Comprehensive European Study Finds Warmer Climate Periods Do Not Lead to More Conflict, War

From the NoTricksZone

By P Gosselin on 27. March 2022


Analysis of 1000 years of European wars finds that more war and conflict are not linked to warm climates.

One of the scare stories used by the global warming alarmists is the claim that climate extremes produced by manmade climate change will lead to greater strife and more bloody wars.

Hat-tip: Klimaschau

But that assumption is not holding up so well according tot eh results of a new study by Carleton et al: “A Song of Neither Ice nor Fire: Temperature Extremes had No Impact on Violent Conflict Among European Societies During the 2nd Millennium CE“.

The authors looked at the last 1000 years of bloody conflict across Europe and compared to how well the matched up to the climate extremes between the years 1005 – 1980 A.D.

FIGURE 1. Time series data used in this study. Where available, we include confidence intervals for the climate data (middle three panels) and those are represented by lighter grey ribbons. Source: Carleton et al 

The authors compared a well-known annual historical conflict record to four published temperature reconstructions for Central and Western Europe.

What did the authors find? Did they find that warm climate periods led to bitter conflicts and so we’ll be sorry if we keep driving climate warming SUVs?

The results surprised the usual doomsayers. Warmer climate periods did not lead to more conflict and wars.

The authors sum up their findings:

Our results indicated that none of the temperature reconstructions could be used to explain variation in conflict levels. It seems that shifts to extreme climate conditions may have been largely irrelevant to the conflict generating process in Europe during the second millennium CE.”

For many of us, this of course comes as no surprise. Wars are simply caused by those in power lying and deceiving their people into hating and fighting, like today.

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jeffery p
March 28, 2022 6:04 am

But this time, it’s different!

Bob Tisdale(@bobtisdale)
Editor
Reply to  jeffery p
March 28, 2022 6:18 am

You’re darn tootin’
we’ll blame Vlad Putin.

Regards,
Bob

My apologies to the old Fig Newton commercial.

jeffery p
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 28, 2022 9:28 am

I’ve been around a while, but you got me on that one, Bob. Right over my head.

John I Reistroffer
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 28, 2022 9:44 am

Hi Bob,

You’re a poet and don’t even know it!

Dave Fair
Reply to  John I Reistroffer
March 28, 2022 10:56 am

… but his feet show it, they’re longfellers.

That also goes back aways.

Fraizer
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 28, 2022 10:35 am

Now do the Chiquita Banana song

Bob Tisdale(@bobtisdale)
Editor
Reply to  Fraizer
March 28, 2022 11:25 am

I’m Vlad Putin and I’ve come to say.
F__k, Joe Biden. I’m going to stay.

Regards,
Bob

Duane
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 28, 2022 5:43 pm

Go back to Russia, Ivan

Bob Tisdale(@bobtisdale)
Editor
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 28, 2022 7:13 pm

PS: And for those who don’t remember the Chiquita Banana commercial:
Chiquita Banana The Original Commercial – YouTube

Now, what I wrote above in reply to Fraizer’s request should make sense.

Regards.
Bob

Michael S. Kelly
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 29, 2022 10:23 pm

Cultural appropriation!

James Bull
Reply to  Bob Tisdale
March 29, 2022 7:34 am

What was the old joke about the Soviet Union Tourist Board slogan

Come visit the USSR before it visits you!

James Bull

David Elstrom
March 28, 2022 6:09 am

Could have determined this without a study.

Oldseadog
Reply to  David Elstrom
March 28, 2022 6:19 am

But what would Carleton et al have done with their time if they hadn’t done this study?
Gotta keep them off the street corners you know.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Oldseadog
March 28, 2022 10:58 am

Its just a way to get rid of all that excess money government has laying around.

Last edited 1 month ago by Dave Fair
Streetcred
Reply to  Oldseadog
March 28, 2022 2:48 pm

We should be happy that their idle pens found need to ‘study’ this and at the same time debunk another climate griff. 🙂

Last edited 1 month ago by Streetcred
LdB
March 28, 2022 6:33 am

Totalitarian despots deciding to exploit pathetically weak presidents obviously causes more wars.

