NZ helped scrub ‘plant-based’ diets from IPCC climate report

News Brief by Kip Hansen – 12 April 2022

According to Marc Daalder reports at  newsroom., a New Zealand based news website:

 “New Zealand diplomats helped remove references to the need for “plant-based” diets from the latest IPCC report’s influential summary”. 

“Coverage of the negotiations by the Earth Negotiations Bulletin – the only media outlet permitted to attend the event – makes clear that New Zealand argued against the use of the term “plant-based” in favour of “sustainable healthy diets” in at least two sections of the report’s summary.”

Daalder refers to this section of the approved SPM:

Summary for Policymakers IPCC AR6 WG III  C.9.1

“Demand-side and material substitution measures, such as shifting to balanced, sustainable healthy diets [See Footnote 62], reducing food loss and waste, and using bio-materials, can contribute 2.1 GtCO2-eq yr-1 reduction.”

FOOTNOTE 62: ‘Sustainable healthy diets’ promote all dimensions of individuals’ health and wellbeing; have low environmental pressure and impact; are accessible, affordable, safe and equitable; and are culturally acceptable, as described in FAO and WHO. The related concept of balanced diets refers to diets that feature plant-based foods, such as those based on coarse grains, legumes, fruits and  vegetables, nuts and seeds, and animal-sourced food produced in resilient, sustainable and low-GHG emission systems, as described in SRCCL.”

[SRCCL = Special Report Climate Change and Land (2019)]

The Kiwis did us a good turn with that.  A demand that the world must shift to “plant-based” diets is nothing more than another attempt of the UN and IPCC to force society to make changes that UN bureaucrats and the Davos crowd demand – not changes for themselves, but only changes to be forced on every other common man and woman

The most interesting thing about this report is that it shows how clearly the wording that appears in IPCC Summaries for Policy Makers are based on politics and not on any underlying science at all.  The brave Kiwis, supported by India and Kenya, forced the IPCC to stick to science and call for “balanced, sustainable healthy diets”, which except for the  vague but important quality of ‘balanced’ and the undefined amorphous quality ‘sustainable’, is at least firmly supported by medical science. 

# # # # #

Author’s Comment:

Next time you meet a New Zealander, a Kiwi, shake his hand and thank him . . .

Maybe they have delayed the nutty demand that  “everyone must be vegan” nonsense from the IPCC.

Thanks for reading.

# # # # #

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Tom Halla
April 13, 2022 6:05 am

I do not know whether vegans or the Green Blob are more self righteous and preachy. Of course, there is considerable overlap.

Gregory Woods
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 7:43 am

Don’t Kip, I’ll make up for that….

Oldseadog
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 9:27 am

In bad taste I know but couldn’t resist.

vegans.png
buggs
Reply to  Oldseadog
April 13, 2022 10:18 am

How do you know if someone is vegan? Just wait, they’ll tell you.

Mac
Reply to  Oldseadog
April 13, 2022 5:01 pm

That reminds me of an old Bob Hope joke. He looked out and saw Euell Gibbons grazing on his front lawn! Gibbons was a 1960’s advocate for eating wild foods.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 14, 2022 9:01 pm

He was 64 when he died. His obit said he “died of natural causes”.

stinkerp
Reply to  Tom Halla
April 13, 2022 6:33 pm

Also for the record, the Summary for Policymakers is a political document, not a scientific one. Every one of them over the years has numerous claims that are contradicted by the actual science portions of the IPCC reports. I wouldn’t fret much about the SPM. It’s written to have have an aura of scienceyness because it’s included with the rest of the IPCC reports, but it’s all nonsense.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  stinkerp
April 13, 2022 8:30 pm

The media does not know that…nor do they know the SPM is released before the AR is actually complete.

Last edited 1 month ago by DMacKenzie
Gerry, England
Reply to  DMacKenzie
April 14, 2022 2:40 am

Yes, they need a bit of time to make changes to the report that the summary summarises. You couldn’t make it up…..oh, wait…

Rhoda R.
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 14, 2022 12:09 pm

Worse, only the SPM gets reported to the general population

JoeG
April 13, 2022 6:20 am

Killing innocent animals for something that you don’t need, can’t be a good thing, though.

Jim Gorman
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 6:30 am

Do you believe in biological based prey and predator? Should all predators be wiped from the face of the earth?

ThinkingScientist
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 6:38 am

Animals are neither innocent nor guilty. They just are. The rest of nature’s predators and omnivores don’t agonise over it and nor do I.

I object to cruelty, but that is completely different to eating meat.

You are free to make your own personal choices and I wish you well with them.

Mr.
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 6:47 am

“If God did not intend for us to eat animals, then why did he make them out of meat?”

John Cleese

Fran
Reply to  Mr.
April 13, 2022 10:46 am

The “Reluctant Cannibal”, Flanders & Swan: “If the Juju had meant us not to eat people, he wouldn’t have made them of meat.”

jeffery p
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 6:50 am

A not-too-in-depth look at human anatomy, the human digestive system and human nutrition shows human beings are designed to eat meat.

Jyrkoff
Reply to  jeffery p
April 13, 2022 7:50 am

And a not-too-in-depth look will lead you to this false conclusion. We are omnivores, plain and simple. Our dentition is the key, not our digestion. Our teeth are developed to grind grains or tear flesh.

And a not-too-in-depth look at human diets across the world and in “modern” times (last 6k years) we see that those who eat mostly plants are the most amazingly fit. As the Tarahumara if they eat steaks on their 50-mile fun runs at 7,000 feet. No, it’s beans and corn.

Ask the Tibetan goat-herders if yogurt and tofu will sustain them on their herding hikes up the Himalayas at 8,000 feet or more. Ask if the Bulghurs were known for being bigger and stronger, despite their refusing to eat cows but instead ate wheat. Ask whether Mesoamerican warriors would eat bowls of quinoa or maybe chia, or if they filled up on meat, before marching all day and then fighting in hand-to-hand combat.

You can eat whatever you choose. You are omnivorous.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 8:41 am

But then why do humans utilize animal protein better than plant protein and why do animal proteins come out on top of the protein quality list for human digestion? It sounds to me like you know nothing about human nutrition but can spout a lot of BS about ancient warriors.

Philip
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:31 am

Not grain. Grain came along long after our dental development was fixed. Meat, nuts, green leafy vegetable, seasonal berries and fruits were the norm of the hunter gather diet until the advent of agriculture and fixed settlements.

ThinkingScientist
Reply to  Philip
April 13, 2022 11:31 am

Spot on.

StephenP
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
April 13, 2022 1:18 pm

The Maasai are a pastoralist tribe living in Kenya and Northern Tanzania. Their traditional diet consists almost entirely of milk, meat, and blood. Two thirds of their calories come from fat, and they consume 600 – 2000 mg of cholesterol a day.

Streetcred
Reply to  StephenP
April 13, 2022 5:03 pm

Average lifespan of 45 years … just saying.;-)

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  Streetcred
April 16, 2022 1:22 am

compared to barely 40 for the average Tanzanian. It always ends up with the Thomas Sowell’s ‘compared to what’ statement. the other issue is that is this Maasai on a standard diet or a modified diet such as what is being found these days with children being fed gruel sweetened with honey. When Mary Ruddick stayed with the Maasai quite recently she found a centenarian woman who had over 20 children, was still quite well and refused to eat anything but traditional foods. There was also an old man about 80-odd who would climb the local mountain at a pace Mary, who is a fairly healthy 40-odd westerner, could not hope in the least keep up with.

Even small introductions of western foods could have dramatic effects on health spans of these peoples with noting the Inuit with as little as about 4% carbs in their diet have quite substantial changes in health outcomes. Which means it is practically impossible unless you find the odd individual who refuses to partake of those introduced foods, that you can make an assessment on. We generally have to rely on reports and some studies done on these groups before much change had taken place such as the work done by Weston A Price.

There was also a study recently referenced by Dr Paul Mason in a talk from the 1930s where there was an active comparisson between the Maasai and a similar group of largely vegetarians who intermarried with the Maasai for generations before. This would lead to largely similar genetics in the groups and yet the diet meant that on average the Maasai men were 5 inches taller and much healthier than their vegetarian counterparts. There were only 2 health issues more common in Maasai then which was constipation and arthritis. Not exactly uncommon issues for a people not genetically suited to consumption of milk, even raw milk.

Contrary to this we see in many of the blue zones that dairy is in fact consumed in quite large volumes, but the vegan activists try to write that out of the history of these areas somehow trying to make the diet majority beans or sweet potatoes even when food surveys prior to WW2 and in the 1960s often points to animals like pigs as the main source of nutrition.

Oldseadog
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:32 am

Ask an Inuit where their ancestors got their vegetables.

Wade
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:32 am

I have a cousin who is vegan, and I can assure you that she is not healthier than I am. She is obsessed over her weight, and yet can never lose that last few pounds despite never eating any sugar or meat. She spends 1/3 of her waking hours preparing her organic vegan food. She has to, else she would would have the same boring meals again and again. What kind of life is that? And her skin looks worse than her pre-vegan days.

Meanwhile I, meat eater, have a balanced diet of a few starches, a little sugar, a little alcohol, some veggies, and meat just got a great report from my doctor. I rarely drink soda with high-fructose corn syrup, sometimes drink soda with sugar, and never eat anything cooked in grease. And I have been about the same weight for over 10 years. And I don’t need to spend a lot of time preparing meals due to lack of variety.

You can replace almost all your required nutrients with plants and bugs, except for one: Vitamin B12. The only source of that essential nutrient is meat. The body rejects almost all non-food sources of vitamins. B12 has to come from eating meat. Therefore, you must eat meat to be fully healthy. The key is always balance. Any extreme is never healthy.

meab
Reply to  Wade
April 13, 2022 11:11 am

The Vegan Society, right on its web site, says that Vegans must take supplemental Vitamin B12 to avoid neurological degeneration. Before artificial B12, the only source of B12 in the diet was meat and animal products.

A vegan diet is not more healthy – the latest metastudies show that vegan mortality is the same as for meat eaters – some diseases, like colon cancer, are reduced by the vegan diet, but other diseases favor the meat eating diet.

Gregg Eshelman
Reply to  meab
April 14, 2022 3:22 am

Most vitamin supplements use versions of them with very low bio-availability. That’s why they have levels of units in the thousands when the amount a human body needs from natural sources is much lower.

The commonly used form of synthetic B-12 only results in about 5% of it actually being metabolized, the rest just gets passed through.

