New York City Zero Emission Vehicle Fleet Legislation

Roger Caiazza

A recent post, New York City Goes Pedal to the Metal on Electric Vehicles, at Watts Up with That described new legislation that will require vehicles procured by the City to be zero emissions.  The author of the article, Charles Rotter, included a note at the top: “I can’t wait for Francis Menton or Roger Caiazza to weigh in on this.”  It is a rainy Saturday and I don’t have anything else to do so I will take a shot at it.

Benefits

I try to look at environmental policy pragmatically balancing benefits and costs.  The benefits used to rationalize the law are weak.  Rotter quoted the Statements made by two of the politicians responsible for the legislation that make benefits claims:

“New York City continues to set the standard for sustainability by becoming the largest city in the nation to require its fleet to be entirely made up of zero emission vehicles,” said Speaker Adrienne Adams. “The Council is proud to champion legislative efforts to address the environmental and health impacts of vehicle pollution, reduce our carbon footprint, and prepare our workforce for the repair and maintenance of electric vehicles. I thank Majority Leader Keith Powers for his leadership on this critical legislation, my Council colleagues for supporting policies that transition us to a more sustainable future, and Mayor Adams for signing the bill into law.”

“New York City continues to lead the country in creating a greener, more sustainable world,” said Majority Leader Keith Powers. “Today’s signing of Intro. 279 enacts a historic piece of legislation that will drive down our city’s carbon footprint and advance environmental justice. Starting in just two years, our city’s fleet of over 30,000 vehicles will lead the way towards a zero-emissions future. I am proud to have worked with numerous partners to have made today a reality.”

The majority of New York City and State politicians cater to the climate advocate constituency and these statements reflect that.  Adams ticks all the boxes in the narrative that reducing GHG emissions also reduces pollutants that will have environmental and health benefits, the existential threat of climate change will be reduced, and the transition will create jobs.  Even a cursory review shows how shallow those claims are.  The shift to “zero-emissions” ignores the reality that all energy production creates emissions somewhere.  In this case there may not be emissions in New York City, but the mining, processing, and manufacturing of the needed batteries necessary certainly creates emissions.  Jobs created by the “green” technologies are always mentioned but the jobs lost are rarely mentioned. 

Another characteristic of these politicians is innumeracy.  The city fleet has 30,000 vehicles.  I calculate that those vehicles are responsible for about 400,000 tons of CO2 emissions per year.  Driving down the “city’s carbon footprint” needs to be considered in the context of global emissions.  The Global Energy Monitor mission is “to develop and share information in support of the worldwide movement for clean energy”.  As part of their mission, they have prepared a spreadsheet with data on all coal-fired power plants in the world.  Table 1 is based on that data.  It lists capacity and projected annual CO2 emissions for three categories of power plants: operating, permitted but not yet under construction, and under construction.  Every hour the operating coal-fired power plants emit 1,245,158 tons of CO2.  That means that the CO2 reductions due converting the New York City owned fleet of vehicles will be subsumed by coal fired emissions elsewhere on the globe in 0.3 hours or 19 minutes.  This law will not have any discernable effect on global warming.

Costs

My concerns with New York State and New York City (NYC) “zero-emission” transition costs are related to reliability and affordability.  Noodling around on the NYC fleet management site I found this description:

New York City operates over 30,000 owned and leased vehicles, the largest municipal fleet in the United States. NYC maintains fleet units at 37 main repair locations and has over 400 in-house fueling and 400 separate electric charging locations. More than 2,000 staff work full-time in fleet repair and garage operations across over 50 fleet operating agencies and offices. In total, nearly $1 billion is spent annually on fleet repair, fueling, and procurement.

