MIT tries to reboot stalled nuclear fusion power development

From MIT and the “always 15 years away” department.

MIT and newly formed company launch novel approach to fusion power – Goal is for research to produce a working pilot plant within 15 years.

Visualization of the proposed SPARC Tokamak experiment. Using high-field magnets built with newly available high-temperature superconductors, this experiment would be the first controlled fusion plasma to produce net energy output. Visualization by Ken Filar, PSFC research affiliate

Progress toward the long-sought dream of fusion power — potentially an inexhaustible and zero-carbon source of energy — could be about to take a dramatic leap forward.

Development of this carbon-free, combustion-free source of energy is now on a faster track toward realization, thanks to a collaboration between MIT and a new private company, Commonwealth Fusion Systems. CFS will join with MIT to carry out rapid, staged research leading to a new generation of fusion experiments and power plants based on advances in high-temperature superconductors — work made possible by decades of federal government funding for basic research.

CFS is announcing today that it has attracted an investment of $50 million in support of this effort from the Italian energy company Eni. In addition, CFS continues to seek the support of additional investors. CFS will fund fusion research at MIT as part of this collaboration, with an ultimate goal of rapidly commercializing fusion energy and establishing a new industry.

“This is an important historical moment: Advances in superconducting magnets have put fusion energy potentially within reach, offering the prospect of a safe, carbon-free energy future,” says MIT President L. Rafael Reif. “As humanity confronts the rising risks of climate disruption, I am thrilled that MIT is joining with industrial allies, both longstanding and new, to run full-speed toward this transformative vision for our shared future on Earth.”

“Everyone agrees on the eventual impact and the commercial potential of fusion power, but then the question is: How do you get there?” adds Commonwealth Fusion Systems CEO Robert Mumgaard SM ’15, PhD ’15. “We get there by leveraging the science that’s already developed, collaborating with the right partners, and tackling the problems step by step.”

MIT Vice President for Research Maria Zuber, who has written an op-ed on the importance of this news that appears in today’s Boston Globe, notes that MIT’s collaboration with CFS required concerted effort among people and offices at MIT that support innovation: “We are grateful for the MIT team that worked tirelessly to form this collaboration. Associate Provost Karen Gleason’s leadership was instrumental — as was the creativity, diligence, and care of the Office of the General Counsel, the Office of Sponsored Programs, the Technology Licensing Office, and the MIT Energy Initiative. A great job by all.”

Superconducting magnets are key

Fusion, the process that powers the sun and stars, involves light elements, such as hydrogen, smashing together to form heavier elements, such as helium — releasing prodigious amounts of energy in the process. This process produces net energy only at extreme temperatures of hundreds of millions of degrees Celsius, too hot for any solid material to withstand. To get around that, fusion researchers use magnetic fields to hold in place the hot plasma — a kind of gaseous soup of subatomic particles — keeping it from coming into contact with any part of the donut-shaped chamber.

The new effort aims to build a compact device capable of generating 100 million watts, or 100 megawatts (MW), of fusion power. This device will, if all goes according to plan, demonstrate key technical milestones needed to ultimately achieve a full-scale prototype of a fusion power plant that could set the world on a path to low-carbon energy. If widely disseminated, such fusion power plants could meet a substantial fraction of the world’s growing energy needs while drastically curbing the greenhouse gas emissions that are causing global climate change.

“Today is a very important day for us,” says Eni CEO Claudio Descalzi. “Thanks to this agreement, Eni takes a significant step forward toward the development of alternative energy sources with an ever-lower environmental impact. Fusion is the true energy source of the future, as it is completely sustainable, does not release emissions or long-term waste, and is potentially inexhaustible. It is a goal that we are increasingly determined to reach quickly.”

CFS will support more than $30 million of MIT research over the next three years through investments by Eni and others. This work will aim to develop the world’s most powerful large-bore superconducting electromagnets — the key component that will enable construction of a much more compact version of a fusion device called a tokamak. The magnets, based on a superconducting material that has only recently become available commercially, will produce a magnetic field four times as strong as that employed in any existing fusion experiment, enabling a more than tenfold increase in the power produced by a tokamak of a given size.

Conceived at PSFC

The project was conceived by researchers from MIT’s Plasma Science and Fusion Center, led by PSFC Director Dennis Whyte, Deputy Director Martin Greenwald, and a team that grew to include representatives from across MIT, involving disciplines from engineering to physics to architecture to economics. The core PSFC team included Mumgaard, Dan Brunner PhD ’13, and Brandon Sorbom PhD ’17 — all now leading CFS — as well as Zach Hartwig PhD ’14, now an assistant professor of nuclear science and engineering at MIT.

Once the superconducting electromagnets are developed by researchers at MIT and CFS — expected to occur within three years — MIT and CFS will design and build a compact and powerful fusion experiment, called SPARC, using those magnets. The experiment will be used for what is expected to be a final round of research enabling design of the world’s first commercial power-producing fusion plants.

SPARC is designed to produce about 100 MW of heat. While it will not turn that heat into electricity, it will produce, in pulses of about 10 seconds, as much power as is used by a small city. That output would be more than twice the power used to heat the plasma, achieving the ultimate technical milestone: positive net energy from fusion.

This demonstration would establish that a new power plant of about twice SPARC’s diameter, capable of producing commercially viable net power output, could go ahead toward final design and construction. Such a plant would become the world’s first true fusion power plant, with a capacity of 200 MW of electricity, comparable to that of most modern commercial electric power plants. At that point, its implementation could proceed rapidly and with little risk, and such power plants could be demonstrated within 15 years, say Whyte, Greenwald, and Hartwig.

