Shutdown Demonstrates How “Vital” Government Scientists Are… NOT

 

Guest laugh by David Middleton

The laugh is the fact that an article demonstrating the nonessential nature of government scientists, is titled “The Shutdown Shows Just How Vital Government Scientists Are”

ERIC NIILER SCIENCE 01.08.19

THE SHUTDOWN SHOWS JUST HOW VITAL GOVERNMENT SCIENTISTS ARE

 

INSTEAD OF FIGURING out how many Pacific hake fishermen can catch sustainably, as his job demands, scientist Ian Taylor is at home with his four-month old daughter, biding his time through the partial government shutdown.

[…]

Some federal science agencies are open, such as the National Institutes for Health and the Department of Energy, since their appropriations bills were already signed by Trump. Others, such as NASA, are continuing to operate key programs such as the International Space Station, although 95 percent of its 15,000 workers were sent home on Dec. 22.

[…]

The shutdown has led to a hodgepodge of federal science-based activity across the country. A SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket is sitting on a launch pad at Cape Canaveral ready for a planned launch on Jan. 17, but without NASA personnel to oversee testing, that liftoff will be delayed. Crews that fly over the Atlantic to check on endangered Atlantic right whales and send those positions to commercial ships are still working, but they aren’t being paid.

Weather forecasters are working during the shutdown, but hundreds of scientists from NOAA and the National Weather Service have been banned from attending the annual American Meteorological Society meeting this week in Phoenix.

[…]

The Environmental Protection Agency furloughed about 14,000 of its employees, leaving just 753 “essential” workers on the job.

[…]

Leslie Rissler, an evolutionary biologist and program director at the NSF, tweeted last week that she had applied for unemployment benefits.

[…]

Wired

So… NASA and the EPA can maintain essential operations with only 5% of their workforce, evolutionary biologists are nonessential drains on the taxpayers, NOAA meteorologists can’t attend the American Meteorological Society convention on the taxpayers’ dime… Maybe I’m just a bit jaded, but how does the word “vital” fit in here?  Can you think of a better example of a nonessential government employee than an evolutionary biologist?

Is anyone else laughing at all of the blather about government scientists not being able to attend conventions?  I call them conventions as do most people I know, even though the official title is usually “conference and exposition.”  If I had a dollar for every time I couldn’t attend the AAPG, SEG or GCAGS* convention because my employer was tightening their belt, I’d have a lot of dollars.  For that matter, I’ve even become proactive in belt-tightening… The only times I ever request to attend AAPG, SEG or GCAGS conventions are when they are in Dallas or Houston (where I can keep the costs pretty-well limited to the registration fee).  Having survived multiple oil price crashes, I’ve learned that controlling costs enables companies (and paychecks) to survive downturns and to be more profitable during “booms”.  I don’t recall any geologists complaining about not being able to attend the 2016 AAPG convention in Calgary because their companies were cutting costs due to the collapse in oil prices.  Most of them probably felt like I did: Thankful to still have a job… if they still had jobs.

Regarding the possible delay in the launch of the privately owned SpaceX Falcon 9 rocket, the key takeaway is that the “privatization” of spaceflight is still mostly a buzzword.  If “Paul Allen, Larry Page, Eric E. Schmidt, Ram Shriram, Charles Simony, Ross Perot, Jr., Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Elon Musk, and Robert Bigelow” want to privatize spaceflight, maybe they might think about building their own launch facilities… with their own money.  Or, maybe the US government should privatize NASA’s space operations.

*Abbreviations

AAPG: American Association of Petroleum Geologists

SEG: Society of Exploration Geophysicists

GCAGS: Gulf Coast Association of Geological Societies

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Joel Snider
January 9, 2019 12:03 pm

I am of the humble opinion the government can just STAY shut down for 2019.

David Chappell
Reply to  Joel Snider
January 9, 2019 7:40 pm

and 2020? Belgium managed without a government for 20 months

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  David Chappell
January 9, 2019 11:12 pm

Sweden still hasnt got one after 4 months.

Eben
January 9, 2019 12:06 pm

They better reopen soon before people figure out it is not needed

Menicholas
Reply to  Eben
January 9, 2019 12:19 pm

This is exactly correct, and I suspect it will be what finally makes Chuck and Nancy do the right thing in the end. IOW…do the job they were elected to do, and which they took an oath wherein they swore to do it.

Another Paul
Reply to  Menicholas
January 9, 2019 12:52 pm

“do the job they were elected to do, and which they took an oath wherein they swore to do it” I think those 2 items are mutually exclusive.

Greg
Reply to  Menicholas
January 9, 2019 12:54 pm

At one stage Belgium did not have a govt. for around 18 mo. and no one seemed to notice much.

Can you think of a better example of a nonessential government employee than an evolutionary biologist?

let me see ….. climate modeller ??