I found a page that includes a table that describes the fleet daily service report which lists the number of vehicles for each agency and what they are used for to give an idea of the importance of reliability.  The NYC fleet includes the police department and fire department vehicles which must provide reliable service.  I suspect that relying on electric-only fire equipment will be very risky because of the high energy demands needed to operate those trucks.  The last thing in the world you want to have happen is for a pumper truck to lose power when fighting a fire.  The vehicle fleet includes sanitation trucks which are also used to plow snow.  However, there is an issue: “city officials have declared they have yet to find an electric garbage truck powerful enough to plow snow. The sanitation department already tested electric trucks, and they couldn’t plow snow for more than four hours, as they ran out of battery. “

Digging deeper into the fleet management site, there is a sustainability page that claims that “New York City’s fleet is the greenest in the nation”. They already have some electric vehicles:

The City of New York operates over 2,260 on-road electric vehicles (EVs) and plug-in hybrids. Full EVs include over 250 Nissan Leafs and over 300 Chevy Bolts, among others. The City has over 600 additional off-road EV and solar units. Please see our presentation Let’s Talk about EVs to learn how to charge an EV and the differences between an EV and the conventional fuel vehicles you may be used to driving.

The sustainability page also notes:

DCAS is rapidly expanding its base of electric chargers to support its electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles. We have installed over 1,600 charging ports across over 1,025 charging stations, including over 180 fast-charging stations, at City garages and parking locations around the city. We have deployed over 80 solar carports that allow EVs to be completely independent from the electrical grid and fossil fuel energy. We have partnered with City schools to provide both solar chargers and EVs to support education programs and adopted other solar powered city equipment.

It appears to me that the vehicle fleet service has been given the charge to look at a transition to lower emission vehicles and are proceeding on that path.

I have been following the transition to electric vehicles and have been struck by the higher cost of electric vehicles so I wondered about the costs of this law.  I checked the law itself and supporting documents to see if costs had been addressed.  The law is titled A Local Law to amend the administrative code of the city of New York, in relation to the purchase of zero emission vehicles by the city.  The description states:


This bill would require that all light- and medium-duty vehicles procured by the City after July 1, 2025 be zero emission vehicles such that all light- and medium-duty vehicles in the City’s fleet are zero emission vehicles by July 1, 2035. This bill would also require that all heavy-duty vehicles procured by the City after July 1, 2028 be zero emission vehicles, such that all heavy-duty vehicles in the City’s fleet are zero emission vehicles by July 1, 2038. Further, this bill would require that all motorcycles in the City’s fleet are zero emission vehicles by July 1, 2035. The requirements to procure zero emission vehicles are subject to certain exceptions, such as cost, availability, and lack of charging infrastructure.

The last sentence is a welcome reality slap – the procurement requirements are conditional upon costs among other things.  I thought the Fiscal Impact Statement would provide information about costs relative to this condition.  The following excerpt from that statement is a head scratcher:

I guess the current fiscal impact statement is a placeholder.  Presumably sometime before Fiscal Year 2029 the expenditures and source of funds will be determined.  Then the cost exception requirements to procure zero emission vehicles will be considered.

Conclusion

The New York City Department of Citywide Administrative Services fleet management department has a sustainability program in place that tests options for lower emissions and zero emissions vehicles.  Some of their tests are working and others are not.  The key point is that these are the folks responsible for keeping the vehicles necessary to protect the city and provide services and they are working on it.  Mind you I think trying to convert the NYC vehicle fleet to zero-emissions is a waste of time and effort that will likely do more harm than good.

Enter the politicians.  The legislation does include conditions upon deployment but it appears that the issue is already being addressed.  I would bet a lot of money that the fleet staff reacted to the bragging by the politicians who supported this legislation with exasperated sighs and eye-rolling.  As far as I can tell this legislation only provides street cred for politician target constituencies and does nothing but get in the way of the people who are trying to get things done. 


Roger Caiazza blogs on New York energy and environmental issues at Pragmatic Environmentalist of New York.  This represents his opinion and not the opinion of any of his previous employers or any other company with which he has been associated.

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Bryan A
October 28, 2023 6:17 pm

This article quotes data referencing Police 135 Roster / 127 active
Wiki however says …
Police vehicles in New York City – Wikipedia
en.m.wikipedia.org › wiki › Police_vehic…
The New York City Police Department vehicle fleet consists of 9,624 police cars, 11 boats, eight helicopters, and numerous other vehicles
2 questions…
Will NYC electrify their Helicopter Fleet too?
Is it 135 cars or 9624 (per WIKI)?

rogercaiazza
Reply to  Bryan A
October 28, 2023 6:29 pm

The 135 cars is in the DEP (department of environmental protection?). There are 504 for the NYPD (New York Police Department) traffic category. I am not sure where the Wiki number comes from.