Duane
Reply to  LdB
March 28, 2022 7:57 am

Like Trump, for example, including his furious efforts to undermine and destroy NATO and all our other military alliances from 2017 to 2021, when Trump was mercifully fired by the American people. Putin obviously accelerated his schedule of attempting to conquer Ukraine knowing that NATO was at its weakest point, and was only going to get stronger over the coming years with Trump no longer trying to kill NATO.

Obviously. at least to non-idiots, if Putin thought NATO was going to grow weaker in the coming years, he’d have put off his attempted invasion.

Last edited 1 month ago by Duane
Derg
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:14 am

Duane get back on your meds.

Duane
Reply to  Derg
March 28, 2022 5:44 pm

Talking to the mirror again, we see

Citizen Smith
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:21 am

Duane, You seem a bit confused by TDS. Let me help. Trump wanted other NATO members to quit freeloading off Uncle Sam. He did question the value of the organization. He also questioned the purchase of Russian gas by its members.

Fred Middleton
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 28, 2022 9:21 am

100% – Europe does not pay their own way. Should be paying 140% – with 40 paying the United States – length of payment 100 years. Europe has never paid a rightful share of WW2 costs.

Tom Foley
Reply to  Fred Middleton
March 28, 2022 5:04 pm

The cost of WW2 to Europe was immense – all those destroyed cities and civilian deaths. Whether the cost was their ‘rightful’ share is another matter, especially for the countries which were invaded and the innocent victims of the holocaust.

Duane
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 28, 2022 5:45 pm

“TDS” is the term used by deranged MAGAs to describe normal, non-insane and patriotic Americans.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 4:36 am

The Leftwing Propaganda is strong in this one.

Sunsettommy(@sunsetmpoutlookcom)
Editor
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:23 am

That is false since it was Trump who convinced NATO members to INCREASE their funding support in the first place not only that Trump and his administration placed many sanctions on Russia some that hurts them a lot.

Brookings Institute made a post showing all of the Sanction 52 of them on Russia.

On the record: The U.S. administration’s actions on Russia

NATO Chief: Trump calls for increased spending is having an impact

Duane
Reply to  Sunsettommy
March 28, 2022 5:50 pm

You are lying, as obviously Trump convinced nobody in NATO to do anything but ignore Trump and pray that American voters would come to our senses and fire his ass, which we did in 2020.

It was Obama who convinced NATO to increase defense spending to the present objective of 2+% of GDP way the hell back in 2014 – for those of you who don’t do math, that was 3 years before Trump entered office.

I’d say “nice try” but yours is actually a lying lousy try to subvert factual reality with Trumpian fantasy.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 4:37 am

Duane has it completely backwards. Typical for a lefty.

Richard Page
Reply to  Tom Abbott
March 29, 2022 8:47 am

Actually neither Obama nor Trump convinced any countries to increase spending on NATO. The one and only difference between spending now and before Obama is that Poland has increased its spending to 2% gdp all other countries are about the same – a few like UK, USA and Canada are spending above that amount, the rest (apart from Poland now) are spending below it. As per usual, Duanes figures are either completely reversed or pure fantasy.

John Tillman
Reply to  Richard Page
March 29, 2022 7:09 pm

Canada?

Current percent of GDP spent on defense is 1.39.

UK, just barely 2.00%.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Richard Page
March 30, 2022 5:09 am

“Actually neither Obama nor Trump convinced any countries to increase spending on NATO.”

Try Google

https://www.heritage.org/defense/commentary/nato-allies-now-spend-50-billion-more-defense-2016

NATO Allies Now Spend $50 Billion More on Defense Than in 2016

“In 2016, non-U.S. NATO members spent $262 billion on defense; in 2020, they will spend $313 billion. Regardless of whether this increase resulted from changing threat perceptions, or Trump’s laser-like focus on inadequate defense spending, or of some combination of the two, the results speak for themselves. The $50 billion increase is equivalent to the entire defense budget of France.”

end excerpt

It doesn’t say anything about Obama increasing NATO defense spending. I think Duane just made that up in his head.