Look for Methylcobalamin and/or Adenosylcobalamin on the supplement label. If you see Cyanocobalamin that’s the synthetic which is a poor replacement.

People who try to exist on an absolutely pure vegan diet may find themselves in a hospital with a Hydroxocobalamin IV drip. That’s a form of B12 only used in cases of severe deficiency.

jeffery p
Reply to  Wade
April 13, 2022 11:44 am

It’s almost a fallacy to make such comparisons. Maybe your innate health is better or your cousin’s health is below average.

Are there any identical twin studies? if not, there’s a grant proposal waiting for someone to write.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  jeffery p
April 13, 2022 10:18 pm

Forget where but there was a simple observation on how long term diets effect people.

The photo was of some Chinese delegates (traditional rice based diet) meeting some Mongolian/Central Asian State of Some Description (maintaining a traditional meat and milk diet).

There was a group photo. Literal head and shoulders.

What more examples? Look at the photos of slum dwellers. Poor underclass (and we are talking proper old school underclass, not this modern woke ‘I am oppressed cause I still have a 3 year old iPhone’ First World Problem rubbish) had poor diets. The trope of the stick thin street urchin developed for a reason.

A child with long term better diet is going to grow better than one without. You do not need to do a study. In fact I would personally suggest that even attempting a study has major ethical issues. Look at the evidence of people who were deliberately mistreated over the years in massive numbers and offer the suggestion that those people were simply of below average base health to start with.

Streetcred
Reply to  Wade
April 13, 2022 5:04 pm

I upped my meat consumption and my cholesterol improved significantly.

Last edited 1 month ago by Streetcred
shortie of greenbank
Reply to  Streetcred
April 16, 2022 1:57 am

we don’t measure cholesterol so not sure how it ‘improved’. If you meant Lipoprotein measurement then they are estimates rather than a measurement and they have virtually no practical value. Heart attacks for example follow almost the exact same bell curve as the distribution of ‘cholesterol’ measurements with a slight issue being more prominent at the lowest readings.

All cause mortality also is worse with long term low lipoprotein estimates with optimum in this usually being about 220 mg/dl (5.7 mmol/L) which is the range they start pushing contra indicated statins at you at. While all cause only graduallys goes up the higher the total ‘cholesterol’ and sharply goes up the lower the total ‘cholesterol’ in a j-shaped curve. None of these measurements still have any real predictive power to them.

Any predictive power comes from ‘epidemiology’ which like climate models can barely predict breakfast if you already have eggs in the pan they are so poor. For understanding of this epidemiology cannot give you actual risk or causation and even the epidemiologists themselves understand in these fields that you need at least somewhere between 600-1000% minimum to point to causation between two associations. Jon Ionidis is one of the more respected people in this field and he even says that 200% is at best 20% likely to give you a result matching the prediction meaning that 80% of the time you will actually find no difference or the opposite. So when talking about ‘cholesterol’ how ‘strong’ was the findings in relation to heart disease?

With LDL, the supposed ‘Bad’ cholesterol it was somewhere about 135%, this isn’t ‘high’ LDL but LDL in general so remember what I said earlier about lower levels were found the most likely with a worse result (barely much difference it should be noted). Low HDL combined with high Trigs was about 210%, high Blood Pressure/hypertension about 610% and diabetes about 1040%.

So we see that ‘cholesterol’ has no real predictive power in heart health, its a means to sell a product rather than improve health outcomes. High blood pressure on the other hand is highly likely to have some causative action and can be regulated with a diet high in taurine for example (as can low blood pressure, taurine is a blood pressure regulator so do not take it with blood pressure tablets if you supplement with taurine). While diabetes is poor glucose management so you can either follow the associations advice that more glucose is needed and pump yourself full of insulin and lower glucose intake and manage energy via other means such as a ketogenic diet etc to see which works best.

TonyG
Reply to  shortie of greenbank
April 18, 2022 3:14 pm

“Heart attacks for example follow almost the exact same bell curve as the distribution of ‘cholesterol’ measurements with a slight issue being more prominent at the lowest readings.”

Shortie, do you happen to have any links on that? Would really appreciate it!

shortie of greenbank
Reply to  Wade
April 16, 2022 1:30 am

This is actually incorrect. B12 is easily bio-available to vegans, and we can look to a genetic cousin the Gorilla for how to acquire the said vitamin if the person wants to live the nutritionally poor vegan lifestyle. When Gorillas eat lots of fiber that ferments in the lower part of the gut, it cannot absorb B12 from this low in the process and thus passes it out in the stool. The Gorilla then picks up and eats the stool thus gaining access to B12.

I’ll prefer to get mine from steaks and eggs but let it not be said that it is impossible for vegans to get B12. 😉

jef
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 11:33 am

A closer reading would show I didn’t claim human beings were designed to eat only meat. If I implied otherwise…

Animals designed to eat plants have different teeth and digestive systems. Look at a deer and look at a human being. Their teeth are made for chewing plants. Our teeth are made for meat and plants. Their digestive system is relatively bigger. Our brains are relatively bigger.

b.nice
Reply to  jef
April 13, 2022 3:06 pm

“Our brains are relatively bigger.”

Albeit, basically non-functional in climate activists and other marxist operatives..

Streetcred
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 5:00 pm

True to your moniker.

Craig from Oz
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 10:07 pm

Jyrkoff, a quick study – does your keyboard function in a useful manner if you restrict yourself to using only your mouth? Then same test using your fingers.

Human evolution allowed the use of tools. We developed the ability to process food sources independent of our teeth. We lack the ‘killing teeth’ of large predators because basically we don’t need them. We kill using tools.

Basically if push came to shove we could ‘tool’ a method of getting next to anything into a state we could swallow it, which brings us back to the argument that it is not out teeth that determine our diet, it is our digestion.

We can put anything into our mouth – rocks, small twigs, sawdust, our foot, dead animal – because we have the ability to process it beforehand. The big question is can our body then extract benefit from the ideas, or do they pass through largely unchanged, or worse, cause us harm.

We can process meat in our diet. We benefit from the experience.

Deal with it.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 6:54 am

Joe-
How about if I let you decide what is okay for you to eat & you return the
favor & let me decide for myself what I can eat? Works for me!

leowaj
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 6:59 am

I can speak from experience. I DO need meat. Not want– need. The protein density is far higher in animal meat than in even the nearest equivalent in the vegetable world. And being sick and gaunt all the time on a 100% no meat diet is terrible.

Jyrkoff
Reply to  leowaj
April 13, 2022 7:42 am

Massively ignorant statement.

I went vegan, sugar-free, gluten-free, and soy-free and at the same time I went on a mission to get super fit. No problems whatsoever. I was ripped, shredded, and could run a 5k any day of the week, on trail in sandals or even barefoot. I had not just a 6-pack, but every muscle you want to see popping out was showing proudly. I was told that I was “quite the specimen” due to my fitness and even got compliments on my muscled legs.

I was eating fewer than 2,000 calories a day, less than 60 grams of protein, all from plant sources. And this in my early 40’s!

Those who think plant-based diets are somehow unhealthy are grossly ignorant and should be quiet before they embarrass themselves further.

Archer
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 8:09 am

While it might work for you, from very personal and bitter experience I can tell you it won’t work for me. I require red meat in my diet to counteract a persistent issue of anaemia. It’s all about bioavailability. Iron from plant sources – even sources that superficially appear far richer in iron than meat – has very poor bioavailability, especially when consumed with anything containing calcium or certain other essential nutrients. The majority of the iron in plant form is just wasted when consumed. Iron in meat is immediately bioavailable due to the fact that it’s already in the form required for the human body to use.

Jyrkoff
Reply to  Archer
April 13, 2022 8:21 am

I have no issues from iron deficiency because I know what plants to eat which have enough iron. I used to supplement because I was so worried about it, but have not taken any iron in some time, and my last blood work showed zero deficiencies.

If you get enough Vitamin C, then the bioavailability of iron, in any source, heme or non-heme, increases. Since I get more than enough C from my diet, I have no anemia. Every issue folks come up with to debunk veganism has been well proven to be a non-issue.

We get enough of everything with a properly chosen diet. You can be vegan and eat only cookies and sugar soda and fatty, unhealthy foods all day, and you’ll indeed be deficient and weak. Or you can do it correctly and be running 5k’s any day of the week without even considering heme iron, B or C Vitamins, or amino acid profiles.

Veganism works, you just have to do it correctly. Eat all the meat you want, it’s your body, and you must take care of its specific needs. But if you wanted to, you could go vegan and simply supplement like the “cheater” vegans do. There’s plenty of excuses to not go vegan, but a lot of valid reasons to give it a fair shot, like I did.

An open mind is a large mind.

andic
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 10:06 am

Five kilometers?
I’m sitting in bed finishing a glass of whisky and I could go and run 5k right now and be back in twenty minutes. And I’m 40. Maybe if you were eating proper you could manage 6k or even 7k.

jeffery p
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 11:58 am

Confuscious say too open-minded, brain falls out.

John Dilks
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 4:19 pm

Vegan diet is to complicated and fraught with the danger of not getting it right. I’ll stick to the tried and true diet. Everything in moderation.

Archer
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 14, 2022 1:27 am

I think I’ll trust my doctor over some nobody on the internet, thank you.

Mike Bryant
Reply to  Archer
April 14, 2022 2:16 pm

Who is your doctor? Every doctor I have found has been bought off by big pharma.

Gunga Din
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 14, 2022 9:47 pm

My Dad was a Pediatrician. He started his own practice that later grew as other Doctors joined and other locations were opened. He practiced for 50 years.
One thing he hated was when drug companies started advertising on TV to the patients. They convince the patient that they need this or that. If their Doctor won’t prescribe it, they shop for another Doctor until they find one that will.
It used to be they had to “sell” the drug to the Doctors, who knew a thing or two about drugs/antibiotics and their effects and side effects, to get them prescribe it. (I remember those days when I was a kid. Dad had a box full of samples in a locked closet that he’d rummage through when one of us was sick.)

TonyG
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 15, 2022 7:48 am

Doctors are, however, trained in modern medicine and the approach of modern medicine is to treat illness with medications.

Kip, that’s one reason I tend to prefer osteopaths, as they’re trained to take a more systemic approach.

One thing he hated was when drug companies started advertising on TV to the patients.

