Today at Huffington Post, a prominent soldier in the environmental movement wrote:
I was stunned by the industry’s shamelessness — and then chagrined at my own gullibility.
It seems the iPhone app “Our Climate” has caught the attention of the chairman of the Sierra Club, Carl Pope.
That quote above is from when he got suckered by an April 1st spoof app supposedly released by the coal industry (made up by another Sierra Club leader as a joke). As is typical for people that write with an agenda to discredit, he doesn’t examine any of the facts surrounding the topic or the application itself. Predictably, he’s used a collection of weasel words. Pope writes in the Huffington Post:
But truth, it seems, does imitate fiction, with only a few month’s lag time. For this week a prominent climate-cynics site, Watt’s Up With That, released a climate-misinformation iPhone app that contains far more damaging Orwellian language than the Sierra Club’s coal industry spoof. The app, called Our Climate, does indeed treat global warming as, perhaps, just the result of natural atmospheric rhythms. But then again, maybe the globe isn’t warming at all. Indeed, Our Climate is, in its own words, a “bite-sized” guide to how climate cynics argue — and as a result rarely have so many contradictions been encompassed in so little space: Climate is highly variable on its own, so people can’t be causing it to change . Then again, climate has self-correcting feedback mechanisms, so it can’t change, regardless.
But there is one consistent theme to all of the material contained on the Our Climate” app (and on its parent WUWT site). Taken in isolation, each bit of data is designed to send your brain the message, “There’s nothing to worry about (and no reason to stop burning coal and oil).”
Here’s the funny part. The app isn’t mine, I didn’t write it, and I make nothing from it. I only wrote about it a couple of times, as did many other skeptic blogs. Yet the Sierra Club chairman Pope gives WUWT all the credit for it, saying:
For this week a prominent climate-cynics site, Watt’s Up With That, released a climate-misinformation iPhone app
In fact, it was written in Australia, by Aeris Systems which is connected to WUWT only by the fact that they asked me to review it and post the press release.
Even though Pope links to the iTunes page for the app, which has no mention of WUWT, and that page links to the ourclimate.info website, where again there’s no mention of WUWT, he seems to have missed this basic bit of research on ownership. Oh but it doesn’t stop there. Pope also links to the Guardian smackdown by the other climate app developer, John Cook:
And, guess what? WUWT isn’t mentioned in that article either, neither am I. It’s pretty embarrassing when the chairman of the Sierra Club can’t take a couple of minutes to read the content in the links he cites. I have no idea how he came to the false conclusion that the app is mine.
Kids, this is what happens when you don’t do your homework. Will Pope fix it over at HuffPo? Doubtful – the Sierra Club traditionally doesn’t let facts get in the way of a good rant.
Looks like Sierra Club chairman Carl Pope may have been writing an autobiography with this book title:
Carl Pope will probably get more traffic to his webpage than he ever imagined in his wildest dreams. Piece also posted here:
Pope’s Sierra Club blog
yeah and i used to support and work with these people.
“environmentalism” has been completely hijacked by the global warming industry…you can almost forgive the average joe for being duped, but guys like carl pope know better. they are in it only for the money.
meanwhile real environmental and health issues go completely ignored.
what a travesty.
Looking at that book cover, I realized just how much I miss Dubya.
You’re obviously under quite a few people’s skin, Anthony. No doubt because the debates you host threaten their wallets.
To be fair I, as a regular reader of your site and a supporter, also had the impression that the iPhone app was yours. Okay, true, I wasn’t writing a critical (or friendly) article about it and so didn’t look at that assumption closely, but I’m not surprised that Poop — sorry, Pope (wait, that’s just as bad) — got that impression. I don’t recall Aeris Systems being mentioned. Perhaps they were, but the overall impression to me was that the app was a Wattsupwithtaht thang.
Even so: Keep up the excellent work.
WUWT must be becoming a burr in the enviro wackos backsides.
Next thing they’ll be doing is claiming the Pielke & Curry are lackeys of big coal and big oil.
Arriana and her post, can kindly go stuff it!
And to think I used to like her before she got all whacked out.
š
Chris
[snip – badly off color]
Sierra Club, SIERRA CLUB? I’ve heard that name somewhere before.
Oh yes, that’s right! In the mid 1980’s they had their Colorado Lodge CLOSED DOWN by the Colorado health department.
Why? Because they had delayed to the point of “obviously we don’t intend to do this”, putting in a proper sewage treatment system for the lodge.
Then there is the local case (Minnesota) where they “cleared” a road to their facility in the Boundary Waters Canoe area. Fine idea, but the National Forest Service had a little problem with it, as there WAS NO PERMIT FILED, and no permission granted. (That one was handled in a COMPLETELY POLITICAL MANNER, with them being given a “pass”…after all, they are ENVIROMENTALISTS and they can DO NO WRONG…!)
Ah yes, you Sierra Club at work! Making sure the Sierra’s are befouled, and the wilderness destroyed, in order to save it.
Well, obviously Pope lives by his book which should have been titled “Applied Ignorance”.
But then again, maybe the globe isnāt warming at all.
It isn’t. It’s been cooling since 1998. Also, if we go back 1000 years it was warmer on earth than now.
Anyone else notice that in the last couple of monthes we have went from stupid to worse? All the science studies, all the political talking heads, and all the “king’s men” are going completely bonkers…
Its like they do not even try to sound smart. I was talking to the lady at the gas station….she was talking about how she never knew how bad it was until a couple of monthes ago….this might be just one example, but this entire cult is starting to go off the deep end.
Are they really fooling anyone besides themselves?
Didn’t Anthony refer to the app as “our app” within the past two days? (Or was that someone else?)
These guys can’t be bothered to take the time to check out the facts of a simple 99cent iPhone app….
…..We, nay, the world should take stock in what they have to say about something as complex and important as the science behind climate????
Carl Pope takes ignorance to new heights. He also ignores Nova’s rebuttal to Cook, here:
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/08/skeptics-iphone-app-endorsed-de-facto-by-critic/
You can rattle these guys without even trying hard, Anthony ; just the mention of your website puts the wind up them ! Keep up the great work.
And another thing. Mr. Pope must be experiencing some confusion between the terms skeptic and cynic. Now I won’t speak for everyone else visiting this site, but color me skeptical. I’m healthy enough that I can detect an occasional cynical twinge on one of my rare bad days and keep that well reigned in. Perhaps if the enviro crowd would start to reign in their own cynicism, they might start to see the true nature of the climate.
Nah …
“peterhodges says:
August 11, 2010 at 7:11 pm
yeah and i used to support and work with these people.
āenvironmentalismā has been completely hijacked by the global warming industryā¦you can almost forgive the average joe for being duped, but guys like carl pope know better. they are in it only for the money.
meanwhile real environmental and health issues go completely ignored.
what a travesty.”
