Way back in October 2012, climate alarmist and activist Michael Mann brought a libel suit against Mark Steyn and Rand Simberg for allegedly defamatory blog posts that the two had written a few months previously. The case has gone through an incredible history of procedural twists and turns since then, a few of which I have covered in prior blog posts, for example here on March 20, 2014, and here on March 26, 2021. The trial finally started on January 16.
Probably most readers here are familiar with the case to at least some degree, and many may even be following the trial. (The court has a live feed available to the public. Follow this link at WattsUpWithThat if you want to tune in during the coming week.). I have watched some substantial chunks of the trial during its first two weeks.
Mann is best known as the creator of the famous “Hockey Stick” graph, purporting to be a world temperature reconstruction of the past thousand or so years, with essentially level temperatures until the 20th century, and then sharply rising temperatures in the 20th century era of human use of fossil fuels. Mann published versions of the figure in Nature magazine, originally in 1998; and the UN’s IPCC quickly (in 2001) seized on the Hockey Stick as its iconic demonstration that human use of fossil fuels was causing global warming. In the blog posts that are the subject of the case, Steyn and Simberg called Mann’s graph false and deceptive. (Steyn referred to Mann’s figure as “the fraudulent climate-change ‘hockey stick’ graph” while Simberg called out “[Mann’s] and others’ hockey stick deceptions.”) (Note: in multiple prior blog posts, I have also called Mann’s Hockey Stick graph fraudulent, for example here in August 2019.)
Truth is an absolute defense in a libel case, and Steyn has vowed to prove that his blog post was true. That would then mean that the Hockey Stick graph was indeed fraudulent. Many are therefore referring to this spectacle as “the Hockey Stick on trial.” And the Hockey Stick very much is on trial, at least as one of the issues in the case. However, if you have watched some of the proceedings — seven days’ worth so far — you are likely getting quite frustrated with how little the actual truth or falsity of the graph itself figures into the matter.
During most of the second week of trial, Michael Mann himself has been on the witness stand. He began by giving unenlightening and largely conclusory testimony that his Hockey Stick graph was not fraudulent. Then on Wednesday and Thursday he was under cross-examination, initially by a lawyer for Rand Simberg (Victoria Weatherford of Baker Hostetler). Steyn (who is doing his own cross-examination of witnesses) only got to start his cross after lunch on Thursday, and he was just reaching the issues of the Hockey Stick graph when 4:30 came and the trial adjourned for the weekend.
So what have they been talking about all that time without ever getting to the Hockey Stick? The answer is that there are plenty of other issues in a trial. One thing that is always an issue is the credibility of the plaintiff. And another issue that has taken up a good deal of time has been whether Mann has suffered any damages from the alleged defamation. On the issue of damages, Mann as plaintiff bears the burden of proof.
Let’s start with Mann’s credibility. It seems that when Mann commenced the case back in 2012, he put in his Complaint that he was a recipient of a Nobel Peace Prize, specifically for his work documenting the 20th century “rise in surface temperatures,” i.e., the Hockey Stick. Tony Heller at his Real Climate Science site has screenshots of portions of Mann’s original October 22, 2012 Complaint. The following is the text of paragraph 2 of the Complaint (emphasis added):
2. Dr. Mann is a climate scientist whose research has focused on global warming. Along with other researchers, he was one of the first to document the steady rise in surface temperatures during the 20th Century and the steep increase in measured temperatures since the 1950s. As a result of this research, Dr. Mann and his colleagues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
Prior to the Complaint, Mann had also posted on his website a picture of what appeared to be a certificate from the Nobel Institute documenting Mann’s receipt of the Peace Prize. Heller has a screenshot of the document from Mann’s website, although I cannot find it there today. Apologies if the picture quality is not very good:

It turns out that the upper part of that picture is the actual Nobel Institute certificate; but the lower portion, including the text reading “Presented to Michael E. Mann for contributing to the award of the Nobel Peace Prize” was not part of anything generated by the Nobel Institute. Rather, it was generated by the IPCC.
Immediately after Mann filed his Complaint, a guy named Thomas Richard of [the Washington Examiner] Examiner.com communicated with Geir Lundestad, Director of the Nobel Institute, pointing out that Mann was claiming to have received a Nobel Prize, and asking if that was accurate. Richard promptly (October 26, 2012) received a communication back from Lundestad as follows:
1) Michael Mann has never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
2) He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma.
3) The text underneath the diploma is entirely his own. We issued only the diploma to the IPCC as such. No individuals on the IPCC side received anything in 2007.
You can imagine how Steyn and the lawyers for Simberg are having a field day with this. In his testimony, Mann has attempted to spin this as an honest mistake — although somehow none of the other contributors to the IPCC made the same mistake of claiming that Nobel Prize was awarded personally to them. Mann has long since amended his Complaint to delete the claim that he is a Nobel Prize winner; but the original document remains in the court file of the case and cannot be made to disappear.
Then there is the issue of Mann’s many written acknowledgements thanking one Graham Spanier. Steyn spent most of Thursday afternoon confronting Mann on this issue.
If you don’t recognize Spanier’s name, here is some background. Graham Spanier became President of Penn State University in 1995, and was the President there when Mann was hired in 2005. In late 2009 there was a leak from the University of East Anglia in England of a large trove of emails in which Mann was a principal participant. The emails showed a close-knit group of prominent climate scientists engaging in what would appear from the face of the emails to be prima facie scientific misconduct — working to suppress all dissent from climate orthodoxy, controlling the peer review process in the main journals, and even discussing alterations of data in the context of the Hockey Stick graph itself. This collection of leaked emails came to be known as the “ClimateGate emails.”
Penn State’s administration, under Spanier, sprang into action to attempt to clear Mann. By February 2010, Penn State had stated that it found no evidence to support accusations against Mann; and on July 1, 2010 a special committee working under Spanier issued at report purporting to exonerate Mann of all wrongdoing.
Unfortunately for Mann, his scandal at Penn State took place contemporaneously with another scandal, also during the presidency of Spanier — that of long-time assistant football coach Jerry Sandusky. The Sandusky scandal became public in November 2011, upon Sandusky being indicted on 52 counts of child molestation that had occurred from 1994 to 2009. Sandusky, you will probably recall, had been an assistant football coach to long-time Penn State icon and hero Joe Paterno. Senior administrators at Penn State, including Spanier, had long known about accusations against Sandusky, and had been active participants in covering them up. After the November 2011 indictment, ex-FBI director Louis Freeh was brought in to do a full investigation of what had happened at Penn State, and he issued a scathing Report in July 2012, by which time Spanier had been forced to resign. Freeh’s Report was indeed the immediate impetus for the Simberg and Steyn blog posts that are the subject of the Mann v. Steyn lawsuit. From Steyn’s post:
[W]hen the East Anglia emails came out, Penn State felt obliged to “investigate” Professor Mann. Graham Spanier, the Penn State president forced to resign over Sandusky, was the same cove who investigated Mann. And, as with Sandusky and Paterno, the college declined to find one of its star names guilty of any wrongdoing.
Over the years since 2012, things have gotten steadily worse for Spanier. First he was forced to resign as President. Then he himself was indicted for obstruction of justice and other charges. Then he was facing trial. Then he was tried and convicted. And then he served a 60-day prison sentence.
Through all this, Michael Mann has written about one book about every 2 to 3 years. And each of them has thanked Graham Spanier in the acknowledgements. That may have been excusable back in 2012, when Spanier had just been accused of misconduct, but not yet indicted or convicted himself. But Steyn showed that Mann had continued to acknowledge Spanier through each stage of the process, including most recently in a book published in 2023.