Kenji
Reply to  Greg
January 9, 2019 12:58 pm

Temperature adjuster? Nope. Not essential.

Percy Jackson
Reply to  Menicholas
January 9, 2019 1:32 pm

Which part of their job aren’t they doing? The constitution clearly states that “All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.” So clearly the responsibility for the budget lies with the House of Representatives and not the president. It is also worth noting that the shutdown was started when the republicans were in charge of the House of Representatives and did not want to fund the wall either.

Steven Fraser
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 2:11 pm

@Percy J: ‘raising Revenue’ is taxation and/or fees, not spending, which is ‘appropriation’.

Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 2:24 pm

I shall be kind and assume ignorance.

The Republican House of Representatives DID pass a bill with funding for vital border security – including the barrier.

Now, I will admit that the Republican Senate didn’t muster up the guts to overrule the MINORITY of Democrats to finish the job.

Percy Jackson
Reply to  Writing Observer
January 9, 2019 3:30 pm

Also note that the Republican senate passed a bill that would have kept the
government open and which funded border security at the level of 1.6 billion.
The Republican controlled house of representatives voted against it and Trump indicated that he would veto it. Since then the Democratic lead House of Representatives have passed the same bill that the Senate approved in December 2018 but currently the Republicans controlling the Senate are not allowing this to come to a vote.

MarkW
Reply to  David Middleton
January 9, 2019 2:44 pm

It’s amazing how quickly the Democrats have forgotten the filibuster.
Back when Obama was messing things up, they constantly blamed the filibuster for everything Obama didn’t get to.

MarkW
Reply to  David Middleton
January 9, 2019 5:06 pm

Make that “how quickly the Democrat apologists”.
The Democrats in the Senate have obviously not forgotten about the filibuster.

Steve Reddish
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 2:37 pm

Percy, while Trump had said he was willing to shut the Government down if necessary, he never got that chance. The House of Representatives passed a bill funding the Government (including $5.7 for the border wall) and sent it to the Senate. The shutdown was started when Democrats in the Senate blocked passage of the funding bill because it had the funding Trump requested.

SR

Steve Reddish
Reply to  Steve Reddish
January 9, 2019 2:49 pm

Note to self: always refresh before commenting to avoid duplicating others.

SR

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 3:26 pm

Yes, and the President can veto the bill.

Congress can break the log jam by over riding the veto. An override requires the votes of 2/3rds of each House. Given the current partisan make-up of Congress, that means about 50 Republican representatives out of 195 and 20 Republican Senators.

Unless some remarkable new event occurs that causes Republicans to abandon the President en masse, I can’t see that happening.

The media is trying to stampede Republicans into abandoning the President. But, they know that they will be primaried if they do.

Bottom line, Trump cannot afford to back down, because if he does his Presidency is over. Congressional Democrats can, because only their crazies will be upset.

MarkG
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
January 9, 2019 5:39 pm

“Congressional Democrats can, because only their crazies will be upset.”

Americans have mostly stopped voting for Democrats, so they desperately need more illegals to do the votes Americans won’t do. This is a life-and-death issue for them.

flow in
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 4:06 pm

disingenuous, of course.

ATheoK
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 4:56 pm

“Percy Jackson January 9, 2019 at 1:32 pm
Which part of their job aren’t they doing?

So clearly the responsibility for the budget lies with the House of Representatives”

You just answered your own question.

The obstructing democrats are ignoring the country’s budget needs and requirements.
Their refusal to fund what they have supported in the past is sheer anti-Trump derangement.

They’d much rather government departments and agencies suffer and degrade while citizens are denied services than “do their job!”

And yes, they swore an oath to uphold the Constitution and to perform their duties.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  ATheoK
January 9, 2019 5:09 pm

They have performed their duties. They have passed bills and sent them to the Senate. The problem is that the majority leader of the Senate refuses to bring the already passed House bills up for consideration in the Senate.

nw sage
Reply to  ATheoK
January 9, 2019 5:49 pm

re legislative rules specified in the Constitution:
The Constitution only says that each House of the legislature shall adopt their own rules. Tradition has given the Senate the 60 vote plurality to limit a filibuster. Many think it was wise to do this to prevent the ‘tyranny of the majority’. And remember, the Senate was originally a body appointed by and beholden only to the the party in control of each state so basically, the rule required that 60% OF THE STATES had to agree with an action.

Jcarlos10
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 5:55 pm

The constitution also states only congress can print money but the private no reserve does it anyway.

Richard Patton
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 5:57 pm

Even though the Republicans controlled the House there were too many RINOs who were afraid of what the media would say about them to get the wall funded.

marque2
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 6:28 pm

The GOP in the house did push forward a bill with wall spending. It was the Senate where it didnt go through because of the outdated, nonconstitutional (yes non not un) filibuster rules.