I couldn’t have said it any clearer or better. May Carl Pope and the Sierra Club rot …….Anthony, I hope you as the burr, of the scientific method and open and truthful discussions, in the “backsides of the enviromental wackos” drive them crazy. Of course, they already are in that category –crazy — without any help from you. Thanks for setting them off.
Funny, when the Sierra Club attributes the app to Anthony, it probably boosts sales. Anthony should get a percentage, maybe?
Looking at that book cover, I realized just how much I miss Dubya.
God, do I miss dubya.
As an ardent liberal, I deeply admire and respect dubya, moreso than any president this century other than Reagan. Mark my words, dubya is an analog of Truman, who was less popular than dubya when he left office, yet is now one of our most respected presidents. Dubya not only upheld the genuine liberal ideal (as opposed to the phony-baloney radicalism currently masquerading as a pathetic parody of liberalism), but he was the most honest president of my lifetime (including Ford and Reagan). Like Ford, he embodied that rare combination of intelligence and common sense (and was therefore put down as unintelligent, usually by folks with half his brains and not one iota of his understanding). And he was twice the man his father was.
It kills me to see him assailed from both left and right. But history is with him; make no mistake about that.
It’s funny to see folks talking about the money in “global warming” when it seems their is just as much to be made on the “denier” side of the aisle.
According to Pope, der grosse General von Watts lit the match that made BP’s Deepwater Horizon drilling platform one with Nineveh and Tyre. Don’t believe Sancta Sierra-icus? But Pope himself has counted the defunct turtle eggs, if by “turtles” you mean Green Gang sycophants and by “eggs” you mean climate hysterics’ Goebbelian resort to iterating a Big Lie. The Pope Club’s virtual iPhone App for that bleats and squeaks at passersby from every newsstand.
remember ICE bought the Chicago Climate Exchange, the European Climate Exchange and the Chicago Climate Futures Exchange for $600 million earlier this year? well, it seems like the party is over and there’s a good ice hacking quote to boot:
11 Aug: Reuters: Michael Szabo: ICE cuts staff at Chicago Climate Exchange-sources
ICE to cut around half of 50-person CCX workforce
* 1st round of layoffs began July 23, more to come in autumn
* Sources cite U.S. climate inaction as main reason for cuts
* ICE collecting feedback on what to do with climate bourse
“ICE just came in one day and started hacking away … We were told the company was restructuring,” said one source, who declined to be named…
http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKLDE6791WI20100811
Now we are allegedly ‘climate cynics’?
This from an organization that shamelessly shakes down industries for hand outs even as they condemn them, corrupts the IPCC, positions its insiders to make billions trading worthless carbon credits, and poses as some holier-than-thou organization of good guys?
If Carl Pope wants to see a climate cynic, he only has to look in the mirror. Or if that disgusts him too much, he can just look at his board of directors.
Benjamin P. says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:16 pm
“Itās funny to see folks talking about the money in āglobal warmingā when it seems their is just as much to be made on the ādenierā side of the aisle.”
I wasn’t aware there was a ‘denier’ side. I’m know there is a skeptical point of view. I’m not sure about the money side either. You see any grant money coming this way? What money? If those people who developed the app are making any money, it pales in comparison to just the money given to the GISS alone, much less including the grants and other govt. agencies that hyperventilate with alarmism. We haven’t even touched on Pachy and Gore’s windfalls.
I used to belong and to the Audubon Society. quit when it started getting worse and worse, back in the 80’s any dissent was not allowed. Conservation is now confiscation.
Except for the elites that run big green..
Love this, Anthony you are in their Gourds like Sarah Palin is in the Democrat
party’s …
No I’m not a huge fan of Sarah’s but love the way she keeps them thinking about her.
Like Anthony probably is on Pope’s mind every time he looks at the sky, goes to the
bathroom, goes to bed..
hehehe…
“climate cynic”
you know, I kinda like that.
better than “denier”.
a step up from “skeptic”, I think.
I’m sure I’ve read that phrase about so many contradictions in so little space before. Recently.
pat says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:25 pm
It’s rough all over…
I spend more time on this site learning, I may get to posting something intelligent as well one day, but I just had to leave a note for Carl as well.
Actually, Anthony, a WUWT app that links to “Sea Ice Page” would probably be very popular! We could check for sea ice extent anytime we wanted!
Roger Knights says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:05 pm
Didnāt Anthony refer to the app as āour appā within the past two days? (Or was that someone else?)
=======
Don’t think so. He’s referred to it as the “Our Climate” app (its name). But never our (WUWT’s) Climate app. Perhaps some are pronounally challenged.
I often wonder why Carl Pope is not concerned about tangible environmental depredation, like light pollution, overgrown forests burning like torches (and fulfilling John Muir’s warning), dispersants in the Gulf, toxic waste dumping in the Hudson, precipitation enhancement (seeding) … just to name a few.
Whatever happened to watchdogging to ensure pollution is curbed and kept in check?
Everyone from the eco crowd to the Administration seems to have a tin ear when it comes to what the average American wants. There are reports now that Obama is sending Michelle Obama out to campaign for their people because because Commander Zero is being told to stay away.
They don’t realize how much of a liability Michelle Obama is — even the Chinese know about her.
Benjamin P.: To be more accurate, one side of the aisle supports the truth about the weather more than the other side.
My side believes that people and prosperity have no influence on the weather and should be left alone. Your side believes that people and prosperity causes bad weather and should be heavily controlled.
While visiting Carl Pope’s blog, I suggest readers check out his August 10, 2010 article called:
“How’s the Weather Treating YOU This Week, Carly ?”
http://sierraclub.typepad.com/carlpope/2010/08/hows-the-weather-treating-you-this-week-carly-.html
Quite a few catastrophic warming alarmist gems in there. After pointing out the heat wave in Russia, floods in Pakistan, & mudslides in China; Mr. Pope says:
“My point is different than that of climatologists who cite these events as evidence that manmade climate change is already happening around us. I’m not a climate scientists and I can’t make that call, although the overwhelming consensus is that any remaining doubts are gone. ”
“Well, the blunt fact is that it’s almost certain that global warming has already killed more people than terrorism — and it’s just getting going.”
– Roger Pielke Jr. has a great write up about this type of sensationalist writing:
“Journalists are drawn to the notion that greenhouse gas emissions increase the human toll from extreme events like Ulysses was drawn to the sirens. The connection between the two is made despite a robust scientific consensus — and lack of evidence to the contrary — that no signal beyond increasing societal vulnerability has been detected in increasing disaster losses, much less attributed to the effects of accumulating greenhouse gases.
Catastrophe Catnip:
http://rogerpielkejr.blogspot.com/2010/08/catastrophe-catnip.html
Let’s not turn frustration with the current activist administration into a nostalgic love fest for Dubya. Remember, it was “ABB” (anyone but Bush) Disorder that drove the public back into the arms of the Federal Reserve, Wall St. and Chicago Mafia machine that runs things, instead of looking for viable alternatives or taking action. This is how the system keeps humming along with an agenda that has less and less to do with caring for citizens, and more and more to do with war profiteering and fleecing the everyday bloke (and Sheila).