Complementary to ITER

The project is expected to complement the research planned for a large international collaboration called ITER, currently under construction as the world’s largest fusion experiment at a site in southern France. If successful, ITER is expected to begin producing fusion energy around 2035.

“Fusion is way too important for only one track,” says Greenwald, who is a senior research scientist at PSFC.

By using magnets made from the newly available superconducting material — a steel tape coated with a compound called yttrium-barium-copper oxide (YBCO) — SPARC is designed to produce a fusion power output about a fifth that of ITER, but in a device that is only about 1/65 the volume, Hartwig says. The ultimate benefit of the YBCO tape, he adds, is that it drastically reduces the cost, timeline, and organizational complexity required to build net fusion energy devices, enabling new players and new approaches to fusion energy at university and private company scale.

The way these high-field magnets slash the size of plants needed to achieve a given level of power has repercussions that reverberate through every aspect of the design. Components that would otherwise be so large that they would have to be manufactured on-site could instead be factory-built and trucked in; ancillary systems for cooling and other functions would all be scaled back proportionately; and the total cost and time for design and construction would be drastically reduced.

“What you’re looking for is power production technologies that are going to play nicely within the mix that’s going to be integrated on the grid in 10 to 20 years,” Hartwig says. “The grid right now is moving away from these two- or three-gigawatt monolithic coal or fission power plants. The range of a large fraction of power production facilities in the U.S. is now is in the 100 to 500 megawatt range. Your technology has to be amenable with what sells to compete robustly in a brutal marketplace.”

Because the magnets are the key technology for the new fusion reactor, and because their development carries the greatest uncertainties, Whyte explains, work on the magnets will be the initial three-year phase of the project — building upon the strong foundation of federally funded research conducted at MIT and elsewhere. Once the magnet technology is proven, the next step of designing the SPARC tokamak is based on a relatively straightforward evolution from existing tokamak experiments, he says.

“By putting the magnet development up front,” says Whyte, the Hitachi America Professor of Engineering and head of MIT’s Department of Nuclear Science and Engineering, “we think that this gives you a really solid answer in three years, and gives you a great amount of confidence moving forward that you’re giving yourself the best possible chance of answering the key question, which is: Can you make net energy from a magnetically confined plasma?”

The research project aims to leverage the scientific knowledge and expertise built up over decades of government-funded research — including MIT’s work, from 1971 to 2016, with its Alcator C-Mod experiment, as well as its predecessors — in combination with the intensity of a well-funded startup company. Whyte, Greenwald, and Hartwig say that this approach could greatly shorten the time to bring fusion technology to the marketplace — while there’s still time for fusion to make a real difference in climate change.

MITEI participation

Commonwealth Fusion Systems is a private company and will join the MIT Energy Initiative(MITEI) as part of a new university-industry partnership built to carry out this plan. The collaboration between MITEI and CFS is expected to bolster MIT research and teaching on the science of fusion, while at the same time building a strong industrial partner that ultimately could be positioned to bring fusion power to real-world use.

“MITEI has created a new membership specifically for energy startups, and CFS is the first company to become a member through this new program,” says MITEI Director Robert Armstrong, the Chevron Professor of Chemical Engineering at MIT. “In addition to providing access to the significant resources and capabilities of the Institute, the membership is designed to expose startups to incumbent energy companies and their vast knowledge of the energy system. It was through their engagement with MITEI that Eni, one of MITEI’s founding members, became aware of SPARC’s tremendous potential for revolutionizing the energy system.”

Energy startups often require significant research funding to further their technology to the point where new clean energy solutions can be brought to market. Traditional forms of early-stage funding are often incompatible with the long lead times and capital intensity that are well-known to energy investors.

“Because of the nature of the conditions required to produce fusion reactions, you have to start at scale,” Greenwald says. “That’s why this kind of academic-industry collaboration was essential to enable the technology to move forward quickly. This is not like three engineers building a new app in a garage.”

Most of the initial round of funding from CFS will support collaborative research and development at MIT to demonstrate the new superconducting magnets.  The team is confident that the magnets can be successfully developed to meet the needs of the task. Still, Greenwald adds, “that doesn’t mean it’s a trivial task,” and it will require substantial work by a large team of researchers. But, he points out, others have built magnets using this material, for other purposes, which had twice the magnetic field strength that will be required for this reactor. Though these high-field magnets were small, they do validate the basic feasibility of the concept.

In addition to its support of CFS, Eni has also announced an agreement with MITEI to fund fusion research projects run out of PSFC’s Laboratory for Innovation in Fusion Technologies. The expected investment in these research projects amounts to about $2 million in the coming years.

“Conservative physics”

SPARC is an evolution of a tokamak design that has been studied and refined for decades. This included work at MIT that began in the 1970s, led by professors Bruno Coppi and Ron Parker, who developed the kind of high-magnetic-field fusion experiments that have been operated at MIT ever since, setting numerous fusion records.

“Our strategy is to use conservative physics, based on decades of work at MIT and elsewhere,” Greenwald says. “If SPARC does achieve its expected performance, my sense is that’s sort of a Kitty Hawk moment for fusion, by robustly demonstrating net power, in a device that scales to a real power plant.”

0 0 votes
Article Rating

Discover more from Watts Up With That?

Subscribe to get the latest posts sent to your email.

192 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Gamecock
March 9, 2018 8:58 am

Come on, Anthony. This major progress. They have gone from 30 years out, to only 15 years out.
From “someday”, to by-and-by.

rocketscientist
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 9:50 am

Incremental “enabling” technology is what this path is called. And it is incremental in short steps, until suddenly a materials breakthrough (or similar) is made. There are many such projects that would be possible if we could find the right material with which to make them. Progress is progress.
Do you have a faster idea?
I suppose the spectators jeered at the tortoise as well…

Leonard Weinstein
Reply to  rocketscientist
March 9, 2018 10:00 am

Look at Brilliant Light Power and Rossi’s e-cat work to see the likely practical future of energy. Hot fusion is no longer in the race.