I can’t believe they will go to electric helicopters anytime soon.

Bryan A
Reply to  rogercaiazza
October 28, 2023 9:15 pm

Perhaps the WIKI numbers are affected by Bidenflation

Reply to  rogercaiazza
October 29, 2023 5:43 am

The wiki number is far more plausible than 135 or even 504! There are 36,000 police officers in NYC, plus 11,000 civilian employees.
https://www.nyc.gov/site/nypd/about/about-nypd/about-nypd-landing.page

If you consider 3 shifts for covering 24 hours, that is 12,000 active officers at any one time, more likely in the day than the graveyard shift. If you have pairs of officers, you need at least 6,000 cars for those. Also you need to have 15-25% of your fleet in maintenance at any given time, and some other contingency figure for extras in case of problems, issues or large scale mobilization for a crisis….

So just over 9,000 vehicles is entirely plausible and realistic!

And no there will not be electric powered helicopters anytime soon! Helicopters are very poor power to weight ratio already, let alone attempting to make them electric. A Bell JetRanger or an MD500 have similar gross weight and cruise speed to a Cessna 172. But the C172 has a 150 HP engine and carries 42 gallons of fuel, and can go for 4-5 hours on that fuel. The two turbine powered helicopters mentioned above have 475 HP turbines, and carry 55 gallons of fuel, and can fly for 2 hours on that fuel, leaving a 30 minute reserve. (i.e. helicopters need 3X more power and fly for less than half the time on the same fuel quantity as a fixed wing aircraft with similar performance)

The ONLY certified all electric aircraft is an ultralight, with a mere 20 minute flight time to achieve a 30 minute reserve as mandated by the FAA:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiNtLBLveeM (Pipistrel Velis Electro: Cool, But Not For The U S Market)
Electrifying aviation is a joke, or a wish and prayer, or simply a cool novelty for something ultra light, and not very practical.

rogercaiazza
Reply to  D Boss
October 29, 2023 8:19 am

I could not readily find a table with the vehicles per application. When i found a table I went with it but the table shown is the critical fleets summary and it only totals 6,387 vehicles out of the 30,000 total. So 9,000 vehicles for the police department is plausible. However, why are they not counted as critical?

starzmom
Reply to  rogercaiazza
October 29, 2023 3:47 pm

Have you considered the defund the police efforts and loss of officers to retirement lately? Maybe they aren’t critical because there is no one to drive them.

HB
Reply to  Bryan A
October 28, 2023 6:29 pm

Just goes to show that the city is out of control

Scissor
Reply to  HB
October 28, 2023 7:26 pm
starzmom
Reply to  Bryan A
October 29, 2023 3:45 pm

Maybe they can only put 135 on the road at any one time? /sarc I don’t really believe that, but the discrepancy is astounding.

Reply to  Bryan A
November 2, 2023 9:01 pm

Wiki however says …”

Stop right there and ask yourself, exactly what NYC NYPD expert is filling out wiki info pages?

This is an obvious case of there is not a genuine expert spending time ‘keeping wiki accurate’.

If you need accurate information, wiki is not the place to find it!

October 28, 2023 6:31 pm

Most of it is virtue signaling BS , could anybody fit any more silly sustainability stupid tag lines in one notice or speech? They will go ahead and waste a bunch of money on some EVs for the car pool, for health inspectors, meter maids what ever. Maybe a couple of show pieces like a electric police command center that will end up rarely getting used. But for serious work vehicles- forget it.

Reply to  John Oliver
October 28, 2023 7:40 pm

Yes. The current EV are mostly for light loads of one driver and the journey to work and home again- with maybe charging at work or home or both.

Police vehicles are much heavier due to extra equipment and the general nature of their work is hard use Plus they are expected to be available for working 24/7- with down times for maintenance. Refuelling is expected to take 5 min or less
Reasonably sized and heavy duty cars dont exist that are electric, without huge increases in on board batteries – which increases the charging problem. And no very high charging rates drastically reduce battery life

Reply to  John Oliver
October 29, 2023 9:34 am

Most of it is virtue signaling BS

I glanced over the text, and it bears out your assessment. There appear to be a fair amount of carve-outs and exceptions so they can say “look what we’re doing” while not doing as much as they’re claiming.