Gunga – an opinion with which I generally agree, but I have to say that since I don’t regularly see an eye doctor (even though I should) I would have never known about the new Vuity eyedrops if not for TV ads.

archer
Reply to  Mike Bryant
April 15, 2022 2:58 am

NHS gp, so no big pharma entanglement on her part. That happens at the managerial level here. Her initial prescription was iron supplements, but they resulted in me becoming intimately familiar with the location of every toilet in a five mile radius, so she suggested I bump up my red meat intake and get my iron that way.

The reason the supplements had that effect was because they are massively overloaded with plant-sourced iron compounds to make up for their poor bioavailability; they are poorly absorbed at the best of times, and pass through entirely unabsorbed if you take them with tea or anything containing calcium. Vitamin c does increase bioavailability, but the effect is marginal and the required volume of plant matter necessary to replace the iron in a 200g serving of beef is impractically large as a result.

Last edited 1 month ago by archer
Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 8:43 am

Sounds to me like you’re not getting enough protein to your brain. Of course your muscles will show if you don’t have any body fat. It doesn’t mean that they are strong and useful. I’ll bet any NFL lineman can kick the crap out of your “quite the specimen” body.

leowaj
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 8:51 am

I never claimed that the vegan diet in broad strokes is inherently unhealthy. I, too, was on a vegan diet to lose weight. And I did lose quite a bit of weight. But after my body was done consuming excess fat, it needed something else. So, I added protein “rich” non-meat sources. It was not enough and I often felt sluggish, had a cloudy mind, was moody, and generally a miserable person to be around. So I slowly returned to a meat diet. First chicken then, last year, red meat. The sluggishness, moodiness, and cloudy mind disappeared. Not only that but with a vegan diet, my endurance exercises began to falter. Where I could normally walk 3 to 4 miles a day, I was tiring out after 2 miles.

No one way of living for one person will apply just as well to another person. Vegan diet works for you but a mixed diet works for me. A protein-heavy diet works for another person but not for you or me. Do not call me ignorant after having done the homework myself and learned how my body works.

Last edited 1 month ago by leowaj
Derg
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 8:59 am

As long as you afford people choice then I can accept yours. Please don’t support people like Biden who limit choice.

Philip
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:35 am

Not in the least ignorant. You have an agenda. Read some of the literature published by vegans who learnt at the cost of their health that one sandal doesn’t fit all.

Fran
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 10:56 am

Vegan diets without B12 supplements are not life-sustaining. If you need an industrially produced supplement for the diet to work at all, then you cannot make any claims as to its being “natural”.

NB: Is it possible to eat vegan and local?

H.R.
Reply to  Fran
April 13, 2022 9:34 pm

Fran:  Is it possible to eat vegan and local?”


I dunno, Fran. How many vegans live in your locale? 😲
😉

TonyG
Reply to  H.R.
April 14, 2022 7:04 am

I don’t know about Fran, but I have an entire field full of vegans right next door.

Richard Page
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 14, 2022 3:43 pm

I should imagine they have an initial higher speed but only over a very short distance.

H.R.
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 14, 2022 4:10 pm

Kip, those free-range vegans are harder to catch, but they do taste better.

Worth the extra effort!
😉

Gunga Din
Reply to  Fran
April 14, 2022 9:56 pm

I had a nutrition book that gave the symptoms of B12 deficiency. It said they can take about 5 years to begin to manifest.
One I remember (I no longer have the book.) is mental issues that resemble schizophrenia.

lee riffee
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 12:26 pm

Actually you are a testament to just how hardy our species is with regards to being able to survive on just about any diet, no matter how poor. While humans are weak and slow compared to many other animals, we have a big advantage (even without our intelligence) over most of them because we can get by on a huge variety of different food stuffs. Otherwise, we would not have been able to colonize the earth.
While being vegan isn’t an ideal diet for the vast majority of homo sapiens, it is survivable, at least in the short term. Many times in human history (and pre-history) individuals survived with little or no animal protein, and at least some of those individuals were able to reproduce and raise the next generation. So yes, a vegan diet is survivable, as you have seen in your own case.
That said, some people cannot tolerate such a diet for long term, and many people simply do not want to give up animal protein. It all boils down to personal preference (and, of course, physiological tolerance).
I also know from my own personal experience what I’m able to tolerate. In my late 20’s I was a near-vegetarian. I ate chicken and fish 2-3 times a week, and had a cup of yogurt 5 days out of a week, and occasionally ate ice cream in the summer time. That was the only animal protein I ate. I had no problems with that diet at all, and the only difference I notice now that I eat eggs daily and red meat once or twice a week is that on my old diet, I’d occasionally be turned away from my regular blood donation due to low iron. It happened roughly once a year. I had enough iron for my own purpose but not enough to sustain losing a pint of blood every 2 months. Women are also susceptible to low iron more than men. But, as the old saying goes – your mileage may vary….

Kevin McNeill
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 12:43 pm

Your pseudonym says it all.

Joao Martins
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 7:01 am

Killing innocent animals for something that you don’t need, can’t be a good thing

… and killing people by promoting unscientific, superstitious ideas is even worse!

SasjaL
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 7:16 am

That’s something humans and other predators always have been doing. It’s part of life.

A pure plant diet will undoubtedly lead to malnutrition. Vitamine B12 is one of those nutritions we can’t produce ourselves and that we only can get from animals. Without it we get anemia and untreated, it’s ‘goodbye’. The health care system where I live acknowledged that several decades ago. It also leads to reduced brain functionality … (food activists seems to be in this situation already …) Humans are omnivores, not herbivores. If meat would something bad, the Inuits would have been gone long time ago. The traditional Inuit diet consists of seal meat, seal oil and fish. Occasionally some polar bear meat. No veggies, what so ever. Health status? Completely healthy, which is the opposite condition of vegetarians and formost vegans … (and those who eat modern western industrial food …)

Supplements? Well, the real stuff are extracted from animals. The synthetic ‘equivalent’ lacks quality and efficiency, so you’ll need to digest far more. It’s not cheap either … Your choise, your wallet, not others!

Time to change your diet, before it’s to late …?

Fran
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 11:01 am

The largest mostly vegetarian country in the world (India) manages because of milk. Children who do not get any milk supplement grow into little scrawny people.

Jyrkoff
Reply to  SasjaL
April 13, 2022 8:32 am

Wrong. They HAVE to eat carbs. Humans cannot survive on only meat. We need three macronutrients to survive, and carbs are one of them. B Vitamins occur in plants. Did you not know this? Look it up.

I’ve been vegan for years and I don’t worry about B’s C, or any other micronutrients. No anemia, no deficiencies show up on my blood work. There is no wasting. I’ve maintained a steady weight for years and years now. I can increase muscle mass if I choose, simply by adding more protein and more resistance in my workouts.

Most non-vegans actually can’t keep up with me on the trail, assuming their meat diets will power them up the hill. Sorry, but when a bowl of quinoa takes me 4,000 feet up a mountain while the jerky eaters turn back exhausted, well, one cannot blame my diet or their diet. Fitness depends on how you use what you’ve got; and how well you use the fuel you’ve eaten. Humans can be carb-adapted, fat-adapted, or flexible, like me. But they can’t live on only protein and fat. There must be at least some carbs, or you die.

A poverty diet of beans and corn are all the Raramuri need to run 100 miles in homemade sandals at high altitude. So I see your Inuit and raise you a tribe of ultrarunners.

michel
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 10:08 am

No, there is no plant source (for humans) of B12. And it is essential for human health and healthy reproduction and child rearing.

We do, like ruminants, make B12 in the digestive system. But after the point at which nutrients are absorbed, so its not available to us.

Before 1900 the only source was animal based food. We evolved eating some meat fish and dairy. Trying to do without it, without B12 supplements, will lead to ill health and short lifespan. In the case of children, to serious developmental difficulties.

jeffery p
Reply to  michel
April 13, 2022 11:40 am

I don’t agree with Jyrkoff (what an appropriate name) but can’t you get B vitamins from yeasts? Bioavailability may be an issue though.

I don’t understand the vegan position on eating unfertilized eggs. They aren’t alive. It’s an egg, not an embryo.

Archer
Reply to  michel
April 14, 2022 1:29 am

We do, like ruminants, make B12 in the digestive system. But after the point at which nutrients are absorbed, so its not available to us.

This is why most great apes eat their own poop.

Paul Penrose
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 11:20 am

Liar. Name the edible plants that contain vitamin B12 in a bioavailable form. I’ve seen a number of people that tried to go vegan without taking B12 supplements, and it wasn’t pretty. Eventually they got the supplement route or just cheat and eat meat occasionally and just don’t tell their other vegan friends. This makes them frauds as far as I’m concerned, but it’s their life. So, which kind of vegan fraud are you?

jeffery p
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 12:29 pm

Has anybody here claimed humans can eat only meat? You need fat, too.

Seriously, fruits and vegetables are full of micronutrients. So are meats. They are complimentary.

al in kansas
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 2:34 pm

BS, there is no requirement to eat carbs. Your liver will product all the glucose you need from fat. Check with Shawn Baker, KenDBerryMD and numerous other carnivores, nothing but meat for years. Meat may contain a small amount of carbs anyway, so you will always be consuming a few.

John Dilks
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 4:26 pm

I believe that those ultra runners occasionally eat pork.

Smart Rock
Reply to  SasjaL
April 13, 2022 11:10 am

Inuit diet is traditionally reported as “meat-and-fish only” and this is not a matter of choice, taste, religious belief or indoctrination from “experts”. Meat and fish are what’s mostly available in lands occupied by Inuit people.

But, having spent a little time in a couple of Inuit communities, I can report that gathering and eating non-animal foods does appear to play a part in the Inuit diet. What I have seen being eaten was blueberries, cloudberries and some green leafy things that I couldn’t identify. What I have heard about but not seen was kelp, and I also heard stories about taking undigested green plants from the stomach of a freshly killed seal, washing them and eating them. So I submit that traditional Inuit diet includes as much fruit-and-veg as can be gathered from the harsh environment.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Smart Rock
April 13, 2022 2:46 pm

Dulse has been eaten for over one thousand years in North-Western Europe. The ancient Celtic warriors of old ate dulse as they were marching and, during the seventeenth mcentury, British sailors ate it to prevent scurvy. First recorded as being eaten was in 6th century.
I was at college with a guy from Skye whose mother gave him Dulce Broth to bring back to Edinburgh with him. I remember that it tasted very salty, I’m not sure whether it was due to the seaweed or the mother!

Bruce Ranta
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 7:42 am

If you grow plants to eat, you must keep the animals out. So you kill them, directly or indirectly. Too many people, especially those with a liberal arts background, fail to understand this very basic ecological fact.

