Here is some new material based on the Band 13 and Band 16 radiance data files for the CONUS region from the GOES East geostationary satellite. Each archived data file is a 2500 column by 1500 row array of numerical values in units of mW m-2 sr-1 (cm-1)-1 (in words, this means milliwatts per square meter per steradian per wavenumber.)
Band 13 is the “10.3 micron Clean Longwave IR Window” channel. 2 km resolution, 5-minute update.
Band 16 is the “13.3 micron CO2 Longwave – IR” channel. 2 km resolution, 5-minute update.
For this exercise, the first of the 12 data files in each 1-hour block of archived files was downloaded and processed into a series of images and histograms. There are 168 files at these 1-hour sampling intervals running from 7-1-2026 at 0000Z to 7-7-2026 at 2300Z. 7 full days of summer conditions. The images and histograms from the Band 13 and Band 16 data are merged into a set of 168 sequential side-by-side pairs for ease of time-matched comparison. The files are named numerically in time series order.
In the folder below, there are subfolders with the images and histograms. In the main folder, there is the custom color scale and two plots. One plot gives the mean radiance for the entire region, by hour, for Band 13 and for Band 16. The other plot expands the vertical scale and shows the mean, the 5% quantile, and the 95% quantile. (Special note: In this same folder, I have also placed a plot of “radiance v wavelength…” from MODTRAN. It uses magenta shading for the Band 16 range of wavelengths, for which a significant portion of the static “warming” tendency of the 2XCO2 case is computed. Readers here at WUWT might remember this plot from a few years ago.)
The purpose was to directly compare the longwave emitter performance and characteristics for these two bands, using time-matched data files. That is why the same custom color scale is used for both bands for the images.
Discussion
Stepping through the images, the influence of active cloud formation and dissipation on IR emission from any part of the region is obvious. Also obvious is the rapid rise and decay of IR emission to space from under clear skies as the daytime pulse of solar energy is absorbed at the skin surface, followed by rapid cooling. This is more pronounced in the window band, as one would expect. Not so obvious is that the radiance above the cloud tops gives a higher value (i.e. a bit less “white” in the images) in Band 16 than in Band 13.
The region-wide mean for Band 16 is greater for all hours than for Band 13. Interesting. Note also the differences in the 5% and 95% quantiles. I don’t yet have a well-formed explanation for these findings.
So without further comment for now, I am posting this material for those who are interested in how the emitter is observed to perform.
P.S. Grok assisted by generating a list of valid URLs for automated download of the specified files. Doing so manually would take many hours, so it deterred this exercise until now. Grok also assisted by suggesting code snippets in R for image generation and for merging, and for generating and applying the specified color scale. This is where AI can be very useful.
NOAA describes the 16 bands for which data is acquired from the satellite at the following web page.
I wonder if they disagree with Fourier’s statement that the Earth loses all the heat it receives from the Sun to outer space, plus a little internal heat.
Maybe NOAA need an an instrument with an infinite number of bands, with infinite sensitivity. Anything less results in conclusion which deny reality – the reality being that the Earth’s surface has cooled since it was molten everywhere.
Posing your question, re the intensity of the bands at 750 cm-1 (13.3 micron) and at 960 cm-1 (10.3 micron wavelength) suggests an answer as to their relative radiation fluxes, both at ground level (289 K) and at cloud-top level (255 K):
“The thermal radiation spectrum, when expressed as intensity per unit wavenumber (\(W \cdot m^{-2} / cm^{-1}\)), reaches its maximum at the following frequencies (wavenumbers):
At 289 K, the maximum occurs at 566.73 cm⁻¹
At 255 K, the maximum occurs at 500.05 cm⁻¹ “
Because the maxima, at either / both temperatures, occur at frequencies (wavenumbers) well below those of both bands, the intensity should be greatest for the lower-frequency (long wavelength) Band 16, i.e. the one at ~ 750 wavenumbers / 13.3 micron wavelength.
— RLW, warm greetings to you all from tropical Chennai
The radiative greenhouse effect theory requires Earth’s atmosphere to “back” radiate (violates LoT 2) “extra” energy (TFK_bams09 396-160=236) from an ideal black body surface (TFK_bams09 page 315 box).
As demonstrated by experiment, the gold standard of classical science, the kinetic heat transfer processes of the contiguous atmospheric molecules render that scenario impossible.
The BBC is supposedly cleaning out the extreme-left child education indoctrination content after the recent publicity. I bet it’ll creep back in when they think the fuss has died down.
Well, not so long ago – WUWT. Anythang resembling Sky Dragons was ignored or 86’d.
YouTube terminated my account.
MSN edge blocks my posts.
LinkedIn suspended my account.
For instance, my posts of these will get snipped:
Anythang smacking of race gets blocked.
Per Census and FBI table 43a:
The rates of robbery and murder among the black demographic is 6.5 times that of the white demographic victims mostly black. Wonder why the prisons are full of “them?”
80% of gun carnage in Chicago is black on black. Can’t address gun violence without disarming the “you-know-whos”
Per CDC data 80% of C-19 cases were under 65 years while 75% of C-19 deaths were above 65 years w only 15% of the population. C-19 was just culling the herd of the too old, too sick, too crammed together as Medicare/Medicaid cash cows in contagious badly run (blue) elder care warehouses. CoPilot concurs.
90% of gun deaths are committed w handguns not long guns and half those deaths are suicides. A scant few % are w AR-15s. Just ask CoPilot.
I don’t care for any censorship. If someone says something I don’t like, I just ignore it. Personally, as a forester, I saw a lot of terrible forestry and spoke about it often- so the state’s forester license board tried to destroy me by taking away my license. They tried and failed. I asked the ACLU for help and they really get excited with a first amendment issue- after they wrote a letter to the state saying they were going to make a big deal out of this- the state backed down. As time has gone by- over the decades, much of the reform I called for- they accomplished, without of course ever saying they got any ideas from me.
strativarius
October 25, 2026 4:14 am
The clown show goes on. The Foreign Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer…
Heat killed a record 50,000 people in European cities this summer, new research suggests, with scientists blaming climate breakdown for two in every three of the deaths.
The “staggering” death toll, modelled using historical relationships between heat and health in 854 cities, was the worst on record, the study found.
“But perhaps what is even more alarming is the proportion of these deaths that we attribute to anthropogenic climate change.” – The Guardian
The ease with which they churn out their self-styled attribution modelling is more than alarming from a scientific point of view.
“These shocking figures represent thousands of families who have lost a loved one this summer due to the climate crisis,” said Katie White, the climate transition minister for the UK
“Heat killed a record 50,000 people in European cities this summer…”
What- were people pushed into fires? I bet most were old and close to dying anyway. If you don’t have AC, then it wasn’t the heat that killed them, it was the lack of AC- especially geezers like me, now that I just turned 77.
Got my first residential A/C about age 30+, having spent most youth in Miami and SoCal. Decades later, I still adapt better to summer heat than my daughter/granddaughters. (I rag them as sissies.)
Dry, western heat is much easier to adjust to- for me- than high humidity eastern heat. I like that the AC not only cools the air but it dries it out- and that clears up my sinuses.
I asked Copilot for “the number of world wide human deaths for each month of the year. It was very reluctant to produce the numbers. It gave some mealy mouthed excuses and told me to figure it out for myself. It was finally forced to give me numbers and simply divided the annual total by 12 gave the same number for each month. I suspect that the real answer would show far fewer summer deaths than winter deaths. Don’t trust anything from Copilot!
Never trust anything from AI (or any other single source )… use it as a starting point; & then verify everything; it can be long-winded … but well worth it to be accurate.
