The Real Climate Debate

Reposted from the Cliff Mass Weather and Climate Blog

The real climate debate is not between “believers” and “deniers”.

And not between Republicans and Democrats.

The real debate is certainly not over whether global warming, spurred by increasing greenhouse gases, is a serious problem that must be addressed.  Both sides of the real climate debate agree on that.

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The real rebate is between two groups:

1.   A confident, non-political group that believes technology, informed investments, rational decision making, and the use of the best scientific information will lead to a solution of the global warming issue. An optimistic group that sees global warming as a technical problem with technical solutions.  I will refer to these folks as the ACT group (Apolitical/Confident/Technical)

2.  A group, mainly on the political left, that is highly partisan, anxious and often despairing, self-righteous, big on blame and social justice, and willing to attack those that disagree with them. They often distort the truth when it serves their interests.  They also see social change as necessary for dealing with global warming, requiring the very reorganization of society.  I call these folks the ASP group (Anxious, Social-Justice, Partisan).

There is no better way to see the profound difference between these two groups than to watch a video of the testimony of young activists at the recent House Hearing on Climate Change, which included Greta Thunberg, Jamie Margolin, Vic Barrett, and Benji Backer.

Jamie Margolin of Seattle talked about an apocalyptic future, with “corporations making billions” while they destroy the future of her generation.  Of feeling fear and despair.  Of a planet where the natural environment is undergoing collapse, where only a few years are left before we pass the point of no return, and where only a massive political shift can fix things, including the Green New Deal.  Watch her testimony to see what I mean.
Compare Ms. Margolin’s testimony to that of University of Washington senior Benji Backer.
Mr. Backer, leader of the American Conservation Coalition, a conservative/moderate group of young people supporting action to protect the environment, approaches the problem in a radically different way.  Instead of despair, there is optimism, recommending more scientific and technical research, a bipartisan attack on the problem, a rejection of an apocalyptic future, the building of new energy industries with potential benefits for the American economy, and a dedication to follow the science and not political expediency.  His testimony is here.
Both Ms. Margolin and Mr. Backer care deeply about the environment and want effective measures to deal with global warming.  Both their approaches and attitudes could not be more different.

We see the difference between the optimistic ACT group and the despairing ASP folks here in Seattle.

On one hand, there is the Clean Tech Alliance, which brings together technology companies, university researchers, and the business community to develop and apply the technologies that will produce the carbon-free future we look for.  Headed by Tom Ranken, the Alliance does a lot, including a highly informative breakfast series where you can learn about fusion power, new battery technologies, the future of solid waste recycling, and much more.  Non-political, optimistic, and exciting.  These are clearly members of the ACT group.
In contrast, there is Seattle’s 350.org group.  They are into climate strikes, staging protests (like their recent blockade of a branch of Seattle Chase Bank), trying to muzzle climate scientists they don’t like, advocating political solutions to greenhouse warming (Green New Deal), pushing divestment of energy companies, and even a Pledge of Resistance to stop energy exports by whatever means necessary.  Their “science” page has all kinds of extreme (and unfounded) claims regarding global warming impacts, like a sea level rise of 10 feet in as little as 50 years.  ASP group all the way.

I should note that the Seattle 350.org group and their “allies” oppose the Tacoma Liquid Natural Gas (LNG) Facility that will help replace the extraordinarily dirty “bunker fuel” used in ships traversing Puget Sound. LNG will also reduce carbon emissions. Scientists and regulators at the Puget Sound Clean Air Agency support the LNG facility.  But facts and protection of the health of Puget Sound residents are not priorities for highly politicized groups like 350.org.
A good example of the differences between the ACT and ASP folks is found in Washington State’s recent carbon initiatives.
Initiative 732 was backed by Carbon Washington, a non-political group whose bi-partisan proposal would have increased the price of carbon fuels but was revenue neutral, giving all the funds collected back to the citizens of the State.  Carefully designed and impactful.  The work of the ACT group all the way.

But the ASP folks were unhappy.  There was no money for their climate justice and political initiatives, so they opposed it, and were joined by Governor Inslee and the environmental left.  Unforgivable, nasty attacks were made on Carbon Washington leadership by the ASP folks.   732 lost.
The ASP collective decided it was their turn, so they created a Frankenstein carbon initiative (1631), with a lowered (less effective) carbon fee, but one in which climate justice groups and political allies on the left would have control, and were hardwired for much of the funds.   The main advertising line of the 1631 ads:  catastrophe was around the corner and the big oil companies were to blame.  1631 was an election day disaster, losing by 13 points, and the ASP folks have probably killed any hope for an effective carbon tax/fee in our state.

