Essay by Eric Worrall
h/t CampsieFellow, Geoff Buys Cars; Volkswagen is scaling back electric vehicle production, laying off contractors, but internal combustion vehicle production remains unchanged.
Volkswagen scales back EV production
ByAutomotive Daily
June 28, 2023…
Among the models affected are the ID 4 SUV and early production of the ID 7 saloon. Details of the shortening of shifts were provided by Manfred Wulff, head of the works council for the Emden plant, in response to an inquiry from the German Press Agency and an earlier article published by the North West newspaper.
While the production of combustion-engine models, including the Volkswagen Passat, continues unchanged, the factory holidays for electric vehicle line workers have been extended by one week.
…
Wulff indicates demand for electric vehicles is up to 30% below originally planned production figures.
“We are experiencing strong customer reluctance in the electric vehicle sector,” he told the North West newspaper.
Wulff said production of the ID 7 saloon had originally been planned to start in July but has now been delayed to “later this year”.
In a statement, a spokesperson for the Volkswagen Emden plant said: “We are confident that the plant’s utilisation will increase again with the launch of the ID 7 at the end of the year.
…
Read more: https://www.autodaily.com.au/volkswagen-scales-back-ev-production/
An interesting video opinion piece on the issues with EVs;
Volkswagen says they expect EV production to pick up – presumably in anticipation of another round of European Union anti-consumer choice laws, to try to force more sales of EVs.
EVs are and for the foreseeable future will remain a rich persons’ toy.
I recently completed a driving holiday to the snow, via Western New South Wales. The roads were so bad even my 4WD couldn’t take them at full speed, especially Golden Highway and Newell Highway. In addition, there aren’t a lot of places to refuel between Goondiwindi and Dubbo – my long range 4WD was starting to look thirsty by the end of that leg of my holiday.
Even around Canberra, our nation’s capital, the roads were a disgrace in some places.
One leg of the driving holiday lasted 8 hours, across rough roads and mountainous terrain. Another drive I spent most of the day driving into a fierce headwind.
Despite all the hype, the fact remains that for any kind of serious driving on a reasonable timescale, you will need an internal combustion engine vehicle for the foreseeable future.
Some of the roads I drove on my holiday (video is from a few months ago);
Push harder on that string.
Most of the people who can afford an EV have already bought one….
For that open slot in their 5-car garage.
My guess is that the EV will top out at about 10% of the vehicle fleet, due to consumer resistance. Anyone want to go over/under?
Get rid of the subsidies, incentives and mandates, and it’s 2% tops.
Good ole Mark. Subsidies are the devils work… except when they are for the stuff he worships.i.e oil.
Oil companies don’t receive subsidies from sources outside of their own operations. They receive the same tax forgiveness measures as every other business. They only are allowed to retain more of the income they themselves have produced. Solar and Wind received actual subsidies where others provide the money, not their own operations. You leftists are really very blunt instruments.
“Oil companies don’t receive subsidies “
Yawn….
” They receive the same tax forgiveness measures as every other business. ”
BS… Read.
https://e360.yale.edu/digest/fossil-fuels-received-5-9-trillion-in-subsidies-in-2020-report-finds
“Explicit subsidies accounted for only 8 percent of the total. The remaining 92 percent were implicit subsidies, which took the form of tax breaks or, to a much larger degree, health and environmental damages that were not priced into the cost of fossil fuels, according to the analysis.”
Now calculate the massive amounts of “implicit subsidies” that wind and solar power recieve and then we can do a comparison.
“Now calculate the massive amounts of “implicit subsidies” that wind and solar power recieve and then we can do a comparison.”
Why should I, I am not the one bleating about subsidies. Ask the olympic level hypocrite MarkW.
For the record I have no issue with subsidies.
“For the record I have no issue with subsidies.”
That’s because you KNOW that wind and solar would never exist without them. !
If anyone is a hypocrite around here , it is you.
Your whole existence depends on fossil fuels, you are just too “unaware” to realise it.
Not my whole existence, but I acknowledge we can’t just dump them….
Why not?
Because we are heavily dependent on them. Needs to be a transition and that will take time. Maybe we will never totally free ourselves of them, but (if the science is right and it is looking increasingly so) the less we burn the better.
Circular argument.
I asked WHY can’t we dump renewables (i.e. why are they necessary) and your response is “because we need them”.
We need renewables because they are good for us like spinach.