Minor correction on the above YouTube video: it was produced in Taiwan, not China.
The Sierra Club has had and still has a serious problem with truth, for a very long time now. The Canadian branch is no better. They have always been ideology driven. I can accept that but I can’t accept poor work, half truths or out and out untruths from them or anyone else. It is interesting to note that the former head of the Canadian branch is now a federal politician. To be exact, a candidate for Parliament representing the Green Party. Ms. May has run at least two times but has failed to be elected.
Publicity, deserved or not, is good Anthony. Just think, for a minute or two only, how much power you have. You get credit for all kinds of neat stuff that you had no part in; remember to remind everyone to spell it correctly. This also has an added bonus, in an effort to discredit you and WUWT they discredit themselves.
Are we talking about the same W who almost died after choking on a pretzel? The same W who unconstitutionally invaded a sovereign nation? Right.
Before I read a āletter to the Editorā I look to see who sent it.
Before I buy a book I like to know who wrote it.
Before a read a post (WUWT or other) I look to see who posted it.
(Many times commenters on WUWT respond as though Anthony wrote/posted something when it is clearly noted otherwise.)
Before I read a review of a product I look to see when it was written.
Now (read between the words, Mr. Pope), before I support an organization with my dues and contributions I like to know what they are up to and where the (my) money goes.
I didnāt examine the parentage of the āOur Climateā āiPhone app because Iām not an owner but do NOT recall thinking it was something from WUWT.
Pelicanman: Since I was never part of the AWBB movement, I guess I don’t have the concern that I should. I am of the Anyone But Patty Murray tribe and soon to be of the I Don’t Care Who Runs Against Him, Obama Sucks and Is Killing Our Country tribe.
Obama would be proud of you for reading the HuffPo blog – see the “Opposing View” section at the bottom of this page where Obama recommends HuffPo: http://www.appinsys.com/globalwarming/Acceleration.htm
HuffPo promotes AGW apocalypse – see: http://www.appinsys.com/globalwarming/HuffPoBlow.htm
Frank: How does one unconstitutionally invade another country? Are you saying we broke their constitution or they broke ours? Or is there some one world constitution that we don’t know about? Or is it all about the pretzel?
pyromancer76 says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:09 pm
ā¦ā¦.Anthony, I hope you as the burr, of the scientific method and open and truthful discussions, in the ābacksides of the enviromental wackosā drive them crazy.
That’s not a drive, that’s a putt.
James Sexton, your ignorance seethes.
April, I agree. Although I think you may have your sides confused.
Frank- you mean the same W. who really deserved the Nobel prize for the
work on African AIDS that has been cut buy the current administration…?
Not directly related to the topic at hand, but I wonder if Mr. Pope does a lot of travel as the Sierra Club President? Might he be a “Green Hypocrite”?
http://green.yahoo.com/blog/the_conscious_consumer/146/signs-of-a-green-hypocrite.html
Will Pope fix it over at HuffPo?
Noooooooo.
Will some of the commenters notice that?
Yeeeeeees.
“Are we talking about the same W who almost died after choking on a pretzel?”
Yeah, that’s the one. It just shows you how bad things have become in this “summer of recovery” when some here are nostalgic for the Bush Administration. It’s rather like the witch being better than the devil thing. And as bad as Bush was, he seems so much better now that we have the Obama Administration to compare him to.
Somebody above mentioned Harry S. Truman in reference to George W Bush. You are right, sir. If history is not witten by liberal {self snip} historians George W Bush will be revered as a great President.
[REPLY – Hear! Hear! Yet doesn’t matter who writes the history. Look at how desperately they have tried to pull down Reagan — and how they have so utterly failed. Dubya was one of the best presidents this country ever had. All of Truman’s strengths and none of his weaknesses. Dubya upheld true liberal values better and with greater courage than any politician alive today who thinks of himself as liberal. ~ Evan]
I dropped my Sierra Club membership. The club was dominated by a lawyer looking for farmers to sue.
Well, the fish stinks from the head downwards. So it shouldn’t be shocking that the most deluded and demagogic people can be found at the top – e.g. in the leadership of the Sierra Club. It shouldn’t be shocking but let me admit, I am still shocked when I read his article.
The quality of the “information” presented by this chap is just so incredibly lousy. Not only he doesn’t include a single sentence that would address a single point made by this excellent app for Apple devices – because he probably never saw anything that is inside; he is even not able to figure out who created or owns the app, not even the country where he and his company are located.
That’s like a refutation of the theory of relativity based on the claim that the relativity’s Mexican spiritual father (sorry, Anthony, I don’t claim you’re Mexican – it’s just an analogy haha) makes worse jokes than Charlie Chaplin showed last April. It’s just complete rubbish directed to complete morons.
Recall, Anthony, that the reviewers of the app had exchanges about the Miskolczi stuff. Pretty detailed exchanges about every piece and sometimes every sentence and every word that should be included or shouldn’t be included to help him make the app nearly perfect. Of course, the fearmongering “users” will never get to any of these points – and I was kind of sure that such things would never become an issue and that it would be completely counterproductive to restrict the creator’s freedom. They won’t even look at several “basic” parts of the application.
You know, we may find the Miskolczi stuff “probably incorrect”. But those AGW people are of course not totally scared “just” by Miskolczi: they are scared by any, arbitrarily incontrovertible piece of information included in the app. Every rudimentary or quantitative fact about the climate is lethally threatening for their movement because every single part of their movement is based on downright lies and obfuscation of the key important data.
They just know that the app contains the key truth for the debate and the truth is always inconvenient for these people, so they think how to sling mud at the app using ad hominem attacks and intimidation. Rational arguments have never been the pillar of the likes of the Sierra Club; bullying and behind-the-scene political tricks are.
Keith W. says:
August 11, 2010 at 10:03 pm
“Not directly related to the topic at hand, but I wonder if Mr. Pope does a lot of travel as the Sierra Club President? Might he be a āGreen Hypocriteā?”
As to that, Wiki reports
“Pope recently expressed support for the Pickens Plan, an effort by T. Boone Pickens to reduce America’s dependence on foreign oil. Pickens, a billionaire oil investor, Republican, and financier of conservative causes, took Pope, via his $60 million private plane, to his ranch in west Texas, where Pickens and a group of investors plan to invest $12 billion in wind turbines.”
I failed to find a reference to a private plane that runs on wind turbines.
“Climate cynic” implies that we know CAGW is as bad or worse than the IPPC says, but we profit directly or are in the pay of those who will profit from the prevention of action. In other words, we are not fools, we are criminals.
Are we talking about the same W who almost died after choking on a pretzel?
And this is significant because it is a well known fact that only the unintelligent choke on pretzels.
The same W who unconstitutionally invaded a sovereign nation? Right.
