Climate change leading to water shortage in Andes, Himalayas Rapidly melting glaciers causing similar problems on two continents

Heeeerrrreeee’ss Lonnie

(Lonnie Thompson has a whole category at Climate Audit)

From Eurekalert

Public Release: 17-Dec-2018

Ohio State University

Climate change could have devastating effects on vulnerable residents in the Andes mountains and the Tibetan plateau, according to researchers at The Ohio State University who have been studying glaciers in those areas for decades.

Their findings–that glaciers in both parts of the world are melting more rapidly than at any point in the last 10,000 years–mean the water supply in parts of Peru, Pakistan, China, India and Nepal will decline, soon.

“Supply is down. But demand is up because of growing populations,” said Lonnie Thompson, a climate scientist at Ohio State’s Byrd Polar and Climate Research Center. “By 2100, the best case scenario is that half of the ice will disappear. Worst-case scenario: two-thirds of it will. And you’ve got all those people depending on the glacier for water.”

Thompson, a distinguished university professor of earth sciences at Ohio State, presented the team’s findings on Dec. 14 at the annual meeting of the American Geophysical Union in Washington, D.C.

Thompson has been studying and documenting the effects of climate change on glaciers in Peru for more than 40 years. The glaciers there supply critically needed water for people, crops and livestock. In 2016, Thompson and researchers in China and India launched a research initiative to conduct similar research on the Tibetan plateau, which holds thousands of glaciers that supply water to people in parts of Afghanistan, Bhutan, China, India, Nepal, Pakistan and Tajikistan. The international research team dubbed the plateau the “Third Pole” because it contains the largest stores of freshwater in the world outside of the North and South poles.

Since then, they have drilled ice core samples from across the Tibetan plateau and the Andes mountains, examining the ice for clues about temperature, air quality and other large-scale events in history.

“The last 200 years or so, we really understand,” Thompson said. “Now we are looking at the last 10,000 years.”

What they are finding is causing him some alarm.

There have been times throughout history when the glacial ice cores showed temperatures increased–during an El Nino, for example. But within the last century, the cores from both the Andes and the Himalayas show widespread and consistent warming.

“This current warming is not typical,” Thompson said. “It is happening faster, it is more persistent and it is affecting glaciers in both Peru and India. And that is a problem, because a lot of people rely on those glaciers for their water.”

Melting glaciers can trigger such hazards as avalanches and floods. And they also can have long-lasting effects on a region’s water supply.

As the glaciers melt, initially those regions will have more water. But over time, as the glaciers shrink, the water those glaciers typically supply will dwindle, Thompson said.

“Precipitation is down and temperatures are up and that leads to retreating glaciers,” he said. “There are 202 million people in Pakistan who rely on water from the Indus River–and that river is fed by the glacier.

The effects in Peru, too, could be far-reaching, particularly on Peruvian agriculture and on the water supply in Lima, the Peruvian capital.

Thompson and his team are hoping that by studying the glaciers in both areas, they will find answers to slow glacial retreat–or to provide new water sources to at-risk areas.

“The problems are similar in both the Andes and the Tibetan plateau,” he said. “The hope is that by finding solutions, we can help both places.”


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Zig Zag Wanderer
December 18, 2018 6:03 pm

Melting glaciers do not reduce the water supply. That depends on rain or snow falls!

Nils Rømcke
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 18, 2018 6:20 pm

And without the glaciers you will get a more steady water supply . .

Doug Coombes
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 19, 2018 12:46 am

Where exactly do you think that the melt water from glaciers go. I get that people make up “stuff” here all the time, who knew that carbon dioxide doesn’t trap heat after it was demonstrated back in the 1850s that it in fact it does for instance.

But how can anyone claim that glaciers that are often at the headwaters of many rivers don’t provide part of the flow of the river. Which are the source of water for many places. Seems very sketchy to me to make such obviously false claims.

In the real world melting glaciers are going to place many people in a situation of poor water security.

“If most of it disappears, there will be extreme consequences for most of these regions,” Clarke said. “The stream flow will change, the timing of peak stream flow will change, and the temperature of streams will change.”

Even the total volume of runoff will change, added Michel Baraer, of McGill University, Montreal, Canada, because glacial ice keeps the water locked away in a form in which it doesn’t easily evaporate.

Thus, even if precipitation remains the same in the high mountains, more of the water will be in liquid form, which evaporates more quickly.

Building dams also will not solve the problem of decreasing runoff. “Evaporation from reservoirs is much higher than sublimation [conversion of solid into gas] from glaciers,” Baraer said. “Dams will never, ever, replace the [natural] hydrological systems that are in place today.”

I get that hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars have been spent to create an alternate reality that doesn’t threaten certain economic interests. That still doesn’t make the physical world go away. And in the real world glaciers feed many rivers and comprise an important part of water supplies.

Where does this fabrication nonsense end anyway. Personally I’ve always thought peas should be called beans and vice versa, who do I talk to here about getting that changed. Sounds ridiculous?

It’s no more ridiculous than grown people – mostly men from what I can see – playing make believe with an issue that is already causing huge damage to people and the world we all must share.

Too bad being so childish pays so well for some.

“In all, 140 foundations funneled $558 million to almost 100 climate denial organizations from 2003 to 2010.”

You can really see that money at work in the pure fantasy being presented as fact here.

(Your dismissive attitude to others here, funding fallacies are boring, you need to stop it and stick to the topic and debate the topic, otherwise I will start snipping your comments) MOD

Bob boder
Reply to  Doug Coombes
December 19, 2018 4:05 am

Doug do you believe that the glaciers create water?
Store it Yes, create it No, any water flow from a glacier is either from new precipitation or from melting of stored water. Shrinking glaciers during a warming cycle have always provided water for population growth, the problem is the unchecked population growth in those regions not melting glaciers.

