Michael Mann: Will the USA Join the Green Energy Revolution or Fall Behind?

This is Michael Mann, Distinguished University Professor of Atmospheric Sciences and Geosciences, Penn State.
CREDIT Patrick Mansell, Penn State

Guest essay by Eric Worrall

The part I don’t get – why is it important to greens not to “fall behind”?

Climate Change Impacts ‘No Longer Subtle,’ Scientist Says

Here & Now’s Jeremy Hobson talks with Michael Mann (@MichaelEMann), distinguished professor of atmospheric science and director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State University.

“What we’re seeing right now across the Northern Hemisphere is extreme weather in the form of unprecedented heat waves, droughts, floods, wildfires. In isolation, it might seem like any one of these things could be dismissed as an anomaly, but it’s the interconnectedness of all these events and their extreme nature that tells us that we are now seeing the face of climate change. The impacts of climate change are no longer subtle.

“That’s a huge lost opportunity when the media does not connect those dots for the people, because this is the face of climate change, and we have to understand it’s not just about polar bears up in the Arctic. It’s about extreme damaging weather events that we’re experiencing now in real time.”

“So the world is moving on, and the question now is, simply, is the United States going to join the rest of the world in what is the great economic revolution of this century, the green energy revolution, or are we going to fall behind the rest of the world? That’s the decision that we have to make, and if we don’t like the path that we’re on right now with the Trump administration and Republican leadership in Congress, we’ve got a midterm election in less than 100 days, where we can speak out and say, ‘We want a different path. We want to join the rest of the world, rather than be the last holdout towards progress.’ ”

Read more: http://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/08/02/summer-weather-climate-change

Why is it so important to greens for the USA not to “fall behind” the alleged renewable energy revolution?

Back in 2014, an engineering team working for Google discovered to their horror that there is no economically viable path to 100% renewable energy. No matter what they tried, the cost of building all the green energy infrastructure which would be required to get anywhere close to 100% renewable energy was an insurmountable barrier.

Spending money on green energy R&D – I don’t have a problem with that. But spending money on green energy infrastructure is a high risk investment in an unready technology which currently has no chance of delivering. Even Google’s engineers couldn’t crack the problem.

My question – instead of risking national economic ruin by trying to jump to the front of the pack, why not continue with the status quo? Encourage US entrepreneurs servicing the technology needs of green states and other countries to solve the problems, without risking the national economy.

That way countries or states which are enthusiastic about solar and wind take the risks, while states which are less enthusiastic about green energy provide an economic safety net in case the green energy revolution doesn’t work out.

0 0 votes
Article Rating
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
August 2, 2018 1:39 pm

It’s better to fall behind than fall over the cliff.

Reply to  PaulH
August 2, 2018 2:06 pm

Climate alarmist seem to fail to understand the concept of forward and backwards. I think they have lost their sense of direction, and I suspect they never had one which accounts for their willingness to grab at anything that drifts by.
Perhaps I missed the announcement where we had determined returning to dreadful past lifestyles (nasty, brutish and short) was progress.

James A. Schrumpf
Reply to  rocketscientist
August 2, 2018 2:53 pm

They’ve also missed the direction of causality: “climate change” can’t CAUSE anything; rather, a persistent, 30-year pattern of changed weather is the DEFINITION of climate change.

One mayas well say “wet sidewalks cause rain.”

Bryan A
Reply to  PaulH
August 2, 2018 3:03 pm

Try to explain that to Michael (The Lemming) Mann

Sage advice from my Grandpa
“If all your friends were jumping off a cliff, would you do it?”

Johann Wundersamer
Reply to  Bryan A
August 4, 2018 6:19 am

If all your friends stop at the traffic lights

would you do it

Reply to  Johann Wundersamer
August 4, 2018 10:50 am

When the lights are green, no.

Would you?

John Endicott
Reply to  Jtom
August 8, 2018 7:46 am

That reminds me of an old joke a friend of mine once told me:

A couple of guys where taking a drive through town at night. They came to a red light and the driver flew through it. The passenger was quite upset: “What the heck are you doing you just ran through a red light”. The driver said, relax, it’s no big deal, my brother does it all the time”.

They come up to the next red light and same thing happens. Passenger again says: “you did it again, that was a red light”. The driver responded “relax, my brother does it all the time”.

Next they come to a green light and the driver slams on the breaks bringing the car to a screeching halt. The passenger says “why’d you do that, the light is green?” to which the driver replied “My brother might be coming the other way.”

Reply to  PaulH
August 2, 2018 3:13 pm

There’s a small but subtle difference between leading edge, and bleeding edge.

Reply to  MarkW
August 3, 2018 5:47 am

and between leading edge and bleeding stupid.

Reply to  Greg
August 4, 2018 6:23 am

Greg, calling something stupid is childish & immature. Indicates you lost the argument.

John Endicott
Reply to  beng135
August 8, 2018 7:41 am

beng135, sometimes one must call a spade a spade. If something is stupid, pretending otherwise won’t change the facts.

And BTW, calling someone childish & immature, that indicates you lost the argument – by your own standards.

Reply to  PaulH
August 3, 2018 9:33 am

Perhaps this is a reasonable case for 0bama’s policy of “leading from behind”, so that we can see what tomfoolery masquerading as STEM does to cause havoc to other nations and avoid it ourselves.

Kat Phiche
August 2, 2018 1:44 pm

US will join the green energy revolution when
1. it’s cost effective,
2. won’t raise energy prices to the consumer and
3. isn’t subsidized by the Federal Government (which we pay for)
I for one don’t want to pay $0.30 to $0.40/KwHr like the EU.

