Guest Opinion by Kip Hansen — 17 January 2024 — 600 words/6 minutes
Dr. Roger Pielke Jr., who writes at The Honest Broker on substack, gets a great big Hat Tip from me for bringing this NASA web page to my attention: Climate Kids: Planet Health Report: SEA LEVEL. [ see his post here – I am writing about the issue of Landification shortly ]
Climate Kids presents itself as an educational tool to teach children, at the grade school level, about Climate Change. It is produced by the Earth Science Communications Team at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory / California Institute of Technology. The Program Manager is Heather Doyle, who can be contacted at climatekids@jpl.nasa.gov.
Here is their Sea Level page graphic:
Here’s the text, a little easier for you to read:
“SEA LEVEL:
What if it keeps rising this fast?
The global average sea level has risen over 7 inches in the past 100 years. A few inches may not seem like much, but every inch of sea level rise covers 50-100 inches of beach. If the ice keeps melting, global sea level could rise more than 20 feet. That would put a lot of coastlines under water. Whole islands could disappear!”
Now, please, imagine that you are a 4th grader – 9 or 10 years old — living in Miami. You are told explicitly that if things keep going as they have been going, you, you family, your friends, your school and your entire city are going to die by being submerged under 20 feet of water.
That, my dear friends, is blatant child abuse according to the definitions of child abuse of the U.S. CDC which says of child abuse and neglect:
“This issue includes all types of abuse and neglect of a child under the age of 18 by a parent, caregiver, or another person in a custodial role (such as a religious leader, a coach, a teacher) that results in harm, the potential for harm, or threat of harm to a child.”
For a Miami Beach school district teacher in a 4th grade class to teach 9 and 10 year-olds that they are under a death sentence from climate change due to present rate of sea level rise:
1. Is a lie. The question is “What if it keeps rising this fast?” The true answer is “In 100 more years, the sea level will rise another 7 inches.” The more correct answer, according to our present understanding of global sea level rise, is about 8-12 inches in the next century.
2. It is also a lie to imply that the answer to the question is “the sea could rise more than 20 feet” and submerge Miami.
3. It is not just a lie – not just Climate Crisis propaganda – it is by definition child abuse.
I would correct this page as follows:
The corrected text reads:
“The global average sea level has risen over 7 inches in the past 100 years.
Depending on the slope of a beach, one inch of sea level rise can cover more
than an inch of beach. If sea level keeps rising this fast – 7 or 8 inches per century
then in another 100 years, sea level will rise another 7 or 8 inches. For low lying
areas, this can cause problems. To reach the level shown in red in the map
below, it would take 34 centuries or 3,400 years.”
# # # # #
Author’s Comment:
Absolutely appalling. It is this type of thing, which has been ongoing for years, that leads to the emotionally anxious and dysfunctional children who have grown up and now attend universities around the world. Some of these dysfunctional children now teach in those universities and our public schools. This is the opposite of education, it is dumbification – making our children less educated and less well-informed.
If you are a reader of James Lee Burke’s novels, imagine him describing how I feel about people who would do such a thing as write and publish that sea level page for grade school kids. Now, I’m a peaceful man, but they really got to me with the above.
And yes, I have written to Heather Doyle, the Program Manager responsible, and expressed my displeasure. You can write to her too at climatekids@jpl.nasa.gov .
Thanks for reading.
# # # # #
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The current generation of teenagers in the U.S. is certainly the most medicated in history for mental health issues.
Any chance telling kids the entire world as they know it will end soon contributes to anxiety and depression?
And dems were against genital mutilation before being for it.
pillageidiot ==> Gee, it might huh? In way Upstate NY, parents who don’t want their kids to stay out after dark, threaten them with being attacked and eaten by coy-dogs if they do. Works, too! I knew High school kids who swore it was true and “knew a kid who knew a kid whose cousin was eaten by coy-dogs!”
So a “coydog” is just a dog, since it can breed and its offspring can breed, etc.
All “canids” are the same species, just DOG.
Although it is fine to use descriptors to clarify dominant traits of the various types of dogs.
Wiener dog.
Wolf
etc.
Some dogs – too many – have atrocious manners. That’s the real variation of significance.
A pit bull once bit my face (no serious damage)- while vising a house of my friends. The husband said he’d get rid of the dog. The wife started crying (she worships dogs). The wimpy husband relented. A month later the dog bit his face and he needed 20 stitches.
Hooray!
and was the scene set for males being targets because of the female owners bond I wonder?
Ive had up to 6 large breed stag/wold etc hounds and make damn sure Im Alpha bitch of the pack, they will tolerate men on the property but only if I make sure theyre introduced and approved. I wouldnt be the bloke who got aggro with me;-)
and if the owners have kids…you can bet the kids are as bad.
if you cant raise a dog well then you shouldnt be breeding yourself.
semi correct, while they may all be canids you would NOT make nice with Dingo in Aus(go look at recent attacks hamilton island)
even crossbreds are a risk to be “owning” we have one in town and you need to be aware/wary when shes out, other dogs and anyone with food is at a risk, and shes on leash.
if theyre used to being independent and in a pack, any breed can be worth caution
A bit like going camping in Australia.. gotta watch out for the “drop-bears”
“The current generation of teenagers in the U.S. is certainly the most medicated in history for mental health issues.”