Meanwhile, Ms. Weatherford devoted most of her cross to issues of damages. You might think that this would be rather dry stuff, and it is, but Mann never ceases to astonish with his audacity. Most notably, Mann’s principal theory of damages today appears to be that as a result of the claimed defamation, and the harm to his reputation, he has lost out on various government grants that he otherwise would have received. But it turns out that during the discovery process in the case Simberg’s lawyers demanded from Mann a list of all grants that he claimed he lost as a result of the defamation. Mann responded by objecting, saying that the information requested was “irrelevant to any issue in the case,” and not listing a single grant allegedly lost. Ms. Weatherford confronted Mann with his answers and made him acknowledge his signature under oath at the end of the document. Mann’s excuse for this answer was that his lawyers had advised him to give this response. How Mann can claim damages from lost grants after giving this answer, I have no idea.
So as I said earlier, when the trial adjourned at 4:30 on Thursday, Steyn had just begun his cross-examination on the subject of the Hockey Stick chart itself. That will now start up at 9:30 on Monday morning, and promises to be quite entertaining. For a preview of what might get covered, here is my blog post on the case from March 29, 2021, on the occasion of one of the many substantive motions briefed in the case. Mark Steyn had submitted a brief on March 3, outlining some of the evidence he had accumulated, much from the ClimateGate emails, as to the fraudulence of the Hockey Stick. Here, via my post, is an excerpt from that brief:
The [Hockey Stick graph as published in the IPCC’s Third Assessment Report in 2001, in a portion written by lead author Mann] omitted tree ring proxy data collected by climate scientist Keith Briffa that showed a decline in temperatures after 1960, a message inconsistent with the prized hockey stick shape. . . . The IPCC TAR did not disclose the deletion of this data. . . . As lead author, Mann decided to omit the Briffa data without the input of his other lead authors.. . . Mann’s own collaborators cautioned him against the deletion. IPCC TAR Coordinating Lead Author Chris Folland wrote to Mann that Briffa’s data “contradicts the multiproxy curve and dilutes the message rather significantly.”. . . Briffa himself urged Mann not to succumb to “pressure to present a nice tidy story” by “ignor[ing]” his post-1960 results. . . . Mann agreed with them on the merits but bemoaned the data’s political impact: “[I]f we show Keith’s series . . . skeptics [will] have a field day.” . . . To prevent a “skeptics’ field day,” he chose to delete the data.
So we await the continuation of Steyn’s cross on Monday morning.
UPDATES/CORRECTIONS, January 29, 2024:
(1) Several commenters point out that the prison term to which Graham Spanier was sentenced was only 60 days. I have checked, and that is correct. So it was incorrect to say that Spanier got a “long” prison sentence, or to imply that he is still there.
(2) I have a friend who has served on one of the IPCC working groups. (Yes, I know that’s crazy.) He informs me that the IPCC presented him with a document thanking him for his contribution to the IPCC’s 2007 Nobel Peace Prize, the document being much in the format of the one pictured above as to Mann. So it appears that the IPCC, rather than Mann, is the entity that created this document. However, it remains false for Mann to claim that he won the Nobel Prize.
I have corrected these matters above in my post.
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In the verbatim readings from the transcripts, it is amazing the number of ways Mann tries to squirm out of admitting he didn’t get the Nobel Prize. And how he tried to bully the Wikipedia editors to allowing him or one of his camp followers to say that he did.
I think that stolen valour line will certainly ring true with the jury. That and all the blaming of others for him perjuring himself. How can anyone be so stupid as to lie in court documents.
Bullies like Mann surround themselves with sycophant flunkies. Mann especially is so focused on maintaining his perfection persona that he assumes everyone is as impressed by him as he is.
He sounds awfully like Justin Trudeau.
It is not a lie when it is God’s work.
Mark Steyn will be well treated by historians, win or lose, as the person who shook the Global Warming™ edifice until it began to crack. If Mann loses the case, there should be a widespread demand to expel Mann from the National Academy of Sciences. He tarnishes any institution he is involved with.
The daily re-enactments in podcasts is a less tedious way to stay up to date with the case. This is Day 8 – Steyn’s questioning of Mann:
https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/unreported-story-society4/episodes/Bonus-Episode–Mark-Steyns-Full-Opening-Statement-e2f3c0v
DC votes about 90% Democrat and most would be climate botherers. That makes it a tougher gig for Steyn than most other jurisdictions. But the onus is on Mann to make his case and that does not seem to be doing very well.
Trump got 5.4% of the DC vote in 2020
It occurred to me this might be one of those civil trials where the jury awards the “winner” (i.e. Mann) one dollar. This would be the wrong verdict of course (Mann needs to pay the defendants’ legal $$$), but it gives a leftist-marxist DC jury an out.
I have thought that as a possibility. However Mann’s case is nearing conclusion and I think that defendants have scored better than that
It will not cost Mann a cent no matter which way the verdict goes. Someone is paying his legal costs.
This video was entered into evidence during testimony today in cross examination of a Mann’s witness:
Look at the scopes monkey trial. Right doesn’t always win and unfortunately history repeats it’s self.
Uh, no.
You must be thinking of some other jury.
A blast from the past…..
Understanding The Climategate Scandal…original article is no longer there.
Published on March 6, 2019
Written by John O’Sullivan
..here are some other articles on the subject
https://principia-scientific.com/?s=climategate
Climate Scientists Discussed Ways To Make The 1940’s Warmth Disappear
From: Tom Wigley <wigley@ucar.edu>
To: Phil Jones <p.jones@uea.ac.uk>
Subject: 1940s
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 23:25:38 -0600
Cc: Ben Santer <santer1@llnl.gov>
So, if we could reduce the ocean blip by, say, 0.15 degC, then this would be significant for the global mean — but we’d still have to explain the land blip. It would be good to remove at least part of the 1940s blip, but we are still left with “why the blip”.
The gatekeepers at “science” journals are absolutely real. We all remember Phil Jones words about stopping skeptics papers from being published: “.. “I can’t see either of these papers being in the next IPCC report. Kevin [Trenberth] and I will keep them out somehow — even if we have to redefine what the peer-review literature is!”
From: Phil Jones [Director of the Climatic Research Unit (CRU) and a Professor in the School of Environmental Sciences at the University of East Anglia University of CLIMATEGATE fame].
To: Many. Nov 16, 1999
“I’ve just completed Mike’s [Dr. Michael Mann] Nature ‘trick’ of adding in the ‘real’ temps to each series for the last 20 years (ie, from 1981 onwards) and from 1961 for Keith’s to hide the decline>.”
Michael Mann hid the post-1960 decline in the temperatures, as measured by Briffa in his paleoclimate studies using tree ring data. Mann claimed that the decline didn’t match the surface temperature record, and simply erased it.
 
Irrelevant
The 1940 heat appeared to be a measurement error. We have no idea if it was real
The 1940 to 1975 global cooling was real … by 2000 it has almost “disappeared” — the largest temperature adjustment in the instrument record.
1974 data vs. 2021

Mann’s going to win for the same reason James Cook University canned Dr. Peter Ridd in 2016. And it has nothing to to with rightness or wrongness of the issues in either one of those two cases. It has everything to do with the power that the climate mob wields.
Peter Ridd’s was not a defamation claim though, it was for wrongful dismissal.
He lost on the technicality that the employment contract he accepted had a clause about collegial conduct, for which he had received warnings.
He was treated appallingly by JCU for not joining “The Cause” (as Mann was wont to describe his version of climate science).
The requirement that in order to be “collegial”, one couldn’t disagree with what the majority believed, was a new addition.
