pockets with guarenteed income streams. The rich get a fair amount of blame ill deserved; but on this point some of them are very guilty.

  15. CheshireRed says:

    At what point does conduct by Britain’s governing classes that is so obviously detrimental to the British national interest consistute a chargeable offence? Right across parliament our MP’s are culpable. Someone somewhere could do us all a big fat green favour by ‘re-educating’ these people about the error of their ways.

    It may have to be a painful lesson.

  16. mikemUK says:

    On a brighter note, I’ve just read today’s piece on the “Tory Aardvark” blog.

    It seems that the MOD are blocking all new wind farm applications within 50km of Eskdalemuir ie. nw England/sw Scotland, on the grounds of “seismic noise” interfering with their seismological station there.

    I couldn’t find his ‘source’ to quote here, but if true it’s good to see a government department on our side for whatever reason.

  17. RockyRoad says:

    Bruce Rogers says:
    August 22, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    So how well do these things work when coated in snow and freezing rain?

    Or a (stagnant air) high pressure during the middle of the winter? Generally when they’re needed the most, they’re completely useless.

    JEM says:
    August 22, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    As we all know – the GE’s, Enrons, Duke Energy, Pickens types are the one pushing for green in the US. Better to line your pockets with guarenteed income streams. The rich get a fair amount of blame ill deserved; but on this point some of them are very guilty.

    Actually, Pickens has backed way off the green energy meme using wind turbins. He got smart–finally.

  18. tarpon says:

    Nothing sane about our Hugo Chavez …

    You can refine gasoline and diesel from coal for about $30 a barrel oil equivalent. The USA has about 30% of the world’s known coal reserves … time we stopped fencing them off for wild mustang farms. It’s called “Fischer-Tropsche” the cost estimate was done by Univ of Texas, built a pilot refinery, for a Canadian oil sands company in 2009.

    Why would the country with the largest fossil fuel reserves, according to our very own EIA, buy conflict oil from the Arabs. Stupid world isn’t it.

  19. Mooloo says:

    Travelling along the coast from Holland into Denmark a few years back I was shocked to see these Wars of the World blots all along the coastal horizon and they looked terrible.

    Those silly Dutch building windmills! Of course for a long time the Netherlands was actually known for windmills, and they were considered pretty. I bet in the Middle Ages some Luddites whined about how ugly they were too (they used to be everywhere, much more common than the modern ones).

    I don’t get the aesthetic argument against them. They are far less ugly than the pylons that carry the electricity, and the nuclear stations that will eventually replace them.

    The issue is really that they should not be built if they cannot produce cost effective power in their own right. Subsidising power is an enormous drag on the economy, and would not be tolerated in the absence of a political motive.

  20. John Silver says:

    “In a sane world, no one would dream of building power sources whose cost is 22 times greater than that of vastly more efficient competitors. ”

    The good Dr North comments:

    “Actually, Booker is “wrong” on this, as he has constrained his calculations to gas and wind equipment lasting the same time – a necessary approximation given the space limitations. It is even more entertaining when we calculated on a gas plant lasting at least twice as long as a wind farm. On that basis, offshore wind costs a staggering forty times more than gas to build.”

    http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2011/08/madness-is-far-too-polite-word.html

  21. Cassandra King says:

    Blatant fraud, in your face looting of public monies by an ever expanding elite who have no fear of justice, no conception of morality and probity. Corruption on a scale that would make a 3rd world despot blush with envy. The industrial scale planned theft of public monies by those entrusted with its safe keeping and sensible usage. The tragedy of seeing our ancient parliament failing to ask questions, our head of state failing to fulfil her duties as the ultimate guarantor of our nation. Life for ordinary people is fast becoming intolerable yet what choice is there when all three major parties have identical policies, have more in common with each other than with those who elected them and are determined to pursue a common narrative that if openly admitted would be abhorrent to the vast majority of the British people.

    This is modern Great Britain today, they say the fish rots from the head and that just about sums up the rapid decline of the UK. The MSM in the UK is by and large complicit, the BBC is actively suppressing the truth about the wind farm subsidy fraud for reasons that include having a direct stake via their pension funds being heavily invested in eco green money laundering and profiteering. It seems our leaders have succumbed to a kind of mob madness, a rampant greed grips them and they steal from those least able to afford it to feed that greed.

    Our elected representatives hiding the truth, hiding the rampant fraud of their predecessors, instigating fake and rigged inquiries manned by bought off regime stooges. Our elected representatives will not listen to reason, they have seemingly forgotten who they are supposed to serve, lost in an orgy of mindless unthinking looting of the public purse in the belief there will not be a reckoning. The people of the UK are getting angrier by the week, pushed and prodded and provoked by the political classes and constantly lectured and bullied by a hypocritical political elite. We in the UK are living in a transitional phase between a degenerate decaying democracy and a police state. What is happening in the UK could happen in the US.

  22. tallbloke says:

    Wil says:
    August 22, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Personally speaking, I have NO sympathy for the Brits or their EU cousins. None what so ever. If the majority of those people re-elect those dead beats they elect election after election then they’re getting exactly what they paid for

    Problem is Wil, all the political parties subscribe to the green agenda. So it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

    My preferred solution is to throw the useless lying thieving f—ers out of the windows of Parliament into the river Thames and form a national salvation committee.

  23. Jay Davis says:

    I agree with Wil, the Brits are getting exactly what they deserve. Here in the U.S. we are having the same problem with the politicians, but so far we’ve been successful in holding off Congress. Now we need to change the occupant in the White House so we can rein in the EPA.

  24. John Silver says:

    These things need to replace their gearboxes every 5-7 years. Which, of course, is the most expensive part.

  25. Laurie Bowen says:

    Not making any excuses for anyone . . . but, I happen to believe wind energy has it place.

    For example, where there are no rivers for hydroelectric, where there is no easy cheap access to the grid, like in isolated low populated areas, where there may be wind and not much else . . . for example . . . . In the fields and plains weather public or private that would feed a watering hole for whoever, or whatever happens to be wandering buy . . . . for feeding Oasis’s’s’s in desert conditions . . . or just plain a one light settlement that is in the middle of “nowhere”!

    Isn’t this why engineers are also trained in cost accounting, payback rates, cost/benefit analysis?

    The way I see it, all sources of energy have their place.

  26. mfosdb says:

    Eco hypocrite-in-chief, Prince Charles, is a strong supporter of siting windfarms around Britain’s coast, no doubt because the Royal Family are due to receive, by 2020, an income of nearly £40,000,000 a year from these monstrous birdy killers.
    This will take their income from the Crown Estate, which owns Britain’s territorial seabed, to nearly £70,000,000 a year. In this duplicitous manner, British taxpayers will be subsidising the Monarchy in the style which Prince Charles believes has been ordained.
    Did someone say Bull***t…?
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1323228/Queens-38m-year-offshore-windfarm-windfall–owns-seabed.html

  27. Smokey says:

    Wil & Jay Davis,

    That’s a little harsh. The problem is that politicians and factions have learned to game the system there, and they’re doing the same thing here. In principle it’s not much different than the Team’s gaming of the peer review/journal system. The result is one-sided groupthink.

    And I’m not one of those who say that we get the government we deserve. I certainly don’t deserve the corrupt government I have to put up with. Every time I turn around some gov’t jamoke is trying to put his sticky fingers deeper in my pockets. Obama stated that electricity rates will necessarily skyrocket, and they are. None of us deserves that kind of government.

    I’m inclined to favor Tallbloke’s remedy.

  28. vboring says:

    The truly unfortunate things is that the UK has cold snaps every once in a while where the whole country is under snow, nationwide temperatures are unusually low, and no wind blows. Sometimes these systems last for a week. If the electric system operator is counting on any portion of the wind generation as firm generation, there will be a shortage of electricity – meaning blackouts or brownouts. Either way, it will kill people. Most heaters don’t work when the electricity is off.