We need to go back to the good old ays when kids self medicated. With their Daddy’s whiskey, beer they had older teens and college students buy for them, and smoking weed. We didn’t need doctors and prescriptions — they were for the nerds.
Well that is kind of how we did it yes. And ya know, still like some of these things today! In moderation of course. Always in moderation.
and while weed might be an issue for some with tendencies to mental aberration (prior) Im wondering how many just got drunk cried and got over it and didnt end up addicted?
the SSRI meds are addictive and very hard to get off of once used ive noted from many friends on them for decades, while serving little use, theyre still the same before and after taking them
Before aspirin was invented in 1900 everybody used opium and opiates, who had access to It, used it for pain and often pleasure.
It increases a person’s ability to concentrate so they can focus on something pleasurable and get even more pleasure out of it.
In the 1920s and 1930s when it was still legal to use there were only an average of 35 deaths per year according the the US Mortality and Morbidity Statistics. For comparison, there were about 3,000 deaths per year from alcohol. Here is a link to one of the reports: https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/vsushistorical/mortstatsh_1925.pdf
This is an extremely important subject.
A crucial task in educating the public is to address the deceptions in textual material used in schools, starting with primary and right on through to university.
Frightening children with lies is indeed abuse.
It will take much more than a few people writing letters to administrators.
Editing all textual material is necessary.
I grab all climate bullsh*t books I find at opshops n garage sales, and use them as firelighters
just doing my bit;-)
and drop notes into library books claiming climate woes, with ref to WUWT and doing some REAL research
Climate Change happens. Always has. Always will. Slowly. Very slowly. One century — one lifetime — is a single data point in the climate story.
See students? In your lifetime climate will change very little.
There has been a scary proposal that humans can affect climate by emitting plant food. These scary politicians made predictions which have failed.
The experiments testing the scary predictions have all failed. More carbon dioxide leads to more food so a larger human population can be sustained.
Old George ==> BORING……will not attract funding. Won’t help get teachers promoted to vice-principle. will cause me to be shunned and cancelled so … no dice….not teaching the truth.
But, after all, that larger population is the major problem and they are doing their best to reverse the curve.
The pikers! Why don’t they do predictions and graph with a kilometre of sea level rise?! It’s to save the environment! All lies are okay, as long as you’re saving the environment! Even if the green methods to save the environment actually would hurt the environment – it doesn’t matter as long as we’re saving the environment!
The important thing here is the slowness with which anything “climate” actually happens. The fact that the warmistas are trying to panic us suggests that either: 1. they don’t understand this, or: 2. they understand it full well but are cynically trying to manipulate everyone else. Either way, it confirms them as evil and suggests an alternative agenda (as has been mentioned many times on this website)..
You perpetuate a slightly more complicated version of a very stupid tactical error, widespread among the American Conservatives (who always lose, in case you somehow did not notice, and were mocked for never fighting for win and always losing back in 1897) and internet users known as “spergelords”.
The entire «no, EKSHULLY herr Heinrich Kramer is the real witch here!» thing never works, because it’s based on the assumptions that become obviously nonsensical if you state them explicitly. I mean, think about it. If it was possible for you to denounce him for blasphemy just like that, he would not be in position to lead witch-hunts in the first place, would he?
TBeholder ==> No idea what you are saying there — no idea whatever.
Must be the first two paragraphs of Their 3000 paragraph rambling nonsensical manifesto
Out of morbid curiosity I googled “EKSHULLY heir henrich dramer” and the reply (only one in a nanosecond) was: you should get some professional help, before it is too late, which it might already be.
Googled. At this point, how to put it delicately…
…obey Friend Computer. Computer is your friend. Happiness is Mandatory.
TBeholder has no idea what he’s talking about, and should learn from others who also don’t know what they’re talking about: simply type “Total BS”, and be done with it.
I’d be the first to throw down a ‘Total BS” if I had any idea what was being said. I think he was trying to say conservatives were using the wrong strategy to verbally battle with leftists. Or perhaps it was a recipe for eggplant.
I love such esoteric comments
Why?
I have a TBeholder Decoder ring that will interpret the comment which is obviouslt way beyond a Ph.D. level. I have BS and MBA degree so this is obviously way over my head.
I also have a Junpin’ Joe Bribe’em Gibberisg Decoder Ring.
My Kamala Harris Word Salad Decoder Ring burned out and I’ll need a better one.
Here is the plain English Decoder Ring interpretation of The TBeholder comment:
There is a 30% chance of snow on Friday in the western suburbs of Altoona, PA.
The second most likely interpretation was:”
Earth will be invaded by aliens from the planet Uranus.
Maybe TBeholder has confused the Decoder Ring. But I look forward to his next comment.
