From NOT A LOT OF PEOPLE KNOW THAT
By Paul Homewood
Yesterday’s BBC article about the Lords bemoaning “misinformation” about EVs mentioned this govt website, which supposedly offers us the truth.
In fact it is pure gaslighting, trying to convince people that the facts say something which they don’t:
Let’s run through some of the Q & As:
The harsh reality, of course, is that trade in prices are so low that buyers of new EVs now face massive depreciation costs. And the reason why second hand values have fallen so much is that nobody wants to buy one!
.
https://notalotofpeopleknowthat.files.wordpress.com/2024/02/image-37.png
In short, a petrol model that costs £30,000 will now cost you £42000 for the electric version.
.
The analysis comes from the highly unreliable ECIU, and their costings for a petrol car includes fuel duties, which sooner or later will have to be paid by all drivers, in one form or another. Assuming 10,000 miles a year, and 40 mpg, fuel duty would cost a typical driver around £790 pa.
There also seems to be no allowance for higher insurance costs for EVs.
.
The SMMT figures are based on manufacturer advertised ranges, not real world, which can often be little more than half in practice. Also the use of an average of 300 miles is grossly misleading, as you would only get such mileages on expensive, top of the range cars.
The Nissan Leaf, for instance, advertises a range of 168 miles, based on lab tests, But its “real world” range calculator knocks this down to just 99 miles in cold weather at motorway speeds:
https://www.nissan.co.uk/vehicles/new-vehicles/leaf/range.html
.
Again, the petrol running costs include fuel duty.
And why is there no mention of public charger prices, which are two or even three times as much as home charging costs.
.
Utterly irrelevant. Of course most EV drivers have access to home charging, as they would not have bought them otherwise.
The key statistic is the 40%+ of drivers who don’t have access.
This is part of a long puff piece about how many chargers are being built.
But the simple truth is that the government cannot guarantee to any EV driver that he will get immediate access to a charger, wherever and whenever, without having to queue.
.
Taking 24 minutes, and three times as long on a 50kW charger, is bad enough. But if there are a couple of cars ahead of you in the queue, you might be waiting for hours.
.
Nobody has suggested that EVs cannot tow caravans. The issue is with the range.
An analysis by Caravan Times three years ago, based on a Tesla 3 and the smallest caravan available, found that towing reduced the range by about 60%.
.
If a business had provided such misleading advertising, the Advertising Standards Agency would have come down on them like a ton of bricks!
Discover more from Watts Up With That?
Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.
Never underestimate the power of carefully crafted bullshit.
I note no mention is made of insurance costs…
We’ve just been notified that our insurance rate in New Jersey for our ICE cars is increasing by 23%. The reason given is ”Rising repair costs and increasing disaster related claims”. What I suspect they are not telling us is that the burden of high insurance costs to EV owners are being diluted by raising ICE rates.
Also interesting is in Fox News report on the subject, “increasing disasters” was blamed by “climate change”.
Also, in general EV tires and brakes wear more quickly, creating more particulate emissions, as well as increasing maintenance costs. A host of fundamental issues arise from EV’s weight due to their heavy batteries. Impulse, momentum and energy increase with mass.
Do brakes on EVs last longer?
Regenerative braking technology allows energy to be saved with each stop of the EV, the brake pads experience less wear and tear. This allows for EVs to need brake pad replacement nearly half as often as a comparable sized ICE vehicle.
EV tires wear out faster, so this seems to offset the longer brake pad life
Oops, you’re right about the regenerative brakes. It seems that all EVs sold today incorporate some form of regenerative braking.
If regenerative brakes were that good of a deal, you would see them being put on ICE vehicles as well.
Regenerative brakes generate electricity used only by electric motors
An internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicle can’t turn kinetic energy back into petrol – it just heats up the brakes. An EV can turn the momentum you are burning off when you brake back into electricity.
Irrelevant – regen braking on a ICE car would work the same way as on an EV, though it wouldn’t necessarily have to charge the battery, it could just burn off the generated electricity through a load like a big resistor.
I would think that EVs have to have regular brakes because of safety reasons – cuising along and suddenly there’s an electrical or electronic fault then you need regular brakes to make sure you stop.
Anyone here actually have an EV, and can tell us what really happens?
Whether the brake pads last longer depends entirely on the type of driving you do.
Regenerative brakes are nearly useless in stop and go driving.