Wally
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 9, 2019 8:42 pm

But it was a Republican president who now has the formerly reluctant Republicans ready to fund the wall and the communist Democrats about to buckle
I mean after all, Congress overwhelmingly gave US taxpayers money to fund Israel’s massive wall.
https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/135533120?profile=original

And then we supposedly can’t afford $5 billion for a border wall, but we can afford to give Israel 85 billion dollars more; it the very first bill out of the 2019 Congress.
And note that the ‘govt funding shutdown’ does not apply to what he already are giving Israel, of course.
‘Israel’s $38 Billion Scam, Bibi wants more and Congress might deliver’
http://www.unz.com/pgiraldi/israels-38-billion-scam/

Michael 2
Reply to  Percy Jackson
January 10, 2019 10:51 am

The “Budget” is proposed by the Executive Branch, it is a request for money from Congress to fund all those government agencies. Congress in turn requests (demands) money from The People since it doesn’t have money of its own.

Neo
Reply to  Eben
January 9, 2019 2:02 pm

We’ve passed the “tipping point” on being “vital”

Joel O'Bryan
January 9, 2019 12:10 pm

” If Paul Allen, Larry Page, Eric E. Schmidt, Ram Shriram, Charles Simony, Ross Perot, Jr., Jeff Bezos, Richard Branson, Elon Musk, and Robert Bigelow want to privatize spaceflight,…”

Paul Allen can’t do much of anything anymore… he’s dead.

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
January 9, 2019 12:20 pm

See for example:
https://youtu.be/3at_Ev2kOoI

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
January 9, 2019 12:29 pm

Let is know if there is any change in his condition. 😉

Andrew

jorgekafkazar
Reply to  Bad Andrew
January 9, 2019 3:51 pm

I understand he voted in the mid-term elections. Eight times.

J Mac
Reply to  jorgekafkazar
January 9, 2019 8:56 pm

It’s a Seattle thing…..

John Endicott
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
January 9, 2019 12:34 pm

Paul Allen can’t do much of anything anymore… he’s dead.

Don’t worry, he can still vote for democrat candidates every election.

MarkW
Reply to  John Endicott
January 9, 2019 1:08 pm

More than once, if the spirit moves him.

R Shearer
Reply to  MarkW
January 9, 2019 5:08 pm

And he can take an eternity doing so.

J Mac
Reply to  MarkW
January 9, 2019 8:59 pm

He doesn’t have a ghost of a chance of voting conservative….

John W Braue
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
January 11, 2019 2:46 pm

The activity of decomposition is tremendous.

Phillip Bratby
January 9, 2019 12:13 pm

We used to call conventions boondoggles.

Rocketscientist
January 9, 2019 12:24 pm

Hmm…let’s not be too hasty in determining that scientists are not vital. True they are not vital if you do not want any further progress in understanding things. The time scales of their work do not fit into the 24 hr news cycle and the “what-have-you done-for-me-today” myopic public view. I however, like to set my horizons a bit farther.
Such progress has afforded us all the nice things we have and with such we can coast along just fine. Its simply that NO FURTHER progress will be made or it will be made at a much more torpid pace.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Rocketscientist
January 9, 2019 12:31 pm

You do realize that there are scientists outside of non-essential employees of the federal gov’t, right?

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  David Middleton
January 9, 2019 12:51 pm

The only vital scientists to Wired are those that mindlessly spew socialist party dogma and advance their propaganda narrative.

Phil R
Reply to  David Middleton
January 9, 2019 5:40 pm

David Middleton,

From above:

Others, such as NASA, are continuing to operate key programs such as the International Space Station, although 95 percent of its 15,000 workers were sent home on Dec. 22.

First, happy birthday to me. Hopefully, if 95 percent of NASA employees are not essential, I hope Gavin is one of them (he doesn’t do any Space Station work, does he)?

John Endicott
Reply to  Rocketscientist
January 9, 2019 12:40 pm

Hmm…let’s not be too hasty in determining that scientists are not vital

You are attacking a strawman. No one claimed “scientists are not vital.” (full stop). what is being said is that they are not “vital” government employees. They are mostly non-essential personal as far as government work goes. And government scientists are not the old scientists in the world. And most real progress takes place outside of the insular halls of government.

John Endicott
Reply to  John Endicott
January 9, 2019 12:46 pm

“not the old” should read “not the only”.

Bill Powers
Reply to  John Endicott
January 9, 2019 1:33 pm

It is the only way they can argue i.e. attack. When you pose salient observations they segue to bogus strawmen and proceed to knock them down hoping that the public school graduates will be dazzled by their “brilliance” and won’t notice that they changed the subject.

marque2
Reply to  John Endicott
January 9, 2019 6:43 pm

We could probably cut academic and government scientists (really the same thing since academics mostly get government grants) by 2/3 and I doubt anyone would notice.