Reply to  Doug Coombes
December 19, 2018 4:35 am

Wow, that is a lot of nonsense in one post.

No, CO2 doesn’t trap heat. It absorbs IR radiation which can then be either thermalized or re-emitted. You could just as correctly claim that asphalt traps light.

And glaciers don’t create water. They will increase streamflow when melting and decrease it when growing. They can also redistribute the flow during the year, from winter to summer thus evening out river flow. However this does not apply to Himalaya which has dry winters and summer monsoon. There glaciers instead increase stream seasonality.

The argument about decreasing evaporation may be true in some cases, though sublimation from glaciers is appreciable, particularly in the tropics. And remember that the snow then has to melt into liquid form “which evaporates more quickly” before going into rivers. In the tropics the total amount of evaporative loss is probably larger if the water has to lie around on a glacier for any length of time instead of going into the ground. This is how a tropical glacier looks after evaporative erosion:

comment image

“Dams will never, ever, replace the [natural] hydrological systems that are in place today.”

No of course not, but they will provide more water more reliably for human use. Blow up all the dams in California and come back a few years later and see how many people survived.

Patrick B
Reply to  Doug Coombes
December 19, 2018 6:21 am

Any comment silly enough to quote both National Geographic and Scientific American isn’t worth discussion.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Doug Coombes
December 19, 2018 6:26 am

Doug, do you think glaciers, or climate for that matter, should remain static, never changing? Do you think that’s EVER been the case? If the glaciers were advancing, what kind of alarmism would we hear then?


It sounds like you are the “climate denier”.

Reply to  Doug Coombes
December 19, 2018 10:56 am

Doug, where do you think the water that forms the glacier comes from?

PS: Your funding claims were completely refuted the last time you posted them.
Are you going to be one of those trolls who drops in the repeat the same lies, over and over again?

Thomas P Gannett
Reply to  Doug Coombes
December 19, 2018 9:10 pm

carbon dioxide , in fact, does not trap heat in the earth system. The transport of heat requires a physical medium which the vacuum of space does not supply (no ether). Heat can only leave earth by conversion to electromagnetic photons and radiating into the very cold sky. The absorption of certain wavelengths of infrared radiation may change the rate of radiative energy loss, but so far I have not seen an argument based on this mechanistic concept. Talking about heating the earth system by trapping heat is sloppy physics.

T Gannett retired photochemist.

Ron Long
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 19, 2018 2:08 am

Right on, zigzag and others. I live at the east foot of the Andes and have just crossed the Andes via pass El Conquistador. The water flow in the rivers is down, and the snowpack is down, and glaciers have nothing to do with it. By the way, at least half of the water content of glaciers is lost to ablation and never becomes water in a river system. CTM should snip! these professors where it would do the most good, just saying.

Henning Nielsen
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 19, 2018 7:38 am

Oh please! Zillions of Indians go every day to the glaciers to hack out their daily ration of ice. Then one not so fine day, the ice is not there! Desiccated and dying Indians all over the foothills!

“O Evil Westerner, on your head is my demise.”

December 18, 2018 6:04 pm


Run in circles,
scream and shout.

Another it worse than he thought alarmist.

Reply to  ATheoK
December 18, 2018 6:09 pm

In the year 2100 🙂

Zig Zag Wanderer
December 18, 2018 6:07 pm

“Supply is down. But demand is up because of growing populations,” said Lonnie Thompson, a climate scientist at Ohio State’s Byrd Polar and Climate Research Center.

As the glaciers melt, initially those regions will have more water. But over time, as the glaciers shrink, the water those glaciers typically supply will dwindle, Thompson said.

They need to get their story straight with this ‘settled science’!

Bill Powers
Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 19, 2018 7:33 am

Its a grab bag. Mix and Mis-match. Just say alarming things to scare people even if they don’t make any logical sense. That is the special magic of Climate Alarmism.

“It was a dark and stormy night…”

Reply to  Zig Zag Wanderer
December 19, 2018 8:10 am

If over time the glaciers are shrinking, it is the reduced precipitation which causes the decline in river flow(and the size of the glacier). A glacier acts merely as capacitance in the circuit. It can’t add voltage.

Reply to  Rocketscientist
December 20, 2018 5:07 am

“It can’t add voltage”.

But it can add current (stayin in the picture).

December 18, 2018 6:08 pm

““By 2100, the best case scenario is that half of the ice will disappear. Worst-case scenario: two-thirds of it will. And you’ve got all those people depending on the glacier for water.”
I’m a little confused. If the glaciers are melting and glacial melt supplies their water, then how can there be a water shortage ?

Reply to  Marcus
December 20, 2018 5:12 am

Critical is often the Summer runoff.
This depends on the size of the remaining glacier.

In case the glacier looses area, the summer runoff (during dry weather) will be reduced.

Steve Keohane
December 18, 2018 6:14 pm

If the glaciers were not melting, there would be less water now…

Robin Beran
December 18, 2018 6:14 pm

100 years out of 4 1/2 billion. Why is this even published?

December 18, 2018 6:19 pm

More extrapolation over an extended period.

I weigh 200 pounds and I gained five pounds last week. Therefore I will weigh more than 450 pounds by Christmas a year from now….and the after that, OMG!

Reply to  Lokki
December 18, 2018 7:05 pm

Lokki, forget about eating less. You need to stop using fossil fuels, pay more taxes, and help establish a one-world government.

It’s the solution to everything, including that extra 5 pounds.