Simon again confirms he is not a serious poster and runs away from justifying his meaning less comments.
No. It will never happen.
Transition?! LMAO – TO WHAT?!!!
The only thing to “transition” from mineral energies to is called THE STONE AGE.
Run Away…………
https://youtu.be/w83LZ1g0BeQ
“Setting the price of coal, oil, gas to reflect their true cost — say, with a carbon tax”
This one sentence shows that this is written by a hugely biased, non-economic climate activist
CO2 is NOT a cost.. it is a benefit.
It is the consumer that is being subsidised by cheaper prices.
With wind and solar, it is the consumer that ends up getting slugged.
Coal, Oil.. they GIVE hugely to society
Wind and solar.. just take, take, take.
You are still ignorant of what a subsidy actually is, aren’t you !
“This one sentence shows that this is written by a hugely biased, non-economic climate activist”
Lucky you saw it here then coz no one here fits that description…. oh wait.
“health and environmental damages”
Care to show examples?
Take the RATP (Paris metro).
Subsidies for wind and solar, apart from the MASSIVE upfront scamming and trough-feeding,
… should include the MASSIVE environmental damages during manufacturing, installation and final short-life removal… that are not priced into the cost.
Wouldn’t you agree!
It’s true that every form of energy comes with a cost
And Fossil Fuels come with the highest amount of energy density ounce for ounce … so … The lowest cost and lowest impact with the greatest benefit for society.
Benefits in the form of…
Energy available on demand
Ease of storage
Ease of transport
Works well for…
…Air Travel
…Rail Travel
…Ocean Travel
…Road Travel
…Goods Transportation
Quick to refill when needed (minutes not hours)
Increased atmospheric fertilization
Greening biosphere
Not subject to the whims of weather or time of day
You forgot heats up the planet….. But then you would coz it’s not convenient.
Oops, good point…
Added benefit of CO2…
It warms the planet so it’s not too cold to grow crops in most places.
Beats being cold and unable to grow crops to feed the world of 8B
Thanks for the heads up Simon 😘
Optimums are terrific times on Earth for all life, except foolish alarmists who falsely believe an Optimum will destroy alarmist absurdities.
And the empirical evidence for this is where? Nonexistent. “Hypothetical bullshit” and computer models don’t count.
oil works!
Does that include the possibility that states will impose a milage tax on them for road use?
There is also consumer resistance for private jets, penthouse apartments, gold plated chandeliers, yachts- and for the same obvious reason. 🙂
And some of us (no, I am not a “manly” woman — I just like to drive fast) refuse to buy EV’s for THIS reason:
And, no, I do not care if you post an ad for an EV with someone doing the same thing.
#1 THAT kind of EV is, as Mr. Zorzin said, too high priced for mass production.
#2 I could drive and drive and drive my Camaro for HUNDREDS of miles and not have to stop at a gas station.
#3 When I DO stop to fuel up — it only takes about 4 minutes.
#4 I won’t have to trash my entire vehicle in less than 10 years because it has an essentially non-replaceable battery.
#5 When I trade my car in, it will have SOME trade-in value.
BOTTOM LINE: ICE vehicles = FREEDOM.
#1 THAT kind of EV is, as Mr. Zorzin said, too high priced for mass production. Coming down though Janice. Look up the latest BYD cars. https://zecar.com/reviews/2023-byd-dolphin-price-and-specs
#2 I could drive and drive and drive my Camaro for HUNDREDS of miles and not have to stop at a gas station. I drive my Tesla for over 300 miles.
#3 When I DO stop to fuel up — it only takes about 4 minutes. Takes me 30 seconds at home and it charges while I sleep. And I get to sleep more soundly knowing I am saving everyone. 🙂
#4 I won’t have to trash my entire vehicle in less than 10 years because it has an essentially non-replaceable battery. I’m picking my battery will last a lot longer than 10 years, but even if it doesn’t, I think there will be commercially viable replacement batteries by that time.
#5 When I trade my car in, it will have SOME trade-in value. I will never trade in my Tesla I love it toooooo much.
#6 And I will politely add that my EV costs me a fraction of the cost of an ICE car to run and maintain. I can do 100miles for about $2US.
“I can do 100miles for about $2US.”
Only because you are (as with every other current EV driver) parasitically milking the system, courtesy of moronic governments. When big brother starts monitoring every journey you make and road charging by the mile kicks in, your currently subsidised transportation costs will increase.