MarkG
Reply to  Rocketscientist
January 9, 2019 5:43 pm

If they’re that vital, someone will pay them to do the vital work.

Reality is, most scientists are a long way from vital, and many are being paid not to progress society but to destroy it.

Everything Eisenhower warned about in his Farewell Address has come to pass.

Warren in New Zealand
January 9, 2019 12:28 pm

“the key takeaway is that the “privatization” of spaceflight is still mostly a buzzword. ”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocket_Lab

Rocket Lab NZ is well on the way with NASA contracts

Reply to  Warren in New Zealand
January 9, 2019 2:32 pm

Let me know when I can buy stock in NASA, will you?

(Actually, when I can short them from the IPO – that would be about the only way to make a profit…)

ResourceGuy
January 9, 2019 12:33 pm

Well, I was waiting for an explanation of what happened to the El Nino.

Another Paul
Reply to  ResourceGuy
January 9, 2019 12:54 pm

The Russians…

H.R.
Reply to  Another Paul
January 9, 2019 1:27 pm

Yah, but… you didn’t need a government scientist to tell you that.

There are only a few things you need to know in life:

1. Shinola
2. CO2
3. Russians
4. Orange man bad
5. 42

Write those down, preferably in stone. I’ll have 5 more later.

Now if you’ll excuse me I have to return to my cave high up in the mountains.

u.k.(us)
January 9, 2019 12:36 pm

I like to follow the winter ice on the Great Lakes.
I guess it is not really that important:
https://governmentshutdown.noaa.gov/?lake=l&ext=ice&type=N&hr=00

Stewart Pid
Reply to  Jeff in Calgary
January 9, 2019 2:27 pm

Be careful with Jeff’s website suggestion …. those are the metric great lakes and not the imperial great lakes 😉

Steven Fraser
Reply to  u.k.(us)
January 9, 2019 2:14 pm

It comes and goes…

u.k.(us)
Reply to  Steven Fraser
January 9, 2019 2:40 pm

@ Steven Fraser,
Yep, you might even say ” what goes around, comes around.”

Joel Snider
January 9, 2019 12:39 pm

I’m of the humble opinion that the government can just STAY shut down for the entirety of 2019.

John Endicott
Reply to  Joel Snider
January 9, 2019 12:47 pm

and beyond.

HD Hoese
January 9, 2019 12:50 pm

This may give government funded scientists some time for thinking.
“Contest models highlight inherent inefficiencies of scientific funding competitions”
https://journals.plos.org/plosbiology/article?id=10.1371/journal.pbio.3000065

“ As a result, much of the scientific impact of the funding program is squandered. ….Note that while an investigator will never enter a grant competition against her own self interest, there is no guarantee that the scientific value per funded proposal will exceed the scientific waste ….. Unfortunately, empirical comparisons between the efficiencies of funding competitions versus partial lotteries do not yet exist, to the best of our knowledge”

A Partial Lottery proposal, still models, lots of assumptions, suggest they still don’t know the complete problem, administrators need education to value education, and still the contest fallacy, but maybe a step forward.

Bruce Cobb
January 9, 2019 12:59 pm

Government shutdown demonstrates how vital gubmint science leeche’s jobs are to them. I bet half of them could be fired, and no one would notice a difference.

Bear
January 9, 2019 1:02 pm

“but without NASA personnel to oversee testing, that liftoff will be delayed.”

In other words it’s a union shop and the govies stand around while SpaceX personal do the actually work.

Greg Cavanagh
Reply to  Bear
January 9, 2019 1:20 pm

Hmmm. How does one “oversee” the testing?

I think you’ve got it in one. They need the NASA personnel to open the front gates and shoo the birds, else nothing gets done.

MarkG
Reply to  Greg Cavanagh
January 9, 2019 10:06 pm

They need someone to check that the pile of paperwork is taller than the rocket, then they can launch it.

Kurt in Switzerland
January 9, 2019 1:07 pm

Hake sustainability assessor Ian Taylor should enjoy the time with his 4 mo. old daughter. It is too precious to squander.

The hake fishermen will do just fine without him. Really.
And if the Missus gets cranky, he should just go fishin’ himself, sans gov’t. subsidy. Really.
The Washington D.C. charade is all too predictable.
All the posturing, all the seemingly serious words: “His fault, not mine.”
At least there’s the comic relief of American Gothic and the Game of THR⌽NES banners.

It’s a proverbial Mexican Standoff, first one to blink loses.

Jim Whelan
Reply to  Kurt in Switzerland
January 10, 2019 9:33 am

“first one to blink loses” Pelosi’s ACE in the hole.

ScienceABC123
January 9, 2019 1:08 pm

Just to point out the obvious… To all those furloughed government employees, there are jobs out there in the private sector.