WRONG
Regenerative braking is far more effective in city driving with stop-and-go traffic rather than smooth-sailing on a highway. This is because the more you brake, the more energy you’ll capture. Similarly, driving uphill won’t generate a lot of recycled energy because you rarely use the brake.
Wrong, the slower the car is going, the less effective regen brakes are.
Below something like 20mph, regen brakes start consuming more power than they are generating.
The reason for this is simple, as I’ve explained to you several times.
The amount of power generated by a generator is proportional to the strength of the magnetic field it is being turned through, and how fast it is being turned through that field.
As the car slows down, the speed at which the rotor is being turned, also slows down.
You have no idea what you are bloviating about.
Regenerative brakes do not stop working below 20mph, which is a number you pulled out of your a..
And since when is all city driving at 20mph or less?
The NYC citywide maximum speed limit is 25 mph unless otherwise posted.
What happens to regenerative braking when battery is full?
While the efficiency of regenerative braking will vary from vehicle to vehicle, it is usually between 60-70% of the kinetic energy that is recovered through regenerative braking. When a battery is fully charged however, it can’t accept any more charge so all regenerative braking power is wasted.
That doesn’t make any sense electrically – a slow moving car isn’t going to induce enough current to slow down quickly – basically the motor is going to draw power from the battery to slow down by practically running in reverse.
Traveling down hill at regular speeds would generate a lot of power from all the induced current from the quick turning armature. It’s to bad EVs don’t have gears because they could generate even more – like downshifting for ICE engine braking.
Regenerative brakes work by reversing electric motors that propel a vehicle. It works like a generator and feeds energy back into the hybrid or electric system to help replenish a little bit of range.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
The more you brake, the more you need to accelerate back to traveling speed. Acceleration of the mass requires more energy than can ever be captured by regenerative brakes: basic thermodynamics.
Did you overdose on stupid pills today?
Regenerative braking captures up to three quarters of the kinetic energy that would otherwise be lost as heat.
This has nothing to do with acceleration.
Also what is not mentioned is that most EVs will cover around 4 miles per kWh. The average daily mileage in UK (government figures based on MOT test mileage) is around 40 miles per day. Therefore the average EV will require 10kWh or charge per day.
10kWh per day also happens to be the average electricity consumption (excluding heating) for a three-bedroom family house.
So even the best case is that if every family owned a single EV, the electricity used by the family would double and if recharging is done overnight then for domestic purposes the grid would need to provide more power overnight than it does now in the day. So off peak rates would disappear.
And, given some households own and use more than one vehicle daily, the additional capacity required in the grid would be so high as to cause overloads and outages or a very costly upgrading would be required. The cost of which should be borne by EV users alone.
Important point: “some households own and use more than one vehicle daily” 👍
I can see it now, family wars, as they fight for the charger. And even if they did have multiple chargers, they’d need a bigger circuit connection to the house.
In fact, thinking about it, the entire neighbourhood supply circuits, would need upgrading. A project, massively greater, than installing broadband.
I can see family wars, as they fight for the who gets to drive the ICE or hybrid, and who gets stuck with the EV.
😂
Definitely! I only have 100 amp service at 120V – 12kW service.
As I said on these pages a few weeks ago, the electricity supply to the town where I live has just been doubled in capacity. This has cost £10M. That is £1000 per person or about £3000 per household. This cost will be either dumped on to energy bills or the taxpayer. There are 4 charging points in car parks in the town and are usually out of order.
Charging EVs after weekday dinner or before breakfast will not require a grid upgrade but .. alot of EVs chargin during those peak electricity consunptios hours would be a problem. I can see smart meters prventing EV charging during those h hours, whch I do not like.
During those hours there will be little or no sunlight and wind power will be highly variable.
Both sun and wind do not provide reliable maximum power when there is maximum electricity consumption.
Adding EVs and heat pumps to the grids just makes the potential problems worse.
This is what happens when leftists, who know nothing about everything, decide to re-engineer electric grids and fuels used for energy.
Almost 7 billion people around the world are watching the 1 billion in nations who seem to buy into Nut Zero, and wondering what they are all smoking.
As long as the number of EVs stays in the single digits percentage wise, careful management of when the EVs charge might be able to prevent the need for a grid upgrade.
Once you get above that, the total amount of energy being drawn, even over night starts going up.
Just like when the percentage of wind and solar on the grid is under 10%.
That seems to be a frequent complaint about public chargers – are they made out of tissue paper?