Rick C
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 8:35 am

That’s why I eat a lot of pork. You just know those pigs are guilty of something. 😄

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Rick C
April 13, 2022 3:08 pm

The British and French peasants kept pigs and chickens. These supplied meat and eggs, both pigs and chickens could survive on scraps and scavenging. Nothing was wasted when a pig was killed. The diet was supplemented by grains suited to the Climate and potatoes.
In rural France you can still find little two level stone built sheds. The chickens lived on the first floor and the pigs on the ground floor.
It is a sign of thevwealth in the industrial West that people no longer have to keep pigs and chickens to survive and can afford to eat a meat free diet of previously expensive and rare foods from around the world.

As for Quorn, I still haven’t worked out the rationale for that

Tom.1
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 9:14 am

You are suggesting I don’t “need” bacon? To hell with that!

Old Cocky
Reply to  Tom.1
April 13, 2022 2:23 pm

Surely bacon is a vegetable.
and chocolate is too.

Beer is its own essential food group.

Old Cocky
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 7:15 pm

It’s nominally made using tomato.

Richard Page
Reply to  Old Cocky
April 14, 2022 3:45 pm

Tomatoes now but mushrooms originally.

Andy Pattullo
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 9:48 am

We are all born to eat and be eaten by something. There is no issue of guilt or innocence in nature. You are expressing personal beliefs not science. I support your right to act on your beliefs. Wealth share the same rights, not the same beliefs. The assumption that an action that doesn’t correspond to your beliefs “can’t be as good thing” is getting close to the line. It may not be a good thing for you, but for many others it may be life saving.

Andy Pattullo
Reply to  Andy Pattullo
April 13, 2022 9:50 am

“Wealth” should be “We all”.

TonyG
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 10:20 am

To quote Tom Halla: “I do not know whether vegans or the Green Blob are more self righteous and preachy.”

Thanks for providing a timely example

edit: I think that should have been a response to “Jyrkoff” instead

Last edited 1 month ago by TonyG
buggs
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 10:22 am

But you’ll happily ignore science and kill things with reproductive systems, excretory systems, circulatory systems, endocrine systems, etc. The only thing lacking is a face and eyes that are familiar to your own. That is an emotional evaluation of the system.

BTW, how many animals would never have lived, reproduced, had time to enjoy sunshine, eat, wander about etc. if they weren’t raised for the food chain?

Streetcred
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 4:57 pm

What tosh … what do you think happens on the wild Plains of Africa?

BobM
Reply to  JoeG
April 13, 2022 5:32 pm

How about killing innocent plant life? Eating meat is something we do need. Plant protein is not sufficient.

Gerry, England
Reply to  JoeG
April 14, 2022 2:42 am

How can you be sure they are innocent? Ever heard of pest control?

Patrick MJD
Reply to  JoeG
April 14, 2022 2:30 pm

These animals are grown for human consumption. Eating an innocent carrot can’t be a good thin either.

Richard Page
Reply to  Patrick MJD
April 14, 2022 3:47 pm

Have you seen carrots? Just look at them – they are never ‘innocent’.

ResourceGuy
April 13, 2022 6:32 am

That’s a temporary reprieve–wait till the next gathering with payoffs to stand aside in the next writing event. Obstacles must be pushed aside, bought off, or gulagged.

Bob Tisdale(@bobtisdale)
Editor
April 13, 2022 6:38 am

‘New Zealand diplomats helped remove references to the need for “plant-based” diets from the latest IPCC report’s influential summary.’ 

YAY NEW ZEALAND!!!!

I’ll thank you again later while I’m having my cheeseburger.

Mmmmmm cheeseburger,
Bob

tonyb(@climatereason)
Editor
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
April 13, 2022 6:54 am

Biob

Presumably you meant to write ‘sheese burger’? Soya based cheese and a burger made of Tofu?

Mr.
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 8:11 am

Great question Kip.
One that has puzzled me forever.
I have a friend who chooses to have vegetarian bacon.
She reckons it tastes just like real bacon.
But if you don’t like real bacon, why not eat tofu jerky or smoked cheese or something else instead of strips of smoked who knows what, that attempts to emulate a kind of food you already decided you don’t want to eat.

Just doesn’t make sense to me.

tonyb(@climatereason)
Editor
Reply to  Mr.
April 13, 2022 8:22 am

Mr.

Yes eat something completely different. There are numerous delicious alternatives to eating this fake product.

tonyb(@climatereason)
Editor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 8:21 am

Kip

I cant think of anything more horrible than eating fake meat that tastes like meat. If I wanted to have that taste I would eat the real thing, but as a vegetarian of so many years I am afraid the taste and smell and appearance of meat -fake or real is not pleasant

Bruce Ranta
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 8:39 am

My understanding is that ‘fake meat’ sales have plummeted and interest is fading fast.

tonyb(@climatereason)
Editor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 9:52 am

kip

As AGW says, there has been a lot of clever marketing based on saving the planet and eating healthily. Vegan products have also gained good positions on the shelves of supermarkets because of the marketing behind it.

The market is certainly growing here in Britain and we have always been a decade ahead of our meat eating European cousins.

In recent months it has sometimes proven difficult to get a vegetarian version of say a veggie burger , that is to say that uses milk, eggs, cheese or butter, which provides a much better taste and texture experience than many vegan products.

tonyb

Bruce Ranta
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 10:02 am

Beyond Meat Inc. Stock is down over 57% in the last 6 months. It’s a NASDAQ listing.

Last edited 1 month ago by Bruce Ranta
AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Bruce Ranta
April 13, 2022 9:35 am

That wouldn’t surprise me a bit. No human wave of people were clamoring for “fake meat” burgers, etc. – it’s all hype and “selling” (just like BEVs).

tonyb(@climatereason)
Editor
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 9:47 am

Kip

I know of no vegetarian personally that eats these meat tasting fakes.

I know of vegans that do, and those who for health reasons believe the plant based burger is better than the real meat based burger.

I will put a caveat on that, as if you are a very recent vegetarian that enjoyed meat but gave up for health reasons or peer pressure, you might not be so worried about eating something made of plants that tastes like the product you reluctantly gave up recently

John Dilks
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 4:37 pm

Reasons… Girl friend?

b.nice
Reply to  tonyb
April 13, 2022 3:20 pm

Not long ago I got a “burger” at a stall at a market.
Looked ok, tasty sauce, nice vegetable parts, but seemed to lack much in the way of “meat” taste. Basically tasteless and no “body” to it.

Decided not to bother with a burger from there again.

Was walking past the stand next day, and realised it was a vegan burger stall ..

… sort of explains the lack of “meat” taste, I guess.

TonyG
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 10:22 am

Kip, that’s puzzled me for years, too.

Ben Vorlich
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 3:16 pm

Something that both my other half and I wonder about. Why pretend something made in large industrial units in aa factory from a micro-fungus is from an animal that grew and flourished

But whatever floats your boat

kenji
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
April 13, 2022 10:29 am

Hmmm?

New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
New Zealand – Lamb
… yep … I got it. Special interests drive policy. No way to run the world.

Yet … I LOVE lamb. LOVE to eat them. They’re cute too … I like to look at them before I eat them. Thank you lamb producers for telling the Warmists to shove off

TonyG
Reply to  kenji
April 13, 2022 11:00 am

You mean they EAT them in NZ?

Mike Lowe
Reply to  TonyG
April 13, 2022 12:37 pm

We sure do. But many are exported.

Old Cocky
Reply to  Mike Lowe
April 13, 2022 3:45 pm

I know lots or rather blue kiwi sheep jokes….

Richard Page
Reply to  kenji
April 13, 2022 12:49 pm

Hey – New Zealand grass-fed beef is actually a big export and delicious. Not everything NZ is lamb or sheep!

H B
Reply to  Richard Page
April 13, 2022 2:58 pm

Don’t forget venison

Richard Page
Reply to  H B
April 14, 2022 3:49 pm

Now I never knew that – they have lots of deer in NZ?

Bob Tisdale(@bobtisdale)
Editor
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
April 13, 2022 3:43 pm

As promised in my comment this morning, I’m now eating a cheeseburger.

MMMMMMMMMMM, CHEESEBURGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Regards,
Bob

PS: I also consider it plant based. I plant it right in my mouth.

tonyb(@climatereason)
Editor
April 13, 2022 6:52 am

I have been a vegetarian all my adult life so am probably more qualified than most to comment on veganism, Most vegans seem to believe they can save the world with their diet and can be very evangelistic and militant in promoting this, which can be very tiresome.

It completely beats me why they believe veganism to be much better for the planet. Avocados, Almond Milk, coconut milk, soya and so many other seeds, nuts, pulses, fruit and other vegan related items have to be imported, often out of season and as with avocados need vast quantities of introduced water or the clearance of rain forests.

Compare that to a dairy cow grazing on pasture with the milk and cheese available locally

generally I would say that if you want to do you bit, where possible buy at a local outlet locally produced food in season. I recognise that is not always possible, but I am not pretending to save the world with my diet. If you are a planet saving vegan you really need to hold yourself to much higher standards than the rest of us and much of your diet won’t do that

tonyb

Gregory Woods
Reply to  tonyb
April 13, 2022 7:48 am

I wonder what else requires the clearance of rain forests?

Mr.
Reply to  Gregory Woods
April 13, 2022 8:14 am

Coffee.
Ban that at your peril.

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Gregory Woods
April 13, 2022 9:37 am

Windmills, solar panels…”biofuel” crop farming…

Old Man Winter
Reply to  tonyb
April 13, 2022 8:12 am

Thanks for your vegetarian insights. I grew up on a dairy farm where
you made sure you ate enough at each meal so you wouldn’t be hungry
before the next meal- it was impractical to get a snack. Meals were
always hearty- meat & potatoes w/vegetables & gravy. In cold weather,
you ate more for the extra energy to stay warm. Eating was a priority!

We butchered our own beef, pork, & chicken, as well as any fish & game
we got. We also raised a lot of potatoes & had two large gardens,
along with apple & plum trees & a variety of wild berries & hazelnuts.
With a smokehouse, canning jars, wine jugs, etc., this made all of the
food quite tasty & one of my joys in life (& it shows! ;)) For me,
being a vegetarian would have caused me more stress than any health
benefits I may have gained doing it. To each, his own!