Latitude
Reply to  ScienceABC123
January 9, 2019 3:33 pm

Last month they were saying unemployment was at an all time low…more jobs were created, etc

….somehow they will spin this into unemployment at a all time high

wait for it…….

AWG
Reply to  Latitude
January 9, 2019 7:12 pm

Is it a “vital” government job to spin the unemployment numbers?

Or are we just going to run to ADP for employment number proxies?

HotScot
Reply to  ScienceABC123
January 9, 2019 3:41 pm

ScienceABC123

American climate scientists were offered jobs in France by President Macron.

Isn’t that good enough for them?

ozspeaksup
Reply to  HotScot
January 10, 2019 3:59 am

I read tonight that the yellow vests are now going to target french banksters
good luck with that!

CD in Wisconsin
January 9, 2019 1:12 pm

“…Or, maybe the US government should privatize NASA’s space operations…”

I’ve been thinking along those same lines during this partial shutdown. If it is conceivably possible for the private sector to do what NASA does, then govt should just contract with the private space organizations to do what NASA does now.

I also don’t see why the National Park system cannot be privatized. If turned over to the private sector, the contract or sales agreement must specify that the parks will be operated as parks forever (no development) in the private sector and must always be open and available to everyone in the public.

The Postal Service is still operating (at least I am still getting my mail), but it could be privatized too. Also, maybe the National Weather Service. Threats of severe weather could still be automatically dispensed to the public under federal law with a privatized NWS.

Those who are enamored with Big Government will probably howl at the notion of all this privatization. But at times like this with dysfunctional govt, it starts to make sense.

Steven Fraser
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
January 9, 2019 2:20 pm

National Parks ARE developed. There are facilities, sometimes quite extensive. Think Yellowstone.

CD in Wisconsin
Reply to  Steven Fraser
January 9, 2019 2:41 pm

No ADDITIONAL development.

ScienceABC123
Reply to  CD in Wisconsin
January 9, 2019 3:11 pm

Well, the National Parks could be turned over to the States they are in…

ResourceGuy
January 9, 2019 1:37 pm

Just farm the work out to Brazilian agencies. Their staffs comment on how much they get done with one tenth the budget of their U.S. counterpart.

January 9, 2019 1:43 pm

Some 20 years ago, Vancouver’s bus drivers went on strike.
For a week or so.
Everyone got to work and the traffic flowed better.
Sigh,
🙂

nc
Reply to  Bob Hoye
January 9, 2019 3:45 pm

I remembe,r traffic flow on Broadway was awesome.

Mike Borgelt
January 9, 2019 2:02 pm

I’m sure Elon’s crews would be happy to launch the Falcon for the Crew Dragon demonstration in a week if NASA simply got out of the way. They will have recordings of telemetry and video for later analysis by NASA if/when they go back to work. Heck they can follow it in real time on the SpaceX feed. NASA is the customer here though and the customer is always right.
BTW the pads are actually rented by SpaceX, not given for free even though they weren’t doing much of anything and SpaceX spent real money refurbishing and modifying them.

Joel O'Bryan
Reply to  Mike Borgelt
January 9, 2019 2:23 pm

The USAF runs range safety for both Vandenberg and Cape launches. And the FAA keeps the airspace clear. Both are funded. The launch critical aspects could proceed without NASA. But that would show how much of NASA is just a self-licking ice cream cone (that is, it exists for its own benefit).

Joel O'Bryan
January 9, 2019 2:18 pm

The thought of Gavin and his fellow travelers at GISS on furlough has me all choked up… with tears of joy.
The climate scam is on hold, awaiting more tax dollars. Fitting.

Chad Irby
January 9, 2019 2:35 pm

It’s pretty damning that so many government websites are apparently run manually, so that they have to shut down when their handlers go home for a few days.

“Yeah, we have to turn the website off, even if the server hosting the site is still running a site with a ‘this site is turned off’ message.”

leowaj
Reply to  Chad Irby
January 9, 2019 5:52 pm

Actually, the sites shut down to prevent access to online government services. Even though the websites are simple and cost a few dollars a day to run, the services they link out to can cost many hundreds of thousands of dollars a day.

I’m loving the shutdown as much as anyone else here but having written software for the government and having seen how much money can be spent in a single 24-hour period to keep their digital services up… well, it’s staggering.

That said, it is quite stupid that many of them spent more money just to put up a “Closed until further notice” sign.

commieBob
January 9, 2019 2:44 pm

It has been said that the government scientists at the PFRA helped prevent Saskatchewan from becoming a desert. Men Against the Desert

… we learn that in Canada during the 1930s, known also as the “Dirty Thirties” because of the worsening drought conditions in the Canadian Prairies, a popular mentality totally different from that of today’s was dominant. This was a mentality that reflected a powerful optimism that man could totally improve the land and stop nature in its suicidal path towards destruction, even if financial means were lacking.