I think I’ve seen an out-of-order gasoline pump maybe, maybe once a year or 2, and most of the time it had something to do with the electronics – it couldn’t take payments or the card reader was damaged. But of course there were working pumps also there so moving to a different one wasn’t a big deal and there was no wait.
I’ve been in places where the psychotics are allowed to run wild. They seemingly love to destroy any property used by people in common.
On average, modern electric cars have an an efficiency of 3 to 3.5 miles (4.8 to 5.6 kilometers) per kWh. On the low-end, some cars have 2.5 miles (4 kilometers) per kWh.
LEGISLATOR’s CHEVY BOLT CATCHES FIRE WHILE CHARGING ON DRIVEWAY IN VERMONT
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/chevy-bolt-catches-fire-while-charging-on-driveway-in-vermont
THETFORD; July 2, 2021 — A fire destroyed a 2019 Chevy Bolt, 66 kWh battery, battery pack cost about $10,000, or 10000/66 = $152/kWh, EPA range 238 miles, owned by state Rep. Tim Briglin, D-Thetford, Chairman of the House Committee on Energy and Technology.
He had been driving back and forth from Thetford, VT, to Montpelier, VT, with his EV, about 100 miles via I-89
He had parked his 2019 Chevy Bolt on the driveway, throughout the winter, per GM recall of Chevy Bolts
He had plugged his EV into a 240-volt charger.
His battery was at about 10% charge at start of charging, at 8 PM, and he had charged it to 100% charge at 4 AM; 8 hours of charging.
Charging over such a wide range is detrimental for the battery. However, it is required for “range-driving”, i.e., making long trips. See Note
NOTE: Range-driving is an absolute no-no, except on rare occasions, as it would 1) pre-maturely age/damage the battery, 2) reduce range sooner, 3) increase charging loss, and 4) increase kWh/mile, and 5) increase the chance of battery fires.
Charging at 32F or less
Li-ions would plate out on the anode each time when charging, especially when such charging occurred at battery temperatures of 32F or less.
Here is an excellent explanation regarding charging at 32F or less.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/263036/why-charging-li-ion-batteries-in-cold-temperatures-would-harm-them
Fire in Driveway
Firefighters were called to Briglin’s house on Tucker Hill Road, around 9 AM Thursday.
Investigators from the Vermont Department of Public Safety Fire and Explosion Investigation Unit determined:
1) The fire started in a compartment in the back of the passenger’s side of the vehicle
2) It was likely due to an “electrical failure”. See Note
NOTE: With a crushed gasoline car, you just put it in a melting pot to make new steel
That cannot be done with EVs
You have to partially disassemble, and put the parts in a hazardous waste facility, which has not been built yet, even in China, and the rest gets molten down. All a lot more expensive
I hear, the cost of insurance for an EV is about 2 to 3 times the cost of a gasoline car.
If an EV is in an accident, the battery may be jolted, which may damage cells, which may cause a future fire, in your garage.
Insurance companies are not stupid. Your house insurance may increase as well. The loser is YOU, not THEM
NOTE: Regarding the Chevy Bolt, it likely was one or more battery cells shorting out, which creates heat, which burns nearby items, which creates a fire that is very hard to extinguish. See Appendix
https://www.vnews.com/Firefighters-put-out-blaze-in-car-of-Vt-State-Representative-41272606
https://www.engadget.com/gm-chevy-bolt-fire-warning-215322969.html
https://electrek.co/2020/11/13/gm-recall-chevy-bolt-evs-potential-fire-risk/
GM Recall of Chevy Bolts
In 2020, GM issued a worldwide recall of 68,667 Chevy Bolts, all 2017, 2018 and 2019 models, plus, in 2021, a recall for another 73,000 Bolts, all 2020, 2021, and 2022 models.
GM set aside $1.8 BILLION to replace battery modules, or 1.8 BILLION/(68,667 + 73,000) = $12,706/EV.
https://insideevs.com/news/524712/chevrolet-bolt-battery-recall-cost/
https://thehill.com/policy/transportation/568817-gm-expands-bolt-ev-recall-to-include-73000-more-vehicles
Owners were advised not to charge them in a garage, and not to leave them unattended while charging, which may take up to 8 hours; what a nuisance!
I wonder what could happen during rush hour traffic, or in a parking garage, or at a shopping mall, etc.
