AI-Model Collapse

Guest Opinion by Kip Hansen — 27 August 2024 — 1200 words

Last week I wrote an article here titled:  “Illogically Facts —“Fact-Checking” by Innuendo”.  One of my complaints about the fake fact-check performed by three staff at Logically Facts was that it read suspiciously like it had been written by an AI-chat-bot, a suspicion bolstered by the claim-to-fame of Logically Facts is that it is an AI-based effort. 

I made the following statements:

Logically Facts is a Large Language Model-type AI, supplemented by writers and editors meant to clean-up the mess returned by this chat-bot type AI.    Thus, it is entirely incapable to making any value judgements between repeated slander, enforced consensus views, the prevailing biases of scientific fields and actual facts.  Further, any LLM-based AI is incapable of Critical Thinking and drawing logical conclusions.”

“Logically Facts and the rest of the Logically empire, Logically.ai, suffer from all of the major flaws in current versions of various types of AIs, including hallucination, break-down and the AI-version of “you are what you eat”.

The article is very well written and exposes one of the many major flaws of modern AI-Large Language Models (AI LLMs).   AI LLMs are used to produce both text response to chat-bot type questions, internet  “searches”, and to build on-request images.

It has long been known that LLMs can and do “hallucinate”.  The Wiki gives examples here.  IBM gives a very good description of this problem – which you should read right now – at least the first half-dozen paragraphs have a moderate understanding how these examples could occur:

“Some notable examples of AI hallucination include:

  • Google’s Bard chatbot incorrectly claiming that the James Webb Space Telescope had captured the world’s first images of a planet outside our solar system. [NB:  I was unable to verify this claim – kh]
  • Microsoft’s chat AI, Sydney, admitting to falling in love with users and spying on Bing employees
  • Meta pulling its Galactica LLM demo in 2022, after it provided users inaccurate information, sometimes rooted in prejudice.

So, the fact that AI LLMs can and do  return not only incorrect, non-factual information, but entirely “made up” information, images, and even citations to non-existent journal articles, should shatter any illusion you might have as to the appropriate uses of chat-bot and AI search engine responses, even to fairly simple inquiries. 

Now we add another layer of actuality, another layer of reality, to the lens through which you should view AI LLM based responses to questions you might pose to it.  Remember, AI LLM are currently being used to write thousands of “news articles” (like the suspect Logically Facts “analysis” of climate denial), journal papers, editorials, scripts for TV and radio news. 

AI LLMs:  They are What They Eat

This latest article in the New York Times [repeating the link]  does a good job of describing and warning us of the dangers of LLMs being trained n their own output. 

What is LLM training?

“As they (AI companies) trawl the web for new data to train their next models on — an increasingly challenging task — they’re likely to ingest some of their own A.I.-generated content, creating an unintentional feedback loop in which what was once the output from one A.I. becomes the input for another.”

The Times presents a marvelous example of what happens when an AI-LLM is trained on its own output, in this case, hand-written digits it should be able to read and reproduce:

One can see that even in the first training on self-generated data, the LLM returns incorrect data – the wrong digits:  The upper-left 7 becomes a 4, the 3 below that becomes an 8, etc.  As that incorrect data is used to train the LLM further, after 20 iterations of re-training, the data (digits returned) is entirely undependable.  After 30 iterations, all of the digits have become homogenized, basically representing nothing at all, no discernible digits, all the same.

The Times article, which was written by Aatish Bhatia, quite cleverly quips this as “Degenerative A.I.

Think of the implications of this training when it has already become impossible  for humans to easily distinguish between AI generated output and human written output.  In AI training, it is only words (and pixels in case of images) that are included in the probability determination that results in the output – the AI answering for itself:  “What is the most likely word to use next?”.

You really must see the examples of “Distribution of A.I.-generated data“ used in the Times article.  As an AI is trained on its own previous output (“Eats itself” – kh) the probability distributions become narrower and narrower and the data less diverse.

I wrote previously that “The problem is immediately apparent:  in any sort of controversy, the most “official” and widespread view wins and is declared “true” and contrary views are declared “misinformation” or “disinformation”.  Individuals representing the minority view are labelled “deniers” (of whatever) and all slander and libel against them is rated “true” by default.“

With today’s media outlets all being generally biased in the same direction, towards the left, liberalism, progressivism and in favor of a single party or viewpoint (slightly different in each nation), AI LLMs become trained and thus biased to that viewpoint – the major media outlets being pre-judged as “dependable sources of information”.  By the same measure, sources with opinions, viewpoints or facts contrary to the prevailing bias are pre-judged to be “undependable sources of information, mis- or disinformation”.