That was before the environmentalists got stupid.

Chuck
January 9, 2019 3:04 pm

“753 EPA workers?”

That still sounds like too many.

tom0mason
January 9, 2019 3:25 pm

Oh no! It’s worse than you think!
Here’s the list …
Many routers have failed overnight!
The price of lima beans set to fall by 3%!
A wheat crop somewhere failed!
Another foreign war might be declared!
Oil runs out! (of the can)
The economy normalizes!
Some flights are delayed!
Nationally this morning at least one hundred different vehicles failed to start first time!

Agghhh! Where are the government scientists ?

/sarc-off

So government employees, get the message all of the items listed above are more important than you who are the servant to the people.

January 9, 2019 3:28 pm

test only

January 9, 2019 3:32 pm

Test 2.

markl
January 9, 2019 3:34 pm

Does this mean we may be getting less scaremongering and fewer new reasons/proof about climate change? I wonder why so much time, energy, and money is being spent on proving something that is supposed to be so incontrovertible and harmful instead of mitigating it?

Tom Abbott
January 9, 2019 4:12 pm

Trump met with the Democrats today to try to work out a deal to fund the wall and open the government.

After a lot of haggling, with the Democrats saying they wouldn’t negotiate until the government was open, and then Trump said to Nancy Pelosi, “If I agree to everything you want and open the government, will you then fund the Wall?” Nancy Pelosi said, “No.”

Trump said, This meeting is over.”

Trump should probably start setting the groundwork for declaring a National Emergency. Trump will have to deal with lawsuits to get this implemented, but that should go fast, and should go in the president’s favor, and once this is done, Trump has the option of building the wall without Congress specifically funding it.

Of course, the Lefties will go nuts and accuse Trump of violating the U.S. Constitution, and all sorts of other crimes and evil motivations, and will declare the nation is in danger from an out-of-control president. But it’s all hyperbole and partisan political rhetoric.

The truth is the National Emergency Act (1976) authorizes the president to call a National Emergency unilaterally, and the law also authorizes that the president can carry out, among other things, construction, during the National Emergency, and can do so without prior funding authorization of Congress. This law is his authorization.

Before you start believing in the rogue president meme the Left will put out, keep in mind that his National Emergency Act also provides a method for Congress to overrule any actions by the president if Congress can muster enough votes to do so.

So the president can only go as far as the Congress will allow, although they do have to take active steps to stop him, if that’s what they want to do.

This law was actually written to reign in presidential power, and is probably unconstitutional in any restrictions placed on the president when it comes to the president and national defense and national security. The president is the Commander-in-Chief and has the constitutional power to defend the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.

Trump should declare a National Emergency and tell the nation that he will open up the government just as soon as the U.S. Supreme Court rules he can declare a National Emergency on the southern border under the National Emergency Act of 1976.

Meanwhile the Democrats will be raising all sorts of hell, but Trump can tell them if they don’t want him taking this action then they should authorize funding for the Wall and eliminate Trump’s need to go around them.

There IS a national emergency. Trump has tried to make a deal with the Democrats. The Democrats won’t deal for partisan political reasons. The emergency still exists. The president has to act. He can’t wait for the Democrats to play their politics any longer.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  Tom Abbott
January 9, 2019 4:21 pm

Tom, there is no “National Emergency.”

Floyd Doughty
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 4:38 pm

J. Philip, open your eyes.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  Floyd Doughty
January 9, 2019 4:42 pm

Floyd, my eyes are open, and there still is no “National Emergency.”

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 4:55 pm

However Dave, the courts can block it, so in fact the call by the president can be reviewed and overridden.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 4:58 pm

Oh yeah Dave, don’t forget the House of Representatives can deem an unwarranted declaration of a “National Emergency” and abuse of power which is considered a “high crime.”

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 5:47 pm

You cannot build a “wall” without money being appropriated for the purpose.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 5:50 pm

Another thing you seem to have forgotten about Dave, is that a lot of the land on which this “wall” will be built is private property. The government can’t build it there without either getting permission from the owner, or TAKING the land away from the owner by eminent domain. That needs to go in front of a judge.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 5:53 pm

Dave you don’t need 67 votes in the Senate, all you need is a single federal judge to find that the declaration of a “National Emergency” is an unconstitutional act.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 5:54 pm

Dave the last time the SCOTUS looked at a declaration of a “National Emergency” Truman lost.

J Carlos
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:08 pm

Just be glad your sibling wasn’t also murdered by an illegal.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:11 pm

Thank you Dave for posting this: “There are limitations on the use of such money, and there could be strong challenges to the use of unobligated funds in other areas. There is money there to start but not nearly enough to finish such a wall without proper appropriation. ”

Trump isn’t doing very well when his actions are challenged in court.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:22 pm

“Which can be immediately appealed to SCOTUS on an national security basis.”


