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Climate Disaster Study: Gulf Stream Could Collapse as Early as 2025

Essay by Eric Worrall

All bad weather is our fault…

Gulf stream could collapse as early as 2025, study suggests

A collapse would bring catastrophic climate impacts but scientists disagree over the new analysis

Damian CarringtonEnvironment editor
@dpcarringtonWed 26 Jul 2023 01.00 AEST

The Gulf Stream system could collapse as soon as 2025, a new study suggests. The shutting down of the vital ocean currents, called the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (Amoc) by scientists, would bring catastrophic climate impacts.

Amoc was already known to be at its weakest in 1,600 years owing to global heating and researchers spotted warning signs of a tipping point in 2021.

The new analysis estimates a timescale for the collapse of between 2025 and 2095, with a central estimate of 2050, if global carbon emissions are not reduced. Evidence from past collapses indicate changes of temperature of 10C in a few decades, although these occurred during ice ages.

“I think we should be very worried,” said Prof Peter Ditlevsen, at the University of Copenhagen in Denmark, and who led the new study. “This would be a very, very large change. The Amoc has not been shut off for 12,000 years.”

Read more: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jul/25/gulf-stream-could-collapse-as-early-as-2025-study-suggests

The abstract of the study;

Warning of a forthcoming collapse of the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation

Peter Ditlevsen & Susanne Ditlevsen 

Nature Communications volume 14, Article number: 4254 (2023) Cite this article

Abstract

The Atlantic meridional overturning circulation (AMOC) is a major tipping element in the climate system and a future collapse would have severe impacts on the climate in the North Atlantic region. In recent years weakening in circulation has been reported, but assessments by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), based on the Climate Model Intercomparison Project (CMIP) model simulations suggest that a full collapse is unlikely within the 21st century. Tipping to an undesired state in the climate is, however, a growing concern with increasing greenhouse gas concentrations. Predictions based on observations rely on detecting early-warning signals, primarily an increase in variance (loss of resilience) and increased autocorrelation (critical slowing down), which have recently been reported for the AMOC. Here we provide statistical significance and data-driven estimators for the time of tipping. We estimate a collapse of the AMOC to occur around mid-century under the current scenario of future emissions.

Read more: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-39810-w

If the AMOC collapse occurred it would likely be really bad, temperatures in Europe and North America could plunge, and Europe and North America would likely experience ice age like conditions which could last hundreds, or even thousands of years.

An AMOC collapse is believed to have caused the Younger Dryas, an abrupt return to Northern Hemisphere ice age conditions which occurred 12,900 years ago, which lasted over a thousand years.

But AMOC collapse is a bit like end of snow predictions or ice free Arctic predictions. Climate models predict an Atlantic meridional overturning circulation collapse, so it must happen, right? I mean, we’d never expect climate scientists to perhaps mistake a natural cycle for a dramatic one way shift?

The scientists in the body of the study above admit continuous monitoring of the AMOC only started in 2004, which seems a pretty short baseline to make long term forecasts. But there have been other attempts to reconstruct the recent history of the AMOC, which have produced far less conclusive results.

The evolution of the North Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation since 1980

March 2022

Nature Reviews Earth & Environment 3(4)

DOI:10.1038/s43017-022-00263-2

Authors: , Laura Jackson, Arne Biastoch, Martha W. Buckley, Damien Desbruyères, Eleanor Frajka-Williams, Ben I. Moat, Jon Robson