DC Cowboy
Reply to  Kat Phiche
August 2, 2018 1:55 pm

I agree with one ‘correction’.

3) ‘our tax money’ should be changed to ‘our grand and great grandchildren’s tax money’, we spent our tax money and our children’s tax money long before they were born.

Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 3:15 pm

Politicians have been spending the children’s and grand children’s tax money since FDRs day.
According to Galbraith, it doesn’t matter what happens down the road since after all, “in the long run, we’re all dead”.

John Garrett
Reply to  MarkW
August 2, 2018 5:25 pm

Please excuse my pendantry, but it was John Maynard Keynes who wrote, “In the long run, we’re all dead.”

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  John Garrett
August 2, 2018 6:47 pm

But they were both practitioners of horrible economics.

Péter Tari
Reply to  John Garrett
August 2, 2018 10:45 pm

Please excuse my pedantry, but the right spelling of pedantry is pedantry not pendantry.

Reply to  Péter Tari
August 3, 2018 10:31 am

I think you win!

Reply to  John Garrett
August 3, 2018 8:58 pm

“In the long run, we’re all dead.”

But, your progeny.

J Cuttance
Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 3:37 pm

Exactly. It’s one of the most disgusting things the state does. No private entity would ever do this.

Reply to  J Cuttance
August 2, 2018 5:02 pm

No private enterprise could do this.
Nor would government allow them to.

Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 6:06 pm

Yes, D.C., but it is for our children and grandchildren’s own good. NOT!

DC Cowboy
Reply to  Kat Phiche
August 2, 2018 2:11 pm

We could make it ‘cost effective’ with an ‘Apollo’ or ‘Manhattan’ effort to reduce the cost of nuclear power plants. Cheap, safe, reliable nuke power would make fossil fuels obsolete very quickly, at least for power generation.

Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 5:05 pm

Thorium is the ticket

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  Sparky
August 2, 2018 6:48 pm

MSR is the ticket. Thorium is an unnecessary complication for centuries if not millennia.

Reply to  Sparky
August 3, 2018 8:57 pm

Sparky … SPARKY – take a look at the (inaptly named, though it is) Suncell ..

John Harmsworth
Reply to  Kat Phiche
August 2, 2018 2:12 pm

It is intended to stop warming that isn’t happening! I’m not signing on regardless.

DC Cowboy
Reply to  John Harmsworth
August 2, 2018 2:39 pm

A ‘side benefit’ would be a reduction in the ‘real’ pollutants’ (benzene, mercury, etc) that burning fossil fuels generates, yes? I think there is a lot to be had to converting to non-fossil fuel power generation, as long as we correctly balance ‘risk/reward’.

Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 3:16 pm

Those were for most part eliminated decades ago.

Reply to  MarkW
August 2, 2018 9:52 pm

My understanding is that benzene still has very real health effects on populations.


Reply to  Meh
August 3, 2018 6:47 am

What exposure does exist, doesn’t come from power plants.

DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 1:53 pm

I’d present Dr Mann with my dissenting views, only he blocked me long ago. I don’t even know why he did so.

michael hart
Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 2:22 pm

Some people on social media make use of apps that pre-block large numbers of people for simply liking or viewing the “wrong” person elsewhere.

DC Cowboy
Reply to  michael hart
August 2, 2018 2:46 pm

Could be the reason. I do recall asking him a question on his TL (respectfully, something like “Sir, I don’t understand, can you enlighten me as to why..)) that may have prompted him to block me because I am not ‘of the body’. It’s why I deleted my ‘facebook’ account after they assigned me a ‘political persuasion’ I had no control over, didn’t agree with, and couldn’t ‘opt out’ of. I also switched from Google search to ‘DuckDuckGo’ (not perfect, but better. If Twitter goes forward with their current plans to ‘reduce ‘hate speech’, etc, I will regretfully abandon that as well. The age of dominance by ‘Big Corp’ is upon us. I don’t know that government is capable of (or even wants to) stopping them anymore.

Bryan A
Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 3:08 pm

Ayn Rand wrote a little novella about the aftermath of just such government alliteration

Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 3, 2018 12:36 am

Gab is a Twitter alternative that takes free speech seriously.

Joel O'Bryan
August 2, 2018 1:58 pm

Oddly, the Green renewable snake-oil sellers seem to avoid talking about reliability in energy delivery when discussing renewable sources for electricity. /s

Reliability is the fatal flaw in the Green’s push for renewable power. Because lacking reliability, means either 1) people, businesses, and industry will either endure black-outs, and/or 2) endure much higher electricity costs as the grid operators duplicate power delivery with fossil fuel generators to mitigate #1. And duplicating means most of the claimed CO2 emissions savings is lost when entire systems level view is taken. The Google engineers took into account the total life-cycle CO2 fossil fuels used costs of renewable sources: the mining more copper and lithium for generators and batteries, the wind turbine production, the transport, installation. They can’t change that. They can only avoid discussing it.

We can’t let them get away with that.

Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
August 2, 2018 2:11 pm

Somewhere along the way they seem to have lost contact with the fact that the laws of physics prohibit us having perpetual motion devices, perpetual motion processes or perpetual motion systems.

DC Cowboy
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
August 2, 2018 2:14 pm

The reason is they don’t give a fig about sufficient, reliable power. They ‘give a fig’ about what control over our energy brings them – total control over our lives.

John Harmsworth
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
August 2, 2018 2:15 pm

Reliability is a secondary issue to me. The requirement for storage effectively doubles the cost of ALL Green power. Buying a truck to drag your dead horse around in.