Rep. Briglin heeded the GM recall by not charging in his garage. See URLs
https://www.ericpetersautos.com/2021/09/16/electric-social-distancing/
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/some-ne-state-governments-play-deceptive-games-with-co2-emissions
This happened a few weeks ago in Colorado.
Good one
That must be an expensive fire response.
Any chance of getting the cost of that response?
That neighborhood probably have a different view of EVs now.
The fire department spokesman (can I say that :-)) seems to think that the fire blanket will help smother the fire by depriving the burning batteries of oxygen.
The way I understood it is that the blanket helps to smother the spreading fire (i.e. to car parts outside the battery), not necessarily the fire in the battery itself.
This happened a few weeks ago in Colorado.
I wonder how many people who experience this ever buy another EV.
Where is Richard Greene.
I am sure he would tell you most of what you have said is incorrect.
I have not seen him post for a while.
I hope he and all of his various personalities are not in bad health.
I, as MANY of us here, often disagree with his comments, but I do not wish him ill.
See above.
I even get criticized for comments I never made.
Chevy Bolt is one of the few affordable EVs, Not that more expensive EVs have been more reliable.
My wife drives a Landrover equipped to tow a horse box on some journey’s of around 250 miles. She is an environmentally very friendly person and would like to help if she can! (Although I do see this enthusiasm waning).
Can anyone recommend an EV replacement? If we are able to sell the LR we will have around £30k to spend.
My wife has stated, on a few occasions, that she would definitely have range anxiety even if only travelling a short 200 mile round trip to a show and what if she needed to recharge at a public charging point with a horsebox in tow.
This will, of course, be forced upon the British public very ‘soon’.
Saddle up.
On a camel, and move to Gaza
The recommended replacement is the animal carried in the box.
Invest in oats.
Replace your old ICE Land Rover, if you must, with a new one pretty soon, and hang onto it.
Range anxiety is a problem in any BEV, but when towing, anxiety becomes certainty. The experience of, particularly, Ford Lightning drivers who tow is horrific. But it’s not confined to Fords, it’s common to all BEV’s.
Your wife would probably be forced to de-couple the horse box to charge her EV at a public charging point else block access for other EV’s who need to charge.
Personally, I don’t think the government compulsion to buy EV’s will be imposed. It’s likely to be pushed back or cancelled, manufacturers need certainty and if they can’t sell the things even when governments are offering incentives galore, they will have an even tougher job when mileage charges are imposed.
Sales are falling as consumer reluctance to buy is becoming more apparent. Businesses like Hertz are replacing fleets of EV’s with ICE cars. Ford has cancelled a battery factory in the US; a battery factory planned for the UK went bust and a British EV van manufacturer has also just gone bust.
Ford have all but stoped manufacturing their Lightning EV and GM has cancelled a long planned partnership with Honda to jointly manufacture EV’s.
I would wait until November. If Trump is elected all this goes away. He’s stated his intention not only to back away from the Paris agreement again, but make it an irreversible policy this time.
It’s getting so extreme the EU is proposing a law which forbids the repair of ICE vehicles. No one will tolerate that.
One more thing. The optimum charging time for an EV is between 20% and 80% charge. An EV shouldn’t be allowed to fall below 20% regularly or it damages the battery (as I understand it) and charging from 80% to 100% slows down to a crawl even on superchargers (as I understand it).
In essence the range quoted by the manufacturer is, in practical terms, 40% less.
Yup, and in cold weather you can knock off another 20% and towing a trailer will cost another <20+%. That takes a 300 mile EV down to 60 miles.
There is no harm in 90% with slow chargers. But even slow charging rates slow down dramatically past the 80% mark to protect the battery
Slow charging to100% is desirable for long trips (not recommended for EVs) but at a 480 volt DC level 3 charger on the road you’re getting to 80% and then the charging changes to slow speed, which would become a huge waste of your time
The battery deterioration from 480 volt changing is unknown but early evidence suggests not that large if you follow the 80% rule. But 480 volts is also expensive and inconvenient, especially if very cold outside and fast charging becomes slow charging as power is wasted to heat the car’s interior and battery case.
I have no idea why anyone would want an EV rather than an ICE or hybrid.
I’m not convinced hybrids are much use either. The risk of thermal runaway is still present, even if it is rare.