  29. The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:

    Usually, I’d agree with all this, BUT Britain has to be self-sufficient in electricity generation. We need security of supply. Don’t get me wrong, I know full well wind generation is a joke, as I am a heating consultant. We walk a tightrope of oil supplies from dodgy nations and gas from Russia. And we all know that almost anything can happen in Russia! However we generate electricity, it has to come from within our own shores as soon as possible. People cannot seem to grasp this. We do have coal reserves in untapped mines (because Thatcher closed them down as it was more economic to import it – but actually it wasn’t when all economic factors were taken into account).

    To the Brit above whose wife stays up to plug stuff in: No, electric isn’t 20p/kWh, it’s 10p. I know because that’s what I pay. You need to shop around.

  30. Andrew30 says:

    Bruce Rogers says: August 22, 2011 at 12:54 pm
    [So how well do these things work when coated in snow and freezing rain?]

    We expect them to be as stable and a safe as an aircraft with its wings unevenly iced over.
    We expect that when the ice slips from one of the three wings the device will not disintegtate immediatly and that the ice on the remaning two wings will be cleared by the rotational out of balance vibration/shudder/grinding before any seriour harm is done to the device.
    We expect that snow will be a thing of the past.
    We expect that the tooth fairy will be able to avoid the blades.

    So it is OK.

  31. alexjc38 says:

    Here’s a comment made by economist Dieter Helm of Oxford University, talking to the BBC last week. He’s not an AGW sceptic, but is sceptical about the economic viability of electricity generation from offshore wind in the UK (apologies to those who have already read this in my comments on other blogs, but I think it’s worth repeating):

    “Well, if you look at the costs of offshore wind, and indeed if you look practically at what is involved in building an offshore wind farm, it’s inherently complicated, it’s in a difficult environment, and it’s unsurprising that it is really, almost staggeringly, expensive. I mean, if you want a kind of, sort of ballpark order-of-magnitude of cost, here, offshore wind is one of the very few things that makes nuclear power look cheap – and it certainly isn’t cheap, nuclear power. And the only thing that makes offshore wind look a cheap way of reducing emissions is the kind of stuff being stuck on people’s roofs – solar panels and so on. So what we’re doing is choosing, effectively, the most expensive way of reducing emissions first. And we’re doing it by an enormous commitment to this one technology. And the sorts of sums involved are of the order of a £100 billion, to be spent by 2020. That’s just for the wind farms. Then you’ve got to put the transmission in place, all the systems, all the backup. That’s probably another £30, £40 billion on top, at least. So we want £150 billion to build these wind farms in less than ten years. You can work that out as billions per annum. And then, ultimately, you have to ask yourself: and who’s going to pay? And you might like people to pay. You might like customers to pay, you might like industry to pay. But they actually have to be able to do it. And given the extent of fuel poverty, and given the state of our economy, I doubt it can, in fact, be afforded.”

  32. Stephen Wilde says:

    I was amused to find that all this had been predicted some 150 years ago by a chap called de Tocqueville.

    He suggested that representative democracy could never work in the long term because in due course politicians would find that they could bribe the voters with their own money.

    And so it is.

  33. Peter Miller says:

    Those whom the Gods wish to destroy, they first make mad – this is just another reason why any young professional should emigrate from the UK. That’s what I have been advising my kids.

    I guess it is just the final shudders of a dying empire.

    The so-called political elite in the UK refuse to realise their greenie whims will destroy the country’s industrial base and beggar the rest of us.

    Perhaps it’s time for the US to colonise its former colonial master, but then again you guys still have the EPA and so you are probably doomed to follow our lead.

  34. john says:

    Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein to Face Climate Change Risk Disclosure

    http://www.nationalcenter.org/PR-Goldman_Sachs_050611.html

    “Goldman Sachs has failed to disclose the significant risks associated with its climate change business strategy. With approximately $3 billion of investments in renewable energy, shareholders have a right to know that changes in the political and scientific landscape can have a significant impact on those investments,” said Tom Borelli.

    “Shareholders should be advised that the profit potential of renewable energy is dependent on government action. Since renewable energy can’t compete head-to-head with fossil fuels, the use of wind turbines and solar panels is reliant on government subsidies and mandates. Accordingly, future budget cuts to address our massive government debt could negatively impact the use of renewable energy,” said Tom Borelli. Goldman Sachs petitioned the SEC to permit it to reject consideration of the proposal, but the SEC ruled in favor of the National Center for Public Policy Research.

    NOTE: Lloyd Blankfein has retained a very high powered lawyer. Could a shareholder issue like above be why?

    http://dailybail.com/home/lloyd-blankfein-hires-high-profile-defense-attorney.html

  35. SandyInDerby says:

    Mooloo says:
    August 22, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    I don’t get the aesthetic argument against them. They are far less ugly than the pylons that carry the electricity, and the nuclear stations that will eventually replace them.

    Unfortunately, it maybe different where you are, in the UK the windfarms are built a long way away from the transmission lines. As the power doesn’t get from one to the other by magic additional transmission is also required. Pylons are the cheapest method. UK pylons are galvanised and not painted bright shining white, nor do they rotate at any time night or night summer or winter. The aesthetic argument is totally valid, spoil heaps from mining are regarded as an eyesore in my opinion so are useless wind mills. Wind mills are a medeveal technology which became obsolete in the 19th century, it is still obsolete in the 21st century, only politicians think otherwise.

  36. tallbloke says:
    August 22, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Problem is Wil, all the political parties subscribe to the green agenda. So it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

    My preferred solution is to throw the useless lying thieving f—ers out of the windows of Parliament into the river Thames and form a national salvation committee.

    Amen. As the saying goes: the only man ever to enter Parliament with honest intentions was Guy Fawkes.

    The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:
    August 22, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    To the Brit above whose wife stays up to plug stuff in: No, electric isn’t 20p/kWh, it’s 10p. I know because that’s what I pay. You need to shop around.

    Care to give a hint to those of us who are paying more? There are so many electricity suppliers in the UK nowadays, it’s hard to know where to begin.

  37. Bloke down the pub says:

    On Friday I’m having a PV array installed on the roof of my house. This is not because I think that it will do the slightest bit of good for the environment, but because the return on investment, paid by the feed in tariff, is so much better than what I can get from the banks. That part of the population which cannot afford to make this sort of investment will end up paying for my good fortune through their higher fuel bills. Hardly what could be called a fair and equitable system.

  38. Louis says:

    My preferred solution is to throw the useless lying thieving f—ers out of the windows of Parliament into the river Thames and form a national salvation committee.

    Tallbloke, what is a “salvation committee”? Is it the same thing as a rescue committee? Or is it a committee formed to pray for the souls of those who were thrown into the river?

  39. Wil says:

    tallbloke says:
    August 22, 2011 at 1:24 pm
    Problem is Wil, all the political parties subscribe to the green agenda. So it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the government always gets in.

    My preferred solution is to throw the useless lying thieving f—ers out of the windows of Parliament into the river Thames and form a national salvation committee.
    ———–
    Sorry to be so harsh – but I’ve been around long enough to know it is the people who drive political parties and not political driving the people’s agenda in the modern era. The Tea Party in the US comes to mind as a great example of representative elections. I stated I have no sympathy to the Brits nor the EU cousins because I believe, for what ever that’s worth, the Brits NEED the craziness and the utter disregard endemic to the present parties in the UK and the EU for their own citizen’s hurts and pains at a time of world wide economic instability are meaningless to the present political class in the UK and the EU.

    Ten thousand articles cannot drive home the utter hopelessness to the broad base of citizenry of any nation to their personal situation better than the cold, callous, disregard of the British and EU politicians better than the idiocy and utter stupidity of government actions as highlighted in this column. And this is certainly one of those instances where the madness of the EU umbilical cord to Brussels is most certainly leading a once great nation to their demise. I believe the UK is very close to rethinking their entire EU experience and it is instances like this that will bring back common sense to UK citizens however painful the experience yet to come. This then is why I feel no sympathy for the UK nor their EU cousins – this is a self-inflicted wound – and only UK citizens like you and I believe many others there are finally beginning to awaken from their long slumber brought on by the “green liberal” group think destroying much of the EU itself.