Smart Rock
Reply to  Joel O'Bryan
August 2, 2018 8:25 pm

Elon Musk will build a battery capable of powering the entire North American grid for a month, to protect us against fickle winds and sunshine. The battery will be the size of Rhode Island and it will contain all the rare earths, lithium and cobalt that the world can produce for the next 150 years.

DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 2:00 pm

“a huge lost opportunity when the media does not connect those dots for the people”

*because ‘the people’ are all too damn stupid to connect them themselves*

I think the ‘media’ has been trying (and failing) to ‘connect the dots’ for quite some time, but, ‘the people’ seem to have an innate ‘BS’ meter about stuff like this.

Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 2:14 pm

Is Mann really a “scientist”.

Number 7
Reply to  ThomasJK
August 2, 2018 3:05 pm

Produce your propostion.
Give other scientists your data in order to produce the same results and prove your proposition.
In answer to your question Mann, by refusing to release his data, is not a scientist.

Bryan A
Reply to  ThomasJK
August 2, 2018 3:11 pm

Careful what you say about the Mann, he is liable to open up a can of wuss-ass on you

Gary Ashe
Reply to  Bryan A
August 2, 2018 4:06 pm

He is a fraudster.

Bring it on Mikey.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  Gary Ashe
August 2, 2018 7:43 pm

One of the main fraudsters of the the biggest fraud of all time.

John Endicott
Reply to  Gary Ashe
August 8, 2018 7:52 am

Fraudster or not, as Mark Steyn notes the process is the punishment when it comes to dealing with Mann’s frivolous liable suits.

paul courtney
Reply to  ThomasJK
August 2, 2018 6:23 pm

Thomas: You didn’t use a “?”, but if it were a question, my answer is this- he is at most a very flawed scientist. Even if he is the Einstein of Atmospherics, does that translate to expertise in energy production? Don’t get me wrong, alarmists like to say “if your not a peer-reviewed climate scientist, your facts don’t count.” Mann can have an opinion, but how does he account for Google’s failure? I didn’t read the full article, but I’m sure Jeremy Hobson really grilled him on it. A journalist, right? Bet he challenged him, “are you an authority on electric grids and the like, Dr. Mann?” Right?

Reply to  ThomasJK
August 3, 2018 1:58 pm

Mike Mann is an Activist

August 2, 2018 2:02 pm

If – repeat IF – we finally see cost-effective renewable energy generation and storage on an industrial scale, it will be most rapidly adopted by those economies that are prosperous…… not those which have impoverished themselves chasing green dreams.

michael hart
August 2, 2018 2:07 pm

It’s pretty standard politics to assert that other nations are doing something better and we have to act now to catch up, or risk suffering dire consequences. It’s normal to hear it from politicians, so when you hear it from an alleged scientist you know that this person probably has an agenda and is mixing politics with their day job, probably to the detriment of their science.

I’ll also bet he didn’t mention the shockingly high, and rising, electricity prices enjoyed by the unlucky citizens of these other ‘green’ nations.

James A. Schrumpf
Reply to  michael hart
August 2, 2018 2:59 pm

“Mr. President, we cannot afford a mine shaft gap!!!”
— Gen. Turgisson, “Dr. Strangelove (or How I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Bomb”)

John Harmsworth
Reply to  michael hart
August 2, 2018 3:08 pm

Canada just scaled back it’s carbon taxes ( which haven’t even come into effect yet) due to international competitive issues ( read re-election issues for Trudeau). Very possibly a preliminary step to dropping them altogether.
Multiple provinces are taking the Feds to court to stop the taxes and the political opposition to Trudeau’s fatuous, posturing nonsense is growing.
People might vote stupidly but they’re also kinda fickle.

DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 2:09 pm

Not sure what Dr Mann is referring to as ‘behind’. Since every nation that has adopted the idea of the ‘Green Revolution’ has actually increased it’s CO2 from power generation (for various reasons) while the US has decreased it’s CO2 from power generation, perhaps Dr Mann wants the US to not ‘fall behind; and increase our CO2?

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  DC Cowboy
August 2, 2018 4:56 pm

With most things being manufactured in China, it is difficult to know the actual contribution to CO2 any country makes in their well-intentioned shift to renewable power. I have long felt that the accounting for things like solar panels miss a lot of energy inputs for the complete life cycle.

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 13, 2018 5:16 am

The analysis of the life cycle for PV has been carried out many times.
This one here is a meta-analysis, summarizing the results, full of data:


August 2, 2018 2:10 pm

If it were such an exciting field of opportunity there is nothing stopping Michael Mann or anyone else risking their own capital on non-government-sponsored so-called green energy developments.
Genuinely exciting technological developments don’t need government mandates, in fact quite the opposite, fortunes are made ‘getting in on the ground floor’.

John Harmsworth
August 2, 2018 2:11 pm

The world’s #1 snake oil salesman! The only left out was unprecedented sameness! This guy should go work on a ranch. I’ve never seen a human being shovel so much s#!t!
One of the very few people in the world who I find disgusting.

August 2, 2018 2:26 pm

As soon as that fraud Michael Mann mentioned the polar bears he lost all credibility.
He wouldn’t make a scientist’s arse hole.

Reply to  mikebartnz
August 3, 2018 4:45 pm

Really smart people at the top of their field must be annoying.

August 2, 2018 2:35 pm

If I get to vote, it will be to “fall behind”.

Bryan A
Reply to  DonM
August 2, 2018 3:13 pm

If I get to vote it will be to Push them farther ahead and away

Clyde Spencer
Reply to  Bryan A
August 2, 2018 4:58 pm

Bryan A,
Put then all on the ‘B Ark.’

Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 2, 2018 11:15 pm

+ 42 !

