Vegans are not from Vegas

Guest Post by Willis Eschenbach

In response to my recent post about whether we could feed more people if everyone were vegetarians (I say no), a poster named Marissa wrote a heartfelt paean  to Veganism.

Figure 1. Perhaps the world’s best-known adherent of a strict Vegan diet.

Vegans are a kind of fundamentalist sect of born-again vegetarians who eat exclusively vegetables, no eggs, no fish, no milk, no cheese, no insects. Merissa’s post starts off as follows:

Ok, I don’t think I have read one comment from a true vegan on this thread. Well I am Vegan and let me share with you the benefits that I have experienced …

Merissa follows with a list of the things s/he has gotten from following a Vegan diet. This stirred me to write again about why people eat meat.

Merissa, I think that it is great that you have found a way of eating that works for you. The problem is not that some people find that vegetarianism or Veganism works for them. That’s a good thing. I say more power to you. You should eat exactly what feels best for your life and your body. I ate vegetarian for three years myself.

Now perhaps it’s something in the vegetables that causes the problem, I don’t know. But all too often, recent initiates into the mysteries of some branch of Vegetableism then feel compelled to tell me how much better the world would be if every single person ate, not what works for them, but what works for the Vegetableist in question. And this is all too often accompanied by the claim that we could feed more people if humans only ate vegetables.

For the host of reasons I listed in the previous post, people around the planet have found it advantageous to domesticate and keep (and eat) animals. Perhaps some random Vegan knows more about how to scratch out a living in a hostile world than do all of the billions of poor farmers and householders around the planet, maybe they’re all wrong to keep chickens and pigs and such, maybe we might be able to feed more people if we were all vegetarians … but I doubt it very much. The farmers and the poor around the planet aren’t that stupid.

It has occasionally been my good fortune to work and spend time with very poor people, the dollar a day people, the people at the very opposite end of the economic spectrum from me, or you, or anyone rich enough to own a computer or a pair of nice shoes. There’s a lot to learn at that end of the economy, including about people’s diets. To understand the position of meat in the global diet, you need to remember that most people don’t eat the same as you and me and the folks who own computers and nice shoes. Most people on the planet are already vegetarians most of the time … only not by choice. For most people, meat is a delicacy. It is not on the menu very often.

Once when I was working in Liberia, in West Africa, they were burning a local sugar cane field. The whole village came out with clubs. They surrounded the fire in a long line. When the fire chased the cane rats out of the burning cane, they clubbed the rats and took them home and ate them. I found out that cane rat fried up in slightly over-the-hill orange colored oil palm oil (no refrigeration) tastes pretty good, although for a couple days afterwards I belched more rancid palm oil fumes than an out-of-tune biodiesel Volkwagen …

And of course cane rat is considered a good thing, meat for the family.

Here’s the reason why cane rat is a delicacy, why kids lined up to get some of the meat. The villagers that eat that meat are stronger and healthier and more resistant to disease and quicker to heal and faster growing than the villagers who don’t eat that meat. Simple as that. The chance to eat meat doesn’t come up often. When that chance comes up, those people that eat the meat improve their chances of living compared to those who don’t eat meat.

Our bodies know that and have known it since forever. You could see it in the kids’ eyes, they could smell it, they wanted it, their bodies responded without conscious thought. Meat makes you stronger, it provides a host of vitamins and minerals, it is powerful food. Which is why people eat meat, in Africa and around the planet. It increases their odds of survival in a harsh and unforgiving environment. So they ate cane rats.

Here’s another story from another time and place, with the same subject. One late afternoon, through a series of misunderstandings and coincidences, I found myself sitting in the welcome shade of some trees in a railroad yard in Mexico, waiting to hop a freight train. Two young boys came by, brothers the older one said, perhaps four and seven years old. Built on the usual blueprint of the poor, undersized and skinny. I struck up a conversation in Spanish with the seven year old. The younger boy never said a word. He just trailed a few feet behind his older brother, and watched everything with black shiny eyes.

The older boy had a slingshot made of a tree branch “Y” fork, with a dozen or more ordinary rubber bands of all sizes and colors attached to each fork of the “Y” and to the leather pouch.