Him and around forty other nations. (And I’d advise you to bone up on your constitutional law lest you fall into further error.) The ones that stayed out were more likely than not snout-deep in the megadeath directly resulting from the Food-for-Oil scandal. (“Jacques, Jacques, Jacques Chirac! How many kids did you starve in Iraq?”)
Of course, there are still those who would have preferred Saddam’s slo-mo genocide to continue indefinitely. And Saddam, having eventually stopped a well deserved bullet, to be followed by a godawful, unrestrained civil war a hundred times worse than what we’ve seen (with no US, UK+allies to hold the factions apart). As opposed to a functioning Muslim democracy in the very heart of the fertile crescent.
But some folks fail to think these things through.
How anyone with a heart and a brain could possibly have had any moral reservations concerning the invasion of Iraq after the mass graves were uncovered (a yet-continuing process), is something that continues to elude me.
We’ve enough problems in the UK with Greenpiss, Fiends of the Earth and World WildLies Fund and the RSPB (Royal Society for Prostitution of Birds)
Don’t think the SeeError Club made it here yet. A small mercy.
But the trouble with all these amateur bunny hugging groups is that they shamelessly milk money from little old ladies who genuinely care about wildlife and nature and cynically fill their heads with a load of junk about the developed world’s wicked use of reliable and affordable energy. The people who have hijacked these bird spotters clubs work to an deeply political and cynical agenda.
Witness the RSPB who always bleat about the allegedly endangered raptors but who take Ā£10 from BigWind everytime they get one of their Members to sign up to a “Green” electricity tariff.
see also
http://jamesdelingpole.com/blog/anyone-up-for-a-spot-of-red-kite-shooting-1084/
And, of course, the Government in the UK (not to mention the real Government in Brussels) pours millions into the pockets of Greenpiss, WWF and Fiends of the Earth whilst slashing funds for rebuilding decrepit schools!
Funny how free markets work considering iPhone is an Apple product and Al Gore currently sits as a director on Apple’s board. Absolutely wonderful.
Which makes me think, as a precaution, I wonder if Aeris Systems would produce the same app for Google’s Android system (just in case……… well you know I mean).
The Pope should read the Bishop’s book.
UN sanctions under Clinton killed about one million Iraqi children according to UNICEF. Far fewer civilians died under Bush.
Why did Clinton want sanctions? Because he was convinced that Saddam had WMD.
Isn’t it great watching the left rewrite history?
[REPLY – Yes, and amusing. But fear not. The faddish left of today has no staying power. A bunch of unliberal, anti-intellectual, third-rate second-handers. Chuckleheaded Chicken Littles. Their kind never survives the test of time. To quote Jenner, They’re thin, boys. As thin as piss on a hot rock. (And tiresome, whinging bores, to boot.) ~ Evan]
I am so proud to be a member of the WUWT climate science community that has greatly contributed in the destruction of the $trillion global governance scam. It’s a wonder I haven’t been banned from this highly influential blog, came close a few times rattling a lot of cages, but I survived and the carbon tax scam died. We Win!
History will remember Anthony Watts and maybe ctm for helping save the world from global economic enslavement to the very few global elite. I’m just glad I could do a little on my part to help.
Reply: I occasionally look over your older comments and delete many of them that the other moderators didn’t realize were as horrific as they are. I think it’s time to look again. ~ ctm
Popes are not concerned with facts for they have faith in their dogmatic beliefs so pesky facts have no chance with them. When faith based belief determines a person’s reality to the exclusion of actual verifiable hard evidence and the facts of life in the objective reality of Nature they got serious, ahem, delusions bouncing around the interior of their brain skull case.
Typo in first line – a prominent solider in …</i?
Frank: August 11, 2010 at 9:37 pm
Are we talking about the same W who almost died after choking on a pretzel? The same W who unconstitutionally invaded a sovereign nation? Right.
Give it a rest, Frank. Libs call anything they oppose “unconstitutional” — I heard one refer to the Second Amendment that way — and find an excuse to do inexcusable things by claiming Constitutionality, but without ever citing a reference.
“Bad organisations are like cess pits, the big lumps always float to the top.”
Seems this old adage is applicable to the environment distortion industry in the US.
These morons have a fool as a head. This man is shamelessly stupid. What are is credentials to be in charge of an environmental organization? Idiot Totalitarian? Hmmm. There was a book about that. Aha.
Alice In Wonderland.
The Red Queen. Fits perfectly.
evanmjones: August 11, 2010 at 10:44 pm
And, Saddam having eventually stopped a well deserved bullet…
Nup. He took a six-foot fall from a twelve-foot platform.
And so have about two hundred other dirtbags who were either caught setting up IEDs or assembling them — in schoolyards, bazaars, and along city streets — over the past couple of years.
[REPLY – How well I know. The bullet ref. is what would have happened to him had the US and allies not invaded: Saddam’s eventual assassination (probably after years of drawn-out genocide) — followed immediately by an inevitable horrific bloodbath. ~ Evan]
Frank, you are constitutionally a dullard.
“Is this the same Frank who could not tell time until 7th Grade?”
That is the extent of your cogitation.
If people like Pope ever bothered to be persuaded by reason, then they would no longer be Alarmists.
pat: August 11, 2010 at 8:25 pm
ICE to cut around half of 50-person CCX workforce
* 1st round of layoffs began July 23, more to come in autumn
* Sources cite U.S. climate inaction as main reason for cuts
* ICE collecting feedback on what to do with climate bourse
āICE just came in one day and started hacking away ā¦ We were told the company was restructuring,ā said one source, who declined to be namedā¦
Oh, noes! Does this mean the ICE in Chicago is in a death spiral?
Steve, Evan, Stan, EvanMJones,
You guys make me proud. I saw today that GW and Laura surprised a group of returning soldiers today/yesterday at DFW. Very classy act.
[REPLY – How well I know. The bullet ref. is what would have happened to him had the US and allies not invaded: Saddam’s eventual assassination…]
*memo to self: examine sentence structures for future conditional tense before commenting and revealing self as forgetful idiot*
REPLY – Heck, if you even know what the future conditional tense is, you’re well ahead of the game. ~ Evan
Huff Post has now replaced the word “released” with “promoted” – entirely changing the nature of the article. This is a sneaky edit – without noting it is a correction and without changing the time stamp of the article. I thought the Huff Post had more class than this. And I think Ariana needs to be made aware of what her editors are doing. If anyone can get a note through the staff to her – please do.
From his comments I would pre suppose that Mr Pope is an ardent reader of WUWT so maybe he would like to add to the comments section?
Benjamin P. says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:16 pm
Itās funny to see folks talking about the money in āglobal warmingā when it seems their is just as much to be made on the ādenierā side of the aisle.
What? There’s money to be made in “Denial of Global Warming”? My goodness – I had better get my hand out for some…
Mind you accept the CO2 is a GHG, I also accept that there was a level of warming in the 19th and 20th century.
But you seem to be a man made global warming (MMGW) believer. Riddle me this than – just what are the specific falsification criteria for the MMGW concept?