What about the media?  Which side are they on?  ASP or ACT or neither?
Much of the “mainstream” media parrots the message of  the ASP side.  The Seattle Times is a great case in point, with headlines of massive heat related deaths (750 die per event!) and catastrophic wildfire seasons that have no basis in good science.  But there are plenty of others, such as the LA Times and the NY Times.    There are some major media outlets that are more balanced (such as the Wall Street Journal).   A major issue for the media is the hollowing out of science reporting, with most climate stories being handled by general reporters with neither the time, background, or inclination to get beyond parroting the press releases of activist groups or evaluating the claims of speculative research papers.  It has gotten so bad that a recent headline story in the Seattle Times kept on talking about the WRONG GAS (carbon monoxide instead of carbon dioxide).


A Religious Movement
In many ways, the ASP group appears to be a religious movement, not unlike the many millennialist movements of the past.  As other groups in the past, they predict an apocalyptic future (including fire and brimstone!) and that one must “believe” in their viewpoint or be rejected as a “denier.”  The ASP folks have a holy viewpoint that comes from authority (they claim based on the views of 97% of scientists).  There is no debate allowed, the science is “settled.”   Sounds like religious dogma.
The ASP movement describes a world that is teetering on the edge, with mankind’s days numbers (10 or 12 years according to several of their leading prophets) unless immediate steps are taken.  They constantly repeat that the threat is existential.
They believe it is ok to distort the truth to get folks “to do the right thing.”   The ASP group has well defined “enemies” that represent true evil (Trump, Republicans, Big Oil, Koch Brothers) and they support attacking and silencing those they disagree with (my past blog gives you some documented examples of such behavior).  ASP has their priests (Al Gore, Bill McKibben, Michael Mann) and even young saints (Greta Thunberg).  As in many such movements, members are guided to act in approved and enlightened ways, but the leadership does not need to follow the rules (e.g., many ASP “leaders”  have huge carbon footprints from flying).  Importantly, ASP sees their work going much further than a technical fix for technical problem, but as a “social justice” movement that will change the very organization of society.
Disturbingly, the ASP folks are against key technologies that could really make a difference, such as nuclear power, and are relatively uninterested in working on adaptation and resilience to climate change.   Many do not support dealing with our forests in a rational way (e.g., restoration with thinning and prescribed burning) but would rather blame it all on global warming.

By pushing a highly political agenda the ASP movement is undermining bipartisan efforts–and nothing important will be done unless both sides of the aisle are involved.  ASP folks love to say that the Republicans are unwilling to deal with climate change, a totally unfair claim.  I have talked personally to leading WA Republicans, like Bill Bryant and Rob McKenna.   They acknowledge the seriousness of global warming and the need to act.  In my talks in highly Republican eastern Washington, growers and others accept the problem and want to work on solutions.   Under a Republican U.S. Congress, funding for climate research has been protected and increased.  But partisan attacks by the ASP group is seen as a way to promote group cohesion and the “evil” of the other side.  Calling others names is not an effective way to secure their cooperation.
A problem for the ASP group is that their message is so dark, pessimistic and depressing that it tends to turn others off.   And it has a terrible psychological effects on its adherents and those that listen.  Fear, anxiety, feelings of hopelessness, despair, and rage.  There are even classes on dealing with eco-anxiety and climate grief.  Greta Thunberg said that the worry ruined her childhood.

And yes, there is President Trump.   Much of what he says on climate change is simply nonsensical, and quite frankly he is not part of the debate.  Republicans in Congress do not follow his lead.  But he is a convenient foil for the ASP folks, who use him for their own purposes.


The Bottom Line
Progress on climate change is being undermined by the efforts of the highly vocal, partisan, and ineffective ASP group.  They are standing in the way of bipartisan action on climate change, efforts to fix our forests, and the use of essential technologies.   They are a big part of the problem, not the solution.
In contrast to the ASP folks, the ACT group generally tries to stay out of the public eye, quietly completing the work  needed to develop the technologies and infrastructure that will allow us to mitigate and adapt to climate change.  In the end, they will save us.  That is, if the ASP folks don’t get in their way.

