Dr. Roger Pielke Jr. has penned a Pandora’s box of assertions and questions in an attempt to get some reality-based discussion going in the summer 2018 edition of ISSUES. I quipped to him in an email “If they didn’t hate you before, they will now.”.
He’s kindly shared the document with us at WUWT for your reading pleasure. I’ve made some excepts, and provided a link to the entire article.

Opening Up the Climate Policy Envelope
Fudged assumptions about the future are hampering efforts to deal with climate change in the present. It’s time to get real.
Roger Pielke Jr.
Policy action is required to mitigate and adapt to human-caused climate change, but current efforts to develop a global climate policy cannot fly. What the world’s leaders have been able to agree on will not prevent the steady increase in greenhouse gases in the atmosphere and the risks of climate disruption that will result.
For an aircraft to fly it must operate within a flight envelope, the combination of conditions such as air-speed, altitude, and flight angle necessary for successful operation. For a specific approach to climate action to succeed, it must operate within a policy envelope, the combination of policy design and political, economic, technological, and other conditions necessary for the approach to be effective.
If aircraft designers sought to improve the performance of a poorly designed aircraft not by improving its design, but by rejiggering their claims about aerodynamics, or airfoil design, or jet fuel combustion thermodynamics, to match the aircraft performance they desire, it is obvious that the aircraft would still perform badly. In the case of climate change, policy-makers and climate experts are doing something similar. In the face of ongoing failure to reduce global greenhouse gas emissions, they are rejiggering the way they define the climate change challenge as if that will somehow allow policies that have been failing for over 25 years to become successful.
Understanding the unexplored dimensions of a policy envelope can be particularly important in situations of policy failure or gridlock. Sometimes new options are needed in order to break a stalemate, enable political
compromise, or create new technological possibilities. The exploration of options can also give confidence that the policies being implemented do not have better alternatives. Thus, an important role for policy analysts, especially in the context of wicked or intractable problems, is to understand the ever-changing dimensions of the policy envelope in a particular context to assess what might be possible in order for progress to be made, perhaps even expanding the scope of available actions.
The failure of global climate policies to date suggests that new policy options should be explored— that we may need a significantly expanded policy envelope to begin to make satisfactory progress. But rather than exploring such options, we have instead been protecting the current policy envelope from critical scrutiny. One mechanism of such protection is via scenarios and assumptions that underlie the authoritative policy assessments of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC).
…
Climate denial of another kind
Some observers have pointed out the obvious. For instance, in 2012 Robert Socolow warned, “No one appears to be preparing for a time—possibly quite soon—when a consensus develops that a peaking of emissions in the 2020s will not occur and that therefore (at least in this meaning) ‘two degrees’ will not be attained.” Yet rather than open up discussion of climate policy to new possibilities, the main response to such observations has been climate denialism of another sort, manifested in the Paris Agreement’s call for a more stringent target (1.5°C), made seemingly feasible by the incorporation of assumptions about the future that are at best wildly optimistic.
We need to break free of such assumptions in order to recognize that the current policy envelope does not contain the pathways to meaningful progress, but rather is an obstacle to discovering such pathways.
If the IPCC is unable or unwilling to consider a more expansive climate policy envelope, then others in leadership positions might explicitly take on this challenge. It won’t be easy. Business-as-usual climate policy has a large and powerful political, economic, and social constituency. Repeated policy failures, most obviously the Kyoto Protocol, have been insufficient to motivate a change in thinking or direction. Although the Paris Agreement helpfully abandoned pretentions of a top-down fix, it did little to change thinking about how its targets were to be achieved.
And whereas it’s easy to blame the intransigence of the United States for lack of progress, such a tack is just another way to try to protect business-as-usual policy, for the fact is that the rest of the world isn’t making progress either.
The work on the IPCC’s Sixth Assessment Report looks to be similar in form and function to that of past reports, designed to support the UNFCCC but certainly not to open up new possibilities that might require different institutional arrangements.
An expansion of the boundaries of a climate policy envelope is different from a search for specific solutions to a narrowly defined problem. Rather, it represents a search for circumstances under which alternative, effective policy interventions might be possible. In the best cases such an exploration can result in practical options previously not considered, and in new coalitions of actors coming together in new political arrangements to seek progress.