Javert Chip
Reply to  rocketscientist
March 9, 2018 11:29 am

rocketscientist
I don’t have a faster idea, but I probably have a better “marketing” idea: STOP CLAIMING SUCCESS IS 15 YEARS AWAY. Nothing says incompetence like fifty years of being “15-20 years away”.
This broken record on this obviously incorrect prediction is beginning to look like the same inaccurate expectations management crap around taxpayer-funded AGW stuff.
Even evangelical-but-ignorant believers are beginning to lose faith in never-ending delays in end-of-the-world AGW.

James
Reply to  rocketscientist
March 9, 2018 12:00 pm

The material is an element called Unobtanium!

Reply to  rocketscientist
March 9, 2018 12:32 pm

Do you have a faster idea?
Polywell Fusion.
Toks are a dead end.

Reply to  rocketscientist
March 9, 2018 1:04 pm

Far too much banging on about “carbon-free” going on here. They have just worked out that it is a good way to ensure funding for something they wanted to work on anyway.
Oh, did I mention it’s the key to a “safe future ” for our entire planet. Has to be worth the massive sums we need. PS, it’s carbon free.

Editor
Reply to  rocketscientist
March 9, 2018 1:25 pm

Funny…just heard this joke yesterday:
A nuclear physicist dies and goes to heaven. As he’s escorted through the Pearly Gates, St. Peter informs him that he gets one question to ask God. So, as they approach the divine throne, the man thinks of his perfect question: “God,” he asks, “Will mankind ever achieve fusion power?”
To the surprise of all who attended Him in the heavenly throne room, God paused before replying…
Finally, His divine countenance drooping with resignation, God replied, “Not in my lifetime.”

rip

Reply to  rocketscientist
March 9, 2018 1:43 pm

: Incremental short steps is smart provide you are not traveling down a dead end. The entire concept of a tokomak is a commercial dead end because it precludes a continuous fire. Show me how it can create a steady supply of electricity in any future design.

WXcycles
Reply to  rocketscientist
March 10, 2018 1:00 am

Fusion power?
Already here, solar panels.

schitzree
Reply to  rocketscientist
March 10, 2018 7:42 pm

Am I remembering wrong? I thought the major hurdles in fusion power were how to remove the fusion byproducts so that the burn can be sustained, and how to prevent damage and brittlement from high energy neutrons.
Their big tech in this seams like just a way to shrink down a design that hasn’t worked yet.
~¿~

donb
Reply to  rocketscientist
March 11, 2018 4:35 pm

Still trying to sell the Brooklyn Bridge.

BernardP
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 11:33 am

Yes… Fusion always seem to be right around the second-next corner. I suspect there is something fundamentally wrong with the current approach to fusion, like in cancer research (little progress despite billions $ spent).

Reply to  BernardP
March 9, 2018 12:28 pm

You wouldn’t say that if you were me, completely cured of a cancer that was 80% mortality rate until around 1998.
Now 97% completely curable

Reply to  BernardP
March 10, 2018 9:12 pm

They have made great strides in curing cancer. But, mostly not with the magic bullet they all sought, but with heavy duty metabolic poisons or simply earlier diagnosis and earlier surgery.
It would be like promising fusion energy but building a lot of fission plants instead.

Ron Long
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 4:44 pm

It’s hot fool-were you born on the Sun? Probably shouldn’t say dedicated scientists can’t do something, especially when that something has such great potential. I regularly amaze people with my rare earth magnet, you can’t pull it off anything iron. Keeping the fusion process together seems to be the key and containment magnetic fields appear to offer the best answer. But who know where this ends up? NO, I am not selling uranium future short just yet.

RockribbedTrumpkin
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 9:32 pm

Please send me just 15 more years of funding. After that I can retire

March 9, 2018 8:59 am

Discussed in essay Going Nuclear in ebook Blowing Smoke. A small excerpt quoting Nobel laureate French physicist de Gennes:
“We say that we will put the sun into a box. The idea is pretty. The problem is, we don’t know how to make the box.”
In this case, or even how to make the superduper superconducting electromagnets for the box.

Reply to  ristvan
March 9, 2018 2:31 pm

Putting the sun in a box is not good enough as the sun produces 276 W/m3 (or 1.7 mW/kg) in its core. A human body in rest produces ~1 W/kg.
It is more like putting a super nova in a box.

Reply to  teerhuis
March 9, 2018 2:44 pm

“the sun produces 276 W/m3 (or 1.7 mW/kg) in its core. (emphasis mine)
..
Not true. Your numbers for W/m3 and mW/kg is for the ENTIRE sun, not for it’s “core.” These numbers are calculated using the entire volume and mass of the sun. The vast majority of the volume of the sun is not undergoing fusion, so the W/m3 is different in the “core” versus the surface.

Tom Halla
March 9, 2018 9:04 am

This looks promising, but to repeat the cliche, fusion power has been 15 years away for the past 60 years, or is it 70 years?

noaaprogrammer
Reply to  Tom Halla
March 9, 2018 10:31 am

But just think — the tipping point for global warming is now 15 years off into the future when nuclear fusion will save the day!:
“Whyte, Greenwald, and Hartwig say that this approach could greatly shorten the time to bring fusion technology to the marketplace — while there’s still time for fusion to make a real difference in climate change.”