Abstract

The Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) is a key component of the climate through its transport of heat in the North Atlantic Ocean. Decadal changes in the AMOC, whether through internal variability or anthropogenically forced weakening, therefore have wide-ranging impacts. In this Review, we synthesize the understanding of contemporary decadal variability in the AMOC, bringing together evidence from observations, ocean reanalyses, forced models and AMOC proxies. Since 1980, there is evidence for periods of strengthening and weakening, although the magnitudes of change (5–25%) are uncertain. In the subpolar North Atlantic, the AMOC strengthened until the mid-1990s and then weakened until the early 2010s, with some evidence of a strengthening thereafter; these changes are probably linked to buoyancy forcing related to the North Atlantic Oscillation. In the subtropics, there is some evidence of the AMOC strengthening from 2001 to 2005 and strong evidence of a weakening from 2005 to 2014. Such large interannual and decadal variability complicates the detection of ongoing long-term trends, but does not preclude a weakening associated with anthropogenic warming. Research priorities include developing robust and sustainable solutions for the long-term monitoring of the AMOC, observation–modelling collaborations to improve the representation of processes in the North Atlantic and better ways to distinguish anthropogenic weakening from internal variability. The Atlantic Meridional Overturning Circulation (AMOC) has a key role in the climate system. This Review documents AMOC variability since 1980, revealing periods of decadal-scale weakening and strengthening that differ between the subpolar and subtropical regions.

Read more: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358935843_The_evolution_of_the_North_Atlantic_Meridional_Overturning_Circulation_since_1980

One thing which is missing from today’s forecasts of imminent AMOC collapse is a large body of fresh water which could be the potential trigger for the collapse. The Younger Dryas collapse in Northern Hemisphere temperatures was believed to have been caused by disruption to ocean currents which occurred when a gigantic glacial lake sitting on the North American and Canadian ice sheet abruptly discharged thousands of cubic miles of water into the Atlantic Ocean, though there is evidence a lot of fresh water may have ended up in the Arctic Ocean.

Identification of Younger Dryas outburst flood path from Lake Agassiz to the Arctic Ocean

Julian B. MurtonMark D. BatemanScott R. DallimoreJames T. Teller & Zhirong Yang 

Nature volume 464, pages 740–743 (2010)Cite this article

Abstract

The melting Laurentide Ice Sheet discharged thousands of cubic kilometres of fresh water each year into surrounding oceans, at times suppressing the Atlantic meridional overturning circulation and triggering abrupt climate change1,2,3,4. Understanding the physical mechanisms leading to events such as the Younger Dryas cold interval requires identification of the paths and timing of the freshwater discharges. Although Broecker et al. hypothesized in 1989 that an outburst from glacial Lake Agassiz triggered the Younger Dryas 1, specific evidence has so far proved elusive, leading Broecker to conclude in 2006 that “our inability to identify the path taken by the flood is disconcerting”2. Here we identify the missing flood path—evident from gravels and a regional erosion surface—running through the Mackenzie River system in the Canadian Arctic Coastal Plain. Our modelling of the isostatically adjusted surface in the upstream Fort McMurray region, and a slight revision of the ice margin at this time, allows Lake Agassiz to spill into the Mackenzie drainage basin. From optically stimulated luminescence dating we have determined the approximate age of this Mackenzie River flood into the Arctic Ocean to be shortly after 13,000 years ago, near the start of the Younger Dryas. We attribute to this flood a boulder terrace near Fort McMurray with calibrated radiocarbon dates of over 11,500 years ago. A large flood into the Arctic Ocean at the start of the Younger Dryas leads us to reject the widespread view that Agassiz overflow at this time was solely eastward into the North Atlantic Ocean.

Read more: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature08954

If say the Greenland Ice Sheet were to form a gigantic glacial lake comparable to Lake Agassiz, that would be a major cause for concern. Such a lake could potentially deliver a devastating impulse of fresh water to the far North, potentially triggering a replay of the environmental catastrophe which some believe caused the Younger Dryas mini ice age.

But to my knowledge, no similar glacial lake exists in today’s world.

In the absence of a credible source of a fresh water impulse on the scale of Lake Agassiz, the lack of clear understanding of exactly what happened 12,900 years ago, short evidential baselines, and the absence of firm observational evidence of a looming AMOC collapse, lets say I’m not about to lose sleep over claims we are approaching an imminent major climate tipping point.


For more information on climate uncertainties and risks, click here.

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July 26, 2023 8:51 am

The ice age is coming, the sun’s zooming in
Engines stop running, the wheat is growing thin
A nuclear era, but I have no fear
‘Cause London is drowning
I, I live by the river

July 26, 2023 9:29 am

I somewhat understand how the AMOC could have collapsed during a cooling period (aided by the sudden influx of cold freshwater) to cause the severe global cooling of the Younger Dryas.