I read some while ago that since the Ridd case enrolments at JCU had dropped by 20%. Someone knows more about that?
Thete was an article on WUWT some time ago mentioning a sharp decline in JCU admissions, post Peter Ridd but also coinciding with COVID. It seems that JCU is a badly run university with a reputation for treating students badly but operates as a grant funded business.
There is a jury and Mark Steyn is able to to get them to relate to him. He is truly a great orator. If he was a politician, his speeches would be worthy of publication and make an entertaining read.
The onus is on Mann to make his case. That requires that Steyn and Simberg defamed him by stating the Hockey Stick was fraudulent as well as suffering some financial and/or emotional harm. His claimed emotional harm was someone starred at him when he was shopping soon after the article was written. His salary and awards have all increased since 2012.
Peter Ridd’s case was based on his contract of employment. The law was changed retrospectively so that contracts of employment could not require employees to give up the academic freedom to air their personal views.
I can imagine Mann talking to his lawyers about the damages and emotional harm –
Lawyer – Mr Mann, it would be very good if you can describe some of the emotional harm you have endured following the article.
After a long pause.
Mann – Soon after the article, I went shopping with my wife and daughter and a man I did not know starred at me for no reason. I am sure he had read the article and thought I was a child molester.
That is the extent of his claim for emotional harm. No attempt to find the individual and his testimony was not convincing. Under examination, his memory of the incident was poor.
Mickey needs to pay the defendants’ legal costs, as a minimum.
Mann has paid no legal costs so far – admitted into evidence so I suspect will not pay any defendants costs should he lose.
I don’t know about this case or the conditions in which it is being heard but in many situations there are ways to force payment out of the loser once there is a court decision that he/she is indeed the guilty party. If that guilty party has property rights to anything, a home, a business, a pension, a lien can be filed against that property. The winner may not be able to collect immediately but the lien will mean that the house, business, etc. will be forfeit to the winner when ever a sale or change of status (start collecting on pension?) occurs. This condition may be a lesser or worse loss to the loser than not paying the awarded damages to begin with but it is definitely not getting off free, so that person is between the proverbial rock and hard place and has to make a decision about how to lose.
What if they have put their property in trust?
Emotional damage, legally speaking, is a situation in which a person experiences emotional distress as a result of another person’s intentional actions. It’s impossible to argue that Steyn didn’t intentionally want people to have a negative view of Mann’s character. Feeling like random strangers are glaring at you in public because someone publicly smeared your reputation is de facto emotional distress. The fact that you guys don’t think it’s “big enough” distress isn’t likely to matter much, legally.
Meanwhile you overlook at his numerous hostile outbursts in the 12 years since he sued Steyn.
He has made a lot of money, published books still employed at Penn State and more thus doesn’t show any clear evidence that he lost anything.
Well, of course, because that would be completely immaterial to the case.
I think the financial damage Mann is claiming is a reduction in research grants, not that he hasn’t made any money since, so this contention of yours doesn’t seem to actually touch on the issue at hand.
Research grants are awarded to the University, not to the researcher personally. To win on that argument, weak as it is, Mann will have to provide evidence that specific grants were not awarded specifically because of Steyn’s comments.
Steyn’s comments in The National Review would be an incredibly unlikely reason for the NIS or whomever not to award a specific grant to Penn State.
Grant applications contain the name of the person writing them and the principal researchers involved. Mann claims in testimony that colleagues told him he was now a “pariah.” It is not hard at all to imagine that this would cause a reduction in grant funding.
This is a jury trial, so the lawyers just need to persuade the jury, there is no standard process by which we can say that a given argument will or will not be rejected.
Then all he has to do is to submit similar university grant applications with successes and losses showing that this was just affecting his department. He can’t do that because it was happening across all Penn State departments in the wake of the Sandusky/Spanier scandals – it was nothing to do with Mann whatsoever, it was the University as a whole that was affected.
Exactly!
A fantasy.
“I think the financial damage Mann is claiming is a reduction in research grants”
Mann himself says that is “irrelevant to any issue in the case”
does it not say that he retracted that claim? If so, the claim is irrelevant.
No, you didn’t show any defamation as he didn’t lose any jobs, still publishes books and papers increased his wealth still gets lots of interviews and more that indicated he is still being sought after for his climate related views and more for the 12 years he filed a lawsuit.
You have NOTHING here.
Watch the trial.
Mann failed to show any proof of serious loss, i.e., no list of missed grants or evidence of grants being denied because of the Simberg or Steyn posts.
Instead, Mann had many other awards, speeches and other income.
That is, no financial loss or emotional loss documented.
Mann has a long history of going ballistic on anyone who disagrees with him.
If AlanJ’s definition of emotional harm holds true, than Mann owes damages to about half the people on the planet.
I understand that X (twitter) now keeps a list of people allowed to read Mann’s twitter because his list of blocked people is larger.
/s maybe
Can Mann genuinely discuss emotional harm inflicted upon him when he consistently tweets derogatory and reputation-damaging statements about others every day? Nearly every third post on X includes the term ‘denier.’
Those two things are unrelated, so of course he can.
Of course, if anyone Mann tweets about thinks they have a case against them, they are free to bring it. Telling someone in a tweet that they deny basic scientific fact is a bit different than writing in the National Enquirer that the person is like a child molester, though.
Mann behaves more like an activist than a scientist; the two should never intertwine, and if they do, that’s a clear sign of non-objectivity and bias. As such, he is not an objective source for what can be considered ‘basic scientific fact,’ among the other very notable issue of his controversial methodology in his research. He doesn’t just call people deniers; he said that the GOP needed to be burned to the ground. That’s a bit of an overgeneralization, isn’t it? Especially considering that there are Republicans who take his side on the matter. If emotional distress is considered legal harm, then that’s quite hypocritical coming from him.
Mann can both express personal opinions and operate objectively as a professional scientist, the two things are not mutually exclusive. This notion that scientists need to be unemotional robots who hold and reveal no thoughts, opinions, or feelings about things outside of their immediate area of expertise is just asinine. Mann is a human being who is free to express himself, and is protected in doing so by our country’s laws.
I never said Mann can’t express his opinions, but if he wants to be seen as an objective source, he should definitively refrain from making such ridiculous, overgeneralizing statements. And if he expresses himself in such a way for all the world to see, he should not criticize others for directing similar comments towards him, even if they are a bit crude. In other words, if he wants to dish out, he has to take in too. As such, it’s appropriate to conclude that emotional distress is not a valid argument for Mann to prove that his reputation was damaged in court.
What you’re saying is tantamount to, “if Mann wants me to listen to his science, he needs to stop expressing personal opinions that I don’t like.” Which, I mean, maybe that’s true, but that isn’t actually a standard Mann or any other scientist needs to adhere to. That’s a “you” problem.
“A bit crude” is understating things a bit. I haven’t seen Mann make the kinds of defamatory comments against others that have been made against him, particularly not in nationally distributed major publications.
No if Mann wants us to listen to his science, first he has to actually DO some science.
His repeatedly discredited “Hockey Stick” temperature reconstruction does not qualify.
That isn’t what was said. You are as bad as Mann! Penn State protected him just like they did a child molester.
It’s as if he has a shrine dedicated to Mann on his wall.
You are a suck up for a slimy man, how low can you get after this.
Respect from others,
credulity,
respectful to others,
well liked, cited, etc.,
Not a bully,
Not disrespectful,
not condescending,
accepts criticism as part of science,
etc. etc.
Yes, there are so many aspects of Dr. Mann on display and questioned throughout this trial and Mann isn’t looking good on any of them.