“When big brother starts monitoring every journey”
Oh dear, tin foil hat time….
The EV industry in China is in dire straits at the moment. Their largest producer Nio is making huge losses, has had to reduce prices in order to shift cars and has cancelled its free 6 battery swap out scheme.
Meanwhile the Chinese Government has had to extend tax breaks for EVs to 2027 at an estimated cost of £56.9bn.
China is the worlds biggest market for EVs with over 26m on the road equivalent to 70% of the global stock of BEVs (IEA) but even they are running out of steam.
Darn. Missed a typo and the edit. Figure should read equivalent to over 50% of the global stock of EVs
Who cares about the Chinese….. Tesla just had its best month ever of sales.
Takes me 30 seconds at home and it charges while I sleep. And I get to sleep more soundly knowing I am saving everyone.
Are you sure about that?
If it takes 30 seconds why does it need to be plugged in OVERNIGHT?
Saving everyone?
Sounds like a Messiah Complex.
Which Tesla do you have?
The 2019 Tesla Model S originally had a starting sticker price of $77,200, ($47,000 today -$30,000 value loss/time) with the range-topping Model S P100D Sedan 4D starting at $134,200 ($58,272 today -$76,000 value loss/time)
If you bought a Tesla S in 2019 you’ve seen depreciation in 5 years equal to $30,000 – $76,000 (enoigh to buy 2 new ICE vehicles)
And the $30,000 ICE saves you $47,000 – $104,000 in initial cost that buys 9,000 – 22,000 gallons of gas. All you would have done is pay for 20 years worth of gas up front
And Janice this is certainly an interesting analysis of a Tesla’s state of health after 200k miles. He’s estimating another 200k before battery replacement.
EV’s are shit, boring as bat guano and they do f!@# all for the environment. Driving an EV is like driving an iPad on wheels. Piece of virtue signaling. Without oil there are no vehicles period..
I saw this plate on an EV the other day — OIL-LOL – I mean how dumb ya gotta be..
“EV’s are shit, boring as bat guano”
Clearly you have never driven or been in a Tesla Model S Plaid.
I have driven one of these, and notwithstanding the engineering that Porsche put into the production of this motorcar..it is IMO boring as bat guano.
If you find that boring, then you are either a knuckle dragging Neanderthal or … well … perhaps you tell me. Perhaps you simply don’t appreciate/understand bleeding edge technology and design.
Think we’ll end it here. You go recharge your battery.
Don’t need to. It goes a long way…..
Tesla reported 466,140 deliveries for the second quarter, and production of 479,700 vehiclesPUBLISHED SUN, JUL 2 202312:13 PM EDTUPDATED 3 HOURS AGO
?v=1497888871&w=60&h=60&ffmt=webp
KEY POINTS
Tesla posted its second-quarter vehicle production and delivery report for 2023 on Sunday.
Here are the key numbers from the electric vehicle maker:
Total deliveries Q2 2023: 466,140
Total production Q2 2023: 479,700
The numbers beat analysts’ expectations and indicate that deliveries rose 83% year-over-year for Tesla after Elon Musk’s auto business added manufacturing capacity, and ramped up production at is vehicle assembly plant in Austin, Texas.
Tesla groups deliveries into two categories but does not report individual model or region-specific numbers.
The second quarter of 2023 marked the fifth period in a row when Tesla reported a higher level of vehicles produced compared to deliveries.
Interesting information. Photo: UNHELPFUL (she really doesn’t look at all as if she knows much about auto/battery tech — at LEAST put her in some black-plastic framed glasses, put a clipboard into her hand, and tell her to put a determined expression on her face — even then, pretty much a pointless photo).
She may be a happy investor in Tesla shares, grinning from ear to ear, while the traditional car makers, sniping at Tesla, are gnashing their teeth.
No clipboard is required
“She may be a happy investor in Tesla shares…”
I know I am…..
I am so delighted to provide joy to you rich kids. Recently sold a used Corolla for $3500 to someone who really needed a cheap car for his student kid. The student would have maybe chosen an EV, except no way to put charger outside dorm, other issues- oh, and not a rich kid with rich dad. Where can they find an EV for $3500?? Haven’t you investor class folks any consideration?
You should have invested in Tesla stocks
You would be a multi-millionaire
You would need no scholarships
You would just write a check for a new car for your “kid”
I came to this country as poor as a church mouse.