Not so sure a BS and MBA is sufficient though the decoder ring probably helps. What would be needed without the ring is a MBS
Ah. In this case, let me offer the next cutting edge idea, so that your time is not wasted: “in USA the real racists are in 🄓emocratic party”. It’s just a lazy hunch now. But there’s much material on various blogs, and you could develop this into a proper hypothesis! It would be even more groundbreaking and no doubt can achieve something. :]
most coherent comment yet
and you have a point reverse racism ie DIE hires seem to be very NONwhite in bidets little world right now
Your ChatGPT prompts need a tune up.
Alexa has a lot to answer for as well…
Baby Jesus is cute and cuddly, baby cheeses (Baby Bel) are delicious! 😋
Please don’t confuse babies with baby cheeses, lots of fuss usually occurs.
Cute! Thanks.
Say wha? Good lord, this is almost on par with VP Harris word-salads.
I am, meanwhile, amused by seeing how many… er… totally calm and collected replies this sort of word salad elicits. Clearly very many people don’t understand it and don’t care about it!
Oh dearie me…..
… seems we have been visited by one of the “heavily medicated” leftists with incoherent irrational prattle.
SAD.. but great for the laugh !!
Only one?
So far you haven’t made one coherent post in relation to the article, and you ignored that authors query about what are you talking about.
You are here to create fog……………..
Did you try to read your post.
Maybe you thought you knew what you were saying through whatever haze you were in.
But nobody else can make any sense of it whatsoever.
I don’t use any of the AI things.
Maybe somebody will enter this ramble into one and ask it what it means?
The results might be even more amusing.
Thanks Kip. Coincidentally, I was browsing the NASA site a few days ago looking at sea level stuff and was also appalled by the content, including the part you mention. Some time ago I spent a few weekend mornings scrolling through the websites of 10 or 12 major institutions, both governmental and scientific, looking at their climate change information. Two things stood out. First, the quality of the information was terrible. It was really bad. The same mistakes and outright falsehoods are repeated everywhere. For example, many of the institutions proclaim that climate model agreement is a measure of climate model reliability. It’s hard to believe major institutions would make such a grotesque mistake, but they do. The National Academy of Sciences does this, for example, as does MIT and others. That’s the first thing that struck me. Everyone is repeating the same stuff and much of it is easily disproven. The second thing that struck me is the garbage nature of the secondary material. In the secondary material, the climate change guidance becomes even more outrageous. Check out the propaganda for example on the American Astronomical Society webpage. There’s an instruction to teachers about how to deal with “deniers” for example.
How I deal with climate zealots: “Oh! I agree with you, the climate is changing, and we need to do more, but first, we need funding!” as I hold out my hand, palm upward.
gc ==> Besides recommending Skeptical Science as a “reliable source” — how much worse can it be?
Yes Kip. You and I are on the same page. I was going to mention in my previous post that many of the institutions recommend Skeptical Science. Frightening. It really is amazing how badly NOAA, NASA, universities and major science institutions have failed when it comes to climate change matters. And the scariest part is that governments of all kinds, including local councils, accept without question the information they get from those institutions. The sea level information provided by NOAA and NASA is a prime example of terrible climate change instruction and articles like yours are very helpful in exposing the problem. Unfortunately, all around the world governments are implementing sea level mitigation plans to deal with the ridiculous sea level projections of NASA and many other major institutions.
I’ve mentioned this before- but, their motto is that they’re skeptical of climate skeptics- so I posted there, “Is it OK to be skeptical of people who are skeptical of climate skeptics?”. I got a warning that any more posts like that and I’d be locked out.
I made one comment at SS a long time ago. Said we liked warming in Michigan and anted more. Which is true. Within an hour the comment was deleted and I was permanently blocked from making future comments.
True for most of the world, including here in southern Ontario! Feels like -15°C apparently.
To whom does it feel like -15C? No one seems to know.
>> For example, many of the institutions proclaim that climate model agreement is a measure of climate model reliability.
A model without the right parameters has no “skill” as they call it, yet there are examples of models with wrong cloud parameters or assuming a flat Earth (the real form is an oblate and it matter for climate predictions) getting seemingly a trend correct we observe in the real world.
Why not use filtered drawings of 4 year olds? They are much cheaper and can be cute!
BECAUSE IT MAKES NO SENSE! .. right..
>> how to deal with “deniers” for example.
BTW, I take offense in this term! Historically it is an attempt to put climate skeptics with holocaust deniers and I take pride to follow all evidence openly not denying anything!
(But your statement is okay with the quotation marks.. )
Some entertaining content on NASA sites:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160215020246/www.jpl.nasa.gov/edu/news/2016/2/11/celebrating-women-in-science
https://web.archive.org/web/20180923210629/mars.nasa.gov/resources/7705/women-in-science/
Open these in two tabs and switch to compare pictures.
WOW.. NASA uses the same picture in two different places about the same thing.
Utterly astounding !!
Now that’s impressive crimestop. By the way, what got you so excited about such an ordinary thing? :]
You were the one brought it up !!.
TBeholder ==> Hmmm….why did they delete the black woman who was working at the desk on the left when they re-used the image from 2016?