They asked Solomon if he had watched the video “Hide the Decline”?
He said no…
Legally, one cannot defame someone whose original statements are untrue. Truth is an absolute defense against defamation. Mann has to prove the truth of his hockey stick, something that he has been unwilling to do.
Mann lost his case against Professor Ball because he was unwilling to provide the defense discovery requests for his data. Mann has never been willing to release all of his data, algorithms etc because his “science” is fraudulent.
The case against Ball was dismissed for delay, not because Mann refused to comply with court ordered discovery (in which case he would have been charged with contempt of court). The summary judgment is public, so there’s little point in your lying about it here.
Mann’s data and computer code have been publicly available online for nearly two decades.
Mann’s data and computer code have been publicly available online for nearly two decades.
Could you post a link so we can see this ourselves?
Enjoy.
McIntire in 2005 showed that Mann didn’t provide all the data after all and resisted requests for the rest of the data, this was all exposed at Climate Audit blog which you never read as you are probably around 15 years old.
I stated that the data and code had been online for “nearly two decades.” If you do the math, 2005 was “nearly two decades” ago. If you are trying to claim that there is missing data in the above repository, you’re going to have to prove that, I’m afraid.
The delay was caused by Mann refusing to hand over his data when the court ordered him to.
And no, Mann’s full data and methodology has been hidden by Mann for 25 years – it took recent research to discover that Mann has lied and deceived everyone as to his data, lying about which proxies were and were not used, for example.
That is stated nowhere in the summary judgement:
https://climatecasechart.com/wp-content/uploads/non-us-case-documents/2019/20190822_Court-No.-VLC-S-S-111913_judgment.pdf
The delay was simply due to Mann never attempting to move the case forward, and this resulting in some of Ball’s key witnesses expiring of old age.
You really mustn’t tell lies.
I wasn’t – this has been a matter of record, not of opinion.
Repeating a lie that somebody else told is still just telling a lie.
But that’s exactly what you’re doing now, not me.
The lawsuit loss that to this day is denied by the slimeball Mann who also refuses to pay the costs of the lawsuit as agreed to by his own lawyer.
You are defending a truly ugly mann.
Now YOU are LYING.
How about the intentional emotional distress on regular people trying to live their lives who are blamed for destroying the planet with their lifestyle, all on false pretenses propagated by a lying fraudster like Mann?
It’s impossible to argue that Steyn didn’t intentionally want people to have
a negative[an honest] view of Mann’s (lack of) character.The fact that you personally really like the defamation isn’t going to play a heavy role in this case, I’m afraid.
What defamation? The investigation into Sandusky and Mann was as Steyn/Simberg stated, the hockey stick has been shown to be fraudulent. Steyn and Simberg were honestly reporting the facts.
The fact that you’re lumping these two together as though it was a single investigation does indeed suggest that Simberg’s defamation was far-reaching and damaging 😉
Mann ‘lumped them together’ not me – if he hadn’t wanted them ‘lumped together’ then he should’ve started 2 entirely separate cases. Simberg had, I think, 18,000 individual page views in 12 years. Does that sound ‘far-reaching’ alongside Mann who’s single tweets were sent out to 200,000 viewers at once? No, if there was any ‘defamation’ (which Mann has been singularly unable to prove) then it was not because of the very small-circulation Steyn and Simberg. It would be because the same story was run in the Daily Telegraph in the UK and a journal which, I believe, every university and college in the USA subscribes to – up to 6 months before Steyn and Simberg.
You misunderstand, I’m saying you’ve lumped Mann and Sandusky together as though it was a single investigation by Penn State into both individuals. The fact that even after doing it, and being called out for it, you don’t realize it shows how insidious and significant the defamation against Mann really has been. You’re just kind of… casually spreading the slander that Steyn and Simberg initiated.
Good job showing why this is a valid lawsuit, I guess?
Should I have referred to them as the two investigations run by the convicted felon, Spanier? Would that have been better? Spanier ran both the investigation into Sandusky and the investigation into Mann – both were exonerated and we know for a fact that Spanier supressed evidence on Sandusky to protect Penn State’s reputation. Like it or lump it, these conclusions, given the circumstances, will always be drawn; it isn’t a matter of defamation but implied guilt by association and Mann has gone out of his way to highlight his association with Spanier.
I mean, literally anything is better than what you did say, which completely undermined your entire stance in this thread, so yeah I reckon your secondary but much punier attempt to link the two men in a defamatory way toward Mann would indeed have been marginally a better choice than what you went with.
Because people like Steyn made it so. Thus, the defamation lawsuit. If you need a bigger shovel do please let me know.
I am not trying to link them at all – Spanier is the link, Spanier will always be the link, there is absolutely nothing anyone can do about that. Mann could’ve played down the link – not thanking Spanier in his books after the conviction and imprisonment would have been a start. That he didn’t and then highlighted that link is quite clearly Mann’s fault, not mine for mentioning it.
I understand that – you’re doing it subconsciously. That’s why such defamation can be so insidious and damaging. Mann doesn’t have any obligation to play down an imaginary relationship between himself and Jerry Sandusky.
Now you’re doing it – I never said that there was any relationship between him and Sandusky. I said there was a clear relationship between Mann and Spanier and that Spanier was the common link between both the Sandusky and Mann investigations.
And no, I’m not doing it subconsciously – I’m stating outright that the 2 cases are inextricably linked by the Spanier connection.
Of course you aren’t saying it – you wouldn’t want to be caught out in a deliberate lie. No, you’re implying it. You, like Steyn, want people who think of Michael Mann to associate him with Sandusky, as though the two are cut from the same cloth. And that you are doing, I now believe, deliberately, and trying to squirm your way out of admitting it.
No. I’ve stated that they are linked by Spanier. If you like I’ll go further and state that there has been a culture of cover-up’s and denial at Penn State going back to at least Todd Hodne in 1978, and that Sandusky and Mann are part and parcel of that culture. That is the common factor here, which you are also helping to perpetuate by your denial and covering up of any links between the two.
What you actually did was to incorrectly refer to a singular investigation into Mann and Sandusky, and have been desperately trying to pivot to firmer ground since being called out on it.
There is no connection between the two men, apart from both having worked at the same university./ Mann has been exonerated numerous times by independent investigations, his work replicated over and over again.
It is indeed defamatory to suggest that Sandusky and Mann are “part and parcel” of the same culture, and we can see how easily you’ve been influenced by the defamatory words of others, showing that it is indeed damaging. Insisting that the defamation was not harmful while blithely repeating the defamation you heard as though it were fact is just a bit, well, silly.
No, it means I’ve actually done some research and dug into what happened at Penn State, unlike you who are just denying everything in the hope it’ll all go away.
You are that stupid to suggest that despite still working at Penn State, still publishes books, has a large following on social media, publish papers, still gets numerous interviews on various climate related subjects, is worth more than 1 million that his being defamed was far reaching.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
Only leftists thinks like you do which means you are a low level thinker.
Are you actually trying to claim that “emotional distress” exists whenever the subject feels it does.
And you want that to be the legal definition?
I’ll bite, how would you define emotional distress if not a state of feeling?
To claim damages for emotional distress you would at least have had to be distressed enough to seek professional assistance such as a counsellor, a psychologist or the like.
Or maybe you just appear in court with a trembling bottom lip and clutching a well-chewed teddy bear.
(I should be careful here about giving Mann any ideas)
You can seek damages whenever you please, whether they will be awarded depends on the circumstances and on the disposition of the court/jury. The singular point I’m arguing against is the notion that defamation would not result in emotional distress.