BTW, I bet having more variety of beans that are good sources of
protein & minerals makes it better for you vs 50 ya. Thanks again.

kenji
Reply to  Old Man Winter
April 13, 2022 10:37 am

I worked ONE SUMMER on a Klamath Falls, OR hay ranch. I was 18yo and in the best condition of my life. I moved sprinkler pipe. Yep … most every day in the HOT SUN … walking through calf-deep mud to move hand-set sprinkler lines. Yep. A white suburban kid doing massive physical labor … moving 3″-30’s and 4″-40’s OMG!

Our noon meal was literally like Thanksgiving every day. I have never eaten so much in my life. Huge breakfast, lunch, and dinners. And I LOST 20lbs that summer. I came home and was able to easily run the rim-trail at my local reservoir – 12 mile run up and down hills so steep you could hardly walk them.

After that … I decided I wasn’t tough enough to be a farmer and hustled my ass into a college classroom.

Jyrkoff
Reply to  tonyb
April 13, 2022 8:49 am

For a lot of us it has nothing at all to do with saving the planet.

Some of us are ethical vegans and don’t like how animals are treated. I personally can’t pretend I’m saving any animals by being vegan. They’re gonna be killed and I can’t stop that. So it’s not about ethics; I use non-food animal products like leather, wool, and (oh my God, silly vegans!) yes beeswax.

It’s more about my own body and physiology. Red meat and pork tend to sit in my stomach and not digest, so I quit those. I can’t find fish that’s not risky, or chicken that doesn’t taste like a wet rag, so I just quit meat altogether. I used to eat tons of dairy and gluten, but it stopped agreeing with me. So rather than take some pills or some drug to let me eat dairy, I just stopped. The gluten, something I ate with almost every meal, started giving me gastric issues and then severe migraines. So I quit that as well. Soy is bad for my guts and I quit that.

I certainly am not looking to “replace” those things with fake meat or nut milks. As you point out, those things don’t come with an ecologically cheaper price tag. I don’t drink fake milk and I don’t eat fake meat. I tried the fake meats. Sure, a few are quite similar to meat, but who cares? They put so much crap into them to simulate meat that they become in some cases less healthy. Skip! And faux milks all too often have inflammatory gums like carageenan, making them no option for me. They hurt me as bad, or worse, than dairy or soy, and often are loaded with sugar– which I avoid.

Imagine a vegan who doesn’t eat tofu. Or fake meat. Or fake milk. It’s not to save the world or be better than anyone else. It’s just what my body likes, and millions of other plant eaters have come to the same place as well. It’s just not that weird to eat only plants.

Only Americans seem to have a mental block in place that prevents them from understanding how a person can survive quite well and be perfectly healthy and functional eating no animal products.

Derg
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:02 am

I do but meat is yummy.

Mr.
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:39 am

Fragile little petals, aren’t we ?

kenji
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 10:39 am

I’m an ethical meat eater. I like how they taste. And since good taste = ethics … well

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 2:01 pm

I’m glad you’ve found a diet that works for you. For some people,
animal products don’t work for them at all.

My one beef with vegetarians, organic people & animal rights
fanatics is they almost always have no experience farming &
are totally clueless as to what it all entails. This same
idealist stupidity led 60s hippies to think recycling was new
never realizing they were several millennia too late!!!

The reality is that farming’s both very labor & capital intensive
& you must be profitable enough to stay in business. It’s that
simple. This alone shoots down most ideas of what people think
farming should be. Good practices usually means making more
money & bad ones, making less money.

The way most farmers accrue enough money to retire is through
renting/selling their farm & selling equipment as the profits
through the years aren’t that good. Farm produce has an
inelastic supply/demand curve which means the value of their
commodities only goes up when less is produced in total & the
opposite when more is produced in total. Everyone’s always
trying to produce more despite more being less which benefits
us shoppers.

A century ago, farmers were very diverse & relied on several
things working good enough to get them through. Now, there’s
too much outside money looking to get farm subsidies that
probably did more to destroy the family farm & promote
specialized corporate “industrial agriculture” than anything
I know. Since most produce comes from these larger farms, they
can drive out smaller farmers as subsidies put a floor on
losses & they have deep enough pockets to survive. I’m leery
of what they do, too. The only hope is that they use good
practices that profitability pushes them to do.

Whether or not antibiotics, hormones, etc., are really bad for
me, I don’t know. Both health & climate are two areas with
a lot of advocacy vs just the facts. Some people I know will
buy certain foods only at certain places because they think
off-the-shelf isn’t that good. Since they’re sensible people,
they may be right. I’ve always gotten good food o-t-s so I’m
going with that until it doesn’t work.

I have some of the same concerns these people have but am not
concerned about things that aren’t even problems at all.

John Dilks
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 4:48 pm

There are more than 300 million of us Americans and we are not a homogeneous group. However, some people keep believing that we are.

Kevin McNeill
Reply to  tonyb
April 13, 2022 1:01 pm

Almond milk isn’t milk, it’s nut juice, think about that the next time you have a glass.
Shortly after getting my Covid booster, I developed a kidney infection (relationship between the two unknown) however, as part of that problem I couldn’t stomach cooking or eating steak. In fact, for a period of time I couldn’t stomach eating. Did wonders for my weight. Now, I eat meat but not steak and mostly veggies and for some unexplainable reason I’m not as hungry as I used to be. My wife hates it, hasn’t had a steak in months.

jeffery p
April 13, 2022 6:54 am

It’s been clear for decades that global warming/climate change is not a scientific concern but a political one.

Just ask any greenie. While they may start with talking about the climate they quickly move on to equity, redistribution, social justice, ending capitalism, etc. It’s Marxism plus EU-style global governance wrapped inside the self-styled noble cause of saving the planet.

Rico Suave
Reply to  jeffery p
April 13, 2022 9:04 am

I agree completely. The green environmental front is just the fig leaf over the Marxist “naughty-bits”, as Monty Python would have said.

Alexander Vissers
April 13, 2022 6:55 am

Try to grow a potatoe in Greenland and Lapland or live on a litmus diet, soon you will understand why the Inuit and Laps live on a carnivorous diet.

Jyrkoff
Reply to  Alexander Vissers
April 13, 2022 7:58 am

They live on that diet out of necessity, not because of some general notion about such a diet being “better.” The only correct diet is the one that works for you, and since you are different than me, your diet cannot always work for me. Or anyone else. And, sadly, it’s not a 100% meat diet. Humans cannot live on only meat, we will die. We need at least some carbohydrates. Some folks say as little as 5-10% of our intake must be carbs.
In a warm climate, people eat all sorts of things because that’s what’s available. Our teeth show us that we are equipped to deal with all kinds of food, from meat to grains. Because we’ve been omnivores for much of our evolution.
Speaking of cows, how does a steer reach 1,000 pounds eating only green grass? Is it because plants are devoid of protein and nutrients?

jeffery p
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 8:17 am

Your body needs a lot fewer carbs than you might believe or than government agencies claim.

(Notice the word needs.)

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:03 am

Great comment! I always thought vegans were overly self-righteous
to condemn people over their diet as many people globally don’t
have any food but meat- Inuits, Japanese & Norwegian fishermen,
people in forests, etc.

Buffalo were grass fed & grew big as do cows which are usually fed
grain for more marbling- fat- before butchering. Horses “under the
plow” were fed grain for extra energy & protein. Clover was
introduced into Europe to augment the grain in their diet, especially
when grain crops failed. It’s just when they work that they need
what grain has.

Last edited 1 month ago by Old Man Winter
Richard Page
Reply to  Old Man Winter
April 13, 2022 12:54 pm

Grain is also a more energy rich food than grass – essential for working animals that can’t spend 8-12 hours a day grazing.

Old Man Winter
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:48 am

“you are different than me, your diet cannot always work for me”

Another great point! Since the early 70s, high-carb diets were the
rage. I never dieted but I did eat a lot of carbs which worked well.
My sister tried them & they never worked as she felt lethargic.
When high protein diets came out 20 years ago, they worked & she
had a lot of energy. I would’ve probably had a better chance of
survival where carbs were available & she where protein was. I’ve
never heard of genetics ever being discussed when considering a
diet, as it could be an important factor.

Philip
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 10:01 am

They live on that diet because they chose to live in that environment. Not out of necessity extent of that choice.
Cows, ruminants, reach of a size because they have chambered stomachs which allow them to get the most out of grasses and herbs. You’re not a cow, nor a ruminant so your diet choice isn’t comparable for the sake of argument.

lee riffee
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 2:26 pm

I can answer your question about the cow…cows are obligate vegans. Every part of their digestive (including the teeth and jaws) system is dedicated to gleaning everything possible out of the plants that they eat. They have specialized molars to grind and pulp vegetation and they have an extra “stomach” (the rumen) to extract even more nutrients that are very hard to get at. And then there is the chewing of the “cud” to “milk” (sorry, bad pun) the food for all it has.
Basically a cow is a very highly efficient processing system for low quality food sources. Obligate herbivores are able to extract nutrients from plants that omnivores cannot. Not saying we don’t get nutrients from plants (which we do and we need) but we are no where near as good at processing it.
We can process meat very easily (as can other omnivores and obligate carnivores) but meat takes no specialized digestive system to efficiently process.

But OTOH, did you know that even an obligate carnivore like a cat will also suffer severe malnutrition if only fed muscle meat from animals? Some people think they can feed a cat on canned tuna, but there aren’t enough of the nutrients it needs in pure protein. Most obligate carnivores need to eat other bodily tissues, like organs, fat, brain and bones to get everything they need. So a cat can live on mice, but not canned tuna (or any other kind of muscle meat).

Neanderthals were highly carnivorous (much more so than even the most meat-loving modern humans) but, like cats, they would have eaten organs, fat, brain and bone marrow of their prey. Possibly a modern human could live like that, but most people would blanch at the thought of eating the heart, liver, brain (and a lot of fat and marrow) along with their chicken patty or steak!

Old Cocky
Reply to  lee riffee
April 13, 2022 3:43 pm

Neanderthals were highly carnivorous (much more so than even the most meat-loving modern humans) but, like cats, they would have eaten organs, fat, brain and bone marrow of their prey. Possibly a modern human could live like that, but most people would blanch at the thought of eating the heart, liver, brain (and a lot of fat and marrow) along with their chicken patty or steak!

That takes me back, I grew up on a mixed farm (mostly sheep/wheat) so we used our own meat supply. One of the great treats was kidney, heart or brain along with our chop for breakfast.

Liver seems to be a luxury item in some cases (e.g. pate de foie gras), as do fish eggs.