More to the point though, there doesn’t seem any sense in converting mechanical energy to stored electrical energy with the associated, inevitable losses. Some of which, when discharged to the electric motor, is required to overcome the weight of a battery that whilst smaller than in a BEV, is still a battery substantially heavier/larger than the petrol/diesel fuel needed to complete the same task.
The only advantage seems to be that you can poodle down to the local store for some beers and get back home on battery power alone.
However, if it’s a hybrid rather than a plug in hybrid, the ICE has to work harder and use more fuel to replenish the battery that you discharged getting your beers the night before.
Arguably a case can be made that the short trip for your beers might be done on a richer fuel mixture but only if the store is something less than a mile away.
A hybrid like the Prius has a relatively small battery under the front or rear seat where it is safe. The extra cost for a hybrid is not that much. But payback requires more than driving 5000 miles a year.
The maximum speed in EV mode is 100 km/h (62 mph), or 85 km/h (53 mph) on European models. With a weight of approximately 1,420 kg (3,130 lb), the plug-in version is only 50 kg (110 lb) heavier than the regular Prius. The Prius Plug-in has three drive modes, all-electric (EV), and two hybrid modes: Eco and Power.
I think if a driver had a lot of stop-and-go traffic driving then a hybrid might make sense. Might.
One of the most telling and damning facts about battery powered cars in the UK is you are not allowed to park one at the Westminster Parliament underground car park…..
Can I also say, towing with an EV is perfectly possible so long as the trailer is a diesel generator with a direct cable connecting it to the towing EV… 🙂
Westminster council is introducing a parking charge increase of 1,800% for EV’s. It will now cost £20 or £30 to park and one of the reasons given is the increased embedded lifetime CO2 cost to the planet of EV’s.
Quite an admission.
The parliament security is smart – the battery is a bomb. Imagine terrorists park a bunch of large battery EVs near the gas pipe in the car park – it would be hard to detect if they were modified…
Bookmark Mguy on Youtube as he’s caning them and I’ve fed him a couple of tips 😉
MGUY Australia – YouTube
Climate changers shouldn’t forget to charge them with Fickle Power-
Wind turbine destroyed by fire at Pacific Blue’s Clements Gap Wind Farm near Redhill – ABC News
(went live in 2010 apparently)
They start off cheap for the guinea pigs but then they have to earn a buck-
Electric-car charging network Evie increases prices by up to 40 per cent – Drive
Most EVs on the highway would require at least 20kWhrs/100kms (plug to wheel) so at 73c that would cost $14.60/100kms. Average ICE car could get 7L/100kms so at $2/Litre (petrol has been as low as $1.65 in Adelaide recently) you can see why EVs give country blokes brewer’s droop.
Not long now climate changers as even the MSM can’t continually ignore the bleeding obvious-
A Current Affair: The potential ticking time bomb hiding in most Australian households (nine.com.au)
UK sales of EV cars are mainly to companies to provide company cars for the managers, the tax benefits over an ICE company car cannot be ignored. This worked while the expected depreciation was the same as an ICE car. But the depreciation is much greater as the private buyers have realised the problems with owning an EV car. So the leasing companies are going to be putting their lease rates up significantly and this will negate the tax benefits. And here were have the higher depreciation being sold as a good thing, BS abounds.
“the tax benefits over an ICE company car”
Are becoming a thing of the past….
“This measure will equalise the Vehicle Excise Duty (VED) treatment of all zero emission and internal combustion engine (ICE) vehicles from April 2025. This change will apply to both new and existing alternatively fuelled vehicles (AFVs).
The Expensive Car Supplement exemption (ie >£40K) for EVs is due to end in 2025.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025/introduction-of-vehicle-excise-duty-for-zero-emission-cars-vans-and-motorcycles-from-2025
It not the VED that is the main tax benefit to an employee renting a company provided EV but the Benefit in kind ie the salary value it is said to represent.
Benefit in Kind (BIK) tax rules for electric vehicles EVs in the UK are significantly favourable compared to petrol or diesel vehicles. The BIK tax is determined as a percentage of the vehicle’s value, with the rate set by the government.
The BIK rate for EVs is set at 2% until the end of the 2024/25 tax year. The EV BIK rate will then increase by 1% each year, reaching 3% in 2025/26, 4% in 2026/27, and capping at 5% in 2027/28.
petrol cars typically have higher BIK rates. Petrol cars can have BIK rates that range from 16% to 37% depending on their CO2 emissions.