    I urge you never forget – ALL of the climate change madness – which BTW gave life to an Al Gore Demigod originated from the UK “green” machine in close association with the the likes of Hansen on this side gave rise to hundreds of millions if not billions of exported madness we’re still struggling to pay for. Unfortunately for you all – the Chickens have come home to roost.

  40. Kev-in-Uk says:

    Wil says:
    August 22, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    I think that’s harsh too Wil – though I agree in principle! The politicians did the same as all the tree hugging greenies in believeing the AGW scam. Most Mp’s can barely use a calculator (expenses scandal anyone?), let alone understand basic scientific principles! Politicians take up whatever ‘cudgel’ will get them elected, or at least win them a few extra votes, etc, etc.
    So, whilst I agree with your sentiment, the politicians are either brainwashed (yeah, I know, that’s an oxymoron for a politician!) like the greenies – or malignant spongers feeding on the current (MSM induced) fear of the masses! If its the second, they are of course complete bar stewards – but if they are the former, they are no different to the sad misinformed masses…..

  41. Kev-in-Uk says:

    Just as a slight aside. I often wonder who will be paying for the clean up of the countryside when some ‘better’ fuel/power comes along. I mean, we have massive decom costs for nuclear power – what will the decom costs for all those derelict wind turbines be in 10/20 years time?

  42. Retired Engineer says:

    Over 60 years ago, Robert Heinlein wrote (as near as I can remember) “You have mistakenly assumed malice where an explanation of stupidity would suffice.” Given that most politicians have the IQ of a tennis ball, and an overpowering need to be seen as “doing something,” is the wind farm mandate really a surprise? After all, we have a “crisis”, can’t let that go to waste. Collecting a heap of extra income certainly adds to the allure, and if the supposedly watchdog media plays along, the folks in charge win. With the dumbing down of our educational system, who can blame the media? They are products of it. The people, also products of the system, vote for these smooth talking scamsters. When the roof falls in, they’ll just blame it on Bush. (or Thatcher)

    In the words of John Derbyshire, “We are doomed.”

  43. RockyRoad says:

    alexjc38 says:
    August 22, 2011 at 2:08 pm

    Here’s a comment made by economist Dieter Helm of Oxford University….

    That’s just for the wind farms. Then you’ve got to put the transmission in place, all the systems, all the backup.

    That’s true, yet “all the backup” means none of the existing power generating capacity can be retired because wind farms are notorious for significant periods of zero output. I can’t imaging why power plants in the UK and the US are scheduled for mothballing, especially with no plans for replacement.

  44. Boudu says:

    Tallbloke: “My preferred solution is to throw the useless lying thieving f—ers out of the windows of Parliament into the river Thames and form a national salvation committee.”

    Now that’s a policy I could get with.

  45. PhilM says:

    The UK is generating 0.7% of it’s electricity from wind power at the moment…
    - meanwhile 3.3% is coming from France, which is 80% nuclear….

  46. jrwakefield says:

    The sad part of these wind turbines is their output is pathetic. From the UK:

    Windfarms in UK operate well below advertised efficiency
    Read the Full Report http://www.jmt.org/assets/pdf/wind-report.pdf

    PRINCIPAL FINDINGS

    in respect of analysis of electricity generation from all the U.K. windfarms which are metered by National Grid, November 2008 to December 2010. The following five statements are common assertions made by both the wind industry and Government representatives and agencies. This Report examines those assertions.

    1. “Wind turbines will generate on average 30% of their rated capacity over a year.”

    2. “The wind is always blowing somewhere.”

    3. “Periods of widespread low wind are infrequent.”

    4. “The probability of very low wind output coinciding with peak electricity demand is slight.”

    5. “Pumped storage hydro can fill the generation gap during prolonged low wind periods.”

    This analysis uses publicly available data for a 26 month period between November 2008 and December 2010 and the facts in respect of the above assertions are:

    1. Average output from wind was 27.18% of metered capacity in 2009, 21.14% in 2010, and 24.08% between November 2008 and December 2010 inclusive.

    2. There were 124 separate occasions from November 2008 till December 2010 when total generation from the windfarms metered by National Grid was less than 20MW. (Average capacity over the period was in excess of 1600MW).

    3. The average frequency and duration of a low wind event of 20MW or less between November 2008 and December 2010 was once every 6.38 days for a period of 4.93 hours.

    4. At each of the four highest peak demands of 2010 wind output was low being respectively 4.72%, 5.51%, 2.59% and 2.51% of capacity at peak demand.

    5. The entire pumped storage hydro capacity in the UK can provide up to 2788MW for only 5 hours then it drops to 1060MW, and finally runs out of water after 22 hours.

    OTHER FINDINGS have emerged in the course of this analysis in addition to the Principal Findings which related to the testing of five common assertions. These Other Findings are listed below.

    1. During the study period, wind generation was:

    * below 20% of capacity more than half the time;

    * below 10% of capacity over one third of the time;

    * below 2.5% capacity for the equivalent of one day in twelve;

    * below 1.25% capacity for the equivalent of just under one day a month.

    The discovery that for one third of the time wind output was less than 10% of capacity, and often significantly less than 10%, was an unexpected result of the analysis.

    2. Among the 124 days on which generation fell below 20MW were 51 days when generation was 10MW or less. In some ways this is an unimportant statistic because with 20MW or less output the contribution from wind is effectively zero, and a few MW less is neither here nor there. But the very existence of these events and their frequency – on average almost once every 15 days for a period of 4.35 hours – indicates that a major reassessment of the capacity credit of wind power is required.

    3. Very low wind events are not confined to periods of high pressure in winter. They can occur at any time of the year.

    4. The incidence of high wind and low demand can occur at any time of year. As connected wind capacity increases there will come a point when no more thermal plant can be constrained off to accommodate wind power. In the illustrated 30GW connected wind capacity model with “must-run” thermal generation assumed to be 10GW, this scenario occurs 78 times, or 3 times a month on average. This indicates the requirement for a major reassessment of how much wind capacity can be tolerated by the Grid.

    5. The frequency of changes in output of 100MW or more over a five minute period was surprising. There is more work to be done to determine a pattern, but during March 2011, immediately prior to publication of this report, there were six instances of a five minute rise in output in excess of 100MW, the highest being 166MW, and five instances of a five minute drop in output in excess of 100MW, the highest being 148MW. This indicates the requirement for a re-assessment of the potential for increased wind capacity to simulate the instantaneous loss (or gain) of a large thermal plant.

    6. The volatility of wind was underlined in the closing days of March 2011 as this Report was being finalised.

    * At 3.00am on Monday 28th March, the entire output from 3226MW capacity was 9MW

    * At 11.40am on Thursday 31st March, wind output was 2618MW, the highest recorded to date

    * The average output from wind in March 2011 was 22.04%

    * Output from wind in March 2011 was 10% of capacity or less for 30.78% of the time.

    The nature of wind output has been obscured by reliance on “average output” figures. Analysis of hard data from National Grid shows that wind behaves in a quite different manner from that suggested by study of average output derived from the Renewable Obligation Certificates (ROCs) record, or from wind speed records which in themselves are averaged. It is clear from this analysis that wind cannot be relied upon to provide any significant level of generation at any defined time in the future. There is an urgent need to re-evaluate the implications of reliance on wind for any significant proportion of our energy requirement.

  47. Kevin Kilty says:

    Two quick comments:

    First, to those who say the British are getting what they deserve for electing these idiot politicians. While there is a bit of justice in all this, the electorate in most countries are simply lied to, and there is little justice in punishing people who are the victims of media who cannot and will not report the truth.