Graham
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 2:36 pm

Ignorance is bliss .
Your statements show that you do not understand very much about cows .
Cattle can grow to well over a tonne on grass so you think that grass would be a good diet for people ..
Cattle sheep and deer have four stomachs and use enteric digestion to break down the cellulose in grass and other forage crops that is indigestible to humans .
A small amount of methane is released as the microbes in their digestive systems break down the cellulose.
The microbes multiply rapidly and are the major food source for the animals as they pass through their four stomachs.
The green blob have vilified farmed animals for their methane emissions and so many politicians have swallowed this lie .
Farmed livestock are carbon neutral as all forage consumed has absorbed CO2 from the atmosphere and the very small amount of methane released during digestion breaks down in 8 to 10 years into CO2 and water vapour .
The anti meat and anti dairying lobby can eat all the vegetables they want but they have no right to stop other people from eating meat and milk products .
99% of our farmed cattle sheep and deer in New Zealand are well looked after grazing on green pastures .
We have very strict laws around the slaughter of our animals .
New Zealand exports a large amount of meat and milk to many countries around the world feeding 25 to 30 million people.

John Dilks
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 4:56 pm

That steer’s digestive system is designed to process that grass and extract the nutrients. Our digestive system can’t do that with grass. But, I can eat the vegan and get those nutrients.

Rud Istvan
April 13, 2022 6:56 am

This whole ‘green’ vegan thing is because ruminant digestion produces methane. Two very simple ‘killer’ points:

  1. Neither hogs nor poultry are ruminants. So greens and vegans are terminally confused about the biology.
  2. Methane as a GHG is completely covered by water vapor in the relevant IR frequencies, so can have NO actual GHE. So greens and vegans are terminally confused about the physics.
Jyrkoff
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 13, 2022 8:08 am

The “whole” thing is not about methane at all. Who told you that? Green vegans also look at the water quality effects, such as from hog farms. They’re a huge problem that the pork industry has had to admit is hurting water quality for a lot of people.

The other concern is the amount of land used for grazing that they think should be used for plant food production. Also, the amount of feed crops we grow, like corn, that is given to animals instead of humans. It’s the steps involved, where we devote land to growing feed that we give to animals that are on more land devoted to ranching. The idea is that we could be using the land for human plant food and “re-wilding” the spaces we use for animal grazing.

I can’t say I’m so fervent as a vegan. We get a bad rap, but my ethics say that as long as I didn’t kill the animal, I bear no guilt as I did not cause it any harm. “Supporting the industry” is a silly notion because if I stop buying meat, the meat company won’t notice. They have a million customers, my few bucks won’t be missed. For me, it’s mostly about diet. I have a leather belt, a leather wallet, and wool clothing. If non-vegan food is on offer, I surely would be dumb to turn down free food merely because it has a little chicken or butter in it.

A lot of “vegans” are like me. We know full well our diet does not save the world. We know full well that we’ve not “saved” any animals from slaughter or done some saintly act by switching to plants. We’re not vegans to be “green” but rather because our bodies and our physiology responded well to it, and so we stuck with it.

Please do not paint us all with the same stereotypical brush. It is unfair.

jeffery p
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 8:21 am

If you look at ranches in the American West, you see huge amounts of land are used to produce beef. Can’t we put that land to better use?

No, that land is not suitable for farming. Huge amounts of land are needed for grazing because of the sparse edible vegetation. Ranching is the only suitable agricultural use for that land.

Last edited 1 month ago by jeffery p
Bruce Ranta
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 8:47 am

Cattle grazing land used to be grazed by bison. Without a lot of grazing, short grass prairie ecosystems get ‘sick’. There are studies that show it is a big mistake if cattle are removed from large acerages in North America and not replaced by bison.

Bruce Ranta
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 10:09 am

Most ranch land is not desert. I often hunt on a cattle ranch in Alberta that is over 60 Sq miles in size. It’s in the Palissar triangle, technically not a desert but very dry. Ground on the uplands carpeted in prickly pear cactus in spots. Too dry to farm, except in the river valleys, which are irrigated.

Graham
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 10:09 pm

Hi Kip I think you might have got that wrong .
I met an Aussie run holder from South Australia and we got talking .He said he was a cattle man and had 180 hereford cows and sold off the progeny each year .
I then asked him how large was his run and he said it was 180,000 acres .Yes that,ts right 1000 acres to run a cow and her progeny and all young cattle were sold to other farmers on better land and better rainfall to fatten .

Derg
Reply to  jeffery p
April 13, 2022 12:35 pm

Windmills 😉

Mr.
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 9:56 am

So why stick any label on yourself like “vegan”, if you just eat what you like to eat?

I don’t like kale or offal, but I don’t feel I have to label myself as a “no-kaler” or a “no-offaler”.

It’s like all the labels people put on themselves these days to advertise what they like to do with their privates to other people.

I mean, as long as they’re not harming anyone else, who cares?
And why do we need to know about such proclivities?

Climate believer
Reply to  Jyrkoff
April 13, 2022 10:19 am

“Please do not paint us all with the same stereotypical brush. It is unfair.”

“Only Americans seem to have a mental block in place…”

… now about that unfair stereotypical painting…

AGW is Not Science
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 13, 2022 9:42 am

Not to mention cattle are CO2 emission neutral, because the grass they eat would otherwise die and emit…CO2 as it decays.

Old Cocky
Reply to  Rud Istvan
April 14, 2022 1:08 am

So bacon and eggs is carbon neutral?

Matthew Sykes
April 13, 2022 6:57 am

We will eat turnips. while they eat steak.

Who was it said you need a revolution every ten years? One of your guys wasnt it?

He wasnt wrong!

Richard Page
Reply to  Matthew Sykes
April 13, 2022 12:59 pm

Thomas Jefferson? “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

John Dilks
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 5:14 pm

Is there a difference?

Joao Martins
April 13, 2022 6:57 am

We ARE already on a “plant based diet”: either we eat plants directly or we eat plants processed by cows and other mammals.

ResourceGuy
April 13, 2022 7:51 am

That also amounts to a challenge for agenda media and agenda science to work (manipulate) harder.

Study: Vegetarian Weaver Birds are More Sociable than Their Insect-Eating Counterparts | Sci-News.com

DC Cowboy(@dccowboy)
Editor
Reply to  ResourceGuy
April 13, 2022 1:24 pm

Hitler was a strict vegetarian, doesn’t seem to have made him more ‘social’.

Peta of Newark
April 13, 2022 7:56 am

How did it get so crazy..
1/ Humans are not plant eaters, because we have small acidic stomachs. There is No Way we can eat the amount of plant material required to sustain us. Andas most Plant material is – Cellulose (Fibre/Fiber), not only does it go straight through us but that fibre attaches to and carries away huge amounts of what low nutrition there was there to start with.

2/ Blindingly obvious once its pointed out, ‘plant eating’ comes with the unavoidable risk of eating soil.
OK, the organic part of that (IF you can find any reasonably organic soil any more on this Earth) is primarily bacteria and it was not = stinky anaerobic soil, those bacteria are actually, mostly harmless and even Good For Us (some of them make Vitamin B12)
But the other part of the soil, the rocky mineral part, while containing good things (Magnesium, Sodium Copper Manganese, Lithium, Cobalt etc) also contains many metals that are incredibly toxic.
And the acid in our stomachs will solubilise those metals and we will be poisoned by them.
Hence why the official plant eaters of this world have pH neutral stomachs – the toxic metals will remain bound to their Anions and go right on through.

3/ (The Bombshell)
Us humans are not really any great Carnivores.
This whole meat eating ‘thing’ is based on an insane misunderstanding, on fashion, political correctness, nice-ness, not nice-ness and its just crazy through and through and through

Humans are Lipivores. We are Fat Eaters
And not just any crappy old fat either. NOT oil, oils as might be found in plants.
We operate (best by a VERY long shot) off of eating burning full-on saturated fat – the sort of fat you find inside warm-blooded animals
Unfortunately, obtaining that fat (apart from taking milk off lactating mammals) involves killing the animal,
But while we’re ‘in there’ animals contain some intensely nutritious stuff – stuff that due to fashion, political correcetness, snobbery and perceived niceness, are routinely discarded.

Hence my opening assertion – How crazy can this get?
We go to sooo much trouble rearing and keeping what animanls we do and ‘when the time comes’ we throw away all the very best bits from within the animal and selectively eat what, in even modest amounts, is toxic
We throw away the liver, kidney, brain, blood, bone-marrow and most especially, try to remove every last vestige of fat.
Leaving only the high protein flesh which, eaten even in moderation, destroys your kidneys and liver. We really have gone stark raving looney mad.

(Protein, by definition, contains Sulphur and Nitrogen. If we overeat, that stuff moves into our bowels where it rots anaerobically – producing some truly hideous poisons and even before the bacteria which do that ‘job’ are the angriest sons of bitches you ever want not to meet)
Such is the fate of almost all our pet felines. Under the illusion that they also are carnivores, we feed them far too much protein and hence why 80% of pet cats die from kidney failure.

For more info, go find the series of interviews Naomi Whittel (she’s selling something but who ain’t these days) did called The Real Skinny on Fat

Archer
Reply to  Peta of Newark
April 13, 2022 8:21 am

I was with you up until the cat part. Cats are obligate carnivores. Their guts are proportionally far shorter than ours, so their waste doesn’t hang around in the bowel for very long at all. The reason they have such high rates of kidney failure is because most cat food is stuffed with sugar and grains and seed oils, whilst lacking essential nutrients that keep their kidneys and liver healthy; and because so much of it is dried, meaning they don’t get enough water. I’ve not lost a single cat to kidney failure after switching to a grain-free diet and making sure to serve any dried food with water.

Archer
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 14, 2022 1:31 am

Well then, maybe they’re just predisposed to it after centuries of domestication? Wouldn’t be the first time.

ThinkingScientist
Reply to  Archer
April 13, 2022 11:50 am

Archer, agree with you about Peta comment and fat part. The research on this is starting to appear now and people are realising that high saturated animal fat, low carbon diets actually are good diets for humans. It’s also logical given farming and agriculture are very recent changes for us a species.

Glad I always ate what tasted great and have always felt strong, fit and full of energy.

jeffery p
Reply to  Peta of Newark
April 13, 2022 8:59 am

I have no idea of the numbers, but millions of people have followed high protein diets for decades with no ill effects on their kidneys or liver.

As for our felines, how many of their natural prey are fat? Most wild animals are pretty lean.