Bryan A
Reply to  Clyde Spencer
August 3, 2018 9:50 am

Gets my vote

August 2, 2018 2:37 pm

Politicians need to be seen doing something, anything, or why else elect them ?

Peta of Newark
August 2, 2018 2:46 pm

If we need any more proof that there is not going to be enough electricity:
Smart meters will allow energy firms to introduce “surge pricing”, one of Britain’s biggest gas and electric providers has admitted for the first time.

Were these the dots you’re connecting Mr Mann?
From here:

Meanwhile Brexit rumbles on towards a total trainwreck:
A drugs giant is amassing a 14-WEEK medicine stockpile as fears grow of a “nightmare” no deal Brexit. Pharmaceutical giant Sanofi is a major supplier of insulin.
From The Mirror somewhere.
Insulin eh?
Any pre-diabetics out there had better start eating and stocking up on the coconut oil

Wonder how the continental inter-connectors will fare in this mess – even less elektrickery for your average punter?

I’m sure the creators of Smart Meters have that one worked out, probably involving truckloads of £20 notes and Drax power station

Reply to  Peta of Newark
August 2, 2018 3:37 pm

Those smart meters rely on getting a signal to the outside world. Quite a lot of them can’t get a signal from the cupboard under the stairs. Just saying.

J Mac
August 2, 2018 2:47 pm

The United States of America is leading the world out of the mann-made dark ages of climate change fraud and into a new age of low cost, abundant, 24/7/365 reliable energy.

To the rest of the world: “Follow the Leader!”

Linda Goodman
August 2, 2018 2:55 pm

Mikey looks worried that he can’t hide his decline. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMqc7PCJ-nc

Bryan A
Reply to  Linda Goodman
August 2, 2018 3:16 pm

His decline? I thought it was his Declination or was it his Reclination

Bruce Cobb
August 2, 2018 2:59 pm

“Green energy revolution”?

Reply to  Bruce Cobb
August 3, 2018 1:07 am

Any more of this spin around energy and I’ll be green in the face.

John Harmsworth
August 2, 2018 3:02 pm

We should offer to send Mann to Zimbabwe or some other such beacon of enlightenment where he can don his golden mantle of Eco Saviour and be fed peeled grapes while he looks down his nose at us common, ignoramuses. (Ignorami?)

Henning Nielsen
August 2, 2018 3:02 pm

“The impacts of climate change are no longer subtle.”

My, my, so until now they were, in Mann’s view, subtle? In stark contrast to the maistream alarmist propaganda, that would be.

It is Mann who is falling behind, he should read more on this site and get updated about the fate of renewable energy projects and policies worldwide. But that would be an intrusion of reality upon illusion, and possibly dangerous.

Bryan A
Reply to  Henning Nielsen
August 2, 2018 3:17 pm

Perhaps just His falling behind

August 2, 2018 3:11 pm

They never minded the US falling behind in the arms race.

Bill Murphy
August 2, 2018 3:11 pm

Meanwhile, back in the real world of productive America…
comment image

Of course Mikie never was much into reality.

Reply to  Bill Murphy
August 2, 2018 5:32 pm

Great sign!

Bill Murphy
Reply to  Eric Worrall
August 2, 2018 11:02 pm

Yes, I took it (actually my wife did for me) and hereby release it to the public domain. Have at it. Location is at the intersection of hwy 46 and 50 about 6 miles East of Wagner, SD. This is looking East from the stop sign on hwy 50. If I had panned 90 deg left to the North there is a large wind farm a few miles North-North-West busily chopping up raptors and annoying the locals.

Mike Borcherding
August 2, 2018 3:22 pm

Why isn’t there a big discussion about nuclear energy. If climate change is such a disaster in the making why aren’t the alarmists talking about the only real option of less carbon and that is nuclear power. In their minds is it better to destroy the planet than use nuclear power? I don’t get it.

michael hart
Reply to  Mike Borcherding
August 2, 2018 6:01 pm

To his credit, James Hansen does call for lots more nuclear power, but he seems to be in a small minority among global-warmers and he got called the D-word by Oreskes for the sin.

His problem is that they were only too happy to recruit the most rabid of environmentalists and other assorted loud mouths as climate-change shock troops. There really are some allies who are just not worth the trouble. These same people have been brought up on a diet of undiluted Jane Fonda propaganda, and would rather see the end of human civilization than countenance building up a large fleet of nuclear reactors.

Jim Whelan
Reply to  Mike Borcherding
August 3, 2018 10:16 am

Nuclear energy has this thing called “radiation” which may be a bigger bug-a-boo to environmentalists than CO2.

Reply to  Mike Borcherding
August 3, 2018 8:53 pm

Why isn’t there a big discussion about … hydrinos?

August 2, 2018 3:23 pm

Why doesn’t the rest of the world go green and the US stay on fossil fuels? We could then charge the world for helping to fertilize their crops.

Mark Donovan
August 2, 2018 3:26 pm

How about using the stuff that works and discarding the stuff that doesn’t

Reply to  Mark Donovan
August 3, 2018 1:13 am

But all the stuff that don’t work would have their feelings hurt! 😮

John Garrett
August 2, 2018 3:43 pm

Unfortunately, I had my car radio on while driving to the site of my afternoon run today. I turned it on in the middle of this interview and didn’t know who the interviewee was though it was obvious it was the voice of a propagandizer and proselytizer of the CAGW religion.

I couldn’t help but wonder if it was Hansen or Gavin or another of the usual nutters.

Eventually the transgressor was identified as none other than the infamous Michael “Piltdown” Mann.