Sunsettommy(@sunsetmpoutlookcom)
Editor
Reply to  Duane
March 31, 2022 5:17 pm

Haw haw haw you are disputing the NATO Chief here,

“President Trump has been very clear. He is committed to NATO … but at the same time he has clearly stated that NATO allies need to invest more,” Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said on “Fox News Sunday.”
{mosads}He noted that NATO members have agreed to increase their defense spending contributions across the board, which he argued has strengthened the alliance.

“So we see some real money and real results, and we see that a clear message from President Trump is having an impact,” Stoltenberg said. “NATO allies have heard the president loud and clear.”

=====

Next time try reading the link I posted since you are looking foolish here.

Citizen Smith
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:27 am
Tom Abbott
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 29, 2022 4:38 am

Duane doesn’t want any help, his mind is already made up.

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:34 am

Got it all backwards again, you truly are deranged regarding Trump. He is far from my favorite but it was clear to me at the time he was using threats to pressure Nato to up their spending, which many Europeans now agree he was right..

Counterfactual to state he really was going to pull the USA out of Nato

Brad-DXT
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 10:20 am

The expression we use around these parts – “Trump was right again”.

Duane
Reply to  Brad-DXT
March 28, 2022 5:53 pm

Trump has never been right about anything, except when he declared that his MAGA brain dead supporters would vote for him even if he shot someone dead on Fifth Avenue in NYC. He was right about that … but you MAGAs don’t get it that the joke is on you.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 4:39 am

See you in November, Duane.

Timo, Not That One
Reply to  Duane
March 30, 2022 5:57 am

One question Duane. Is the US or the world better off since Br@ndon took office?
Enjoy your next trip to the gas pumps.

Gary Pearse
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 11:22 am

” He is far from my favorite but…”

Yes, the left seems totally incapable of being objective about the obvious good having been done by someone who blew away their icons and dug into the old stuff, measuring if these things were the best for his citizens (harmful trade deals, punitive layers of regulations that held back the economy, productivity and job growth from the private sector).

The country does best with someone who sees no issue or setup that’s too big to fail. He did more to earn a Nobel Prize for resolving a100yr seemingly intractable barrier to Middle East Peace than all the laureates of the past 75yrs (that he didn’t get the NP is probably a terminal blow to the crumbling woke-corrupted institution itself). Alfred Nobel was a free enterprise innovator for chrissakes.

Yeah Trump is not a guy that I would consider for a buddy, but this seems to be what the world needs for getting back to reality in the policy field. Among the woke tribe it’s a feely thing. Trump didn’t kiss babies or asses. He actually was his own worst enemy with his blunt force stream of conscious, ad hoc pronouncements – every second word a trigger to the safe place minions.

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 28, 2022 11:46 am

He was his own worst enemy and could not get out of his own way long enough and so is no longer president.
He could have done so much more with a bit of focus

Ruleo
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 2:59 pm

Stolen election buddy.

Duane
Reply to  Ruleo
March 28, 2022 5:56 pm

You are literally insane

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 4:56 am

Somebody is, but I don’t think it’s Ruleo.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 29, 2022 4:52 am

Nobody is perfect. Name one person who would do a better job than Trump.

And consider that Trump was and is under constant attack from the Left, so how would you react to constant attacks? Trump shoots right back at them. Some people don’t like that. I happen to love it and want more of it, and maybe I’ll get my wish in the not-too-distant future.

And we are still trying to determine why he isn’t president right now.

Some people claim the loss is because this or that, but they all may be wrong. He may not have lost at all if the vote were honest, so all those theories should be thrown out the window as pure speculation.

Trump currently has a 98 percent approval rating among Republcians. While he was president, he had an 84 percent approval rating among Republcians.

Trump is more popular now, than when he was president. His political rallies are pulling in tens of thousands of people every few weeks.

Don’t count Trump out yet.

Nobody would be better for the nation and the world than Trump. Anyone who can’t see that is blind to reality.

The Democrats are not counting Trump out yet. That’s why they are still constantly attacking Trump at every opportunity. But Trump is attacking back. He’s suing Hillary Clinton and the Democrat Crime Syndicate for their Russian collusion lies, and there is a federal prosecutor who is out there indicting Hillary’s minions and working his way to the top. Stay tuned.