Reply to  Lokki
December 18, 2018 7:09 pm

No, no, no, no!
We just got done with Sea Level Rise with acceleration.
If you have been following along, you know by now that the only way to extrapolate into the future (to make a projection as per the IPCC) is to use an exponential.
Your simple two point medical issue produces a curve with an exponential of 1.0356.
When we run this forward another 52 weeks to next Christmas:

You weigh —— 23,515 lbs.

It’s worse than you thought, better watch those holiday treats.
(Just here to help.)

December 18, 2018 6:28 pm

If it’s not catastrophic, then it can be mitigated through non-intrusive measures. If it’s not anthropogenic (a la Pro-Choice), then what influence do people… persons wield over a process that was modeled in isolation then extrapolated to global proportions in a statistical average calculated from a hypothesis (e.g. model) of a hypothesis (Catastrophic Anthropogenic Global Warming)?

December 18, 2018 6:29 pm

“The international research team dubbed the plateau the ‘Third Pole’ because it contains the largest stores of freshwater in the world outside of the North and South poles.”

Is Greenland’s ice fields included in the North Pole’s ice fields?

Reply to  noaaprogrammer
December 19, 2018 4:46 am

Nonsense. The term “Third Pole” is used because of the climatological effects of the cold high pressure area over the plateau in winter. And if there is so much fresh water there, how come the plateau and surrounding areas are mostly desert?

The amount of water in Himalayan glaciers is estimated to be about 4000 Gt, i e about a fifth of the amount in the Great Lakes (23,000 Gt). Are they poles 4 through 8 one wonders?

Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
December 18, 2018 6:32 pm

This sounds familiar. Weren’t all the Himalayan glaciers going to melt by 2035 with “high” confidence?

Ah yes, I remembered correctly.

I think Steve McIntyre referred to Lonnie Thompson as a “serial non-archiver” of research data.

Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
December 18, 2018 10:36 pm

MSM wonder why the IPCC reports were only “noted” at CP24, nothing to do with “past form”.

patrick healy
Reply to  Alan Watt, Climate Denialist Level 7
December 19, 2018 8:14 am

yes Alan, I seem to remember some train driver or alleged molester being involved. His name escapes me but it sounded Irish. Pat O’Toury or something/ sarc,

December 18, 2018 6:35 pm

There will be a big grant coming to Thompson and his team to encourage them to unearth even more devastating worst scenarios.

Tom Halla
December 18, 2018 6:55 pm

At the rate the Chinese are damming rivers, there would be about the same level of water storage as currently exists in the glaciers. Or is Dr Thompson predicting an extended drought, too?

Alan Tomalty
December 18, 2018 7:09 pm

Garbage. A complete garbage report Even if all 200000 glaciers in the world completely melted, sea level would rise only 400mm which is less than 16 inches. The estimates that the researchers used for the year 2100 are based on computer models that take the highest melting rates that they can ascribe to the glaciers and then project out another 82 years . Glaciers DO NOT melt at the same rate ever, from year to year. Glaciers don’t magically produce water from nothing. They collect water in winter and melt in the summer. If the glacier wasn’t there there would still be the same amount of water flowing from their valleys. Himalayan glaciers have been slowly melting for 400 years. Each year the net loss of the Himalayan glaciers is around 0.2%. Glaciers have had higher rates of melting long before the invention of SUV’s.

Wiliam Haas
December 18, 2018 7:28 pm

If not enough water is available then they should move to areas where more water is available. The problem is not climate change but rather over population.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Wiliam Haas
December 18, 2018 9:27 pm

Glaciers do not provide water. If the glaciers weren’t there the rain would still fall. If all 200000 glaciers in the world melted the sea would rise 400 mm (less than 16 inches). The Glaciers have been melting for 400 years. The melt rate of the Himalayas has bee ~ 0.2% per year. At some point the glaciers will start advancing again. There were less glaciers in the 1930’s than now.

Jeff Alberts
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
December 19, 2018 6:32 am

“There were less glaciers in the 1930’s than now.”

Just a nit, but it should be “fewer glaciers”. You could say “less glacial mass”, or something to that effect.

Reply to  Alan Tomalty
December 20, 2018 5:23 am

Hi Alan,

Where Is your “There” located in “There were less glaciers in the 1930’s than now.”

Moderately Cross of East Anglia
Reply to  Wiliam Haas
December 19, 2018 10:31 am

I think you must mean over population as in “over here” instead of “over there” where there is no water problem.

People are not a problem, just the demented hysteria of the “end of world and it’s all our fault” few with nothing better to contribute to progress.

Michael Jankowski
December 18, 2018 7:31 pm

Imagine if you’d been studying those glaciers for three decades…and had nothing of consequence to report.

Michael Jankowski
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
December 18, 2018 7:32 pm

(Make that 4 decades)

old construction worker
Reply to  Michael Jankowski
December 19, 2018 3:21 am

‘….and had nothing of consequence to report.’ You would loose your job of studying glaciers. o

John F. Hultquist
December 18, 2018 7:37 pm

Well, regardless of what is happening, instead of wasting more money on UN Climate Parties, the money could be used to use water more effectively. Shut up and get busy.
Consider that if the region should become colder, there would be less runoff, and more ice that doesn’t melt.
Glaciers would advance and lands would disappear under many meters of ice.

steve case
December 18, 2018 7:49 pm

When the glaciers melt, it will still rain and snow and the river will still flow. But then I’m #20 to say that, Zag Zag started off with that obvious observation. Why does this canard persist?

Crispin in Waterloo
December 18, 2018 8:08 pm

I suppose of the land ice melts, we will have to settle for running water. Glaciers melting doesn’t stop it raining.