    Second, look at the damage that public subsidies for “sustainable” energy have done in Spain. Now it’s the UK, and, as I watch one wind turbine after another head west into central Wyoming along I-80, it will eventually be the US. What is unsustainble is not fossil fuels, but rather the subsidies for these mad projects.

  48. Leo WUnder says:

    So what to do?… ethical dilemma: don’t get involved and suffer the taxes on power, OR join the crowd and get in there! Generate the power and even waste it – to get some tax-money returned! approx 40p per kWhr generated whether its used or not – senseless waste of public funding – but pays for the equipment + money back to oil the tax wheel…………. I will no longer have to farm the soil / fields for which I learnt much, but now farm the subsidies as so many have done before me…… Milking the system…………… and people in the world are starving or roofless

  49. James Fosser says:

    Surely there is a lesson from Libya for governments that trample on the rights of ordinary people. Peoples natures are the same all over the world, and if enough is enough in one place, it could easily become enough is enough in another. I would be trembling in my boots if I was a member of the top in the UK. A sign that the stoic British are changing their attitude is the consignment to history of the orderly queue no matter how inconvenient. I shall not even mention the disorderly recent events in both countries named here!

  50. D Bonson says:

    Those on limited incomes will be hit the hardest with this strategy and the elderly will be the most effected. If you do not have compassion and respect for your elders, don’t expect two experience those qualities from others when you are in their shoes.

  51. Edward Bancroft says:

    Vince Causey:
    “…..labour party MP after MP would be rising in the house to attack the Tory led coalition. ”

    The Labour party do not seem able to reach the conclusion that their policies are most damaging to the economic prospects of their own voter base. Presumably because the other two main parties are going along with the policy as well. Also because of a certain vulnerability to automatically and uncritically adopt Green/Enviro/EU supported causes.

    Gordon Brown (ex-prime minister) described sceptics as ‘flat-earthers’. Ed Milliband (ex-environment minister) stated that anyone who questions the CAGW notion is to be treated as ‘dangerous’. With attiudes like that it will take a monumental effort to shift their stance.

    Of course, the Con/Lib, Yeo/Huhn position is just as hard to shift as well.

  52. Janice says:

    Laurie Bowen says: “Not making any excuses for anyone . . . but, I happen to believe wind energy has it place.”
    Yes, Laurie, it does. In Little America, Antarctica, there is a wind-powered generator that feeds batteries. However, they also have diesel generators. Why is that? Well, the batteries are used to power electronics, and the diesel generators are used to create heat and light. If you didn’t have the diesel generators, the batteries would freeze and there would be no power for the electronics. So you are right, there is a place for wind-powered generators, but without storage batteries you cannot control the power that comes from them, and batteries require a lot of care and pampering to work well.

  53. Wil says: August 22, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    Personally speaking, I have NO sympathy for the Brits or their EU cousins (They’re no cousins!!). None what so ever. If the majority of those people re-elect those dead beats they elect election after election then they’re getting exactly what they paid for.

    Totally agree. The public get the politicians they deserve. They voted for a bunch of hypocriticy fox-hunting eco-nutters and they got David Cameron and his snot rag.

    Unfortunately, that’s not the whole story! The real power behind the throne are the civil servants. We don’t vote for the civil servants, we can’t change the civil servants, and the civil servants are the same scientifically illiterate bunch of morons that run the BBC. Indeed, in a real sense the politicians are just a discardable veneer to the civil service and the politicians are just there to take the blame for all the many gaffs of the civil servants who’ll advise the politicians that global warming is true and then expect the politicians take the blame when it is found it is a load of BS.

  54. jon shively says:

    This appears to violate the basic tenent of socilaism, taking from the poor to give to the rich. Of course that is what really happens with socialism. is it not?

  55. RoHa says:

    I’ve just returned from a visit to the UK, and I am glad to be back in sane, stable, Australia, where we don’t have any of this sort of nonsense.

    What?

    Oh.

    We’re doomed.

  56. Jay Davis says:

    Sorry to politicize your website Anthony, but this subject IS political. The best thing about what is happening in Great Britain is it serves as a great example of what happens if we let the liberal/progressive democrats and idiot rino Republicans have their way here in the USA. These idiots are hell bent on destroying our economy with their “green” agenda, and all of us have to do our best to stop them through the ballot box. Anyone who believes in AGW or “CO2 is evil” has to be defeated in the 2012 elections.

  57. Bob in Castlemaine says:

    The social and economic damage being wrought by the windmills and solar panels of the renewable energy scam is becoming increasingly clear. But one legacy of wind farms that does not seem to be well recognised is the huge 600 tonne concrete foundation blocks and the assocaited gravel road network that will remain at the end of their short 20 – 25 year service life. When AGW madness eventually runs it’s course, the steel skeletons of the windmills might be dismantled, but the man made monoliths and roads will remain forever, an unhealed scar on a once beautiful landscape.

  58. Scott says:

    This would be an appropriate cartoon.

    Its title, The Alternative Energy Revolution.
    http://xkcd.com/556/

  59. Mike Lorrey says:

    Economics aside, I dont see why people dont like the appearance of windmills. That said, if landowners are getting paid all out of proportion to the economic value of the turbines, good on ‘em. It’s rare that actual taxpayers get any of their own money back rather than being redistributed to layabouts and parasites.

  60. netdr says:

    I live in Dallas and it has been over 105 for many days this summer.
    When the temperature is that high it is BECAUSE there is no wind.
    Wind seems to be 1 or 2 mph or even zero almost every day. What good is a windmill if you have to build duplicate power plants for when you need it most ?

  61. Frank K. says:

    Bruce Rogers says: August 22, 2011 at 12:54 pm
    [So how well do these things work when coated in snow and freezing rain?]

    Like this…

  62. RACookPE1978 says:

    The fault is exactly that: The people are being charged – under false premises of CAGW and “green hyperbola” and enviro-fears – for needless very expensive machines that waste their money.

    Sure … If I take the money from 6 people to give to 2 people, I have “employed” two people. And impoverished 6 six, and are wasting the work of two, who now see the “gubmint” as the owner to whom they owe allegiance and their loyalty and their votes. But those two people are busy: One digging a hole, and one filling it back up. then the gubmint buys the labor of two more people (enslaving 6 more with new taxes) to plant bushes and water the some new grass over the hole that didn’t need to be dug in the first place. But the gubmint then pays for three bureacrats to administer the program for the first two to dig the ditches …. And borrows money from you and your 12 children to pay for two more bureaucrats (one on-site and one inspector) to monitor who bought the bushes to plant over the new holes ….

  63. Andrew Harding says:

    Christopher Booker is the only journalist to talk any sense in the UK national press with regard to AGW and the massive, unnecessary cost to reduce our 0.10% “carbon footprint” which will bring our economy to it’s knees. He deserves an OBE or preferably a Knighthood!!

  64. AJB says:

    @tallbloke says August 22, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Wrong target. The BBC is by far the primary evil in our midst and should be just as worrying to those outside the UK as those within who are forced to pay for it via the disgusting license fee racket.

  65. Ian W says:

    Bruce Rogers says:
    August 22, 2011 at 12:54 pm
    So how well do these things work when coated in snow and freezing rain?

    They are absolutely BRILLIANT in snow and freezing rain!! They collect the snow and freezing rain as ice on their blades and then ‘throw’ long chunks of ice more than half a mile with a startlingly high terminal velocity!

    Of course if it gets really cold the oil freezes and there is an expensive grinding noise as the gearbox self-destructs.

  66. MarkG says:

    “If the majority of those people re-elect those dead beats they elect election after election then they’re getting exactly what they paid for – green eco-nazis.”

    But they don’t.

    If I remember correctly, Blair’s Labour governments got around 20% of the available votes, and the last election was a vote for ‘none of the above’ but they got a government anyway. I don’t believe even Thatcher managed to get 50% of the votes cast, let alone 50% of the available votes.

    A large part of the problem is Britain’s antiquated electoral system where in most constituencies one party has a majority large enough that all other votes are simply worthless; where I used to live no matter how I voted I knew that the Tories would win. The only voters the politicians really care about are a million or two in constituencies which could switch party.