What might an exploration of a more expansive climate policy envelope look like? Below are some questions that push toward an expanded set of options, but once we set our collective attention to the task, no doubt a dramatic expansion of ideas and possibilities would multiply quickly.
- What do climate policy options look like if BECCS is not assumed in scenarios and models?
- What happens if we abandon the 2°C temperature target? Oliver Geden observes: “Worldwide, there has been almost no questioning of the parties’ intention to hold the temperature increase to below 2 or 1.5°C.” What alternative long- or short-term targets might be used to track climate policy progress?
- One possibility might include a commitment to the expansion of carbon-free energy in national energy mixes, as achieving zero emissions will require that almost all energy consumption come from sources that are carbon neutral. The world currently is at less than 15% carbon-free energy consumption.
- What might a technology-focused climate policy architecture focused on targets and timetables for the adoption of carbon-free energy sources look like (rather than emissions or temperature targets)?
- Succeeding in the stabilization of carbon dioxide at low levels in the atmosphere will require a massive reduction in the use of fossil fuels. There has been essentially no serious international policy focus on how this might actually be done. Consider that the world consumes more than 11,000 million metric tons of oil equivalent (MTOE) of fossil fuels each year, according to the multinational energy corporation BP. If this number is to approach zero, then the world would need to retire and replace about 1 MTOE each day until 2050. That is the equivalent of more than a nuclear power plant’s worth of carbon-free energy, every day. How might the world decommission such a magnitude of fossil fuel energy? The UNFCCC policy envelope has been an exercise in avoiding this question. What would it mean to get serious about answering it?
- The massive scaling of technologies that do not yet exist or do not exist at scale would require a commitment to dramatically enhanced national and international innovation policies. What policy options would support innovation at the scale needed to transform the global energy system? Are there innovation investments or practices that would be amenable to targets and timetables? Above all, what magnitude of investments is likely to be necessary for a massive scale-up in carbon-free technologies?
- Climate policy discussions have tended to emphasize worst case scenarios of the future. What might climate policy look like if scenarios expected to represent more likely futures are placed at the center of climate policy discussions? How might costs and benefits look under such scenarios? What new policy options might become politically plausible with changes in predicted costs and benefits focused on central tendencies and not extremes?
- What might climate policy look like if costs and benefits of proposed policies are not calculated over decades and longer (e.g., under assumptions of future spontaneous decarbonization), but instead are examined from a perspective of one or several years, so as to be more consistent with political calendars?
These a just a very few possibilities for the sorts of questions that might be asked that would lead to an expanded climate policy envelope.
Full report here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GrcmbqnQ89GfaXY7gvO1O4-YzderjiXJ/view
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The first question I think he should have asked is “How do we know there is a problem at all?”
Environmentalists aen’t the first people to think that a problem is best fixed by passing a law making something illegal. Not the first, but they may be the worst. Some of them probably also think that you can cure cancer by banning it.
A carbon tax is similar to solving poverty by taxing the poor. If the tax is painful enough no one will want to be poor and instead will switch to being rich.
The same with the carbon tax. As the tax increases and becomes painful we will switch to carbon free gasoline. I hear Petrol Canada will be introducing Carbon Free fuels in the near future. Regular, Premium and Carbon Free. Just like fat free and gluten free foods. Look for Carbon Free fuels next time you fill up.
RSS Total Precipitable Water Vapour measuring project
http://www.remss.com/measurements/atmospheric-water-vapor/
if you read the web site carefully enough you will see that the satellites have a number of issues with coverage. Since they they seem to use many different systems and then combine the data, I suspect big error factors.
“We have merged the water vapor measurements from the many radiometers in operation since 1987, including SSM/I, SSMIS, AMSR-E, WindSat, and AMSR2. These data were all processed in a consistent manner using our radiative transfer model and careful instrument intercalibration. The water vapor from these instruments are used to create a Total Precipitable Water (atmospheric water vapor) product that is best for use in climate study. This 1-degree, monthly gridded product is further described in the document Merged Monthly 1-degree Total Precipitable Water – TPW.”