WBUR is, of course, located in Boston. One of WBUR’s largest funders is Jeremy Grantham. You may rest assured that the station’s attitude and programming in respect of CAGW is bought and paid for.

John Garrett
August 2, 2018 3:45 pm

By the way, if you want to send a comment to WBUR’s “Here and Now” the email address is:

August 2, 2018 3:47 pm

Mann is an AGW evangelist.

Andy Pattullo
August 2, 2018 4:09 pm

If the inventor of the hokey Shtick wants the media to “connect those dots”, why doesn’t he help them by providing the data that he must have somewhere showing all those events he lists are in actual fact anomalies or unprecedented or a deviation from normal weather. I could list all of the demented psychopathic eco wing-nuts in published climate journals and claim they were signs of the decay of the human race but it would mean nothing without statistics.
By the way what sort of PhD thesis made this Mann an expert on connecting the dots. Last time I did that I was in grade three.

Gordon Jeffrey Giles
August 2, 2018 4:19 pm

Looking at that photo….What an arrogant, smug, pompous ass.

O.K., now to answer the question, “Why are they afraid to fall behind?”
A. Because somehow, they think that their campfire histrionics and 1KiloWatt solar installs are going to save our nation from some global catastrophe. The truth, as most of us on this thread know, is that it is adherence to their maxims and mandates that will doom our futures and those of our children and grandchildren. They just will not admit how wrong they are and how pitifully lacking in capacity their foolish schemes are and how they will condemn the world to a darker and less prosperous future that they, being dead, will not have to suffer….either the effects or the blame.

August 2, 2018 4:49 pm

it’s those straggling eloi holding up lunch again. can’t have that.

August 2, 2018 5:02 pm

Leave the SunWorshipers and WindWonks behind. Why on continue on research into the cheapest and move advanced energy source — advanced Thorium reactors. Whilst they tilt at windmills and whine,.. new natural nuclear may give us the edge for a millennium more. Hanson might even become the PR man for the Energy Department in a hilarious twist of technical advanced. Back to the future – nuclear powered cars (probably fuel cells some day as storage in H2,..) {must be careful,.. China is doing some good basic research and may surprise all — just without the panels}

Reply to  Sparky
August 2, 2018 5:28 pm

Sparky says: “cheapest and move advanced energy source — advanced Thorium reactors.” However there is not a single Thorium reactor in commercial operation, so we have no idea if it is the “cheapest”

Reply to  David Dirkse
August 2, 2018 9:56 pm

I was suggesting R&D for advanced 3rd Ten Nuclear. Reduced and competitive Cost is a result of research and development and the implementation of commercial architectures viable to be competitive. Nuclear’s proven cost competitiveness has been shown for years (unless you conflate excessive regulatory burdens and false assessments of ‘storage’ of waste.). Thorium is in early stages of development but with much promise of reduced costs, risk mitigation and eventual broad commercial success.

Reply to  Sparky
August 3, 2018 8:50 pm

I was suggesting R&D for …

GOVERNMENT money? Why? Let Apple take a stab at it for a change …

Reply to  Sparky
August 3, 2018 8:51 pm

The Suncell will leave the Thorium boys as just another footnote in the history books …

August 2, 2018 5:33 pm

He says it like it’s a bad thing.

August 2, 2018 5:45 pm

I don’t have any problem with green energy, but unfortunately, it is not up to the task. The reason is fundamental. It’s not a lack of research, it is the low energy density and non dispatchability of green energy that is the root problem.

August 2, 2018 5:53 pm

We are in danger of falling behind the leading edge of power production and thus being unable to compete in the global market place, but it’s not in the way the left and the main stream media think. The future is high efficiency coal, not green energy:

Reply to  KT66
August 3, 2018 8:48 pm

The future is high efficiency coal,

Can we revisit this prediction, in, oh, say just three years? I think one Dr. Randell L. Mills will have operating field units of his inaptly named “SunCell” working at that time …

August 2, 2018 6:10 pm

I suggest that we use the favored Obama position and lead from behind.

Michael Jankowski
August 2, 2018 6:14 pm

If he’s soooooooo interested in reducing CO2, why does he focus so much on “green” energy instead of nuclear? His politics, of course.

August 2, 2018 6:16 pm

“What we’re seeing right now across the Northern Hemisphere is extreme weather in the form of unprecedented heat waves, droughts, floods, wildfires.”

Well, even Whackopedia contradicts the “unprecedented heat waves” claim:

also, floods:

As for droughts:

and, concerning wildfires, again, even Whackopedia contradicts the “unprecedented” claim by Dr. Doom (I mean, “Mann”):

“In isolation, it might seem like any one of these things could be dismissed as an anomaly, but it’s the interconnectedness of all these events and their extreme nature that tells us that we are now seeing the face of climate change. The impacts of climate change are no longer subtle.”

Even COLLECTIVELY, all these things CAN be dismissed as an anomaly. None of them, either standing alone or in view of all the others, is an anomaly. Their extreme nature today is no more extreme than their extreme nature yesterday or yesteryear or yestercentury.

What IS extreme is the NUMBER of people now observing these weather events, the NUMBER of news media reporting all this, the NUMBER of people now witnessing, talking about, hyping, misassociating, conflating, and confusing all this to create a popular lie.

Furthermore, attributing all this to “climate change”, in and of itself, would not be unusual, even if the “unprecedented” claim WERE true (which it is NOT). But what Dr. Doom (I mean, “Mann”) subtly tries to sneak into favor is the hidden premise that “climate change” means ONLY changes to climate caused by humans, and he trusts that this insidious hijacking of the general word meaning has successfully overtaken the minds of the masses, but this writer here (Robert K) is NOT one of those masses who has fallen for this verbal hijacking.