Gamecock
Reply to  noaaprogrammer
March 9, 2018 11:09 am

Agreed. All renewable energy projects can now be canceled, cos MIT says we’ll have fusion electricity production in 15 years.

FerdinandAkin
Reply to  noaaprogrammer
March 9, 2018 1:00 pm

Mr. noaaprogrammer, I think you have hit upon the answer! When the warmests tell me to cut back on petroleum use, I will tell them it is okay because by the time my gasoline start to ruin the climate fusion power will be here and save us.
Now fire up the old Chevelle SS 396, we’re going for a ride.

Walter Sobchak
Reply to  noaaprogrammer
March 9, 2018 10:29 pm

“All renewable energy projects can now be canceled, cos MIT says we’ll have fusion electricity production in 15 years.”
Right conclusion wrong premise. All “renewable energy” projects can now be cancelled because they will never yield economic or dispatchable energy.

John Beall
Reply to  Walter Sobchak
March 10, 2018 10:55 am

That’s been Renewable Energy’s problem since Day One. It’s to costly and not enough of them to make a Dent in our demand for Electricity!

arthur4563
March 9, 2018 9:04 am

Apparently some nuclear scientists at MIT don’t know what other nuclear scientists are doing at MIT. MIT is involved closelywith the Transatomic Power Company, which is but one of roughly a dozen companies and countries involved in developing molten salt nuclear reactors,which are certainly going to be the next nuclear power technology , one that is cheaper than all other power generation technologies , inherently safe, and has an inexhaustible supply of uranium/Thorium as fuel.

commieBob
Reply to  arthur4563
March 9, 2018 9:16 am

Fusion is way too important for only one track, …

Atomic energy is way too important for only one track. If Thorium was real easy to do commercially, it would already be done. It’s good that there are a number of projects going on.

Loren Wilson
Reply to  commieBob
March 9, 2018 9:52 am

The barrier cost is getting a license from the government for a commercial design. Once government gets serious and develops a licensing procedure for a liquid salt fission reactor, projects will proceed. The technology was demonstrated by the Air Force over 40 years ago.

Reply to  commieBob
March 9, 2018 12:31 pm

Is it good though?
I think not. ANY one of the potential reactors under research could be made to work, and made to work pretty well.
We should rather pick one, and develop it – even if its not the best – to a plug and play mass produced solution.
Oh, and nuclear fusion that produces high energy neutrons will produce nasty radioactive waste

Reply to  commieBob
March 9, 2018 1:52 pm

The problem with the Thorium-salt reactors is that they require continuous reprocessing of the molten, intensely radioactive salt in parallel with the running of the reactor. I’ve read that a continuously running Type 2 LTFR needs 10% of it’s core reprocessed each day to remove reactor poisons and breeder elements. This is the engineering that hasn’t been solved, yet, I think.

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  commieBob
March 9, 2018 4:14 pm

The problem with the Thorium-salt reactors is that they require continuous reprocessing of the molten, intensely radioactive salt in parallel with the running of the reactor. I’ve read that a continuously running Type 2 LTFR needs 10% of it’s core reprocessed each day to remove reactor poisons and breeder elements. This is the engineering that hasn’t been solved, yet, I think.

No they don’t. If you want an efficient neutron economy and the smallest fissile inventory you want to reprocess the fuel, but you can run a single salt MSR with Thorium. Regardless, you can run an MSR with normal LEU fuel today and with its significantly higher burn up we have sufficient fuel to last a long, long time.

Gamecock
Reply to  commieBob
March 9, 2018 4:43 pm

Agreed, Stephen Rasey. Continuous separations is required to remove the byproducts, as they will interfere with moderation of the reactor.

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  commieBob
March 9, 2018 9:06 pm

Agreed, Stephen Rasey. Continuous separations is required to remove the byproducts, as they will interfere with moderation of the reactor.

No, they don’t. They scavenge neutrons which can make the reaction go subcritical. That’s why you need a higher fissile load if you’re going to run a single salt (or 1.5 salt) design.The other by products like Xe can be sparged off without any chemical processing.

Reply to  arthur4563
March 9, 2018 9:30 am

Totally agree arthur4563:
I’ m not against the fusion efforts; but meanwhile let’s get pragmatic and get on with the molten salt reactor technology. Seems there is good potential there.
I am no expert but Robert Hargreaves book: “ Thorium energy cheaper than coal” is a fascinating read.

Reply to  cognog2
March 9, 2018 12:38 pm

Lets get on with even a simple Boiling water uranium reactor!
All this emphasis on high tech is just mental masturbation. WE want a reliable safe pot of water boiled by lots of uranium rods, hooked up to a standard turbine, cheap cheerful and safe enough.
.
We dont want a Ferrari, we wand a Ford Mondeo*
* a UK car that outsold millions and was so boring it even led to the phrase ‘Mondeo Man’ the average dull stupid home counties voter. The North American models were marketed as the Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique until 2000, and as the Ford Fusion from 2013 onwards. It is one of the most boring cars I have ever driven, utterly soulless, but it had one of the lowest lifetime costs and was the fleet car of choice for years.

Reply to  Leo Smith
March 9, 2018 1:41 pm

I get your point Leo; but I don’t think Molton Salt Reactors are particularly boring.
What is boring are all those people who freak out the moment the word nuclear is mentioned.
Never had a Mondeo. Got a boring old 1987 Merc. now. Boringly reliable! Barely run in. Only got 165,000 on the clock. My last Merc clocked 859,000 before the rust got it.
I now fancy a mini molten salt car built like a tank. — 0 to 60 in 4 seconds.
Cheers!!