If you go to the document mentioned in the last sentence you will find more smoking guns.
“a time-latitude plot (a minimum of 10% of latitude cells is required for valid data”
“For this reason, we only excluded data from grid points with very heavy rain, so high that our microwave instrument processing does not derive an accurate vapor value. ”
“There are no data values in regions of land, persistent ice, and coastal areas.”
“and combine TPW values from all instruments using simple averaging.”
“The quality of the vapor product produced is dependent on the number of data that are averaged into each grid cell. Land and ice proximity affects this number. Radiometers suffer from side lobe interference that prevents obtaining vapor values near land. Due to variations in instrument resolution, look angle, geographic conditions and spatial footprints, some pixels have more observations than others. This results in varying numbers of observations for a given grid cell and poorer quality averages near coastlines and along ice edges. We tested a variety of minimum observation requirements. The figure below shows the count of water vapor data in each one degree grid cell during the time 1990 to 2005. As you can see the number of data falling in any given cell is usually much more than 300. It is only along the coastlines and ice that this number drops and poor quality data can enter the data product. We experimented to see how different thresholds affected resulting trends. We found little difference once a minimum threshold of 160 counts per cell was met.”
“This product is constructed by merging all valid TPW (water vapor) data from SSM/I, SSMIS, AMSR-E, WindSat, and AMSR2 instruments.”
So as you can see this is a very imprecise science. I hope models weren’t used to patch up the data. The jury is still out whether we can trust this data. From the graph it seems to have a correlation with the satellite temperature data sets.
If this project turns out to be fairly accurate and if you can then logically assume that the land water vapour is not more important than the oceans in proportion to their sizes (70% oceans- 30% land) then you can argue that evaporation from water in the oceans is the key to temperature changes. The small increases in the amount of CO2 in last 20 years does not correlate to the large swings in H2O vapour See the graph provided by Dan Pangburn
The whole question is how much of the latent heat is released downward upon condensation. If the chart can be considered correct and it is established that temperature follows/correlates well with H2O vapour then obviously some of that latent heat release is causing temperature rise. Dan argues that the H2O vapour increase precedes temperature rise. The alarmists will argue the reverse. I tend to side with us skeptics because the little amount of CO2 increase does not correlate with the huge swings of H2O vapour.
This seems to be another nail in the coffin to AGW. I am wondering when Roger Pielke will switch sides. Do we have to wait until his retirement until we see that happen?
Alan,
Here is a relationship between Equatorial Atmospheric Water Vapour and UAH LT Global Temperature, which typically lags Water Vapour by about 1 month– this may prove helpful.
I first plotted this relationship about 2 years ago, but the idea came from Bill Illis.
Best, Allan
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1665255773551978&set=a.1012901982120697.1073741826.100002027142240&type=3&theater
[excerpt]
UAH Lower Troposphere: Anomalies
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0beta/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0beta5.txt
NOAA Precipitable Water Monolevel +/-20 N, 0-360W
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/cgi-bin/data/timeseries/timeseries1.pl
The correct mechanism is described as follows (approx.):
Equatorial Pacific Sea Surface Temperature up –> Equatorial Atmospheric Water Vapor up 3 months later –> Equatorial Temperature up -> Global Temperature up one month later -> Global Atmospheric dCO2/dt up (contemporaneous with Global Temperature) -> Atmospheric CO2 trends up 9 months later
What drives Equatorial Pacific Sea Surface Temperature? In sub-decadal timeframes, El Nino and La Nina (ENSO); longer term, probably the Integral of Solar Activity.
The base CO2 increase of ~2ppm/year could have many causes, including fossil fuel combustion, deforestation, etc, but it has a minor or insignificant impact on global temperatures.
Alan – this my help re sequence of events: UAH LT Global Temperature typically follows Equatorial Atmospheric Water Vapor by about 1 month.