I asked what they were doing. The boy said they came to the railroad lines because there were perfectly round stones for his slingshot in the railroad bed. He showed me how hard it was to pull his slingshot. Oh, I suppose you are the grán cazador, the mighty hunter, I jested.

Si, Señor, yo soy, he explained very soberly in Spanish, yes, Sir, I am.

My skepticism must have shown in my eyes. Mira, he said, watch.

He searched around, picked up and discarded a few stones, finally settling on exactly the right one. He put it in the pouch of the slingshot, and started walking around and gazing intently up into the tree branches above us. He stopped, pulled back and let fly.

There was a “poof” sound up in the tree, and a bird the size of a small robin, that I didn’t even know was in the tree, tumbled down at my feet. He and his tiny brother both jumped on it, and he twisted its neck in an economical, practised fashion.

With my mouth hanging open, I hastened to assure him that I was wrong to doubt his word. I said he was indeed a skilled hunter. I asked what he would do with the bird. Oh, para comer, señor, it’s for food, sir, he said. I said are you going to take it home to your mamá to cook it? Oh, no, Señor, somos siete, he said … oh no, Sir … there’s seven of us kids … I nodded my understanding.

He and his short confederate scurried off. They returned with some grass and twigs. He pulled out a tattered matchbook and lit a fire. In no time he had plucked that bird, gutted it, skewered it, and had it cooking over the fire. I watched in astonishment.

I walked to the corner where an old lady was frying tacos on a dished-top tin can stove. I bought a few potato tacos the size of silver dollars. She didn’t sell meat tacos, poor people don’t buy meat tacos. She made tacos with potatoes and tacos with beans. I brought them back, and gave most of them to the midget hunter and his mini-amigo. And God damn it, he wanted me to take half the bird, but I could see their eyes caressing it.

So I told them I could only eat a small bite on account of my liver. That being the common explanation there for any physical infirmity, the older boy nodded sagely. He agreed that a man has to take care of his liver, you can’t be too careful. He said his liver was fine, thanks, and they happily polished off that bird. I bought another round of potato tacos to celebrate, which had similarly short lifetimes.

And you know, as the two of them sat there content under the tree, sucking on the bird bones and watching the sun set, somehow I just didn’t have the heart to tell that small man and his smaller brother-in-arms just how much better off he and his little bitty buddy and the rest of the world would be if only they and everyone else became vegans …

My best to all,

w.

[UPDATE] Twelve years after I wrote this, science is finally catching up with what every kid on a cattle ranch knows … see “Going Vegan Isn’t the Most Sustainable Option for Humanity“.

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265 Comments
Adam Gallon
October 20, 2010 12:36 am

Marvelous!

Alan the Brit
October 20, 2010 12:53 am

Is it not that too few of us actually read our history? Why man is where he is today? I once contracted for an engineer who was part vegetarian & his partner wholly so about 12 years ago now. He would often scoff at my (occasional) fried bacon & egg sandwich with melted cheese topping lunch, usually indulged in as a Friday treat. He once asked me facetiously “you know too much meat is bad for you & why is it that human beings are the only animal to heat its food?” To which I replied “heat is energy, hot food provides better energy than cold food, & that’s how mankind has managed to survive half a dozen or so ice-ages & not get wiped from the face of the planet, so eating meat & the discovery of how to make fire was a good thing!” I also added as an after thought that eating heated meat may well stem back to the days when an instant kill was devoured almost at once with the meat being at body temperature! Perhaps that’s why I & many others like our steaks on the rare side? May be may be not.

L
October 20, 2010 1:02 am

Spot on, Willis. Thanks.