I’m going to say something callous and I am going to be judged harshly for it, but I stand by it.
I am untroubled if someone on the brink of death succumbs a day or too sooner than they might in more nearly perfect conditions.
I’ve seen a couple of deaths up close. None was pleasant. The euphemistic “peaceful” death occurs only after first going through a more or less prolonged period of misery—unless one is lucky enough to be carried off by a sudden cardiac or cerebral event. I am deeply sceptical that excess heat makes that terminal misery worse. There is only so much the body can take. Excess heat might overwhelm a dying person a little sooner but that is probably a mercy.
The implication that a hastened death is an excess death is unexamined.
The Danish Meteorological Institute (DMI) and several other public institutions temporarily took their websites offline due to critical security flaws in PHP, a widely used programming language. The Copenhagen Post
+1
Key Details
The Cause: Major security vulnerabilities in PHP were identified and publicly exposed, prompting a global scramble for patches. Reuters +1Precautionary Shutdown: DMI (dmi.dk), along with other services like Copenhagen Municipality, the Danish Road Directorate (Vejdirektoratet), and the school platform Aula, shut down their systems as a safety measure to prevent exploitation. The Copenhagen Post +1The Fix: PHP developers released software updates to patch the vulnerabilities, and public agencies and website operators have been working to install the updates before restoring full operations. The Copenhagen Post
For pure comic-relief-value, nothing beats Shaun Marcotte’s “Has the Next Ice Age Already Come & Gone?” (AAAScience-not, 22 October issue)
It could’ve been illustrated with those scary mid-’70s magazine-covers.
don k
October 25, 2026 7:53 am
From the Entirely_Predictable_But_Still_A_Great_Surprise_To_Many Department, Vermont’s moderate Republican Governor has given up on his Ford EV — a Ford F150 pickup, and switched to a hybrid. Reason: lack of reliable charging facilities and limited battery capacity. It’s a fair distance from the capitol Montpelier to the more remote corners of the state. Winter mornings there average about 10 degrees Fahrenheit (-12C) and the days don’t warm up all that much. Not great for Lithium ion battery efficiency. Not to mention that the battery has to warm the vehicle cabin as well.
The situation would doubtless be worse in many parts of the American West. Greater distances. Even fewer towns.
Nothing much wrong with EVs if you live in a mild climate, have relatively cheap electricity, don’t drive really long distances very often, don’t venture far off major highways, and can charge your vehicle at home most of the time. But, really, they aren’t for everyone. And won’t be for a long, long time.
Not nothing. When you throw a piston on your Ford Eco engine (common) or go into limp mode from one of the many esoteric emissions issues that plague modern ICE’s, flag me down.
Won’t be flagging you down anytime soon myself. My daily driver – over 4 decades old while still passing emissions testing with flying colors – has over 275,000 miles on the odometer with no possible option to go into limp mode. Joke made in an enthusiast magazine for my specific type of car many years ago (make / model withheld here to prevent doxxing of me) was that after the nuclear apocalypse, the only two things left still running around would be cockroaches and the engines in my type of car.
Funny! Robins are the type of thing the Bigoilblob folks would own as a ‘classic,’ suits their unstable personalities. Nope, what I have was owned by the millions from Europe to South Africa.
I’ve never heard of a “thrown piston”, although thrown rods are not rare if the engine is not properly maintained (i.e., did not run the engine low on oil). Another method is to go puddle jumping and do a “puddle” that is high enough that water is ingested into the carburetor/cylinder. Also saw a truck driver spray a lot of ether into a glow-plug hole on his diesel and got that result. That was pretty awesome.
Have you ever thrown a piston, or know someone who did? Can you describe that scenario to me?
I’m not sure what a “thrown” piston is. I’ve seen pistons with holes burned in the top from too high of a compression rate plus too hot of a plug. I’ve seen engines where a piston had part of the skirt broken off, probably to a piston ring failing, scoring the cylinder wall and/or leaving a piece embedded in the cylinder wall. I’ve seem pistons where the wrist pin failed, letting the piston slap until it broke a piece off.
But I’m not sure what a “thrown” piston actually is.
Ford gave up on its EV version of its F-150 pickup truck, called the Lightning. Phil Scott’s truck was a 2022 model, essentially on the road now for 3 years. I can remember when well-off folks got a new car every 2 years. His should be donated to Vermont’s historical museum. {Full disclosure: I drive a 2019 F150.}
FALSE. The headlights, running lights, and tail lights are LED, and draw 50-100 watts total, about 1% of the EV’s total. If the car is off and you leave the lights on, it would take 3 to 4 hours to draw enough from the 12 volt battery to render my EV unable to wake up.
But guess what? That won’t happen, because my Chevy Bolt will turn the lights off after 5 or 10 minutes if they’re left on with the car off. My diesel Ra 3500 turns them off after 8 minutes if the engine isn’t on. I suggest that you actually do some research before making a fool of yourself. LOL
For the most part, battery management systems take care of that problem Mark. And sodium can charge in the coldest of temperatures although it slows. And with solid state about to go commercial in 2027 the problem of cold is gone all together. And yes they will be expensive to start with, but that will change. Please keep up Mark.
In 2007, I did a project for a money manager on “clean tech.” Attended some conferences, took a field trip to China, ran some numbers. I was thumbs-down on tidal power and thumbs up on wind turbines, solar panes, EVs, and geothermal (“ground source”) heat pumps.
Four hits, one miss. Geothermal heat pumps were a non-starter. I didn’t fully grasp the negatives, plus the air-source side made big advances. Nothing is a “sure thing,” other than death and taxes. Battery hype is eternal, but I am confident that “semi solid state,” i.e. gel electrolyte batteries, will be very real at competitive per-kWh prices by the early ’30s, and the mid-’30s at the latest.
The glowing high numbers are too high, but the 65% gain in energy density will be real, and will make a huge difference, especially outside of North America. Is it a “sure thing?” Nothing is; everything is probabilities. That said, semi-solid state is definitely coming, and soon. First at high cost, but manufacturing scale economies will take care of that. If anything, early/mid ’30s target is too conservative.
What’s going commercial is semi-solid state, i.e. gel electrolyte. Full solid state won’t be mass market before the ’40s. There are still big engineering, cost, and manufacturing issues for those.
You are correct that BMS does take care of cold-weather charging. It’s not true that lithium batteries are unchargeable below 32 degrees, but it’s true that they are damaged. So BMS will heat the pack until it reaches a warmth specified by the software, typically 35 to 40. And higher for so-called fast chargers.
“Full solid state won’t be mass market before the ’40s. “ Nope…
1. The Automaker Frontrunners
Toyota: Widely considered the patent leader, Toyota plans to begin small-scale pilot production. They have formal government approval to launch their all-solid-state vehicles commercially between 2027 and 2028. They are introducing the tech first via their luxury Lexus flagship line, promising a 10-minute charge time and roughly 1,200 km of range. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Nissan: Actively building its own proprietary solid-state pilot plants, Nissan is strictly targeting a 2028 launch for its first production EV. [1, 2]
BMW & Honda: Both automakers are independently tracking a 2028 commercial launch. BMW has already begun testing full solid-state prototypes on public roads using adapted test fleets. [1, 2, 3]
BYD: The Chinese EV giant officially announced that it will debut its first all-solid-state battery in 2027, likely integrated into its ultra-premium Yangwang flagship brand before mass production scales by 2030
And… your point is? Oh wait that is meant to hurt right. I make a valid fact based point that you can’t counter and you revert to childish insults. Now that is funny.