Probably a cleaner sitting at a desk waiting to clean the room…, note the different colour lanyan.
Whether deleted in one or inserted in another, little details like this underscore the level of trustworthiness of things you can see on their site, don’t they?
Photoshopping a guy in a promo shot of women is not a federal offense – and I’m one to find everything else NASA does as a federal offense to taxpayers and honest scientists everywhere and yet I can’t see why you care.
That’s not a black woman… probably deleted him because he wasn’t supposed to be in the shot, he’s looking down, biding his time waiting for the photo-op to end.
If anyone one is wondering about this nerd-quest, click on the link that says “view larger image” and that will help in the comparison. If you haven’t wasted enough time, you could go through old Apollo photos looking for reflections of camera crews in the astronauts’ visors.
Both articles show a date of February 2016, so not surprising that the picture is the same!
They were copied by archive.org on different days, but the original articles are from the same date.
“climate model agreement is a measure of climate model reliability”. Neither of which has anything to do with climate. They are both computer-generated guesses driven by massaged numbers.
nailed it!
Thanks, Kip. I sent Heather a strongly worded, but not abusive, comment about Sea Level. I suspect I’m not on her Christmas Card list anymore. Disgusting how taxpayer money is politicized.
Ron ==> Thank you…let us know if you get a response.
Indoctrination and abuse are not mutually exclusive, are they? I’d call the two attracted in the magnetic sense of the word.
Coach ==> Cults of all kinds use home schooling or cult-owned private schools to indoctrinate their youth. The outside world sees this clearly as child abuse.
Now the Climate Cult has taken over our public schools and is doing the same.
Parents should join PTA and their local schools curriculum committees and insist in seeing the Science and Climate Change materials being used.
Now, here is the problem: They will say “We use the best science available, prepared for children, by NASA and NOAA.”
Even the “corrected” version is misleading (mal-information). Remove the map altogether, because today’s visual generation will not read or absorb the text. Their eyes will be drawn to the map of flooded areas and not connect it to the millennia required.
Plus, it completely ignores adaptation as well as natural land and beach-forming processes. Erosion and transport processes can work counter to sea level rise in some places. People, given hundreds to thousands of years notice, will adapt – raise dikes and sea walls, lift structures, rebuild further inland, etc.
The entire emphasis should be REASSURANCE. The process is very slow, almost imperceptable, spanning many lifetimes. There is nothing to worry about. Live your life, enjoy the beach and the sea.
pflashgordon ==> well, maybe….a little bit at a time. Of course there is no reason to have the map at all — it is entirely propagandistic, and totally inappropriate for grade-school kids.
I’d like to remove all their administrators of the site, send them out for deprogramming and have them start over with the project altogether.
Have them all be interviewed by a committee of the US congress, in a county that is at least 80% Republican, while also sworn to testify to a Grand Jury of that same county investigating fraud among those providing information to the children of that county.
THEN let them tell their l!es.
The SMART ones will claim the 5th. The dumb ones can then be prosecuted for perjury.
Either way, they can then be fired from their federal jobs, with a notation that they can NEVER be rehired for any Federally Funded position, so NO college or university, etc.
Then they can do what they are possibly qualified to do, drive for Uber of Lyft, or flip burgers at MickeyDees.
“Some of these dysfunctional children now teach in those universities and our public schools.”
And glue themselves to roads, throw soup on paintings, and the like.
And NASA’s JPL is where the vocal climate activist Peter Kalmus works (or worked – not completely sure that’s still the case).
David ==> “vocal climate activist Peter Kalmus” — I know a lot of people for whom their internal demons manifest themselves outwardly in nutty social and political activism. Don’t know Kalmus personally, but he does he same. Compassion and pity are the correct response.
“Compassion and pity are the correct response.” Agreed.
But I would say our government should tell him to separate his status as a “NASA climate scientist” from his activism. His X (fka Twitter) profile says “NASA climate scientist. Arrested for defending Earth.“
David Dibbell ==> Self-positioning is a propaganda technique of all self-promoters. FBI/CIA officials forcing social media companies to censor domestic political enemies – calling themselves “defenders of democracy”.
In this world, the media portrays anti-democratic forces as heroes when they fight to have the opposing opinions deleted from the internet, without regard to truth value.
I can’t have compassion for anyone pimping the “climate crisis” crap.
Their proposed “solutions” to their imaginary “crisis” will do far more harm to humanity than any changes to the Earth’s climate ever will.
Ever? You are predicting more than a billion years into the future or predicting that humans just won’t last long enough to see the damage?
It got to be like this all over the place.
Remember the “NASA furry” debacle? Is there any reason to assume that only this one intern who happened to attract attention just happened to almost slip through their nets, but otherwise they make sure all their new cadres are up to the highest standards of sanity and decent behaviour?
Story tip – Rebel News Reporter Confronts Kerry at Davos – PJ Media
The BBC is tied into education through various programmes such as Bitesize
What is climate change? Auntie explains
“”Human activities are causing world temperatures to rise, with more intense heatwaves and rising sea-levels among the consequences.