So, Dr. Doom (I mean, “Mann”), I call total bullshit on your ego-inflated, uneducated claims that support your completely ignorant faith in “Green energy” replacing the current fossil-fuel-energized civilization.

John in Oz
Reply to  Robert Kernodle
August 3, 2018 3:40 am

extreme weather in the form of unprecedented heat waves, droughts, floods, wildfires.

Can Dr Doom (oops! Mann) guarantee that there will be no more extreme weather events when fossil fuels are no longer used and we are all using electricity in intermittent stages?

When he puts his nuts on the block to demonstrate his commitment to his beliefs, then I might believe he is serious. The first heat wave, drought or flood after his green energy revolution is in place causes forfeit of his family jewels.

Reply to  John in Oz
August 3, 2018 8:26 am

There will be no shortage of applicants willing to swing the hammer.

Edward A. Katz
August 2, 2018 6:17 pm

What Green Energy Revolution is Mann talking about when the world’s leading polluters like China, India, and Russia are continuing to build coal plants and/or aren’t showing any great enthusiasm for cutting emissions until they find it convenient. And when all forecasts show fossil fuel use continuing to rise until 2040 at least, who’s really making such a great shift toward renewable energy besides countries with small populations and areas? Mann had better take a closer look at the facts.

August 2, 2018 6:20 pm

So right off the bat he is speaking with forked tongue.
He is wrong on heatwaves, floods, fires, storms and droughts.
None of those weather related events are unprecedented in size, degree, or scope.
When will ethical scientists prove they are reputable and stand up to his less than accurate claims?

August 2, 2018 6:23 pm

Many continue to believe that this all has something to do with climate. It does not, it is about power, control and destroying capitalism and freedom but especially the USA.

People like Mann love the accolades and fame they have gendered. It gives their sad little lives meaning, more than they ever dreamed. Sadly there are those seeking power that use just such people to get what they want. Mann and his ilk would be the first in re-education camps. Just ask yourself why have the socialists, social justice crowd, Antifa, radical feminists, animal rights folks, Islamists, etc, etc allied themselves with the CAGW orthodoxy, priests and priestesses?

August 2, 2018 6:24 pm

Who in their right mind would want to pay forty and fifty something cents a KWH for unreliable electricity that most people couldn’t even afford. Like they do in Europe and Australia and in Ontario, where Doug Ford has started to throw it all out.

Tsk Tsk
August 2, 2018 6:46 pm

Ooo! Ooo! Pick me! Pick me!

John Minich
August 2, 2018 6:54 pm

Is “the great economic revolution” going to be upward or downward? As for extreme weather and unprecedented heat waves, how many thousands of years back do his usable information and well written observations go? The way I look at it, going back for only about 233 years is talking about weather and not climate. As for wild fires, how much “credit” is he giving to human caused excessive density of trees and lower story vegetation and accumulation of debris from stopping natural fire activity and other forms of mismanagement?

August 2, 2018 7:10 pm

That’s what lemming always say.

August 2, 2018 7:29 pm

Mann 2018:
“…join the rest of the world in what is the great economic revolution of this century, the green energy revolution, or are we going to fall behind the rest of the world…”.

Lenin 1918 (paraphrased):
“…join the comrads of the World in what is the Great Economic Revolution of this century, the Red Communist Economic Revolution, or are we going to fall behind the rest of the World…”.

Christopher Chantrill
August 2, 2018 7:43 pm

My question. If Michael Mann is a scientist, why doesn’t he just stick to doing science?

August 2, 2018 7:50 pm
Lawrence Ayres
August 2, 2018 8:15 pm

When is his court case with Mark Steyn going to start? I am waiting to see this goose squirm as he is publicly humiliated in like fashion to the way he has denigrated others.

Donald Kasper
August 2, 2018 9:07 pm

China has a 2025 plan to dominate world trade while at the same time doubling coal electrical production. So Mann is saying he is smarter than all the planners and engineers of China put together as they are going to get behind.

August 2, 2018 9:33 pm

Mann wrote

a huge lost opportunity when the media does not connect those dots for the people

Because science cant do it. If science could connect the dots, then media could report that with confidence.

Damon C. Poole, II
August 2, 2018 10:04 pm

Because if they “fall behind” they don’t make a dime. Remember, it’s money that’s at the heart of it all. The redistribution of wealth. Everything that is hyped, made to look like a climate or ecological crisis, and breed climate hysteria is all about taking money out of all of your pocket and putting it into theirs. They’re greedy and they want their cut of all of our money.

Damon C. Poole, II
August 2, 2018 10:21 pm

The part I don’t get – why is it important to greens not to “fall behind”? – The reason they don’t want to fall behind is because it hits them in the wallet. They want to redistribute wealth from your wallet to theirs. That’s why they have this fake crisis mentality. They want their cut of our money to line their pockets and pay for their agenda. Fortunately, we have the ability to stop them in their tracks. Trump has kept his promises and pulled us out out Climate Change agreements and executive ordered the reversal of much of Obama’s environmentalist agenda.

Mark Beeunas
August 2, 2018 10:26 pm

Or: Will the USA Join the Green Energy Revolution ‘and’ Fall Behind?

August 2, 2018 10:43 pm

They are getting desperate. They have lost every argument, and now only have ‘be part of the first world’ left.

August 3, 2018 12:58 am

Well now, As a Professional Engineering practitioner, there is a BIG disconnect between the Practitioners on the ground in everyday life and the “professors” in their ivory towers shouting along the corridors, across the vennels to their fellow elitists ( politico, etc). ……. could go on , but I have a job to do and a wage to earn…
I mean, …. that we have to Listen to the continuous drabble from them and the Media with their cohorts – any story this past while, seems to include a reason for failure is attributed to climate change. …

August 3, 2018 3:24 am

What green energy revolution is there to join?