And, if you are really interested in the melting of ice, surely you have to worry about Arctic ice melting too. Don’t miss Tony Heller’s Part 2:

You will be laughing before you are through this round up of all the Arctic Ice data that you didn’t know was available.

Reply to  Crispin in Waterloo
December 18, 2018 9:11 pm

Most mountains have no glaciers, but they do have rivers and streams flowing from them.
I have to wonder if Lonnie is stupid, or if he thinks other people are?

Zig Zag Wanderer
Reply to  Menicholas
December 18, 2018 11:47 pm

I have to wonder if Lonnie is stupid, or if he thinks other people are?


Crispin in Waterloo
December 18, 2018 8:34 pm

I wonder if these authors can do arithmetic.

If a glacier is “depended on for water” then it must be melting. You cannot drink a glacier, you have to drink water after the glacier melts.

So, according to common sense, the glacier grows in winter and melts in summer. And how does it grow? I believe that water in the form of rain and snow falls from the sky and collects in valleys, expanding the glacier in winter. I believe that, because they said the glaciers have been depended on for centuries so there must be a waxing and waning of the ice pack up there.

Fine. Now, raise the temperatures. The rain and snow keep falling and instead of freezing and being locked up in the Fall, it runs down the rivers as it does in summer. Normally that river dries up in the Fall. I know this because I went to Tajikistan a couple of years ago and observed it. In winter there is nearly no water in the rivers because it is captured by the snowfields. In spring, it melts and fills the rivers. That is why people have 2 hrs a day of electricity in winter when they really need it most, and lots of electricity in summer when they don’t need much at all.

Now in the warming climate the freezing starts later and the melting starts earlier so the rivers run more of the time but less dangerously. How is that a problem? The annual water flow in the river is no different, it fills the dams and irrigation channels and river beds more evenly, that’s all. How is that a problem? How is that “running out of water”?

You might want to know where such a stupid idea grew wings and you need look no further than the Grauniad of Ye Olde London Towne. A certain Moonbat there made much of the melting of Tibetan glaciers in a TV series intimating that if they melted, there would be no water left. Huh? The arithmetic applied is so defective that they have it that a glacier can grow and wane annually as long as it is needed to provide water, but that precipitation falling from the sky will cease, literally, if there is no glacier there to catch it and hog it all winter.

If literally all the glaciers on the Tibetan Plateau melted, there would still be snow in winter and water in summer, but the rivers would run for much more of the year and they could generate hydro power at much lower cost instead of having to build enormous dams. I suppose they could build them anyway and sell the renewable power to the Pakistanis needing air conditioning. Let’s say, 3.6 GW worth.

When finished it will be 43% higher than the Hoover Dam. The Hoover Dam, remember, was built to solve the problem of snow pack and glaciers melting suddenly in spring and flooding the farmland instead of running down the Colorado river all year. So I think we can safely say that talk of the Tibetan Plateau running out of water if the glaciers melt is poppycock.

December 18, 2018 8:36 pm

Yet another catastrophic tipping point.
The landscape and the oceans are now strewn with tipping points – we live in dangerous times!
Why is she a distinguished university professor?
Does she wear polka dotted hot pants which really distinguish her?

December 18, 2018 9:07 pm

“Thompson and his team are hoping that by studying the glaciers in both areas, they will find answers to slow glacial retreat–or to provide new water sources to at-risk areas.”

So these guys think they are God, and can slow the melting of glaciers.
Even better, they can provide new water sources that the local peasants don’t know about.

Where have they been hiding all this time? The world awaits!

Reply to  William
December 18, 2018 10:18 pm

Beat me to it.

+ however many you want

David E Long
December 18, 2018 9:44 pm

Why do I read articles that start with “Climate change could…”

Reply to  David E Long
December 19, 2018 1:05 am

Ah, but it DIDN’T start with “could”, did it.

Climate change leading to water shortage in Andes, Himalayas.
Rapidly melting glaciers causing similar problems on two continents

From the title, it sure sounds like those shortages are already happening. It’s only when you read further that you start running into the ‘could’ and ‘may’ qualifiers.

It’s tricks like this that are the reason that half of the people think ‘Climate Change’ (aka CAGW) is ‘already happening’.


December 18, 2018 9:47 pm

Build some dams. Problem solved. Where is my grant money.

old construction worker
Reply to  Pathway
December 19, 2018 3:34 am

If you really wanted to create more busy work instead of building dams install snow making machine on top of the mountain range powered by solar panels.

December 18, 2018 9:49 pm

Ohio University. Oh dear; another university destroying the reputation of academia.

December 18, 2018 9:54 pm

The only reason junk science gets published is because governments will pay for it.
In the late 1500s, the Fugger Bank out of Augsburg was huge and published a financial letter.
One reviewed that only princes and their governments were foolish enough to pay an alchemist to turn lead into, well, gold.
Notwithstanding Kepler’s genius in solving the planetary orbits, his government paid him to cast horoscopes. He needed the money and government needed the astrology.
Today, economists and central bankers are equivalent to astrologers and alchemists.

Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
Reply to  Bob Hoye
December 19, 2018 1:04 am

Please find below my observations — available at fao-fsn webpage of comments:
Contribution to
“Food Security and Nutrition: Building a Global narrative towards 2030”

The definitions of food and nutrition security vary with crops grown over (a) developed versus developing counties; (b) regions within the country; (c) rainfed versus irrigated agriculture; (d) polluted water versus non-polluted water; (e) chemical fertilizers versus non-chemical fertilizers; (f) adulterated food versus wastage of food versus using chemicals-preservatives for the preservation/ripening of fruits, etc. For example in Ethiopia around the capital city Addis Ababa [moderate rainfall zone] “tef” is the major staple food crop grown; but when you move to northwest [moderate to high rainfall zones] barley, wheat, tef, etc. are staple food crops grown; and in the southeast [low rainfall zones] millets + pulses are staple food crops grown, mostly under rainfed condition.
In India the staple food crops have changed with the green revolution technology: millets + pulses + oilseeds under rainfed + farmyard/green manure conditions have changed to rice + wheat under irrigation + chemical inputs. Crops/cropping systems were replaced by monocrop system. Thus, the fodder produced is of poor quality. As this is not suitable for as an animal feed, they are burnt in the crop field. In the northern parts of India they are burnt in winter. This is the major contributor of Air pollution and thus causing health hazards. The capital city of India, Delhi is the classic example for this disaster. Government is encouraging rice + wheat under heavily subsidized public distribution system [PDS]. Also, these crops are grown under subsidized chemical inputs. These are contributing to air, water, soil & food pollution and thus causing health hazards and it in turn causing pollution through drug manufacturing industry and hospitals, a vicious circle of pollution.
State governments are encouraging polluted food production under irrigation. However on 7th December 2018 FAO approved Indian proposal to observe 2023 as an International Year of Millets. Millets consists of sorghum, pearl millet, finger millet and minor millets. They are termed as nutri-cereals. However, the Indian scenario is to counter any such move, multinational companies (MNCs) are ready with new ideas such as “free kits – chemical fertilizers + hybrid rice-maize/corn” that generate polluted food. On our proposal government included in Food Security Bill of 2013 sorghum, pearl millet and finger millets at Rs. 1 per kg [rice Rs. 3/kg & wheat Rs. 2/kg]. But, the state governments are not providing them to PDS outlets. The state governments must encourage production of millets and procurement by paying minimum support price and supply them to PDS outlets.
CIAT published in “PLOS ONE” on November 19, 2018 on Climate-smart agriculture adding too many adjectives based on fiction. We call it “kichadi” agriculture. They claim that climate-smart agriculture boosts yields, mitigates extreme weather impact and reduces greenhouse gas emissions. They point to profitable opportunities for farmers and the environment. They state that “The two-punch combination of climate change and poor agricultural land management can be combined with simple measures that keep farms productive and profitable. CIAT study was funded by International Fund for Agricultural Development [IFAD]. One of the so-called climate-smart agriculture practices is crop rotation. By digging mountain they catch a rat. In fact this was an age-old practice but this was masqued by the introduction of chemical input mono crop technology. Two decades back I wrote a series of articles in daily newspapers to educate farmers on the importance of crop rotation. Tobacco farmers follow the crop rotation in India. However, with other crops only few farmers follow this voluntarily. In climate-smart agriculture, like all eminent groups in agriculture sector, CIAT also using climate change as an adjective.
In all the countries, climate, more particularly rainfall and temperature are different and thus cropping seasons are different. In colder regions single crop is grown per year and in the tropical warm countries, if water is available up to three crops are grown in a year. The extreme weather conditions have been attributed to global warming. Also, UN agencies are attributing recent prevailing drought conditions in southern Africa and Brazil to global warming. This is false propaganda only. In fact droughts & floods are part of natural rhythm [cyclic variations] in precipitation and heat & cold waves are part of general circulation pattern existing in a given countries, like Western disturbances in India. Add to this, the quality of production is highly variable with pollution [air, water, soil & food]. Under this scenario, to achieve sustainability in quality production we must quantify those variables [climate & pollution] per region, per country.
To achieve nutritious food, farming must include animal husbandry. Sea food-meat-fruits are different entity. Governments must plan to reduce the food wastage and agriculture system that provides socio-economic security to farmers. As per 2015, In India total population is 125.6 crores and rural population is 86.82 crores. The rural population constitutes 68.86% of total population. The total farmers population is 12.313 crores [14.24% of total population] and agriculture labour force is 14.969 crores [17.31% of total population]. Both jointly account 31.55% of rural population and 21.72% of total population. However, people are not only directly associated with agriculture, there are several entities that have been associated indirectly with agriculture sector, like services providers. Also the farm size is coming down drastically with the progression of the time on an average from 2.28 ha in 1970-71 to 1.08 ha in 2015-16 with the population growth. Also, diversion of agriculture land for non-agriculture purposes is increasing with the time, though governments’ statistics are not truly reflecting these. In such scenarios, the best system is traditional agriculture, with organic manure until animal husbandry form part of it, under cooperative farming mechanism. This system helps better utilization of resources, including natural resources.
With regional political parties’ entry in a big way in to Indian political arena, agriculture became the scapegoat of vote bank politics. These institutions destroyed well established practices and in its place providing financial incentives over above the central governments subsidies. Let me present a case of Telangana state wherein the government implemented (1) under Rhythu Bhandu scheme paid Rs. 8,000 per acre for 140.47 lakh acres; (2) though announced life insurance cover to farmers, it is applicable to only few farmers; (3) implemented loan waiver scheme but it is applicable to few farmers who took loans from banks. Central government implementing input subsidy and providing few other benefits including insurance under different names. The main beneficiaries with insurance associated with agriculture sector are the insurance companies.
In Telangana state, nearly 50% of the cultivated area is under cotton and chilies. Major share of subsidized chemical pesticides/insecticides have been used for these crops only. There is high year to year variation in cultivated area & yield. In the case of cotton, during 2016-17 the area under cotton cultivation was 30.2 lakh acres, in 2017-18 it was 47.5 lakh acres and in 2018-19 it is 42.3 lakh acres of the 162 lakh acres of cultivable land. A report states that during 2018-19 farmers’ spent Rs. 25,000-30,000 on inputs per acre. During 2017-18 the yield per acre was 10-15 quintals and price was low. During 2018-19 the yield per acre was low, 3 to 5 quintals. The price was reasonable (Rs. 5450 per quintal) but CCI putting too many queries for procuring on the quality and thus the farmers were compelled to sell it to middlemen at lower price.
The low cotton yields during 2018-19 were due to (a) drought condition, (b) adulterated seed/GM seed and (c) pink bollworm infestation with GM seed. Government did little on such hazards that push the farmers in to debt trap. In fact, this is what the farmers need. Before Telangana became separate state, it was a seed capital of India. Now the government claims the same but it is not so. The state government could not stop the sale of adulterated seed; illegal GM seeds production and commercial cultivation – they include BG-III cotton & several GM food crops. Illegal means that the central government has not cleared for cultivation in India. UN agencies should have played a crucial role to stop such activities of MNCs in developing countries. With GM crops the silent sufferers are the neighbouring farmers with infestation.