  67. polistra says:

    Not all the world is going crazy, not even all of Europe.

    Near all the lunatic countries is THE one blessedly sane country in the world.

    Turkey.

    Does everything right. Grows manufacturing, keeps bankers under firm control, maintains its culture.

    Latest evidence of sanity:
    http://marketplace.publicradio.org/display/web/2011/08/22/am-turkey-moves-forward-with-nuclear-energy-plans-/

  68. Jeff K says:

    Who is John Gault?

  69. TomRude says:

    The jig is up: redistribution, green taxes, all for a few, paid by all. British politicians from Labour or Conservatives have been bought by Big Green. Milliband or Cameron, same tune!

  70. Cirrius Man says:

    Now Now, Everyone !

    Remember the vision, don’t lose focus and be sure to retain the inspirational vision of a united ‘Green’ world sitting in the darkness around the wind turbines, holding hands and singing Kumbayah….. The dream will soon be realised !

    Unfortunately, I’ll be moving to China due to company off-shoring, so please send me an email when the wind blows and share your joyous stories of those winter moonlit evenings watching the frost gently settling on the doona as you prepare to sleep.

    May the Gaia always be with you !

  71. Nigel S says:

    ‘Stephen Wilde says:
    August 22, 2011 at 2:09 pm
    I was amused to find that all this had been predicted some 150 years ago by a chap called de Tocqueville.’

    It’s much worse than that. The people demand that their votes are bought with their grandchildren’s money (on both sides of The Pond). The politicians, who want to stay in business, merely comply.

  72. D Marshall says:

    @Rocky Road Pickens didn’t “get smart” – he intended to use wind turbines to secure the real prize which was the right-of-way / eminent domain to build a pipeline so that his company Mesa Water could drain and sell even more water from the Oglala aquifer to Dallas residents.

  73. Rabe says:

    In the US cats kill over 1,000 birds everyday, many of them endangered. Just imagine if a wind farm were doing this.

    genomega1, how many birds die everyday, many of them endangered, because they got just old?

  74. The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:

    Derek Sorenson:
    It’s npower. I was buying for 9p/kWh on signonline21, but a price rise of 7% has taken that up to 9.6p. Just like all the other companies though, npower are terrible. Four months ago I asked them what percentage of my annual bill goes on the government’s renewables scheme. Four months later they gave me half an answer – after giving me answers to questions I never posed! I’m still waiting for a full answer – and there are three complaints lodged with the company over it.

  75. The Ghost Of Big Jim Cooley says:

    Bloke down the pub:
    Your investment in a solar array has been poorly made my friend. I know it looks like you will get your money back, but trust me, you will not. If you’re interested I can give you all the figures. Did your supplier tell you about the inverter (for a start)? It will fail in 10 years and have to be replaced. The cost is around £1,000. But that’s just the start of the figures – be prepared for a shock.

  76. MangoChutney says:

    Will the last person to leave Britain please turn off the lights, please?

    Oops, I forgot, there’ll be no electricity to turn the lights on in the first place soon

    /Mango

  77. DirkH says:

    polistra says:
    August 22, 2011 at 7:26 pm
    “Turkey.

    Does everything right. Grows manufacturing, keeps bankers under firm control, maintains its culture.”

    The Kurds might have a different opinion.

  78. Steve C says:

    And this in a country where my energy supplier (the cheapest I could find, by a margin) has written to me in the past week:
    “I am sorry to let you know that we will be increasing electricity prices by an average of 12.2% and gas prices by 19.6% on 14th September 2011.”
    Note those percentages. And it’s under a year since the last (not much different) increase, and my income hasn’t gone up by a penny since those increases. It makes you wonder how much sh*t the British public will take before they wake up. Far too much, obviously.

  79. terry dewhurst says:

    For all you people in the UK, let’s all try to get this on the table . . .

    There is a proposal on the government’s epetition website to repeal the CLIMATE CHANGE ACT (nothing to do with me, I’m just concerned about my children’s welfare). The link is

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2035

    Economic prosperity is the only route to improving quality of life, so please sign the petition and pass the information on to anyone you can think of who wants to save what’s left of our economy.

    By the way, for all you that think all political parties are the same, I invite you to read UKIP’s manifesto from the last general election. I think you might be pleasantly surprised by their range of policies particularly an this issue

    thanks

    Terry

  80. Patrick Davis says:

    This really is madness. And Thatcher wanted the UK to be the finicial centre of the EU? I guess you can’t to that unless the wind blows. Good thing the UK Govn’t “shoehorned” 12 nuclear power plants in there too.

  81. anorak2 says:

    Wil says
    I have NO sympathy for the Brits or their EU cousins. So suck it up and pay your green taxes – you all elected them and you’re getting the justice you deserve!

    In most EU countries we have no mainstream political parties opposed to “green” policies, none whatsoever. So there is no way not to elect them.

    Democracy only works if there are actual alternatives to choose from. One way the ruling classes subvert democracy is by taking the alternatives away and streamlining all parties to the same policy. “Green” politics isn’t the only field where that is happening.

  82. John Marshall says:

    With a bit of luck and a good wind Huhne will end up in prison for getting his wife to accept a speeding fine for him. The Police are still asking questions I am glad to say.

  83. Ian Walsh (UKIP) says:

    “Personally speaking, I have NO sympathy for the Brits or their EU cousins. None what so ever. If the majority of those people re-elect those dead beats they elect election after election then they’re getting exactly what they paid for”

    “Problem is Wil, all the political parties subscribe to the green agenda. So it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the government always gets in”.
    There is always UKIP… we are the fourth largest party in the UK. and are the worlds first and only large political party to hold a sceptical view on AGW. http://www.ukip.tv/?page_id=74

  84. KV says:

    Cassandra King Aug 22 @ 1.23pm.

    A brilliant summing up of the position which applies in many countries. Your description of the situation in the UK is a mirror image of Australia as it is today. Only the names need to be changed. In my almost eight decades on this planet, I have never before known such anger and frustration in the general public against politicians of all persuasions, but in particular against the mish-mash of Labor/Greens/Independents under whom we have the misfortune to suffer and seemingly have to stand by and watch them ruin this wonderful country!

  85. Chris Wright says:

    Wil says:
    August 22, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    “Personally speaking, I have NO sympathy for the Brits or their EU cousins.”

    The problem is that all three major parties in the UK are equally deluded on this issue, so there’s simply no way to vote for a government that would bring this lunacy to an end.
    There is just a small glimmer of hope. The fourth largest party – the United Kingdom Independence Party – is actually quite sceptical about climate change and it would be capable of bringing this madness to an end. Unfortunately its chances of getting a working majority in a future electuion are essentiallky zero.
    However, many life-long Conservative voters – including myself – have switched to the UKIP. In the next elections, due in 2015, David Cameron will hope to get a full working majority so they can get rid of the Lib Dem idiots. To do this they may be forced to bring back voters from the UKIP, which would mean more robust policies on the EU and – hopefully – sane policies on climate change/energy.
    My last hope for the UK is a majority Conservative government in 2015. Although Cameron seems to be completely deluded over climate change/energy, much of the Conservative party – including, now, Margaret Thatcher! – are quite sceptical over climate change.
    By 2015 the tide against the climate change delusion will have gathered force, hopefully. Maybe even Cameron by then will be starting to realise that he had been tricked by the likes of Al Gore. Anyway, I have my fingers crossed!
    Chris

  86. Kum Dollison says:

    Interesting. Iowa gets 20% of its electricity from Wind, and 85% of Iowans want More Wind.

  87. bil says:

    To Wil, Tallbloke etc, you are all assuming that the UK Parliament in Westminster is our democratically elected government.

    Our real government in in Brussels, is completely unelected and dictates 80% of our laws including ‘greenery’. We have no say.