A Trump win would be so delicious. It would be TDS on steriods for Democrats. It would be Heaven on Earth for me.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
Matt Kiro
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 28, 2022 2:10 pm

From accounts I’ve read, Trump is actually a very good friend and generous. But is almost too trusting of people , most of the people he put in place at the start of his term were not solidly enough behind him though, and now he takes any criticism or questioning too personally, especially in terms of the 2020 election , Which is not a good thing. Yet I still think he can be forgiving if you can get him alone and explain your position.
He has too much of a following not to be the nominee in two years unless something drastic happens.

Streetcred
Reply to  Matt Kiro
March 28, 2022 2:54 pm

I’d also go after Clinton and her cohort for russiagate … personal enough for me!

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Streetcred
March 29, 2022 5:02 am

Trump filed a lawsuit against Hillary and her minions over the Russia collusion lies last week.

Duane
Reply to  Matt Kiro
March 28, 2022 5:57 pm

Whatever you are smoking please send it to Vlad Putin

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Matt Kiro
March 29, 2022 5:01 am

“From accounts I’ve read, Trump is actually a very good friend and generous.”

Trump is a nice guy to his friends. I’m a nice guy to my friends, too. But if someone comes up and starts lying about me, I’m not going to be friendly towards that person at all.

That’s what Trump does: He treats his friends wonderfully, and he excoriates his critics. Just like anyone else would do. The Left doesn’t like it, but the Left doesn’t like anything Trump or any Republican does, so they are not an unbiased arbiter of what should or should not be done.

Duane
Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 28, 2022 5:55 pm

You don’t get it … it wasn’t the left that fired Trump in 2020 .. it was the sane center of America that could no longer stomach Trump’s lies, treason, and willful ignorance.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 5:04 am

Your theory is noted, Duane. There’s about as much substance there as there is for human-caused climate change, i.e., no substance.

Richard Page
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 12:39 pm

Duane get’s everything backwards and looks like he reads maps upside down as well. Last week he switched the sizes of Ukraine and Russian armies around and never even noticed.

Duane
Reply to  Richard Page
March 28, 2022 5:57 pm

Certifiable you are

Richard Page
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 8:49 am

Yoda you are not.

Duane
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 5:51 pm

You MAGAs are all literally insane, living in your own special fantasy world wher facts do not exist, only you butthurt MAGA feelings.

TonyG
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 6:54 am

I’m curious, Duane. Are you even capable of rational discussion or can you only engage in insults and name-calling?

Nevermind, I know the answer. Just wondering what insult you’ll hurl my way.

Dan Sudlik
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:37 am

Ah yes, all the wars will the Trumpster was President.

Trying to Play Nice
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:37 am

The TDS still runs strong in the idiot’s minds.

Duane
Reply to  Trying to Play Nice
March 28, 2022 5:58 pm

Only idiots talk about TDS, not realizing it is they who are deranged

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 5:05 am

The TDS is strong in this one.

Citizen Smith
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 8:46 am

Some more video of that same NATO meeting. Trump was able to see the consequences of the German gas deal and warned everyone. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpwkdmwui3k

Duane
Reply to  Citizen Smith
March 28, 2022 6:00 pm

Obama warned Europe back in 2014. Trump only warned Putin that if he wants a free hand in America he’d better make sure to get Trump reelected. It didn’t work, alas for both Putin and Trump, Putin’s bitch.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 5:09 am

I’m interested in finding out what Obama and Biden were doing in Ukraine in 2014. Perhaps the new Republican Congress will enlighten us on this subject.

Do you have a link to that warning Obama gave Europe in 2014?

Of course, you don’t. You are just blowing partisan political smoke.

Alan
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 9:03 am

Yes. And, after 444 days, the Iranians released the American hostages, just as Reagan was sworn in. Because they were scared of Jimmy Carter.

Duane
Reply to  Alan
March 28, 2022 6:01 pm

Only an absolute moron would compare the idiot traitor Trump to Ronald Reagan

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 5:14 am

I would have to rate Reagan a little lower than Trump. Reagan did a very good job, but Trump did even more.

The big difference was Reagan was mild-mannered, and Trump is certainly not. That makes a lof of difference to some people, but I’m more interested in the results they get than how they handle the leftwing press.

ih_fan
Reply to  Duane
March 28, 2022 10:18 am

Obviously. at least to non-idiots, if Putin thought NATO was going to grow weaker in the coming years, he’d have put off his attempted invasion.