We have an “Office for Zero Emission Vehicles”? I wonder what the running costs are. And if its staff have the intelligence to figure out that there is no such thing as a zero emission vehicle.
They’re all going to run on fickle energy silly-
Danish windfarm firm Ørsted to axe up to 800 jobs and pause dividend (msn.com)
Electric cars saw their market share plunge by a quarter in Britain last month, as consumers freaked at the high prices and soaring insurance costs.
“”The House of Lords was told that Rowan Atkinson – aka Edmund Blackadder – had written a hugely ‘damaging’ article about electric cars last year
…
Companies that make EVs are reporting very slow business indeed. A considerable lack of interest from the likes of you. Shocking, huh?
And do you know whose fault it is? Yes, you got it in one — it’s Blackadder’s fault.
…
Sales of electric cars have also slumped in Germany. Maybe the Germans are all worried about what Blackadder thinks of them, too. The truth is, the green lobby is panicking. Not just here but right across the developed world. In country after country, people are suddenly twigging that they’ve been fed a pack of porkies.””
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25793766/electric-vehicles-truth-tackle-climate-change/
1 million registered… but far from sold
“””Manufacturers have been asked to supply the vehicles, we now ask government to help consumers buy the vehicles””
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68199898
Given that most EVs cost a quite a bit it seems somewhat odd that nobody is mentioning the new tax rules that are in the pipeline. EVs are losing their exemption from Vehicle Excise Duty and are now having to cough up their share, but there’s a sucker punch to go with that…
The £40,000 car tax rule
“”After the first year, owners of cars that cost more than £40,000 have to pay an additional annual supplement of £390 for five years – adding up to £1,950 in total. “”
https://www.which.co.uk/reviews/new-and-used-cars/article/car-tax-explained-aqnPf4D3c26Y#what-is-the-40000-car-tax-rule
Finding an ICE vehicle under 40 grand isn’t hard. And the price doesn’t limit its range.
And are the EV owners paying their share to keep up the roads in the UK?
They aren’t in the US.
They probably aren’t anywhere in the world.
Nothing to do with Blackadder, it was Mr. Bean wot dun it.
The other consideration regarding charging cars at motorway service areas is that there’s often a time limit on how long you can stay , typically 2 hours. Any use of recharging stations is counted in the two hour limit, therefore if you have to wait more than a couple of hours you will be liable for a parking charge notice (typically £100).
On top of that the motorway service stations are extending their charger range (car parking spots) which reduces parking for everyone else – so now we have 10 or 20% of parking spaces (including disabled) reserved for maybe 5% of the potential customers.
Buyers are Avoiding EVs, a Key Pillar of Biden’s Fantasy Climate Agenda
https://www.windtaskforce.org/profiles/blogs/investors-are-avoiding-evs-a-key-pillar-of-biden-s-climate-agenda
EXCERPT:
Wow, it does not get much better than this.
The Washington, DC, perpetrators of these EV follies want to be re-elected to have power over you, to use more of your money, to do more of the same follies, “for as long as it takes”
All that is even more true, because the EV charging stations are unreliable, often are out of service, and to top it of, EVs are unreliable, have high repair bills, and have poor range in cold weather, especially when having more than one passenger, and some cargo, and going uphill, on cold, snowy days, as in New England, etc.
..
Currently, the vast majority of charging infrastructure is concentrated in more densely populated coastal areas, as opposed to more rural areas of the country, according to the Department of Energy (DOE).
Almost all people in rural areas, often with dirt roads, and snow and ice and cold, and longer distances, are definitely not giving up their pick-ups and SUVs to “switch to EVs”, especially in impoverished states, such as Maine and Vermont. Their Socialist governments lost all sense of reality, and think money grows on trees.
Insurance Costs Very High: Because EVs are much more costly to repair, EV insurance rates are about 3 times the rate of gasoline vehicles, completely wiping out any energy savings.
Monthly Payments Very High: Because EVs are more expensive and interest rates are high, monthly payments are much higher than for gasoline cars, completely wiping out any benefits of tax credit subsidies.
Useful Service Life Very Short: EV useful service lives are very short, usually at most 8 years.
No one in his/her right mind, would spend at least $15,000 to $20,000 to replace a battery in an 8-y-old EV, which by then. would have lost almost all of its value, unlike a gasoline vehicle.