Ronaldo
October 20, 2010 1:07 am

Willis
Thank you for the wisdom in this post.

crosspatch
October 20, 2010 1:09 am

Meat is how we convert indigestible vegetable protein into something we can eat. If you eat a cow, you are eating grass or grain.
If veganism is so good for the body, why was there not a single naturally evolved vegan culture? It is because veganism is not sustainable in a hardscrabble subsistence culture. In the bush you eat what you can find when you can find it. There are no freezers, refrigerators, ships from Chile loaded with fresh grapes or planes loaded with berries showing up. It takes a huge infrastructure to support a vegan. The amount of energy consumed just transporting their food and keeping it from spoiling is tremendous.
Ask a Californian and they will say “eat local”. That’s fine in a place where something grows practically year round but tell that to someone from Bemidji, Minnesota … in January. The only local thing you are going to eat is fish you might catch at Joe’s ice fishing shack out on the lake. Maybe if you are lucky and driving around Cumberland, Wisconsin you might come across a rutabaga, but in January the ground will be like solid rock frozen to foot or more deep.
Vegans love to talk about how “sustainable” their lifestyle is. I can buy a lamb in the spring and let it graze all summer. Then I can have it butchered in the winter (so I don’t have to feed it) and it can feed my family over the winter with the grass that it ate in the summer. No airplanes or ships (or lawnmowers) required.
I really don’t like the whole “fundamentalist” religious vegans who try to tell everyone else what they should be doing. It is almost as if they themselves are unsure and if they can convince someone else, then maybe they can convince themselves (someone else bought into it, I must not be all THAT crazy).
If you live in the bush you are NOT getting a varied diet. You are eating what is growing within walking distance of you that day when it is in season. If a rabbit runs by, catching that rabbit probably provides more nutrition than a week’s worth of digging roots and scavenging nuts and berries.

Editor
October 20, 2010 1:10 am

Willis
I have been a vegetarian for many years but it is not my place to tell anyone else how to eat. All I would ask is that meat eaters choose ethical sources for their food, where the welfare of the animal is properly considered. A great deal of meat is reared in factory type conditions and suffer considerable streas. Animals are not a commodity but living creatures who should be respected. So other than that caveat enjoy your steak.
tonyb

John Marshall
October 20, 2010 1:11 am

If you choose veganism as a way of life it is up to you but do not try to convert others. Humans are omnivores and as such are at the top of the food chain. No vegetarian animal holds a similar position. Our eyes are at the front of our heads just right for hunting other animals. We have canine teeth and our back teeth are a combination of cutting and grinding teeth. All for an omnivorous diet. Just like grizzly bears. Though not polar bears since they have carnivores teeth proving that different environments can produce different dental development.
Human babies do not thrive on a vegan diet as my wife, a community midwife, was forced to tell one of her mothers who decided that a vegan diet was for her newborn.
My only experience of a vegan family was in our local village and they were always ill and always looked sick but perhaps that was just them.

JohnM
October 20, 2010 1:15 am

I do exactly the same as them. Except I do it in Tesco with a basket. Chicken at half price !

UK Sceptic
October 20, 2010 1:16 am

I flirted with vegetarianism for several months in my early twenties. It was the smell of a particularly delicious Sunday roast that brought me back to my senses. Never regretted the regression.

James Bull
October 20, 2010 1:21 am

My wife and I have for a number of years supported a UK charity which was started by a group of Devon farmers who sent cows to Africa, where they were given to people to help them work themselves out of poverty. They can drink the milk, use the manure to improve the soil to grow more veg etc and they can sell the excess to raise money to send their children to school. This raises their self esteem and makes them useful to their whole community.
They now have a wide range of animals/birds, fruit trees/bushes and training (building simple tip taps, rain water reservoirs, special gardening methods or how to make a fuel saving stove) that they supply to those they help. The main emphasis of the work is that those who receive these things is that they pass on the first born to someone else to benefit them.
For more info see http://www.sendacow.org.uk/home

Gareth Phillips
October 20, 2010 1:23 am

Here in Wales we have a lot of upland areas which are more akin to tundra than the usual fertile British soil. They are no good for arable farming, but the hardy Welsh black sheep thrives if stocked at the correct levels and converts all that unusable land into the finest Lamb and Mutton to be found anywhere in the world.
Something that I do not think we should encourage in Europe though is the killing of wild birds except those bred for sport. Migrating birds crossing Spain and Malta have a terrible time with millions of song birds and raptors killed for sport as they overfly these and other countries. There is really no need in Europe to kill these birds for food or fun, I would rather see our young people eat a good piece of Welsh mutton, than see the last remaining Nightingales killed for sport.
While meat is tasty and can be good for the environment, remember a vegan day once or twice a week is also good for your health.