The correct mechanism is described as follows (approx.):
Equatorial Pacific Sea Surface Temperature up –> EQUATORIAL ATMOSPHERIC WATER VAPOR UP 3 months later –> Equatorial Temperature up -> GLOBAL TEMPERATURE UP ONE MONTH LATER -> Global Atmospheric dCO2/dt up (contemporaneous with Global Temperature) -> Atmospheric CO2 trends up 9 months later
Regards, Allan
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2018/05/05/the-biggest-deception-in-the-human-caused-global-warming-deception/comment-page-1/#comment-2808951
Dr. Tim Ball wrote in this article:
“It is likely that every year annual variance in the amount of water vapour in the atmosphere exceeds the warming effects of human CO2. I can’t prove it, but…”
Hello Tim, (Cc via email)
Here is a relationship between UAH LT Global Temperatures and Equatorial Atmospheric Water Concentrations – this may provide the proof you need.
Best, Allan
UAH Lower Troposphere: Anomalies
http://vortex.nsstc.uah.edu/data/msu/v6.0beta/tlt/uahncdc_lt_6.0beta5.txt
NOAA Precipitable Water Monolevel +/-20 N, 0-360W
http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/psd/cgi-bin/data/timeseries/timeseries1.pl
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1665255773551978&set=a.1012901982120697.1073741826.100002027142240&type=3&theater
The correct mechanism is described as follows (approx.):
Equatorial Pacific Sea Surface Temperature up –> Equatorial Atmospheric Water Vapor up 3 months later –> Equatorial Temperature up -> Global Temperature up one month later -> Global Atmospheric dCO2/dt up (contemporaneous with Global Temperature) -> Atmospheric CO2 trends up 9 months later
What drives Equatorial Pacific Sea Surface Temperature? In sub-decadal timeframes, El Nino and La Nina (ENSO); longer term, probably the Integral of Solar Activity.
The base CO2 increase of ~2ppm/year could have many causes, including fossil fuel combustion, deforestation, etc, but it has a minor or insignificant impact on global temperatures.
Moderator – please delete this duplicate post – thank you.
BECCS. (Biomass energy carbon capture?).
We have been using this for thousands of years. Grow crops, feed it to horses and oxon and extract the energy. Worked well; but not very efficient and quite expensive; but it did have the advantage that the waste product was returned to the earth to enable the crops to continue growing. A factor that BECCS fails to do which is a major disadvantage.
Just wonder how the policy makers will deal with that.
Incidentally the other energy source utilised in days of yore was of course slavery which, again was a biomass source. Still used today albeit under different terminology.
“It won’t be easy. Business-as-usual climate policy has a large and powerful political, economic, and social constituency.”
There’s the rub.
“If the IPCC is unable or unwilling to consider a more expansive climate policy envelope”
May I remind you that “The IPCC’s objectives have nothing to do with climate!”
It is good that some people are starting to reconsider things, but this article is not “Opening Up the Climate Policy Envelope” anything like enough.
Even if one believes that CO2 has a major effect on climate, it is clear that the cost of eliminating man made CO2 is huge and the costs of climate change are small, possibly negative.
So the sensible policy is to reduce our vulnerability to possible harmful effects of climate change and to exploit benefits of climate change. That is a good policy regardless of the causes of climate change and regardless of what the rest of the world does.
Roger,
Great list of questions. But there is an elephant or two in the room.
One elephant is asking why America is declared as intransigent when we appear to be one of the few large CO2 producers to be reducing, not increasing emissions?
Afterall action, not words are required if the Earth is in the balance.
A nother rather large assumption to be scrutinized is whether or not increasing CO2 is in fact a problem that is worth the resources being expended on it.
“But there is an elephant or two in the room.
One elephant is asking why America is declared as intransigent when we appear to be one of the few large CO2 producers to be reducing, not increasing emissions?”
Great question. I wondered that myself.
Because you are not giving billions to corrupt third world dictators, the way Obama promised.
Sorry, but I missed the “edit” time limit.
Please also consider:
Your call to reduce time horizons to years could be a loaded gun in the hand of extremists.
The climate extremists may use your call to apply “realistic time frames” as an excuse to impose ridiculous policies even more quickly. Look at Canada’s latest “climate policy” for an example.
It is clear the main effects of “climate policy” in the West is to raise costs to rate payers and consumers, while supporting an ever growing class of climate parasites who produce nothing but climate hype.
All with no positive impact on climate, resilience, or CO2.