Charging Cost Very High: EV charging cost is very high on the road, usually at least 30 c/kWh, at home at least 20 c/kWh in New England
As a result, annual fuel cost savings are minimal, because EVs are driven fewer miles per year than gasoline cars, and the price of gasoline is about $3.20/gallon
Minimal CO2 Reduction: EVs driven, on average, about 72,000 miles for 8 years, according to various studies, do not reduce CO2 emissions compared to efficient gasoline vehicles driven the same miles, if CO2 evaluations are made on a mine to hazardous-waste landfill basis, and same-mile basis.
The useful service lives of gasoline cars is much longer than of EVs.
Range Usually Much Less Than Advertised: EV owners experience much less range than advertised by EPA, especially with one or more passengers, with some luggage or a heavy load, cold weather, up and down hills, on wet/snowy dirt roads, hot weather, etc.
Teslas EVs, driven 75,000 to 80,000 miles, will have lost about 15 to 20% of battery capacity at end of year 8.
If traveling with one or more passengers, with some luggage, was a challenge on a longer trip, and even more of a challenge on a cold/snowy day, then an older EV has all that, and more, which is a good reason not to buy one.
Battery Aging a Serious Issue: If a new EV, it takes about 1.15 kWh to add a 1.0 kWh charge in the battery, plus, there is a loss of about 5% to get 1.0 kWh out of the battery to the drive train of the EV, etc.
If a 5-y-old EV, it takes about 1.25 kWh to add 1.0 kWh charge in the battery, plus there is a loss of about 5.5% to get 1.0 kWh out of the battery
The older the EV, the greater the losses, plus the battery has lost capacity, the ability to do work and go the distance; all that is worse on a cold day, or hot day, heavy loads, and other adverse conditions.
Charging Batteries at Less than 32 F: If an EV owner parks at an airport, goes away for a few days or a week, upon return he/she may find the EV with an empty battery (if the battery had a somewhat low charge to begin with), if during that week the weather were below freezing, because the battery thermal management system, BTMS, will maintain battery temperature, until the battery is empty, then the battery freezes to 32F, or less.
Charging would not be allowed, until the battery is warmed up in a garage.
In the future, with thousands of EVs at the airport, a percentage would have empty batteries. You would have to wait your turn to get a tow to the warm garage, get charged, pay up to $500, and be on your way, after 8 hours or so!!
Losing Value After 3 Years: Used EVs retain about 60% of their high original value, whereas gasoline vehicles retain at least 70% of their not so high original value, by the end of year 3.
Losing 40% of a $45,000 EV = $18,000
Losing 30% of an equivalent size, $35,000 gasoline vehicle = $10,500
The loss difference wipes out any tax credit subsidies.
The below yellow line is mostly for Teslas, because they are more ubiquitous
WILLPOST it’s long past time to cut the BS out of your anti-EV rant and strive for accuracy
Please stop making the idiotic FALSE statements that a battery life is 8 YEARS AND CHARGING UNDER 32 DEGREES F. IS DANGEROUS or impossible.
AN EV BATTERY WILL LAST LONGER THAN THE EV UNLESS DAMAGED BY AN ACCIDENT.
“Teslas EVs, driven 75,000 to 80,000 miles, will have lost about 15 to 20% of battery capacity at end of year 8.”
Total BS numbers pulled out of your a.. Loss of range will be about 1% a year.
“If an EV owner parks at an airport, goes away for a few days or a week, upon return he/she may find the EV with an empty battery”
That is also false… loss of range would be 2% to 4% a day at a very cold 0 degrees F.
YOU ARE permanently STUCK ON stupid.
“And why is there no mention of public charger prices, which are two or even three times as much as home charging costs.”
Wild guess, the government figure for home charging doesn’t include costs of the charger, installing the charger / upgrading the electrical service. Nor does it include certain increase in electricity cost as demand rises.
Don’t forget your own time – if it take 30 minutes longer to “fill up” then that’s £5 or £10 of your time wasted – so £250/£500 per annum extra time consumed ….
I am 100% anti-EV and anti-government mandates on automobiles, other than mandatory seat belts.
EVs have a huge number of disadvantages versus hybrids or ICEs and only two advantages I know of;
— Fast acceleration
— Fast working heaters
That’s it
The list of faults keeps growing and known faults turn out to be worse than we originally thought. I found another problem last week: The heavy EV pickup trucks and large EVs may be too heavy for some guardrails.
