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There is ALWAYS some amount of fraud in elections. The questions here are did more than the usual occur, and can anyone prove it?
Since states control elections and many of those states have no intention of cooperating in the search for fraud, so it is doubtful much of it will be uncovered. It is unfortunate that one party seems intent on using fraudulent means to increase their margins at any cost to the integrity of elections. I hope I am wrong, but I think I will be proven right.
Mail-in ballots are a free-ticket to massive voter fraud. Was there massive voter fraud? – we will likely never know for certain. We should as a nation work to reduce fraud, but as long as a party in power (in any branch) benefits from it nothing will happen.
I am waiting for the Supreme Court packing that is about to start. They will likely add 3 or 4 new justices to the court in order to own that branch of the government as well. *IF* this occurs it will demonstrate that a party feels unconstrained in their grab for power. The good news here is the Senate has to confirm and that branch is not owned by the democrats. Maybe in 2 more years…
This election was lost by Trump – he just cannot shut up and act with maturity. I really cannot stand the man, but I can’t argue with many of his policies. A little self-control would have gone far.
Biden is a joke. We might as well have elected Harris. I honestly doubt Biden will not be declared incompetent per senility before the 4 years are up. At least it isn’t Hillary in office.
One good thing could still happen – the House might finally get rid of Pelosi as Speaker. It’s hard to imagine anyone who could do a worse job.
Robert,
By some I guess you mean something like 31 cases between 2000 and 2014. More recently people
found that you are five times more likely to be struck by lighting than for a ballot to be fraudulent.
Elections in the USA are done fairly and without widespread corruption. That is something to be
celebrated even if it means that your preferred candidate doesn’t get elected.
Supreme Court packing would require majority votes in both the Senate and House. It could happen, but is probably not likely.
Interesting days.
Of course the media has to call it for Biden and of course the Democrats must claim victory..
For time is not on their side.
As these results are scrutinized,this narrative will collapse.
Funny how,every so called outlandish claim made by President Trump about the corrupt actions taken against him and his supporters,has turned out to be true.
And every accusation made against him has not.
Accusations amplified and or manufactured by this very same media,that now demands we trust them.
Due process and proper investigation will reveal the same old meme.
Democrats Lying again.
I would have said Democrats and Media but I find it impossible to separate them.
For what kind of fools are so desperate for power,that they would destroy the foundation from which their ability to hold power comes?
The number of people voting is almost impossible,did every Democrat get two votes?
One by mail.
One in person?
This web site should stay out of politics and should devote itself to science.
First you need to have a clear separation between politics and science. Good luck with that one.
When the Klimate Konsensus Kult does, we will as well.
Politicizing it then complaining its political. Smfh. Giving a platform to every partisan stooge from Dellingpole to Driessen to nuts like Archibald. This site had never been about the science, if it was I wouldn’t need to come here.
That’s good, because you were never about the science, were you Loydo?
“This web site should stay out of politics and should devote itself to science.”
2 good ideas that this web site should adopt.
This web site should do whatever its proprietor wants. Leave it to big tech to tell people what to talk about.
Now that we’ve cleared that up, there is one thing on my mind that I am not seeing discussed. In the (unlikely) event that President Trump wants to go quietly off into the sunset, it is not likely that the people who have been sandbagging him for the last 4 years are going to let him. I look for some attempt to find criminal behavior that can be charged…. This will not be healthy for the country. We may soon see whether Mr. Biden is sincere about bringing us together.
Biden/Harris not my president. Stolen election. Will never forget this travesty by the Dems. What goes around comes around.
I voted Trump but we need to wait until it is over as of right now nothing has been certified.
Trump lost…..get over it
I’m thinking that’s exactly what will happen if he does lose. It’ll be quite the revealing sociological study if I’m right. You won’t see cities burn, for example.
Contrast this with what happened in 2016, when cities did burn, property (that wasn’t theirs of course) was destroyed, lawlessness and mayhem ensued from the progressive left when Clinton lost. The loving leftist hyenas were let loose, and the TRUE Leftist psychology of hate, always bubbling like a witches cauldron in the background of addled minds, boiled over. That’s when the irrationality started. And it never ended.