For example, Einsteins relativity theory predicted that light would bend around a star. This novel phenomenon was empirically observed during the transit of venus in 1919 (if memory serves). if the phenomenon had not been observed, the theory would have been disproved.
So what observations if they were observed would disprove MMGW?
I note that the GCMs predict a troposheric hot spot – which has not been found in the empirical data. I note also that the ERBE and CERES satellite data is also in contradiction to MMGW theory.
So we have two real world pieces of empirical evidence that show that MMGW theory is wrong…
Do you realise that if your “scientific conversation” is limited to ((Theory + Models) – Empirical Tests) then you are not actually testing your theory.
If you can’t admit to the risk of falsification – you are clinging to dogma, and immersing yourself in a pseudo scientific cult.
Empirical test trumps all theory.
Bill Tuttle says:
August 12, 2010 at 12:13 am
pat: August 11, 2010 at 8:25 pm
ICE to cut around half of 50-person CCX workforce
* 1st round of layoffs began July 23, more to come in autumn
* Sources cite U.S. climate inaction as main reason for cuts
* ICE collecting feedback on what to do with climate bourse
āICE just came in one day and started hacking away ā¦ We were told the company was restructuring,ā said one source, who declined to be namedā¦
Oh, noes! Does this mean the ICE in Chicago is in a death spiral?
Maybe the CCX will get a bailout – will it be deemed to big (important???) to fail?
I just downloaded the app and glanced through the information with critical eyes. My conclusion so far is that I think it’s a very careful and modest presentation, very far from “misinformation”. The only item I found which I thought was one-sided, was the presentation of the non-warming since 2002 with the help of the HADCRUT data ending in 2009, since both GISS and UAH data tell a different story, with a 2010 spike that’s close to 1998 even for UAH. On the flip side of the coin, they don’t discuss the fact that all land data sets may be overestimating the century-scale warming trend, but more or less take the HADCRUT data for granted.
The comments section takes Carl Pope apart. Here is a taste:
“WUWT just took you to task. Carl Pope, are you going to admit your error or ignore the facts?”
“WUWT did not produce this app. Please do your homework in the future. You might, for starters, check your own links.”
“Please do a guest post on WUWT. It would be most illuminating.
However, do be absolutely certain of all your “facts” and be prepared to cite credible references, you would not like to be shown to be a complete ignoramus and purveyor of half-truths, would you? ”
“My goodness, Carl, at least get your facts straight before opening your mouth and inserting your foot. And do not take the advice of these folks who are asking you to post over at WUWT.”
http://sierraclub.typepad.com/carlpope/2010/08/apple-fools-day.html
we should feel sorry for these people. I live an internet life – I’m online all day and I work with clients internationally and when I take a break I check joNova and WUWT etc.
These guys don’t – they work their butts off in competitive business attending meetings here, filing report pages here etc etc.
they don’t get to smell the roses, if they did they’d realise their roses have no smell.
I’d like to feel sorry for them but that would be patronising.
A nice discussion of AUMF in the comments here:
http://www.classicalvalues.com/archives/2007/10/ron_paul_on_rac.html
And of course here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War
On Jefferson’s inauguration as president in 1801, Yussif Karamanli, the Pasha (or Bashaw) of Tripoli demanded $225,000 from the new administration. (In 1800, Federal revenues totaled a little over $10 million.) Putting his long-held beliefs into practice, Jefferson refused the demand. Consequently, in May of 1801, the Pasha declared war on the United States, not through any formal written documents, but by cutting down the flagstaff in front of the U.S. Consulate. Morocco, Algiers, and Tunis soon followed their ally in Tripoli.
In response, Jefferson sent a group of frigates to defend American interests in the Mediterranean, and informed Congress. Although Congress never voted on a formal declaration of war, they did authorize the President to instruct the commanders of armed vessels of the United States to seize all vessels and goods of the Pasha of Tripoli “and also to cause to be done all such other acts of precaution or hostility as the state of war will justify.”
So there is precedent (St. Jefferson no less) on Bush’s side.
But this is rather far afield from Climate.
But I can get my friends on the right in a tizzy if I ask: “Do you believe drugs cause addiction?” Well there is scant evidence for it and plenty against. So much so that even the NIDA has said: addiction is a genetic disease.
Too much faith in the world and not enough reason. From all sides of every question.
I slept with faith and found a corpse in my arms on awakening; I drank and danced all night with doubt and found her a virgin in the morning.
o Source: The Book of Lies
——
Exxon: “(how about $100 million for Stanford’s Global Climate and Energy Project, and $600 million for Biofuels research).”
“The US government spent $79 billion on climate research and technology since 1989 – to be sure, this funding paid for things like satellites and studies, but it’s 3,500 times as much as anything offered to sceptics.”
“The $79 billion figure does not include money from other western governments, private industry, and is not adjusted for inflation.”
“According to the World Bank, turnover of carbon trading reached $126 billion in 2008. PointCarbon estimates trading in 2009 was about $130 billion.”
http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/stories/s2835581.htm
Where’s my oil check????
Leon Brozyna says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:08 pm (Edit)
And another thing. Mr. Pope must be experiencing some confusion between the terms skeptic and cynic.
I’m a climate cynic. I just *know* it’s going to rain on August bank holiday. š
“Climate Cynic” – like that. I just don’t think this climate is good enough to make it. Call yourself a real climate? Now Venus, that’s a real climate. lolz.
LOL a climate disinformation app containing damaging Orwellian language? That coming from someone literally rewriting current events as ordered by Orwell’s Big Brother
Are you sure? I may be mistaken but I thought Taiwan’s official name is Republic of China (ROC). Taiwan has no seat at the United Nations, having lost it to China in 1971. Repeated attempts to regain representation at the UN have been blocked. Taiwan has formal diplomatic ties with only two dozen countries. It has no diplomatic representation in the USA.
References:
“Government Information Office, Republic of China (Taiwan)”
BBC Country Profile
CIA World Factbook
BBC News | ASIA-PACIFIC | Taiwan’s identity crisis
Leon Brozyna says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:08 pm
And another thing. Mr. Pope must be experiencing some confusion between the terms skeptic and cynic. Now I wonāt speak for everyone else visiting this site, but color me skeptical. Iām healthy enough that I can detect an occasional cynical twinge on one of my rare bad days and keep that well reigned in. Perhaps if the enviro crowd would start to reign in their own cynicism, they might start to see the true nature of the climate.
Nah ā¦
=======================
At least he didn’t use the “D” word !!!
Guys guys guys!!
Lets call it a day on the Gee Dubbajah crap and liberal/conservative bashing please!
This site is not about that I think (I certainly do not come here for that).
Lets respect each others political viewpoint and lets talk about the science, not about OT political bull.
Thanks!!
Benjamin P. says:
August 11, 2010 at 10:02 pm
“James Sexton, your ignorance seethes.”