October 20, 2010 1:23 am

There is a reason all those “vegetarian by poverty” folk don’t live long or illness free lives – they can’t afford all the food supplements most vegans and true vegetarians need to swallow (and which their bodies process extremely poorly), which also produce huge amounts of toxic waste in the manufacturing process…
So much for Veganism being eco-friendly. Mind you, I suppose it could be argued that their “uncontaminated” bodies decompose more easily and feed the eco-system more readily…

M White
October 20, 2010 1:25 am

Cooked meat makes the protein easily digestable in the human stomach. Digesting raw meat takes a lot of energy.

rxc
October 20, 2010 1:26 am

I think that the proper vegan reply would be that because of science we now understand what sort of food we have to eat in order to avoid meat. It is possible to eat a healthy vegan diet and maintain body mass and muscle tone and all of those other important physiological factors.
My response to this, however, would be to say that I prefer to eat meat because it tastes good, to me, and I do not appreciate people telling me to eat somthing “because it is good for me, and the planet”. I don’t take well to preaching, of any sort.
Unfortunately, these vegans have an argument that resonates with the young, who are looking for something to save, or at least to help them feel good/better, and this is a simple way for them to do so. So, the vegans will continue to proliferate, and someday they will start to get legislation passed (I guess it has started, already, with foie gras), and then we will all have to move to France if we want to get somthing tasty to eat.

crosspatch
October 20, 2010 1:32 am

A great deal of meat is reared in factory type conditions and suffer considerable streas. Animals are not a commodity but living creatures who should be respected.

Your concern for the helpless is admirable. That said, lets put this in perspective. Imagine an existence where most of your children never live past age 5. 85% of people born do not live past the age of 35 years. A simple cut can be deadly. And I am not talking about thousands of years ago, I am talking up to about the middle to late 1800’s. President Coolidge’s son died from a blister on his heel suffered while playing tennis.
Imagine the stress and suffering that human beings are generally subjected to. The attitudes of many of the people are, I believe, rooted in the fact that their living is so good, they project their own standard of living onto everything else. It isn’t like it is here in the jungles of Brazil or Africa. In fact, we might return to those sort of conditions once bacteria evolve resistance to every known antibiotic. You will be darned lucky to simply be alive and if it is the animal or you, the animal loses because in that sort of condition, we can not afford a single human loss and human life, the struggle for very survival, means that the animal might suffer discomfort.
But one should never lose respect for the animal. Respect the animal, eat the bounty it has provided, and be thankful for it. To not eat it is to simply waste a life.

Malaga View
October 20, 2010 1:40 am

I think that it is great that you have found a way of eating that works for you.

Great post… Thank you… as they say: travel broadens the mind… how true… and indeed it would be a wonderful world if everyone had the luxury of choosing the food they wanted to eat… but unfortunately they don’t… which makes me very grateful every time I indulge myself with the luxury of choice… and I am especially grateful that I have not been eaten by another carnivore.

October 20, 2010 1:41 am

I’d bet, that if you went back 60 or 70 years into Bugs’ cartoon archives, that you’d find some hot dogs or other great American non-vegan items mentioned.
Cows are very good at converting things we can’t eat, like grass, into things we can eat, like hot dogs. Fish are likewise proficient. We’ve a lot of people to feed out there, and denying a source of food doesn’t help.
Protein has always been a problem for voluntary and involuntary mainly vegetarian diets. We were designed as omnivores, with omnivores’ teeth, so straying from design operation will have bad side effects.

Lawrie Ayres
October 20, 2010 1:48 am

There are many areas that are unsuitable for growing vegetables but are quite suitable for grazing animals. By eating the grazers we are utilising otherwise poor country. Check out the middle eastern cultures that gain most of their meat from goats grazed on what looks like bare rock and sand.