AI LLMs are thus trained on stories mass-produced by AI LLMs, slightly modified by human authors to read less machine-generated, and subsequently published in major media outlets.  Having “eaten” their own output repeatedly, AI LLMs give narrower and less diverse answers to questions, which are less and less factual. 

This leads to:

As a LLM is trained on its own data “the model becomes poisoned with its own projection of reality.

Consider the situation we find in the real world of climate science.  The IPCC reports are generated by humans from the output of climate scientists and others in trusted peer-reviewed science journals.  It is well known that non-conforming papers are almost entirely excluded from journals because they are non-conforming.  Some may sneak through, and some may find a pay-to-play journal that will publish these non-conforming papers, but not many see the light of day.

Thus, only consensus climate science enters the “trusted literature” of the entire topic.  John P.A. Ioannidis has pointed out that “Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias.”

AI LLMs thus are trained on trusted sources that are already biased by publication bias, funding bias, the prevailing biases of their own fields, fear of non-conformity and group-think.   Worse yet, as AI LLMs thus train themselves on their own output, or output of other AI LLMs, the results become less true, less diverse, and less dependable —  potentially poisoned by their own false projections of  reality.

In my opinion, many sources of information are already seeing the effects of impending AI LLM collapse – the subtle blurring of fact, opinion and outright fiction.

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Author’s Comment:

We live in interesting times. 

Be careful what information you accept – read and think critically, educate yourself from original principles and basic science. 

Thanks for reading.

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August 27, 2024 3:03 pm

How would AI LLM have dealt with Galileo and his difference of opinion with the Vatican? In fact if AI LLM were to run with all available data just prior to some major discovery surely those discoveries and insights will appear, and perhaps better?

August 27, 2024 4:02 pm

Is this not the computerised equivalent of ‘Chinese whispers’? (Are we allowed to use that term nowadays?)

From Wiki:

In 2012 a global game of Chinese Whispers was played spanning 237 individuals speaking seven different languages. Beginning in St Kilda Library in Melbourne, Australia, the starting phrase “Life must be lived as play” (a paraphrase of Plato) had become “He bites snails” by the time the game reached its end in Alaska 26 hours later

Bob
August 27, 2024 4:05 pm

Very nice Kip, well done. I have no confidence in AI, it seems to be a managed internet search engine. The first thing that should happen is AI should be forbidden to call things disinformation or misinformation. The only comment AI should make is that there are other points of view.

Admin
August 27, 2024 8:55 pm

AI often contain layers which deliberately degrades the input, otherwise they can fall into the trap of overtraining, the AI equivalent of groupthink. So it is no mystery that repeatedly applying the deliberate degradation layer destroys the pattern.

observa
August 28, 2024 7:06 am

Think of the implications of this training when it has already become impossible for humans to easily distinguish between AI generated output and human written output.

Apart from AI becoming addicted to porn and dating itself we won’t be able to trust anything digitally presented so we’ll have to go back to face to face over the counter transactions.

August 28, 2024 8:42 am

I tried perplexity with a simple question about what is the measurement uncertainty of a group of numbers. It responded with the answer that u=SD/√n. I asked several questions about why divide by √n. It kept saying that scientists and engineers expected that the uncertainty in the mean shows the variation in the mean.

Ah, I said, now I know what is going on. Perplexity was assuming that the measurements were of the exact same thing, i.e., repeatable conditions. It never stated outright what it’s answer was based upon.

When I began asking about reproducibility conditions it began with a lengthy discussion about the variation in measurements under these conditions and gave the correct answer with references. That is you use the standard deviation for the uncertainty.

If I had not known enough to ask the proper questions , I would have used the wrong answer. The AI should have prompted for more information or given a tutorial about repeatable conditions versus reproducibility conditions.

Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 28, 2024 9:38 am

Yes, I’ve had similar experiences, when it assumed as a precondition a situation applicable to the question, but you only found that out when questioning further.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 28, 2024 1:14 pm

Kip, thanks for the mention.

I am still working on a treatise about uncertainty. It got to be about 15,000 words. It dawned on me that I was writing a book. I have since been trying to break it up into parts. That is hard with a complicated subject.

I’ll let you know when I am satisfied.

Reply to  Kip Hansen
August 30, 2024 11:38 pm

Perplexity was assuming that the measurements were of the exact same thing, i.e., repeatable conditions.

Its entirely valid to make assumptions when answering questions. Interaction with AI is a dialog for best results just like it is for people. Ask for the assumptions if you need clarification.

The underlying reason for this outcome is that the AI LLM does not actually know things

But this is patently incorrect. It answered correctly given its assumptions. Jim was expecting something different and once the assumptions were altered, the AI answered as expected.