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Mike McMillan
October 20, 2019 3:06 pm

Climate improvement is not a problem. Anybody have the number of the telephone booth this guy lives in?

Rich Davis
October 20, 2019 3:14 pm

Don’t give your money to THOSE alarmists, they’re crazy. Give it to us, we’re rational alarmists.

Reply to  Rich Davis
October 20, 2019 4:03 pm

😂👍

October 20, 2019 3:31 pm

If you use the NASA Ground Measurements and control for Urban Heat Island Effect, you will find that CO2 has no impact on temperature. This video demonstrates how anyone with a computer can do a very simple experiment to debunk this nonsense. Best of all you can use NASA’s data to disprove the theory they are pushing. It also totally debunks the Hockeystick chart. WUWT, you may want to commission an article demonstrating the experiment detailed in this video. Lawyers may also want to watch this video if they are involved in Climate Litigation.

Complete Global Warming Science Fair Project
https://youtu.be/ZUVqZKBMF7o

LittleOil
Reply to  CO2isLife
October 20, 2019 4:30 pm

This is an excellent but a bit long video which could do with improved presentation. Good solid facts and logic which might be better in a written article which would be faster to read. Well done and well suggested!! If you need funds to put this together I would be very happy to make a contribution.

JohnWho
Reply to  CO2isLife
October 21, 2019 6:56 am

I agree, a more polished presentation would be great.

Using NASA’s data to show NASA’s conclusions aren’t correct is poetic justice.

Suggesting proper science methods should be used will probably be blasphemous to the CAGW religious zealots, especially those posting in this thread.

October 20, 2019 3:41 pm

Professor Cliff Mass is clearly living in a make-believe world at the University of Washington. That means that he cannot or will not acknowledge that there are very credible scientific objections to climate hysteria, whether that hysteria comes from the radicals he despises or from those who want to seem a little more moderate like himself.

They are all pushing a false narrative and cannot defend it in a fair forum.

Hence, their strategy is to marginalize out of existence scientists who are skeptics. That simply will not work in science, as the truth always comes out in the end. Cliff’s reputation will suffer severely, when the truth that there is no climate crisis is widely recognized. He may win the immediate skirmishes that are ongoing at UW, but will lose the battle for truth, now that he is into completely denying the scientific opposition to his approach. More than five hundred scientists (including me) signed the “European Declaration” against climate hysteria. That is far more scientists than a competing alarmist petition was able to gather.

Whenever we have offered to discuss the subject with Cliff Mass at UW or elsewhere he finds some way to duck. Is he really being more moderate or just taking a different political approach that is just as radical and wrong in the end?

Peter Morris
October 20, 2019 3:42 pm

I keep hearing that global warming is a problem, but I never see anyone describing how the Thames freezing over every year or the Delaware doing the same is a good thing. Or why increased aridity from cooler, drier air is good. Or why lowering CO2 levels so plants can’t breathe is good.

Don’t talk to me about the “real” climate debate if you’re not going to discuss reality.

Insufficiently Sensitive
October 20, 2019 3:43 pm

2. A group, mainly on the political left, that is highly partisan, anxious and often despairing, self-righteous, big on blame and social justice, and willing to attack those that disagree with them.

The biggest omission in this category 2 is that of the hopes and intentions of its group members to gain sufficient power as to heavily influence, if not control, the transfer of private companies who produce goods and services to the administration of an unaccountable, quasi-governmental body (QGB) who will act as a high priesthood with final decision authority over the diverse economies of the ‘world community’ to prevent runaway global warming.

Said QGB would claim the authority of science as its co-pilot, and would begin attacking the ‘root causes’ of AGW by shuttering first the coal industry, then oil, then natural gas (and with them the concept of privately-owned transportation devices), then by stupendous subsidies attempting to create a ‘green’ network of non-fossil power generation, together with the ancillary storage and transmission facilities necessary to supply some fraction of current energy consumption.

This will not be pretty, and will rapidly decline in utility to the average human.

October 20, 2019 3:43 pm

Fossil fuel companies only make billions because us millions of others love what they can do with their product. Even other companies like Apple or Amazon. We love using the power – especially electricity. hundreds of businesses go broke because too few want or need what they provide. Simple supply and demand. Watch the irrelevant go broke and dissappear.