So what was Putin’s reason for invading and annexing Crimea? If memory serves, that happened while Joe Biden was in office, too.

Duane
Reply to  ih_fan
March 28, 2022 6:03 pm

Biden was not in office in a position that mattered. After all, Mike Pence did not do as he was ordered by Trump, ie to violate the Constitution in order to carry out a coup.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 29, 2022 5:21 am

What order did Trump give Pence that violated the constitution?

Trump said at his Georgia political rally last week that three days before the Jan. 6, incident, he offered to send Nancy Pelosi 10,000 National Gurard troops to surround the Capitol Bulding and keep it safe, and Nancy Pelosi turned down the troops.

And Trump didn’t mention it at the rally, but he offered the National Guard on more than one occasion before Jan. 6, and was turned down each time by Nancy Pelosi.

Does offering to provide 10,000 National Guard to protect the Capitol sound like something a man who wanted to overthrow the governemt would do? I don’t think so. It sounds to me like Nancy Pelosi was inviting trouble.

Marcus
March 28, 2022 6:41 am

 P Gosselin, wee typing error..

“But that assumption is not holding up so well according tot eh to the results of a new study by Carleton et al:”‘

Last edited 1 month ago by Marcus
climanrecon(@climanrecon)
March 28, 2022 6:45 am

Weather variations can be highly significant. For example the 1930s in Baltic states were relatively warm, did this influence the German invasion of Russia during WW2? Historians mention winter as a problem for the invaders, but they don’t mention that the winters in the early 1940s were especially severe:

comment image

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  climanrecon
March 28, 2022 8:31 am

I doubt warm caused WW2 but based on the previous decade its clear the Germans were not expecting the brutal winters they got 41-43 in russia.

Look at this conflict in Ukraine, looks like a pretty easy winter this year.

dodgy geezer
March 28, 2022 6:51 am

Not much point trying to persuade ourselves of this.

No much point trying to persuade anyone else either.

These are just stories put about to make it easier to force climate change taxes on us…

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  dodgy geezer
March 28, 2022 8:58 am

No, this story is that climate does not cause war.
Success
No taxes needed to prevent something that doesn’t occur

Earl Rodd
March 28, 2022 6:59 am

Strange thing is that many historians are now considering that climate was a big factor in the brutal times of the Black Death – a time when much of the world turned brutal in wars and persecutions and so forth. The thinking is that the cold, overly wet weather in Europe led to a decline in food supplies which left the population weak and more open to the Black Death. Both togethr turned the world brutal. But it was cold, not warm.

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Earl Rodd
March 28, 2022 8:29 am

Yes, plague always follows famine, as immune systems weaken.
Same as the Justinian plague at the end of the roman warm period, famine and plague weakened Byzantium and the Persians, the Arabs under Mohammad swept them away. Islam exists as the 3rd monotheism because climate change.

Mike Dubrasich
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 9:55 am

I respectfully disagree. The Plague spread when social conditions (trade, urbanization, population density) were primed for it. The weather had nothing to do with it.

Bad weather may have led to crop failures, but famine is a more complex thing. The decay of the Roman Empire with war and strife was a factor. Epidemic disease is weakly related at best

In any case, the claim in the paper that Earth or even Europe alone has experienced “climate extremes” over the last 1,000 years is utterly false, baseless, and inflammatory. The climate has been consistent. “Extreme” is a very poor word choice. It smacks of pandering to hysteria.

And the claim that any religion arose due to “climate change” is hogwash plus plus.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
March 28, 2022 11:23 am

Oh, Christ, Mike, you drank the Kool Aid. See my comment, above, and read some history books. The crap coming out of the corrupted paleo climatological community is CliSciFi at its finest. Read:

“The Hockey Stick Illusion” by Andrew Montfort
“Blowing Smoke” by Rud Istvan
“A Disgrace to the Profession” by Mark Stein

Only after reading those should you get back to us.