Hate breeds Stupid, and so we saw that Stupid raise its fist, gnash its teeth, and howl on November 3rd. No one voted FOR Biden/Harris, rather they voted AGAINST Trump. There weren’t enough supporters who loved Trump to overcome the hatred of the ilks of progressivism, even though it was close and more votes were cast in this election than ever before. A sad commentary but (more) proof of the irrationality of progressivism, this time not only as a logical system, but also in the very twisted psychology the philosophy brands with a hot iron into the minds of its adherents.
It’s an interesting but predictable irony that the Beautiful People should be overcome with the very emotion they decry in others. But these *are* Liberals. And this *is* the Hypocrisy of Liberalism.
If Trump loses, he lost to the pure, evil hatred of the progressive left and nothing more or less than this. Thankfully, some have seen the light and understand their own best interest is not with those who promote a philosophy pillared upon racism, sexism, class envy, and beating people with their fists, with sticks, bottles, etc., when they don’t get their way:
Trump Won Highest Share of Non-White Vote of Any Republican Since 1960, Exit Polls Show
https://tinyurl.com/y4q587jj
Trump’s strong Hispanic support befuddles Democrats, activists
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/5/trump-hispanic-support-growth-befuddles-democrats-/
When all is said and done, I predict blacks too will have voted for Trump in numbers not seen for decades.
Now, in addition to all of this GOOD news, there’s even BETTER news, 1) looks like the Senate is still ours, 2) we got some GOP girls coming in to help keep Biden/Harris who they always have been since this election started, Nobody’s:
Recruitment push fuels record number of women in House GOP
https://tinyurl.com/y4sobwyk
Rack ’em up and slap ’em down GOP ladies!
Good grief, only 87% of Democrats think Biden won the election. Now that’s telling.
https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/polling/media-calls-biden-president-elect-poll-shows-likely-voters-still-unsure-who
I see salty tears in your future.
Biden is as bent as a bad roofing nail, get over it.
Whoever cheats the best wins. It’s the American way.
Sad but true. The democrats tend to cheat downstream (push invalid ballots into the system by the millions), the republicans tend to cheat upstream (get people off voting lists, make poll lines very long etc). I always hear the same from both sides “Well they cheat more than we do” or “We have to cheat to make it fair”.
LMAO at the last one. That sums it up in one insane sentence.
Thank you Charles, Anthony, WUWT for this Open Thread to allow people to “vent” then, hopefully, take a deep breath and continue breathing normally.
(I’ve at least scrolled through all the comments so far. Everyone seems to behaving themselves! 😎
According to US constitution it is the state legislature prerogative to set the rules for selecting electors. This power includes the manner of elections, results of elections or accepting the chosen electors. No one, including the state or federal judiciary can interfere.
In the contested states, state legislatures are predominantly staffed by republicans. If they wish they can convene, nullify the elector elections (not the senate or the house elections) or if they wish appoint electors of their choosing. No one can say a thing if they choose one of these paths.
If GOP roll over and accept these controversial outcome, it is their problem. Blame no one else but GOP.
It has also been decided by the SCOTUS(Bush v Gore) that state courts CANNOT change election laws. When they do, it is necessary that the SCOTUS step in and correct that illegal change.
Interestingly, some state secs annulled the requirement for witness signature for mail in voting. Despite the local statue asks for it. MN is one of these states.
I believe SCOTUS will look at this unilateral breach of state constitution by individuals and require that (a) tossing out all mail in voting or (b) a new election be held in those states. Because the paper trail is now missing, recount is impossible.
Of course this legal remedy requires that local GOP asks for a motion in front of the SCOTUS> I am not sure if they will ever do it. They seem to be rolling.
They seem to be rolling.
Behaving normally, then.
It ain’t over till the blind lady sings!
Russiagate completely forgotten;
where are Brennan, Clapper & co now for PRChinagate on Biden?
NOTICE NOTICE
BREAKING NEWS
BREAKING NEWS ON THE ELECTION
THIS …… IS …… UNBELIEVABLE !!!
545,561 ballots marked for Donald Trump were discovered in Joe Biden’s basement. This may be the turning point for Trump. And we wondered why old Joe was spending so much time in his basement, getting a huge number of “packages” delivered by UPS, FedEx and Amazon. This was only discovered when a secret service agent was carrying a box downstairs and accidentally dropped it on the stairs going down to the basement. … maybe this was not funny to you, but my wife always compares me to that famous comedian Rodney Dangerfield: “Does anyone else tell you that you look like Rodney Dangerfield?”