So you’re trying to claim paranoia must be paid for by others, even when no one is out to get the sufferer?
HAW HAW HAW,
Dr. Mann has NEVER shown indication that he is under emotional distress as he manages to continue his work undimished, publish books, get grants, posts on social media and a lot more showing he is unchanged in his activities.
As Mr. comments, court approved documentation of emotional distress must be entered into evidence.
A claim is invalid and ignored or dismissed as nonexistent without court approved (legally) documentation.
“A claim is invalid and ignored or dismissed as nonexistent without court approved (legally) documentation.”
You appear to believe TV versions of trials are based on real courts.
There are many linear feet of bound paper filled with duly elected laws.
There are many court precedents for legal requirements for documentation and evidence.
Personal emotions, beliefs, opinions, hearsay, consensus, politically correct, rumor, muck rake, etc. etc. are all immaterial officially.
Say, personal testimony.
If that personal testimony was backed up by evidence – doctors appointments, sworn testimony from health professionals for example, then yes, otherwise no. Personal testimony not backed up by evidence is given very little weight or credence in law.
You can still talk about it in front of a jury, of course.
Did you get your law degree from the back of a Cherrios box?
K’mart blue light special, discounted for clearance.
Ah, no.
If the judge decides the topic is wasting the court’s time, and it is, mentioning it again is contempt.
Then there are the jurors listening to someone reprehensible whine, blame his lawyers, whine some more, blame the defendants, whine lots more then refuse to admit any error does not play well to ordinary Americans ensnared in that someone else’s selfishness.
The judge in this case hasn’t done that, so it’s a moot point.
Possibly not. If the other counsel objects on the grounds of it being unsubstantiated testimony or hearsay then the judge may order it stricken from the record, the jury instructed to ignore it and the person mentioning it may be instructed to reword the comment, omitting any reference to it. You really have no idea how law works, do you?
Such “personal testimony” may have completely destroyed Mann’s case.
It is now proven that Mann perjured his 2020, 2023 depositions and doubled down during “personal testimony” on these depositions which is perjury during plaintiff’s testimony this trial.
Out of thirteen alleged harm claims regarding Mann’s grant income, seven were found to be flawed or perjured.
Mann’s case self destructed during plaintiff testimony.
By who? The judge? Jury? Where is that found in the court records? An awful lot of people keep claiming Mann has been found guilty of perjury, but they don’t seem to actually have any documentary evidence of this.
The fact that an emotionally disturbed person suffers distress from imaginary events is not somebody else’s fault. And wanting someone to have a negative view of a person is not defamation, if the facts presented are true, distress or not. Truth is an absolute defense to a defamation claim.
I think that your attempts at defending that p.o.s. Mann reveals quite a lot about your values Alan.
And they ain’t attractive.
Bingo.
There were dozens of articles that featured the exact same information as Steyn and Simberg at the same time with far wider distribution, including the most widely read education journal and the Daily Telegraph. Mann cannot prove that his damages were a result of Steyn or Simberg, or even that they were anything to do with him and not a result of the Sandusky situation and Penn State’s coverup. Mann’s ‘distress’ isn’t likely to matter much, legally, if he cannot prove Steyn and Simberg as the sole and unique cause.
I mean, that is a primary line of defense that Steyn is forwarding – we will see how it lands. Personally I’m not sure that being one in a cacophony of outlets actively defaming someone makes one blameless, but I am not on the jury.
You misunderstand, probably on purpose. Mann, in order to prove defamation by Steyn and Simberg has to prove that Steyn and Simberg alone are responsible for any damages. If there were a dozen sources all saying the same thing, how can Steyn and Simberg be responsible in any way? Mann cannot link just Steyn and Simbergs articles alone to any damages, it’s not possible.
Mann has sued other people/outlets for defamation. I don’t think this “he didn’t sue everyone who defamed him” defense is particularly robust, but we will see how the jury takes it. You certainly aren’t legally required to show that only the people you’re currently in court with have defamed you to show damage from their defamation.
Of course you do, AnalJ – you MUST show that the person or persons you are in court with are the source of that defamation, or you have no case.
Imagine if you were called a fraud and a moron by someone in public and you sued the person that laughed and said they agreed instead of the original commenter – it doesn’t work that way.
You do not need to show that the person you are in court with is the only person to ever defame you. There is little question that the defendants in this case are a primary source of defamation against Mann.
There is a very clear indication that they were most definitely NOT the primary source of such alleged ‘defamation’ or weren’t you watching when the Daily Telegraph article by Ann MacElhinney was mentioned in court? It came out some 5 or 6 months before the Steyn/Simberg articles and said exactly the same things as them, as did an article ran in a national colleges magazine distributed widely across the entire USA. That Steyn and Simberg repeated what was said in other, previous articles such as these is a matter of evidence in this case, not conjecture.
Of course, that is a flagrant lie. It is a rather silly game to tell easily verifiable lies to me. I don’t know what you hope to gain from it. But even if it were not a lie, broadcasting defamation is still defamation, even if someone else is also making the same defamatory statements.
MacElhinney is also a UK citizen, so one can imagine that pursuing a defamation case against someone in another country might be prohibitively difficult (I’m not sure how defamation laws compare, or how successful one could be in obtaining damages even if they were awarded).
Still, you lot do seem to have Steyn’s legal playbook memorized, so I’m sure this lie will be a major element of his defense. We shall see how it plays with the jury.
Steyn, Simberg and Ball are/were Canadian citizens but that didn’t stop Mann so neither should the fact that Ann McElhinney is an EU citizen (Irish). As to whether it is true or not – the article was read out in court, the same links and comparisons were in both her article and the Steyn/Simberg articles. Again, this is not a lie it is a statement of fact.
Will you please stop just labelling everything you disagree with as a lie (but which can easily be proven to be true). If you think it may be untrue, do your own research, don’t just do the same knee-jerk reaction.
The claim is being made that Steyn said nothing more and nothing less than exactly the defamatory statements that McElhinney did, and that is a falsehood. You surely know this, as any reasonable person would, so you are knowingly saying things that aren’t true. What should we call this if not a lie?
I’m not sure that you get to dictate what should or shouldn’t deter Mann from pursuing a case against people who have defamed him. This argument that he either has to go after every single cretin who has defamed him or none of them is quite asinine.
As you are perfectly aware, the second part was in reply to your original comment. Why should you be allowed to say what might or might not deter Mann from sueing somebody and then stop me from correcting your mistakes?
As to your asinine comment – I was pointing out that trying to single out Steyn and Simberg as the source of these comments was doomed to failure, much like the case itself.
He LOST the defamation case against Dr. Ball.
Ooop’s
The case was never heard on its merits, it was dismissed for delay. So using that case as a precedent here is probably a bit premature.
Possibly but the outcome was likely to be the same whether it was heard or not – Mann refused to supply the information required by the court because it would have proved Dr Balls case – it was fraudulent as Dr Ball said, recent analyses of the actual data he used prove that. It’s perfectly valid to state that he lost the case.
Mann did not refuse to supply anaything, I’ve provided the summary judgement above and nowhere is this even hinted at. No one here can provide a single documentary source to substantiate such a claim. It’s just an oft repeated WUWT lie.
Pure conjecture.
How disingenuously false you are.
Mann did not want the case to proceed on it’s merits.
Mann refused to allow discovery into his work and results.
Mann’s lack of court interaction failed to provide what the court demanded, plus several ‘extensions’ to give Mann time for his many excuses.
Ball’s team submitted the motion to dismiss due to delay.
The court accepted and subsequently ruled that Mann must pay costs to the defendants and legal system.