Things are likely to worsen in the coming decades, but scientists argue urgent action can limit the worst effects of climate change.””
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24021772
Why are kids depressed?
strativarius ==> Kids are messed up because they are being lied to. Taught propaganda talking points instead of the simple truths about climate change.
Even the “more intense heatwaves” thing is not true — there are intense heatwaves, but not more and not “more intense”. (an additional 1/10th of a degree doesn’t count as more).
They are not taught that deaths from weather events of all types are down down down to almost nothing compared to the past. This is TRUE. They are not taught that Bangladesh once lost 300-500,000 people in a hurricane, but the latest hurricane of the same magnitude, Bangladesh lost almost no one through better civil defense planning.
They are not taught that crop yields are rising due to improved weather, warmer weather, longer growing seasons and more CO2 in the atmosphere. These things are TRUE.
They are not taught in any sort of balanced way — teachers that taught a balanced view would be fired and they know it.
I realise that, Kip.
IPCRESS does work
For those not in the know ==> IPCRESS
Has it not been so for thousands of years? Has all the preaching about the devil and hellfire descending because of the normal curiosities of adolescence created some damaged souls?
Ignoring sin is what causes the damaged souls! That’s been true since at least AD 400 – read St. Augustine’s Confessions, and stop paying attention to the idiot box and pop psychology.
Even the “more intense heatwaves” thing is not true
Kip–> I grew up in southern CA. I remember some pretty nasty heatwaves in the 70’s and early 80’s.
While I don’t live in CA anymore, I regularly see how things are going there, and I definitely don’t see anything to indicate “more” or “more intense”. The only way there are “more” is because they’ve probably changed the definition to make it easier to calls something a “heatwave”
Tony_G ==> LA born and raised, myself. And — oh man, the smog….
On the plus side, UK kids watch YouTube, not the BBC.
Third of UK teenagers believe climate change exaggerated, report shows | Climate crisis | The Guardian
The Guardian is very concerned.
MCourtney ==> Yes,I saw that. quite refreshing — and they are right, of course.
Thanks for the good news – my son’s are definitely climate change skeptics, thank God!
When did JPL become an organ of the democrat party? I thought it was in the rockets, Mars landers, etc., business.
Nik ==> Have you been living in a cave for the last two decades? Since the loss of Dick Feynman, CalTech (the university involved) is a stronghold of liberal progressive politics, only partially disguised to appear sciencey.
“…but every inch of sea level rise covers 50-100 inches of beach.”
What the heck does that even mean? One inch of sea level rise causes the water line to move inland 50-100 inches? Unlike on the West Coast, the water slope on the Atlantic side is very shallow, so in spots you can wade hundreds of feet into the water from the beach and still keep your head above the water line. That’s already baked into the cake, so to speak, and between the tidal and meteorological variations (low pressure, storm surges, winds), no one would ever notice a seven inch change over a hundred years, let alone a single inch.
johnesm ==> Yes, the NASA team seems to be functionally innumerate in that statement. There is simply no way that such a statement can be said to be true .. there is no generally accepted (or physically true) “slope of beaches”.
It might be true if they had said “1 inch of sea level rise could cover 50 to 100 inches of beach” but you’d have to have a very shallow sloped beach for that to be true.
Did they even include the possibility of land subsidence?
barryjo ==> Land Subsidence is a big part of the Sea level Rise issue when considering Tide Gauge records — our only actual physical measurements of Sea Level Rise. Tide Gauges measure Local Relative Sea Level, which includes vertical land movement and changes in the height of the sea surface.
The nonsense in the map shown by NASA is entirely made up by calculating the mass/volume of ice on Greenland, melting it all, and adding that much water to the oceans, then calculating how much higher the sea surface would be.
Greenland was last “mostly ice free” about 416,000 years ago, maybe.
Man made climate change has now been completely debunked by the work of Dr. FM Miskolczi. He has a new paper out that describes how the atmosphere actually handles energy. While the conclusions are no different than his 2010 paper and the new paper is still complex, it is more readable and structured better.
https://scienceofclimatechange.org/wp-content/uploads/Miskolczi-2023-Greenhouse-Gas-Theory.pdf
“It is also shown, that the Earth-atmosphere system is in radiative equilibrium with a theoretical solar constant, and all global mean flux density components satisfy the theoretical expectations. The greenhouse effect predicted by the Arrhenius greenhouse theory is inconsistent with the existence of this radiative equilibrium. Hence, the CO2 greenhouse effect as used in the current global warming hypothesis is impossible.”
Interesting.
Richard M ==> “Man made climate change has now been completely debunked by the work of Dr. FM Miskolczi.”
Those interested in Miskolczi’s theory can do a brief ‘net search for his name . It has been noticed, spoken of, but not made great inroads into the climate science world.
More than a theory. He uses NOAA radiosonde data to show that CO2 has not caused any warming since 1948.
Richard M ==> Your are at a web site, a blog, that is written and read mostly by people with a great deal of insight into science and how it should be done. Many of the readers here are well-published scientists from many fields.