I immediately saw, you cannot get rich by working hard, so I paid for my education with part-time jobs, and saved and invested for 50 years.
I never whined, always saved and invested
Good for you. Paul seems to be jealous of people who have been smart with, and made, money.
OMG up another 7% today.
Tesla lives on the government (read: taxpayer) teat, as do its “investors.”
Once the government taxpayer largesse stops flowing, the whole Ponzi scheme will collapse.
Not going to guess a percentage, but earlier this year, Paul Philpott, Chief exec of Kia Motors in the UK told the Times newspaper (Jan 23 2023)
“A mass market in affordable electric cars will not happen because of the difficulty of providing them on a viable basis”
He added that Kia had no immediate plans for a mass market vehicle
The worse the roads are, the better an EV is to drive them.
The worst use case for an EV is an 85mph cruise on a beautiful road because energy consumption increases with speed. Charging frequency increases with speed.
You might have to stop every 2-3 hours for a charge at 85 mph. The same car at 40 mph can go 6-8 hours because it is more efficient at lower speeds and lower speeds take longer to cover the same distance.
If the EV is heavier then it will suffer more component stress even at slower speeds. So will the road. All of this increases the maintenance costs for EV’s as compared to ICE vehicles, especially on bad roads. If the EV is made lighter then it decreases the safety margin during accidents unless *expensive* body components (e.g. titanium) are used – which increases the capital investment at purchase time.
They will make the battery smaller. Limiting travel is a goal.
“The worse the roads are, the better an EV is to drive them.”
Could it possibly that the heavier, Lithium batteried EV, added to the lack of road maintenance, is making your roads even worse. Here in the UK this has been anecdotally the case for some time but now this tends to confirm it, one of many reports of THE report:
EVs cause twice the road damage of petrol vehicles, study reveals
I cannot see that the effect of heavier vehicles on poor roads is somehow ameliorated because it is an EV?
See my comment below. 😎
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2023/07/02/volkswagen-strong-customer-reluctance-in-the-electric-vehicle-sector/#comment-3742691
How is it that even those facilities involved in road maintenance have been captured by the EV enthusiasts? It seems that in Australia, the UK, and even here in New Zealand, the state of roads has deteriorated to the point where normal travel in normal vehicles has become inadvisable!
We were in Edinburgh last week. Some of the roads there – on bus routes – are dreadful: huge potholes; areas of missing tarmac; uneven cobbles. Unbelievable! It’s like a 3rd world country. Whether or not this is due to EVs is debateable, though I’m starting to think it might well be having seen the number on the streets.
It seems you are advocating driving slowly with an EV, rather than driving on rough roads. If so, I agree, the best speed for an EV seems to be zero.
Exactly. At zero speed an EV can go for thousands of hours.
And still run out of battery power whereas an ICE would still get you 200 miles or more and back on a single “charge”
As long as it’s turned off!
“”The worse the roads are, the better an EV is to drive them.””
That should read “The worse the roads are, the better to show what an EV does to them.”
If you’re claiming that as a positive you have a bright future as a British MP.
Heh. What to you want to bet that he or she IS a British MP?
Are there ANY British MP’s not promoting the solar/wind/EV scam?
Try a 4 hour traffic jam with 35ºC on a asphalt highway. Don’t think you can keep it cool.
Luna asks an EPA official good questions, among them concerning EVs in a hurricane evacuation or in cold weather, Alaska.
Good video. Tried to watch it on Youtube and got this message:
“www.youtube.com is blockedhttp://www.youtube.com refused to connect.”
That is the 2nd time that has happened with a video posted here that is supposed to be available on Youtube. Someone here know what’s up with that?
I’ve had that happen when using a VPN.
I don’t know why, but when the link is clicked with the left mouse button you get this message. If instead you right-click on the link and choose “open link in new tab or window” it works as it should. In windows 10, anyway. Don’t know about other platforms, phones or tablets.
Yes, that’s exactly what happens. The ‘blocked” error message and failure occurs infrequently. Using FF 114.02 64 bit. Seems like a timing problem.
Misdirection/non sequitur alert:
When asked about input from “common folk” re EPA regulations forcing a move to EVs he deflected by saying the #1 concern is reducing POLLUTION in their community.
To which the redirect should have been, “The ‘pollution’ issues were dealt with decades ago, outdoor air is less polluted than the air inside your home. Answer the question.”