Stick to working in the oil business Davie, because you’re not doing all that well when it comes to the area of law.

You seem to be confusing “emergency” and “security.”

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:28 pm

Dave, Pelosi told Donald “NO.”

He stormed out of the meeting.

He’s acting like a 12 year old.

I’ll bet if he sits on top of his gold plated toilet and is constipated, he’ll declare a “national emergency.”

If he did that, I’d agree with him, because if he’s constipated, he’s full of $h_t.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:39 pm

I have plenty Dave, the problem you have is your petulant, pubescent president has yet to realize that the political arena has changed due to the midterms. He can’t get away with it anymore.

Sure he can declare a “national emergency” if he so chooses, but a wiser politician would take note of the opinion polls that tell him that a majority of American don’t want a wall, and don’t want a shutdown.

His problem is that on national TV, he’s accepted responsibility for the shutdown. He own’s it.

Donald’s father Fred neglected to teach his son the meaning of the word “NO.”

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:51 pm

What’s the matter Davie? Are you now saying the same thing over and over expecting different results?

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:54 pm

Dave this guy can’t seem to make a “deal.” He stormed out of a meeting with Congressional leaders saying it was a “waste of time.”

The “Dealmaker” can’t make a deal?

Why is that?

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 7:17 pm

No Dave I’m not wrong. The president first made the mistake of accepting responsibility for the shutdown. He did it on TV, and he can’t take it back.

He is caught between a rock and a hard place. He promised a “wall” to his base, and he cannot get it politically now that the Democrats have won control of the House.

He owns the shutdown, and he is unable to compromise.

He walked out of the meeting, unable to make a “deal.”

So much for his book “The Art of the Deal.”

He’s a failure at making a deal.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 7:21 pm

Dave, if Trump couldn’t get funding for his “wall” in the past two years when the GOP controlled both houses of Congress, there is no way he’s going to get it now that Democrats control the House. The problem is that Trump is a political neophyte and will fail with his temper tantrum. Pelosi is a much better politician.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 7:46 pm

Middleton posts: “Democrats walked out ot the meeting… Because the lost.”


I assume you’ve had a bunch of beers, and meant to type: “Democrats walked out of the meeting… Because they lost.”

Now, don’t you know the meaning of the word “stalemate?”

Nobody left the meeting a winner.

Nobody left the meeting a loser

They all left with nothing.

No winners.

No losers.

Dave, your grasp of reality seems to be fleeting.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 7:56 pm

” He sandbagged the Democrats… again.”

Nope.

He failed to get Congressional approval when the GOP controlled Congress, now he’s going to circumvent the will of Congress after losing control of half of Congress.
..
He could have invoked “National Emergency” a long time ago. Now that Congress says “NO” he’s going to do it?

Remember Dave, this guy is not “King” ….. as much as he’s acting like one. If Congress says “NO” he needs to listen.

Floyd Doughty
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 9:12 pm

J. Philip, a wise man once said, “There are none so blind who will not see”. I wish you well with your braille classes.

Forget him, David. His mind has crossed over into another dimension and is incapable of rational thought processes.

John Endicott
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2019 6:34 am

Remember Dave, this guy is not “King” ….. as much as he’s acting like one. If Congress says “NO” he needs to listen.

JPP, You mean like Barrack “If Congress won’t act, I will” Obama listened when congress told him no? You seem to forget that the President is not subordinate to congress, they’re two separate branches of the government and as such, each has their own powers and abilities that can be used even when the two are not in agreement. For example, if Congress passes legislation the President doesn’t like, he can say “NO” (it’s called a veto) and congress can listen or congress can override that NO if they can muster enough votes in both houses. If congress won’t give the president what he wants one way, as Obama showed, there are other ways the president can accomplish his goals. And there are ways for congress to say NO to those other ways (but they’ll require more votes in the two houses than the democrats currently have on their side). The courts (the third branch of government) can also attempt to say no, but as long as Trump is within his authority (and make no mistake, he is well within the authority as laid out in the National Emergency act like it or not) ultimately he’ll prevail in the courts (even if it end up as a 5-4 in the Supreme Court) just as he has on a number of other issues that the more liberal courts have attempted to block just because he’s Trump.

John Endicott
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2019 11:11 am

So… You have nothing

That was obvious from the way he kept jumping from talking point to talking point every time the previous talking point was smacked down only to circle back to those previously smacked down talking points. it’s like a game of whack the mole.