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Mike Dubrasich
March 28, 2022 11:54 am

Mike, everything is a factor. Gibbon was talking about the Western empire primarily. And famine weakens people and their ability to resist, the Justinian plague happened 800 years before the black death but they were one and the same yersina.
Both times it took off when the population was already in trouble.
Cold = Bad

As to Islam, in late antiquity it was still all about Rome and Persia, with arab tribes acting as mercenaries for both sides, but a series of wars depleted both sides, and the plague took the rest of the piss out of them, and then Mohammad steam rolled them.
100 years earlier and they would have been slaughtered.

cold-famine-plague, pretty standard history.

Dave Fair
Reply to  Earl Rodd
March 28, 2022 11:16 am

Wait a minute, Earl! The true believers the paleo climatological community tell us that prior to 1900 climate did not vary: No Bronze Age warmth, no Roman period warmth, no Dark Ages cold, no Medieval warmth and no Little Ice Age, just hockey sticks all the way down. They tell us that since the end of the Holocene Optimum, beginning about 5,000 to 6,000 years ago, the Earth was gradually cooling (the hockey stick handle) until Man came along, screwed everything up and caused their hockey stick blade beginning in 1900s. And Brandon knows what he is doing in destroying the U.S. fossil fuel industry.

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Dave Fair
March 28, 2022 12:08 pm

There are very few history books that relate historical events to climate, all my formative years growing up, learning about the Hittites, egyptians, romans, etc, you never learned that all catastrophic times were preceded by climate shift to cold.
The Romans were worn down by continuous pressure from the east. But why were people continually travelling west?
Here in canada we learn fragments of history but we don’t really hear why there was so much pressure to leave europe, and why the French were more than happy to ditch most of their north american holdings for one island in the carribean that produced sugar, but was because it was cold in canada, colder than europe, certainly colder than now.

The more i read it seems like history is actually all about climate?

Shanghai Dan
March 28, 2022 7:00 am

I think you missed the crucial takeaway:

Clearly, the military MUST be lead by climatologists so that we can predict when war will happen. This means the upper ranks of the entire DOD – all the way to the SecDef, and potentially the President as well – must be replaced with degreed climatologists.

Drake
Reply to  Shanghai Dan
March 28, 2022 11:05 am

They couldn’t do much worse than the Pentagon and Commander in Chief did in Afghanistan.

Richard Page
Reply to  Drake
March 28, 2022 12:42 pm

Wanna bet?

jeffery P
March 28, 2022 7:31 am

Everything is climate change now. Used to be ball bearings, now it’s climate change.

Doonman
Reply to  jeffery P
March 28, 2022 10:37 am

Don’t forget Plastics. When I got married they told me this.

Dave Fair
Reply to  jeffery P
March 28, 2022 11:24 am

No, it used to be plastics (The Graduate).

fretslider
March 28, 2022 7:43 am

Warm periods are – to the best of my knowledge – associated with the rise of civilisations. Minoan, Roman etc. During the Roman warm period the Roman province of Britannia was noted for its villas, baths and its vineyards. In the Roman world it was a province of import with a large compliment of Legions. 

Now unadjusted history tells us that the Roman warm period was around 2000 years ago.

For something to read on her flight home my better half bought a copy of The Economist along with other magazines. In The Economist I came upon an article: “Life in a cold climate”. Wherein the first paragraph sets the tone:

Britain is a damp, cold place and always has been. Two thousand years ago Strabo, a Greek philosopher, cast his eye over the island and didn’t like what he saw.

It is, wrote Jonathon Swift “Bloody cold”

The Economist, March 19th-25th 2022

Well, in Swift’s time it was cold…. that would be 1667 – 1745 Can anyone make a guess on why that might be?

As for the hysterical Strabo, he describes the British as being “bandy-legged” and presenting “… no fair lines anywhere else in their figure”. He goes on to describe the Irish in an unflattering light. Of Ireland Strabo says “its inhabitants are more savage than the Britons, since they are man-eaters as well as heavy eaters”.

The Economist is charging £6.99 for that kind of drivel.

Last edited 1 month ago by fretslider
Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  fretslider
March 28, 2022 8:26 am

Not charging me anymore, i let my subscription lapse this month after 25 years and i endured the flurry of emails and calls, kept telling them when they go back to reporting news and leave off defending the narrative of climate emergency i’ll be waiting.