HB
October 28, 2023 6:35 pm

In NZ Jabcinder Ardern declared that the public service would go to electric cars
Within 2 days the NZ police threw a tantrum and demanded a exception they got it .
The rest of the govt departments seem to be still ignoring it a few token hybrids is about all they have done
The whole thing is a massive failure

Reply to  HB
October 28, 2023 7:43 pm

You can thank the previous government to hers which signed the Paris Treaty and said 30% less CO2 by 2030 !
I can see a new government doubling down on the 30% target or break its promises.

HB
Reply to  Duker
October 28, 2023 8:20 pm

The coalition partners are hot on the negative effects of the net zero policies it has become apparent that the cure is worse than the disease
Watch this space

Reply to  HB
October 29, 2023 1:32 pm

Its an international treaty signen in Paris and legislated for inside NZ with the Nett Zero Carbon act- voted for all parties except one vote against

No room to walk away , except the Farmers will continue to have their share paid by taxpayers [ Yes its crazy that farming witch is maybe 90% or more sustanable with grass and water and sun is even counted at all]
But thats what the conservative party voted for without exception in 2019

Reply to  HB
October 29, 2023 3:28 am

It was certainly stupid of her to declare anything about the police fleet without talking to them first.

honestyrus
October 28, 2023 7:26 pm

EV manufacturers are facing soft sales and many are losing money on each vehicle.

They should probably double their prices and focus on selling to those who are *required* by law to purchase EV’s, such as New York and other jurisdictions with these silly mandates.

dk_
October 28, 2023 7:39 pm

That means that the CO2 reductions due converting the New York City owned fleet of vehicles will be subsumed by coal fired emissions elsewhere on the globe in 0.3 hours or 19 minutes.

Only if the electric fleet was charged by a nuclear power plant. The magic transition to electric will save no CO2, and cost more than simple replacement with IC using the same mix of fuels as currently employed. This is without adding the infrastructure to provide charging capacity for all those vehicles, with at least 80% of the charging probably taking place outside of business hours.

The opportunity is to change to natural gas powered vehicles and add infrastructure to store, distribute, and transfer CH4. Technology exists and the pollution savings are proven.

As for creating jobs, perhaps we could learn from the long-standing NYC practice of requiring three or more 8 hour union worker for jobs requiring a single, part-time, semiskilled worker. I think the transit system already has plenty of fine examples of those sorts of jobs.

MarkW
Reply to  dk_
October 29, 2023 7:51 am

New York’s electricity is still produced primarily by coal and gas. Switching to electric cars does not reduce CO2 emissions in the slightest.

While New York state does have some renewable production, the amount is small and not growing rapidly. Increasing demand for electricity by going EV does not mean the EVs are being charged by wind or solar. It just means what ever electricity is being produced by renewables is now being consumed by electrics instead of being used by something else. The increase is being covered by fossil fuel production.

rogercaiazza
Reply to  MarkW
October 29, 2023 8:22 am

New York no longer has any coal plants. There still are residual oil plants but they don’t run much. When the state shut down 2,000 MW of nuclear generating capacity that provided power to the City it was replaced mostly by natural gas.

dk_
Reply to  rogercaiazza
October 29, 2023 11:20 am

Is it true that NYC capacity is not supplied from coal in PA, NJ, CT, VT, or NH? I am absolutely sure that there are no operating coal fired plants in New York. What I’m unsure about is that there are none in nearby states. There was grid sharing across those borders once, and not long ago, West Virginia was still producing electricity balancing for New York pretty recently.

rogercaiazza
Reply to  dk_
October 30, 2023 7:26 am

I looked to see if I could find the emissions profile of imports into NY. No luck. There is a coal plant in NH that I think is the last one operating in New England. I found an article that said NJ is shutting down its last coal units. There are coal plants in PA and there is a direct tie from one to NY so there certainly is coal generation getting to New York City. I do think it is a small percentage because of limitations on transmission into the city.

dk_
Reply to  MarkW
October 29, 2023 11:12 am

It just means what ever electricity is being produced by renewables is now being consumed by electrics instead of being used by something else. The increase is being covered by fossil fuel production.