October 20, 2019 3:50 pm

Just popped over to the NASA GISTemp web pages to see what the latest was, and even their graph, with it’s scary climb, actually represents only a 1.1C rise in the average global anomaly since 1880.

That’s 140 years with 1.1 degree rise. Catastrophic? I think not!

Loydo
Reply to  James Schrumpf
October 20, 2019 11:03 pm

You think global warming is over? The CO2 spigot hasn’t even finished being opened.

Gwan
Reply to  Loydo
October 21, 2019 2:24 am

That says it all loydo
There is no proof that CO2 controls the climate and the constant propaganda that our news media is showering us with proves how desperate the climate doomsters have become .
Look at the facts .
One degree Celsius rise in global temperature since the Little Ice Age .
The little Ice Age was just that a cold period in the last 1000 years of the worlds history .
The real deniers are those scientists that deny history and try and erase the Medieval Warm period because it wont fit their theory .
I sympathies with you loydo as the constant propaganda has affected you and you are so concerned about CO2 and we are all gonna cook .
I will say to you there is nothing to fear about CO2 but and if the doomsters were sincere they would be advocating the rapid advancement of nuclear power plants as the population of the world can not survive without plentiful affordable energy .
Restrict energy and billions would die of starvation ,freezing to death .lack of clean water and sanitation .
With billions living in cities around the world , energy is absolutely essential for modern civilization.

MarkW
Reply to  Loydo
October 21, 2019 8:34 am

Not over? It never got started in the first place.
Most of that 1.1C occurred before mankind started putting CO2 into the atmosphere. Of the rest, anyone who assumes that all of it must have been caused by CO2 is to stupid to be allowed on the streets by themselves.

October 20, 2019 3:55 pm

ASP & ACT are like Stan & Ollie :
– one always paniks, is emotional, often tearful, the other is more rational, self-confident, but actually, both are clowns.

Bill Taylor
October 20, 2019 3:55 pm

with the world series starting tuesday isnt it time to discuss the problems caused by these constantly changing batting averages? and the ERA’s of the pitchers…….see those stats constantly CHANGE! and just how big an impact on this world series will they have?

Reply to  Bill Taylor
October 20, 2019 8:06 pm

They don’t make sense, either. It’s like, having a high batting average is GOOD, but having a high Earned Run Average is BAD. Don’t lots of good battings lead to earned runs for the battor?

MarkW
Reply to  James Schrumpf
October 20, 2019 8:30 pm

Earned Run Average indicates how many earned runs a pitcher has allowed.
The two numbers are for two different positions.

Bill Taylor
Reply to  MarkW
October 20, 2019 9:54 pm

and neither average controls this upcoming world series, they have ZERO control or impact on the future outcome……same as climate it is not a force, has no power and does not control or cause any weather event

MarkW
Reply to  James Schrumpf
October 21, 2019 8:41 am

You may be thinking of RBIs, Runs Batted In. Having a high RBI is a good thing for a batter.

JohnWho
Reply to  Bill Taylor
October 21, 2019 7:00 am

Yes, they constantly CHANGE as players have more at bats and pitchers throw more pitches – as time passes.

So, to, do the weather/climate statistics change as time passes.

Hmm…

Bill Taylor
Reply to  JohnWho
October 21, 2019 8:51 am

you found the point, weather constantly changes so stats derived from weather will constantly change……..to blame humans that the climate changes is stupid and insane.

October 20, 2019 3:59 pm

On page five (5) of the Carbon Kleptomania Report ( it has a good chart listing SEVEN different positions on Climate Change (see “The 2-degree-C Delusion”). Contrast this to the silly two positions in this piece.

I’m reminded of the saying that golf wagers are won or lost before hitting the first shot. That’s essentially what Cliff attempted to do here.

October 20, 2019 4:02 pm

Another blog post where the participants are assigned categories.
Indeed, it paints a world where everyone is convince global warming must be addressed and money thrown at it.
Wrong

I find that I do not fit either category.
Again, the post is wrong.

Then there is the statement:

“And yes, there is President Trump. Much of what he says on climate change is simply nonsensical, and quite frankly he is not part of the debate. Republicans in Congress do not follow his lead.”

Indeed there was a party of GOP activists who were anti-Trump and rabidly against president Trump’s refusal to address global warming.
Every one of those GOP Congressmen are gone during the last election cycle.

Current GOP members who are anti President Trump’s actions are sidelined. Especially when actions like throwing money at global warming are loser issues when facing the American public.