DMacKenzie
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 10:32 am

They don’t care, Pat. They lost your subscription but they gained hundreds of choir members with their Thwaites and Conger potential ice shelf collapse story….and their continual BS that floating ice shelves somehow will raise sea levels 2 feet as the break up…..

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  DMacKenzie
March 28, 2022 11:55 am

Yes, but they no longer have MY money.
The guy on the phone got very uppity when i told him it was due to climate scientology, i think he had heard similar a lot.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 29, 2022 5:28 am

I would have liked to have heard that conversation. 🙂

Duane
March 28, 2022 7:43 am

Conflicts don’t always result from leaders lying, though that is a common occurrence in modern times.

Conflicts also happened when various peoples migrated around the world, and because of weaknesses that tend to develop over time in established cultures and their governance. Such as the fall of the Roman Empire and invasion by Goths … movement of Norsemen into continental Europe and the British Isles … and movements of the Mongols and Huns into western and southern Asia and eastern Europe. Great civilizations like ancient Egypt went through several periods of decline and acceleration of conflict and chaos, in periods between the Old Kingdom and Middle Kingdom, and between the Middle Kingdom and New Kingdom.

None of those things have anything at all to do with climate change, though climate certainly changed back and forth throughout the history of human civilization beginning about 10 thousand years ago.

Similarly, the conflict between Europeans and native populations in the Americas, Asia, Australia, and Africa was the result of a combination of new technology (better ships), social pressures (religious upheaval, and commercial desires for land, gold, silver, spices, etc.). The colonial period happened to straddle the Little Ice Age from the 14th century to mid-19th century. The World Wars of the first half of the 20th century were the bloodiest time for humanity in recorded history – yet they bookended a two decade warming period in the 1920s and 1930s.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Duane
March 30, 2022 5:31 am

Conflicts happen when a predator senses weakness in a pontential prey.

All the predators in the world sense Biden’s weakness. And they are on the move because of it.

Last edited 1 month ago by Tom Abbott
Thomas Gasloli
March 28, 2022 8:10 am

Of course the only “shifts to extreme climate conditions” occur at the shift from glacial-to-interglacial or the reverse, so there isn’t any historical data to review.

Pat from Kerbob
March 28, 2022 8:23 am

Something seems wrong here. I agree that warm periods are great, but cold periods clearly spell upheaval.

The LIA saw the black death, endless war, outpouring immigration, colonialism and imperialism.

The end of the roman warm period saw famine, plague, islam rose, etc.

End of the minoan was awful, read the book 1177BC.

Warm Good
Cold Bad

Pretty simple

Peta of Newark
March 28, 2022 8:43 am

I just did a comhenprsif sutdy.
epic it was an great news for somebody I’m sure.

Oh hi Boris, how’s things going in Saudi Arabia…….

News:The UK fleet of wind turbines (20GW capacity) as of 16:35BST today is producing 600MW of elekricteree

(six hundred megawatts)

Cue Loony Tunes music…
That’s All Folks

Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Peta of Newark
March 28, 2022 8:56 am

That much?
Wow, overperforming as Griff would say

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Pat from Kerbob
March 29, 2022 5:32 am

Windmills are such a loser.

This is the best our leaders can come up with. We are in big trouble.

commieBob
Reply to  Peta of Newark
March 28, 2022 12:09 pm

Oh come on now. 600MW isn’t nothing. It’s a whole 3% of capacity.

commieBob
March 28, 2022 8:49 am

What can be said is that people thrive much more in warm periods than in cold. Warmer is richer.

Alan
March 28, 2022 8:49 am

According to Edward Gibbon in “The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire”. He cites colder temps in northern Europe as one of the factors that lead to the fall of Rome. The colder temps drove the barbarians south into the empire.

Javier
Reply to  Alan
March 28, 2022 11:04 am

He also cited the moral decay of the Romans. Does the moral decay faster when the climate gets colder? There is contradictory evidence about this issue.

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Pat from Kerbob
Reply to  Javier
March 28, 2022 12:02 pm

Morality has a half life of 9 seconds

Richard Page
Reply to  Javier
March 28, 2022 12:56 pm

Your timeline is slightly off in that women only started wearing underwear like the first set around 1820-1850 ish. Before that, of course, well brought up ladies wore nothing at all under their dresses and shifts.
Oddly enough Roman women wore the same style of knickers as Roman men!