As I tried to say, the operating model for electric cars is to charge at night when there is no solar. On the averages, wind is available around 40% of the time, and adequate to demand about 20%, meaning that EVs will always be charged by other than “renewables.”

leefor
October 28, 2023 7:49 pm

There is no need for snow ploughs. Snow will be a rare and exciting event. /s

Reply to  leefor
October 28, 2023 8:14 pm

Twenty percent of the land is either permafrost or glaciers. The Earth is still in a 2.56 million-year ice age in a warmer but still cold interglacial period. Outside of the tropics, people can’t live outdoors without technology all year because it is too cold.

October 28, 2023 7:55 pm

It is a waste of money. In the countries where 90 percent of the world’s population lives they are building more cold-fired power plants and using other fossil fuels to aid in their growth, which is more important to them than a degree or two of warming.

Mr Ed
October 28, 2023 9:47 pm

NYC uses their garbage trucks to plow snow with, when it snows they mount the plow blades
and start plowing the streets and pushing it into the river . I have to wonder if EV garbage trucks that run all day will have enough juice to do double
duty clearing the streets of snow at night like they have done for years.
NYC was a much different place in with Rudy Giuliani as mayor than the ones since then.

Reply to  Mr Ed
October 29, 2023 3:35 am

I only heard about the garbage trucks doing plowing here on WUWT. I can’t imagine a garbage truck plowing. It’s too big and clumsy and not as maneuvarble as a dedicated snow plow. I’ve never plowed so I don’t know. It just seems bizarre to me. Do garbage trucks have all wheel drive or 4 wheel drive? I suppose they can do the job- but I’ve always believed use the right (best) tool for every job.

Mr Ed
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 29, 2023 7:28 am

Google–nyc garbage trucks plowing snow– several articles on the subject and
they’ve already tried it with electric garbage truck and it looks like the batteries
didn’t last more than 4 hrs. I spent a Christmas in NYC years ago and it snowed
hard pretty good one night. It was a big mess for the owners of cars parked on the
side streets on the upper west side, There’s videos online plowing===>

Reply to  Mr Ed
October 29, 2023 7:58 am

Watched the video- not sure why they have 4-5 garbage trucks in a row- all pushing the snow a few feet to the right- then the next one pushes it a few feet more to the right. I’ve watched snow plows (real ones, large and powerful) sometimes line up 2 in a row- mostly on interstate highways. But to have 4-5 garbage trucks in a row seems stupid, wasteful of fuel, and expensive of labor costs. But, I could be wrong- I dunno.

rogercaiazza
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 29, 2023 8:25 am

I guess that they use the garbage trucks because they don’t have room to store real snow plows. The problem is that they are not as powerful so they have to use more. Of course that causes the problems you point out.

Mr Ed
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 29, 2023 10:15 am

Our MDT went to “Tow Plows” a number of years ago. I like them on
the Interstate’s but on some of the mountain passes it can get a bit
iffy when you have one coming at you taking their half out of the middle
so to speak and you have a couple thousand ft drop to your side
and there’s a good foot of fresh snow on solid ice..====>

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 29, 2023 7:59 am

Here in central Arkansas, we don’t have any plows. The city just mounts sand and salt spreaders on some of the trucks.
I’ve lived here for 10 years and we’ve had 1/2 an inch twice and 2 inches once.
1/2 an inch usually melts on its own in less than 24 hours. The 2 inches took about 3 days to melt.

Iain Reid
October 29, 2023 1:18 am

Just calling electric vehicles ‘zero emissions’ does not make them so. (The U.K. government call them zero emissions because they have no tail pipe emissions, a child like description)

Grids that supply the ev chargers may have significant renewable generation feeding the grid but when you add to demand as large increase in ev uptake does means that the balancing generation that keeps the grid frequency in limits has to increase output. As renewables cannot do this it is normally fossil fuel generation that increases output, again in the U.K., this is gas generation.

It is slightly more involved than that depending on the rate of renewable output increase (not name plate capacity) that is added at the same time. Even then there has to be fossil fuel generation (Very few countries have significant hydro or nuclear genertaion to fulfill that role) to provide technical criteria that renewables lack and often run at low output thus reducing their efficiency and increasing their CO2 output per Megawatt hour.