I see the methods of debate from the CAGW crowd are still in pure form. Benjamin, quit taking the handbook so literal, it doesn’t really win debate points. If that is your best retort, then by default you’ve given up in the discussion and concede my point. Thanks. But, now that I see the level of debate we are engaged in, and just to show you I’m not too proud to get my hands dirty, I’ll attempt to properly show you how to throw slights in the conversation that resonate with other readers.
Is the CAGW/CC crowd raiding the 6th grade playground bullies to argue their points now? Sis, that doesn’t work after the rest age past puberty. And regardless of how many times you fail your exams in the 6th grade, eventually, you’ll be advanced to junior-high. No child left behind, remember? Now, Ben, I know it is a scary prospect, but, us adults find that children become better adapted to reality when forced to interact in different social settings and exposed to thoughts a bit more challenging than rote memory work. So, you should really try to apply yourself and when you do, I think you’ll find you can really get promoted to the 7th grade on your own merits, you just have to try a bit harder than what you’ve previously done.
Ben, do you see the difference in the insults? Other than simply stating someone is ignorant, (which many will dismiss upon reading the statement, which takes about a second) you should go into deeper detail. Whereas, my retort will take you considerably longer to read, depending upon your level of English comprehension. Heck, for you, my insults may take you all day to consider! Have a nice day, and comeback when you have a modicum of substance to discuss. Thanks.
tallbloke says, August 12, 2010 at 2:50 am:
Leon Brozyna says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:08 pm (Edit)
And another thing. Mr. Pope must be experiencing some confusion between the terms skeptic and cynic.
Iām a climate cynic. I just *know* itās going to rain on August bank holiday. š
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep – no doubt about it, rain it will!
But isn’t that being a ‘weather cynic’, rather than a climate cynic?
How are you all coping with the tragedy around Lake Michigan and where can we Aussies send aid and donations?
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/climate-reports/7479-us-government-in-massive-new-global-warming-scandal-noaa-disgraced
Hasn’t been a word in the media over here about the death toll….hey wait a minute…it’s not April 1st over there is it?
—
At 7:39 PM on 11 August, Max Hugoson had written:
“Oh yes, thatās right! In the mid 1980ā²s they had their Colorado Lodge CLOSED DOWN by the Colorado health department.
“Why? Because they had delayed to the point of ‘obviously we donāt intend to do this’, putting in a proper sewage treatment system for the lodge.”
Oh, damn. So that’s where that National Lampoon Lemmings (1973) song “Colorado” came from.
I shoulda known.
—
Benjamin P. says:
August 11, 2010 at 8:16 pm
“Itās funny to see folks talking about the money in āglobal warmingā when it seems their is just as much to be made on the ādenierā side of the aisle.”
Still waiting for my check, Benjamin P. ;o)
Maybe I’m not getting a check because I’m not a climate change “denier”.
I will state clearly for the record that all evidence, peer reviewed or not, supports the conclusion that the climate is changing; always has and always will until the sun engulfs the earth. There is no belief required for that position. The facts bear it out.
Ah, well. I seem to be barking up the wrong tree. Maybe I should write to some climate change “believer” organization for my check.
The Sierra Club keeps sending me donation requests. And what do they do with money donated to them? Do they help the earth? No. The Sierra Club was running an ad in North Carolina against the incumbent Senator Richard Burr. It kept talking about how Senator Burr was tied to Big Oil and was using the Gulf oil spill situation to impugn his character.
Whether or not I like Richard Burr or not is irrelevant. What is relevant is that people donate money to the Sierra Club thinking it will go to help clean up the earth and instead it goes to advance their political ideologies. That ain’t right. As far as I am concerned, the Sierra Club is part of Big Environment, which has less scruples and is richer than Big Oil.
The quickest way to make someone really angry is to be right.
The only climate cynics in this issue are those promoting climate hysteria over CO2 and the end of the world, even as they enrich themselves from the hysteria they promote.
Benjamin P,
Bunk on you.
There is orders of magnitude more money being made by climate cynics promoting apocalyptic hysteria over CO2 than being made by skeptics pointing out the flaws and fallacies.
Show me the multi-million dollar institutes of skeptics. Show me the equivalent of the Sierra Club promoting climate hysteria with a multi-hundreds of millions dollar budget.
Show me the PBS specials showing the fallacies of AGW, funded by grants from ExxoMobil and billion dollar foundations.
Show me the university departments receiving millions per year in govt. grants to teach climate skepticism.
False equivalency on this issue is not simply wrong, it is annoyingly wrong.
AGW promotion has made a generation of fear mongers rich.
Pope is just a convenient poster boy for the sort of ignorant cynicism behind climate hysteria.
observa says:
August 12, 2010 at 5:04 am
“How are you all coping with the tragedy around Lake Michigan and where can we Aussies send aid and donations?
http://www.climatechangefraud.com/climate-reports/7479-us-government-in-massive-new-global-warming-scandal-noaa-disgraced
Hasnāt been a word in the media over here about the death tollā¦.hey wait a minuteā¦itās not April 1st over there is it?”
I went to your link and read your story and endeavored to find the data, as opposed to the .gif files offered. Admittedly, I only spent about 10 min. of company time to find the data, but to no avail. However, I did get this note when clicking on an image file in the form of a pop-up!……
“NOTICE: Due to degradation of a satellite sensor used by this mapping product, some images have exhibited extreme high and low surface temperatures. Please disregard these images as anomalies. Future images will not include data from the degraded satellite and images caused by the faulty satellite sensor will be/have been removed from the image archive.”
And, I couldn’t find any of the extreme temps reported. There should probably be someone with more sleuth-like abilities look into this.
One of the most simple and useful things you can do in this silly AGW game is to Google the person involved to find out what their educational background is. Carl Pope is said to have a summa cum laude degree from Harvard College in 1967. No mention of what his major was. I’ll bet it was something like English or History but I’m not sure. Carol Browner has a degree in English from U of Miami. That really qualified her to run the EPA or be in charge of AGW for Obama. Whenever someone has a degree in anything ending is “Studies”, Environmental Studies, Black Studies, Gender Studies, you know they didn’t really have a rigorous time in college. Those kinds of degrees generally mean they couldn’t hack Math, Chemistry, and Physics. Look at Al Gore, Barbara Boxer, Waxman, Markey and others in Congress pushing cap and trade, etc. Scientific morons all.
Sceptic? Cynic? Insensitive? Inflexible? Out of sorts? Ticked off? D-word? I think that these same guys were in my fourth grade class! The same guys learned terms like stupid, retard, jerk, etc back in the fourth grade. The terms change but it’s the same crowd.
Observa,
We’re not swimming in the lake. The usually cool to frigid waters are way too hot. You never know when your going to hit a 440 degree F patch. Of course, the steam’ll get you before the water does. As side benefits, the heat is killing off the asian carp and delaying subsidized windmill installation. š
The Puffington Host is always good for a laugh, though you risk losing some brain cells if you read too much of it. As someone pointed out above, the saddest thing about the enviros fixating on CAGW is that they are missing both the things that need attention and all of the progress we have made in recent decades. Not to mention losing credibilty they will need if they ever again embrace a real issue.