Bruce Cobb
March 28, 2022 9:18 am

Common sense, and history tells us that warmer periods are those in which mankind, and indeed life itself flourishes. Wars are nothing but a red herring.

Slowroll
March 28, 2022 9:29 am

Next, the climastrologists will be telling us that warming causes the heartbreak of psoriasis.

Brad-DXT
Reply to  Slowroll
March 28, 2022 10:29 am

And hemorrhoids.🤢

Dave Fair
Reply to  Brad-DXT
March 28, 2022 11:33 am

No, Brad, the climastrologists are the hemorrhoids. Where’s a giant tube of extra-strength Preparation-H when society needs it?

Bob
March 28, 2022 12:05 pm

This is good information, the knuckleheads we are dealing with are liars and cheats. You can prove them wrong all day. They are unaffected by our efforts. They say what works and when it doesn’t work anymore they move on to the next lie until it doesn’t work anymore. They are shameless and with the aid of the mainstream media they don’t have to answer for their dirty deeds.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Bob
March 29, 2022 5:35 am

That summed it up nicely, Bob.

Earthling2
March 28, 2022 1:36 pm

All the evidence points to cold being part of the historical reason for war and strife. Cold periods lead to upheaval and war, because of civilizations suffering a worse economy and food security. Warm periods lead to more prosperity/trade and peace, as things are progressing in favor for everyone. When populations in various countries are in disarray because of poor economy and food shortages caused by cold, is when we get more conflict.

The French Revolution would be one example, albeit there are alway dozens of factors that make up history. But just prior to the French Revolution, continental Europe faced a serious of devastating harvests due not only to the LIA and overall reduced harvests from cold, but complete harvest failures preceding the revolution which was caused by a series of volcanoes going off in Iceland that was contributory to reduced harvests in France and neighbouring countries. Hence the ‘let them eat cake’ just prior to the Revolution as the masses were hungry.

Not only local, but also global when a VEI 7 volcano goes off in Indonesia, like the 1815 eruption of Mount Tambora causing the year without a summer in 1816 over much of the northern hemisphere, or in 1883 with the eruption of Krakatoa affecting global agricultural output. Vulcanism doesn’t produce long lasting results overall, but can affect a growing season (locally or globally) which is all it takes for an early or late frost and the loss of cereal crops and other food production.

Just like Ukraine this year may not be planting much of a crop for other reasons, and already driving up food futures, although that is political and not climate related. If the good Earth is short on food next winter, then a sure bet for more civil unrest. Significant cold periods over wide geographic locations would do the same, but warming wouldn’t cause widespread agricultural reduction.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Earthling2
March 29, 2022 5:37 am

“Vulcanism doesn’t produce long lasting results overall, but can affect a growing season (locally or globally) which is all it takes for an early or late frost and the loss of cereal crops and other food production.”

Excellent point.

glenn holdcroft
March 28, 2022 6:32 pm

The media war is happening now between the warmists and the realists .
With children being scared of everything bad thats going to happen to them as they get driven to school in parents suvs playing with their smartphones and ipads .

GregK
March 28, 2022 11:35 pm

There have been suggestions that the English preferred to go warring in Europe after a wet summer as they seemeed to do better then.
Perhaps…

The rationale being that after a wet summer grain crops, especially rye, were more likely to be affected by fungi. A particular fungus affecting rye was ergot from which LSD was originally extracted.
After a wet summer rye bread eating continental infantry would be stoned out of their already superstitous brains on LSD, seeing witches, dragons and demons, and somewhat reducing their military effectiveness.

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-11-24-vw-242-story.html

Dean
March 29, 2022 12:19 am

Would have thought that warmer times meant more food and less stress.

Tom Abbott
Reply to  Dean
March 29, 2022 5:41 am

I think you are correct.

gmak
March 29, 2022 5:53 am

In other news, well-fed humans who are left alone to live their lives how they choose do not build guillotines.

Gregory Wrightstone
March 29, 2022 7:57 am

I would argue that conflicts were indeed much more during the period of the Little Ice Age (1250 – 1850). See it highlighted here.

War and climate.jpg
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