The case is a perfect demonstration regarding Dr. Mann’s respect for justice.
Hint, Dr. Mann failed to prove any merit, honor or righteousness for his rather bizarre claims against many many people.
[citation needed]
I’ve provided the summary judgement, nowhere does it cite Mann refusing to comply with court ordered discovery.
*crickets*
😂 🤣 😂 🤣 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣 😂 🤣
The creep has nothing better than to wait, excitedly apparently, for a response to their own silliness and failure to read the entire case.
A summary is not the full case and never will be.
Nor does the summary pretend to include the reasons for the summary, just the result.
Read the entire case including the blow by blow lack of Plaintiff responses.
Well since you have all the details ready at hand, you’ll be good enough to share them.
Oh I’m sorry, were you asking to be spoon-fed the answers here? You should have said, we’re not mind-readers.
Sorry, yes, since you’re struggling to keep up, I am asking, in no uncertain terms, to be spoon-fed the evidence you both claim exists of Mann defying court ordered discovery. Being the people who claim such evidence exists, the onus is on you to produce it. That’s how this works. You make a claim, you back it up. Is that better?
A twisting, lying marxist, nothing this AnalJ clown writes is worth sawdust.
MANN’S deliberate delay, because he knew his junk science wouldn’t stand up to scrutiny.
Dupe.
If what Steyn says is true, any amount of damage or emotional distress is irrelevant. Exposing the truth is not defamation.
It is also up to Mann to prove the truth of his statements that are at issue.
I am certain Steyn intended to hurt Mann’s reputation by pointing out his unscientific “tricks”.
Mann has to prove his work was acceptable scientific practice. He has not provided a single witness who will stand up in court and defend his work producing the HS.
If the case is not dismissed after the plaintiff rests his case, then Steyn will roll in MccIntyre to point out, in grimy detail, the unacceptability of what Mann did when creating the HS.
This video was entered into evidence today during cross examination of Simberg:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8BQpciw8suk
So this was during the plaintiffs case, not the defence.
That’s a very odd thing to enter into evidence in a case involving Michael Mann considering the graphic in question was prepared by Phil Jones, but I wouldn’t expect Steyn to care about little details like that.
Mann did not dispute it though, so it stands as evidence.
Evidence of… ?
Evidence of methodology that no honest scientist would use – listen to what is being said in the video by an actual scientist.
Well it’s not methodology Mann used or had any part in, so it’s unclear, again, why this might be entered into evidence in a case involving Mann.
Mann grossly distorted the Grants funded and unfunded.
In 2009, the first year of the 4 years prior to the defamation post, He received a grant of $1,889,000
In 2014 he received a grant of $450K which was omitted in his direct oral testimony, but included on the redirect testimony (and omitted on the interogitories).
Mann testified that in the 4 years after the defamation post he only received $500k. correcting for that ommission, he actually received approximately 1,015,000 in grants (note that that was a 200% error – not good for an expert statistian).
Removing the $1,889,00 grant from the equation greatly changes the results. – since it greatly skews the average, but doesnt skew the median,
Without the outliner of $1,889,000 grant there is very little difference in grant $ before or after.
7 grants before the post
6 grants after the post.
The average $ grant before the post $292k
the average $ grant after the post $317k
Just pointing this out because it is another example of manipulating the data to present a false impression.
This is perhaps the first sensible comment from a detractor in this thread. If Mann can’t compellingly show financial damages resulting from the defamation, that won’t be a strong argument.
How specious of you.
Not only Mann does not show or demonstrate financial or emotional injury, he has been demonstrated during this process as a perjurer.
i.e., Mann is lying to the court on many things and pressing a court case where he did not demonstrate error, injury, malice, intention to cause damage or bring harm to Dr. Mann by the defendants.
I understand that next up is total destruction of the hockey stick farce.
Opening and continuing with a court approved and verified Statistics expert. Solomon’s and Mann’s opinions are toast right now.
Sworn in to support the defense, not Dr. Mann’s team.
Possible target, Mann’s statistical formula, program, data and statistical results. Or open heart surgery on the mysterious calculation recently exposed by
Mann certainly did not prove his work is accurate during their presentation.
Yes, Mann pushed “Argumentum ad Verecundiam as far as the court would allow, not far.
But, that logical fallacy is not evidence, nor does it show:
Mann’s case foundation is all spit, right now.
He’s certainly attempting to demonstrate these things, whether his attempts hit successfully with the jury is an open question. Calling this perjury is beyond asinine.
I’m sure this nonsense will be a major component of Steyn’s defense. Again, we will see how it plays with the jury. Steyn has the rather onerous task of not only proving that Mann’s work is irreconcilably flawed, but intentionally so. Neither of which is an enviable position to be in.
No – Mann lying repeatedly in court documents is perjury. Mann lying to the jury is acceptable until it is exposed as a lie under cross-examination.
If you are correct then there is no doubt he will be charged with perjury forthwith, wouldn’t you agree?
That is not up to you or me, it rests entirely within the judges purview.
Beyond arrogant speciousness and proof you haven’t been following the trial.
Right now, the lack of real evidence to Mann’s alleged injury has caused the judge to request plaintiff and defendants positions regarding Mann’s perjury and failure to provide evidence of damage.
The jury has been laughing with Mark Steyn during many of his erudite “points”. They have been bored to tears by Mann and his counsel for weeks now.
Mann is the plaintiff and must prove damages and injury. All else is secondary.
Since this case is purely political The judge may allow the case to continue. That is, allow the defendants to destroy every last aspect of Mann’s career.
The judge may decide to issue a summary judgement now as a matter of law. That’s known as dismissed with court and legal costs paid by the plaintiff.
It would be nice if the judge dismisses Mann’s case with prejudice, which it rightly deserves.
Ah but seeing his Hockey Stick torn to shreds in an open forum would be such a good thing. 🙂
“ Feeling like random strangers are glaring at you in public because someone publicly smeared your reputation is de facto emotional distress.”
For Pete’s sake.. get Real!
IMO, A simple summation.
Sadly, for Mann, that is a kind understatement.
Where? Wegmans.
Where in Wegmans? Uuhh, Produce.
When? Shopping trip.
Who with? Wife and children.
What happened? A man stared at me.
A man stared? Yes, a mean stare.
Lots of time was spent in white noise with the judge wearing earphones to discuss “Objections”.
Mann has the IPCC on his side — an appeal to authority
Why the down votes, people?
Richard’s statement is fact.
Quite possibly because increasing numbers of WUWT commenters are seeing that there is something not right about the “Richard Greene” persona account, which sometimes says sensible things while alternatively spewing – as seen over in the WUWT post about the Tucker Carlson / Willie Soon interview – pure leftist tripe sourced from Greenpeace about ‘industry funding of Willie Soon.’ Dig deep enough into that account’s comments elsewhere, it routinely trashes many more climate realists while posing as a climate realist itself. That sort of dual personality thing is usually a good indicator of the comment account being a fake troll one, with hugely suspect intentions wherever it goes.
I’m just going by the comment he made above.
Mann does make an appeal to “authority”, and counts on their backing.
Do you think the AGW acolytes are going to hang him out to dry?
More like relegate to the ignore, don’t make eye contact, forget category.
He quit posting at a blog I administrate because I unapproved a comment he made that was inappropriate he left a few days later no one misses him because he is an unpleasant person.
I’d call that the understatement of the year…maybe the decade!
Richard Greene’s statement is false – even the IPCC had to admonish Mann for claiming to have won a Nobel Prize. The IPCC is, apparently, quite embarrassed by Mann’s antics.