The government makes statement every other day that they will give water to one crore acres. At present 50% of the area is under well irrigation wherein groundwater is depleting with the time very fast. Agriculture has been carried out with toxic water [ground and surface]. That means not achieved sustainability in water availability in quantity & quality. Irrigation projects were put in cold storage for decades and thus still around 60% of the cultivated area is at the mercy of “Rain God”. In 7th and 8th Five Year Plan periods instead of irrigation projects implemented Watershed Programme in India. In Andhra Pradesh [undivided] it was implemented in 94 watersheds in 19 districts [except Guntur, Krishna and West Godavari – Rice bowl belt]. During Yerracheruvu watershed near Anantapur, in the base year 1983-84 the groundnut yields were 8.90 q/ha and the lowest yield of 3.23 q/ha was recorded during 1989-90 and the highest yield of 18.40 q/ha was recorded during 1986-87. This is due to erratic rainfall, characteristic of this zone with the drought proneness of 50-60% of the years. The farmers and politicians countered the crop rotation by saying if crop fails let the government compensate the farmer. Similar argument was put forth by sugarcane societies in Maharashtra. If crop fails let the government compensate it.
One of the constantly repeated, sympathy-seeking messages by politicians, by UN & UN Agencies, agencies such as World Bank, alarmists, by the mainstream media, and by brainwashed good-intentioned people, is that “the world’s poorest countries have been hit hardest by human-induced global warming”. The other word linked to this is the human health. A false alarm created by vested interest groups. The classic example to this is the subsidized food provided by Indian government wherein around 58% of it entered the “black market” accounting to thousands of crores of 1.6 lakh crores spent on food subsidy per year.
A recent report by World Health Organization of United Nations (WHO) at the UNFCCC Conference (COP24) in Katowice on December 5, 2018 noted that “A million lives in the world can be saved if countries cut air pollution levels as per the Paris Agreement by 2050”. Here they are misusing the word pollution. The WHO Director General states that “The Paris Agreement is potentially the strongest health agreement of the century”. Also he states that “The evidence is clear that climate change is already having a serious impact on human lives and health. It threatens the basic elements we all need for good health – clean air, safe drinking water, nutritious food supply and safe shelter”. Here he is trying to mix Paris agreement with general issues. All these form part of constant stream of global warming/climate change disinformation? Carbon dioxide is not a pollution.
Unfortunately, UN agencies such as FAO, WHO; agencies like World Bank, CGIAR, etc. haven’t raised the danger signals on food produced under chemical inputs [GM is also works under chemical inputs] and pollution [soil & water]. Naturally, when such products are sold through food market chains, people buy them. Thus, nobody takes blame on consequent health hazards. The impact of on earnings was highlighted by Stan Cox in his book “Sick Plant: Corporate Food and Medicine” – I contributed to pollution section chapter. Production of medicine and hospitals generate more pollution [water & air]. Unknowingly people eat and buy health problems. Corporate and contract farming outputs are vulnerable to such hazards.
Climate is dynamic. Climate change was there in the past; it is there at present; and will be there in the future. However with preconceived notions, scientific groups mislead the community. Often scientific community (?) uses truncated data series of a rhythmic variation series and present sensational inferences that mislead the agriculture scientists in specific and in general readers. A data series that present cyclic variation, present increasing trend in one arm and decreasing trend in the other arm of a sine curve. In agriculture the main component of climate change that is of importance is natural variability in rainfall. The so-called global warming is insignificant when compared to seasonal and annual variations in temperature. Global level is important for collection and spending of billions of dollars under green fund – this is clearly evident at COP24. Health is wealth but money makes many things!!! In the “global warming”, the word “global” is a misnomer. In addition to the Sun, Climate System plays the main role on local weather and thus climate. They only play the important role in agriculture and not the so-called global warming.
Ecological changes include both heat-island and cold-island effects. The surface data was not adjusted for cold island effect. So we get warmer condition. The so-called heat island effect correction is highly bogus as in the urban areas, the heat-island effect may not affect the met station but it changes the atmospheric lapse rate. This is also true with cold island effect. Under heat-island affects the temperature increases over the standard atmospheric lapse rate with height and decreases with cold-island effect. Thus, the balance must reduce the temperature on land surface. This was clearly reflected in satellite data [original]. But this was replaced with warmer pattern [current satellite data] to cooperative with warmist’s propaganda. In this there is no role of carbon dioxide. In urban areas air pollution is short lived [one day] affect the health directly unlike carbon dioxide with long life and accumulates with the time.
Brain in Knee Technologies were invented recently that (a) global warming is causing severe droughts and floods by WMO/UN Secretary General in 2013, (b) organic farming is contributing global warming by Stefan Wirsenius from Chalmers University of Technology in Sweden [published in Journal Nature], etc.
Forefathers developed, based on their hundreds of years of experience, agriculture and horticultural systems that fit in to the soil and climate systems including cyclonic activity. With new technologies, developed with few years’ experience, increased the risk with the soil and climate system. Thus, it created “technology drought” over traditional weather based drought. The inefficiency in water use under irrigated agriculture added another “inefficiency drought”.
Now people of developing countries are severely affected by the adulterated food including milk. Fruits are treated with chemicals. Chemicals are used to ripening of mango fruits. Oil is extracted from dead animals and mixed with others. Bt-cotton seed oil is produced illegally. Even though this is a major hazard the people of India are facing, the rulers are looking at real estate business at the cost of destruction of environment. Poor ethics and poor governance is ruling the roots of the nation. UN agencies can do something on such issues???
In conclusion,
• As long as soil and water pollution play the role in agriculture, we may achieve production in quantity but not in quality;
• As long as we follow chemical input-mono crop agriculture system we rarely achieve the nutrition security;
• The foods supplied through market chain are unhealthy food excluding organic foods, whatever may be claims of the suppliers;
• UN agencies and agencies like World Bank must work and help in the eradication of role of pollution in agriculture instead of wasting money on issues like “global warming and carbon credits”;
• However, under vote bank politics the chances of implementation of agricultural technology that provides socio-economic, food-nutrition security and that is environment friendly are bleak; particularly with changing guard frequently. However there is an urgent need for improving the quality of life of farming community and to achieve this goal:
o Rulers must keep vote bank agenda aside and develop national policy on agriculture technology and financial assistance programmes to agriculture sector, more particularly to farming community;
o To achieve this goal states and central agriculture ministries must come together; and as well at state level both ruling and opposition leaders must come together to evaluate the policy and give concrete suggestions;
o By taking into account such suggestions from the states, the centre must bring out the policy document and implement the same. This will also save the wasteful expenditure.
• The governments must think seriously to eradicate the production and sale of adulterated food stuff; treating fruits with chemicals; etc.
• Instead of harping on global warming and wasting billions of dollars on them,
o UN agencies must plan to help the nations by encouraging studies related natural variability in rainfall and thus adapting agriculture to such variations;
o UN agencies must plan to help the nations by building agriculture systems like organic farming + animal husbandry under cooperative agriculture structure;
From: Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
Formerly Chief Technical Advisor – WMO/UN & Expert-FAO/UN
Fellow, Telangana Academy of Sciences
Convenor, Forum for a Sustainable Environment; (040) 23550480

Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
December 18, 2018 9:56 pm

In 2014 a study of 2181 Himalayan Glaciers from 2000-2011 showed that 86.6% of the glaciers were not receding. This was informed to Indian Parliament by the Minister of Forests & Environment and Climate Change after his return from Paris meet in December 2015. Also heavy snnowfall recorded in the last two years in Himalayan Zones. IPPCC also withdrew its conclusion on Himalayan Glaciers will melt by 2035.

The frequency of high magnitude floods in Chenab, Ravi and Beas followed the 60-year cycle in the southwest monsoon rainfall of India. The rivers data was published in “State of Environment Report, India — 2009 MoEF/GoI”

Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy

Reply to  Dr. S. Jeevananda Reddy
December 18, 2018 11:02 pm

Thank you, Dr. Reddy.

Stanley Parks
December 18, 2018 10:32 pm

Let’s not overlook Lonnie’s role in Gore’s ‘An Inconvenient Truth” (2006).

“And now we’re beginning to see the impact in the real world. This is Mount Kilimanjaro more than 30 years ago, and more recently. And a friend of mine just came back from Kilimanjaro with a picture he took a couple of months ago. Another friend of mine Lonnie Thompson studies glaciers. Here’s Lonnie with a sliver of a once mighty glacier. Within the decade there will be no more snows of Kilimanjaro.”

Twelve years later it is still snowing on Kilimanjaro.


“Days 0-3 Mount Kilimanjaro Weather Summary:
A heavy fall of snow, heaviest during Wed morning. Becoming milder with heavy rain (total 28.0mm) on Fri night. Temperatures will be slightly above freezing (max 2°C on Wed morning, min 1°C on Wed morning). Wind will be generally light.

Days 4-6 Mount Kilimanjaro Weather Summary:
A heavy fall of snow, heaviest during Sun morning. Becoming milder with light rain (total 9.0mm) on Mon afternoon. Temperatures will be slightly above freezing (max 2°C on Sat afternoon, min 1°C on Sat morning). Wind will be generally light.”

December 18, 2018 11:48 pm

Anyway we do not need to worry. After all we keep on being told that the world id getting hotter. Now Earth is a water planet, so warmer means more evaporation, so the rain does not freeze, it just comes down the river system, Problem solved.


December 19, 2018 12:04 am

“..glaciers in both parts of the world are melting more rapidly than at any point in the last 10,000 years…”

And what caused the greater melting 10,001 years ago?

December 19, 2018 12:06 am

I am sure Lonnie Thompson knows that most water in the Himalaya’s come from monsoon rain, but he is deliberately hiding his mind in ice: a True Believer of CACW.

Reply to  AntonyIndia
December 19, 2018 4:56 am

Certainly he knows. Winters are so dry that that the plateau is usually snowless despite the extreme cold. The little snow that falls mostly sublimates away.

This winter is a partial exception by the way, there is a fair amount of snow on the plateau:

December 19, 2018 2:18 am

The sad thing is that, much like Richard Alley, there once was a time when Lonnie Thompson was a serious glacial geoligist.