Then there is this tidbit:

“Initiative 732 was backed by Carbon Washington, a non-political group whose bi-partisan proposal would have increased the price of carbon fuels but was revenue neutral, giving all the funds collected back to the citizens of the State.”

Really!? “Revenue neutral”?
There is no such thing in government!
It takes government administrators to collect money, verify receipts, verify residents, verify income, mail checks to deserving people, chase fraud…

Government does return funds in a revenue neutral manner, ever!
And, every year their administrative and enforcement costs increase.

Nor do Congresspersons and Senators allow most bills to keep money separate and isolated from Congress.
These government representatives want all monies to be deposited into the general fund, so they can pay bills; like employee salaries who are employed all year to watch the financial process…

Multiple falsehoods or oversights in one article. And my blood pressure spikes after reading another “everyone sensible likes this idea” and “this is revenue neutral” series of fallacies.

Robert Jacobs
October 20, 2019 4:02 pm

The real debate is certainly not over whether global warming, spurred by increasing greenhouse gases, is a serious problem that must be addressed. Both sides of the real climate debate agree on that.

Did not need to read any further. Wrong twice in first graph.

Jl
October 20, 2019 4:09 pm

Wow-who agrees that it’s a serious problem that must be addressed? What would that serious problem be?

MarkW
October 20, 2019 4:11 pm

What about the realists, those who recognize that there is no need to reduce, much less eliminate, CO2 emissions?

Neville
October 20, 2019 4:12 pm

Here’s the Connolly’s latest study about temperature change and greenhouse gases using balloon data .

https://blog.friendsofscience.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/July-18-2019-Tucson-DDP-Connolly-Connolly-16×9-format.pdf

Here’s their conclusions. See point 4 below.

1) “The neglect of through air mechanical energy has led to the hypothesis that the atmosphere is only in local thermodynamic equilibrium i.e. conduction convection and radiation cannot transmit energy fast enough to maintain thermodynamic equilibrium with altitude . This was a mistake. 2) If the atmosphere can transmit energy quickly enough to restore thermodynamic equilibrium, our results say that it can, then as Einstein showed in his 1919 paper the rate of absorption of radiation by IR active gases is equal to their rate of emission i.e. IR active gases ( so called greenhouse gases) do not trap or store energy for systems in thermodynamic equilibrium . 3) However greenhouse gases do absorb and emit radiation and can also absorb and loose energy due to collision with other gases . But as can also be shown from Einstein’s 1919 work, that where a thermal gradient exists, due to the photo induced emission component of Einstein’s equation the net effect of greenhouse gases is to increase the flow of IR radiation from hot to cold and not the other way round. 4) Einstein’s 1919 work and our balloon work shows that increasing the concentrations of the so called greenhouse gases does not cause global warming”.

DMA
Reply to  Neville
October 20, 2019 8:47 pm

In my opinion this is the most important analysis of the last thirty years because it falsifies the greenhouse gas warming hypothesis. There are lots of others that pokes holes in the assumptions and projections of the GCMs that assume this hypothesis is true and many others that show the assumed cause is not correlated to the assumed effect but this one concludes that there is no greenhouse gas effect in our atmosphere. Thus it invalidates any effort to control it by reducing emissions.
Here is a video where the Connollys are presenting the slides you linked. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfRBr7PEawY )

DocSiders
October 20, 2019 4:18 pm

And still the DEBATE skirts blindly around the FACTS.

Key Scientific members (e.g. Michael Mann) in the Alarmist Camp have made a lot of PREDICTIONS and all of them have been WILDLY INACCURATE…like orders of magnitude wrong. Not a single prediction has been accurate…many have the wrong sign.

Meanwhile, severe weather events are not getting worse, and most telling, the number of days above 100 degrees, and 90 degrees and 80 degrees has steadily fallen for the last 50 years (at unbiased stations). It’s not getting hotter during the day. (WAY hotter in the 1930’s wherever there were thermometers in the world…weeks at a time above 100 degrees across whole countries…We’ve NOT SEEN THIS since then ).

It’s only getting a wee bit warmer overnight (higher lows) and that is a good thing. And most of the warming is in the Arctic (but not also in the Antarctic – as was predicted). And historical records in the Arctic chronicle low ice extents prior to 1940 similar to now.