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  cognog2
March 9, 2018 4:03 pm

No we don’t. Solid core reactors using water as a moderator and coolant are a terrible design. They are guaranteed to be inefficient and expensive because 1) you have to have a massive containment vessel to hold all of that water that wants to flash to steam, and 2) solid fuel rods deform into uselessness well before you even get to 10% burnup. The latter means that you either have to reprocess the fuel (expensive), or throw it away (also expensive). How about we don’t limit ourselves to the steam age?

Gamecock
Reply to  arthur4563
March 9, 2018 11:11 am

“which is but one of roughly a dozen companies and countries involved in developing molten salt nuclear reactors,which are certainly going to be the next nuclear power technology”
Another one that has been just around the corner for 60 years.

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 4:04 pm

And one that has actually produced power on a shoestring budget. Convenient amnesia?

Gamecock
Reply to  arthur4563
March 10, 2018 6:18 am

“They scavenge neutrons which can make the reaction go subcritical.”
Sounds like interference with moderation to me.

vboring
March 9, 2018 9:06 am

Tri Alpha Energy hopes to be commercial by then:
https://tae.com/
Traditional nuclear energy is extremely cost competitive in countries with rational safety regulations.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2015/10/22/china-shows-how-to-build-nuclear-reactors-fast-and-cheap/#789a37495484

BCBILL
Reply to  vboring
March 9, 2018 11:17 am

I am pulling for General Fusion. I can almost understand their technology. http://generalfusion.com/

Reply to  vboring
March 9, 2018 12:43 pm

Absolutely
Buy Wade Allison’s ‘ ‘Radiation and Reason’ and read the Late Prof Cohen’s online e-book..

http://www.phyast.pitt.edu/~blc/book/
Radiation is nowhere NEAR as deadly as is made out by people…selling wind turbines…

dan no longer in CA
Reply to  vboring
March 9, 2018 1:21 pm

Tri Alpha has another advantage. That is, no neutrons as the reaction yields 3 alpha particles as an ash, hence the name.

dan no longer in CA
Reply to  dan no longer in CA
March 9, 2018 1:36 pm

Plus let’s not forget other small scale fusion efforts, such as Helion http://www.helionenergy.com/ and Tokamak Energy. https://www.tokamakenergy.co.uk/st40/ Both are much smaller than the “official” ITER multi-government project.

Reply to  dan no longer in CA
March 9, 2018 6:02 pm

Fusion can never work unless there is no neutron radiation as a by-product.
Only a big Sun or a black hole or a neutron star is capable of holding in the neutron radiation that results from most fusion energy proposals. Basically, the reactor container will disintegrate within 20 seconds unless there is no neutron radiation by-product. Unfortunately, the scientists involved in all these proposals keep this problem out of the public information sources. Their proposals will NEVER work but they will suck up a LOT of money and salaries in the multi-decades it will take before they admit this problem exists.

Akatsukami
Reply to  dan no longer in CA
March 10, 2018 10:23 am

B11+p (which is what Tri Alpha claims to be experimenting with) is a stone bitch to ignite. if we can’t get a self-sustaining D+T plasma going….

TRM
March 9, 2018 9:15 am

We should have a poll. Which gets electricity to the grid first and best (In Your Humble Opinion) LFTR or Fusion?
I’ll cast my vote for the first one.

Gamecock
Reply to  TRM
March 9, 2018 11:12 am

LFTR is nonsense.

D B H
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 11:34 am

And why would you suggest that it is nonsense?

Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 12:57 pm

I half agree. Its a viable technology – no doubt about it, but its not a a magic bullet, and it doesn’t solve all the problems. It introduces new problems instead.
And really there is nothing wrong with existing technology.
I actually do not care what reactor technology gets built as long as its cheap enough and safe enough, and any modern reactor is all of that.
Or would be if it didn’t have to meet such ridiculous regulatory standards.

Gamecock
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 2:57 pm

“And why would you suggest that it is nonsense?”
Thorium is fertile – not fissile. A thorium reactor is preposterous. Ignorant.
Thorium, if bred in a uranium or plutonium reactor, solves no problem, nor provides any economic benefit. It is a dream that justifiably died in the 1960s.

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 4:07 pm

“And why would you suggest that it is nonsense?”
Thorium is fertile – not fissile. A thorium reactor is preposterous. Ignorant.

Well there certainly is a lot of ignorance here. There’s no reason you can’t run a Thorium converter, but more importantly you can burn good old 235U and 239Pu in an MSR just fine. And we have plentiful supplies for at least decades if not centuries before we need to explore breeding.

Gamecock
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 4:36 pm

MSR and thorium are two different subjects.

Tsk Tsk
Reply to  Gamecock
March 9, 2018 9:01 pm

“MSR and thorium are two different subjects.”
You seem to understand neither. There’s nothing “preposterous” about breeders as a concept. Solid fuel Thorium is probably unattractive, but solid fuel anything is already disadvantaged.

Gamecock
Reply to  Gamecock
March 10, 2018 6:29 am

‘You seem to understand neither. There’s nothing “preposterous” about breeders as a concept.’
Splain why it was abandoned 40 years ago?
I’ll save you the trouble. The breeding concept was born of the expense and rarity of uranium. By the 1970s, it was found that uranium was neither rare nor expensive. Thorium solves no problem.
‘Solid fuel Thorium is probably unattractive, but solid fuel anything is already disadvantaged.’
‘Solid fuel Thorium’ is nonsense. See above.
Centuries out, solid target thorium breeding may come into it’s own, but it is just a footnote in the history of nuclear physics.
The use of solid fuel is ubiquitous. Your declaration is false on its face. When the molten salt reactor business is going, and we’ve been waiting for 50 years, get back to us. Until then, you are making assertions on the come.