Electric Vehicles Have a New Problem: Careening Through Guardrails – IER (instituteforenergyresearch.org)
I have read studies showing a 1000 pound heavier vehicle is not that much more dangerous to your vehicle in a crash than a similar weight vehicle. But a Ford Lightening EV pickup would weigh 6500 pounds plus the driver, passenger(s) and luggage.
In the past three years my blog has recommended hundreds of anti-EV articles, including this morning on my daily recommended reading list:
The Honest Climate Science and Energy Blog
The only comments on EVs I have made that got a lot of attention here (all negative) was on the +50% US BEV sales gain in 2023 versus 2022, as if that did not happen.
This article includes one misleading claim:
“The SMMT figures are based on manufacturer advertised ranges, not real world, which can often be little more than half in practice.”
That is misleading. In the US, Ford engineers testing a variety of EVs sold in the US in late 2022 found a range reduction of 40% to 60% in zero degree F. weather in northern Minnesota. That is unusually cold, but far from a typical weather for an EV owner.
There is no doubt that the claimed EV range is for a 100% charge in mild weather not using the AC or heater, with just a driver and no luggage. The actual range on a long trip, which is always a challenge with EVs, depends on the initial charge, weather and how many passengers and their luggage are in the vehicle. You would start with a 100% charge to maximize range. No harm to the battery if you slow charge to 100%. You would drive to about a 20% charge before investigating where the next charging station is. You should get a charge by 10% because the percentage charge indicator is very inconsistent, according to Ford engineers. Nothing like a gasoline gauge.
When you stop to fast charge, expect to waste at least a half hour for an 80% charge. There may be no bathrooms nearby or snacks or drinks available. So read a book, and later stop at a gasoline station for bathrooms and snacks.
Every article I have read about long trips in an EV in the past three years has been a “we’ll never do that again” article.
Can an EV serve any purpose?
Yes. Tiny, cheap, lightweight city car EVs in China are okay for short trips to work or a local store and home. None meet US safety standards. They are better than glorified golf carts. But they do match the vehicle with the capability of the batteries.
Trailer trucks, buses and pickup trucks are the worst possible use for batteries.
A bus is heavy, carries a heavy load, and in the winter they have a large interior space to heat when the battery function is already limited by the cold weather.
That EV buses have been failing is no surprise. That no passenger has been killed is lucky.
“Lithium batteries should not exist”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIXTP-TgPEw&t=0s
Never a truer word spoken.
Tell that to a person with a pacemaker in his or her body
Discerning consumers must learn to distinguish information which is objective and factual from sales pitch, and they need to recognize who is the honest informer and who the snake oil purveyor. It’s a shame much of the government has chosen to be the latter.
This can be summed up in two points:
1) EVs are rubbish, but they are less rubbish than they used to be, so they are OK.
2) Most Ferrari drivers are happy with their Ferrari, so all other cars can be banned and everyone will be happy.
BTW – Geoff Buys Cars has a nice rant about this:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lF-227QeLXE
The scientifically and technologically illiterate Lords don’t even realise that they are hopelessly out of their depth.
The Lords went to the dogs when the politicians determined who could sit in the Lords.
Nor do they factor in depreciation.
and the really big depreciation is the battery. It effectively determines the value of the vehicle..
I’ve always gotten a kick out of insurance ads that proclaim that people who switch to their company saved an average of X dollars.
Obviously, if you aren’t going to save money, you probably won’t be switching.
The standard rejoinder for EV fires is that there are far more ICE vehicle fires by percentage. Probably true, but how many of those ICE fires occur when the car hasn’t been in an accident, is unattended while parked with no damage like in your garage while you are sleeping, consume everything around it, and are next to impossible to control?
Let’s face it, the UK government are as trustworthy as used car salesmen, so now it looks like they aspire to that vocation.
On the flip side they rmare wasting their time (and our money) – no-one is going to visit a government website for advice in buying a car.
Very nice Paul. Yet more proof that government should be as far removed as possible from energy production or transmission. It should never be allowed to pick winners and losers in the market. Government interference is a bad bad thing.
“99 miles in cold weather at motorway speeds”. I’m on the motorway, and the charging stations are 50 miles apart. I have to stop at all of them! Even at 40 miles apart, can I risk going past one?
From SW England to Scotland would take 2 days. Some years ago, in a petrol car of course, I left Somerset (SW England) early in the morning, and had morning tea at Gleneagles (way up in Scotland). One quick tank fill along the way
When all cars are EVs, Gleneagles will go bust.