“Solid-State Batteries Are Finally in Production — Here’s What the First Cells Can Really Do
The wait is over—the holy grail of EV technology has officially entered production! Solid-state batteries are finally rolling off the assembly line, promising to deliver massive range upgrades, lightning-fast charging times, and completely eliminate fire risks. In this video, we break down the exact specs of these groundbreaking first-generation cells, which automakers are getting them first, and how they will completely change the EV industry forever!”
When it hits the market and actually works, let me know.
I’m not impressed by these going to be ready some day claims many of you advocates keep touting.
Mark is like the little boy who throws stones on your roof … then runs away. This happens all the time. He makes a silly comment, gets called on it, then disappears. Tough guy…..
I just (early July) bought my second EV, a used 2019 Chevy Bolt with a battery that was replaced under the recall. My first EV was a 2011 Think City bought during the bankruptcy for 70% off. I did not then and do not now believe in the AGW hypothesis. I bought the first one out of curiosity and the Bolt after talking to a guy in the barber shop.
I agree with everything above. Vermont is colder than where we are on the Columbia River, and I’d have to know more about the guy’s reasons for getting the Lightning to say more. I did another round of deep research incident to this purchase. The next big EV story will be the commercialization of “semi-solid state” gel electrolyte batteries whose energy density will be ~65% better than today’s liquid electrolytes.
60% of U.S. households have more than one vehicle. (We have three.) That’s the EV sweet spot, IMO, and if the usable all-weather ranges increase by 65%, that’s the target market: commuter vehicles in metro suburbs and exurbs. EVs are 6% of the new car market, and I think the new chemistry can make it 35%-40% without any tax favoratism or coercion, both of which I oppose. To do that, I think the EV makers will need to make the fueling side less complicated. I’m a nerd and revel in the details, but most people do not.
Where we live, diesel is $7.09 at the closest pumps 6 miles away, and gas is $5.39. Electricity is 10.8 cents/kWh. Fuel per mile is 38 cents to 60 cents a mile for our Ram 3500 truck, depending on whether I drive to Portland or just around here. For the Toyota RAV-4, 25 cents. For the EV, 3 cents, including the 11% charging loss between the wall outlet and the battery. I was using the truck as the daily driver and switched to the Bolt. I have driven the EV 2,730 miles and saved $1,218, all of which I am donating to charity.
I like the Bolt a lot. The Think was cramped and Spartan, a glorified golf cart, while the Bolt is a real compact car with all the features. That said, I am not an “EVangelist” who thinks they are substitutes for someone’s only car. The Bolt is great if you drive a couple hundred miles or less in summer, and 150-175 miles in winter where we are. That will vary for others. We are roadtrippers through some remote places and on rough roads, and occasionally haul heavy loads. Never the Bolt for that, nor on ice or snowy roads in winter.
The great advantage that EVs and hybrids offer is far cleaner driving in heavy, stop and go, city traffic. That being said, I expect a lot of new utility charges to run transportation from the electric grid when EVs become one-third or more of the auto market.
EVs will never be a replacement for construction, Ag, aircraft and over the road commercial trucks; probably not ever for locomotives and ships.
Oh boy how things have changed at WUWT. Not so long ago EV’s were only good for vomiting on. Now they are ok for some things…. but certainly not others. Who knows in a fews years, that might change too as battery energy density improves.
Lots of jerking knees here. Understandable given the hype from “EVangelists,” but a jerking knee is still a jerking knee. EVs, to me, are purely about battery chemistry and engineering. That’s how I have always viewed it.
EVs have a long list of advantages; in fact, I’d say that electric motive power is broadly superior in every respect I can think of. The critical show-stopper is the low energy density of batteries, which indeed makes them unsuitable for most heavy vehicles and for American road trips in light passenger vehicles.
EV’s are HEAVY. This is a disadvantage on snow and ice where stopping distances are important. It means the EV’s can’t reach the same SAFE speeds on snow and ice. Unless of course spacing increases = which turns into a traffic problem where vehicle density is high.
The EV’s also require “feathering” of the accelerator since the electric motors have high torque at low speeds which can cause wheel spinning in low traction situations. Drivers today that are used to automatic transmissions typically never learn this technique.
“The EV’s also require “feathering” of the accelerator since the electric motors have high torque at low speeds which can cause wheel spinning in low traction situations.” So Tim, is this you speaking from experience, or did you hear that from a friend who heard it from a friend? I can tell you from experience, the driving process change took me about 10 minutes. 10 Minutes well spent. They are smooth, quiet and powerful. In short a joy to drive…. and cheap if you can charge at home. My Tesla model 3 has 150,000kms on the clock (in 5 years)and no mechanical issues at all. The battery has no noticeable degradation and the cost of those 150000kms has been about a quarter of what I would have paid driving an ice car. Win win win.
Not sure where you live. Around here it’s a problem for experienced drivers of ICE vehicles to learn how to feather their low-torque drivetrains in snow and on ice. You can see it at the bottom of the hills even with just a couple of inches of snow or a just a sheen of ice.
I live right in the center of the CONUS. We get snow and ice during winter. Usually not feet of snow but certainly inches worth. Most drivers are simply idiots on snow and ice. And they never learn.
I have driven any number of electric motor driven forklifts and skid steer vehicles. All low speed, high-torque. You have the same problems with them as you have with electric automobiles.
I really don’t care what your vehicle has done. You didn’t actually refute anything I asserted.
I am many weekends out in rural America tent camping with Boy Scouts, Viking clan, or at renaissance fairs. Not much opportunity for charging an electric vehicle. Thank you but I’ll keep my Honda Pilot so that I can carry 100 miles of fuel in a 5 gallon can and not have to abandon my vehicle in an emergency.
The average EV is 15%-30% heavier than its equivalent ICEV counterpart. The difference is so minor as to be irrelevant. My guess is that you have driven very little on snow or ice in any kind of vehicle, EV or ICEV. Your claims are laughable. But your knee is jerking, so here you are, making a complete fool of yourself.
I have owned 17 road vehicles. I have lived all of my life in places that can and often do get heavy snow.
Today, I own a 2WD Chevy Bolt EV that weighs 3,550 lbs., a 4WD diesel Ram 3500 that weighs 8,000 lbs., and a 4WD gas Toyota RAV-4 that weighs 3,675 lbs. You’re going to tell me that the Ram is unsafe because of its weight and the Bolt is unsafe because the speed is uncontrollable? What ignorance. How utterly stupid. Really, you don’t have a clue, and boy does it ever show.
Genius, the #1 factor for snow and ice by far is tires. #2 is the drive, 2 or 4 wheels. The Ram 3500 has winter tires with studs from December through March. It’s the default in snow or ice. I don’t need chains. The Toyota has all-season tires and is second best because of 4WD. The Bolt is #3 because the tires are low-resistance not designed for snow or ice, and it’s 2WD. No matter what you drive, caution is the watchword on slick roads.
You know NOTHING. Stay in Florida, Gomer. And stop pontificating about what you clearly do not know. LOL
Why is it that the leftists on here can never read for meaning and context? I never said that EV’s have poor starting traction, I said most drivers can’t use them properly. And totally ignored the fact that the heavier EV’s need more spacing distance because of increased stopping distances for a heavier vehicle?
You are naturally generous and community minded. Crashing a heavy EV because of the inexperience you are describing will endanger OTHERS, these cocky youths just think about themselves
“ My guess is that you have driven very little on snow or ice in any kind of vehicle,”
That’s the *BEST* you got for a refutation?
If you had actually read what I said, you would have seen that I said: “This is a disadvantage on snow and ice where stopping distances are important.”
I didn’t say that EV’s don’t have good traction. I said MOST DRIVERS don’t know how to drive them properly in snow and ice. Most drivers don’t know how to drive ICE vehicles properly in snow and ice!