D B H
Reply to  TRM
March 9, 2018 11:33 am

Yep – count me in on LFTR too.

March 9, 2018 9:17 am

“… drastically curbing the greenhouse gas emissions that are causing global climate change.”
It’s an embarrassment to science that this kind of statement would come from someone associated with MIT.
The motivation should not be climate change, but that we will eventually run out of oil.

Patrick B
Reply to  co2isnotevil
March 9, 2018 9:28 am

You are correct it is embarrassing that a university like MIT would make a statement like that.
At the same time, it is embarrassing that someone who thinks they understand energy production would (1) think oil has much of anything to do with the production of electricity (which is what fusion would be used to produce) and (2) think we are going to run out of oil in any time horizon that should be a concern for people living today.

Reply to  Patrick B
March 9, 2018 11:35 am

Patrick,
Fossil fuels are an important source of energy of which electricity is the most useful form, especially going forward. Transportation is the largest user of fossil fuels today, but this will necessarily change in the future.
While we will not run out of fossil fuels any time soon, at the rate fusion is progressing, it may not be feasible until we are close to running out, moreover; we will need
what oil is left as the raw materials for other products, for example, plastics and more industrial chemicals than you can think of.
Just because something will not occur within your lifetime doesn’t mean it’s not important. My primary point was that running out of fossil fuels has a 100% chance of eventually occurring, while catastrophic climate change arising from CO2 emissions has a 0% chance of ever occurring.

MarkW
Reply to  co2isnotevil
March 9, 2018 11:12 am

We got several hundred years of oil, several thousand years of coal, and several hundred thousand years of nuclear.
I’m not going to panic any time soon.

Reply to  MarkW
March 9, 2018 12:59 pm

You are out by an order of magnitude
We have several decades of oil and gas, a hundred years or so of coal and less than 10,000 years of fertile and fissile nuclear material.

MarkW
Reply to  MarkW
March 9, 2018 2:14 pm

I disagree, my numbers are accurate and if anything I’m being conservative.

Alan Tomalty
Reply to  co2isnotevil
March 9, 2018 11:24 am

We will never run out of oil

Reply to  Alan Tomalty
March 9, 2018 11:43 am

Alan,
We will not run out of oil in your lifetime, but that certainly doesn’t mean running out won’t be important to the future. Fusion is the only viable, long term replacement for fossil fuel generated energy, and will be needed unless you think humanity will become extinct in the next century or so. Again, my point was that obsessing about CO2 emissions is the wrong rationalization for developing fusion.

Carbon Bigfoot
Reply to  Alan Tomalty
March 9, 2018 4:00 pm

Alan are a man of exceptional knowledge.

Third Party
March 9, 2018 9:17 am

Just give me my Mr. Fusion.
I’ve waited long enough.
Unmetered electricity was promised in the 50s.

Earthling2
Reply to  Third Party
March 9, 2018 9:38 am

And so was my flying car…

Reply to  Third Party
March 9, 2018 11:40 am

It’s also likely that, about 15 to 20 years from now, we will have a prototype time travel chamber that will allow us to acquire a Mr. Fusion from the future, and bring it back to the (then) present.
So, it doesn’t really matter if the projected MIT time frame works out.

Lance Wallace
Reply to  DonM
March 9, 2018 12:17 pm

But if they bring it back to the (then) present, there would seem to be no problem with bringing it back to our (now) present.

Reply to  DonM
March 9, 2018 4:38 pm

… regardless … it’s still 15 years out.
(when my daughter was about 3 or 4 she asked why, when driving, we never got TO the fog. It always seemed to be that same distance away. “Why do we never get to it?” It is very difficult to explain optics to a 4 year old.)
You need to find a certified Time Lord to explain that part of it to you.

March 9, 2018 9:18 am

“As humanity confronts the rising risks of climate disruption”
They just had to get in the obligatory mention of climate change. UGH!!

March 9, 2018 9:24 am

Heartening to see that they decided to expand collaboration in MIT to include engineers and physicists. I guess it was these two troublemaker disciplines that queered up early work. Nowadays in post normal times they tend to bring in social scientists early on and ensure diversity is front and centre. /sarc

Reply to  Gary Pearse
March 9, 2018 9:32 am

I note they waxed strongly on saving the planet from carbonitis. Being duped on this at the outset doesn’t inspire the confidence that they exude about the foregone conclusion of this research. If I put out a press release of this tenor on a mining exploration project (which has a higher likelihood of success) I could find myself in jail for malpractice in my field.

Mike Lewis
March 9, 2018 9:37 am

Cue Jim Nabors singing “Tomorrow Never Comes”.

hunter
March 9, 2018 9:39 am

Hmmmmmm…….
way too much attention on the legal and commercial structures, and way too many assumptions that *this time* the results will result in something different than the >50 years of disappointing results to date. That said, I wish the effort great success.

Stephen Wilde
March 9, 2018 9:43 am

I’ve often wondered how one could harness fusion power by using magnets that required LESS energy than was being generated.
Never had a plausible explanation.