“Climate policy” in the developing world is basically climate imperialism, designed to keep poor people poor by denying them access to cheap and plentiful power. This assures that their mineral resources are cheap for the West and their agriculture does not compete with the West.
Climate Imperialism. Spot on. Obama speech in SA. The world cannot afford Africa to become rich. It will burn up.
Doing nothing seems like the best policy until something actually happens…
Doing nothing while still taking the money is always the best policy, for the money takers.
The analogy with improvements in aircraft design points out the reasons for not changing the current efforts to develop a global climate policy. Addressing the performance of a poorly designed aircraft would be initiated by the immediately observable results from the poor design. It will hurt the designers, the manufacturers and the users of that aircraft. The economic losses suffered would require a new approach.
That is not true of global climate change policy. The pushers of current policy have no incentive to change it. In fact, they have every incentive to stay the course and remain on the gravy train of cash they receive as a result of those policies. Cut off the cash and the charlatans will disappear. Perhaps then real progress, either way, can be made.
A logical, common sense climate policy
based on real science,
(not wild guesses of the future climate,
that have been very wrong
for the past 30 years):
An annual celebration
of the good news from global warming:
(1) Greening of the Earth, and
(2) Warmer nights in the northern half
of the Northern Hemisphere.
The bad news from global warming:
(1) None, and
(2) Having to listen to hysterical leftists,
instead of just enjoying the wonderful climate.
We don’t need a climate policy
because there is no problem to address.
We do need a pollution policy,
because all the manufacturing in Asia
is causing a lot of pollution — real pollution,
not the beneficial CO2 gas
falsely demonized by leftists
as carbon pollution!
I know that criticizing Roger Pielke Jr.,
who seems to be a friend of Mr. Watts,
is not going to win me “like” votes here,
but the climate change scam is too important
for me to worry about a popularity contest:
Roger Pielke Jr. is poor writer,
based on the summary here —
sentences are way too long,
and thoughts are convoluted.
Roger Pielke Jr. is also l-o-s-e-r
because he is debating
CO2 policy ‘solutions”
when there is no CO2 problem
that needs a solution!
Putting more CO2 in the air was,
inadvertently, the best thing
humans have ever done to
improve our planet,
for the same reason that
smart greenhouse owners
enrich their inside air
with carbon dioxide.
This planet can only benefit
from an optimum (higher) CO2 level,
in the 800 to 1,200 ppm range,
based on thousands of experiments,
to accelerate the growth of plants
that humans and animals use for food.
Patrick Moore has done some
excellent writing on the subject.
I’m not sure if Roger Pielke Jr.
is qualified to carry his briefcase.
(PS: I’m in a good mood today,
in case you wondered!)
My climate change blog:
http://www.elOnionBloggle.Blogspot.com
Richard Green Address Pielke’s arguments and logic. Do NOT resort to illogical rhetorical fallacies of attack the man (ad hominem)
Study carefully Pielke’s logical arguments. When recognized and addressed, they transform the discussion into focusing on how to develop inexpensive sustainable energy that is essential to sustain our economies for 1000 years, and to enable developing countries to rise out of poverty.
My name is spelled “Greene”.
My comments are logical.
If I use character attacks, it is because
they are the language of climate change
“debate”, often used by leftists, so are always
acceptable for this subject!
I have a few choice words for your comment,
but I’ll save them for another day.
I criticized Pielke because he fell into
the global warmunist trap — he is discussing
what to do about global warming — far too many
steps up the CO2 assumption ladder.
Pielke’s piece starts with:
“Policy action is required to mitigate
and adapt to human-caused climate change … ”
That statement is WRONG !
There is NO need for action — in fact, the action
so far has been counterproductive, making
fossil fuel energy too expensive.
Climate change in the past few hundred years
has been GOOD NEWS for our planet,
as anyone with common sense
can see — Pielke apparently does not
have common sense,
so on the subject of climate change,
he is yet another lame “lukewarmer”
trying to make everyone happy
on ‘both sides’.
There is no scientific proof CO2 caused any of the
warming since 1950.
If CO2 caused ALL the warming since 1950,
which is just a worst case assumption,
then the TCS is about 1, and CO2 is harmless.