The Climate today is the best in history and getting better. Deaths from “Climate Events” continue to decline significantly. There is NOTHING WRONG AT ALL.. nothing at all like a Crisis.

Cube
October 20, 2019 4:25 pm

Both of these groups would be warmists, the only difference being the ACT group is rational but deluded while the ASP group is raving emotional idiots incapable of reason.

Tom Abbott
October 20, 2019 4:28 pm

From the article: “And yes, there is President Trump. Much of what he says on climate change is simply nonsensical, and quite frankly he is not part of the debate.

Well, some of what Trump says about the climate might be nonsense but he just does that to jerk the chain of the alarmists.

Trump understands the climate better than the alarmists. The alarmists think the climate just keeps getting hotter and hotter, but Trump knows the “temperatures go up, and then they go down”.

Trump’s signature resembles the real global temperature profile: It goes up and down and up and then down, up and down, up and down. Just like the temperatures do, unless you are a delusional alarmist and believe in fraudulent Hockey Stick charts. Alarmists think the temperatures never go down. Alarmists think climate scientists back in the 1970’s must have been delusional forecasting a new Ice Age cooling when no cooling shows up on the fraudulent Hockey Stick chart.

Trump is definitely part of this debate. Try getting anything done without him onboard. We’ll see how much Trump is part of the debate once we find out who the Democrat nominee is going to be. Then we can focus on the issue.

October 20, 2019 4:32 pm

Ah, of course – the “real” debate can only be held between two Cardinals of the Church of Holy Climate Change, about whether the vestments shall be of cotton or of silk.

Either way, they agree that they must be the vestments of the dictators.

John Sandhofner
October 20, 2019 4:53 pm

“The real debate is certainly not over whether global warming, spurred by increasing greenhouse gases, is a serious problem that must be addressed. Both sides of the real climate debate agree on that.” Disagree that BOTH SIDES agree on seriousness of CO2 greenhouse gas. Article appears to be written by a lefty who attempting find common ground in the hopes that something can be done. If CO2 is a minor if irrelevant greenhouse gas. Sun along with the flux in the strength of our magnetic field are the key players.

John Endicott
Reply to  John Sandhofner
October 21, 2019 5:58 am

Indeed, and like most all lefties, he seems to think that “finding common ground” means the other side agreeing with him.

Linda Goodman
October 20, 2019 4:57 pm

“We’ve always been at war with Eurasia!” This illusion of agreement is aiding republican globalists to align with democrat globalists in a lockstep march toward eco-techno-totalitarian world government. AGW as a monstrous fraud on so many levels it boggles the mind, and we can add this shameless trickery to the list.

October 20, 2019 5:01 pm

So the author considers one side as sincere, rational, otherwise capable people who are acting “… to develop and apply the technologies that will produce the carbon-free future we look for.” Producing a carbon-free future is an absurd goal to begin with, so these proponents of action have already been badly misled. I’m not looking for a carbon-free future. Are you? Why would you want that? Perhaps they simply cannot or do not yet see that whatever warming trend may exist could just as easily be natural and have little or nothing to do with carbon dioxide. So the real test of rational thinking is yet to come, as I see it, when nature finally makes it unequivocal that the diagnosis was wrong all along. This may take a while. Let’s see what happens. In any case, there can still be common ground in the meantime with those who challenge the climate crisis claims. It’s not a carbon tax. It is nuclear power in its latest, safest configurations.

Chuck Wiese
October 20, 2019 5:06 pm

Cliff: Your article is quite appalling. When you wrote your last article complaining about academic harassment by the University of Washington faculty and leftist radicals who hang at the university who wanted you silenced and fired for not being wiling to lie about the current state of the climate and the fake “ocean acidification” nonsense, several from my group, including myself, came to your defense in the name of defending the rights of free academic speech and ideas that advance science and in particular for being truthful.

While I am miles apart from ever agreeing on your belief about CO2 changing the climate ( based upon failed climate models that you partake in constructing ) I defend your right as a scientist to state your beliefs and reasons for them so long as you and any others in your group can defend your hypothesis and answer the tough questions.

Little more than two years ago I challenged you and the scientists at the University of Washington to a seminar debate and discussion about failed climate models and radiative transfer theory employed in them and you refused to debate the issue with us as did the rest of the University faculty.