You didn’t mention stopping distance even once. Why is it that leftists on WUWT all have such poor reading comprehension skills? Have a conversation with your local highway patrol officer about the need to increase spacing when driving a heavy EV on snow and ice. The same thing applies to your RAM! If you haven’t learned that simple truth by now then you are a danger on the road!
So Tim you make a fair point re weight, but you miss some of the advantages of an EV on ice and snow, so in the hope you genuinely want the full picture, here they are…
Heavy Weight and Low Center of Gravity: EV batteries sit flat along the floor, making the vehicle heavier and lower to the ground. This helps push the tires down into the snow for extra grip.
Instant and Precise Traction Control: Electric motors react in milliseconds to adjust power at each wheel, stopping slips much faster than a traditional mechanical transmission.
Regenerative Braking Controls: Modern EV braking systems (like those on Tesla and other current models) automatically scale back or smooth out regenerative braking on slippery surfaces to prevent the wheels from locking up
center of gravity doesn’t help. Traction force is just straight down, The same weight at twice the height, with the same tire patch, will have the same traction force. I already discussed the vehicle weight. One factor of weight that has not been discussed is that heavier vehicles will push more *soft* snow ahead of the tire increasing the torque needed to push through. This can actually cause more tire spin. Think of a pair of dirt bikes riding through loose sand, such as on a beach. The lighter dirt bike can ride higher in the sand needing less force to move forward. The heavier dirt bike sinks in further making it harder to propel ahead. Do it in soft snow and the heavier vehicle can actually be less efficient.
Slippage in snow can cause the formation of ice under the tire patch. Adjusting power won’t help if the tire continues to spin. You actually get less force pushing the vehicle ahead. That same instant power with high torque makes the driver the most important factor in not starting the spin to begin with.
Reducing braking force doesn’t help the fact that the heavier vehicle requires more stopping distance. Increased stopping distance has an impact on traffic density when demand is high, e.g. during rush hour. Result: longer commute times and/or more accidents.
While I have been accused of living where there is no snow, I actually live in a rural area where we do get snow, usually not as deep as in more northern states but still more than sufficient to have 60 years of experience in driving in snow. Much of the hype for EV’s having advantages over ICE vehicles in snow is just that – hype.
I have driven all kinds of things in snow, from dirt bikes to 2-ton farm trucks. I can assure you that USUALLY, an unloaded 2-ton farm truck trying to reach a destination (like a watering point) can traverse in snow better than one fully loaded with feed. On ice there really isn’t much difference.
Of course you are confused. That seems to be endemic among CAGW advocates. It comes from being unable to read for meaning and context. Cherry picking and putting words in people’s mouth tend to cause that.
Over the past 60 years of driving I’ve driven everything ranging through a go-kart, dirt bike, light sports car, Lincoln Continental, International Harvester Travellall, 4W F100 Ford, 1940-era Army Jeep, a modern 2-door Jeep, a dual-rear wheel 2-ton farm truck (loaded and unloaded), and even a restored Model A Ford.
Do you have even a clue as to which I would pick if I had only one vehicle to traverse adverse conditions including mud, deep snow, ice, rain, etc?
Do you have even a clue as to why I would choose it?
Ever see an off-road rock crawler? Ever see a Tesla modified for that?
Wow, that is one crazy long list. You are a regular vehicle aficionado. I’m surprised you didn’t list the Millennium Falcon.
But….despite your wide and impressive vehicle background, I’ll note there is no mention of you ever driving an EV on ice. In fact no mention of you driving an EV.
Pardon me if I am a little skeptical about your apparent “overwhelming” knowledge in this area. I think this is justified, because despite your wealth of knowledge and experience in driving a variety of vehicles, the one you are critical of and feel justified in commenting on… you appear to have have never driven. Maybe look up the Dunnings Kruger effect.
“But….despite your wide and impressive vehicle background, I’ll note there is no mention of you ever driving an EV on ice. In fact no mention of you driving an EV.”
So what? I have driven HEAVY vehicles on ice. That’s basically all an EV is, a vehicle that is heavier than an ICE vehicle of the same style. I *have* driven a 1958 Chevy pickup with a compound low gear (do you even know what that is?) on ice using a manual transmission. Same increase in torque at the rear wheels at low rpm’s with more control over the drivetrain. Just like an EV.
You keep refusing to address the issue of STOPPING heavy vehicles on ice. Why is that?
” I think this is justified, because despite your wealth of knowledge and experience in driving a variety of vehicles, the one you are critical of and feel justified in commenting on… you appear to have have never driven. Maybe look up the Dunnings Kruger effect.” (bolding mine, tpg)
Right back at you! You’ve not driven most of the vehicles I have. Yet you feel *YOU* are justified in commenting on how they are not the equal of an EV in adverse conditions?
Does the phrase “pot calling the kettle black” ring any bells with you?
And I see you didn’t answer the question about the rock crawler either. I didn’t figure you would.
“So what? I have driven HEAVY vehicles on ice. That’s basically all an EV is, a vehicle that is heavier than an ICE vehicle of the same style…..”
If you think driving a large truck, is basically like driving an EV, because they are both heavy…… that’s like saying Trump is like Oliver Hardy because they are both heavy. Actually maybe you do have a point….Yep you win.
Again, this is the best you got? You really haven’t demonstrated any knowledge of vehicle physics at all. Have you *EVER* wondered how an old Model A Ford managed traversing mud and snow so well?
I have decades of experience driving in snow and ice. 17 vehicles: gas, diesel, electric. Light, medium, heavy. All-season tires, snow tires, studded tires, chains. Nope, I’m not a pathetic Florida vintage car collector, so no Model A. You know NOTHING. Stay in the sunbelt with that jerking knee.
My uncle taught me to drive in a Ford without synchromesh which required starting with a crank handle at the front.
Changing up and down gears required an ear tuned to the sound of the rotational speed of the engine.
I still prefer a manual in snow and heavy rain particularly on unsealed road, of which there are many including the one past my farm gate.
The manual transmission coupled with a 6-cyl with big buckets and long rods for torque works well in *all* situations, snow/mud/ice/gravel/etc. *YOU* have control and aren’t dependent on a computer to make the best use of the drive-train.
David Wojick
October 25, 2026 12:12 pm
Glitch? Replies do not show just a “View Replies” button that does not work. When I press it the action indicator briefly indicates things are happening but the replies do not appear.
I refresh the page – for Word Press only. It often forgets I’m logged in and ignores votes and attempts to comment. A refresh and everything goes back to normal. Only happens a few times a day.
Apparently the Sphinx snow patch, the longest lasting in Scotland, melted again this year. It was still there in the first week of October but last week someone couldn’t find it. After a difficult trudge through deep snow he reached the spot and even after digging away all the snow he couldn’t find the snow patch. I hope he replaced the snow as that should have been part of the 2027 Sphinx.
Here is some new material based on the Band 13 and Band 16 radiance data files for the CONUS region from the GOES East geostationary satellite. Each archived data file is a 2500 column by 1500 row array of numerical values in units of mW m-2 sr-1 (cm-1)-1 (in words, this means milliwatts per square meter per steradian per wavenumber.)
Band 13 is the “10.3 micron Clean Longwave IR Window” channel. 2 km resolution, 5-minute update.
Band 16 is the “13.3 micron CO2 Longwave – IR” channel. 2 km resolution, 5-minute update.
For this exercise, the first of the 12 data files in each 1-hour block of archived files was downloaded and processed into a series of images and histograms. There are 168 files at these 1-hour sampling intervals running from 7-1-2026 at 0000Z to 7-7-2026 at 2300Z. 7 full days of summer conditions. The images and histograms from the Band 13 and Band 16 data are merged into a set of 168 sequential side-by-side pairs for ease of time-matched comparison. The files are named numerically in time series order.