Any claim that CO2 is dangerous is based
on wild guesses of the future climate, and
one CO2 assumption on top of another —
predictions that apparently can never be falsified
even after 30 years of grossly inaccurate
computer game average temperature predictions!
If we skeptics focus on discussions of “policy actions”,
then we have LOST the battle
for real climate science,
and the climate change junk science wins,
and the coming climate change catastrophe
fairy tale stands, and we can all go home
because there is no need for
a CAGW skeptics website anymore
I fear Dr. Pielke fails to recognize that Kyoto, Paris, etc were NOT failures as far as participants were concerned. The whole point of the IPCC is not to solve the supposed human-induce climate change. It is to attend endless rounds of conferences in fancy joints with free shrimp cocktails and A Ceaseless Wind of chatter. It is about feeling important and holier than everyone else. Why should they do anything to end their gravy train?
They failed to achieve the stated objectives.
Please note that the IPCC is a UN agency/bureaucracy. As such, it is dominated by: Socialists, social justice warriors, Third World kleptocrats, and religious nuts. You will see the hands of each group in writing any and all of the various IPCC reports/documents.
When you start asking questions like this, eventually you get to the Big One:
Is the bureaucratic, administrative, regulatory, subsidy model appropriate? Or does it merely empower what Charles Dickens calls Barnacles and Stiltstockings in the various bureaucracies to mess around texting each other?
My prejudice is that the bureaucratic model can win a World War (although it really helps to undo all the New Deal economic policy as you go). But it is pretty useless at everything else, from teaching little children in government child-custodial facilities to old-age entitlements that won’t go broke.
My theory is that the only warrant for government is to identify and fight an existential peril. If you can’t find one you just make it up.
Policy, Policy, Policy… The Free Market is the only thing with the power that could ever solve the decarbonization issue for energy worldwide. But the marketplace is hampered by government regulation and control, so low CO2 energy like nuclear is not attractive to investors even though it is potentially a good solution for these problems. Remove those political barriers to nuclear and natural gas energy and there will be a fast movement away from coal. If government wants to play its part its “policy” should be 1) removing barriers to nuclear and natural gas, 2) support basic research into trying to find technical solutions to the weaknesses in unreliable renewable energy (energy storage). Maybe someone clever will invent a new approach to renewables and if so the marketplace will can with it on its own. All of these things can be done whether or not you are a believer in the AGW theory.
TDBraun
Your proposal is a POLICY – among those that Pielke argues need to be discussed and addressed.
If one truly looks at the data then it has not been “easy to blame the intransigence of the United States for lack of progress.” Since the 1980s, when China changed its attitude towards economic development, they have been the elephant (giant panda) in the room which most of the AGW crowd in the West and associated with the UN-IPCC have basically given a pass if not ignored. In fact that crowd recently makes out that some how China is a world leader in reducing emissions when just the opposite is true. The USA is the only country to have actually reduced CO2 emissions. Now India is trying to get on the same economic path as China. Neither China nor India can reach their economic goals without cheap and plentiful energy, which means fossil fuels. I will bet there are Chinese and Indian leaders that laugh at the west’s seeming obsession with AGW.
What’s the big deal? It they get what they want won’t they just create computer models or adjust data to demonstrate that they are curing the illness of climate change. Who would be the wiser?
The most urgent need for the envelope Pielke Jr. left out. If the situation re climate is a serious problem, then:
1)Why are the scientists who raise the alarm loathe to share with us the data and code to convince us they actually have a case to consider. Damned right we only want it to see if their is something wrong with it!
2) Why can’t they lay the case out for dangerous climate change that the scientifically literate can see. Why wont they debate if the case is so obvious “Trust us” is a joke. Handwaving, obfuscation, ad hominem, destroying data, playing fast and loose with the scientifuc method, abusing statistics, pal review, blocking alternative evaluations from publication… This is enough to reject the thesis and alarm out of hand as a Bertrand Russell orbiting tiny teapot.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell%27s_teapot
I like Roger, but Im frustrated that he bends so far backwards to accommodate such undergraduate work, vipers who have worked harder at deligitimizing him than in doing real science. When you corner them all they have for game is “Tyndall showed CO2 to absorb and re-emit LWIR in the laboratory.” This isnt good enough!