So do you reckon they’ll hang him out to dry, or stay schtum?
I think they’ll quietly turn their backs on him. Yes, Mann has become a pariah in some circles, but all by his own hand – he has no-one to blame but himself.
Michael Mann epitomizes the pathetic joke and farce that the supposed study of climate change has become.
I hope Mark Steyn ends his cross by entering this into evidence. Just for shirts and goggles.
Ah, good times.
It has already been entered into evidence, much to everyone’s (except Mann and his team’s) delight – I think Victoria Weatherford showed it in full to the jury and had it entered as evidence. Not for shits and giggles though – this and other examples show that Steyn and Simberg can’t be singled out as the only people critical of Mann at that time.
It was entered into evidence and played for the jury to hear. The jury reportedly saw the funny side.
Mann is the butt of so many jokes about scientific credibility that singling out Steyn and Simberg as the most damaging makes it very difficult to make any claim for damages against the two of them.
An oldie but goodie
What puzzles me and surprises me ever more, watching and listening to the trial is how inept and unconvincing Mann actually is? Considering he is supposed to be some kind of high achiever a man of significant intellect, he comes across as a complete chump.
I get the impression he is friendless for very good reasons. He projects the persona of a fraud. Other than ‘Bill Nye the Weird Guy’, who else is prepared to stand up and say, Michael E Mann is a friend of mine?
He must be a very sensitive character, if he considers being glared at while shopping in the local supermarket by some unknown guy, represents the worst extent of harm he suffered, and that terrible life changing encounter in the supermarket, happened as a result of a Steyn blog post and nothing else?
No words were exchanged, in the supermarket. How would he have ever known what prompted someone, a complete stranger, to give him a ‘nasty look’?
Not even “nasty”.
A really “mean” look.
Allegedly.
Must have scarred him for life.
It was in isle 9, or was it 8, we learn. If I were a juror I’d wonder: is this guy for real?
Maybe Michael Mann is feeling guilty and just thinks the guy in the supermarket is glaring at him over his Hockey Stick fraud.
Next, I suppose Trump grabbed his…
Mann IS a chump – nowhere near as intelligent as he thinks he is, or portrays himself as; he really does believe everybody else is less intelligent than him and will fall for this BS.
AnalJ thinks he’s wonderful.
Alan thinks AnalJelly is good as well. There’s no accounting for taste.
Mann is classifying himself by his misrepresentations to the court, his sheer viciousness online, in the MSM, on stages and in comment threads as the classic definition of a paranoid egocentric narcissist. Mann is incapable of admitting error no matter how weak his defense or how strong the evidence is against him.
My guess is NPD — narcissistic personality disorder.
… Narcissists always see themselves as victims no matter how horribly they’ve treated others. To them the problem is not their offenses it is the simple fact that others have pointed out their flaws to them and that will never do … QED.
Mark’s categorisation is absolutely spot on.
Michael E.Mann is a vicious blowhard.
Full respect to Mark for not calling him Blowfeld in light of the encounter Mann claims he had in the cat food aisle.
Steyn appears to have three arguments:
1) Its true, the HS is fraudulent;
2) He believed on credible grounds at the time that it was fraudulent;
3) What he wrote caused no provable damage.
He only has to show any one of these It looks like all three are going to be valid, the second two probably being more secure than the first, and this should result in a win for him on the legal merits of the case.
Its much harder to show that the HS was fraudulent (as opposed to wrong, misleading etc), which is going to be very difficult and rely on circumstantial evidence.
But he will be able to show that at the time a reasonable person looking at the evidence and the comments of qualified experts could come to the opinion that it was, on the merits of the case, without being either malicious or reckless in such a judgment.
He is ill advised to act as his own attorney however. And when it comes to courts, judges and juries you are in the lap of the gods.
Mann has to prove that Steyn and Simberg alone were responsible for damages suffered (impossible to prove).
Also that he suffered significant damages (not proven, in fact he profited substantially during this time).
Phelim McAleer and Ann McElhinney are waiting now for Steyn and Simberg to file motions to dismiss on the grounds that the case is not proven – which may or may not succeed, depending on how pissed off the judge has become by now.
His Lordship the judge.
Really? Despite Mark Steyn referring to the Judge in the same way as we would refer to a UK or Canadian High Court Judge, do Americans really call the Judge m’lud, milord, my lord or his lordship?
No.
The judge is “His or Her Honor”.
Mann deleted the Briffa data, when all of his collaborators advised him not to do it. He also did it without telling any of them.
That should be sufficient to prove fraudulent intent.
I doubt that would count as legal proof of fraud.
He would argue that there was a disagreement among colleagues as to the best way to present what the underlying data showed. We all may not believe that, his collaborators may have had reservations, but the mere fact of having done it doesn’t prove fraud legally. If you had emails saying we have to fake some data points here, if you had even sworn testimony of conversations to that effect, maybe. But none of that exists here.
On the other hand, if you are Steyn, and all you are trying to show that a reasonable person could come to his considered opinion on the evidence that it was fraud, the advice of his collaborators would be something you could cite. All you are trying to show in this case is that you sincerely held your view, and that you arrived at it by examination of the evidence rather than malicious invention or reckless accusation.
Mann is the plaintiff.
Any refusal or frequent “I don’t remembers” in discussing his statistic calculations will further harm his position.
They’ve already proved Dr. Mann lied; Simberg’s attorney.
They’ve basically proven Mann’s viciousness in emails, interviews and online comments.
And all this was proven during the Plaintiff’s presentation.
Up at bat now is a court certified expert statistician called by the Defense..
Follow-up soon will be Dr. McIntyre.
Steyn is going after the hockeystick and it’s alleged research. Including whether Dr. Mann archived all of the correct data, program code and calculations.
I suspect there will be intros to the Climategate emails and discussions highlighting Mann’s oppression against journals, their editors and reviewers, his suppression of contrary questions and questioners and more of Mann’s viciousness towards qualified critics; of which there are many.
Steyn is using legal advice. The court is not unfriendly to Steyn’s approach.
As a reader of conservative climate articles since 1997, I thought the official name of the Mann chart was:
The Fraudulent Hockey Stick Chart
That’s what all conservatives called it, starting about two minutes after seeing it.
The Nobel Peace Prize is not a science prize
Past winners include:
Barack O’Bummer
Jimmy Carter
Yasser Arafat”
Nelson Mandela
Mikhail Gorbachev
Martin Luther King Jr.
None were scientists.
Although Jimmy Carter knew his peanuts. Some were not even peaceful. Obama was at war for his full eight years.
News just in. The Don has been nominated for the NPP for his work on the Abraham treaty. Should he get the award I’d expect him to decline.
Abraham accords, multiple treaties, that Brandon has recently taken credit for.
“Obama was at war for his full eight years.”
That was not a problem because he got the award before he was ever president, 12-10-2009, after the election before the inauguration.
You really can’t make this liberal sh!t up.
“ he got the award before he was ever president, 12-10-2009, after the election before the inauguration”
You’re not good at making it up. The election was 4 Nov 2008.
Your point? He was not the POTUS until the inauguration. The post-election, pre-inauguration title is “President Elect.”
Outside of proving that Dr, Mann did NOT receive a Nobel Peace Prize by everyone involved in the awarding process; Nobel, IPCC, Gore, that Dr. Mann lied about his CV & awards. The Nobel Peace Prize is irrelevant to this trial.
And they proved this during the Plaintiff’s presentation.