In the folder below, there are subfolders with the images and histograms. In the main folder, there is the custom color scale and two plots. One plot gives the mean radiance for the entire region, by hour, for Band 13 and for Band 16. The other plot expands the vertical scale and shows the mean, the 5% quantile, and the 95% quantile. (Special note: In this same folder, I have also placed a plot of “radiance v wavelength…” from MODTRAN. It uses magenta shading for the Band 16 range of wavelengths, for which a significant portion of the static “warming” tendency of the 2XCO2 case is computed. Readers here at WUWT might remember this plot from a few years ago.)
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/11jRax2RWdZe90Sqf84NGt_Q0wMzfdHnI?usp=sharing
Source data files are from:
https://noaa-goes19.s3.amazonaws.com/index.html#ABI-L1b-RadC/2026/182/
The purpose was to directly compare the longwave emitter performance and characteristics for these two bands, using time-matched data files. That is why the same custom color scale is used for both bands for the images.
Discussion
Stepping through the images, the influence of active cloud formation and dissipation on IR emission from any part of the region is obvious. Also obvious is the rapid rise and decay of IR emission to space from under clear skies as the daytime pulse of solar energy is absorbed at the skin surface, followed by rapid cooling. This is more pronounced in the window band, as one would expect. Not so obvious is that the radiance above the cloud tops gives a higher value (i.e. a bit less “white” in the images) in Band 16 than in Band 13.
The region-wide mean for Band 16 is greater for all hours than for Band 13. Interesting. Note also the differences in the 5% and 95% quantiles. I don’t yet have a well-formed explanation for these findings.
So without further comment for now, I am posting this material for those who are interested in how the emitter is observed to perform.
NOAA describes the 16 bands for which data is acquired from the satellite at the following web page.
https://www.star.nesdis.noaa.gov/GOES/conus.php?sat=G19&refresh=true
Thank you for your interest in this matter.
P.S. Grok assisted by generating a list of valid URLs for automated download of the specified files. Doing so manually would take many hours, so it deterred this exercise until now. Grok also assisted by suggesting code snippets in R for image generation and for merging, and for generating and applying the specified color scale. This is where AI can be very useful.
I wonder if they disagree with Fourier’s statement that the Earth loses all the heat it receives from the Sun to outer space, plus a little internal heat.
Maybe NOAA need an an instrument with an infinite number of bands, with infinite sensitivity. Anything less results in conclusion which deny reality – the reality being that the Earth’s surface has cooled since it was molten everywhere.
Posing your question, re the intensity of the bands at 750 cm-1 (13.3 micron) and at 960 cm-1 (10.3 micron wavelength) suggests an answer as to their relative radiation fluxes, both at ground level (289 K) and at cloud-top level (255 K):
“The thermal radiation spectrum, when expressed as intensity per unit wavenumber (\(W \cdot m^{-2} / cm^{-1}\)), reaches its maximum at the following frequencies (wavenumbers):
Because the maxima, at either / both temperatures, occur at frequencies (wavenumbers) well below those of both bands, the intensity should be greatest for the lower-frequency (long wavelength) Band 16, i.e. the one at ~ 750 wavenumbers / 13.3 micron wavelength.
— RLW, warm greetings to you all from tropical Chennai
Thank you for your reply. This is a good point.
The radiative greenhouse effect theory requires Earth’s atmosphere to “back” radiate (violates LoT 2) “extra” energy (TFK_bams09 396-160=236) from an ideal black body surface (TFK_bams09 page 315 box).
As demonstrated by experiment, the gold standard of classical science, the kinetic heat transfer processes of the contiguous atmospheric molecules render that scenario impossible.
For the experimental write up see:
https://principia-scientific.org/debunking-the-greenhouse-gas-theory-with-a-boiling-water-pot/
Search: Bruges group “boiling water pot” Schroeder
Great stuff, David. Thanks for letting us have a front row seat on your data research…
Coal-fired data centers?
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2026/10/23/could-data-centers-save-wyoming-coal-peabody-eyes-holy-grail-strategy/
The BBC is supposedly cleaning out the extreme-left child education indoctrination content after the recent publicity. I bet it’ll creep back in when they think the fuss has died down.
https://www.dailymail.com/news/article-16235995/BBC-education-website-millions-Leftist-views-extreme-migration-Net-Zero.html
‘The MoS understands the report caused major concern among senior BBC bosses who ordered a review.’
I’ll bet the ‘senior BBC bosses’ were almost as shocked as Captain Louis Renault at this revelation.
How can we solve the tough problems if censors do not allow the tough questions?
Examples?
Well, not so long ago – WUWT. Anythang resembling Sky Dragons was ignored or 86’d.
YouTube terminated my account.
MSN edge blocks my posts.
LinkedIn suspended my account.
For instance, my posts of these will get snipped:
Anythang smacking of race gets blocked.
Per Census and FBI table 43a:
The rates of robbery and murder among the black demographic is 6.5 times that of the white demographic victims mostly black. Wonder why the prisons are full of “them?”
80% of gun carnage in Chicago is black on black. Can’t address gun violence without disarming the “you-know-whos”
Per CDC data 80% of C-19 cases were under 65 years while 75% of C-19 deaths were above 65 years w only 15% of the population. C-19 was just culling the herd of the too old, too sick, too crammed together as Medicare/Medicaid cash cows in contagious badly run (blue) elder care warehouses. CoPilot concurs.
90% of gun deaths are committed w handguns not long guns and half those deaths are suicides. A scant few % are w AR-15s. Just ask CoPilot.
I don’t care for any censorship. If someone says something I don’t like, I just ignore it. Personally, as a forester, I saw a lot of terrible forestry and spoke about it often- so the state’s forester license board tried to destroy me by taking away my license. They tried and failed. I asked the ACLU for help and they really get excited with a first amendment issue- after they wrote a letter to the state saying they were going to make a big deal out of this- the state backed down. As time has gone by- over the decades, much of the reform I called for- they accomplished, without of course ever saying they got any ideas from me.
The clown show goes on. The Foreign Secretary and the Chancellor of the Exchequer…
If you want cringe, Burnham being relatable on GoggleBox with his pint glass and platter of crispy snacks.
https://youtu.be/hF_imyFbtlU
Going to need more handouts for immigrants.
Attribution goes to the mortuary.
Heat-related urban mortality attributable to human-induced climate change in Europe in summer 2026
Imperial and London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine
Think of some scary numbers…
Heat killed a record 50,000 people in European cities this summer, new research suggests, with scientists blaming climate breakdown for two in every three of the deaths.
The “staggering” death toll, modelled using historical relationships between heat and health in 854 cities, was the worst on record, the study found.
“But perhaps what is even more alarming is the proportion of these deaths that we attribute to anthropogenic climate change.” – The Guardian
The ease with which they churn out their self-styled attribution modelling is more than alarming from a scientific point of view.
“These shocking figures represent thousands of families who have lost a loved one this summer due to the climate crisis,” said Katie White, the climate transition minister for the UK
Bonkers. The whole bally lot of them.
Keep up at the back.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2026/10/23/climate-death-toll-batteries-not-included/
“Heat killed a record 50,000 people in European cities this summer…”
What- were people pushed into fires? I bet most were old and close to dying anyway. If you don’t have AC, then it wasn’t the heat that killed them, it was the lack of AC- especially geezers like me, now that I just turned 77.
Got my first residential A/C about age 30+, having spent most youth in Miami and SoCal. Decades later, I still adapt better to summer heat than my daughter/granddaughters. (I rag them as sissies.)