All cars are more efficient at lower speeds.
I don’t think so. Perhaps you should try measuring mileage in a city with 20mph limits where you are forced to stay in 2nd gear and compare it with one where you can travel the important distances at 50mph (as I used to in my commute along Memorial Parkway in Houston). City mileage is consistently poor in an ICE.
Back when the “oil crisis fuel saver” 55 mph limit was adopted, I had a Fiat 124 Sport Coup. Its 4 speed gear box came geared for Italian, not American travel. Prior to that time, normal speed on various CA freeways, depending on location, was frequently 90 mph, which the Fiat liked just fine although its took it a bit to reach that speed. Actual normal travel speeds on I5 through Oregon and Washington were also well above the posted limits.
I found out, on some longish trips, such as CA Bay Area to Canada, and Bay Area to La, that its 55 mph mpg was the same as its 85-90 mph mpg because at 55 in 4th it was so low down on the torque curve that it struggled at 55 but sang at 90.
Sorry, Andy, I can’t believe that. Fuel consumption increases with speed because air resistance increases as the square of the speed, needing proportionally more fuel to overcome it.
Yes, modern transmissions with all those gears have definitely helped high speed gas mileage, Car & Driver often gets near EPA estimated “highway” mileage on their 75mph test.
So much for the “need” to putz along at 55!
Depends how you define “efficiency”!
Low speed and stop and go are too different things.
Stop and go is not a strength of electrics, despite the claims of their advocates. Below 10mph, even electrics rely mostly on mechanical brakes.
ICE cars are most fuel efficient in top gear, generally at a speed corresponding to peak torque. So my manual 6l V8 Commodore (Pontiac) is most fuel efficient at about 100km/h
We were told that 62 mph was the speed to gain maximum hwy fuel milage efficiency with a Volvo big truck.
To a point; lower than 85 certainly.
When somebody filed a freedom of information act request for the conditions under which the “estimated range” was calculated, the speed used was THIRTEEN mph.
Ummm, so I can drive for 3 hours at 85 mph or 6 hours at 40 mph? I’m missing the point here. ~240 miles then I charge either way, yes?
You’ll only get 2hrs 20min at 85mph before needing a recharge I think.
Mr. paler: Yup, but you are saving the planet while flipping off those morons in their low-rent ICE cars as they pass your superior a$$.
When you’re sitting at the charging station, even the little old ladies who drive 10mph below the speed limit will be passing you…
In OZ go find a charging station every 2 – 3 hours of driving outside of the big city.
Also driving at 40mph/60km/h is more fatiguing on long distances than at 60+mph/110 kmph.
Try driving 450km at 40 mph and see how you feel.
It is tiring at 110 mph and I do this regular. Stuff the EV.
As for the bad roads the weight of an EV is only going to make the roads surface worse.Add some rain and every pothole will just get bigger.
What EV are you driving?
Mr. rah: He’s driving the very latest model, it’s routine for salesmen.
From experience as a passenger in my son’s Model Three, the ride is much worse than in an ICE vehicle of similar size on anything but the smoothest roads.
But just think of the value of his virtue signaling! You can’t put a price on preening at the Starbucks.
A friend of mine drove his Model 3 Tesla from NY City to Miami, Florida.
It took him 4 days.
The charging was a nightmare, plus he got a lot less range on a charge than he thought he would.
He said never again.
He said, he will keep his Tesla in his winter house, and buy another one for driving around town in NY City.
I drove the same trip with a Subaru, in two days, about 20 years ago
vboring: your logic cannot be faulted but who wants to drive everywhere at 40 mph? It would take so long to get anywhere that it wouldn’t be worth going. You’s have to set off on the return journey before you even got there!
Plus you’ll be in everybody else’s way!
It’s a pity he didn’t look at how much battery life or capacity was left after 2 years. I’m guessing the petrol tank was unchanged.
You could simulate this in an IC vehicle by addition of rocks to the fuel tank (~ 10% of the volume per year).
Thanks, Scissor! I’m going to add that to my next discussion of the value of EVs.
If you can’t afford your ‘green’ energy you can’t afford a ‘green’ car
People want real vehicles, not electric toys. If they want me to drive electric then it will have internal combustion engine running a generator, not some plug&charge bullshit.
I want my real vehicle AND my electric toys. My post-war Lionel train setup in my basement is one of my favorite things to tinker and play with. EV – never.