John Endicott
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2019 11:35 am

Dave, since you might have missed this mole I figure I’d smack it for you 🙂

JPP: The government can’t build it there without either getting permission from the owner, or TAKING the land away from the owner by eminent domain

Other statutes afford additional emergency powers. Indeed, a report by the Congressional Research Service in 2007 stated, “Under the powers delegated by such statutes, the president may seize property, organize and control the means of production, seize commodities, assign military forces abroad, institute martial law, seize and control all transportation and communication, regulate the operation of private enterprise, restrict travel, and, in a variety of ways, control the lives of United States citizens.”

https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/424314-yes-trump-has-authority-to-declare-national-emergency-for-border-wall

Russ R.
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2019 1:39 pm

Trump already declared a “National Opioid Emergency”. Most of the heroin and fentanyl comes over the border. Building a wall closes the least secure route to bring it into the USA.
Acosta makes the case for Trump: https://www.foxnews.com/politics/cnns-jim-acosta-mocked-for-accidently-proving-that-border-walls-work

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  Floyd Doughty
January 9, 2019 4:44 pm

Floyd, the military has already been dispatched to the southern boarder. Are you telling us that our military can’t handle the job?

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 4:52 pm

Well Dave, if the military is already there, and they can handle the job, then there is no reason for a “National Emergency” to be declared.

R Shearer
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 5:33 pm

The fact that the military is there proves it is a national emergency. There were 42 national emergencies declared between 1976 and 2007 and at least two concerned trafficking, one of narcotics. The tie to the opioid crisis in obvious and legitimate.

R Shearer
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 5:35 pm

The President already made the case that a wall is needed. Neither, ICE or the military can handle the situation with additional tools.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 5:59 pm

“The fact that the military is there proves it is a national emergency.”

No, the military was sent there as a political stunt to ward off the hoards of women and children approaching the boarder seeking asylum.

J. Philip Peterson
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:02 pm

“The President already made the case that a wall is needed. ”

Fine, then all he needs to do is get Congress to appropriate the money for his “wall.” That’s how the system works. If Congress disagrees with him, and refuses to appropriate, then there isn’t much he can do.

Phil R
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 6:05 pm

Need to check your premises and conclusion. Both invalid and false.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 9, 2019 11:27 pm

Trump will build the wall with military funds if he has to. Despite the Democrats urge to commit national suicide by wanting open borders in a country that hands out welfare cheques and food stamps; the US people know in a primal way that Trump is right. The US simply cant afford 50000 people a month illegally entering the US and then applying for asylum and then getting welfare cheques while the applications are processed. That 50000 will turn into a 100000 a month and then 200000 a month. 3 billion people in the world would instantly move to the US if they could because a welfare cheque in the US is higher than their full time paying job. Democrats want to have these people in the US because they all vote Democrat to keep the welfare gravy train happening. The money is running out and Trump knows it. That is why a wall.

John Endicott
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2019 7:50 am

If Congress disagrees with him, and refuses to appropriate, then there isn’t much he can do.

As Obama showed (“If congress won’t act, I will”), when congress refuses there are other ways to go about accomplishing your goals. Invoking the National Emergencies Act is one possible way.

Michael 2
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2019 11:09 am

It is unlikely that the “Rules of Engagement” for military will allow them to do much.

John Endicott
Reply to  J. Philip Peterson
January 10, 2019 11:25 am

It is unlikely that the “Rules of Engagement” for military will allow them to do much.

????
Not sure what that non-sequitur is in reference to. Nobody is talking about military engagements (as in combat). What was touched up is the use of military *resources* (money, equipment & man-power) to possibly build the wall (or at least get it started).

Harold Gale
January 9, 2019 5:06 pm

In the Maggie Thatcher era in UK, there became known the >90% rule of privatization. The rule is that a government owned company can shed more than 90% of its workforce while improving product quality and quantity and level of service after going private. Such shedding usually took a couple of years, or more, in multiple steps, but nevertheless……. The new “Trump” rule seems to be showing the same magnitude of over-staffing even if in a different order.

Gary Pearse
January 9, 2019 6:46 pm

Gee how much time have we got if we dont get the evolutionary biologists back to work!

John Endicott
Reply to  Gary Pearse
January 10, 2019 5:56 am

Gee how much time have we got if we dont get the evolutionary biologists back to work!

work?

“You Keep Using That Word, I Do Not Think It Means What You Think It Means” – Inigo Montoya

Joel O'Bryan
January 9, 2019 8:26 pm

Still loving that GISS is on furlough. Regardless of anything else… that’s a win.

Alan Tomalty
January 9, 2019 11:12 pm

Sweden still hasnt got one after 4 months.

Russ R.
Reply to  griff
January 10, 2019 11:06 am

We survived, and prospered for over 200 years without an EPA. Average lifespan went up much faster, before the EPA was established, than it did after they were established. That clearly shows, with modern methods of “settled science” that the EPA is KILLING PEOPLE!!!!

Johann Wundersamer
January 11, 2019 1:08 am
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