Editor
October 20, 2010 1:56 am

I for one am not Vegan – far from it – but hey – if it works for you great!!!
Being skeptical by nature, CAGW is not the only “science” I have researched and found wanting. Dietary advice from the “experts” and “scientists” are to me laughable, with more wheat & cereal lobbyists dictating Governmental advice than true health benefits.
I watched (and quitely chuckled to myself) when a US friend of mine went on to a very strict low-cholesterol, high-fibre diet 30 years ago. Lots of exercise (yes very good), but suffering many other health issues over the years.
My bacon and eggs breakfast each day, with toast simply oozing in butter continues 30 years on – and guess who has cholesterol problems?
I enjoy plenty of red meat – he following his Doctor’s advice can have virtually none
There is much alternative evidence regarding high-protien, high-dairy diets out there, but what are we being spoon-fed (pun intended?)
Oh and yes, there is a history of high-cholesterol with both my parents – I have very low cholesterol – go figure !
I just did my research, made my own mind up and followed what seemed perfectly natural – eat what feels and tastes good – if that’s Vegan for you then fab – for me well I choose otherwise
Andy

Stefan
October 20, 2010 2:12 am

I used to think that eating mostly veg was good for me, because that’s what everyone was saying. Once in a while, every few months, I’d have a take-out dish that was pure meat. After a year I wondered why each time I happened to have the the meat dish, I felt better the next day (better mood, better wellbeing, even though the meat dish was “bad”).
I eventually went paleo and couldn’t believe how much better I felt. I thought I was being “healthy” on veg and legumes and carbs, until I discovered how it feels to eat meat without carbs.
Now that’s just me, so that’s not meant to convince anyone. My point is that until one has tried a variety of radically different diets, one doesn’t really know, not even about one’s self.
I think the first rule is, listen to your own body. Notice how it feels. Forget the intellectual dogma. Forget the noble causes. Just listen to how the body reacts. How does the stomach feel after eating a steak? How does it feel after eating a plate of pasta? How does it feel after eating a load of broccoli? How do you feel the day after as it moves through your digestive system?
At least figure out the body’s reactions, as problem or query number 1. Then we can worry about the other issues, like, can we produce enough carrots? Or can we rear enough cows?
I do agree, people who talk about the world ought to get out there and live there for a few years, not as tourists, or travellers, but live there as locals, and see for themselves what food shortages look like, what undernourished people look like, on their diet of heavy carbs, and what the living conditions really are in the world. And just wonder that if a person in Zambia chooses to seek meat as their preferred diet, just wonder that maybe that person knows what they are doing.
The Church also says that condoms are not good and we can’t just let people have sex for the sake of pleasure and not procreation. We have all sorts of dogmas in the world. Maybe vegetarianism is better…. maybe…. but let’s start by taking the dogma out of it. That means experimenting, trying things out, and really trying to discover the truth of something, and not just regurgitate dogmas.
I guess the environment is so complex that people are quickly left with nothing but dogmas to hold on to. Let’s just keep an open mind, let’s just start trying to look at the complexity of nature, and let’s allow ourselves the wonder of being surprised that what we believed wasn’t true.

Natsman
October 20, 2010 2:14 am

It’s the old, old story – what YOU do is bad – you must do as I say (or in some instances, do), because it’s good.
Why is it some pious, holier than thou people are hell bent on taking away other people’s freedoms of choice? What utter hypocrisy.

Sleepalot
October 20, 2010 2:17 am

“A great deal of meat is reared in factory type conditions and suffer
considerable stress.”
Whereas in the wild, zebra get followed around by lions…

John A
October 20, 2010 2:17 am

I had a gay English friend who was a vegan who lived with his partner in San Jose. We talked about food and his attitude to meat and dairy products in general.
He was (is) a skeptic about most things and as a result, refreshingly free of the normal NoCal BS. He admitted (no, proclaimed) that the reason he was a vegan was that he lived in the most prosperous food-laden country in the world, and that if that changed, he would be easting meat like everyone else who was hungry and desperate for nutrition.
I continue to have the greatest respect for someone as honest as that. His veganism was a choice that he could make when he can pick and choose what and when to eat.
Veganism is a product of the overabundance of food in some countries and guilt that so much food is available while others in poor countries struggle for food.
I guarantee you that given the choice between eating meat and starvation, there will be no vegans.

Stefan
October 20, 2010 2:18 am

James Bull says: … http://www.sendacow.org.uk/home
WOW! What a great idea!

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