Battery weedeaters and leaf blowers are fine, and my battery power tools have given me plenty of good use, and a thorough understanding of the limitations rechargeable power systems. Only get so many recharges before have to replace battery pack.
By the time it come to replace the battery pack it is cheaper to ditch the whole tool and dead battery, then go and buy a new one.
I am currently using a Porter Cable set of tools, have multiple batteries in two sizes so pretty flexible. Have not had to replace a pack yet. Using Craftzman battery weedeater, leaf blower and hedge trimmer, those are the batteries getting recharged the most so they will go first. Years ago used DeWalt tools and their batteries went bad fairly quickly, don’t know about their newer system, cost too much to begin with.
The question, 2hotel9, is whether you are charging those batteries in your house or attached garage?
Multiple companies have recommended that one should never charge lithium batteries near anything one values.
Have not had a battery pack get more than a bit warm while charging, they definitely get warm during use. From the articles I have read these fires happen because people are charging damaged batteries or leaving them plugged in for extended periods of time.
Yeah, and the newer models have increased voltages.
And unless you have a very small yard, you probably can’t get the work done without multiple batteries, all charged of course.
I can mow twice on a single tank of gas, and I can refill in about a minute should I run out.
You must have small yard. I mow 3 acres and I have yet to find a battery mower that can mow even 1/2 acre without recharging (or having a spare set of batteries – EXPENSIVE!)
All the battery lawnmowers I have looked at were rather unimpressive. If you have a tiny area to cut they are OK. I often have to cut grass that is 6-10 inches high and thick, so gas it is. lol
I trimmed 2 1/2 miles of fence line yesterday and only used one battery. Had a second with me, of course. Generally I get 1 hour 40-45 minutes of continuous run time with large pack and around an hour on the smaller packs. These are Craftsman V20 battery system. I use gas lawnmowers.
Battery drill guns I use are Porter Cable, I can drive a 10-pound box 2 1/2 inch deck screws on a fully charged battery. Have to take breaks because they do get pretty warm!
I loved my Lionel that I got around ’62. It had a car which had a missile on it which I could fire remotely. I think my parents threw it out after I grew up.
I remember seeing commercials for the missile launcher and the exploding box car on TV!
Who knew then that those toys would be collectors item now.
I have about half a bottle of Lionel smoke tablets. Looking online, each tablet is worth about $1 now. I even saw an original empty bottle priced at $50!
I destroyed a small fortune when I was a kid!
But we had fun. That’s what toys are for.
Who knew there were going to be sucke…er, “collectors” willing to pay heaps of money for that stuff!
Fun hobby. I recently found a book I thought was lost 20+ years ago, “Complete Service Manual for Lionel Trains by K-Line”.
It only covers the post-war stuff. No “Fundimentions” when General Mills owned them or later after K-Line(?) bought them.
If you have an issue come up, maybe bring it up in the next “Open Thread”. An answer might be there.
In the U.K. Renault is running an ad campaign on rethinking the combustion engine – in a self charging hybrid
So, it will have an ICE running a generator, not plug in toy crap.
Volkswagen—as well as all other car makers jumping on the EV production bandwagon—should already have known about the following quote, but it bears repeating:
“You can fool all the people some of the time and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.”
—(mis)attributed variously to Abraham Lincoln, P.T. Barnum or others
So how many $Billions did Justin Trudeau just give to VW to build a car battery plant in Ontario?
$13 billion! Approximately 5 million per job. Delusional Liberal government spends like the taxpayer has bottomless pockets.
Have you heard the outcome of the other battery plant operator wanting the same deal?
Stellantis? When they heard of the massive subsidy to VW, they stopped construction of their battery plant and are now in negotiations for megabucks. Our Trudeau government is profligate with taxpayer monies so expect billions more out of our pockets.
UK Telegraph has the same story:
“”The electric car ‘revolution’ is a disaster before it’s begun
Quote:Politicians are forcing electric cars on a public that doesn’t want them
Remind me – who was yowling on about ‘authoritarianism’ recently……
here
Yesterday the Tesla charging lot (which is the first one out-of-staters encounter in Vermont) had 12 Teslae gobbling up electrons. I believe that was a new record. Most of the occupants left for lunch, but a few (who had not read the owner’s manual fine print) stayed in the vehicle while charging. Clear sky, 85F. What a pleasant way to while away your holiday.
Love “Teslae “ as the plural for Tesla! We thought we were the only ones who said that!