How could the AMOC collapse during a warming phase of the planet? As the equatorial waters warm, they expand. That expansion has to go somewhere. If it doesn’t move north-south (meridional flow), then where the heck does the water expansion go?

In an open system, it has to go somewhere! It cannot just continue to move around the equator without eventually forcing a meridional flow to relieve the expansion.

Reply to  pillageidiot
July 26, 2023 12:43 pm

It floods Miami.

MarkW
Reply to  pillageidiot
July 26, 2023 1:09 pm

To the extent that the oceans expand, they will be expanding all over the planet.
Beyond that, even if the expansion was only occurring in the tropics, it would only be an inch or two per century. The total amount of water that was moving out of the tropics on a day to day basis, compared to the mass of the oceans, is so small it couldn’t possibly have much affect on anything.

One other thing, the claims of a collapse of the AMOC occurred while the Earth was warming up put of the last glacial phase. To get a pulse of freshwater large enough to influence the AMOC requires many years of glacial meltwater being trapped behind an ice dam. Ice dam collapses releasing all that fresh water at once.

MarkW
July 26, 2023 9:45 am

According to Hillary, it’s only the fault of MAGA Republicans.

Reply to  MarkW
July 26, 2023 3:06 pm

If weather was up to Republicans, it would be raining on Hillary all the time.

We might still be able to get Hillary involved in the upcoming investigations of the Democrats using the federal government to attack political opponents. Hillary is neck deep in this conspiracy.

There may be some statute of limitations restrictions involved with Hillary, but a good accounting of Hillary’s criminality and corruption would be instructive for the nation and is information they need to have. American should know all about the people who are trying to undermine the U.S. Constituton while publicly accusing the Republicans of doing so, which is a typical radical Democrat tactic of accusing your opponents of the corruption you are committing.

What about those 30,000 emails you illegally deleted Hillary? Maybe we can get you up to Congress to testify about such things one of these days. Wouldn’t you hate it if Trump was elected president in 2024, and the Republicans gained the majority in both the House and the Senate? You might be in some trouble if that were to happen. You and all the other criminals associated with you including Barack Obama and Joe Biden and all their henchmen. Criminals all. Underminers of the U.S. Constitution all. All of them should go to jail, in a rational world.

CampsieFellow
July 26, 2023 9:49 am

I just wish I could live till 2050 but by then I would be 103 so that’s not very likely.

Story tip

Bryan A
Reply to  CampsieFellow
July 26, 2023 10:15 am

Brilliant find

Mr.
Reply to  CampsieFellow
July 26, 2023 11:49 am

I just wish I could live till 2050 but by then I would be 103 

So when were you born?

(asking on behalf of most of those TikTok and Instagram “influencers”)

Bryan A
Reply to  Mr.
July 26, 2023 4:22 pm

Looks like that would be 1947…one of the original Baby Boomers

Richard Page
Reply to  CampsieFellow
July 26, 2023 4:04 pm

I hate to burst a bubble here but it actually makes four over a slightly longer timescale – Sincerity Ace (2019), Felicity Ace (2022), Olympia Euroferry (2022) and now this one.

ResourceGuy
July 26, 2023 10:16 am

Yes, ocean current collapse is part of the climate liturgical calendar of fear mongering while filling a box for promotion.