Jim has had the same discussion with humans here at WUWT many many times, trying to get others to realize that they were making the same mistake as in the AI LLM’s first answer

And what does this tell you about the validity of the answer?

The AI should have prompted for more information or given a tutorial about repeatable conditions versus reproducibility conditions.

The AI isn’t built to be the instigator of dialog. But you can ask for the assumptions or additional details for yourself.

Reply to  TimTheToolMan
August 31, 2024 7:31 am

Its entirely valid to make assumptions when answering questions.

If assumptions are made in determining an answer, those assumptions should be stated when giving an answer

Otherwise anyone, including an AI, is not giving the WHOLE answer to the question.

You see it here all the time. Averages with no variance, graphs with no error bars, anomalies that don’t inherit variances from their parent distributions.

The AI isn’t built to be the instigator of dialog.

It doesn’t have to be an instigator of dialog when asking for assumptions necessary for correct calculations.

This is common to all the AI’s I have tested. They never recognize the need for determining proper assumptions. It’s like the programmer’s have programmed them to believe they always have the correct answer even when the question has various different solutions. I assume the AI picks the most common occurrence and spits it out. This goes along with the essay discussing how reinforcement fosters more reinforcement.

Reply to  Jim Gorman
August 31, 2024 1:22 pm

If assumptions are made in determining an answer, those assumptions should be stated when giving an answer

ChatGPT often does give its workings but to satisfy your requirement the AI would need to ask itself for the underlying assumptions to be stated. It’s a separate request.

It’s unreasonable to think AI can know what assumptions to state for all questions and when it needs to do it.

But you can ask it to do that and it will.

It doesn’t have to be an instigator of dialog when asking for assumptions necessary for correct calculations.

Asking for assumptions is instigating dialogue.

I assume the AI picks the most common occurrence and spits it out.

No, not the most common occurrence. I would describe it’s answer as being the understanding derived from the conversation of the session. A session is specific sequence of dialog with the AI.

If I gave you one shot at answering a question you’d need to make assumptions and answer it. You can’t magically know which assumptions were wanted to be used and whether they should be stated unless that’d come up previously in dialog.

Sparta Nova 4
August 28, 2024 11:47 am

I trust AIs to about the same extent I trust solar panels. Both have niche applications where they will be useful and beneficial, but there is no panacea. Both come with rather troubling dark sides as well.

August 28, 2024 2:12 pm

I’ve always said “AI in, Garbage out” I’ve tweeted this many times.

August 29, 2024 9:09 pm

In a comment the other day, I invoked the old song lyric: “battle lines getting clearer,” and decided to search for what song it was from. I thought it might have been Crosby, Stills, Nash and Young, so I entered the lyrics and those names, but nothing came up. 

I have avoided all AI search to this point, but I couldn’t help noticing that the Bing AI chat box was claiming a result: “Ah, those iconic lyrics! 🎶 ‘Battle lines getting clearer’ is from the song ‘Southern Cross’ by Crosby, Stills & Nash.”

So I looked up the lyrics to “southern cross” by Crosby, Stills and Nash and…. not anything the slightest bit like “battle lines getting clearer”! 

What??? Bing AI was just making stuff up, in an effort to get engagement maybe? Is that the criterion? Is it programmed to do whatever is most likely to get a click?

A subsequent commenter told me he thought the lyric was from Buffalo Springfield, in their song “For What It’s Worth,” which turned out to be correct. (“There’s battle lines being drawn, Nobody’s right if everybody’s wrong.”)

Crazy that Bing would tell me what it could easily verify to be false.

Elon has said that for AI not to be perverse, it needs to focus on discerning what is true.

That is correct. It can’t be starting with any presumptions of what is true, or pursuing any other criterion besides truth. To be useful it needs to be helping us to sus out the evidence for what is true, unadulterated by any ulterior motives.

Any other programmed-in objective, or any other emergent objective, is flat-out dangerous, as the AI will start slanting information or making stuff up in order to manipulate us in pursuit of it’s ulterior objectives.

There is no hope of keeping it focused on truth if we don’t at least start it out focused on truth.

August 30, 2024 1:46 am

AI is complete BS. Ask it to write some guitar tab for a simple style of music, 1970s rock for example. It cant even get the key right, and then ask for a solo, and it thinks a pentatonic scale is a mixolydian jumbled up with aeolian! It is utter crap, it hasnt got the first idea about music theory! Clearly this is just a load of text off the net thrown together. And that is what AI is, a vast language model than munges text, almost all of which is English, off the net.