    Further, our MSM, led by the BBC, are completely supportive of this status quo. You must listen to Mark Mardell, the BBC’s North American editor, talking about the Tea Party as fruitcakes to understand most of the population will never be allowed to understand what is being perpetrated against them.

    I despair.

  88. David says:

    Because of its ‘deep green’ pension involvement, the BBC will NEVER tell the truth on wind turbines or other ‘renewables’. Any news item relating to a new wind farm ALWAYS quotes the ‘capacity’ (i.e. ‘COULD power 15000 homes’) – none of their journalists EVER asks: ‘..and for what percentage of the time will that occur..?’
    Recently – just before the government (for once sensibly) pulled the plug on industrial-scale solar farms – our local tv news sent someone to interview the developer. They stood in the rain in front of the array – and did the interviewer ask the developer to show him how much power was being produced at that precise moment..? Of course not – they just talked about how many homes COULD be powered… Oh – and also no mention of how much power would be produced during the twelve hours a day of darkness..!

  89. Janice says:

    Ian Walsh (UKIP) says: ““Problem is Wil, all the political parties subscribe to the green agenda.”

    Sounds like ya’ll’s need to look into this TEA Party thing. It may not just be for America anymore.

  90. geo says:

    “So how well do these things work when coated in snow and freezing rain?”

    Great story. . . last year here in suburban Minnesota, the local government bought several used turbines from a California company and had them setup and running.

    Until winter came. Oopsie. It turns out that while the turbines themselves were rated for winter usage, their actual ability to do so depended on the right lubricants being used. . . and coming used from California, these turbines weren’t using the winter-rated lubes. They froze up.

    Investigations were done, and the problem discovered. So they had to pay a large chunk of money to have them dissembled, cleaned, loaded up with the right goop and reassembled, adding significantly to the lifetime cost. D’oh.

  91. Janice says:

    bil says: “To Wil, Tallbloke etc, you are all assuming that the UK Parliament in Westminster is our democratically elected government. Our real government in in Brussels, is completely unelected and dictates 80% of our laws including ‘greenery’. We have no say.”

    I will refer back to those great English philosophers of the previous century . . . The Beatles:
    You say you want a revolution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change the world
    You tell me that it’s evolution
    Well, you know
    We all want to change the world

    Sometimes a little revolution is good. It was Englishmen who produced the Magna Carta, nearly a millenium ago. Time to wake up, and become Englishmen again. “We have no say” just sounds like whining to me, and belies your great heritage.

    ** Apologies for the political rant. We now return you to your scheduled program.

  92. Sal Minella says:

    Until the majority of Brits (and Americans, Australians, Germans, Spanish, etc.) wise up and get the green energy scammers out of positions of power they will get the fate that they deserve. As for the rest of us, we will be pushed to find alternatives or, eventually, revolt and incarcerate these idiots tp prevent them from harming us and themselves. I am always amazed that otherwise intelligent people buy into this green crap.

  93. John B (UK) says:

    (Never forget that the BBC has millions of pension fund pounds locked up in climate change dependent “green” investments.)

    The windmills are going to cost us upwards of £100 bn.

    Not to worry though, we’ve made a start towards saving enough to pay for it…..we’re cutting 16,000 police offices to contribute £2.7bn – just £97.3 bn to go……..And our defence forces are being dramatically cut back…..oh, and did I mention that we’re closing hundreds of libraries to save money? Oh yes, we’re getting on top of this, make no mistake, it’s all under control.

    Of course, there’s an extra £3bn to find for the overseas aid which our government has decided to increase to £12bn (India’s space program can always use the extra, even if an Indian company now owns Jaguar cars….and China can use some of the extra money to help fund MG motors which they now own.)

    And did I mention the billions of pounds we’re giving to help out Greece and our other Southern neighbours who’ve discovered that they’re short of a billion or two?

    Oh, and of course there’s the £ billions we’re paying every year to the EU, which hasn’t passed its own audits in the last 9 years….(but, you know, it’s a complicated business this European Union management thing, you can’t expect an auditor to understand the complexities, can you?)

    There’s a bit of a challenge coming as companies begin to move their remaining UK based manufacturing plants abroad to avoid the punitive increases in energy prices which are inevitable to help bridge the gap in the windmill funding, (Cadburies chocolate are moving to Poland following their purchase by Kraft, Dyson have long since moved their manufacturing to China),

    Oh yes, and the EU are threatening to tax all the fiscal transactions in London, which could cost us around £50 bn.

    But we’re not worried…..we can sleep easy in our beds because our government are reassuring us that this doesn’t matter, they can always print more money……(of course, so easy, why don’t more countries do it?)…..no problem.

    Good to know we’re in safe hands eh?

  94. theBuckWheat says:

    The average household budget has very little spare capacity to absorb increases in utility costs without having to cut back in other areas. This Green Madess will not end in a economically convenient manner. It will end when it is finally proved to be totally unsustainable, a concept the left loves to hammer the rest of us about. And the data is starting to pile up that CO2 levels trail temperature rises, not the other way around. So the Greens are doubly shown to be fools and dangerous people. The public backlash will not be pretty either.

  95. Ronald Myers says:

    A simple truth, which most seem to miss, and which seems so wrong that I have to constantly remind myself: Greenies don’t care if it costs more. They don’t care if it uglies up the landscape. They believe they’re fighting the good fight, and nothing will stop them. For them, windmills today=a better future for their progeny and the ever-important ‘environment.’
    No cost, no inconvenience, no difficulty will change that.

    We need to change the way we argue the point. We can no longer say ‘Wind power is more expensive, therefore it is not a viable alternative’. We must couch our arguments in more environmentally friendly terms. ‘Solar power costs more BECAUSE the initial energy invested in creating the solar cells is very near the energy returned during the life of the system’ (I’m not really arguing that point, but I think it is close to the truth, when you count manufacturing, transport, mining of materials-aka ‘cost’.)

    This argument-the energy budget argument-may be the only thing that will dissuade the greenies. They are willing to pay ANYTHING if it harms fewer flowers and puppies, so we need to show that some technologies kill lots of puppies during manufacturing, and few puppies later.
    For example, I read a piece some time ago that claimed that the manufacturing of a car used more fossil fuel than the car will ever burn over its lifetime. If that’s true, then we should be holding onto our cars for as long as possible-that’s the green way-NOT replacing it with an over-priced (read: energy intensive) ‘green car.’

  96. Ian Walsh (UKIP) says:

    “Unfortunately its chances of getting a working majority in a future election are essentially zero.
    However, many life-long Conservative voters – including myself – have switched to the UKIP”.

    Chris I would disagree.

    Glad to talk with a fellow UKIP’er on here though.

    I am chairman of a branch that has hundreds of paid up card holding members.

    Even the conservatives say that UKIP will win outright the EU elections in 2014.

    If I had a pound for every door I knocked on to the words “we are alone” but next door, the previous door, and the door after… say the same. Its just a question of letting the people know this to be the case. And In the latest national poll more than half the UK voters would leave the EU.

    The more people that vote for us, the more likely that we will quit the EU… and stop this climate madness.

    Look them in the eye and tell them UKIP will win. Our chance is not zero by any means. Cameron LIED to his members when he gave a “cast iron promise of a referendum on the EU.” prior the election which he promptly reneged on after ‘winning’ . His ‘ordinary members’ will have not forgotten this.

  97. biddyb says:

    Eu bureaucracy……….I was interested to see a job spec for a local council for a “Climate Change Officer – SEACS Project”. SEACS – Sustainable Energy Across the Common Space – aims to promote, through the Channel area (this is another EU target; to do away with national boundaries by creating cross-border regions and the Channel area covers parts of Brittany, Devon, Doset and Wiltshire), the integrated development of ennergy efficiency and renewable energy in order to reduce carbon emissions, create economic opportunities and achieve social cohesion.

    The project will build a cross-channel network of climate and energy ambassadors and jointly develop methods and tools adapted to the local context to empower communities to become local driving forces in implementing change in energy use. SEACS also offers to realize energy efficiency local projects, in partnership with citizens and local charities, to identify best practices leading to a sustainable energy use.