Simply using, as most do, the average CO2 levels per megawatt hour generated on the grid overall gives a false and much lower CO2 figure attributable to evs. To compounfd this heat pumps are being pushed by governments making it even harder to reduce CO2 emissions. I personally believe that they will increase with evs and heat pumps as electrcicty is very convenient and easy to use but is not an efficient source of power. Generally burning fuel at the point of use is better.

fansome
Reply to  Iain Reid
October 29, 2023 5:59 am

Better name for battery vehicles is Emission Elsewhere Vehicles.

MarkW
Reply to  fansome
October 29, 2023 8:00 am

I call them Zero Emissions Here vehicles.

Reply to  MarkW
October 30, 2023 11:52 am

or Displaced Emission Vehicles

rhs
Reply to  Iain Reid
October 29, 2023 9:01 am

I wonder if Thailand still considers Tesla’s to be a high pollution vehicle since nearly all their electricity is coal generated.
This chuckle may be out dated because I don’t have the ambition to research right now. However, at one point in the not to distant past, I know this was true.

ferdberple
October 29, 2023 1:29 am

All vehicles including EVs throw a dust cloud made up of tire, road and dirt particles into the air where they get breathed in by everyone living near roads. These include the deadly PM2.5 particles. EVs only make this worse. Ideally every car needs to vacuum the road it drives on.

Reply to  ferdberple
October 29, 2023 3:37 am

Oh, don’t let the greens here about this idea- or they’ll demand putting vaccum cleaners on every car, EV or not. 🙂

MarkW
Reply to  ferdberple
October 29, 2023 8:01 am

There is no scientific evidence that PM2.5 is harmful, much less deadly.

ferdberple
October 29, 2023 1:34 am

EV car sales are slow in the US. Probably some re-election donor owns a car lot and see the mayor and council as a solution to high EV inventories.

October 29, 2023 3:18 am

“The city fleet has 30,000 vehicles.”

I bet many of those vehicles aren’t necessary- and many are probably bigger than really needed. I’ve seen videos of government vehicles in Europe. Many are extremely small- some are 3 wheeled. In the city, many of the bureaucrats (burros) could take the bus or subway. Here in Wokeachusetts I often see the “burros” driving around in big cars and much bigger pickup trucks by themselves.

MarkW
Reply to  Joseph Zorzin
October 29, 2023 8:03 am

Given the size of many streets in older European cities, 3 wheels is a necessity, and the reason has nothing to do with emissions.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
October 29, 2023 8:04 am

I visited Barcelona one time, and many of the streets in the oldest section of town are barely wide enough for two people to walk side by side.

fansome
October 29, 2023 5:53 am

These so-called zero-emission vehicles are better called emission elsewhere vehicles. Instead of burning gasoline or diesel by the vehicle, battery vehicles use electricity generated at coal- and gas-fired power plants. Then the power must be transmitted via the power grid and the recharging statio to the EEV. It’s a push for which would emit more CO2. Since EEVs are more costly and less capable, gas and diesel cars are the preferred vehicles for almost everyone.

Beta Blocker
October 29, 2023 7:51 am

Roger, an article is needed concerning the topic of what efforts will be made by advocates for the quick closure of NYC’s load pocket peaker plants when the environmental permits for these plants come up for review.

I’m assuming that each permit renewal application will require a public comment period and possibly a public hearing.

Is there a published schedule for the dates when the air emission permits for these NYC peaker plants will come up for review? Are the scheduled dates for any of these permit renewals close on the horizon?

rogercaiazza
Reply to  Beta Blocker
October 29, 2023 8:34 am

I agree that is a huge problem. The advocates have drawn a line in the sand and the State is coming out with guidance that mandates public review of all the permits with hearings. However, the NY independent system operator has also been very vocal about the need for these peaker plants.

I am not aware of a summary of the status of the permit timing. It is going to be interesting when these incompatible positions collide. I am very glad that I won’t be involved in the permitting process.