I will be the first to concede that just because a species evolved to eat a specific natural diet, it does not necessarily mean that is the healthiest diet for that species. I will also concede that most of what nutritionists and other “experts” teach us about fat is just plain wrong.

I will even go so far as to submit that IMO, much, if not most, mainstream diet and nutrition advice has little to no scientific basis. But I’m not sure you Naomi Whittle has all the answers, either.

lee riffee
Reply to  Peta of Newark
April 13, 2022 2:54 pm

The problem with cats is that they have evolved to eat all of their prey, not just the muscle meat. When a cat kills a mouse or bird, it eats the whole thing (less the feathers for the bird). There are nutrients in the organs (and yes, fat), bone/bone marrow, and brains that are necessary for cats to eat.

Archer
Reply to  lee riffee
April 14, 2022 1:32 am

My cats usually only eat half the thing. The other half is left under the couch.

Morton Leslie
April 13, 2022 8:08 am

The New Zealand meat industry processes around 25 million sheep and five million cattle every year. On average, New Zealanders consume 10.6 kilos of beef, 3.7 kilos of sheep meat, 18.7 kilos of pork and 40.6 kilos of poultry meat per capita in this year. That doesn’t include fish or an occasional shrimp on the barbie either.

Mr.
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 10:03 am

The earliest Kiwis even liked eating their enemies.

BallBounces
April 13, 2022 8:08 am

It would have been better if the IPCC summary contained more nuttiness, not less.

jeffery p
Reply to  BallBounces
April 13, 2022 8:24 am

Just like a Snickers bar.

jeffery p
Reply to  Kip Hansen
April 13, 2022 11:51 am

No, not really. Snickers was the first candy bar I could think of that has nuts.

So what’s the term for people who deliberately eschew Snickers bars? I’m anti-nougat.

fretslider
April 13, 2022 8:15 am

Morticia Ardern. Not to be confused with blackface Trudeau.

TonyL
April 13, 2022 8:18 am

About diets:
In a world which still struggles to feed everyone. vegan diets do not cut it.
I will note here for the record that some people claim that the world produces ample food, overall. This may be true, but it shows that here as in many other areas of endeavor, logistics is key. Food must be moved from where it is to where it needs to be. Failing this, producing what is needed nearby to where it is needed is your go-to option.
For any type of agriculture, animals play an important role. An agricultural sector which excludes all animal products, as the vegans would have it, is of necessity, suboptimal. Why?
Simple, many domestic animals convert things we can not eat into things we can, with excellent nutritional results. The ruminants are particularly useful in this regard. Cows turn grass into a host of dairy products, plus hamburger. Cattle are our big beef producers. Pigs will eat most anything and convert it into *Bacon*. Chickens easily supplement their grain diets by foraging for bugs all day long. And so it goes.
Any optimal agricultural solution involves animals.

“Next time you meet a New Zealander, a Kiwi, shake his hand and thank him . . .
Maybe they have delayed the nutty demand that “everyone must be vegan” nonsense from the IPCC.”

Not sure it is such a big favor. Were the IPCC to endorse a vegan diet as the “One True Way”, the publicity would be awful. They would have marked themselves as fully in the camp of the the worst of the most radical of the loony left found on any university campus. For many people, this would be a torpedo below the water line of the IPCC’s credibility.

Pat Frank
April 13, 2022 8:19 am

not changes for themselves, but only changes to be forced on every other common man and woman.

In their private conversations, the Davos illuminati probably agree that they can’t continue their rich lifestyle unless everyone else is poor.

It’s not that they’re that stupid. It’s that their delusion of homo superior cannot be maintained unless everyone else is poor.

TonyG
April 13, 2022 8:43 am

“sustainable healthy diet” is an easier sell than “plant-based”, but there’s no difference if “sustainable healthy diet” ends up being defined as “plant-based”

Petit_Barde
April 13, 2022 8:54 am

“balanced sustainable diets” … could they have had Jacinda in mind ? I mean … in case of a starvation, could Kiwis resign themselves to eating horse meat ?

Philip
April 13, 2022 9:23 am

All the fanatical minorities scrambling to influence non group members lives because… be like me or die!

andic
April 13, 2022 9:53 am

I don’t read it like that. The key word is sustainable and “everyone knows” meat isn’t sustainable. It’s an attempt to disguise the agenda that is all.

HOJO
April 13, 2022 10:36 am

If I had that many sheep on my islands I would change the language as well Green is the largest agenda fest ever created to bring man down to a commodity

jeff corbin
April 13, 2022 11:00 am

Without animals it takes a lot of oil to grow plant food unless of course you compost, which is what we do in our land fills and sewage treatment facilities. Fertilizer has to come from somewhere. I have spend the past 20 years growing 30% of my food budget in a cost effective manner because I love what I grow and because it saves me money and gives me meaningful exercise. Yet I need my chickens for eggs and fertilizer. Chickens are the best composters in the world. The money I save growing my own fruit, grain and vegetables I use for buying high quality meat from local framers in PA. There is plenty of marginal land in PA…. if people would get back to work and get off the make work on line tread mill and fill the hillsides with goats, sheep and cattle, there would be an abundance of fertilizer and awesome grass fed meat for much of the east coast. Love animals and eat them!

Albert H Brand
April 13, 2022 11:28 am

No one mentions Blood type. The book entitled Eat Right for your Blood type comes to mind. I for one am allergic to shell fish and became so at the age of 45, exactly 45 years ago. In that book it lIsts what is right for B type as I am and mentions shell fish as a food to avoid. On the other hand my wife is type O and she just loves shrimp. I enjoyed crabs when I was young but no longer. This is why we should eat what works for us.

jeff corbin
Reply to  Albert H Brand
April 13, 2022 1:08 pm

Hey Al happy 90th! I loved crabs and oysters in the 70’s the quality and the size is not as god as it once was. As I have aged, if have drifted to smoked fish and squid… Italian style.

ThinkingScientist
April 13, 2022 11:36 am

See how many get this reference (after Kip didn’t get the Small Soldiers and blowing up transformers one on the other thread)

Chicken isn’t Vegan?

jeffery p
Reply to  ThinkingScientist
April 13, 2022 12:34 pm

How about eggs? How can unfertilized chicken eggs not be vegan? Is it how the chickens are raised? Not every chicken is raised in a factory farm. Eggs are full of B vitamins.

Dave
April 13, 2022 11:40 am

Well, this article sure has given me a lot to chew on…

Mike Smith
April 13, 2022 11:43 am

I like meat. I like fish. I like veggies. I like fruit. And I like a varied diet.

A varied but balanced diet is a very healthy diet.

As far as I’m concerned, case closed. Those who wish to follow vegan or other fad diets can knock themselves out. But don’t try and convert me to your specific brand of dietary religion/cult.

Bruce Cobb
April 13, 2022 12:02 pm

I’m on a cake-based diet, being a caketarian. All kinds of cake, too, like Baked Alaska, which sounds impossible, but it works because of the meringue on the outside, which insulates it. Crazy, I know. My favorite person in history is Marie Antoinette. She really had the right idea. Pie is good too, in a pinch. Especially on Pie Day.

Izaak Walton
April 13, 2022 12:10 pm

I am impressed at how Kip can contradict himself in two consecutive sentences and not seem to notice. Look at:
The most interesting thing about this report is that it shows how clearly the wording that appears in IPCC Summaries for Policy Makers are based on politics and not on any underlying science at all. The brave Kiwis, supported by India and Kenya, forced the IPCC to stick to science”

So which is it is? Is the IPCC summary based on politics or science?

Furthermore do you not think that NZ might have objected to the phrase “plant based” because of the fact that a substantial proportion of its income comes from its dairy industry? It is clearly playing politics with the report as much as the amorphous “ Davos crowd” are.

Also it should be clear that “plant-based” does not mean vegan. It just means that most of someone’s calories should come from plants and meat should be eaten sparingly. And again all of the evidence shows that such a diet is healthier than one that is high in meat.

Derg
Reply to  Izaak Walton
April 13, 2022 12:32 pm

“ It just means that most of someone’s calories should come from plants and meat should be eaten sparingly. ”

Lol…should indeed.

Peter Fraser
April 13, 2022 12:16 pm

There must be a disconnect between NZ IPCC negotiators and this Davos orientated Govt we are saddled with. Their intention is to reduce our livestock herds by legislation ‘to save the planet’

Mike Lowe
Reply to  Peter Fraser
April 13, 2022 12:46 pm

…and, apparently, to return us to an earlier age when you were either the victors or the vanquished. With both sides engaged in a celebratory feast but in distinctly different roles!

Bob
April 13, 2022 12:25 pm

The IPCC has outlived it’s usefulness and so has the United Nations for that matter. Time to dismantle them.

Mike Lowe
April 13, 2022 12:31 pm

May I, a Kiwi naturalised from London 60 years ago, accept the congratulations on behalf of many other New Zealand readers of this fine website. I have no knowledge of who might have suggested this modification of the IPCC nonsense, but I congratulate them. That may have been a the result of involvement in the meat industry, or more likely the result of some indisputable common sense which most here exhibit. A very few, less so!

John Laurent
April 13, 2022 1:11 pm

As a kiwi I am happy to accept any congratulations that come our way. On behalf of our countrymen.

But don’t think the New Zealand government is any less nutty than the rest of the western progressive liberal democracies.

We are masters of virtue signalling and pretending to do our bit to undermine our economies while propping up the green sham. Our lefty government has committed our largest industry, dairy farming, to a up to 47% reduction in methane emissions (read cow numbers reductions) by 2050. Also we have cancelled oil and gas exploration offshore and closed local coal mining while at the same time importing record amounts of coal from Indonesia to keep our electric cars running.

Graham
Reply to  John Laurent
April 13, 2022 3:06 pm

Well said John.
Someone in the New Zealand contingent stood up for common sense at the conference .
Our government is quite a mess with a toxic mixture of Labour supported by the nutty greens and pandering to the demands of the Maori Party .
New Zealands carbon emissions from fossil fuel are very low but 50% of our emissions are calculated to come from agriculture . METHANE
The biggest scam ever .
When over 80% of our agricultural production is exported to other countries how does New Zealand get lumbered with all those so called emissions ?
Does the oil and gas producing countries account for all their exports ?
Of course they don’t

Simon
Reply to  Graham
April 13, 2022 11:04 pm

“Labour supported by the nutty greens and pandering to the demands of the Maori Party.”
What are you talking about? The Greens and the Maori party are not part of the current government. The Greens are contiually moaning that Labour are not doing enough. Seriously, you need to keep up.