Yeah, as I recall first declension plural.
Except for the Eucalyptus trees, the roads in the video looks like driving in Pennsylvania.
That road in the video is a high quality country road.
This is a real country road, Ardent Valley, Southern Flinders Rangers.
Everyone drives on the wrong side of the road in PA?
Face it! The only ways EVs are going to replace ICE vehicles in general use is if the government shoves them down our throats.
Reminiscent of East Germany and their Trabant cars. No choice, years on waiting lists to purchase, unreliable, good “social credit” score required . That tells you where Western govts are headed in a nutshell.
And if that comes to pass, very few people will ever have new cars again, and many automakers will go bankrupt.
The demand for Cuban auto mechanics will be overwhelming!
Governments are already shoving them down peoples’ throats. Increasing ICE mileage and pollution standards beyond what is technologically and economically feasible.
It will be fun watching CA’s auto marketplace during the late 2020s as their percentage EV mandates ramp up. “Tijuana Taxies” will take on a whole new meaning.
Well there are over 1.4 billion ICE vehicles in the world compared to around 27m EVs (IEA) so that’s a lot of throats you have to deal with 🙂
It sounds like all the Australian road maintenance funds have been diverted to unreliables subsidies.
They certainly have in solar-wind scam-promoting Washington State, USA. Grrr. *BUMP!* “When are they going to fix that thing!!”
(Yes, I DO drive around the potholes/rough patches of road, but, sometimes, oncoming traffic, etc. makes it impossible)
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technology/worlds-first-fully-electric-flying-car-approved-by-faa-accepting-preorders
This gives new meaning to the phrase “pie in the sky”.
(How will people get refunds when the company goes belly “up”?)
Ying electric car? Great -give one to every Eco-zealot and tell them they can have it for nothing if they can complete a trip across the Atlantic or Pacific without recharging.
OK, so a car maker is making vehicles that are inferior in most every way to traditional gas or diesel powered vehicles, and then they wonder why few are buying them?
There is no doubt in my mind that this will also happen in the US. So many of the much touted battery factories coming online will eventually end up going bust, and any car maker that can’t retool quickly to make traditional vehicles could well go bankrupt. Volkswagen might escape that fate if it keeps enough of its production line in ICE vehicles. Then it will have something to fall back on.
This sort of thing is seen time and time again in the history of products. A company comes up with what it thinks will be the hottest thing out there, and then said product is widely panned. Consider New Coke. But at least Coca Cola didn’t totally retool their production lines to the point that they could not continue to make regular Coke and other drinks….a soda is a soda. Another example is the laser disk for videos. And there are many others too numerous to mention.
The only thing different in this case is that the governments of the world are trying really hard to push and promote the inferior product. And finally, there is that old saying “you can lead the horse to the water, but you can’t make it drink”. You can force a car manufacturer to make and promote EVs, but you can’t make people buy them. I think this is just the beginning of resistance to all EVs. Governments that keep pushing them could well create lots of new Cubas – tons of ancient ICE vehicles on the roads as people keep repairing them and rebuilding them. California will be an interesting test case.
Govts likely won’t ban ICEs outright. Instead they will make gasoline very very expensive and will charge prohibitive “carbon taxes”. In addition, insurance will be very high —or not available for purchase to ICE cars. That is, driving them won’t be banned per se, but driving them without insurance which you cannot buy WILL be illegal.
Re Volkswagen a quick search reveals they delivered around 4.56m vehicles worldwide in 2022 of which 572,000 were EVs. So well over 80% were not electric.
When should we buy one? Hmm, how about, nEVer!
The reason to have a BEV or solar panels is to brag about having them.
When you have something unique and expensive you are signaling that you are rich but humble because you are protecting the environment.
Of course when you are the second person that has it, it is no longer unique. The solar panels on houses where I know the people no longer work. Something to complain about when they cost you rather than save money.
Consumer reluctance is what smart people exercise when buying things that have yet to be proven.
I am going to brag about being rich. I am retired and have all the money I need. I have a classic sail boat, classic car, and classic motor home. They were not classic when I bought them, just well used.
I have been on the side of the road 4 times so far this year. A friend is telling me it is time to get a new motor home (about $300k). Of course I would no longer have all the money I needed if something else broke.
The problem with new is new does not last long. Two of my problems were things that were new 5 years ago with an expected life of five years. Two of the problems were things that break after 200k miles.