Dry, western heat is much easier to adjust to- for me- than high humidity eastern heat. I like that the AC not only cools the air but it dries it out- and that clears up my sinuses.
Democide is a growing trend and it seems that death is more economical than air conditioning.
I started a sarcastic reply, but words fail.
I asked Copilot for “the number of world wide human deaths for each month of the year. It was very reluctant to produce the numbers. It gave some mealy mouthed excuses and told me to figure it out for myself. It was finally forced to give me numbers and simply divided the annual total by 12 gave the same number for each month. I suspect that the real answer would show far fewer summer deaths than winter deaths. Don’t trust anything from Copilot!
[“Don’t trust anything from Copilot!“]
Never trust anything from AI (or any other single source ) … use it as a starting point; & then verify everything; it can be long-winded … but well worth it to be accurate.
Use Claude A.I. and pay attention to its sourcing.
I’m going to say something callous and I am going to be judged harshly for it, but I stand by it.
I am untroubled if someone on the brink of death succumbs a day or too sooner than they might in more nearly perfect conditions.
I’ve seen a couple of deaths up close. None was pleasant. The euphemistic “peaceful” death occurs only after first going through a more or less prolonged period of misery—unless one is lucky enough to be carried off by a sudden cardiac or cerebral event. I am deeply sceptical that excess heat makes that terminal misery worse. There is only so much the body can take. Excess heat might overwhelm a dying person a little sooner but that is probably a mercy.
The implication that a hastened death is an excess death is unexamined.
What is going on with DMI and NSIDC ?
No updates , DMI page not loading ???
These are results for Danish Meteorological institute site problem
Search instead for Danish Meteorlogical institute site problem
AI Overview
The Danish Meteorological Institute (DMI) and several other public institutions temporarily took their websites offline due to critical security flaws in PHP, a widely used programming language. The Copenhagen Post
+1
Key Details
The Cause: Major security vulnerabilities in PHP were identified and publicly exposed, prompting a global scramble for patches. Reuters +1Precautionary Shutdown: DMI (dmi.dk), along with other services like Copenhagen Municipality, the Danish Road Directorate (Vejdirektoratet), and the school platform Aula, shut down their systems as a safety measure to prevent exploitation. The Copenhagen Post +1The Fix: PHP developers released software updates to patch the vulnerabilities, and public agencies and website operators have been working to install the updates before restoring full operations. The Copenhagen Post
VIA Google Search AI summary.
AI found the flaw.
For pure comic-relief-value, nothing beats Shaun Marcotte’s “Has the Next Ice Age Already Come & Gone?” (AAAScience-not, 22 October issue)
It could’ve been illustrated with those scary mid-’70s magazine-covers.
From the Entirely_Predictable_But_Still_A_Great_Surprise_To_Many Department, Vermont’s moderate Republican Governor has given up on his Ford EV — a Ford F150 pickup, and switched to a hybrid. Reason: lack of reliable charging facilities and limited battery capacity. It’s a fair distance from the capitol Montpelier to the more remote corners of the state. Winter mornings there average about 10 degrees Fahrenheit (-12C) and the days don’t warm up all that much. Not great for Lithium ion battery efficiency. Not to mention that the battery has to warm the vehicle cabin as well.
The situation would doubtless be worse in many parts of the American West. Greater distances. Even fewer towns.
Nothing much wrong with EVs if you live in a mild climate, have relatively cheap electricity, don’t drive really long distances very often, don’t venture far off major highways, and can charge your vehicle at home most of the time. But, really, they aren’t for everyone. And won’t be for a long, long time.
Also, nothing wrong with them as second vehicles, for 90% of our driving, time wise. I.e., for the 59% of US households that own more than 1.
And nothing wrong with ICE vehicle as a 2nd car.
Not nothing. When you throw a piston on your Ford Eco engine (common) or go into limp mode from one of the many esoteric emissions issues that plague modern ICE’s, flag me down.
Both types of vehicle have their vulnerabilities.
Won’t be flagging you down anytime soon myself. My daily driver – over 4 decades old while still passing emissions testing with flying colors – has over 275,000 miles on the odometer with no possible option to go into limp mode. Joke made in an enthusiast magazine for my specific type of car many years ago (make / model withheld here to prevent doxxing of me) was that after the nuclear apocalypse, the only two things left still running around would be cockroaches and the engines in my type of car.
Reliant Robin ??
Funny! Robins are the type of thing the Bigoilblob folks would own as a ‘classic,’ suits their unstable personalities. Nope, what I have was owned by the millions from Europe to South Africa.
I’ve never heard of a “thrown piston”, although thrown rods are not rare if the engine is not properly maintained (i.e., did not run the engine low on oil). Another method is to go puddle jumping and do a “puddle” that is high enough that water is ingested into the carburetor/cylinder. Also saw a truck driver spray a lot of ether into a glow-plug hole on his diesel and got that result. That was pretty awesome.
Have you ever thrown a piston, or know someone who did? Can you describe that scenario to me?
I’m not sure what a “thrown” piston is. I’ve seen pistons with holes burned in the top from too high of a compression rate plus too hot of a plug. I’ve seen engines where a piston had part of the skirt broken off, probably to a piston ring failing, scoring the cylinder wall and/or leaving a piece embedded in the cylinder wall. I’ve seem pistons where the wrist pin failed, letting the piston slap until it broke a piece off.
But I’m not sure what a “thrown” piston actually is.
For those who can afford a second car.
Ford gave up on its EV version of its F-150 pickup truck, called the Lightning. Phil Scott’s truck was a 2022 model, essentially on the road now for 3 years. I can remember when well-off folks got a new car every 2 years. His should be donated to Vermont’s historical museum. {Full disclosure: I drive a 2019 F150.}
From post:”Not to mention that the battery has to warm the vehicle cabin as well.”
Not to mention the head lights, wipers, radio/cd player.
The accessories other than HVAC use next to nothing.
The headlights and running lights can drain your battery in about 10 minutes.
FALSE. The headlights, running lights, and tail lights are LED, and draw 50-100 watts total, about 1% of the EV’s total. If the car is off and you leave the lights on, it would take 3 to 4 hours to draw enough from the 12 volt battery to render my EV unable to wake up.
But guess what? That won’t happen, because my Chevy Bolt will turn the lights off after 5 or 10 minutes if they’re left on with the car off. My diesel Ra 3500 turns them off after 8 minutes if the engine isn’t on. I suggest that you actually do some research before making a fool of yourself. LOL
You also can’t charge a LiIon battery when the temperature of the battery is below freezing.
For the most part, battery management systems take care of that problem Mark. And sodium can charge in the coldest of temperatures although it slows. And with solid state about to go commercial in 2027 the problem of cold is gone all together. And yes they will be expensive to start with, but that will change. Please keep up Mark.
About to go commercial and be expensive does not equal problem is gone. Might be gone some time in the future (or not).
You would be a fool to bet against it given the progress to date.
If I had a dollar for every time an advocate proclaimed, this time it’s a sure thing, I wouldn’t need to be making bets.
In 2007, I did a project for a money manager on “clean tech.” Attended some conferences, took a field trip to China, ran some numbers. I was thumbs-down on tidal power and thumbs up on wind turbines, solar panes, EVs, and geothermal (“ground source”) heat pumps.
Four hits, one miss. Geothermal heat pumps were a non-starter. I didn’t fully grasp the negatives, plus the air-source side made big advances. Nothing is a “sure thing,” other than death and taxes. Battery hype is eternal, but I am confident that “semi solid state,” i.e. gel electrolyte batteries, will be very real at competitive per-kWh prices by the early ’30s, and the mid-’30s at the latest.