Reply to  David Middleton
December 19, 2018 4:52 am

Yeah, but as Mark Twain said, “that was so long ago that it is a lie now”.

December 19, 2018 3:00 am

Skepticism related to climate change has now become ridiculous, and the reduction of carbon dioxide emissions has also failed due to economic interests. The only realistic option is geoengineering, so this may be another goal of sick skepticism.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  malkom700
December 19, 2018 4:48 am

Wrong. Geoengineering is an expensive, dangerous, and extremely stupid idea dreamed up by Warmunists, and often used as a straw man by them, for a “problem” that only exists in their weak brains.

December 19, 2018 4:39 am

If this is representative of the quality of work of a distinguished professor, I dread to think what an undistinguished one would produce.

December 19, 2018 4:50 am

Lonnie Thompson is famous as the man who never ever makes any of his data available if there is any conceivable way he can avoid it.

Bruce Cobb
December 19, 2018 5:14 am

The dishonesty and disingenuity of Alarmists is quite remarkable. Take this statement, for example: “There have been times throughout history when the glacial ice cores showed temperatures increased–during an El Nino, for example.” Really? That’s her “example” of when temperatures increased “throughout history”? The Climate Liars continue to try to disappear the MWP, and other warm periods of the Holocene, and pretend they never happened, because it helps them present their other Big Lie, that the current warming since the LIA is particularly fast, or unusual in any way.

December 19, 2018 5:59 am

There is less ice than 18000 years ago and we are still here. Oceans rose 400 feet we are still here. Oceans were even higher in prior interglacials we are still here. The Roman ports are miles inland now indicating sea level was higher 2000 years ago and yet we are still here. Leading me to conclude we will adapt to whatever we have to. The weak will die off and the herd will stabilize.

Reply to  David
December 19, 2018 8:45 am

“Roman ports are miles inland now…” Either sea level was higher or land was lower, or some combination of both.

December 19, 2018 6:01 am
Pamela Gray
December 19, 2018 6:40 am

Glaciers melt? I did not know that. I assumed the Wallowa Lake terminal moraine story about a melting glacier flooding the Wallowa Valley area 10’s of thousands of years ago was just local folk lore! And don’t get me started on the Lostine Canyon and its multiple terminal moraines, indicating, now that I have been told that glaciers melt, several episodes of melt and regrowth to different spots. So what I want to know is who caused the CO2 boogeyman back then?

Funny about those Wallowa Mountain glaciers. While they were melting, the valley was nothing but a stinky swamp with very little going for it. My back of the envelope educated guess is that glacier growth was likely as hard on surrounding flora and fauna as much as glacier melt was. Kinda glad those glaciers are gone.

December 19, 2018 7:23 am

‘Climate change could have devastating effects on vulnerable residents in the Andes mountains’

‘Vulnerable’ residents? What about the others?

Who knew that people live in the Andes?

“By 2100, the best case scenario is that half of the ice will disappear. Worst-case scenario: two-thirds of it will. And you’ve got all those people depending on the glacier for water.”

Too late; it’s already gone.

A quick look at the Andes on Google Earth, pic dated 12/30/2016 (summer), show very little glaciation AT ALL. There is a very slight bit in Peru. If you zoom in a good bit, you can see it SE of Lima, near the Bolivian border.

The picture doesn’t match his rhetoric.

Robert W Turner
December 19, 2018 7:24 am

I followed all the links I could and I couldn’t find where any actual research was done. This must be some of that “just believe me I’m a climate scientist” type of work.

Steven Mosher
December 19, 2018 7:37 am

Somebody tell that Ice that it’s not allowed to melt from such a tiny increase in anomalies!

December 19, 2018 8:44 am

“Climate change could have devastating effects”

In other news: I could win the lottery tomorrow. My son could grow up to be the next Albert Einstein. Trump could get congress to agree to fund the wall. Windmills could become a reliable source of cheap electricity.

OK…that last one may not be entirely accurate…

December 19, 2018 10:02 am

Looking at the Snow Departure Chart – The variance from historical normal in Asia ranges from +/- 5 cm, since they are the same color, to + 80cm. I’ve been monitoring The Canadian Crysopheric Information website for a couple of years now, and the results of past years has been similar.

Eurasia – Snow Extent is near the top of the range of one standard deviation, and the Snow Water Equivalent is above standard deviation. So comparing long term averages, more area is covered in snow and the snow pack is deeper.

North America – Snow Extent is near the bottom of the range of one standard deviation, and the Snow Water Equivalent is at the top one standard deviation. So comparing long term averages, a less area is covered in snow, and the snow pack is deeper.

Shows a positive trend of Snow Cover Extent both North America .18M km^2, and Eurasia .25M km^2

This does not lead to the continued claim of melting glaciers in the Himalayas.

December 19, 2018 10:20 am

High level glaciers don’t melt. The year around temps, even for tropical glaciers are still well below freezing. Precipitation patterns and not temperatures are key. And most precip patterns in the tropics are controlled by large scale oscillations like the Walker Cell and ENSO.

Johann Wundersamer
December 26, 2018 5:20 am

“Supply is down. But demand is up because of growing populations, “said Lonnie Thompson, a climate scientist at Ohio State’s Byrd Polar and Climate Research Center. By 2100, the best case scenario is that half of the ice will disappear. Worst-case scenario: two-thirds of it wants. And you’ve got all those people depending on the glacier for water. ”

he will probably retire soon. then the heart has peace and he can look at beautiful old black and white documentaries where the glaciers still shine on the mountain slopes and the people down in the valley operate field work with hoe and sickle till dusk comes down.

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