Allencic says:
August 12, 2010 at 6:38 am
Look at Al Gore, Barbara Boxer, Waxman, Markey and others in Congress pushing cap and trade, etc. Scientific morons all.
Anthony and mods, I know this isn’t “playing nice”, but my better angel can’t stop me from commenting: “In Barbara Boxer’s case (and maybe the others), the word scientific isn’t necessary.”
lol, from the Huffington Post story, at the bottom of the article, now appears this…..”Editor’s Note: An earlier version of this post claimed that Watt’s Up With That released the iPhone app “Our Climate”. The app was released by Aeris Systems, and not Watt’s Up With That.”
Oh, the humanity of it.
Bill Tuttle says:
August 12, 2010 at 12:21 am
[REPLY – How well I know. The bullet ref. is what would have happened to him had the US and allies not invaded: Saddam’s eventual assassination…]
*memo to self: examine sentence structures for future conditional tense before commenting and revealing self as forgetful idiot*
REPLY ā Heck, if you even know what the future conditional tense is, youāre well ahead of the game. ~ Evan
The “future conditional tense” is what the traveler said when he landed in Boston, got in a cab, and asked the cabbie “Where can you get scrod around here?”
“I went to your link and read your story and endeavored to find the data, as opposed to the .gif files offered.”
Yes James as you’ve noticed they’ve quickly removed the offending gif culprit so you need to click on the blue link in the article titled-
(Click here if CoastWatch link does not work or disappears)
Then you’ll see the 604 degree temp in the lower LH corner they’re talking about as well as top right temps in the 400+ range.
Notice that these offending temps are quite isolated and sporadic and if collated by computer as is likely (they weren’t originally corrected on the gif temp image which indicates that’s most likely) they would impact severely on any average surface temperature derived from them. The further point to note is that when a satellite sensor turns faulty as they claim what does it do? It reads high (and massively so) just as Anthony discovered with the all the useless surface stations.
There’s a global pattern here with lots of half-baked uni grads being turned out of left green unis, that have been spoon fed on computers and computerised stats to believe everything that comes out of them is Gospel, when older, wiser, manual hands know all about garbage in garbage out. It’s like a mate of mine who does payroll for a large Public Service Dept knows only too well. All the current crop of GenX and Yers leave everything to the computer run, whereas he has a feel for the data and skims the printout columns looking for the anomalies and flags them. As he says he can rely on 4 out of 5 of his flagged items coming up trumps with major input errors upon closer inspection of an individual’s pay. The other 1 in 5 is an explainable anomaly. You get someone’s pay wrong and there’s Hell to pay (him not the underlings) whereas with Michigan surface temps? Get the big picture here folks?
I think we’ve really got the blighters worried. The truth is at last getting through. I’m sitting here raising a glass every last one of us.
I guess “climate-cynics” is a step froward from “denier”. Do we owe the media a golf-clap?
So, unlike my Payroll mate no-one could possibly check up on all the anomalous satellite temperature transponder readings going way back but now we know they occur AND read massively high when faulty, so what does that leave? The $64000 question for all the experts gathering and compiling such data and their averages – Show us the computer check codes you used in all your compilations to detect and reject all these anomalous and high satellite temperature readings? Whaddya reckon their answers will be given the Michigan Coastwatch yanked that anomalous temp gif the moment it was drawn to their attention? An educated guess is oops and global oops!!!!
stevengoddard says:
August 11, 2010 at 11:16 pm
“UN sanctions under Clinton killed about one million Iraqi children according to UNICEF. Far fewer civilians died under Bush.”
Good grief!!! One million children??? Thats an awfull lot of tragedies. I had no idea the number was that high.
Actually I didn’t notice all the weasel words(with respect to the yanked but captured surface temp gif) in this so can someone who knows how capture it quick for evidence as this statement might be really BIG-
āNOTICE: Due to degradation of a satellite sensor used by this mapping product, some images have exhibited extreme high and low surface temperatures. Please disregard these images as anomalies. Future images will not include data from the degraded satellite and images caused by the faulty satellite sensor will be/have been removed from the image archive.ā
“some images have exhibited extreme high and low surface temperatures” not by my reckoning were there any extreme low temps but in any case their computer check codes would be able to identify all such anomalies presumably. As for degraded satellites what do they have to do with it? The faulty transponders yes but the reject data runs will show exactly whether or not faulty transponders (or degraded satellites) read only high or high and low and by what magnitude of error. These satellite temp experts have some quick explaining to do and my advice to them is remember East Anglia boys and girls and no cover ups or else you’re headed for Dr Jones territory.
Frank: August 11, 2010 at 9:37 pm:
Are we talking about the same W who almost died after choking on a pretzel? The same W who unconstitutionally invaded a sovereign nation? Right.
No, the same W whose completely legal post 9/11 National Security Policy – for example, as legally implemented by the U.S. Congress in the form of the “AUMF in Iraq”, and backed by the U.N. Res. 1441 “serious consequences”, ultimately stemming directly from the Gulf War I Iraqi Surrender Agreements specifically concerning WMD inspections in Iraq – in toto resulted in the Bush Policy’s perfect record in preventing further 9/11-like attacks upon America as compared to the previous “crime not war” based Policy, to which the Obama Administration now apparently more and more wants to return.
Right?
The Sierra Club, like most environmental organizations, are structured like the watermellon: green on the outside, red on the inside!
@ JPeden:
J, all correct but –
“A blind man will not thank you for a looking-glass.” Thomas Fuller
Don Penim says:
August 11, 2010 at 9:24 pm
“……like Ulysses was drawn to the sirens”
My British Shothair Blue Cat who rejoices in the name Odysseus would like to point out that it was he who encountered the three sirens on his way home from Troy and consequently considers Ulysses to be a mythological lightweight in comparison. Meeiaow!
By hte way, it costs something like $700,000 *per day* to keep the Greenpeace lights on.
And these huge corporations and ultra-wealthy people ahve jsut the money to make it happen!
Greenpeace is heavily funded by many foundations, among which are the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation, the Rockefeller Brothers Fund, the Bauman Family Foundation, the Blue Moon Fund, the Columbia Foundation, the Compton Foundation, the Minneapolis Foundation, the Nathan Cummings Foundation, the Scherman Foundation, Ted Turner’s Turner Foundation. The organization has also drawn support from numerous celebrities, including singers Sting, Tom Jones, and Elton John, who have sponsored its “save the rainforest” campaigns.
kwik: August 12, 2010 at 10:04 am
Good grief!!! One million children??? Thats an awfull lot of tragedies. I had no idea the number was that high.
That may even be on the low side. Things were pretty grim for the average Iraqis while they lived under sanctions.