Last edited 1 month ago by Simon
Graham
Reply to  Simon
April 14, 2022 2:58 pm

Simple Simon back with your inane one liners .
Of course the Greens are always trying to destroy the New Zealand economy .
Fortunately there are one or two Ministers in government that have been in business and have some brains .
One example was the carbon forestry farming fiasco thought up by James Shaw and his dumber than dumb mates that is the tail that wags the dog.
They wanted to buy up good farmland and plant it in pine trees that would never be harvested .The theory was that our native trees would gradually take over .
I have written about this before and I have said it is a loony idea and would lead to wild fires in the future and would close down whole rural communities as there is no work once the trees are planted .
A great way to bankrupt a country reducing exports and many jobs .
I was pleased to hear Stuart Nash a government Minister speaking on radio on the Country Session program .
He had worked for New Zealand Forest Products so he knew what he was talking about .
He said ‘carbon farming will be a disaster as the pine trees blow over and die and they will burn ”
I am pleased to see that there is at least one minister with brains in government

Graham
Reply to  Simon
April 14, 2022 5:02 pm

James Shaw is the climate change minister and leader of the Greens .
But not in government ? Who is conning you?

Simon
Reply to  Graham
April 15, 2022 3:00 pm

Haha, you may be a kiwi but you are clueless about the way government works here. People jump into bed with whoever, whenever it suits them. Let me highlight how rediculous and out of touch your comment was. The Maori party have not been in coalition with anyone lately, except …. wait for it…. National in 2011. Oh dear that makes you look silly doesn’t it?
And to further ruin your day the next (odds on) prime minister Christopher Luxon has this week just announces that he is concerned about climate change and is committed to honouring all NZ’s commitments in this area. Owch….

Derg
Reply to  Simon
April 15, 2022 3:08 am

Russia colluuuusion 😉

jeff corbin
April 13, 2022 1:18 pm

I was raised vegan in the 1950’s and 1960’s. My Mom was Hindu. I was kicked out of the house at 17 after I hunted squirrels and ate them. I managed a Vegetarian Restaurant in Richmond Virginia for a couple of years and know how to cook vegan. The restaurant was full of religio-vegans. I never liked Hinduism and converted to Christianity at age 35 and have been eating meat since I was a child when I could sneak it, but I have never eaten a lot of meat simply because there are so many other things I like to eat in addition to meat. I do love leg of Lamb at Easter.

VEGAN Means: nothing animal based…. no leather, no animal oils or fats, no eggs, no fish, no anything even bugs. Vegan is totally non-animal. Think fabric shoes and belts and scrutinizing everything you eat or put on your body to see if there is anything animal in it. Veganism is a religious/ethical stance. Veganism is not about self improvement and health Vegans are not necessarily healthy… they get heart disease and diabetes and die of old age like anyone else. My Mom was vegan and had diabetes and died because of diabetes.

DC Cowboy(@dccowboy)
Editor
Reply to  jeff corbin
April 13, 2022 1:57 pm

/pulls up soapbox You can make a case that eating properly raised meat, like grass fed pasture raised beef, and omega 3 enhanced chicken, pork, & lamb, & eggs from pasture raised chicken, as part of your diet is far healthier than a vegetarian or vegan diet. It’s arguably better for the environment (if you accept that concept) as you do not have to plow up the ground or run tractors all over the pastures to grow pasture raised beef. Vegetarians have a vey hard time getting some of the essential fats that meat, especially Beef, provides, like CLA. The iron in animal blood/flesh is far more absorbable than the iron in plants so you have to eat a lot of beans to get the equivalent amount of iron. Pasture raised beef is superior nutritionally to the mass produced, grain fed version primarily because of the Omega 6 – Omega 3 ratio. A Hopkins study a few years ago pointed out that any concentration of O6-O3 higher than 4-1 was associated with an increase in heart disease, diabetes, certain cancers, and other debilitating diseases. Most grains have a very high O6-O3 ratio, corn has a 20-1 ratio, and, as a result so does grain fed beef. Grass fed also has a higher concentration of Stearic acid, a saturated fat that is actually good for you as it reduces LDL (grain fed & plants have a very low Stearic acid concentration). Why did big Agra switch to grain fed vs pasture raised? Several reasons, among them less land use and grain fed beef matures to market in 3 years vs 5 years for pasture raised. I swtiched to eating only grass fed, pasture raised beef about 5 years ago, I’m now 71 and my blood pressure is excellent (120/65), my glucose is around 70, LDL cholesterol is below 90, and I have no heart arterial issues. Grass fed is not the sole source of my good health, and I eat a lot of vegetables (but I restrict my veggies to low O6-O3 ratio, like Broccoli, Spinach, Bell Peppers, etc). Prior to switching to grass fed beef, my BP was much higher, LDL cholesterol was close to 150. I’m not religious about this and everyone is entitled to eat the diet of their choice, I’m just offering my experience. /gets off soapbox

jeff corbin
Reply to  DC Cowboy
April 14, 2022 1:34 pm

I totally agree. I eat less meat so i can afford to eat free range grass fed meat. I am not a vegan but I was raised a vegan so I know what it is. I am a big advocate of filling the marginal lands with meat producing animals because there is a huge demand and prices are way too high. I am also well aware of the importance of the meat based lipids and nutrition. I think my Mom’s metabolic issues were in part due to her religiously strict veganism.

jeff corbin
April 13, 2022 2:02 pm

New Conventional Wisdom: do the radical opposite of what IPCC recommends and you will make out like a bandit.

Raise animals for meat, mine your own coal and natural gas LOL In the Fingerlakes region in NY some of the farms had their own natural gas wells..

It’s time for families, and local communities to fill up the local marginal lands with goats, sheep, chickens, alpaca, large meat rabbits, hogs, and cattle to export at top dollar the worlds best free range grass fed meats. There is enough marginal lands to raise animals in the US glut the world with meat. Those lands used to be pastured by local hard working families before McMansionvilles, malls TV and consumerism took over and hard work was relegated to immigrants or machines. Just think …no payroll FICA, no IPCC, no supply chain crapola, no colluded commodities prices, no pandemic, no supermarket…. just a river of Primo meat in local economies. People don’t eat money, they eat meat. It hardly costs a dime to raise meat on marginal land. The kids next door raised 30 goats from goats that were given to them without a vet or meds, built the shelter from scrap wood, milked them, butchered them, cooked them and ate them…. grass is the best solar power in the world.

My Grandfather in Iowa raised 500 head of cattle for market every year in the early mid-20th century.. He bred and raised them himself and grew all the corn, grain and hay they ate without any machines or electricity… only Him, his hired man and two sons and at team of 6 German Grey Horses which he also bred. He made more money selling 5-6 work horses a year than with 500 head of beef…because America was glutted with awesome well marbled top grade beef that hardly exists anymore unless you buy it form local farmer.

Now all we have is a glut of folk who are addicted to devices and have no idea what it means to work.,,,, smartphone serfs ask questions should I be a vegan….. I can’t afford meat?

Talk about hard work making your own tofu that might be worth it. 1 lbs of soy beans makes about 1,5 lbs. of tofu, a pound of tofu has 37 grams of protein, at 50 bag of soybeans is about $18 which would makes 75 lbs of tofu x 37 grams of protein. This is enough protein to sustain an adult 55 days for $18 and a gas burner going for about 20 hours.

Eamon Butler
April 13, 2022 3:04 pm

There is a whole new breed of pseudo vegies/vegans, who like to eat ”pretend meat” This is clearly the result of very clever commercial manipulation of the gullible, virtue signalers.
I know some Vegans, who, in fairness, live very healthy and true to their convictions of ”no meat” The idea of going into a McDs to buy a ”Vegetarian burger” is completely against their principles.

David Wolcott
April 13, 2022 3:15 pm

Wow. It’s the first time I’ve felt good about being a New Zealander in a long time.

Peter
April 13, 2022 5:04 pm

Simple test. Look at the number of elderly. Ask them about diet, exercise, work, etc. I am a retired doctor. In 40 years, I never met an elderly Vegan, buff fit or other. Ever.

They all ate a balenced diet, meat, veg, fruit, carbohydrates including sweats, a small amount of alcohol. And almost all were mildly overweight, except in the last few years.

I started asking after an article in the AFP journal.

drednicolson
April 13, 2022 5:31 pm

Fruits (less so) and vegetables (more so) have natural pesticides and other repellant chemicals that are designed to prevent the “wrong” things from eating them. Classic example is capsaicin, the “hot” in hot peppers. It’s to the pepper plant’s advantage for the majority of its fruit to be eaten by birds, who are not effected by the capsaicin. They spread the seeds through defecation over a wider area.

Potatoes and other nightshades contain lectins in the skins and flesh that poison insects and other underground pests. They can also irritate the systems of larger creatures if eaten green and/or to excess. Other varieties have their own little drug labs of nasty stuff waiting for you and your stomach.

Kelvin Duncan
April 14, 2022 1:01 am

There was an element of self-interest in this since much of New Zealand’s agricultural production is free range grazing by cattle and sheep on land that cannot be used for anything else, except growing trees perhaps. Take it from me, snow tussock ain’t much good as food for people!

Old Cocky
Reply to  Kelvin Duncan
April 14, 2022 1:38 am

There does seem to be an assumption that all meat animals are grain-fed, and rangeland grazing appears to be a foreign concept.
For those who don’t know, the returns are far better growing crops than grazing livestock.

Having said that, there are still quite a few people who prefer to retain something close to the native flora by grazing at moderate stocking rates rather than ploughing up the grasslands to grow crops. They are then demonised for the methane emissions.

Craig W
April 14, 2022 4:38 am

Having observed several vegans & vegetarians first hand … they are very flatulent!
Greenhouse gas bags if you will.

Brian
April 15, 2022 8:29 am

Kiwis may not have been entirely altruistic in thier motives. Turns out NZ grows grass better than nearly any other place on Earth. Now, you an I cannot eat grass, and trying to be a profitable exporter of grains on a scale as small as NZ is neigh impossible, but there is one easy way to work up grass into a profitable export. Turns out tasty animals love to eat grass.

Brian
Reply to  Brian
April 15, 2022 8:38 am

Appropo of turning grass/inedibles into food, USA, if we had sense, would propose more meat as a climate mitigation stategy. Lots of land in the USA is marginal for foods crops and is used badly/inefficiently. Convincing USA to ranch more sheep and goats on our marginal lands would be a far better use of territory than fertilizing and watering the crud out of a bunch of clay to grow corn.