Beta Blocker
Reply to  rogercaiazza
October 29, 2023 11:44 am

Here is a list of NYC load pocket peaker plants taken from this document: PSE Healthy Energy, June 2020, New York State Peaker Power Plants

Hell Gate; Harlem River Yard; Astoria Gas Turbines; Astoria Generating Station (steam); Astoria Generating Station (gas); Joseph J. Seymour Power Project; Gowanus Gas Turbines Station; North 1st (Kent); Narrows Generating Station; Hudson Avenue; Pouch Terminal; Jamaica Bay; 74th Street; Ravenswood (gas); Arthur Kill (gas); Arthur Kill (steam); Plant No 1 Freeport; 59th Street; Vernon Boulevard; Shoemaker; Edgewood Energy; Plant No 2 Freeport; Equus Freeport Power; Brentwood; Charles P Keller; West Babylon; Bowline Point; Oswego Harbor Power; Glenwood; Holtsville; Glenwood Landing; E.F. Barrett (gas); Danskammer; Roseton Generating Facility; Port Jefferson (steam); Port Jefferson (gas); West Coxsackie; SA Carlson (steam); Hillburn; Southampton; Southold; Hawkeye Energy Greenport; Greenport; Wading River;Shoreham Energy;Shoreham; East Hampton (gas); East Hampton (internal combustion); South Cairo; Northport (gas).

The PSE Health report from June 2020 notes that between 2023 and 2025, New York State will be imposing tighter nitrous oxide emission limits on these peaker plants. 

The air emission permit renewal period for most of these plants is five years. But I don’t see a permit renewal schedule on the DEC web site. One would have to look at each individual permit to see what its expiration date is.

I took a quick look at a few of the legacy DEC permits for these peaker plants, as posted on the DEC’s web site.

This is just my opinion, but I don’t see how any of these peaker plants can remain open under the ever-rising regulatory pressure from a combination of tighter New York nitrous oxide standards, regulatory review process revisions made in response to the 2019 New York climate act, and the EPA’s new 2023 CAA Section 111 carbon emission rule.

The same thing can probably be said about all the other gas-fired power plants inside New York State, not just the peakers, as their air emission permits expire and must be renewed.

rogercaiazza
Reply to  Beta Blocker
October 30, 2023 7:33 am

On my list of articles to do is an update on the peaker plants. The advocates are determined to shut them down but the NYISO is determined to keep them around. This is a big deal.

In the meantime here is a background link: https://reformingtheenergyvisioninconvenienttruths.com/new-yorks-reforming-the-energy-vision-background-material/peaker-power-plant-considerations/

October 29, 2023 8:01 am

I hope they have a good Fire Dept

October 29, 2023 9:38 am

Regarding electric fire trucks, looks like we’ll find out their practicality soon enough – LA already has one
https://electrek.co/2022/05/17/electric-fire-truck-deployed-us-lafd/

and Boulder has ordered one
https://bouldercolorado.gov/news/boulder-buys-first-electric-fire-engine

Personally, I wouldn’t want anything to do with one of these. At least these municipalities have a LOT of other backup vehicles for when it fails.

starzmom
Reply to  Tony_G
October 29, 2023 3:51 pm

Thank you for reminding me not to go to either place.

Reply to  Tony_G
October 29, 2023 7:14 pm

They are confused. The purpose of a “fire truck” is to put out fires, not add fuel to them.

Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
October 29, 2023 7:17 pm

Interesting question: would an electric fire truck be able to pump enough water to put out a fire in its own battery, or would you need a second electric fire truck standing by in case the first one caught fire?

Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
October 30, 2023 11:58 am

Lol. That’s like a Tesla towing a diesel generator, just in case.
From what I have read, the water is to prevent the fire from spreading to adjacent flammable objects. Water will not stop a Li battery fire.

Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
October 30, 2023 1:33 pm

would an electric fire truck be able to pump enough water to put out a fire in its own battery

Even if its battery continued to work while burning, no. I think the volume of water needed to control a fire like that would require 2 trucks

Jamaica NYC
October 29, 2023 3:45 pm

Would Discharging a pumper truck during a fire set the battery on fire?

November 2, 2023 8:56 pm

The last thing in the world you want to have happen is for a pumper truck to lose power when fighting a fire.”

Oh yes, a fire truck rapidly drawing down it’s battery as it sits near a serious fire. Talk about burning up a fire engine.