Rod Evans
July 26, 2023 10:32 am

So far today, we have been told we are all going to suffer a new pandemic dengue fever, that will require the WHO to tell us all what to do. We are so grateful for their determination to tell us all what to do…. We have been told there are wild fires everywhere all caused by man made climate change of course, we must avoid going on holiday in case we have to be rescued from the fires. We are told the hurricane season will be terrible as the new El Nino starts to take effect and of course the gulf stream is going to stop and the next ice age in Europe is imminent. It will last a thousand years of course. On the plus side I expect the fear of global warming will be put on the back burner during that thousand years of ice covered Europe and North America.
The grain supply from the Black sea region is now stopped, it is so terrible everyone in the Middle East is going to starve. That crisis is not blamed on man made climate change thankfully it is probably blamed on fossil fuel funded war though so that will keep the Just Stop Oil team busy.
Things are clearly going from bad to worse. I think I will have to check if my bank account is still operational, you can never tell these days, we are all at risk of being ‘Exited’ ….apparently.
On the plus side tomorrow looks far less apocryphal. 🙂

July 26, 2023 10:40 am

Well, I’m confused. Being just a climate illiterate engineer, it escapes me how global warming causes the gulf stream to get colder. Magic process this. Causes warts, moles, colds, sore assholes, and makes childbirth a misery, along with ice ages.

MarkW
Reply to  slowroll
July 26, 2023 1:15 pm

The claim is not that the Gulf Stream will get colder, the claim is that it will slow, or stop altogether. Since the Gulf Stream carries heat from more tropical climes (Gulf of Mexico and the Caribbean) up to Europe, a loss of this heat will cause the climate of Europe to get colder.

The claim is that fresh water melting off the Greenland glaciers will interrupt the Gulf Stream.

Reply to  MarkW
July 26, 2023 8:17 pm

will cause the climate of Europe to get colder.”

Which they have figured out will be happening soon anyway !

This is just a prelude to blaming the cooling on warming.

Neo
July 26, 2023 10:58 am

Climate Change COULD cause everybody to have a case of hemorrhoids.
COULD .. COULD .. COULD .. PERHAPS .. POSSIBLE
The alternate COULD cause a bad case of the shingles.

Williamw247
July 26, 2023 11:18 am

The hype over this research is ridiculous. Freshwater from Greenland ice melt is going to cause the AMOC to collapse! The sky is falling! The sky is falling!

Reply to  Williamw247
July 26, 2023 9:31 pm

Basically everything in the “climate” area is massive load of HYPE !

July 26, 2023 11:25 am

If warming is so rampant that it stops the AMOC that warms northern Europe, then they wont even need the AMOC. Spain’s weather will creep up to Scotland. Is logic becoming a lost art?

Here’s how to gauge the limit to the researcher’s logical thought capability. They fear a crises warming causing the collapse of the Gulf stream. And what happened the previous times the Gulf Stream collapsed? :

“Evidence from past collapses indicate changes of temperature of 10C in a few decades, although these occurred during ice ages (sic- they are referring to glacial maxima!). Why would a reasoning person, who is hyping Crisis Anthropo Global Warming, harken back to the depths of Glacial maxima for examples of what would happen? There is a lot of whimsy in lefty-Democrat science.

July 26, 2023 11:26 am

Aside from the dates changing, have there been any really “new” scares?
It seems we’ve heard all this before.

July 26, 2023 11:32 am

Maybe if a collapse (change to lower state) is possible, and eminent (projected at 2050), then we should not be removing kinetic energy (flattening the curve) from the system.

(This logic follows their logic, and starts with the same premise … there is no such thing as silly.)

July 26, 2023 12:24 pm

“The new analysis estimates a timescale for the collapse of between 2025 and 2095, with a central estimate of 2050, if global carbon emissions are not reduced.” How convenient – 2050 shows up yet again. And we’d best stop those carbon [sic] emissions.

July 26, 2023 12:39 pm

Utter nonsense. This is just one more example of non-academic predictions of the future based on a preconceived idea that the future must be awful because people are far too successful. There is no reliable evidence of a problem with the AMOC presently. It is just a theoretical interpretation of a small number of data points in such a way as to conform to the Armageddon thinking of the CAWG propagandists. None of them deserve the label of academics because this is not science. And as far as taking any predictions of future climate behaviour from this crowd seriously, you might as well consult the astrology section of your local paper. They have proven totally incompetent at predicting any important future components of the climate system other than just a continuation of present mild trends.