Reply to  MrZ
August 3, 2018 6:19 am

Yeah, Green Energy Revolution as a movement is so passe. Come on Mann get caught up with the times! The term green energy is so Obama era. Its time and their fantasies and failed policies has come and gone.

August 3, 2018 3:57 am

If only mankind could harness the power of Michael Manns smugness

Steve O
August 3, 2018 4:41 am

What is the carbon footprint of building all this “green” infrastructure? What is the carbon footprint of a wind farm compared to the annual carbon emission savings, and what is the “payback period?” Given that we have only five years to blah blah blah, I hope it’s not more than five years.

(Besides, how much wind do those things actually create? They look like they use up a lot of electricity. )

Reply to  Steve O
August 5, 2018 6:03 am
Gary Pearse
August 3, 2018 5:03 am

The “all in” renoobles countries are trying to back out while they still have an economy. Trump saved the world but I hope he has a Kevlar suit on. There are sane sober believers in the AGW alarm stuff but it is an attractive type of issue for psychologically impaired types, angry haters and the like. I dont thing the come-down is going to be pretty.

August 3, 2018 5:21 am

why is it important to greens not to “fall behind”?

Because they’re so far behind they think they’re ahead.

August 3, 2018 5:45 am

I find it interesting this perspective that a nation or people would be “falling behind” when failing to adopt the green approach to energy, when observations are that adopting green policies actually are set-backs in advancing a culture and society.

August 3, 2018 5:57 am

Green energy = the most expensive energy on the planet!

Reply to  AARGH63
August 3, 2018 9:26 am

And the most environmentally damaging and least reliable.

August 3, 2018 6:07 am

They have to press right now. They have to try to imply that we need to catch up and that we need to act fast…while they have the chance.

We’re currently undergoing a string of inclement weather (I seriously doubt the “unprecedented” part) that they have to exploit while it’s still in the forefront of people’s minds.

They sure can’t do it when this dies down and we have a run of “run of the mill” weather.

Actually, that’s pretty much the summer we’ve had in my area…pretty much exactly what we expect from summer in this area.

I wonder how many other areas are like that too, but by the time the media gets done reporting on it, anyone that’s NOT from there gets the impression that it’s been an extreme, “unprecedented” summer.

California’s got a bad wildfire going on. Um…doesn’t that happen pretty much every year?

“New heat records in death valley and Morrocco!!!!1!!11!!!!1111” The desert is hot. Duh.

We’ve had a heat wave. We’ve had heat waves for as long as I’ve been alive. We’ve also had blizzards, deep freezes and really mild weather too at various times. None of that, in my limited experience, is the harbinger of the end of the world…it’s called “weather”.

Anyway…Mann and company have to try to exploit the weather to push their agenda while they can because they know as well as we do that it won’t last forever and it’s a lot harder to push their agenda when it’s nice outside.

Steve Keohane
August 3, 2018 6:58 am
August 3, 2018 7:12 am

Oh, Mann means the green energy revolution like in the Netherlands where they put out hundreds of electric generator windmills only to take them down because they were costing more to operate than the power they were supplying. Until there is a battery technology breakthrough, renewable energy will never be feasible for more than a fraction of the world’s energy needs.

Reply to  Ghandi
August 3, 2018 9:25 am

Even with batteries, they fail. It has to do with energy density and consistent performance (the battery bank required to cover a week of no wind would probably dwarf a city). I guess we could change the laws of physics. They vote on that, right?

Reply to  Ghandi
August 3, 2018 8:42 pm

Until there is a battery technology breakthrough

This will be quite literally swamped by the (inaptly named, I think, because it has nothing to do with the sun as in solar) “SunCell”.

Reply to  Ghandi
August 4, 2018 6:29 am

Until there is a battery technology breakthrough

Battery tech is mature — has been. Incremental improvements like lithium batteries can occur, but that doesn’t change the fact of very-low energy density.

David L. Hagen
August 3, 2018 8:18 am

Germany launched the major PV transition by its guaranteed solar power buy back program.
China then committed $47 billion to capture the global PV market.

Reply to  David L. Hagen
August 3, 2018 9:49 am

To some of us in the UK this is reminiscent of the history of liquid crystal displays . The materials were first explored in Germany and in the UK ( by Gray at Univ of Hull) and the research on application to displays was promoted by the UK Govt through , eg the Royal Radar Establishment in Malvern and the work of Prof Cyril Hilsum .
However it is Japan , S Korea and Taiwan and the companies there that reaped the major commercial benefit through their massive industrial investment from the 1980s.

Coach Springer
August 3, 2018 8:34 am

Woou8ldn’t it be better if this “disgrace to his profession” actually limited his disgrace to his profession?

Reply to  Coach Springer
August 4, 2018 6:49 am

Leaders in science fields are a “disgrace to (their) profession.”

We get it. You don’t like scientists who are published and peer reviewed, especially when their work is confirmed by many studies in the next few decades.

John Endicott
Reply to  Alley
August 8, 2018 7:56 am

Ally, I suggest you read “”A Disgrace To The Profession” The World’s Scientists, In Their Own Words, On Michael E Mann, His Hockey Stick And Their Damage To Science Volume I”. You might learn just what his peer think about this “leader” you so blindly defend.

August 3, 2018 10:27 am

His bank account must be getting low.

Reply to  JinOH
August 5, 2018 6:07 am

No, he’s doing fine. Director of the Earth System Science Center at Pennsylvania State University and several books (well written too, not sure if he had a ghost writer.)