The glowing high numbers are too high, but the 65% gain in energy density will be real, and will make a huge difference, especially outside of North America. Is it a “sure thing?” Nothing is; everything is probabilities. That said, semi-solid state is definitely coming, and soon. First at high cost, but manufacturing scale economies will take care of that. If anything, early/mid ’30s target is too conservative.
Full solid state will take quite a bit longer.
What’s going commercial is semi-solid state, i.e. gel electrolyte. Full solid state won’t be mass market before the ’40s. There are still big engineering, cost, and manufacturing issues for those.
You are correct that BMS does take care of cold-weather charging. It’s not true that lithium batteries are unchargeable below 32 degrees, but it’s true that they are damaged. So BMS will heat the pack until it reaches a warmth specified by the software, typically 35 to 40. And higher for so-called fast chargers.
“Full solid state won’t be mass market before the ’40s. “
Nope…
1. The Automaker Frontrunners
Pilot programs aren’t mass market, but I will check from time to time.
Wow two down votes for a factual post. Maybe some here don’t like facts.
What you consider to be facts, rarely are.
Well then be a big boy Mark and tell me where they are wrong? Go on…..
No, they just don’t like you.
And… your point is? Oh wait that is meant to hurt right. I make a valid fact based point that you can’t counter and you revert to childish insults. Now that is funny.
Poor baby…boo hoo. Oh, the point is obvious-go ask your Mama to kiss and make it better.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9lflSOtpnc
“Solid-State Batteries Are Finally in Production — Here’s What the First Cells Can Really Do
The wait is over—the holy grail of EV technology has officially entered production! Solid-state batteries are finally rolling off the assembly line, promising to deliver massive range upgrades, lightning-fast charging times, and completely eliminate fire risks. In this video, we break down the exact specs of these groundbreaking first-generation cells, which automakers are getting them first, and how they will completely change the EV industry forever!”
When it hits the market and actually works, let me know.
I’m not impressed by these going to be ready some day claims many of you advocates keep touting.
BTW, EVs are already expensive and unreliable. Why make them more so?
Unreliable you say? Well let’s see where you made that up from… I mean got that from?
Mark is like the little boy who throws stones on your roof … then runs away. This happens all the time. He makes a silly comment, gets called on it, then disappears. Tough guy…..
I just (early July) bought my second EV, a used 2019 Chevy Bolt with a battery that was replaced under the recall. My first EV was a 2011 Think City bought during the bankruptcy for 70% off. I did not then and do not now believe in the AGW hypothesis. I bought the first one out of curiosity and the Bolt after talking to a guy in the barber shop.
I agree with everything above. Vermont is colder than where we are on the Columbia River, and I’d have to know more about the guy’s reasons for getting the Lightning to say more. I did another round of deep research incident to this purchase. The next big EV story will be the commercialization of “semi-solid state” gel electrolyte batteries whose energy density will be ~65% better than today’s liquid electrolytes.
60% of U.S. households have more than one vehicle. (We have three.) That’s the EV sweet spot, IMO, and if the usable all-weather ranges increase by 65%, that’s the target market: commuter vehicles in metro suburbs and exurbs. EVs are 6% of the new car market, and I think the new chemistry can make it 35%-40% without any tax favoratism or coercion, both of which I oppose. To do that, I think the EV makers will need to make the fueling side less complicated. I’m a nerd and revel in the details, but most people do not.
Where we live, diesel is $7.09 at the closest pumps 6 miles away, and gas is $5.39. Electricity is 10.8 cents/kWh. Fuel per mile is 38 cents to 60 cents a mile for our Ram 3500 truck, depending on whether I drive to Portland or just around here. For the Toyota RAV-4, 25 cents. For the EV, 3 cents, including the 11% charging loss between the wall outlet and the battery. I was using the truck as the daily driver and switched to the Bolt. I have driven the EV 2,730 miles and saved $1,218, all of which I am donating to charity.
I like the Bolt a lot. The Think was cramped and Spartan, a glorified golf cart, while the Bolt is a real compact car with all the features. That said, I am not an “EVangelist” who thinks they are substitutes for someone’s only car. The Bolt is great if you drive a couple hundred miles or less in summer, and 150-175 miles in winter where we are. That will vary for others. We are roadtrippers through some remote places and on rough roads, and occasionally haul heavy loads. Never the Bolt for that, nor on ice or snowy roads in winter.
The great advantage that EVs and hybrids offer is far cleaner driving in heavy, stop and go, city traffic. That being said, I expect a lot of new utility charges to run transportation from the electric grid when EVs become one-third or more of the auto market.
EVs will never be a replacement for construction, Ag, aircraft and over the road commercial trucks; probably not ever for locomotives and ships.
Oh boy how things have changed at WUWT. Not so long ago EV’s were only good for vomiting on. Now they are ok for some things…. but certainly not others. Who knows in a fews years, that might change too as battery energy density improves.
Lots of jerking knees here. Understandable given the hype from “EVangelists,” but a jerking knee is still a jerking knee. EVs, to me, are purely about battery chemistry and engineering. That’s how I have always viewed it.
EVs have a long list of advantages; in fact, I’d say that electric motive power is broadly superior in every respect I can think of. The critical show-stopper is the low energy density of batteries, which indeed makes them unsuitable for most heavy vehicles and for American road trips in light passenger vehicles.
EV’s are HEAVY. This is a disadvantage on snow and ice where stopping distances are important. It means the EV’s can’t reach the same SAFE speeds on snow and ice. Unless of course spacing increases = which turns into a traffic problem where vehicle density is high.
The EV’s also require “feathering” of the accelerator since the electric motors have high torque at low speeds which can cause wheel spinning in low traction situations. Drivers today that are used to automatic transmissions typically never learn this technique.
I’ll consider an EV when they come with a manual transmission.
“I’ll consider an EV when they come with a manual transmission.” And a horse and coal?
“The EV’s also require “feathering” of the accelerator since the electric motors have high torque at low speeds which can cause wheel spinning in low traction situations.”
So Tim, is this you speaking from experience, or did you hear that from a friend who heard it from a friend?
I can tell you from experience, the driving process change took me about 10 minutes. 10 Minutes well spent. They are smooth, quiet and powerful. In short a joy to drive…. and cheap if you can charge at home. My Tesla model 3 has 150,000kms on the clock (in 5 years)and no mechanical issues at all. The battery has no noticeable degradation and the cost of those 150000kms has been about a quarter of what I would have paid driving an ice car. Win win win.
Not sure where you live. Around here it’s a problem for experienced drivers of ICE vehicles to learn how to feather their low-torque drivetrains in snow and on ice. You can see it at the bottom of the hills even with just a couple of inches of snow or a just a sheen of ice.
I live right in the center of the CONUS. We get snow and ice during winter. Usually not feet of snow but certainly inches worth. Most drivers are simply idiots on snow and ice. And they never learn.
I have driven any number of electric motor driven forklifts and skid steer vehicles. All low speed, high-torque. You have the same problems with them as you have with electric automobiles.
I really don’t care what your vehicle has done. You didn’t actually refute anything I asserted.
I am many weekends out in rural America tent camping with Boy Scouts, Viking clan, or at renaissance fairs. Not much opportunity for charging an electric vehicle. Thank you but I’ll keep my Honda Pilot so that I can carry 100 miles of fuel in a 5 gallon can and not have to abandon my vehicle in an emergency.
The average EV is 15%-30% heavier than its equivalent ICEV counterpart. The difference is so minor as to be irrelevant. My guess is that you have driven very little on snow or ice in any kind of vehicle, EV or ICEV. Your claims are laughable. But your knee is jerking, so here you are, making a complete fool of yourself.