Looks like Carl Pope doesn’t know how negative feedbacks or oscillators operate. Regrettable, but i guess 95% of the population don’t. Including Rasmus Benestad from RC who in a recent posting over there posited that positive feedbacks lead to oscillations while negative feedbacks lead to no oscillations. When even the people whose day job is scientist-impersonator can’t get it halfway right, who would blame poor Carl when talking about something he doesn’t know anything about.
Since HuffPo has now corrected the article, will you do the same?
Anthony, my apologies but I invited Carl Pope on your behalf as below.
Carl, my apologies for what may seem to be a slightly belligerent tone to my previous post concerning your statements about the āOur Climateā iphone app, and linking it erroneously to WUWT and Anthony Watts.
However, as several other people have said, I do believe that you should accept the offer made to you by us, on behalf of Anthony Watts, and submit an article to WUWT.
I realise you are or must be an extremely busy person, your position as President of the Sierra Club would guarantee that no doubt, so to help you decide on a topic for your article, may I may the following suggestion.
We keep hearing the claim that there have been āthousands of species extinctions caused by Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warmingā
As the President of the Sierra Club, I feel that if you were to submit an article detailing just four of those extinctions, as it is never stated animal or plant, just species, perhaps two plants, and two animals (you can have one reptile in there) that have become extinct since the year 2000, solely from the effects of CAGW.
As the CAGW hypothesis is based entirely on the increased level of CO2 in the atmosphere, your article will show that these extinctions can be physically traced to the rise of CO2 in the atmosphere.
Further, your article will provide links or references to all data used to support your article. Computer model results are not data or proof.
I am sure that with the thousands of Sierra Club members help, you will be able to prepare a brief, 1000 ā 1500 word article, plus all supporting references within a month from this date.
I await your submission to WUWT.
kwik says:
August 12, 2010 at 10:04 am
“One million children??? Thats an awfull lot of tragedies. I had no idea the number was that high.”
Yeah, and then Madeleine Albright said it was worth it; well, actually, she said 500,000 were worth it, because that was the number she was quoted in the interview. Gore was one of the biggest hawks on Iraq in the Clinton administration (Senator from Likud and all). I always find it amusing and sad when people who are supposedly antiwar think Gore would have been any better than Bush on that score.
^^^ ooops, sorry, it has been withdrawn from the page. damn, and I was so hoping to read his article too
I agree with Evan’s comments above. As an Australian with a detached attitude to US party politics, I am totally sick of efforts like Pope’s attempt to trash-talk Bush Jr to peddle eco-quackery. When I talk about global warming down here, listeners are startled to learn that Bush Jr was doing a better job of reducing CO2 emissions than the EU – that is just empirical fact. Anti-Americanism here has reached pathological proportions, due to the likes of Pope, Moore, Gore, the US MSM, Hollywood, and that false prophet Jim Wallis of the religious left. This self-hating crew give their country a bad name abroad. Australian indulgers in this prejudice have usually never heard of the Marshall Plan. Nor are they aware of the evidence – not conclusive but significant – that Saddam moved his WMDs to Syria before the war. Nor do they realise that Duelfer in his CIA report said that Saddam fully intended to recreate his WMD stockpile as soon as he could, and that this was all too imminent due to the corruption of the oil-for-food scandal. Yes, I’m glad Obama got elected as the first non-white president, I have been a Martin Luther King Jr fan since youth; but the time must come when Obama is judged by the same criteria as Dubya, no more and no less. I expect Dubya like Truman to be treated more kindly by history than by (Green) Popes.
Well many many years ago, I was a member of the Sierra Club; and even went on one of their Hi-Lite trips in the Sierra, and that was most enjoyable.
Then one day I went to a party at the home of some Sierra Club Official (after doing some trail clearing) in Woodside California.
I think that was the biggest pile of Redwood lumber I had ever encountered outside of a lumber yard.
That’s when I severed my connection to the club.
As for confusing Skeptic and Cynic; certainly not here. Yes I quite often am a cynic; darn hard to not be at times; but I am definitely NOT a “skeptic”, re climate. I’m quite certain that the “science” of AGW is quite wrong; which doesn’t mean I don’t think we’ve had warming; just as we now are experiencing cooling; it also doesn’t mean I don’t think humans influence the environment; and it doesn’t mean I deny the Greenhouse effect; specially not when it comes to water vapor; but not even when it comes to CO2 also; and of course Ozone is a thorn in our sides, as we evidently need it to smack down some of the solar UV; yet it also is a GHG and right in the middle of our sacred atmospheric window.
But all that GHG stuff is somewhat irrelevent; as is the 0.1% TSI cyclic change.
IT’S THE WATER !! (in all its three phases)
Thanks, David. Actually, I don’t care that much about Saddam’s WMDs or lack thereof. It was the creeping holocaust that was ongoing in Iraq at the time, and that had noting to do with WMD.
We did eventually dig up c. 500 of the old-style WMD types, FWIW, but I was wild to see Iraq invaded the instant he resumed the massacre of the South Shia and Kurds after Gulf War I. Delaying that invasion to 2003 cost at least a million entirely innocent Iraqi lives. To those who say dubya was “just looking for an excuse” to invade Iraq from the time he was elected, I can only say, “I should damnwell hope so.”
I never needed conservative reasons for invading Iraq. I found the liberal reasons for the invasion to be far more compelling. We enabled the Iraq killing fields by doing nothing. When they were discovered, Tony Blair said, with scathing wisdom, “Doing nothing IS doing something.” Some of the most deadly war crimes are crimes of inaction.
david elder: August 12, 2010 at 4:17 pm
Nor are they aware of the evidence ā not conclusive but significant ā that Saddam moved his WMDs to Syria before the war.
I was hoping that it wasn’t just me who knew about that. The Iranians scarfed up a few items, too — Quds made an incursion onto Kirkuk Air Base and into two locations east of Baghdad and made off with at least three L-39s being modified into nuke-capable UAVs, and they came in *knowing* what they were looking for, because they brought low-boy trailers with them.
Warren: August 12, 2010 at 2:33 pm
Anthony, my apologies but I invited Carl Pope on your behalf as below.
“However, as several other people have said, I do believe that you should accept the offer made to you by us, on behalf of Anthony Watts, and submit an article to WUWT…We keep hearing the claim that there have been ‘thousands of species extinctions caused by Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming.’
As the President of the Sierra Club, I feel that if you were to submit an article detailing just four of those extinctions, as it is never stated animal or plant, just species, perhaps two plants, and two animals (you can have one reptile in there) that have become extinct since the year 2000, solely from the effects of CAGW.”
I’m not Anthony, nor do I play him on TV, but I think that is an excellent suggestion, Warren. Personally, I’d be satisfied with just a list of the species they *claim* have gone extinct since 2000 solely from the effects of CAGW.
^^ Thanks Bill, unfortunately he keeps deleting the post, 4 times so far I think, I just keep reposting it
another POPE we will all be saved from a firery death