They all know the difference between a hypothesis and a theory and something that has been “proven”.
My saying that Miskolczi’s work was a theory elevated it far above its real scientific status, which is that of HYPOTHESIS.
If and when it has been challenged repeatedly and failed to be shown flawed, it will be a “well-supported hypothesis”.
Maybe, someday. Right now it is just two papers (I might have the number wrong, I know of two).
I am a member of the CO2 Coalition, headed by Will Happer, and have my own understanding about CO2 — that it is not a major cause of planetary atmospheric warming and probably, overall, a net positive.
You can read my understanding on Climate here and here.
It will never be “challenged” by climate science because it is based on empirical data. The data doesn’t lie. They will nitpick and ignore it unless it starts getting a lot of press.
The biggest problem is the paper itself is so complex.
“the CO2 greenhouse effect as used in the current global warming hypothesis is impossible.”
And people who say that
are impossibly stupid
Did you read the paper? Nope? I guess name calling is your forte. Yes, the paper is very complex. Are you up to it?
Nope, dickie-boy will NOT BE ABLE to read or understand the paper.
He is NOT a scientist of any sort.
ie, dickie-boy has his hard-set brain-washed lukewarmer anti-science.
… and no actual science will budge his limited anti-science understanding of reality.
I’m convinced that people — especially younger people — have become profoundly innumerate. Unable to grok what proportionality is, between numbers and relationships of numbers.
In Kip’s article’s example, “if it continues this fast”, followed by 7 inches per hundred years, then the great leap to 20 feet. Wait: “if it continues this fast” means taking 7 inches and dividing by 100 years to be 0.07 inches a year. THEN, armed with that rate (which satisfies “continues this fast”), we take the 20 feet, convert to inches (×12 = 240) and divide by rate (&dif; 0.07) to get years. 3,400 years.
Thirty four HUNDRED years. Very likely the world’s entire spaghetti-of-nations will change at least 8 times or more in that same period.
But innumeracy is at the root of it all. There are hundreds of videos on YouTube that display ordinary people-on-the-street completely failing in the numeracy talent. Completely.
Remember this the next time an outrageous meme infests your internet feed.
⋅-⋅-⋅ Just saying, ⋅-⋅-⋅
⋅-=≡ GoatGuy ✓ ≡=-⋅
Goat Guy ==> (In a funny association, my wife was know for years as “The Goat Lady” who supplied goat’s milk for those mothers whose children could not tolerate cow’s milk.)
Certainly true, children are left innumerate. I would have caught this nonsense as a 5th grader in a second. I was a snottily smart science-math geeky kid. The Teacher would say, teaching multiplication and division, “write in the board how to determine how many apples in a pound if each apple weighs 4 ounces.” I would write it as an algebraic equation.
So, are the NASA propagandists innumerate? Or are they intentionally trying to bamboozle or indoctrinate children by using numbers to confuse them?
Or maybe repeating tripe without thinking about it at all?
Got it in 1.
My daughter needed the services of a goat lady in Las Vegas. So happy to hear your wife provided that service.
As to your final question, it can only be intentional when providing such propaganda. Just like the Glacier National Park the glaciers will all be gone sign clowns.
Every one of these declarations need to have a name attached as to WHO in the government made this crap up.
Just a small point:
Most of those predictions aim for 2100, this is not 100, but 75 years from now!
morfu ==> When NASA or NOAA makes these “sea level rise will be” predictions, they usually date them. In this case, they posit 100 years, the then throw in 20 feet…..
But, you are right when they say “X feet by 2100” it is now only 76 years away and that requires a lot of SLR very fast — which we are not going to see. And every year we don’t see those huge increases in SLR rate, it increases the rate necessary in the remaining years before 2100.
IOW, we will be doomed faster?
Maybe if the moon actually sinks into the sea.
A suggestion is made to email The Program Manager is Heather Doyle, who can be contacted at climatekids@jpl.nasa.gov.
Fine and good, but you really should email your Congressman and Senators as they control the money.
Retired ==> sort of, yes….but….your Senator or Congressman has a bevy of idiots that handle their mail form their pesky constituents. The Senator and Congressman never ever sees your letter. he may receive a “mail summary” like “1238 letters in support of Bill #23, 27 letters opposed”.
Heather Doyle is required by regulations to be responsive. I actually have found NASA and NOAA employees to be pretty good, almost always receive a pleasant response, though not always helpful.
Public exposure, such as this opinion piece, are probably more effective. This post will be picked up by a least a dozen other sites, and more and more people will be invited to write to Heather. It may prompt her to reconsider the message climatekids is resenting.
You just might get through directly to the “Senator or Congressman” if you attach a large enough check.
This is junk “science”. Look at the west coast of California, Crescent city NOAA tide gauge. The sea level is FALLING because the land is rising. The sea level is not a global issue, it’s a local issue.
https://tidesandcurrents.noaa.gov/sltrends/sltrends_station.shtml?id=9419750
Doug S ==> I have written literally dozens of times that Sea Level Rise as measured by Tide Gauges is always and only a local issue. When stated for a location, it is always Local Relative Sea Level that we are discussing. So-called Global sea Level and its rise and fall mean absolutely NOTHING to Crescent City.