I think the sites that peddle non-science are hurting.

August 3, 2018 10:47 am

There’s an old saw that seems to apply, if I could just remember it correctly… Something like, “At first I was proud of the General, as a great leader, for running out in front of his troops, until I realized they were in full retreat.”

Does anyone else remember such a quote? Who said it? Unless I’m the one that made it up, in which case I take full credit.

What I’m trying to say is, there’s all kinds of leadership, not all of it desirable.

Ill Tempered Klavier
Reply to  Red94ViperRT10
August 3, 2018 12:07 pm

I’ve seen leadership defined as “Figure out which direction people are moving, then run that way.”

Walter Sobchak, Esq.
August 3, 2018 12:46 pm

“Spending money on green energy R&D – I don’t have a problem with that.”

I do. There is no upside in it. Windmills are thousand year old technology. Batteries 220 years. Solar thermal ancient. Solar cells are only at 110.But the point is made. Pouring money into “renewable” R&D is just welfare for white people. A waste of money and time.

August 3, 2018 3:47 pm

1. Virtue-signaling “Ahh others are ahead op us in the virtue race! Unacceptable!”
2. Attempt to appeal to naive competitiveness “Americans love to be first. Tell them they are falling behind.”

Derek Colman
August 3, 2018 5:17 pm

I can not for the life of me figure out the motivation of Michael Mann. As a climate scientist he must be aware of and studied all the data, yet he makes these statements which he must know are false. He must know that amid all this hysteria over heatwaves, the northern hemisphere is only 0.2° C above the average, and that the northern Atlantic SST has dropped by over 0.5° C. He must also know that parts of the southern hemisphere are suffering abnormally low winter temperatures. Maybe it was getting away with the deception of the hockey stick chart that went to his head.

Reply to  Derek Colman
August 3, 2018 7:00 pm

I can not for the life of me figure out the motivation of Michael Mann.
Hubris overtakes rationality; the desire for fame and a ‘name’ outstrips all other motivating factors, including the exercise of discretion.

Reply to  Derek Colman
August 4, 2018 6:47 am

“the northern hemisphere is only 0.2° C above the average”

That makes no sense. Scientists would indicate what average they are talking about. You seem to have picked an arbitrary average.

And picking specific parts of the globe is interesting, but are duly noted in the global average.

August 3, 2018 5:43 pm

Idiots all. The “SunCell” courtesy of Dr. Mills is going to eat a lot of “lunches” in the energy field …

Reply to  _Jim
August 3, 2018 6:57 pm

I add this for ristvan’s edification: “From the time of its inception, quantum mechanics (QM) has been controversial because its foundations are in conflict with physical laws and are internally inconsistent. Interpretations of quantum mechanics such as hidden variables, multiple worlds, consistency rules, and spontaneous collapse have been put forward in an attempt to base the theory in reality. Unfortunately many theoreticians ignore the requirement that the wave function must be real and physical in order for it to be considered a valid description of reality.

These issues and other such flawed philosophies and interpretations of experiments that arise from quantum mechanics are discussed in the Retrospect section and Ref. [8, 10, 12]. Reanalysis of old experiments and many new experiments including electrons in superfluid helium and data confirming the existence of hydrinos challenge the Schrödinger equation predictions.

Many noted physicists rejected quantum mechanics, even those whose work undermined classical laws. Feynman attempted to use first principles including Maxwell’s Equations to discover new physics to replace quantum mechanics [34] and Einstein searched to the end. “Einstein […] insisted […] that a more detailed, wholly deterministic theory must underlie the vagaries of quantum mechanics [35].” He believed scientists were misinterpreting the data.

From: https://brilliantlightpower.com/wp-content/uploads/theory/GUT-CP-2016-Ed-Volume1-Web-121517.pdf

August 3, 2018 7:57 pm

Michael Mann apparently lacks the engineering/science skill to adequately understand what is wrong with depending on solar and wind for energy.

The fallacy of renewables is revealed with simple arithmetic.

5 mW wind turbine, avg output 1/3 nameplate, 20 yr life, electricity @ wholesale 3 cents per kwh produces $8.8E6.

Installed cost @ $1.7E6/mW = $8.5E6.

Add the cost of energy storage facility and energy loss during storage/retrieval, or standby CCGT for low wind periods. Add the cost of land lease, maintenance, administration.

Solar voltaic and solar thermal are even worse with special concern for disposal and/or recycling at end-of-life (about 15 yr for PV).

The dollar relation is a proxy for energy relation. Bottom line, the energy consumed to design, manufacture, install, maintain and administer renewables exceeds the energy they produce in their lifetime.

Without the energy provided by other sources renewables could not exist.

Reply to  Dan Pangburn
August 3, 2018 8:37 pm

Dan, in the engineering world “mW” indicates milliWatts via the lower case “m”. The term MW indicates the desired MegaWatt unit you desire …

Ref: https://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/prefixes.html

August 4, 2018 8:06 am

Newsflash, “revolutions” are created, funded and promoted by Governments in power. Revolutions are usually the result of Tyrannical Governments wasting peoples money to the point of destroying an economy so the people can do nothing but rebel. Think of Venezuela and Iran.

Also, Revolutions usually aren’t based upon lies.

Isolating the Impact of CO2 on Atmospheric Temperatures; Conclusion is CO2 has No Measurable Impact

Justin McCarthy
August 13, 2018 12:02 am

China has cut back on solar projects. And, California utilities have paid Arizona to take excess green energy. Leadership isn’t all its cracked up to be. LOL

Verified by MonsterInsights