    Amongst the main actions is Climate and Energy Action Planning for Public Buildings and Schools: development of a climate and energy awareness programme of workshops, exhibitions, materials for schools and public buildings.

    In the local council job spec it says that the project will work with schools on energy efficiency/renewable energy projects, using the schools’ experience as a catalyst for the local community.

    In other words, here is 2m Euros to get on and brainwash the children so that they can brainwash the more sceptical local joes.

    This GACW/climate change octopus has more than eight legs and as fast as you try to prise one leg off you, another leg swiftly fastens on to the gullible public. Wil says he has no sympathy for the Brits or their EU cousins. To a certain extent I tend to agree with him. We all took no notice of those seemingly unimportant EU bureaucrats until the magnitude of their far-reaching tenticles has crept into every corner of our lives, fully aided and abetted by our own Houses of Parliament who passed the Climate Change Act. Quite how this can all be dismantled is a huge concern.

    Only one thing made me laugh and that was that the job spec said that “you will need to be pro-active, solution-focused, politically sensitive and have strong negotiation and interpersonal skills”. Oh, and a skin like a rhinoceros hide if you think you can stick it out for the money. I can’t wait to meet the poor sap……………………………

  98. Ian Walsh (UKIP) says:

    Janice said August 23, 2011 at 6:50 am “Sometimes a little revolution is good. It was Englishmen who produced the Magna Carta, nearly a millenium ago. Time to wake up, and become Englishmen again. ”

    Trust me UKIP… are ‘fighting’ .here is a small sample of what we are up against though. Can you guys in America understand the utter frustration here about this, its like waking up one day and finding Mexico has control of the USA and thats ok by your government.. and just to rub it in you give them $ billions per year for doing so..

    The EU parliament is very similar to the former soviet polit bureau… ‘OUR’ EU president (of 500 million of us) Herman Von Rompuy (who) was chosen behind closed doors by bureaucrats whom themselves were un-elected.

    The EU is a one (single) party system, there IS NO opposition party !!! and no means to remove them from office.

    No one in the UK under the age of 54 now, has had any say whatsoever about this process, and when people of other EU countries such as France, The Netherlands and Ireland (and a few others) DID manage to have a referendum on the EU treaties, (those over 54 voter for a TRADE aggreement with the then E.E.C.)

    AND SAID NO, they were either ignored or made to vote again (and again) until they said yes (as is the EU way)….but had they have said Yes of course, that would have been that !!!

    Some 70 percent of Britain’s laws are now made in the EU, and ‘OUR government’ HAVE to enforce them. (and do)

    British fishing boats throw millions of tons of DEAD but over EU quota fish back into the sea on pain of massive EU fines or jail. This is madness…

    It is a criminal jailable offence to sell a pound (weight) of bananas or anything else. Madness.

    We pay the EU £45 million per day just to be a member… and MIGHT get some of it back in the form of a ‘EU grant’ if you tug your forelock enough, for which they give you half of what you need and you have to match the grant for the rest, Madness.

    ‘Our government’ no matter which are just a puppet government of the EU,

    On the 1st of December 2010 this county (with no fanfare) ceased to be a ‘sovereign nation’ It was given to the EU…we are now a region in the EU…The word England does not appear on EU maps.

    Britain is divided into 12 regions, the Region of Scotland, the Region of Wales, and the Region of Ireland, England is broken up into 9 Regions, for example where I live is the South west region and is lumped in with Gibraltar

    and the regions are further sub divided .. into three zones that are joined with areas in other countries. e.g.

    The “Manche” region covers part of southern England and northern France while the Atlantic region includes western parts of England, Portugal, Spain and Wales.

    The North Sea region includes eastern England, Sweden, Denmark, the Netherlands and parts of Germany to create “transnational regions”.

    Each region, which will be given taxpayers’ money to promote trade links, cultural ties, transport policies and tourism, is to be run by a “managing authority” of unelected officials overseen by a director.

    None will be based in the UK, with Manche controled by the French, Atlantic by the Portuguese and North Sea by the Danes.

    It really don’t matter which of the ‘big three get in’ Labour , Conservative, or Liberal Democrat, ALL are pro EU… and all are complacet in giving our national sovereignty away to a foreign power

  99. Keith Battye says:

    Links would be valuable in backing up all that you say. Many members of WUWT are vague on the particulars of the EU and how it operates. Links would help those interested to research your statements and then they may feel like exchanging points of view. . . that is true for many contributions BTW .

  100. Vince Causey says:

    Ian Walsh,

    I think many people now feel they have nothing to loose by voting UKIP. In the past, you would vote Tory to kick labour out and get conservative policies implemented. Now all that has changed. The Cameroon’s don’t give conservative policies (with the notable exception of Michael Gove) any more. I no longer care whether the Tories win or loose the next election. Tory or NuLab, it doesn’t make any difference. Given no choice at all, why wouldn’t they vote UKIP?

  101. anorak2 says:

    To expand a little on the EU issue ….

    The EU has de facto legislative power in all EU countries. It can hand out directives which the national parliaments must implement as national law. By binding international treaties they have no option to vote no, they must vote yes.

    The EU authority who does this is the EU commission. It is not an elected body, its members are appointed by the national governments, thus a fundamental breach of basic democratic rights as well as the separation of powers principle.

    Until two or three years ago the commission could pass directives directly, so it could effectively create national laws without any democratic process. This has been amended somewhat recently, now the EU directives have to pass the EU parliament which is elected by the general population. However still today the EU parliament has no right to initiate directives, only the unelected EU commission has that right. Therefore the process is still illegitimate.

    BTW I’m in Germany.

  102. bob paglee says:

    Wind-power, subsidized by captive electric rate-payers, is a form of public robbery by the promoters of AGW. We need to restore common-sense by allowing all sources of energy to compete on a fair market basis, including coal, oil, gas, hydro, geothermal, wind and solar. Those that can’t compete fairly should be outlawed, even if we need to elect a new sheriff to lead a new posse that will put away the ecoreligious crooks who are charging us so unfairly.

  103. richard verney says:

    This is just too depressing to even muster a comment.
    The only sane thing to do is to emigrate. Preferrably to a warm climate, after all most of us could do with a bit of real global warming.

  104. bob paglee says:

    Wow! I never imagined my comment could be so earthshaking! We just suffered a fairly rocking earthquake here in un-prone New Jersey!

  105. rw says:

    Bob in Castlemaine:

    Your description reminds me of a certain poem, which if updated might read:

    And on the pedestal these words appear
    “We must save the planet while we still have time!”
    Nothing beside remains. Round the stillness
    of that hulking stone, the lanes and meadowlands
    stretch far away.

  106. rw says:

    Damn! I’m too quick on the trigger.

    I would now change the 2nd line to:
    “We must save the planet while we still have time!”

  107. A Lovell says:

    terry dewhurst says:
    August 23, 2011 at 1:10 am

    I’ve signed the petition and I voted UKIP at the last election.

    Technically, I’m one of the ‘elderly’ and despair of finding any more ways of cutting down further on my fuel bills. Good job I don’t eat much…………

    I spread the word and pass on sites like WUWT to as many people as I can, but I still feel impotent. I’m not an aggressive person, but sometimes I feel such utter frustration I would almost welcome violent revolution.

    UK spring anyone?

  108. Roger Longstaff says:

    richard verney says: August 23, 2011 at 10:51 am
    “This is just too depressing to even muster a comment. The only sane thing to do is to emigrate.”

    Alternatively, help to get rid of the legislation that mandates this nonsense:

    http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/2035

  109. Ian Walsh (UKIP) says:

    anorak2 says: August 23, 2011 at 10:02 am ” BTW I’m in Germany”
    Nice to meet you…

    Ukip are often said to be ‘anti-European’, which of course we are not. We are anti-EU.
    (love Europe but not the EU)

    Being branch Chairman I am closely involved with three UKIP MEP’s.So I have it directly from the horse’s mouth…. What you say is true… some “directives have to pass the EU parliament which is elected by the general population”.