Now I see that your position is to want it both ways. You demand academic free speech, which I support, but you are now engaging in the same sort of reprehensible behavior that you accused those in the University of Washington faculty of doing to you by censoring and bullying you about the current state of the climate. But now you are refusing to defend your beliefs as any reputable scientist would be happy to do by deliberately marginalizing any who question the accuracy of your claims about the future climate and CO2’s role in it according to failed climate models that you strongly believe in as a modeler yourself.

Marginalizing the opinions of those who do not support or believe your claims about CO2 and climate by calling them a fringe and unimportant position is the equivalent of wanting to censor and cut out of the discussion all together evidence from your critics that involves exposing how badly these models you have faith in are performing and discussing the physics employed in them that many of us know are faulty and causing the failures. When so much is at stake that will be very costly to the general public from poor policy making decisions coming out of running failed climate models that you insist are accurate, but evidence shows otherwise, and your refusal to explain yourself and answer the tough questions goes directly to irresponsible behavior and misleading the political class.

You are losing a considerable amount of support having wrote this article which exposes you for speaking out of both sides of your mouth. To put it mildly, you have become a hypocrite and no longer a trustworthy scientist.

October 20, 2019 5:08 pm

As for Cliff’s ASP acronym, I would term them DSP.
They aren’t “anxious.” They are “Deranged.”
Anxious is just being too polite about their chronic psychological problems. A Steady pharmacological intervention with alprozalam (Xanax) would benefit everyone around them.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
October 20, 2019 6:10 pm

Millions of rational, non-delusional, informed, intelligent, literate* people with no clinical history of mood or thought disorders believe the proposition that we need to Do Something, and we need to do it yesterday.

Writing them off as mentally ill would—besides being a bit of a dog act reminiscent of Lewandowsky—close off the only path we have to reconciling with, and deprogramming, half the population. If we abandoned the presumption of mutual rationality, we’d rule ourselves out of any conversation with our climate-concerned friends and neighbors.

If you can only explain the societal state of affairs by assuming the existence of a pandemic (literally) of mental illness unparalleled in medical history, I humbly suggest you need to think a bit harder.

I say “if,” because it’s also possible I’ve misinterpreted you, and that you’re talking about a much more specific demographic than I had in mind. If so, sure, it’s not beyond the bounds of plausibility that a relatively small group could be in the grip of something like a folie a plusieurs. So let me preemptively apologize in case that’s what’s you meant.

* …albeit not scientifically literate.

Reply to  Brad Keyes
October 20, 2019 9:56 pm

Brad,
You are confusing/conflating Cliff’s ACT with his ASP grouping defintions.

By definition, Cliff’s ASP is an anxiety disorder. And Xanax is an anti-anxiety med.

“Alprazolam
Alprazolam, sold under the trade name Xanax, among others, is a short-acting benzodiazepine. It is most commonly used in short term management of anxiety disorders, specifically panic disorder or generalized anxiety disorder.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam

So take a “chill pill”. Weather events are not climate.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
October 21, 2019 10:44 pm

Joel,

You’re quite right, that’s what happened. Mind you, I didn’t really confuse or conflate them, both of which would imply elision: falsely treating two distinct things as the same thing. Rather I mistook each for the other. There’s no word for that as far as I know, but suffice it to say I got my ACTs ASP-backwards.

It’s a good thing I apologized in advance for misunderstanding you. In retrospect, let me apologize in hindsight.

Reply to  Brad Keyes
October 21, 2019 10:11 am

Members of the ACT and ASP groups are alike in suffering from a delusion. In the line of research that I have conducted over the past three decades I have discovered the nature of this delusion. It is to mistake a logically unsound argument for a logically sound one and is understandable because the logically unsound argument is dressed up to look like a logically sound one.

The logically sound argument is of the form of a predictive inference. The logically unsound argument is of the form of a “unit-measure-equivocation,” that is, an argument made by a model in which a term changes meaning in the midst of the argument and the term that changes meaning is “unit” in the phrase “unit measure.” “Unit measure” is the axiom of probability theory which states that “1 is the measure of a sure event.”

For a predictive inference, “unit” means “1 thing” but for a unit-measure-equivocation “unit measure” means “0 things,” or “2 things.” For the argument that is made by a modern-day climate model “unit” can be shown to mean “0 things” but this argument is dressed up to look as though “unit” means “1 thing.” This deception leads members of both groups to mistake a unit-measure-equivocation for a predictive inference. That they fall for this deception does not signify that members of both groups are crazy but only that they have been deceived.