Richard, you’re gonna get no respek, I tellya.
Only 545,561?
xtremely funny, like.
Here is a 2016 BBC article listing some of the signs of vote-rigging.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-37243190
Funny how Trump got more votes everywhere …except for four Democrat-run cities.
Funny how the same media that says the Russians fixed the last election say this one is fine.
Funny how the 50-centers are saying Biden won before the states have even certified the results, never mind checked for fraud. Trying to stampede the weak-spined into something, perhaps?
Thats what happens every 4 yrs . Withing a few days of 2016 vote , it was called for Trump and he was visiting White House to meet with Obama.
Very similar to now in that it was very close and 110,000 votes in 3 states decided winner. Not all votes had been counted then either .
Now its probably more than 110,000 votes and is 5 states ( but doesnt include Florida which was so much more electoral votes.)
Whatever happens it means that the next president will have a very weak mandate, with a rep congress and dem house but a bit less blue than before. Donald got a lot done, but not the one thing that would have really mattered: an indepth review of climate pseudo science led by william Happer. It was successfully obstructed by ‘powerful political interest’.
Ed
Without the cloud of probable fraud lifted for Biden, he will have no claim to a mandate. It all started with Pelosi saying “He isn’t MY president.” She established a precedent that all Trump supporters have a right to remind Democrats of.
“Without the cloud of probable fraud lifted for Biden, he will have no claim to a mandate. It all started with Pelosi saying “He isn’t MY president.” ”
Citation, please….
B.O.B The reference has been removed , but heres another US politician uttering them exact same words.
Maxine waters. https://youtu.be/Za5cLSQNbXE
An intemperate, hyperbolic, chant. Not by the speaker, not the official view, of ANY democratic group.
Seems like the push is to validate Trump’s conflation of personal loyalty to him, with his valid claim to be POTUS, until late 1/21….
As you rightly say it is a chant, as for the official view , it was a official who made the chant ,to a live and televised audience, it becomes official, unless you can come up with a official view that dismisses the former.
“it was a official who made the chant ,to a live and televised audience.”
Are you sure that you want to claim that what any elected official chants at a rally is the “official” stance of their party? Ponder before replying…..
Firstly B.o.b I never said she was elected did I, secondly you never answered my question in full, ( you need to ponder that) = were is the evidence that what she stated as a official was not the official line ,? Its a simple question.
And she has been elected for many years in the past b.o.b
Maxine waters was a elected official in the 35th district 2012,2014,2016, 2018.
So Bob she spoke as a elected official during the time of the video
So Bob because you put words into my mouth I never said,wrote, we find out maxine waters was indeed a elected official. Ponder that.
“were is the evidence that what she stated as a official was not the official line”
You don’t seem to understand how these things work. It is YOUR claim that Maxine Waters was was stating an official Democratic Party position. Not mine. Your claim, your burden of proof.
“”That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.”
Christopher Hitchens
Yes bob she was a elected official and she spoke officially, now you dont think she spoke officially do you, I do so the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise ,otherwise your talking nonsense, she was a elected official bob so what did I have to ponder? The fact you put words in my mouth? And undermined your ridiculous argument, like every democratic your wasting every ones time obfuscating the truth.
“Without the cloud of probable fraud lifted for Biden, he will have no claim to a mandate. It all started with Pelosi saying “He isn’t MY president.”
In the spirit of comity, I looked for this quote myself. This is as close as I could get.
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-trump-vetted-politician/
Please tell me more about your unbiased choices of periodical literature….
To quote a Jeremy Clarkson quip: “that’s not gone well”.
Good job of proving that regardless of the evidence, people will believe what they want to believe. The right will believe the election should have gone to Trump. The left will believe there is a “climate crisis”. No amount of data and evidence will matter.
Different data. Climate is based on small numbers over 30 years and juiced by climate models which ‘simulate’ future climates using models they dont understand
A vote is a vote is a vote. previous recounts only show a few hundred at most changes in the numbers for states with maybe a 1 million votes for a candidate.