Thanks to the link to the Crescent City T&C page…interested in both the trend there and the explanatory text below the graph
College age indoctrination is a done deal for the Marxists, now they are starting as early as possible. Didn’t a Pope say something to the effect “give me your children and they’ll be Catholics for life”?
Get them as young as possible and direct them into the hive mind has been an official doctrine of the major teacher’s associations/unions since sometime in the 1800. for some while they openly admitted this in their official publications but eventually realized they would get less resistance by keeping publicly quite.
“quiet”?
More accurately, given the proclivities of these priests, he should have said, “they’ll be catatonic for life.”
We can’t shelter our children from these adults who have been addled by decades of belonging to one church or another, spewing nonsense about the world being doomed unless they adhere to their strict doctrine.
Whether it’s the Catholic church or the NASA church, these dangerous adults are everywhere. We must find a way to teach our children how to think for themselves. Critical thinking is no longer taught in the schools. Even in Ivy League universities, indoctrination and fealty to ChatGPT style cultivated computer modeling is preached at every turn.
For Catholic parents, it was traumatic to learn that they couldn’t trust Popes and their fellow priests. They fought this knowledge for centuries until finally it became so prevalent that parents knew better.
What the NASA church is doing is different, obviously. But it’s also abusive and can ruin your child’s life. I don’t know if this generation can be rescued, but the only way to do this is to ensure that your children learn to think and analyze for themselves.
Check your bigotry at the door.
story tip
NEW – Harvard’s Naomi Oreskes says X is “such a toxic place” with a “scary name” at Klaus Schwab’s WEF.
https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/watch-globalist-wef-speak-complains-x-toxic-scary-musks-policies-are-problematic
Musk answers : X is literally just a letter from the alphabet lmao
…
Does that mean “the ork” will stop pushing her anti-science, anti-human, anti-society, marxist prattle.
X is a much better place without people like her.
Comparing geological and climate changes to human vital signs probably isn’t a valid argument in the first place. The human vital signs in the cartoon (Do children pay more attention to cartoons than other stimuli? Or do adults just think that they do?) aren’t part of a linear progression that’s implied in the sea level rise. A human’s blood pressure or temperature must stay within certain parameters or death results. And they vary according to age and other factors. They’re not linear. The same might be the case with sea level. In fact, we know that it is. Sea level has gone up and down. It can be described as a linear process caused by human activity but there’s no real proof of that.
Additionally, if it will take 3400 years for the sea level to inundate the coast of Florida to the extent on the map, what will be destroyed? How many human habitations from 3400 BCE exist on earth today? How far into the future are structures built recently in south Florida or any other coastal area expected to be used as they are today? Are the climate anxious saying that in an imaginary world of climate stasis Hallandale Beach, Florida will look pretty much as it does now thousands of years into the future? One of the reasons that there’s a continuing argument over the Elgin Marbles is that they are a very rare example of part of a structure surviving so long. If all of the Greek infrastructure of that era survived to this day the Elgin Marbles would still be important but hardly unique.
general ==> Cartoons do communicate better to kids….the simple and recognizable characters represent concepts that they understand. A child in the nurse’s office with a thermometer in its mouth is a lived experience.
The Little Earth shown obviously having a dangerously — off the top of the thermometer — high fever communicates. The fact that it is not true in any sense whatever is what makes it propaganda.
The Global Average Surface Temperature is currently just under 15°C — which is the expected temperature for an Earth-like planet and the expected average temperature of Planet Earth according to NASA.
.the simple and recognizable characters represent concepts that they understand.
Children aren’t feeble-minded miniature adults but they are willing to pretend that they are on certain occasions. It’s true that they can be influenced by propaganda but obviously adults can be as well. You might be able to remember your own childhood when you heard adults say things that you knew to be ridiculous. I sure do. The biggest communication problem for children is having a small vocabulary, something that’s an issue for adults also, especially where scientific matters are concerned. Children should be confronted with intellectual problems, the solving of which will serve them well on their way to adulthood.
Unfortunately these issues on climate change are not easily debunked. The decades of programming by climate scientists, educational institutions, governments, and media create a belief system. Logic, reason, and facts have little effect on belief systems since those believers are also taught to beware of the snakes who would try to convince them otherwise. They will literally tune out and roll their eyes.
jeb ==> And you are correct. But we can and do expect better of our national institutions — and publicly pointing out their transgressions is what the Climate Crisis advocates call “spreading doubt” — how dare the public expect the truth from NASA? After all, NASA is trying to “help” the kids understand how scary and dangerous climate change is — truth be damned.
Lying and fear mongering abuses everyone especially children:
Instead of optimism, independence, a spirt of discovery and innovation you have pessimism, fear, dependency and a narrowed focus of desire resulting in a very small life. Using propaganda to truncate the desire of children is abuse. This is the fruit of the prevailing dystopic narrative, which is baseless and false. This is massively damaging for our families and local communities.