    However I am told by my MEP friends that this is a scam… to put on a public show of democracy. They tell me that in reality often what they vote for is not understood, sometimes literally,
    as there are only half dozen languages translated… and it is quick fire… the vote being cast at somtimes several directives per minute …so some MEP’s don’t even know what they are voting for… but they have to turn up and vote get paid !!! go figure.

    Keith Battye says:
    August 23, 2011 at 9:34 am “Links would be valuable in backing up all that you say”.

    Hi to you too Keith..
    Ok… with due respect…
    I don’t have the inclination to look for links to ‘prove’ UKIP’s stance or what I have said.
    Its very like climate stuff, We here on WUWT of course also have a ‘stance’ but what links would you give to a ‘new person’ to the subject ?

    And… you would find the net crammed full of the opposite… Same as for the EU, they have billions of our money to promote themselves. and so as with climate…You have to find the truth about the E.U. from the noise for yourself.

  110. Septic Matthew says:

    Britain is providing very good evidence that they are not an example to follow.

    The experience with wind farms in Iowa and Texas is not nearly so dismal..

  111. rw says:

    By way of comment on politicians and their motives:

    Some say the world will be destroyed
    By knaves, some say by fools.

    Everything I know of greed
    Shows knavery could do the deed.
    But foolishness raised to its full height
    Is guaranteed to bring on blight.

  112. tallbloke says:

    AJB says:
    August 22, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    @tallbloke says August 22, 2011 at 1:24 pm

    Wrong target. The BBC is by far the primary evil in our midst and should be just as worrying to those outside the UK as those within who are forced to pay for it via the disgusting license fee racket.

    I threw the TV out of the window into the river several years ago. One of the BBC’s tax collectors turned up on my doorstep this spring. I doubt he’ll be back…

  113. For anyone out there that doubts the efficacy of wind power, all you need to do is ask your politicians, media reporters, school teachers, co-workers, or pastors one question : “Why build something that is totally unsustainable?”

    Wind Power has an Energy Returned On Energy Invested (EROEI) value, depending on grid upgrading required, of no more than 0.29. Why would anyone burn more than 3 barrels of oil to find one barrel of oil? This is the madness and legacy of wind power.

  114. John B (UK) says:

    Slow to follow 2. 32pm – your first link is to a website operated by the EWEA, the European Wind Energy Association. Their own web site explains: “The European Wind Energy Association (EWEA) is the voice of the wind industry, actively promoting the utilisation of wind power in Europe and worldwide. It is ideally situated in the heart of the EU district of Brussels ensuring close proximity to European decision-makers. ”

    You don’t think they might be just the teensiest bit biased?

  115. slow to follow says:

    John B (UK) – not when they have the support of “The Executive Agency for Competitiveness and Innovation”! :-0

    http://ec.europa.eu/energy/intelligent/library/doc/iee_mag_2_en.pdf

  116. John B (UK) says:

    slow to follow 3.44pm.

    Thanks for the link. Look, Im all in favour of energy efficiency.
    I read the link.

    Energy efficiency is a good think – yes, tick.
    Leaving my expresso machine on standby costs an extra 10 euros a year – well, ok, yes tick.

    But thats a biiiiiiig old jump to spending over £100 billion on windmills that will never ever run at peak capacity, and really will need reserve conventional power for when the wind doesn’t blow.

    Incidentally, I notice that your link says this question of a reserve requirement is a myth in the UK – why? because, it says, at the present minimal contribution which wind power makes, it really doesn’t make any difference when it doesn’t work.

    And they don’t seem to appreciate the irony in this…………………..

  117. ECEGeorgia says:

    Snotrocket said:

    “We – the stupid customers – are being steadily ripped off on current (bad pun!) billing by our suppliers who have a very long term plan to screw those poor people who still think overnight tariiffs are saving them money. We’re being had!”

    Get busy man! Post your comparison charges somewhere. Some Blog. Some “letter to the editor” Even here. This is a story which could “Get Legs”.

  118. DDP says:

    I’m not sure if it’s a smart decision by UKGOV to demand that energy companies be more transparent on billing. If they did that the majority who have been kept in the dark may suddenly see the light and start blaming those who are actually the ones responsible for the price rise. But then when has UKGOV been able to make a smart decision?

  119. Andrew Harding says:

    A couple of weeks ago I went on a price comparison website and have changed our energy supplier to one that has frozen costs until 2014. This is because I think energy costs will go through the roof to pay for this AGW crap. Pity I cannot do the same for air fares and petrol or preferably bang the collective heads of our alleged leaders together.

  120. Rita says:

    Wil – I have to take issue with you, that’s an over-simplification of the situation. The last UK government was Labour, and had EXACTLY the same policies with regard to renewable energy as the current lot, the coalition of Conservative/Lib Dem (and all parties are under the EU thumb), so it doesn’t matter who we vote for, the result is the same. Imagine Democrats and Republicans having exactly the same energy policy: that’s basically what we have here. Labour and Lib Dem have most of the ‘eco-nazis’ as you call them, Conservatives have the ‘capitalist-nazis’, who plunder for profit – for them, obscenely subsidised renewable energy is the best thing to come along in many years. The only political party actively against renewable energy policies and the EU is the UK Independence Party, and they aren’t big enough or well funded enough to have many candidates.

  121. Bruce Cobb says:

    Sabotaging ones’ own country used to be called treason. Now it’s called “saving the planet”. Go figure.

  122. VMartin says:

    Well, here in Southern Ontario, we now have a maximum wind turbine capacity of approximately 1,600 MW from 1,339 wind turbines. When the Government of Ontario first released plans for their ‘Green Energy Act’, I believe I heard the developers talk of the monsters operating at an average 40% ‘capacity factor’ which one assumes means that they will put out 40% of their rated kWh….sometime shortly thereafter, this strangely was dropped to 25%. I’ve been watching this website almost daily for updates as to what the makeup of electrical energy supply is in the province http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelectricity/ontarioelectricity.html It’s great because one can see the data on an hour by hour basis for a moving 48 hour window. Over the past month, I don’t think that I’ve ever seen the total wind generated power exceed 500 MW….most of the time it is in the 150 MW range once I saw it drop to 5 MW. Our wonderful premier seems to have a target in mind of at least 3,500 MW generated by wind power because this then looks like it will replace coal. Not too many people seem to know this but a wind turbine that is not running not only isn’t producing electrical energy, it’s sucking it off the grid as there are several systems that need to be kept operating i.e. think oil lubrication temperatures, lights, control systems, heat tracing lines etc. So with this in mind and thinking about a recent event when we hit 5 MW, how many of these will need to be built to replace coal? If the theory is that the ‘wind is always blowing somewhere’, a province full of them with one on every rural intersection won’t be adequate to meet supply.

    Incidentally, we just had a significantly windy day and I believe that a new capacity record of 1,286 MW was set….. however, a few hours earlier, the entire Ontario wind turbine network was producing a measly 89 MW. So, am I sceptical of the power schemes for this province? Someone here has talked about the looters….. it’s a good Ayn Rand term and quite apropos to the current times. Frankly, it really is the time to do whatever is possible to get off-grid.

  123. Derrick Marshall says:

    Finally i have found intelligence in the universe,great discussion folks.The problem we have in Canada is that the last 30 years has seen our manufacturing sector decimated,this last generation coming through has never manufactured ANYTHING,they have NO working knowledge to see a wind turbine scam if the tower fell on their head.GOOGLE top hits are from wind turbine sales people and others looking to get into the fraud.Our teachers that are in love with these wind turbines couldn`t thread a bolt into a nut…hardly the folks to recognize or understand a mechanical disaster,they get their info from the infomercial “news” sector.And we wonder why we have a so called “green” crowd that represents ignorance.

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