July 26, 2023 1:00 pm

Wildly off topic but relevant and mildly amusing….
(It does concern ‘ a disaster’ and has to do with ‘climate’)

Quote”A Dutch coastguard spokesman said the fire was probably caused by one of 25 electric vehicles on board the ship.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66310280

and btw: the ‘ship’ he’s talking about is a real floaty-on-the-water one and has 3,000 cars aboard.
hence: ‘disaster’

starzmom
Reply to  Peta of Newark
July 26, 2023 4:38 pm

I looked to see if that was the case, and could not find any details. So I am not surprised that electric vehicles were on that ship. Hehe.

Duane
July 26, 2023 1:20 pm

Any prediction with starts with “the models say the world is about to end” can immediately be dismissed as utter bullshit. No credible actual scientist would attempt to make massive apocalyptic predictions of the sort they crapped out of their behinds in this report on the basis only of a model, with no other real world calibration to prove that the model is capable of predicting anything but project the biases of the modelers. Meaning the warmunists are unserious scientists, or political scientists, or both.

Alfred T Mahan
July 26, 2023 2:02 pm

Some time in the next ten years or so I shall no longer be able to climb on the roof to wave my arms to keep the elephants away from where I live in southern England, either. A terrible fate awaits the village. My spreadsheet model tells me there’s a 90% chance of it being overrun by trumpeting rogue males within weeks.

That, logically, is no more and no less scientific than the paper this article is about.

Edward Katz
July 26, 2023 2:24 pm

Maybe I’ve missed something here, but I thought the real climate problem we’re facing relates to excessive warming. Now the experts or alarmists are telling us we could be facing a new Ice Age. So what’s it going to be, or are these people really admitting that they don’t really know, as everyone really suspects.

Reply to  Edward Katz
July 26, 2023 5:34 pm

I think what they’re saying is that if we start seeing the globe cool down, this is yet more evidence that global warming is real.
Makes complete sense to me.

July 26, 2023 3:00 pm

dansgaard oeschger events anyone?

Writing Observer
July 26, 2023 6:36 pm

I see that this disaster scenario is back up in the rotation. I’m trying to remember what comes after it. Probably need to do some research on WUWT, it was about ten years or so ago.

observa
July 26, 2023 6:47 pm

I need an urgent grant to head up a team to investigate the array of wind powered underwater turbines required to run the AMOC when it collapses. There’s no time to lose and international money is no object.

Walter Sobchak
July 26, 2023 6:52 pm

What drives the large scale current structure of the major ocean basins is 1. the temperature difference between the tropics where water warms, expands, and starts to flow towards the poles where it contracts and sinks, and to the coriolis which is the effect of the earths constatnt counterclockwise (when viewed looking down at the north pole) rotation.

For the currents to collapse requires two things: 1. the arctic has to be the same temperature as the tropics, which is quite unlikely so long as the earths axis continues to be inclined to the ecliptic, and 2. the earth needs to stop spinning, which also seems to be unlikely.

Reply to  Walter Sobchak
July 27, 2023 1:13 am

I’m sure that I’ve read that the earth has started spinning more quickly in recent times. You may or may not be surprised to hear that some experts think it might be due to the “climate crisis!”.

observa
July 26, 2023 8:54 pm

…and don’t for one moment think you can take the plant food out of the atmosphere to fix the dooming as that’s when things get a little wacky-
Why sucking CO2 out of the atmosphere can’t undo all the effects of climate change (msn.com)
No sirreee sir nut zero it has to be.

July 26, 2023 9:01 pm

The arrogance here is astonishing. They study something for a few years that no one noticed before, that’s been happening for thousands or millions of years, and they know with certainty that what’s happening now is “unprecedented” despite no data from the past. Their data points cover a minuscule fraction of the history of the phenomenon but they are inflated with virtuous certainty that they know what’s going to happen soon, and that it ain’t gonna be good. They aren’t scientists so much as self-appointed prophets of doom warning the sinful citizenry of the world to repent of their fossil fuel gluttony. Thank you for the info. We’ll, uh, ponder that for awhile.

July 26, 2023 10:53 pm

Same as back in the 60s, then, this oldie recalls….

The old ones are the best ones, eh?

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