If people have the power to shape and control the masses they will. They are self righteous wrongdoers justified only by their perception of their own power. They are deluded and deranged and have no real wisdom regardless of their pedigree and IQ score.
It’s time to take away their power by ignoring them and stop being so dependent on their capital. (real and intellectual). It’s time for everyone to spend more time having fun with each other doing fun creative stull in local communities and enjoy reading the old books.
The health care system is the other fear mongering culprit…..and the message is, ‘if you have been successful in life, masterful, then you have the opportunity to help your self with our products” if not your doomed to suffer. Frankly, I am at peace with being doomed to suffer. The real problem is the meta-message to our kids.
The GenZ population is preoccupied with physical ailments and diagnosis and are using health care services at a record rate….20 year old’s worried about every little thing about their body.
I suspect 80 years ago the fear mongers would have been publicly shamed and laughed at and anyone who repeated their message would have received blood lip. Today it’s sophisticated and shrouded in psych tech and the culprits are untouchables.
JC ==> I can’t keep the lettered “generations” straight. The real problem, in my opinion, is that children are no longer taught to think and reason — and I believe it is to keep them from questioning those who claim to be their “betters”.
Because they cannot reason their way through the labyrinth of media and political nonsense, they believe Harry Potter is real, that crystals protect them from evil, and magical herbs will save them from illnesses.
Kip,
I am one of those lucky guys to raise kids during my 50’s and 60’s. My kids were homeschooled. They are both in college now. We carefully taught them logic and rhetoric. We provided years of intellectually honest opportunity for debate on all the issues they were interested in. We worked hard to encourage critical thinking. Both my kids were well educated when they went to Wheaton and Geneva colleges. We did not allow free access to devices and Wi-Fi until age 17, My kids grew up in a large circle of friends from local churches.
Since leaving for college, they have become completely hooked to their devices spending 5-9 hours a day on their devices. Now after 2-3 years of college both kids are full of anxiety and somatic concerns. My daughter is endlessly going to the doctor for unfounded medical concerns at age 20. My daughter has a ton of critical thinking skills and has defaulted to climate change and is full of despair about her future for no rational reason.
My son is bright enough to get good grades with minimal work which is good because he is unable to free himself from his devices to keep track of his classes and do his work.
This is the world our kids live in. The devices are addictive and the fear and dystopic narrative is the air they breath.
Fortunately, both my kids want to marry soon and start families. The trouble is finding suitable partners because my kids desire for marriage is an anomaly even in their Christian subculture.
Kip, Way back when WUWT was a pretty young site there was the controversy over, first, the NOAA approved “experiment” regarding temperature trend of plastic bottles filled with CO2 vs. bottles filled with “air” (which or may not have been saturated with water vapor). Total nonsense as I had some of my physics labs try to repeat the NOAA instructions and got a spectrum of results. Second, then Al Gore and that “Science Guy” tried to repeat the same crap years later. In effect government is always engaged in propaganda through its science agencies or court scientists in an effort to guard against too much thinking among its captive citizenry.
I had a NASA grant just before I retired and found, at the conclusion of the contract, there were multiple NASA offices demanding the exact same report about how many persons of various skin color I have employed or impacted, and how many persons of other categories, as well. NASA itself is a strange operation. Contractors probably do most of the real work — the rest is a jobs program.
Kevin ==> WUWT, Anthony mainly, has done tremendous work over the years helping to fight the utter nonsense and pure propaganda shoveled out by government agencies in the US and UK and ANZO.
The emphasis on non-science matters at these agencies has weakened them and made them foolish.
Which innumerate activist, hired because they were right-thinking or had the right ethnicity for today’s hiring target, decided to threaten grade-school kids that “if the sea level keeps rising this fast” it will inundate southern Florida including all of Miami under 20 feet of water?
That’s OK. The land level where I live has risen 12 inches over the last 100 years due to earthquakes. And all the rain and rivers keep washing more sand into the ocean over the last 100 years. Oh, and we are also 16 feet farther north over the last 100 years. One more thing to consider, everyone who was alive 100 years ago is now dead.
Anything else I should worry about?
doonman ==> The latest answer is micro- and nano-plastic pollution. Better read up on it or it will be replaced by something else before you work up the government-required level of anxiety.
Story tip – https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2024/01/17/wef-climate-crazies-call-for-new-international-crime-of-ecocide/
in that article
“The International Criminal Court should add “ecocide” to its brief alongside genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes to criminalise the side effects of farming, fishing and energy production, a green activist argued during the annual World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, Switzerland.”
They don’t mention forestry- but in Wokeachusetts, forestry is now considered a great evil. So there is a push on by the state administration to stop most forestry- allowing just a wee bit of token forestry. Unfortunately, the forestry folks are too timid to fight back- in fact, they mostly seem to agree with the climate BS. No way to fight back if you believe that.
ecocide….. that would be destroying all the things that that allow humans to live a happy free existence..
The WEF is top criminal , followed closely by the UN, and anyone else that follows the “Net-Zero” totalitarian con.