Some people have the fantasy that some counties can have a new election and a revote. Not mentioned in constitution and yes there have been disputed electoral slates from states before. As both houses of congress validate a states EC vote, the only choice is to accept the result or reject it. Trump needs Pennsylvania while Biden doesnt
Biden knows?
Florida will be wet with tears.
The rule of law was destroyed in Poland. Don’t make this mistake in the US.
Four years will pass quickly.
The system itself looks incapable of properly dealing with fraud:
1) Timing is to short for a proper investigation
2) Shifting the burden of proof
3) Lacks enough quality control
Let’s start with shifting the burden of proof: a claim is made that “candidate X won the election” by the vote counters – usually the executive branch of the government. In normal scenarios it’s those that make a claim (especially – a legally important claim) that are obliged to prove it. But in the election process it’s the opposite – controllers of vote counting can just claim something. The elections system then approves it, unless someone outside of vote counters (eg unsatisfied candidate Y) proves the claim “candidate X won the election” to be false. Which is inappropriate not only because of the general rule of burden of proof, but also because the system doesn’t give candidate Y enough access to the data, and enough time to properly investigate.
Normal investigations of a complex fraud can last months of years.
Then there’s the quality control aspect. Since 20-th centaury we as civilization know that good Qality Assurance is necessary for things to work well. Like a circular process with a separate quality control team checking things out, finding flaws, returning to the product maker (a designer/engeneer/programmer if it is for design etc.) for eliminating errors, they eliminate errors, it goes to quality assurance again. Doesn’t enter the approved pipe unless it meet the norms. (Doesn’t mean it has to be perfect – eg. norms for some cheaper LCD displays allow some bad subpixels). In an election process you don’t have an infinite loop of QA, just some single recount perhaps even made by the same teams doing the first count (repeating their own errors).
This is a world shattering event, something it might never recover from. It’s possibly the greatest fraud ever perpetrated in world history.
This result emboldens Iran, unleashes the hostile politics and trade practices of the CCP, endangers Israel, puts another spanner in the Brexit negotiations. Not to mention the domestic implications for climate hysteria, renewables, over-zealous regulations and unfettered immigration.
I thought Trump would win and that the polls were gaslighting the people until I looked at the betting organizations who had Biden at 1-2 and Trump at 6/4 to 15/8. While the polls are usually incorrect, the bookmakers cannot afford to be wrong, it was then I realized the fix was in. The Bookies have contacts inside all the money moving entities.
Anyone thinking it can be put right in 4 years time is grossly mistaken. This mob will never release their grip on power from here on.
Something completely different. Suppose Biden expires before inauguration day. I’m 70 myself and well aware that that you are a man of the day, that tomorrow is not at all a certainty. Joe looks rather frail sometimes. Will Harris become president, or will there be another election? Or what?
Methinks Harris can’t be the president by default because if such would happen before the inauguration she is still citizen Harris and not the VP. Since the Don was voted out as it looks now, he could not continue. But perhaps Pence could until a new vote?
No, it would then be a case of no candidate receiving 270 electoral votes since dead winners cannot receive votes. That would throw the election of the president into the house per the constitution.
Now you can see how our constitution was so well thought out by our educated forefathers. It’s a pity so many uneducated public students call for the elimination of the electoral college.
Thanks to Diben’s victory, now the SRAS-COV2 is not dangerous anymore, despite tens of millions people dansing, embracing each other in crowded streets.
It seems even that it’s now possible to attend an indor concert with tens of thousands of people without any risk of being infected.
Conversely, attending to a Repuclican’s meeting or merely going outside to work or just a walk was very dangerous and millions of irresponsible people doing so has been infected putting at stake the national security.
Now, thanks to Biden, it’s all over !
Magical virus, magical Democrats !
/s
There is possibly a hint: I’ve heard of a Democrat mail ballot, that came in from a resident in Michigan who was born in ….
1832 !!!
With Ovomaltine, you don’t (vote) better … but longer! (a typical commercial here in Switzerland…)
Wow, just wow. The Voter Fraud Believers have the same amount of irrationalism and emotionalism as Climate Believers do. Amazing.
yep
Bruce, I think you’re a sceptic when it comes to CC. Does your scepticism end there?