When it comes to being green, lasting a long time is an important factor. So far BEV and solar are epic failures.
My classic car is a Honda Civic. With 200k it has a lot of miles left in so any minor repair is worth it. Most of it can be recycled. With 200k miles my motor home with a Cummins diesel and a Freightliner chassis is just now being broken in. After failing to replace a fan belt, I have reviewed what other things have lasted longer than I expected I would last.
About $3k in the next year.
So how long will the car last compared to the driver?
My old guy advice is to wait to buy a BEV till we run out of oil. The your BEV will be fueled by coal. Fusion will still be 20 years away.
I’m pretty sure, in the UK at least, most new EV’s go to the lease companies, where they are contracted out to businesses that give them to the company reps and management as company cars. After 2 or 3 years they are returned to the lease company, who then flog them off to the used car dealers. It would appear that this is where the bottleneck is, as they are hard to shift on to Joe Public. I understand that there are now some dealers who are telling the lease companies that they don’t want to take their worthless junk. Oops, I mean “modern engineering miracles”..
It was the same with hybrids. A study showed that most business drivers only ever drove them in petrol mode, but it made the headline sales figures of hybrids look good.
The caption: “Imagine driving a battery car on this”
Just take a fold-up, stick-it-in-the-trunk solar array to recharge it while you take a break to eat or something. Free energy, problem solved.
Hmm, can’t find that sarcasm font.
Unfortunately, you will and then no one will live out there and they will save even more money.
I decided that I like EVs.
As long as someone else owns and maintains them and I’m not required to subsidize the vehicles.
The reasoning is simple. The West flat out needs a more robust and built-out energy grid. Adding hypothetical EVs into the grid gives excuse to accommodate this alleged increased demand. If that is an excuse, then I am for it. Since the EVs are a hassle to operate when compared to ICE, the electric pet rock will be a plaything and social talisman, there will be adoption to get it off the car lots and boost the manufacturer’s CAFE, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they will be a mile-for-mile replacement of the family ICE.
Furthermore, weather based energy is a fact of life because the politicians and the party stewards/doners have deemed that to be true for the foreseeable future. Batteries in the EVs may just as well be regulated or the owners nudged to incorporate the batteries into a net-grid storage platform for local use for when the demand for power outlives the supply of power from vanity weather generation.
So batteries can serve as a fair-weather reliable backup for extending the energy collected from solar over the course of the panel’s productive cycle. Since I don’t care to supply these batteries for late-afternoon/evening peak demands, and the social pressure manipulates the weak minded into buying what is effectively the neighborhood community battery, I look at it as win given the hostile energy environment imposed upon us by our overlords.
Take away all the subsidies and incentives and watch sales and demand really plummet. The manufacturers are largely to blame here because they figured government enticements to consumers would allow them to keep prices high, while avoiding the development of small EVs idea for short-range urban commuting. But with EVs priced typically 50%-plus higher than their ICEV counterparts, a $5000-$7000 subsidy still leaves them too expensive, so now the producers’ hope is a government ban on the sale of new ICEVs in the near future. Except consumers won’t tolerate this type of blackmail, and will probably boycott EVs even more, while voting against any political party that proposes any such arm-twisting.
China is the worlds largest market for EVs yet the industry is in trouble there. Their largest EV maker, Nio, has been making huge losses, has reduced the price of its cars to try and shift them and cancelled its free 6 battery swap out scheme. The Chinese government has had to extend its subsidy scheme till 2027 at a cost of £56.9bn
Get rid of all subsidies, everyone has to pay taxes or no one pays taxes.
I just bought a Bolt EUV. It took 10 months to get it. The battery was the last 4 months of waiting. An EV isn’t just something everyone can get. You got to have a place to plug it in and most people’s garages are crammed storage spaces and cars are parked outside. It was like 42K after taxes so it’s a good 15K above gas vehicles. I have a gas SUV for long trips but this is mostly for work and running errands. Keeping in in the 20 to 80% charge, for me, it only needs to be charged once a week for about 7 hours. It’s quiet and zippy. The plan is to trade it in when the 7 year electronics warrantee runs out. I don’t want to have to pay to fix it. Then I’ll see if I want another one or just stick with gas. I don’t know if I want to wait so long again unless things change.
Just stick with gas. Why encourage the idiots with a “special purpose vehicle” purchase that’s not even necessary (your gas suv can run around town, too).