I have owned 17 road vehicles. I have lived all of my life in places that can and often do get heavy snow.
Today, I own a 2WD Chevy Bolt EV that weighs 3,550 lbs., a 4WD diesel Ram 3500 that weighs 8,000 lbs., and a 4WD gas Toyota RAV-4 that weighs 3,675 lbs. You’re going to tell me that the Ram is unsafe because of its weight and the Bolt is unsafe because the speed is uncontrollable? What ignorance. How utterly stupid. Really, you don’t have a clue, and boy does it ever show.
Genius, the #1 factor for snow and ice by far is tires. #2 is the drive, 2 or 4 wheels. The Ram 3500 has winter tires with studs from December through March. It’s the default in snow or ice. I don’t need chains. The Toyota has all-season tires and is second best because of 4WD. The Bolt is #3 because the tires are low-resistance not designed for snow or ice, and it’s 2WD. No matter what you drive, caution is the watchword on slick roads.
You know NOTHING. Stay in Florida, Gomer. And stop pontificating about what you clearly do not know. LOL
Feel better now?
Why is it that the leftists on here can never read for meaning and context? I never said that EV’s have poor starting traction, I said most drivers can’t use them properly. And totally ignored the fact that the heavier EV’s need more spacing distance because of increased stopping distances for a heavier vehicle?
Their knees jerk uncontrollably?
You are naturally generous and community minded. Crashing a heavy EV because of the inexperience you are describing will endanger OTHERS, these cocky youths just think about themselves
“ My guess is that you have driven very little on snow or ice in any kind of vehicle,”
That’s the *BEST* you got for a refutation?
If you had actually read what I said, you would have seen that I said: “This is a disadvantage on snow and ice where stopping distances are important.”
I didn’t say that EV’s don’t have good traction. I said MOST DRIVERS don’t know how to drive them properly in snow and ice. Most drivers don’t know how to drive ICE vehicles properly in snow and ice!
You didn’t mention stopping distance even once. Why is it that leftists on WUWT all have such poor reading comprehension skills? Have a conversation with your local highway patrol officer about the need to increase spacing when driving a heavy EV on snow and ice. The same thing applies to your RAM! If you haven’t learned that simple truth by now then you are a danger on the road!
So Tim you make a fair point re weight, but you miss some of the advantages of an EV on ice and snow, so in the hope you genuinely want the full picture, here they are…
While I have been accused of living where there is no snow, I actually live in a rural area where we do get snow, usually not as deep as in more northern states but still more than sufficient to have 60 years of experience in driving in snow. Much of the hype for EV’s having advantages over ICE vehicles in snow is just that – hype.
I have driven all kinds of things in snow, from dirt bikes to 2-ton farm trucks. I can assure you that USUALLY, an unloaded 2-ton farm truck trying to reach a destination (like a watering point) can traverse in snow better than one fully loaded with feed. On ice there really isn’t much difference.
Tim and when you drove the modern EV, how did you find it on snow?
Who said I drove one in the snow? You making up things again?
Sorry I’m confused I thought you were speaking from experience. Are you saying you are commenting on EV’s without ever having driven one on snow?
Of course you are confused. That seems to be endemic among CAGW advocates. It comes from being unable to read for meaning and context. Cherry picking and putting words in people’s mouth tend to cause that.
Over the past 60 years of driving I’ve driven everything ranging through a go-kart, dirt bike, light sports car, Lincoln Continental, International Harvester Travellall, 4W F100 Ford, 1940-era Army Jeep, a modern 2-door Jeep, a dual-rear wheel 2-ton farm truck (loaded and unloaded), and even a restored Model A Ford.
Do you have even a clue as to which I would pick if I had only one vehicle to traverse adverse conditions including mud, deep snow, ice, rain, etc?
Do you have even a clue as to why I would choose it?
Ever see an off-road rock crawler? Ever see a Tesla modified for that?
Wow, that is one crazy long list. You are a regular vehicle aficionado. I’m surprised you didn’t list the Millennium Falcon.
But….despite your wide and impressive vehicle background, I’ll note there is no mention of you ever driving an EV on ice. In fact no mention of you driving an EV.
Pardon me if I am a little skeptical about your apparent “overwhelming” knowledge in this area. I think this is justified, because despite your wealth of knowledge and experience in driving a variety of vehicles, the one you are critical of and feel justified in commenting on… you appear to have have never driven. Maybe look up the Dunnings Kruger effect.
So what? I have driven HEAVY vehicles on ice. That’s basically all an EV is, a vehicle that is heavier than an ICE vehicle of the same style. I *have* driven a 1958 Chevy pickup with a compound low gear (do you even know what that is?) on ice using a manual transmission. Same increase in torque at the rear wheels at low rpm’s with more control over the drivetrain. Just like an EV.
You keep refusing to address the issue of STOPPING heavy vehicles on ice. Why is that?
Right back at you! You’ve not driven most of the vehicles I have. Yet you feel *YOU* are justified in commenting on how they are not the equal of an EV in adverse conditions?
Does the phrase “pot calling the kettle black” ring any bells with you?
And I see you didn’t answer the question about the rock crawler either. I didn’t figure you would.
“So what? I have driven HEAVY vehicles on ice. That’s basically all an EV is, a vehicle that is heavier than an ICE vehicle of the same style…..”
If you think driving a large truck, is basically like driving an EV, because they are both heavy…… that’s like saying Trump is like Oliver Hardy because they are both heavy. Actually maybe you do have a point….Yep you win.
Have *YOU* driven a heavy truck loaded with hay or grain in deep snow to feed your herd of cattle?
If not then how can *YOU* judge what it’s like? You just keep violating your own rule, hypocrite!
You know NOTHING. Stay in Florida, Gomer.
Again, this is the best you got? You really haven’t demonstrated any knowledge of vehicle physics at all. Have you *EVER* wondered how an old Model A Ford managed traversing mud and snow so well?
I have decades of experience driving in snow and ice. 17 vehicles: gas, diesel, electric. Light, medium, heavy. All-season tires, snow tires, studded tires, chains. Nope, I’m not a pathetic Florida vintage car collector, so no Model A. You know NOTHING. Stay in the sunbelt with that jerking knee.
So no answer on how an old Model A managed traversing mud and snow so well. I didn’t expect to get one.
And apparently, you have a reading comprehension skill issue as well. I gave you a hint as to where I live.
My uncle taught me to drive in a Ford without synchromesh which required starting with a crank handle at the front.
Changing up and down gears required an ear tuned to the sound of the rotational speed of the engine.
I still prefer a manual in snow and heavy rain particularly on unsealed road, of which there are many including the one past my farm gate.
The manual transmission coupled with a 6-cyl with big buckets and long rods for torque works well in *all* situations, snow/mud/ice/gravel/etc. *YOU* have control and aren’t dependent on a computer to make the best use of the drive-train.
Glitch? Replies do not show just a “View Replies” button that does not work. When I press it the action indicator briefly indicates things are happening but the replies do not appear.
Now the replies all appear as before. Gremlins?
I refresh the page – for Word Press only. It often forgets I’m logged in and ignores votes and attempts to comment. A refresh and everything goes back to normal. Only happens a few times a day.
Arctic warming 1922 NY Times
Apparently the Sphinx snow patch, the longest lasting in Scotland, melted again this year. It was still there in the first week of October but last week someone couldn’t find it. After a difficult trudge through deep snow he reached the spot and even after digging away all the snow he couldn’t find the snow patch. I hope he replaced the snow as that should have been part of the 2027 Sphinx.