There is a major problem with the mass fraud theory. In PA, WI and MI, you are talking about hundreds of thousands of fake votes that had to be created. To do that would take an operation of dozens of people at least. You would need storage, transport, printing equipment, communications etc, all of which must be kept covert. People are not known for keeping secrets, so something on that scale could not operate without someone letting something out, or leaving some evidence. Obviously there was fraud on some small to medium scale, but the size required to achieved those kinds of numbers is industrial scale, and something would have gotten out. Far more likely is that the mass mail out of ballots allowed a lot of people who normally wouldn’t vote to vote, and 4 years of MSM propaganda has brainwashed a lot of people to believe we should vote for someone because of how they talk instead of what they do.
Sorry about your view on the first amendment, but the rest of your comment is cogent. Multiply the number of folks that needed to keep that secret by 100 and you have the international Dr. Evil conspiracy to foist AGW theory on the rest of us. All in the face of the Trumpian YUGE rewards that would accrue to anyone who told that secret, with proof, I might add…
b.o.b.
There are no conspiracies necessary for people to be superstitious, to worship authority, or to uncritically accept what they are told by the Media. Roughly half the people in the US vote Democrat. No conspiracy is necessary to cause them to do so. Sometimes, schist just happens!
“There are no conspiracies necessary for people to be superstitious, to worship authority, or to uncritically accept what they are told by the Media.”
Rejection of MSM “tells”, is your right, but should be accompanied by credible alternatives. These are almost always AWOL. This, not any fact free claim of “worshipping”, is why. after due consideration, we tend to agree with the WSJ, Atlantic, NYT, etc….
b.o.b.
You said, “… we tend to agree with the WSJ, Atlantic, NYT, etc….” Speak for yourself. When I read something, I’m not swayed by who wrote it, but instead by if it makes sense and is supported by the facts that I’m aware of. Maybe your worshiping authority explains your left-leaning remarks.
“When I read something, I’m not swayed by who wrote it, but instead by if it makes sense and is supported by the facts…”
Apparently not. Fact checking is always a good idea, but you’re not doing it. Rather, you’re tossing out facts based on the fact that they are reported by that biased MSM. What “facts” do you and Rudy bring to the table on this Dr. Evil voter fraud conspiracy?
All hands on deck, both of you….
The big numbers come from election fraud, not voter fraud.
As shown in the video(s) from “Liberal Hivemind” and others, the central database server in Frankfurt, run by a company in Spain, is too easily accessible.
The under-votes can be ascribed the preferred candidate with simple change of query.
Not a lot of people needed to manipulate as many votes you dare to before the fixes may appear obvious.
This somehow reminds me of climate model and global temperatures for the globalists.
Each postal vote is checked against the voter database and the signature verified.
The same ballots that unexpectedly supported republican house and senate candidates also supported Biden
Did you know that NOT checking signatures, on a national level, was one of the items in one of the Schumer/Pelosi Covid relief bills?
How many states already don’t match signatures?
Each legal, eligible voter has a right to have one and only one vote (if they choose to exercise that right).
We need measures in place to ensure that each ballot is an on time legal vote.
Just a couple of examples of voter fraud convictions:
Those servers are reported to have been seized in Germany last night by the US Army over there.
Where do you see the problem?
1) It’s possible print millions of printed papers. Like printing books, money etc. in large numbers.
2) Postal service is capable of delivering millions of letters. Or even millions of parcels.
3) The cost of printing and delivering is not an issue in elections that cost literally billions of dollars for candidates.
4) If you don’t believe in people – a lot of processes can be automated in modern era.
Please check out Tammany Hall (late 1700’s) “Political Club”. Their vote fixing was legendary. The Chicago vote fixing machine of mayor Daley was epic. You underestimate their resourcefulness. Doing things at large scales has NEVER been a problem. They have 200+ years of practice fixing elections.
The old joke about north east democrats is “You can take the Democrats out of Tammany Hall but you can’t take the Tammany Hall out of the Democrats”.
Read up the history on what cheating was KNOWN to have been done by those 2 organisations. Do you think they turned a new leaf and decided not to cheat? The Democrat political machine can, and does, regularly shift hundreds of thousands of votes.
So trump has about 70million votes
School me please
How can all those voters put an economic squeeze on democratic interest