Some jealous people are not very nice to one of the greatest scientists in the history of the world. Just ask him. So they search diligently for his mean tweets and then call him names, such as a science fraud, a horse’s ass, a bum, meaner than a junkyard dog, and even comparing his brilliant work to a pile of farm animal digestive waste products. One angry person claimed he was worse than Adolf Hitler. These people are all jealous of a great scientist. His mother thought so too.
I would never say anything bad about such a genius, since I was raised to always be polite and respect men of great accomplishments. And women too. I am a graduate of the Don Rickles Charm School.
Trump had plenty of mean tweets, but most conservatives still like him.
This Mann, a legend in his own mind, also had some mean tweets and you should read them at the link below:
The World’s Leading Climate Expert | Real Climate Science
This Mann, a legend in his own mind, also had some mean tweets and you should read them at the link below:
Steyn is certainly illuminating the jury with them and when push comes to shove they may well be what tips the jury toward dismissing Mann’s complaint coming to the conclusion it’s an interesting spat with colourful put downs. Also Mann doesn’t deserve any money anyway as he didn’t cough up when he lost to Ball and besides he’s still got a cushy job and hasn’t shown any real loss.
Think about it as juror new to it all and having a guffaw about it all together in recess. You’d really have to feel empathy for Mann and a strong sense of injustice to side with him and find him deserving of bucks. In the absence of that you’d likely take the easy way out and let bygones be bygones.
That responsibility and authority rests solely with the judge, not the jury. The jury acquits, convicts or hangs (locked vote)
There was already a motion to dismiss after the plaintiff rested his case.
The judge apparently wanted it to hear some of the defense plea.
If they succeed in destroying the hockeystick, aka willful fraud perpetuated by Mann, expect another motion to dismiss as the case becomes immediately moot.
I mentioned before that this went wide of the mark, but it bears mentioning again – you just come across as an apologist for Mann, not a good look.
It’s called satire, dimwit
Not the way you do it, Richard. You will probably need lessons to achieve even a most basic level.
And Mann hasn’t sued you yet? You must be highly offended. 🙂
If I spent 60 days in jail I’d consider it very, very long! 🙂
Most of us who have never been there would consider 2 days long. I think for a guy like Spanier, they let him get his affairs in order and schedule his time. If you are a DUI driver, you don’t get that opportunity.
Good article.
I was astounded earlier this month to see the discredited 1998 “hockey stick” graph from Mann CELEBRATED BY NOAA as one of “five significant moments in climate science history.”
Now why would they do such a thing, knowing the trial schedule? Don’t answer that – it might be defamatory.
https://www.noaa.gov/heritage/stories/five-significant-moments-in-climate-science-history
Sweet Jesus they’re so far up Mann’s clacker they’ve got brown stuff between their toes-
At the time of the initial paper’s release, the methodology of the “hockey stick” paper may have seemed novel to some. Mann and his fellow authors could not use historical records for the time periods before scientific instruments were developed to measure temperatures. Instead, they vetted more than 500 proxy records from the world’s oceans, including fossilized remains of plankton and microbes in sediment. They were then able to use statistical methods to determine the sea surface temperatures by using those proxy records and cross-checking them against ice core samples from the North and South poles, among other things. Proxy records were not new, but synthesizing them in one large study was still new at the time.
Novel seance’ wins the Nobel every time now folks.
If I were to spend any time with Mann, there is a chance that I would get brown stuff between my toes. But that would be the only part of my body so contaminated.
Sole less boots that cover your head an body?
That’s some deep slimy stuff coming from Mann.
You’re gonna need waders!
If Mann was a real man, he never would have sued somebody for dissing him. Especially if confident in his work.
Everyone seems to be forgetting that the MONEY being spent is not coming out of Mann’s pockets.
I think he MIGHT have been willing to just drop the whole thing by now, but those who OWN him would not let him do that, thus his being eviscerated on the stand. Now with 90% + liberal jury, his backers have a very good chance of winning.
TRUMP! and the new congress MUST dissolve DC, maintaining only areas with no residents other then the White House (and keeping the one house representative), return the inhabited areas to Virginia and Maryland while eliminating all federal funding to those areas, move all congressional testimony to WV, eliminate in it’s entirety the DC circuit courts, and move all federal cases away from deep state control.
This will not be intended to “level the playing field” but to provide for extreme conservative bias while the FBI, CIA, DOJ and all the other deep state cronies are tried for their multiple conspiracies and oppression under the color of law.
Remember, Harry Reid changed the appointment of lower court judges to a simple majority, after nearly 200 years of requiring a 60% cloture vote, specifically to stack the DC circuit with extreme leftist judges under Obama.
End Rant
Drake
The person(s) funding Mann apparently already refused to pay court costs when Mann lost against Dr. Ball.
If they refuse to pay court costs and damages if Mann loses this case, that will not go down well for Mann as he will own all of the cost.
So sad. /s
A former work colleague of mine had one of those certificates. Suffice to say he never claimed to have won a Nobel Prize.
Nobody else appears to have done either. Only Mann.
No there were several others.
Donna Laframboise had them listed at her website, including where they made/posted/CV the claims.
I do hope Mr. Steyn does not offend or make any enemies on the jury, as that group holds the ultimate result of his efforts. As seen in numerous situations, regardless of the facts, you lose the voters you lose the election.
He doesn’t seem to be – in fact, despite instructions to be impartial, a couple of them have started to laugh at Steyn’s humour.
Great article about a complete scumbag. Thanks.
Complete, total and irredeemable scumbag to boot (and I wish he had been).
Mickey Mannish calculated, erroneously as usual, that he would only have to defend his pseudoscience among folks with a similarly diluted intellect and lacking moral direction. He never prepared himself to contend with critical thinkers and people with integrity. It’s like showing up at a five alarm fire with a turkey baster.
I hope we shall get Steve McIntyre and McKitrick on the compilation of the Hockey Stick. Also see Steve on the UAE ‘hack’. Quite clearly an inside job.
And see Steve on the grossly fraudulent HS frontispieced on the IPCC’s AR6.
I’m personally narked that my BBC fee paid Mann to appear on a fraudulent BBC TV programme called Climate Change- the Facts featuring the popular non scientist Sir David Attenborough who again had his reputation damaged.
Wait, are you saying that someone took information from two different sources and spliced it together, without acknowledging it? Why does this trick sound familiar?
Not only does the trick sound familiar but so is Mann’s involvement. It’ll be ‘Mikes nature trick’ followed by ‘Mikes Nobel trick.’
perhaps Steyn should call Dr. Happer to the stand
Sadly, with the corruption of the judicial process these days, this jury is going to end up awarding tens of millions to E. Jean Carroll and Rachel Maddow.
Mann will receive tens of millions in new grant money and will work on a method for grafting methane produced by polar bears into a temperature record he will produce using the cores of discarded apples. Of course, this chart will show unprecedented warming in the last 30 days and OMG! We’re Doooooomed! It says so on the grant application.
Dr JP Abraham was supposed to be the witness to show how the posts seriously damaged Mann’s reputation in the scientific community (even though it is totally implausible that two political commentators would have any effect among scientists regarding mann’s science expertise)
he was doing a great job providing oral testimony on the damage to Mann’s reputation.
However, I have never seen a witness’s credibility destroyed so completely on cross examination. He became one of the best witnesses for the defense showing that the plaintiff’s case and claims of damages were simply bogus.
Mr McIntyre at Climate Audit posted the Fortran code shortly after ClimateGate leak on WUWT.
By coincidence I was required to have a programming class to be able to take the CPA exam.
Grad school dean knew Fortran so we took Fortran.
I could read in the code how the data was Mannnipulated to adjust the 30’s temps downward and get a good lookin’Hockey schtick shaft.
Tree ring circus. The show must go on.