March 9, 2018 9:48 am

The title and lead in of this article is unfair. Note that the MIT’s Alcator C-Mod tokamak fusion project at MIT was ongoing for many years and as it was beginning to achieve experimental success at achieving its scientific goals and then the DOE pulled its funding forcing the Alcator to be shut down. The new concept is based on Dr. Dennis Whyte’s concepts of a compact spherical tokamak reactor not unlike that of the Tokamak Energy Company in the UK. Note that the DOE has cut virtually all fusion related funding in the U.S. except that which is “work in kind” for the ITER project in France and that has been cut in half of last year’s budget. The reason fusion is always 15 years away is that there is still much experimental science to be done which is very expensive and our government is not supporting it and it is too risky for the private sector to support at meaningful levels. A few private companies with truly innovative approaches such as Tri Alpha Energy (TAE) in Southern California and General Fusion in Vancouver, Canada have been successful at raising a few hundred million dollars; in TAE’s case close to $500 million. Having said that, the TAE approach uses a Field Reverse Configuration which has inherent losses and they propose to use an aneutronic fuel cycle of P 11Boron which is roughly 4 orders of magnitude more difficult to “make fuse” due to the cross sectional diameters involved than deuterium – tritium. TAE in all probability is a financial disaster in the making which means another black eye for fusion progress. On the other hand General Fusion is using a deuterium tritium fuel cycle to prove (hopefully) that they can achieve net energy gain controlled fusion and will address aneutronic fuel cycles later. For more on fusion see our fusion website which has become “The world’s most comprehensive Fusion Energy website for fusion & plasma science, research, project management, academic journal articles, videos, fusion politics, news, and advocacy” at: http://fusion4freedom.com

Carbon Bigfoot
Reply to  Tomer D. Tamarkin
March 9, 2018 4:04 pm

A chemical engineer working in his garage will perfect the science in the year 2200.

Tregonsee
March 9, 2018 9:50 am

I did my doctoral thesis in the late 1970s on a fusion-related topic. At the time, fusion was being pushed as the solution to the energy problem: oil boycotts and rising prices. After I had my degree and job safely in hand, I asked a couple of the profs whether they really believed that. Everyone said that was what the DOE told Congress to get funding, and so that is what would be said. One, not my advisor, said that he was trying to do good science without admitting it. I do wonder whether there is at least some of this going on today where CGW is invoked by people who have no excuse not to know better.

Reply to  Tregonsee
March 9, 2018 10:12 am

There are lots of jobs programs that are merely self-licking ice cream cones (SLICC’s). They exist for their own benefit and what they produce is just to continue to justify their own funding. These are things that President Eisenhower warned about. They then get Congressional support for the lucrative jobs and tax funding they bring to Congressional districts.
NASA is probably the biggest offender and has the most of these kinds of SLICC’s, one the bigger of which being a manned Mars mission. (it’ll never happen, yet way too many high paying engineering jobs in ogvernment and industry are at stake if they admit that publicly).
DoE no doubt has many SLICC’s too, with its various fusion projects and its ARPA-E renewables initiatives. The Trump Admin has proposed killing DOE’s ARPA program, but vested interests in Congress will likely mandate its continuation as those a job programs with Congressional support.

Mike Wryley
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
March 9, 2018 9:45 pm

I wonder that some clever entity needs really powerful compact magnets for a totally unrelated purpose and is using fusion as a ruse to get the R&D done at someone else’s expense.
Hot neutrons really don’t care how strong the magnetic field is or whose nucleus they call home.

Earthling2
March 9, 2018 9:59 am

“If widely disseminated, such fusion power plants could meet a substantial fraction of the world’s growing energy needs while drastically curbing the greenhouse gas emissions that are causing global climate change.”
I realize there is a lot of public funding going into all of this, but why do they always have to state that GHG’s are what is causing climate change? It’s a rhetorical question…I already know the answer to this, but it bugs me that this sort of thing is always mentioned as a matter of fact, when we know the (climate) science is definitely not settled 100%.
Makes me wonder if they have drunk that kool-aid about AGW/CC, that they are perhaps also a little bit jaundiced when it comes to what seems like a never ending promise of practical Fusion energy in just 15 more years. Or is this just the never ending ploy to get a never ending stream of grant monies, similar to the climate fr@ud that has been shoved down our throats.
I would have thought 30-40 years ago that Fusion would already been a reality, and we would have been walking on Mars already, had a flying car, or had a phone in my shoe.

Bruce Cobb
Reply to  Earthling2
March 9, 2018 10:32 am

In addition, I am also suspicious whenever the CAGW mantra is trotted out, whether they have, or are intending to factor that into the cost. So, “yeah, it will cost about 1/3 more of coal or NG-fired plants, but see, no carbon!”

Reply to  Earthling2
March 9, 2018 10:49 am

Earthly fusion was achieved in the early 1950’s. The Teller-Ulam fusion design is quite successful in achieving very large quantities of energy release from a Li-6 deuteride fuel source.

Earthling2
Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
March 9, 2018 11:20 am

comment image
It sure was Joel, as in KaBoom…a thermonuclear fusion bomb first detonated on Nov 1st/52. Harnessing that into practical energy, preferably electricity, is another matter. I would have really thought that more progress would have been made by now on the fusion to electron front, but perhaps it is the secrecy involved around the fusion process itself as a closely guarded secret by a handful of nations, including in the USA where it is still Highly Classified. Perhaps that is an impediment to civilian research, because we don’t want that cat out of the bag until we have a politically stable planet.

Reply to  Joel O’Bryan
March 9, 2018 11:49 am

From the article: “…while there’s still time for fusion to make a real difference in climate change.”
8 or 10 of those grouped relatively close together might make a short term real difference in climate change.

icisil
March 9, 2018 10:07 am

I wonder how much money the world has spent on fusion research to date. I have the feeling that “success in 15 years” will be its perpetual state.

Joe Civis
March 9, 2018 10:08 am

hmmmmmmm
“This process produces net energy only at extreme temperatures of hundreds of millions of degrees Celsius, too hot for any solid material to withstand.”
I’m not a Solar expert but “hundreds of millions of degrees Celsius” seems a bit too high….. isn’t the core of the Sun estimated to be around 10-15 million degrees Celsius?
Cheers!
Joe

Myron Mesecke
March 9, 2018 10:09 am

Too lazy to look it up…
Does anyone even know how to design and build a way to transfer the heat from the magnetically held fusion reaction to the water that would be used to make steam?

noaaprogrammer
Reply to  Myron Mesecke
March 9, 2018 10:46 am

I guess it would be via some sort of coolant in a jacket that surrounds the magnets so that the magnets don’t melt.

kaliforniakook
Reply to  noaaprogrammer
March 10, 2018 12:29 pm

I suspect you’re making a joke, or there is something that needs to be explained to me. YCBO functions as a superconductor at temperatures below -180C. Warming that coolant for energy transfer – and then cooling it enough to keep the superconductors working would be a net loss of energy I would think.

Reply to  Myron Mesecke
March 10, 2018 5:01 am

By removing and using the fusion products at that temperature? Injecting the next portion of fuel (which is and must be very very cold, no matter how you prepare it) also seems not to be trivial.

markl
March 9, 2018 10:10 am

So far fusion has been like Socialism. Nothing but failures but this time they’ll get it right. I do wish them luck though.

Reply to  markl
March 9, 2018 10:16 am

I wish them a both a stake through the heart. Pounded in with forceful finality.

rbabcock
March 9, 2018 10:12 am

No where in this article is mentioned the “flux capacitor”, which we all know must be in the mix for this to even have a snowballs chance to succeed. Looks like someone duped someone out of millions of dollars.
Maybe Dr. Emmett Brown will see fit to come back from the future and help the boys and girls at MIT along.

Curious George
Reply to  rbabcock
March 9, 2018 11:13 am

These projects are alternatives to the FC, not applications of it.

Reg Nelson
Reply to  Curious George
March 9, 2018 11:44 am

That’s where the Fetzer Valve comes into play.

D. J. Hawkins
March 9, 2018 10:20 am

It’s been a while since I paid close attention, but I thought the conclusion was that Tokamak-type designs were inherently too “leaky” because of the confinement design and not much could be done about it.

Reply to  D. J. Hawkins
March 9, 2018 11:58 am

Depends. ITER is just a really large tokomak. Theory is that if big enough the plasma wont pinch. Have no idea if theory is correct. Pretty sure the $20 billion and two decades will prove to have been a waste of time and money even if a technical sucess. Too costly, to low an EREI.

John Beall
March 9, 2018 10:27 am

All of this to Boil Water to run a Turbine to make Electricity ! I thought that the Reactor could produce a Magnetic field from within and produce enough EMF that would be self sustained and wouldn’t require Steam to drive the Generator’s . I guess I was wrong!

sarastro92
Reply to  John Beall
March 9, 2018 11:12 am

You were not wrong! Direct electrical generation without turbines is built into the LPPFusion reactor design. There is a short video explaining this on the cover page of LPPFusion… The reactor generates an ion beam that runs through alternating magnetic coils that generate electric current… thus the production of super low-cost electric power.
LPPFusion.com

Curious George
Reply to  sarastro92
March 9, 2018 11:21 am

There are beautiful videos showing how the California Bullet Train seeds prosperity and growth around all stations. We need to connect Madera to Bakersfield real soon.

sarastro92
Reply to  sarastro92
March 9, 2018 4:54 pm

Curious George: You seem to think magnetic induction is a wild hypothesis for generating electric current… please return to Jr High… they’ll explain how it works.

Curious George
Reply to  sarastro92
March 9, 2018 6:18 pm

I don’t want an explanation how it works. I want to see it work.

MarkW
Reply to  sarastro92
March 9, 2018 7:21 pm

Only those with sufficient faith can see that.
Sort of like fairies.

John Beall
Reply to  MarkW
March 9, 2018 7:42 pm

Wow, I didn’t know that! The ones in Europe are going to convert the Heat generated to , You guess it, Make Steam. Thanks for the Information.

sarastro92
Reply to  sarastro92
March 9, 2018 10:44 pm

Curious and MarkW… Having already hit two of three Lawson Criteria for achieving fusion ignition should whet your appetite. If you bother to follow the posted videos, you might understand how close LPPFusion is to hitting the final target of net fusion this year or early next. The barriers to success are not insurmountable. LPPFusion posts regular updates… so join their mailing list of follow yourself. This should satisfy your curiosity with a ringside seat.

March 9, 2018 10:36 am

From the article: “…while there’s still time for fusion to make a real difference in climate change.” Take all the time you want, because it will not make any difference to the climate, as carbon dioxide has little to do with it, and what little it might do can never be untangled from natural trends. Don’t get me wrong. Especially to the extent that private money is involved here, advancement in controllable fusion is welcome, even if only to keep focused on the idea of power plants that run on calm days and in the dark to produce reliable electricity for the good of all.

MikeW
March 9, 2018 10:37 am

Unfortunately, nuclear fusion power will probably never be practical:
https://thebulletin.org/iter-showcase-drawbacks-fusion-energy11512

Hans-Georg
Reply to  MikeW
March 9, 2018 10:54 am

I would not relate my knowledge from such dubious sides:
“The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists Engages Science Leaders, Policy Makers, and the Emerging Technologies.” Doomsday Clock, public-access With a smart, vigorous prose, multimedia presentations, and information graphics, the Bulletin puts issues and fact into context and provides fact-based debates and assessments. For more than 70 years, the Bulletin has bridged the technology divide between scientific research, foreign policy, and public engagement. ”
These are anything but nuclear energy scientists, more alarmists at its best.

ResourceGuy
Reply to  MikeW
March 9, 2018 10:55 am

But the funding line will always be there or the DOE would not have a mission.

1 2 3
Verified by MonsterInsights